LymeNet Flash: home hyperbaric chamber-opinions please

This is topic home hyperbaric chamber-opinions please in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by janet thomas (Member # 7122) on :

I'd appreciate input about the usefulness of a home (mild) hyperbaric chamber to treat chronic Lyme and other infections.

Is the only brand available Genox?

Thanks,

Janet

Posted by James H (Member # 6380) on :

Is the object of treating with a hyperbaric chamber simply to force more oxygen into the blood? If so wouldn't just using oxygen also work with less equipment?

I know that hyperbaric treatment is used on soft tissue infections diabetics get due to their impaired circulation. In their case higher oxygen levels in the blood cannot get to the diseased tissue. Lyme doesn't necessarily present that obstacle.

...just a thought that your question brought to my mind.

James

Posted by 24bit (Member # 6531) on :

The pressure increases oxygen in each cell, and when you breath in 100% oxygen or near that under pressure, it really increases in each cell. Lyme can't survive under certain pressure or in the presence of a certain amount of oxygen. So pressure and oxygen are vital.

Posted by aliyalex (Member # 6976) on :

I would be interested in knowing this too.

UP for more input.

Posted by BOEJR (Member # 1734) on :

Hi Janet,

There are a few things that should be done before you start oxygen therapy for lyme. One is that you must rule out and treat Babesia, especially if you plan on using mild hyperbaric oxygen.

Babesia will thrive under in a increased 02 envioroment, however it will not survive at higher pressures. These higher pressures can only be achieved with a true hyperbaric chamber. The recommended is 2.4 ATA

The other is to research HBOT as much as possible, and get the opinion of those who use both mild and standard Hyperbaric 02.

I use HBOT to treat my lyme and have found it to be very effective. Given the fact that the human body can only take but so much Abx. I made the decision to purchase a chamber and use the chamber to treat my husband and myself.

However, there are many who have lyme and treat it with mild hyperbaric and find it effective.

I will give you a few links that you could use to research hyperbarics for yourself. This way you can make your own decision.

As to your question yes, there are quite a few different soft shelled chambers out there. My advise is if you plan on using this therapy (mild Hyperbaric) try to get one that will reach the highest posible pressure, At least 1.5 ATA. You will need to have an oxygen concentrator as well.
http://www.hbot4u.com/lyme.html
http://www.lyme.org/
http://www.wildcondor.com/lymelinks.html
http://www.cincinnatihyperbarics.com/lyme_disease.html
http://www.hbotoday.com/treatment/clinical/researchstudies/
http://www.tamu.edu/univrel/aggiedaily/news/stories/archive/052197-2.html
http://www.hyperbarictherapycenters.com/
(Click under indications)
http://www.hypertc.com/hbofiles/Portable%20Home%20Hyperbaric%20Chambers%20Treat%20Chronic%20Lyme.doc
(regarding mild hyperbaric)
http://lymesupport.com/hbot/hbolinks.htm

Just to mention a few. If you have any questions, feel free to email me and I will try to help you as much as I can.

Best Regards,

Julia

Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :

Julia, you are a really kind person and I am sure providing a great service to the lyme community, but stating as fact that you need to rule out babesia esp. with mild chambers is quite unfortunate and there is no evidence to back it up. You'd have to do in vivo testing, for example you could do it in animals, or humans, where you took a person clearly infected with babesia visible on parasite smears, and test their blood before and after sessions at various pressures.

I recently found out as you know I tested positive for babesia, and hyperbaric in my mild chamber ALWAYS helps. Now that I've had my chamber back for about 2 months or whtaever it's been, I first started out doing it very regularly, like 4 times a week, now I'm down to about 2-3 times a week. The horrible symptoms that had flared up are mostly going away.

So, it does not make my babesia worse, or my lyme, it just make sme feel better. It's not a cure, for me anyway, but I am not convinced that one in vitro study on one strain of babesia that seemed aerobic, says anything about what pushing oxygen into the tissues will do for the body, immune system, and pathogen balance.

In addition, I now speculate that one reason I feel better with my mild chamber is that if I have symptomatic babesia for 5 years now, I have 1-2% of circulating red blood cells messed up by babesia. In malaria the blood cells that are damaged becaues they are carring parasites, are more fragile, including their lipid membranes etc. They obviously will not transport oxygen like a healthy red blood cell. So, getting extra oxygen into all the tissues may indeed help make up for some of the damage done.

People also speculate about bartonella coinfection since it's clealry aerobic. I know you and hubby had both, and yet the hbo is helping you so much, at deeper pressures, which theoretically could stimulate an aerobic bacteria.

But it probably doesn't.

Remember, hyperbaric is IN VIVO, not in vitro.

Posted by brainless (Member # 6771) on :

I believe a higher ATA would be more effective (and expensive). I believe, very strongly, in very aggressive HBOT. For me, it has been the only thing that passed the BBB.

Yeast likes oxygen and my yeast went haywire on HBOT. Clear up the yeast before the O2 and reduce carbs as the carb/O2 combo may result in a thriving yeast situation.

Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :

Yeast/fungi are facultative anaerobes--not that they "like" oxygen but they can switch from anaerobic/glucose metabolism, to aerobic/oxygen. So when you're doing high dose hbo plus antibiotics you're killing tons of anaerobic bacteria while the yeast simply switch hit.

I got much worse candida after 2 mos of high pressure hbo--also because, you get SO hungry after 90 minutes of 2.4 ata you just have to eat carbs before and after or your blood sugar will plummet.

I find even with my mild chamber if I do it too much I get a bit more yeast symptoms.

But I have a horrible problem with yeast that is worse than most.

Posted by WildCondor on :

Mild chambers are not effective in Lyme disease treatment. You should go to a facility that has a monoplace chamber and can go to 2.4 atm for 90 minutes, twice a day. It is important that your entire body is exposed to the HBO. I have done many dives in each of the 3 types of chamber. Mild chambers are just an expensive piece of plastic. Oxybabe and 24 bit and others will of course, disagree with me based on their own opinions, and that's fine. Blood sugar levels can fall, and you should eat protein(not carbs, bad idea) before each dive. Time for another dive!

[This message has been edited by WildCondor (edited 30 August 2005).]

Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :

There's no point in arguing with someone who has gone nuts (WC).

Posted by WildCondor on :

Every beautiful oak tree started out as a couple of nuts who stood their ground! LOL

------------------

WildCondor's Lymelinks

Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :

Except for a period in the beginning, I've worked fulltime throughout this. My hyperbaric treatments, multichamber in a clinic, and mild chamber at home, have been my mainstay.

As I understand it, 24bit also works fulltime and paid for his own hyperbaric out of pocket.

Can you say the same for yourself? Are you on disability and your family bankrolling these hundreds of treatments? If that's still the case, I think you ought to be a lot more humble and quiet about your crazy accusations.

Posted by Aniek (Member # 5374) on :

I am just passing on a story I heard. I personally know very little about this. But I pass it on to make sure you think about your financial capacity before making such large purchase.

I met somebody who had a good friend who took out a second mortgage to purchase a home hyperbaric chamber. This person had been using one at a clinic and she seemed to be improving. After having the chamber, her illness progressed and she had to stop working, couldn't pay the mortgage and lost her house.

I'm not saying it does't work. But I have heard there is a difference between the effectiveness using one at home and in a clinic.

Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :

That's a sad story, although I think she could easily sell her chamber at a modest discount if it was barely used.

Apparently one researcher did a study in mice, built them a little hyperbaric chamber, gave them all lyme, and treated some for 3 months, others not; then all mice untreated for another 3 months.

That was probably at 2.4 ata but I'm not sure. Probably at least 2.0 ata.

The hbo mice had very little spirochetes at 3 mos, but after 3 mos of no hyperbaric, same high numbers.

So, the point is to get the numbers down and keep them down. How do you do this?

I think it also depends on what else you are doing, your strains, your other coinfections and how many they are and how virulent, your immunity etc. It is so individual--you see people on here responding differently to all the drugs, well the same will go with oxygen. In the clinic at Great Barrington where I went, several people did very well, they lived in town and did many months. One I think did 6 months every day, something like that. Another did about 3-4 months every day, then twice a week for another YEAR. That person did no abx at all; the first person did.

Yet the owner of the clinic, her whole family came down with lyme, and she didn't find the hyperbaric did too much for except temporarily feel better for a few hours. EVEN THO she found on microscopic examination it did kill babesia.

It would be really nice if they'd do studies of 1.3, 2.0, and 2.4 ata in animals. It would be indicative of something. But they are unlikely to be doing that.

Also, it would be nice if, in the first study, he'd also had a third group that continued 2x week, or 1x week. To see what is the miminal amount required to keep the ketes down.

In any case, some of us find the mild chambers very helpful. I certainly function much better with mine. When mine was out for a while for repair I definitely got MUCH worse. When I first got it back I did about 4-5x week. Then I'm now back to about 2x a week, unless I feel particularly stressed.

Posted by janet thomas (Member # 7122) on :

Thank you all for your answers.

Couldn't we agree to disagree respectfully.

Janet