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Posted by guiney (Member # 4550) on :
Helloooo, I've been so sick since my last post......The one where I had to go to the ER
right in the middle of it.

It's taken me a long time to recover from it.I'm doing ok right now, but I have my days where I sleep ALL day

and days were I'm just ok. It's been ruff, but not half as bad as bad as the last time I was on the PICC.

My troubles now are severe back pain, nausea, migrains, and my hands are forever numb!!!!

My llmd extended my treatment for well, wee not sure. She finally added B12,B1,B6, and mag. I'm not sure of the dose yet, but should know more by thursday at the latest.

I'm really excited about this! I've heard wonderful things about the B's shots, so I hope it does the same for me!

I'm a little scared about the magnesium..... Anyone out there had all of this at once ? It's going straight into the IV.

Has anyone had herxes from this? Does one herx from the B's? What about the mag.? I've heard that can be pretty intense.

I'd just like to know what to expect...I'm going into this with high expectations which I know I shouldn't.

It's just the fatigue is terrible. I went to bed sat.( well I fell asleep at my comp. desk and didn't wake up till 3:30am!!!!!) So then I went to bed.

I slept until sunday night at 7:30pm!!!!!!!!!! Didn't even do my treatment. I woke up and felt very shaky. I took my oxycontin...

When It kicked in I was alright for about 3 hours then BAMB... MY back started to hurt soooooo bad that it made me nauseaded. Plus I started to have a migrain too.

My hands hurt too, from falling asleep. I ended up taking 2 oxycodones at once (which is a big no no)and a phenergan and a zanax.

After an hour of tears (like a big baby in my moms bed) I went in my own bed and read a book till 3:00am then I was able to go to sleep.

Does this sound formialer to anyone? Does anyone have all this pain even after all the pain meds.?

It seems nothing is working for this horrible back pain!!!!!!!!!!! I feel like there is a knife stuck in my back just digging in and won't stop.

I've heard alot about mag. good and bad. What is the mag supposed to do for me? I'm taking 400mgs. of Doxy thru a PICC since late August.

I was suppposed to stop at the end of Nov. But my llmd said shew definitly wanted me to extend it till who knows when.....

I think I'm to put the B's and the mag. in the bag with the Doxy.( I think so, if you can mix all that together) soon.

I hate having to take oxycontin and oxycodone for this long because I know my body will or probably already has become addicted to it.

Has anyone, or is anyone taking adictive pain meds??? How did you get off of them?

I know I'm jumping the gun here cuz I'm not ready to get off of em yet..I'm just scared about that too.

I'm also jumpoing around here on this post. SORRY

Well, some info on Magnesium and the B's shot would help tremdously... I shouln't say shots because it's going thru the IV, which I would think is better...

Anyhow......Thanks for reading this bouncibg around post




Posted by riversinger (Member # 4851) on :
Hi Jamie!

I haven't had the IV mg and Bs mixed with IV antibiotics yet, but it looks like it is in my near future.

I have had them by IV separate from IV antibiotics. For me they were very good, reducing headache, muscle pain, and heart problems. I never had a negative reaction.

The only problem I had was that my veins are so bad, it would take multiple sticks to find one that worked. I was afraid I was going to end up with too much scarring, so stopped.

Now that it looks like I will have a PICC installed, I am looking forward to adding them back.

I would say, make sure you do the first one in the doctors office, just in case you have a reaction. But I know lots of folks who do them with no problems.

As far as pain meds, my doctor just switched me from Vicodin to Oxycontin. I too have been concerned about addiction, but the pain was so bad, I decided to use it. I figure I'll face withdrawal when things calm down.

Pain by itself has a negative effect on the immune system. I think we just have to weigh everything to see what the costs and benefits are.

My doctor told me I should use Vicodin for break through pain with the oxycontin. So far I haven't had to, but I can still feel pain while on the oxycontin. I imagine there will be times it is necessary. Sounds like we have similar pain, back pain, migraines, and nausea.

I do find that osteopathic manipulation has helped with the pain as well. I was doing pretty good till the cold hit. I am chemically sensitive as well, so closing up the house is setting me back.

Hope you find the new additions help a lot.

Sonoma County Lyme Support
[email protected]

Posted by guiney (Member # 4550) on :
Thank you so much for the info. It does sound like we have the same problems.

You said you were going to get a Picc. What abx are you going to be on? I am so loking forward to the B's and mag.

I hope it does give me a boost.

Well riversinger thanx for the reply



Posted by achey (Member # 6284) on :
The only thing that has truely made a lasting help with muscle spasms and Pain has been the Myers push I get each week from my Naturopath. I'm not sure all that's in it, but definitely Mg, Ca, Vit c and some B's. I'd love to be able to take it at home. Are folks getting home Rx for this?
Posted by riversinger (Member # 4851) on :
Originally posted by guiney:
You said you were going to get a Picc. What abx are you going to be on? I am so loking forward to the B's and mag.

I don't know yet which abx I'll be given. Since it is the holiday, it will take a while to get the PICC in. In the meantime, we are trying to figure out if Ehrlichia is still giving me trouble, or if its Babs.

So, could be Roecphin or Doxy. I'm doing a trial with Artemesinin to see if I get a response.

I'm looking forward to the magnesium, too. I hope it helps for you. Guiney, you might also want to see if you have some physical problem in your back.

I have scoliosis (spinal curve) which is worst right where I get the stabbing pain. Osteopathic treatment and regular yoga really help. The twist in my spine impacts the nerves and causes inflammation, and guess where the Bb loves to hang out?

Some people do well with chiropractic, but I find I do better with osteopathy, as it is VERY gentle.

Achey, I don't know for sure, but I don't see any reason why you couldn't do a Meyer's push at home, as long as you have some kind of line in. You have a port, is that right? I would ask your LLMD. If you are doing your own infusions, you should be able to do the push.

Sonoma County Lyme Support
[email protected]

Posted by Chocolat (Member # 5138) on :
Was on IV x1 a week with C-pretty high-B's-Magnesium-a little calcium -got a B-12 shot in rear after IV was done.

No problems at all. Getting ready to resume them.


Posted by Magdalena (Member # 6096) on :

Good to see that you are back online!

Trusting that you are improving and getting what you need.

I think the IV mag and B's are SUPER and hopefully you will benefit from these as well.

As you may know the HUGE amount of work Marnie did to research the Mg and B's and detail the benefits signifies that this is a very appropriate treatment for Bb since it seems to cause a Mg deficiency.

The pain factor is something that I experienced prior to and off of Doxy and am not sure why you are having such intense pain while on IV Doxy. I DO know that while on Doxy I got lots of lumps and the critters went into cyst form.

Perhaps you can discuss this with your MD.

I know you know not to over-medicate on the oxycontin, xanax and phenergan. That sounds like a potent cocktail...

Glad that you are feeling better.

Peace and Blessings,

Posted by guiney (Member # 4550) on :
Thank you everyone!
Achey-what is a Meyers push?

riversinger- what is Artemesinin? I hpe everthing goes well with the Picc! You know I am starting to wonder if this back pain is more.

I am going to discuss this my doctor. I'd love to go to a chiro. I'm not sure if they take ins. or not. Maybe when the holidays are over I'll call. Tincup gave me a name to call a long time ago

chocolat thanks for the emaila

Magdalena-Yeah I know the meds. I'm on are pretty strong. I'm just used to it. If it wasn't for the terrible pain I seem to get at night I may soon beable to start lowering the dose.

So hopefully soon I can start weaning myself off of some of these meds. I'm waiting to see how I'm going to react to the B'c and the mag.

I also today started this ParGone Advanced
Cleanse System.It's a 2 part cleansing system. It's used to balance Intestinal Microbes & Candida.

My Dad picked it up at a health food store tody.I've never heard of it before but it sounds real good. I just hope I don't herx or anything from it.

My stomache just gets so bloated that I look 4months pregnant all the time. I try to control my cravings for sweets.For the most part I do.

Well, gotta go.....Jamie



Posted by riversinger (Member # 4851) on :
Originally posted by guiney:
what is a Meyers push?

Meyer's push is B vitamins and magnesium given IV. It is given through a large syringe and pushed over a short period of time, rather than dripped from a bag.

riversinger- what is Artemesinin?

Artemesinin is a derivitive of the herb artemesia. It is used to treat Babesia, sometimes alone, and sometimes with the rx meds. It is so effective for malaria that it is now the preferred drug by the World Health Organization.

We are trying it to see if we can get a better idea as to whether I have Babesia.

I am going to discuss this my doctor. I'd love to go to a chiro. I'm not sure if they take ins. or not. Maybe when the holidays are over I'll call. Tincup gave me a name to call a long time ago

Depends on your insurance, whether they will pay for chiropractic. Lots do. My osteopath is also an Internist, so both Medicare and my supplemental pay for her. Just make sure you see somebody well recommeded. You don't want just anybody shoving you around.

Sonoma County Lyme Support
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by riversinger (edited 24 November 2004).]

Posted by guiney (Member # 4550) on :
The Company who brings me my medicine weekly told me that the vitamin B12 cannot be given in the drip with the Doxy.

Only the vitamin B1, B6,and mag.So I have to have the B12 shots 3x's a week

Not happy bout that........




Posted by RECIPEGIRL (Member # 5884) on :
Hey there Guiney,

I know you've been wanting the B12 for a long time. Oh, I'm so glad you're getting it.

You will love your B12 injections. It's a crime for any LD patient to be refused them. LD patients don't absorb B12 lik they're suppose to.

When you get the B12 RX, try to get insulin syringes. The needle for that is so slender & painless. Just insert needle fast for no pain and always inject slowly. Those are the keys. Mine were prescribed for the upper arm.

Don't even worry about the shot. You'll be fine.

My prescription refills are marked: PRN which means as needed forever. Too Cool.

Anyone doing Doxy has my respect!

Hang in there,


Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
Hey hey Little g....

I just now stopped in after several days away.. and this is the first post I saw.

You said...

"I also today started this ParGone Advanced
Cleanse System. It's a 2 part cleansing system. It's used to balance Intestinal Microbes & Candida.

My Dad picked it up at a health food store tody.I've never heard of it before but it sounds real good. I just hope I don't herx or anything from it."

My suggestion.. and I can't tell you what to do.. but I suggest NOT using that for several reasons.

#1. There are MANY different ingredients in it. Right now.. if you were to have an allergic reaction of some sort.. from anything.. you won't know what caused it.

They would have to pull you off EVERYTHING.. including your antibiotics... to be sure you are ok.. and/or put you on steroids.

NOT good. You need the antibiotics MUCH more than that cleanse right now... and the trouble it can cause.

What is happening is too fast a die off for your body to handle right now. Adding more stuff that will cause MORE die-off is NOT what you need. You need TIME for the garbage to clear your system.

We have seen others here who tried to do too much too soon.. add this.. add that.. add this and that.. and insisted (against our advise) that they HAD to do it.. because THEY weren't playing around with Lyme, etc... and THEY were going to beat the odds and get better faster than everyone else.

Unfortunately they went into a tail spin and still have not recovered... after several years. And they had BIG problems along the way.. and still do.

2. This cleanse can cause a bad herx on top of what you are going through right now. I am very afraid you would then be an inpatient at the duck motel we love so well. NOT!

My thought is.. anyone who needs that much pain medicine (the stuff you are on) should have their doses of meds (antibiotics) adjusted... or lowered. It does NOT make sense to punish an already stressed body that is sick with too many antibiotics.. then add supplements, vitamins, etc. etc. and a cleanse too.

This "way down spell" you are having should NOT be happening. This is NOT good for a body to have this bad of a herx... and stay this way. No good comes from it.

You won't get any better any faster than dosing antibiotics at a reasonable rate.

Adding more things will make your situation worse at this point.

But that is MY opinion.

Once you get more stable.. then consider doing that cleanse. And ONLY IF APPROVED FIRST by your doctor.

That particular cleanse is a TUFF one to do if you are healthy! I was also talked into getting it and trying it. I think I will call and speak with the tomorrow. They need to be aware it is too ruff for people who KNOW they have multiple infections... and need to back off trying to sell it.

I did try it too... and it was TOO RUFF for me! BIG TIME!

If you haven't opened it.. I would take it back and get your money back.

Your best bet right now.. in MY opinion.. would be to drink your green tea.. LOTS of water.. and slow down the antibiotics so you don't NEED so much pain medicine.

But again.. that is MY opinion.

I just don't like to see you hurting. NOT AT ALL!

Cause I DO care... you little fruitcake.


Posted by ladyhawk on :
Just started pulsing and doing combo last week (starting low and building up): IV flagyl 10 days on/7 days off, zithro every other day, and next week will start diflucan.

Having some major difficulties but hangin in there.

Best part of all of my meds is that I am getting mg as a flush after my IV and then the B-complex stick in the backside, sometimes a big ouch sometimes a little one, depends on which nurse is giving it that day!

I truly believe that were I not taking the mg and b-complex the trouble I am having now would be minor league comparatively!

Anyway, good luck to you!


Posted by guiney (Member # 4550) on :
Tincup I know you are right about it being to early for the Paragone!!! It was a nice gesture of my dad.

But,I agree to much at one time and we won't know (if I get sck) what precisly it is that is making me sick.

I know we've had this conversation once already

ladyhawk you said "Best part of all of my meds is that I am getting mg as a flush after my IV and then the B-complex stick in the backside, sometimes a big ouch sometimes a little one, depends on which nurse is giving it that day! "

They have me starting it in my bag ! Thay want me to have it dripped for 4-6 hours TWICE a day [image]

Is that common? I really don'tthink I can do this treatment for 8 hours or so a day!!! Just doesn't seem ok.

Has there been in one in my shoes? Plus 3 shots of B 3x's a day........crazy

I'm so afraid of a herx. Hs anyone had hexes from vitamins before????? I know this question IS getting old--sorry![image]

Tincup... you are so sweet........."I just don't like to see you hurting. NOT AT ALL!"
It's conferting to know somene does! Your an angle

Edited: trying to use Emoticons.ARGGGGG I can't and it's drrriving meeeee crazy

[This message has been edited by guiney (edited 27 November 2004).]

[This message has been edited by guiney (edited 27 November 2004).]

Posted by ladyhawk on :
Hi Guiney,

You said: "They have me starting it in my bag ! Thay want me to have it dripped for 4-6 hours TWICE a day.
Is that common? I really don'tthink I can do this treatment for 8 hours or so a day!!! Just doesn't seem ok."

I am the last person to ask if something is common or not. I have read so many different things regarding treatment and each person's body reacts differently. I only know that I am the only person who can know my body. If it makes me feel worse for an extended period of time then I need to rethink what I am doing.

I am not getting mg via drip, it is given to me directly into my IV, after my bag of flagyl is finished, from a large syringe. It is pushed through very slowly, for me when it is pushed too fast the mg rush is too great for my system.

I always get the b in my backside. Right now I have so many holes in me that I sometimes wonder if I will spring a leak!

I agree with tincup regarding adding anything else and going about this slowly, remember the turtle eventually won the race with the hare. The body can only take so much and I believe in the case of this disease slower is better.

I know how it feels to want to conquer this and get on to a better life, but I also know the spirochaetes from hell didn't develop over night and the fact that they are brainless doesn't mean that they are not clever, they want to survive too. I look at this as a battle of will and I am certain my will is greater!

However, ultimately we will be the victors!

Good Luck,

PS. One final note, when I feel like I am at rock bottom I open this forum on my computer and just look at the many folks out there who are not only trying to help themselves but through their hearts trying to help others, it bucks me up tremendously!! Thanks to all of you!!!

Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
Hey Little g...

You know.. I should have ALSO noted exactly what you said... without jumping up and down.

You said..

"It was a nice gesture of my dad."

Yes.. it sure was. He deserves a big hug and thank you!!!

I must have misplaced my manners.. so sorry.

You are fortunate to have him helping you. I can't imagine being a parent of a sick child.. a baby or adult sized one! It HAS to feel so hopeless to not be able to wave a magic wand and make things better.

That store also provides a "hard sell" sometimes... and I have been caught up in the talk and bought things that were not able to be used. And that stuff is EXPENSIVE!


I just saw your other post about giving yourself shots in the butt.

I am at a loss as to how to respond here.

Should I offer to drive about 50 miles to come help you?


Ya know.. it isn't the drive that bothers me so much.

It is the fact that once I get there ...

After all that effort....

I have to see your butt!


OK.. couldn't resist that one! hehehe

Actually.. I hate to admit it.. but I HAVE seen a number of butts in my life time.

If you need help.. just let me know.

Or.. do you have a neighbor or realtive who is a diabetic? Perhaps they would be willing to help you till you get more familiar with this?

Do you know any EMT's or paramedic's on the local ambulance crew? They might be willing to help get you started? Or a local nurse as a neighbor?

Normally those of us in the medical arena will offer to help.

But seriously.. I will be happy to help if needed.

Practicing on an orange.. which someone suggested.. makes it easier. Each time you practice... start from the beginning. Take out all supplies.. set them up.. then REALLY pretend this is a person. Go thru ALL the steps.. and clean up.

Then do it all again. Get the feel of the needles and how fast/slow to push the stuff in.

Often .. folks who work with dogs or animals.. and hunters won't mind helping if you can't find someone else.

Anyone who cleans wild game shouldn't be "weird" about helping do this.

Hope that helps some!

Let me know if you need me. OK?

If you get the choice to sit it out or dance...


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