To "troll" means to allure, to fish, to entice or to bait.
Internet trolls are people who fish for other people's confidence and, once found, exploit it.
Trolls are various in nature and the type of damage they do ranges greatly, such as:
* Cause irritation to others * Disrupt an email list or online group * Steal money * Obtain credit card details * Build false hopes * Abuse children
There are some illustrations of these on our troll examples page.
What is a troll?
The term "troll" can mean a number of different things, but in essence, a troll is a person who aims to have 'pleasure' at your expense. There are two main types of trolls:
1. people who have the psychological need to feel good by making others feel bad.
This is a sort of "psycho troll", whose deception involves deceiving themselves as well as others. Such people may use their real names on the internet, and they may not even realise that they are "trolling" because it is all subconscious.
2. people who pretend to be someone that they are not - they create personae that you think are real, but they know is fictitious.
There are four types of these trolls:
Playtime Trolls: an individual plays a simple, short game. Such trolls are relatively easy to spot because their attack or provocation is fairly blatant, and the persona is fairly two-dimensional.
Tactical Trolls: This is where the troller takes the game more seriously, creates a credible persona to gain confidence of others, and provokes strife in a subtle and invidious way.
Strategic Trolls: A very serious form of game, involving the production of an overall strategy that can take months or years to develop. It can also involve a number of people acting together in order to invade a list.
Domination Trolls: This is where the trollers' strategy extends to the creation and running of apparently bona-fide mailing lists.
Dealing with Trolls
Here are some ideas to help avoid being deceived by trolls:
* Before you invest your trust in someone - either emotional or financial trust - you should verify their bona fide nature from multiple known, reliable and independent sources.
* ignore postings that you think are suspicious.
* beware of off-list emails that praise and flatter, or seem to evoke sympathy. If you feel yourself beginning to like someone, ask first: how much do I know about them from real life sources?
* if you do get involved with anyone via the internet, seek out verifiable data. Real people will provide information about themselves that is open-ended and leads to a myriad of sources which enable you to verify their genuine status.
* if you are concerned by email list/group postings, write to the listmaster about it.
* listmasters can also make their lists restricted, and conduct a security analysis of each list application before allowing them to subscribe. This is probably easier to do in areas that have professional associations or qualifications.
We have more detailed information on our page on troll tactics. This page provides more information to help you recognise the different types, and tactics you can use to avoid the problems they create.
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Recognising and Dealing with Trolls
This page is a supplement to our main troll article, and provides a detailed analysis of the four different types of trolls, how to spot them, and what to do when you encounter them.
Playtime Trolls
Playtime trolls are relatively easy to spot, but they may not be apparent to the naive user. There isn't a single set of characteristics that applies to playtime trolls, but you can look for some or all of the following signs:
* a lack of buy-in to the list philosophy or values * generally low level of activity, with sudden spurts of interaction - or perhaps a new persona that has strong opinions on controversial subjects * a mixture of friendly posts with a confrontational style of interaction * the use of provocative language and sweeping generalisations about certain topics or categories of people * a lack of in-depth understanding of the topic * a lack of personal information * a lack of a genuinely unique perspective on the topic * a lack of humour * restarting topics that have already been done * use of language that encourages the dialogue to enter topics that are controversial and likely to upset some team members * the use of an attention-seeking gimmick (e.g.: "I was once exploited by an XYZ") * they follow up their own articles if the group doesn't respond to their posts * inconsistencies in the style and nature of the post and any proclaimed information (e.g.: claiming to be a child but writing with an adult style; claiming to be adult, but writing with a childish grammatical construction). * also note that trolls often seem to use free email services (such as hotmail.com) or have email addresses ending in .edu. However, trolls could be virtually anyone, and the email address is no guide as to whether the persona is a bona fide user or not.
To counteract playtime trolls, the best action is to ignore them. If you are convinced they are trolls, then you can advise the list manager. However, if other group members respond to the suspected troll's posts, then you may have to consider some of the responses outlined for tactical or strategic trolls.
Tactical Trolls
Tactical trolls take much more care and effort over the creation of their personae. Such trolls are likely to be seen as long term list members, and have the confidence and trust of the bona fide people on the mailing list. They use many of the techniques listed for Playtime Trolls, but in addition:
* They engage in off list email dialogues to gain the confidence and trust of influential individuals on the list. * They are friendly and humorous in the posts, to put you at ease with their persona. * They have a well-thought-through story such that the persona seems to be very real. They will give apparently personal and intimate information, particularly in off list emails. * They win trust by giving trust. For example, they may hint at something confidential on-list, but then only reveal the full story to someone off-list. By bringing someone into their confidence, they create a feeling of confidence towards them by the individual's concerned. * In off list emails, they win allies and support for some of their views. Their offlist emails are subtly manipulative. * They 'set up' bona fide members to argue with each other. Any view, no matter how outrageous, can be made to sound rational when put in a certain context. By setting different contexts for different people offlist, they create a setting whereby they can raise a topic on-list, in a seemingly innocent manner, and then watch the two list members argue because they have interpreted the topic/message in very different ways. * In off-list emails, they use techniques borrowed from NLP and Speed-Seduction to make people have a great deal of affection for them. This naturally suppresses any suspicion there might be. * They use gimmicks that win sympathy and bring out the 'nurturing parent' in other list members, which also suppresses any feelings of suspicion. E.g.: being blind, handicapped, an orphan, rejected, bullied etc.. * They build up a reasonable knowledge of the topic of the list. This enables them to take part for some time as apparently bona-fide list members. * They use language that is carefully constructed to be subtly invidious. This language is designed to identify two or more separate groups of people, and encourage list members to identify the negative traits of those groups. This creates argument and dissent between list members. Note that subtlety is often their main objective, so this language is difficult to spot. * They don't enter into the argument directly, but facilitate an argument between list members, e.g.: by highlighting points that one list member has made, perhaps in a way that is more confrontational than the original intention. * They sometimes create a fictitious persona supported by a web-site, photographs and apparently personal data. * They may suggest meeting up in real-life, but the meeting doesn't take place.
Many of these behaviours are things that 'real' people would engage in. It is very difficult to distinguish real people from trolls in an internet environment. The only method that can be used to verify the bona fide nature of list members is to investigate their personal information.
Trolls will invent personal information, but when you investigate it you will keep coming to dead ends. For example, if their employer is company "xyz", then you may be able to find a web site at www.xyz.com, but there is no contact information. However, with bona fide people, their personal information will lead to an ever-increasing wealth of data, such as:
* if a real person cites "xyz" as the employer, then the web site will give a phone number; * the company's phone number will be answered by an operator who will be able to tell you the person's extension number; * company xyz may list clients on their web site, whom you can ring up and verify exist; * the person may be a member of professional associations; * you may have met some list members in real life, who will have met other list members and can therefore vouch for them.
The key difference between a troll and a bona fide list member is that when you investigate a troll, their personal data usually leads to dead-ends; when you investigate a bona fide person, their personal data leads to an ever-expanding set of evidence that they are for real. There are some tricks that the tactical trolls may use to deceive you:
* Some trolls will exchange some fictitious data - e.g.: phone numbers, addresses, family details - on the basis that you are not going to actually ring them. * They may have dedicated personal phone lines that they may use for the purpose of taking verification phone calls * They will want to hide other personal information, because it can demonstrate that they are not for real. * Various excuses can be used for not releasing personal information, including privacy.
There are some bona fide people who do not wish to be traced via the internet - but this makes it difficult to distinguish trolls from real people. If in doubt, assume that they are a troll, and don't simply believe the sophisticated lies that trolls use to hide their identity. Also, don't rely solely on your intuition - you need to establish hard data to help find out whether your intuition is for real.
Strategic Trolls
Strategic trolls often operate in groups, rather than alone. They use multiple personalities, each of which uses the techniques outlined in the section on tactical trolls. However, they have an overall strategy for drawing bona fide list members into argument, ultimately causing them to leave, or for the trolls to dominate of the group. In particular:
* They have various phases to their strategy, where each phase aims to achieve different things. * The first phase usually involves establishing multiple personalities who become recognised as integral members of the group - "friendly trolls". Don't be deceived by the title - they appear to be friendly but they have very different hidden motives. Establishing friendly trolls in a group is a process that can take many months or even years. * The second phase involves using new personalities to start divisive threads, in the manner outlined under "Tactical Trolls". In the event that no list members respond to these threads, other phase two trolls will respond to them to keep the debate active. * If existing list members have not yet joined in the arguments, the third phase involves "offensive trolls" attacking their own personae from the first phase. As these trolls will have built up a lot of goodwill in the group, other list members will jump to their defence, and they are therefore drawn in to the argument. * In case other list members don't join in, "defensive trolls" may join in and continue to give air time to the "offensive trolls". The friendly trolls can also incite bona fide list members to join in using offlist emails. * Another phase may involve the friendly trolls starting to retaliate publicly, calling on the support of bona fide list members. * When things start to get out of hand, petrol will be poured on the flames to try and stir things up as much as possible and cause the maximum amount of strife and chaos.
The following is a further extract from the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) of the mailing list that is dedicated to trolling. It will help you to understand what type of person you are up against...
"Anyone can walk into alt.sex and post that pornography should be banned. Anyone can walk into rec.sport.baseball and say "baseball sucks". It takes unbelievable skill and discipline to cause a PROLONGED flame war. That is what we do.
But it can only be done with talent, and numbers to match that talent. We only bring into the fold people who have the knack to use smarts to incite chaos, not stupidity to incite being ignored when people see a post and know what you're up to."
Domination Trolls
Recently, it has become apparent that there are probably trolls also operating as list managers. I am unclear as to the specific motivations for this type of activity, but it may be:
* gratification from dominating the emotional lives of list members * gangland ware - where one group sets up a list and aims to defend it from other trolling groups * a genuine area of interest on behalf of the troll
Nevertheless, the lesson behind this is that you need to get verification data for list managers as well as other list members.
Other general tactics for dealing with trolls
When dealing with suspected trolls, there are various strategies that you can employ.
First of all, remember that just because you suspect that someone is a troll, it doesn't mean that they are a troll; also, just because you suspect someone is genuine, it doesn't mean that they are genuine.
In view of this, the best tactics are:
* ignore postings that you suspect may be from trolls. * don't invest any of your self emotionally until you have verified beyond all doubt that the person you are dealing with is genuine * beware of off list emails that praise and flatter, or seem to evoke sympathy. If you feel yourself beginning to like someone, ask first: how much verifiable data do I have about them? * if you do get involved in anyone, seek out verifiable data. Trolls will provide some data that will lead to dead ends; real people will provide some data that is open-ended and leads to a myriad of sources which enable you to verify their genuine status * if you must respond to a troll posting, don't get involved in the argument; limit it to pointing out that the posting may be considered as trollish, for the benefit of other list members. * Write to the listmaster to highlight what is happening * Write to the postmaster of the troll's domain. Keep it simple, polite and to the point (they are very busy!). Include your evidence (e.g.: offensive emails) and the full email header information, so that the troll can be properly traced. * Listmasters can also make their lists restricted, and conduct a security analysis of each list application before allowing them to subscribe. This is probably easier to do in areas that have professional associations or qualifications.
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Trolls: Some Examples
Here are some examples of trolls and their impact
troll
Fraud
Internet trolling for monetary gain has been around a long time on the internet. The Times (Nov 4th 1998) reported on internet deception:
"According to the Securities Exchange Commission, ... 44 individuals and companies... received in total more than $6.3million and nearly two million shares of cheap insider stock..."
"SEC director of enforcement Richard H Walker... warned investors about operators such as Matthew Bowin, who...entirely over the internet... raised $190,000 from 150 investors and then pocketed the proceeds.... He was convicted of 54 felony counts and sentenced to jail."
Building false hopes
In early 1998 an "announcement" was made, by email distribution, of an advancement in diabetic research:
A new medicine is available which helps bring blood sugar levels under better control.
Readers were referred to a web site where details of the research and the product were available. The information was credibly presented. At the end of the article, readers could obtain a trial bottle of the new medicine, for a reasonable price, and an order form was presented.
Of course, there had been no such break through. The purpose of this scam was to obtain credit card information, which was requested on the order form. The scam relied on diabetics or their families being unfamiliar with the risks of submitting credit card information over the internet, and being willing to give anything a try to improve their lifestyle or that of their diabetic relatives.
Security Details
Another common email scam is designed to get your logon banking details, or access to an account that contains credit card information. The example, below, appears to be a legitimate email from the Halifax, but isn't.
Similar emails may emulate non-financial sources, such as Ebay. If you give your Ebay details away it may be possible for someone to use your credit card details.
Wanton Damage
On Jan 27 1999, BBC Breakfast News made the following report:
"A new kind of warfare is emerging - electronic warfare. A website in Ireland was forced to close down because it came under electronic attack"
The news article continued with a brief dramatic reconstruction showing the Webmaster hurriedly unplugging lots of cables from the back of an internet server. In a brief interview, the Webmaster then said:
"We had no choice - there was nothing we could do. We just had to unplug everything and then see what damage had been done."
The Thrill of the Chase
The following quotation was taken from the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) of a mailing list dedicated to trolling. It shows the mentality of people who just enjoy causing strife:
Although not exactly a FAQ, this file is more of an explanation of why alt.syntax.tactical and the Tactical-List were created. It also lays down the foundation for the structure, strategy and protocol of usenet invasions.
* Invasion *
Each of us brings our own reasons, backgrounds and motivations into this scheme. What is important is that each individual brings into this their own brand of inspired mischief. In someways it is completely innocent.
In someways it is completely destructive.
Anyone can walk into alt.sex and post that pornography should be banned. Anyone can walk into rec.sport.baseball and say "baseball sucks".
It takes unbelievable skill and discipline to cause a PROLONGED flame war.
That is what we do. But it can only be done with talent, and numbers to match that talent. We only bring into the fold people who have the knack to use smarts to incite chaos, not stupidity to incite being ignored when people see a post and know what you're up to.
Conclusion
These are only a small selection of the types of trolling that take place on the internet.
There are more serious forms - such as paedophiles enticing children to meet them - or less serious ones - such as individuals pretending to be someone different to who they really are, in order to impress.
With the latter type, the boundary between trolling and normal behaviour becomes blurred.
[ 02-01-2010, 06:24 AM: Message edited by: AliG ]
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
The object of this page is to bring together a definitive document to cover the utter sadness of the Internet troll. Usually, a troll is nothing more than a passing nuisance, but, as this page will show, they can be a worry (stalkers). However, it is almost invariably an inadequate individual who can be safely ignored.
This page will define the activity, and help with early recognition; once acknowledged, trolls can take up residence, and, like athlete's foot, can be difficult to shift.
And when you've finished here, I recommend this fairly comprehensive guide to managing sad thirteen year olds loose on Mom's computer.
What Is A Troll?
The term derives from "trolling", a style of fishing which involves trailing bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite.
The troll posts a message, often in response to an honest question, that is intended to upset, disrupt or simply insult the group.
Usually, it will fail, as the troll rarely bothers to match the tone or style of the group, and usually its ignorance shows. Why do trolls do it?
I believe that most trolls are sad people, living their lonely lives vicariously through those they see as strong and successful.
Disrupting a stable newsgroup gives the illusion of power, just as for a few, stalking a strong person allows them to think they are strong, too.
For trolls, any response is 'recognition'; they are unable to distinguish between irritation and admiration; their ego grows directly in proportion to the response, regardless of the form or content of that response.
Trolls, rather surprisingly, dispute this, claiming that it's a game or joke; this merely confirms the diagnosis; how sad do you have to be to find such mind-numbingly trivial timewasting to be funny?
Remember that trolls are cowards; they'll usually post just enough to get an argument going, then sit back and count the responses (Yes, that's what they do!).
How can troll posts be recognised?
No Imagination - Most are frighteningly obvious; sexist comments on nurses' groups, blasphemy on religious groups .. I kid you not.
Pedantic in the Extreme - Many trolls' preparation is so thorough, that while they waste time, they appear so ludicrous from the start that they elicit sympathetic mail - the danger is that once the group takes sides, the damage is done.
False Identity - Because they are cowards, trolls virtually never write over their own name, and often reveal their trolliness (and lack of imagination) in the chosen ID. As so many folk these days use false ID, this is not a strong indicator on its own!
Crossposting - Any post that is crossposted to several groups should be viewed as suspicious, particularly if unrelated or of opposing perspective. Why would someone do that?
Off-topic posting - Often genuine errors, but, if from an 'outsider' they deserve matter-of-fact response; if genuine, a brief apposite response is simply netiquette; if it's a troll post, you have denied it its reward.
Repetition of a question or statement is either a troll - or a pedant; either way, treatment as a troll is effective.
Missing The Point - Trolls rarely answer a direct question - they cannot, if asked to justify their twaddle - so they develop a fine line in missing the point.
Thick or Sad - Trolls are usually sad, lonely folk, with few social skills; they rarely make what most people would consider intelligent conversation. However, they frequently have an obsession with their IQ and feel the need to tell everyone. This is so frequent, that it is diagnostic! Somewhere on the web there must be an Intelligence Test for Trolls - rigged to always say "above 150"
Who is at risk?
Any newsgroup, bulletin board, forum or chatroom can attract trolls, but they don't have the brains to attack nuclear physicists, and they are drawn to the quick response where sex, religion and race are found; so politics is easy prey.
One troll famously tried to infiltrate a mensa group; the results read like 100 trolls and one regular, it didn't have a chance - but it was stupid enough to persist until removed.
When Should You Be Concerned?
Usually, no, though fractured funny bones and occasional waves of nausea have been reported.
When a troll become persistent and personal, you may need to consider the possibility that it has fermented into an Internet Stalker - equally pathetic, if not more so - but sometimes requiring weedkiller.
Find Out More Trolls - if they had brains, they just might be dangerous!
'Anyone can speak Troll,' said Fred dismissively, 'all you have to do is point and grunt.' "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire" - J.K. Rowling (2000)
This page is a step by step guide to handling a Troll on Usenet, or any other discussion forum on the Internet.
Or, more precisely, it is a step by step guide to beating a Troll at their own game.
There are too many Trolls that infest Newsgroups and discussion forums - this site gives you some ideas about how to stop their antics permanently.
Before we begin, though, understand this: the best way to deal with a Troll is to ignore them entirely. They are not worth your time, however you may feel about their comments.
However, this site recognises that sometimes you may be unwittingly drawn into a 'conversation' with them. This site will help you to deal with that situation.
"How To Handle A Troll" is updated on a semi-regular basis. You might like to visit this page again to learn new tactics against the Trolls. Similarly, you might like to let your friends know about the site. After you have finished reading, please link to this guide from your website.
Don't let anyone get destroyed by the Trolls!
2. What is a Troll?
The best way to know what a Troll is, is to see what they do. The following link is a humourous look at how to Troll, even encouraging people to take up the habit.
Note how the author himself distinguishes between the Trolls who are just trying to gain attention, or are trying to create havoc.
Yet the author has made a fatal flaw: He fails to see that ALL Trolls crave attention.
That is the sole reason they exist - whether or not they want to feel that they have achieved something (even if it is destruction) or to be recognised for doing something deviant, they want just a little attention in their direction.
Remember: Without attention, Trolls are nothing. They have no audience, and no victim. To read the website, click here. NOTE: The previous website has been removed.
I will try to find a replacement site that demonstrates Troll mentality, but until then, you'll have to make do with my explanations, sorry!
I would encourage you to read the whole page. We'll come back to it later, but it is well worth it anyway.
The mentality of a Troll is obvious - he wants a cheap laugh, and that is all. The offense that may be caused is of no concern to him, as are any other ramifications of his actions.
This Usenet post describes what many people consider to be trolls. There are hundreds of such definitions across the 'net, on various different websites (including this one, and many that are linked on this site).
Ultimately, these many definitions of trolls, all vary slightly, but they all sum up to this:-
Trolls are a nuisance. They purposefully cause annoyance to other users, but their approach can, and does, vary. Some trolls are obvious, some are not.
This website attempts to show you some of the different approaches that trolls take - to keep you, as an Internet user, prepared.
3. Are there different sorts of Trolls?
Yes. There are several types of Trolls, and each is discussed on in more depth later in this site. They are: The Bored's, The Liars, The Confrontationalists and The Controversials
Many Trolls just want to be a nuisance. They're kids who aren't mature enough to have a sensible conversation.
These Trolls fall under The Bored's category, but that does not necessarily mean that all Trolls are children.
Many "mature" adults find enjoyment in Trolling groups.
But there are other trolls who set out to cause havoc. This may include posing as a regular poster in the group (then acting in a way to deflame that person's good name). Or it may be to draw members of the group into an argument.
You can read about that sort of behaviour here. Here, a Troll has managed to draw people into an off-topic discussion that has resulted in an innocent poster losing his ISP access. This is all part of the entertainment for the Troll.
NOTE: The previous website has been removed. I will try to find a replacement site that demonstrates Troll mentality, but until then, you'll have to make do with my explanations, sorry!
4. Why don't people like Trolls? Surely they're just having fun!
Trolls are a nuisance, as they frequently set out to antagonise other people who post in the same forum. For example, take the following post by "Drew" in the Usenet foum alt.tv.star-trek.enterprise
LOW RATINGS NOBODY WATCHES IT LIKE STNG STNG HAVE THE MOST RATINGS.
By the way, you can Click Here to see the message on Google
The above message is a prime example of a Bored Troll post. It is almost unreadable, atrocious grammar, and blatantly insults the show that the newsgroup focuses upon. The Troll is probably a bored teenager.
STNG is supposed to read ST:TNG (or, Star Trek:The Next Generation). The bad spelling is a part of the Troll - attempting to provoke insults from the regulars about his spelling.
Responses such as "You're an idiot. You can't even spell." is what the Troll is hoping for. This way, he can draw you into a prolonged argument about who is the bigger idiot.
Sensible ways to respond (if you have to at all) are discussed below. Trolls who throw insults across the 'net are Confrontationalists and relish seeing any response that indicates the respondee is wound up, or aggravated by their Trolling.
It is fair to assume that people who regularly post to an Enterprise newsgroup will be fans of the show. By saying that the show is not up to par, "Drew" is hoping for other posters to get angry with him, degrading themselves to the mentality of schoolchildren in the process.
Trolls are the Usenet equivalent of the School bully. They don't have to be that big, hard, or clever to throw their weight around - but they do enjoy watching the over reactions of the other posters.
Their messages are poorly laid out - usually on purpose, with bad grammar, spelling, and, more often than not, written entirely in caps.
Some Trolls can be entertaining, but that may not be their intention, nor may that be the intention of any troll.
The Troll Sukami Master infests the newsgroup alt.fan.harry-potter (among others), and after one post titled "Trollness", OnsenMark followed up with... (click here for google)
serj_tankian, you aren't. Hell, even the freakin' *Boinger* is more entertaining than you, and s/he misspells every single word!
But Sukami Master isn't trying to entertain the group. He (it is usually a he) is trying to entertain himself. Perhaps this highlights just how shallow Trolls really are.
So, in response to the question (finally), yes, trolls are just having fun, but at the expense of every one else in the group.
Trolls will happily do the exact opposite of what you want them to do. Sukami Master might be accused of being a "boring" troll, but he gains a reaction every time, because he does not act how people expect a troll to act.
5. How do people respond to Trolls? Usually the most obvious way - they get offended.
"Drew"'s post was not as offensive as many you may have come across. Others pick on individuals - either by name calling, personal insults, or by posing as that person to degrade their character.
Naturally, people don't like this! Who would?
And so, the general result is a range of insults flung across the Internet which does nothing but antagonise the regulars on the board, and entertain the Troll.
6. What is a good way to deal with a Troll?
It depends upon the Troll - If you realise that a Troll is just trying to wind you up, or offend you, Be Calm. Don't rise to them.
Let's take the example of "Drew" again. How would you react? These are three responses to "Drew"...
yeah right.
do you trolls really thing your lies are even SEMI BELIEVEABLE????
enterprise has a guaranteed 6 years. ratings might not be great, but what's UPN going to replace it with? the Hughleys?
This is possibly not the worst way to respond - but it does show the Troll that you have been wound up by their post. There is a certain amount of gratification for him in that!
Quoting your side of the argument to him will not help. Even quoting facts will not help. Across the great Internet divide, facts may as well be nonsense figures.
By "SHOUTING" you are expressing your anger, which to him is humourous. He is safe in his room, and so such agression means nothing to him.
ST:TNG was a first run syndication show. Ratings work different for syndicated shows, than network shows. High ratings for a syndicated show could be considered low for a network show. Believe me when I say that there will be a season 2 of Enterprise, and I imagine a season 7.
Again, quoting facts will do nothing, except possibly force an argument that he will relish in, and, whether or not you win intellectually, he will draw out until you couldn't stand it any longer through mis-quotes (of your posts), lies, and perjorative comments.
Facts and arguments are a waste of time.
You may have a valid point about the low ratings, in comparison to some shows that have had a few more seasons to be developed. ST-TNG definately was a very popular show a few seasons into its run!
However, could you not use capslock all the time, as it can be rather difficult to read, and to some, it can seem like you are shouting.
Start with a compliment! As shown above, accept that they may well have a valid argument, and therefore have a necessary place within the forum.
Keep Calm! Don't let your anger show through.
Compliment them before any criticism - and keep that criticism to a minimum. They don't how to react. Before long, they may find themselves drawn into sensible conversations with the group.
If possible, make any criticism sound like a criticism of yourself, not them. Here, the responder has made the caps problem seem like the readers fault, rather than the posters.
7. What about other types of Trolls?
Some Trolls will pose as regular members of a forum - either by pretending to be someone else, or by joining in some conversations, letting their subversiveness slip through very slowly.
For example, this Troll started by joining in some conversations on the alt.movies.spielberg group. "Togetherinparis" slowly began to lie, about progressively implausible situations, until eventually most regular posters left the group.
Now, several years on, the Troll appears to be the only person left in the group - still proclaiming that he came up with the ideas for Minority Report, The Force (as in Star Wars) and Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
How is the best way to deal with this? It may be difficult to recognise his lies to begin with, and then it is easy to fall into the trap of outright believing him.
As soon as you recognise a Liar, don't try to get him to prove his facts - it's impossible across Usenet, and he knows this.
You may like to try some of the above tactics - try to draw him into a sensible conversation, without dropping to his level.
But, ultimately, there can be only one way to deal with him: Killfile him. Do not let yourself be seduced into having an argument over the validity of his "facts".
Other Trolls will try to draw you into a futile argument by a variety of means, but usually by saying something controversial.
A Trolls message may be as simple as "Prove that God does not exist" that has been crossposted to a range of religious newsgroups.
A Troll is usually idnetifable, as he will often refuse to take a stance on either side - at one time arguing that God exists, and another that He doesn't.
These Trolls are Controversials.
A Trolls message will often be crossposted to one or more newsgroups that have nothing to do with the subject.
By clicking here you can read a Troll thread that spanned for more than four hundred messages - just because it was a controversial subject, and in spite of the fact that the subject had nothing to do with one of the forums in which it was posted.
Trolls revel in their threads lasting such a long time - the longer a thread is, the more legitimate users have been sucked into their little game.
All Trolls, Controversials, Liars, Boreds and Confrontationalists use "Logical Fallacies" - in other words, they lie, change their minds, or otherwise simply claim any perspective other than the concensus.
Logical Fallacies can be a legitimate form of discussion in many instances. But Trolls can use this to their advantage, suggesting that fallacies arise in their "opponents" arguments, where, in truth, those fallacies may, or may not exist.
For example, in the following theoretical trollish encounter, the USER follows some of the above steps when approaching the troll...
In Newsgroup alt.movies.spielberg ... TROLL: SPIELBERG'S FILMS SUC!
USER: Do you think so? I have always felt that the critique of a film-maker lies with their audience. Personally, I quite enjoy Spielbergs films, however it is good to see an opinion other than a positive one addressed.
At this point, it is unlikely that the Troll would respond - he has made his statement, and enough people may have argued against him that he is wrong, causing havoc in the group, that his work has already been done for him. We will presume, however, that the troll wishes to create a prolonged thread about Mr. Spielbergs work.
TROLL: You know that Spielbergs films suck! If one meber of the audience dislikes the film, then it sucks for them. Therefore, Spielbergs films SUCK!
Arguing with the troll will get you nowhere. The counter-argument misses half the point, and they will claim the same of you. What's the best way of dealing with this sort of Troll?
Ignore it. Killfile the thread.
Others will join in, undoubtedly - but the more people ignore it, the better. Even by acknowledging to the Troll that you know what it is ("You are a Troll! Go away!") will boost his ego.
Like the best way of winning a fight, the best way of beating a Troll is to not get involved. That way, you can't get hurt.
So, in brief...
BE CALM - Don't rise to their antagonising attitude.
DON'T LOWER YOURSELF TO THEIR LEVEL - Don't start throwing insults at them. It's what they want.
PAY A COMPLIMENT - It is the last thing they are expecting - and the opposite of what they want.
ENCOURAGE THEM TO JOIN IN - Let them know they have valid points, and make their faults seem like yours.
But, above all else, USE YOUR KILLFILE - It is there for a reason, and it is your most powerful weapon.
8. Will this advice get rid of all Trolls? No. There will always be the persistent ones, and their will always be people in the discussion forum who will inadvertently feed the Trolls ego.
But even for the Trolls that don't completely disappear, your actions will sow the seed of doubt in their minds about their passtimes. For Trolls that just won't go away, there is always the ultimate weed-killer application - The Killfile!
If worse comes to worst, however, don't say anything. Ignore them. Killfile them, and any thread that gets created by the topics they start. Frankly, they are not worth the time of yours that they will waste.
9. Who is NOT a Troll?
Just because someone has said something you happen to not like, it does not mean that they are a Troll. They may just not like you, or you may have a difference of opinion. It happens! Deal with it.
If a post is on-topic, assume that it is not a Troll. The more wayward it gets, the more likely it is to be one.
This takes a little bit of common sense. In uk.media.dvd for example, Off-Topic posts are common, and Trolls are infrequent, partly because of this relaxed attitude.
Everyone posts something they regret later on - so give the poster some leeway. If they really offend you, just Killfile them - I can't say this enough.
Similarly, YOU may be accused of being a Troll. In which case, don't get upset. Find out what it is that people don't like you doing, and stop it. Or move on to another, more accomodating group. There's no real harm done.
About this site
This site is pretty basic, I know. But the advice is solid. Over time, I may improve the look of this site, but frankly, I would prefer to keep it as it stands, as long as it is readable.
My email address isn't published here. I am already susceptible to so much Spam it's unbelievable, and I do not wish to become involved in any flame wars with any trolls.
If you honestly wish to contact me, your wishes will have to go unfulfilled. If necessity arises, I may contact you.
Do I still post on Usenet? Occasionally - but not as much as I used to. I tend to lurk now, reading all your messages instead(!)
But please, if you find this site of use, link to it from your website (please!), add the URL to your signature file for Usenet, add the URL to your signature for your outgoing emails. Spread the word, and defeat the Trolls!
Anti Troll Links
The Links below offer more advice on handling Trolls. Some of them cover the same ground I do, some use a little variation on the terminology that I use, but I'm sure you'll notice a pattern in the data that is presented to you.
By all means, read as much as you want to. If you find a dead link to one of these sites, I'll have it fixed sooner rather than later.
Andrew Heenan's Guide to Flaming - Covers the whole board, including trolls. Very good reference. Anti Troll FAQ Beware The Troll How To Avoid Being Trolled - Newbie Advice How To Handle A Troll - AOL Based Trolls Internet Trolls Netiquette - Touches on Spamming and Flaming, as well as expected behaviour on the net Usenet AD 1540 Troll University - Ironic Troll tutorial... should be very good once completed The Usenet Troll Song
And everyone who uses any form of discussion forums should read this.
Note: I take no responsibility for the language of this website, although I do wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments.
If you are not mature enough to understand the use of profanity in the appropriate context, do not click on the following link.
Welcome To The Internet!
[ 02-01-2010, 06:56 AM: Message edited by: AliG ]
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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sometimesdilly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9982
posted
hi Ali!!
thanks for the great information. when Lou is back, he should definitely post this on top of each forum, or on the forum home page.
dilly
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Hi Dilly!
I didn't even realize that he wasn't around. I guess this may accidentally be a timely post.
I haven't had time or strength to read anything lately, as I've been tied up with my Dad's latest health crisis & he doesn't have a computer.
When I have mustered the strength to take a look at the board, I've see dozens of topics that make me even MORE tired just reading the titles.
I'm feeling quite defeated but I know something's got to give soon. I just hope it's not me.
I'll look forward to Lou's return, maybe then I'll be able to look at the board without getting tired again. I really wish the trolls would find a better place to play with themselves. I'm quite tired of having to watch their stupidity.
I'm off to Dad's again........
Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Yes, I'm around and doing just terrific, for an almost 66 y/o with a 30-35% heart ejection fraction (thanks to a nearly fatal heart attack 12/2006) and now dx w/prostate cancer. Been doing my thing @ LymeNet since 1996 and handling this BB, on and off but mostly on, since 2000 and do ya know the most exciting part of it all ... dealing with the TROLLS.
Now, don't get me wrong, trolls can be a PITA but when identified, easily exterminated ... in some cases how the users react is a bigger problem ... if the users would simply SOB (scroll on by) and just report the troll, the problem quickly becomes a non-problem.
Following is one of the better posts about trolls (and something I posted a while back): Topic: [FREE] Forum Troll
That's right! Get your own forum troll for FREE*!
The forum troll will:
* Complain about your forum on other forums * Repeatedly get banned, but never leave, thanks to his never ending string of dynamic AOL IP's * Manage to misspell even the most pasic of wortds * Post the 'newest' craze or the latest cure he just discovered * Provide you with countless hours of post pruning fun * Steer every topic off-topic * Start flame wars with anyone who dares point out their flawed personlaity * Desperately try to get your attention by calling you "a idot" * Claim he has administrator priviledges, but chooses not to use them * Pretend he is female * Ask everyone to do everything for him * Bump up year-old topics * Start his own web-hosting company with "UNLIMITED BANDWIDTH AND 10GB OF SPACE, FOR ONLY $1 A MONTH!!!!!" * Abuse your members * Make 90% of their posts less then 4 characters * Steal your forum/website design and make a replica of your site * Try to hack you by sending you a sub7 trojan conspicuously named "OPEN_ME.exe" * Reply to his own posts under a different username, congratulating his own greatness and glory * Claim he has hacked your website because he can view your HTML source in notepad * Brag about how is only 14 and can 'program' in HTML * Suggest improvements for your website, including "making everything Flash" * Accidentally post links to porn he has been visiting by accidentally pressing "CTRL-V" before posting * Make you question the quality of his genetic pool
Get yours now (no need to do anything, just setup a successful forum and wait)!
-------------------- Lou B Posts: 2200 | From Mount Hope, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Oct 2000
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sometimesdilly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9982
posted
(Lou-- )
thanks for the laugh....
good to "see" you...
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
ali, good to see you again; thx for copying the troll info here! yes they are a PITA...
"kids" .... gee lou b; thank you; haven't heard that expression said to me in several years now!! lol
ali, praying for you while you are going thru so many things. you're a wonderful daughter taking care of good old Dad!
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sometimesdilly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9982
posted
hi Betty!!
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006
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Cobweb
Unregistered
posted
Troll activity is very draining AliG. You have enough to deal with now-so be assured that LouB and others have your back!
Having a sick family member and no diagnosis is also very draining. Seems like an eternity at the time.
Perhaps this website will support you more now than worrying about trolls .
Take care of you!(where have I heard that before?) Carol
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
THERE'S MY MAN LouB TO THE RESCUE AGAIN!!!!!
I'm SO glad to see you!!! I actually got sad when I thought you weren't around again. I'm glad it was for no reason!! LOL
That's the post I was looking for! I was searching (periodically, when I remembered) for MONTHS (or so it seems). I couldn't remember who posted it or what it said , but I remembered that it was a good one. Thanks for posting it here!
I'm so sorry about your recent Dx , you've been in my thoughts & in my prayers.
I'm glad that your heart attack was only "NEARLY" fatal I can't imagine us Lymenet Loonies trying to get along without our Rock. I wish they could do something about that ejection fraction of yours.
Those danged medical scientists can come up with things like Cialis and Viagra, you think they'd find something for the heart already!!! Maybe we need more WOMEN in medical research, well more "older" women in medical research. They'd likely have some different "priorities".
"66"? Who woulda thunk it? Your posts don't look a day over 50. LOL
Thanks, as always, for being there for us & for keeping up the "good fight". ((((BIG HUGS))))
hugs & prayers, Ali
[ 02. September 2008, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: AliG ]
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
TuTu, Betty, Cobby & Dilly....
I LOVE YOU GUYS!!!!!!
Thanks for always being your wonderful, caring selves. I can't imagine Lymenet without any of you either!!!!!!!!
As bad as my life might seem to get at times, it could certainly be worse without all of my dear Lymenet friends to help carry me through!!!
(((hugs & prayers))), Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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sizzled
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1357
posted
Thanks for the clarification, Lou!
I will not be pulling up posts from a year ago!
I thought I was trying to help a poster's questions but think there may be a better way.
My respect, ~sizzled~
P.S. Thank-you for all you do!
Posts: 4258 | From over there | Registered: Jul 2001
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Up for those asking what "trolls" are...
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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I read your other post and looked around for this one, I noticed it had been up top lately.
I just read it. Once the meaning fully sank in, I thought of the type of people who make fun of others' suffering.
Ridiculous, maybe. I'd say very sad. Pitiful, even.
I saw on my TV channel guide last night a show called "9/11: millionaire widows".
That gives me the same feeling in my stomach.
carly
Posts: 797 | From New York | Registered: Feb 2008
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: Ridiculous!
For those who are wondering why TuTu was saying this, I'd taken on my "pet troll" in another thread (which was deleted by a moderator, who also issued me a warning). The troll then decided to post a taunt in my thread on trolls. Cute, wasn't it?
Many thanks to LouB for investigating the incident & booting the troll, who undoubtedly will change IPs, create new user names & start all over again.
A word of warning to those using social media: Please try to keep this thread on trolls in mind, whether in this forum or elsewhere on the Internet.
I do believe some trolls are sociopathic, thinking of messing with the minds of others & causing emotional distress as some sort of sport.
It's also possible some may justify screwing with people's minds as "scientific research", perhaps using Neurolinguistic Programming & confidence games as tactics for obtaining information and documenting responses to different stressors. They may appeal to ego, vanity and/or sympathy to gain trust.
By my best guess a fictitious MD persona of a different specialty may have been utilized by someone in the Psychiatric field to obtain information from many users (in a social media format) with a strong likelihood of Lyme-related psychiatric illness. It's possible that this person may have been using both male & female personae.
I believe this person is highly intelligent, has advanced training in psychological manipulation and there is good probability they have several accomplices.
I wouldn't rule out government research, though who's gov't & for what purpose I really wouldn't be able to determine. In that line of thinking, if our own gov't, could be seeking to accumulate data to determine scope of problem & best means to deal with it.
Personally, I'd like to believe there's nothing more sinister at play though there may be many other possible explanations.
Internet trolls are out there, so please keep this in mind when tempted to accept information without thorough personal investigation or when it seems someone may be playing your sympathy to obtain information from you or turn you against another.
Please be especially cautious when a direct recommendation for a specific brand of product presents itself with limited verifiable research to support any claims of efficacy. This should always raise a red flag requiring serious consideration.
Regardless of their intentions, troll tactics are deplorable & they should ALL be ashamed of themselves.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Glad you explained about the "ridiculous" statement .. hard to remember after 3 yrs has gone by!
Need to share some info with me thru a PM, Ali??
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Camp Other
Unregistered
posted
AliG, this is... creepy...
"I do believe some trolls are sociopathic, thinking of messing with the minds of others & causing emotional distress as some sort of sport.
It's also possible some may justify screwing with people's minds as "scientific research", perhaps using Neurolinguistic Programming & confidence games as tactics for obtaining information and documenting responses to different stressors. They may appeal to ego, vanity and/or sympathy to gain trust.
By my best guess a fictitious MD persona of a different specialty may have been utilized by someone in the Psychiatric field to obtain information from many users (in a social media format) with a strong likelihood of Lyme-related psychiatric illness. It's possible that this person may have been using both male & female personae.
I believe this person is highly intelligent, has advanced training in psychological manipulation and there is good probability they have several accomplices."
I take it that you're saying you know or suspect someone has already been here for this purpose? Or if by social media, you mean something like Facebook? That's terrible... And really inappropriate, not to mention doesn't give whoever is observing the whole picture, anyway...
I was advised by several friends to be really careful about what to put on Facebook years ago. People were always encouraged to use real names from the start there. As a result, it's become a nest of links and mundane posts in many places as people try to sterilize their posts to be almost content (and controversy) free in case their privacy is violated. After people do enough of this, how much of who they really are is on that screen? We're out in the open, but we're hiding - in case former bosses or exes try to find us.
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Sorry for delayed reply, I think I may have turned off my notifications. The incident wasn't here, it was on an unmoderated social media site.
I wanted others to be aware that there may be trolls elsewhere that will target them, for whatever reasons. I'd also posted a link over there to make a point to the troll(s) & protect others w/Lyme et al.
TuTu: Missed ya Darlin'
[ 10-20-2013, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: AliG ]
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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