My 9 year old, 75 lb border collie/black lab mix has been diagnosed with lyme. He was given a short coarse of antibiotics last year when he first tested positive. Periodically over the last 9 months he has experienced periods of low energy and disorientation. Lately, he has developed severe lethergy, loss of appetite, trouble breathing, inability to handle stairs well, etc. He was quite a jumper and now can't even jump into the car. After a few visits to the vet. Yesterday he sent us home (at our request) with ninety 100mg tablets of doxycycline with the instructions to give him 1 tablet (100mg)/day. After reading several posting where much larger doses were given daily that gaining very positive results and reading the following as one of the 50 questions/answers posted elsewhere on this site. I wonder if my Vet's advise is correct.
How high of a dose of doxycycline or tetracycline is needed for adults to allow the medications to be bactericidal instead of bacteriostatic?
The ?typical? doses (100 mg 2 X day) of Doxycycline that were prescribed by many doctors were not high enough to be considered bacteriostatic for Lyme Disease. To enhance antibiotic action several other agents are now being prescribed along with the antibiotics in order to increase effectiveness. In addition, the recommendations for doxycycline doses now range from 300-600 mg a day. If necessary, doxycycline can be administered by IV to keep blood levels high.
I understand that this was addressing lymes in humans but I think it's still relevent.
So, I'm not sure what the right dose is and for how long?
Posted by lymelady (Member # 6207) on :
I would start him on 200 mgs a day (100 in am and 100 in pm)of doxy and make sure he eats it with food. Also add probiotics to his meals while he is on meds. I did doxy first with my dog which helped him and then waited a bit and did ampicillian, he had a herx when he went on meds the second time.
My guy was a jumper also and now has trouble getting up the stairs. Vets know as little about lyme as the ducks do. I and my holistic doc are treating my labrador.
Good luck Lymelady
Posted by cabopaul (Member # 8487) on :
Thanks for the quick response. Could you recommend some probiotics. How long did you wait before putting him on ampicillian and what do you mean by a herx? Thanks, Paul
Posted by LymeLaura (Member # 6624) on :
My vet treated with 200 mg morning and night (400 mg/day) for 8 weeks for my 83lb. rough coat collie. She relapsed and we have continued to treat her.
My cocker does very well on 100 mg doxy morning and night and we throw in 1/2 bactrim d/s 2 times a day for a month every several months. She had mostly neuro and kidney problems.
(Bactrim is VERY helpful for the people in our family. I understand that it is used to treat malaria and bartonella also, so that may explain why I feel so much better when taking it).
I spoke to a vet who has lyme disease and she recommended, once the pet is feeling well, to keep on 100 mg. doxy each night, five days a week. Says it seems to keep it at bay.
She had been limping (the quack vet near us said she needed knee surgery and gave her Rimadyl). We have since started her on Cosequin DS at the loading doses and the doxy and she is back to normal!
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Ask the vet to give him abx. AND a Benadryl injection. Both Mg and Benadryl are anti-histamines. Vets won't give Mg to dogs...I tried (asked)...You can give childs benadryl (liquid). Dogs don't like it. Vets will tell you the doses.
This combo-> a LOT of hydrogen...raising the pH...more alkaline.
Give your dog a bath in Epsom salts and baking soda...recommended by vets to treat "arthritis" in dogs. We do this with our 11 year old Bichon. Our vet can't believe how healthy he is for his age.
Purina makes a new dog food. Soy based. It is called Beneful Healthy Harvest. Dogs LOVE...and I mean LOVE the one (3 kinds) that is apple flavored.
For many reasons...dog food is "healthier" than ours...this is part of the reason the tests are more accurate for dogs than for humans.
I had a collie ("Tawney") as a child...my heart holds a special place for that breed.
And yes...we give our dog probiotics...he ("Charlie") loves peach yougart (child's small containers) as a treat.
Posted by cabopaul (Member # 8487) on :
Thanks for the reply. Is Cosequin DS, and Bactrim sold over the counter or on-line or do I need to get it from a vet? What are 'loadiing doses' ?
Thanks,
Paul
Posted by karatelady (Member # 7854) on :
I was on a website last night called Lymenews.com and they have a veterinary section on there.
Thought you might want to take a look on it. You do have to sign up.
Sandy
Posted by LymeLaura (Member # 6624) on :
For bactrim you will need a prescription (it's called something else in vet pharmacy language.
The cosequin is sold through most on-line pet supply companies, you don't need a prescription.
When your dog first starts cosequin, you will give 2 to three times the maintenance dose for 4 to 6 weeks. My collie was positively perky after 3 weeks!
All the directions are on the bottle for weights, etc.
It's supposed to be good for human joint pain as well and is sold over the counter in most pharmacies and vitamin shops.
Posted by mlkeen (Member # 1260) on :
We have decided to treat our dalmation long term, like the rest of his life, with abx. Every time we stop the doxy or tetra he relapses in a few weeks. The abx also seems to keep the uric acid issue that dals tend to have under control. Our llmd thinks lyme triggered the uric acid problem. The dog didn't have it until he was 8 years old. He is 11 now.
Anyway our llmd thinks the dog should have the same dose tetra as we do, eventhough he weighs a lot less. Something about keeping the level in the tissue high enough.
I recently gave the dog diflucan for 2 weeks, 50 mg a day. He seemed to move better, but his bladder issues seemed to return, leaking. We stopped the diflucan and started abx again.
The vet has basically approved long term abx for the dog's bladder/uric acid problems. His heart murmur that appeared with lyme is much less.
The dog has no problem drinking water with lemon juice in it. Even the cats are drinking it.
Posted by Soleilpie (Member # 8481) on :
How common is Lyme disease for dogs in Florida? We moved to Florida from Colorado about 2 years ago and I'm starting to wonder if one of my dogs has Lyme. It could simply be arthritis though. He seems to have pain in his back/shoulder area. If I attempt to roll him over too quickly or if the other dog (much smaller) pounces on his back, he yelps. He used to have a high tolerance for pain and so when he started letting out a yelp or whine, I knew he was in a lot of pain. He doesn't appear to be in constant pain, but occasionally he'll start limping while walking and then it'll just go away. He too was a huge jumper but not any more. He's a PON mix and they're known jumpers because they like to look you in the eyes Also, he seems very depressed. He's always been a little moody but it seems like it's worse now. He does have a good appetite, thank God. His problems are probably just age related (He's almost 10), but I can't help but wonder. Any info would be much appreciated.
Posted by lymelady (Member # 6207) on :
[ 26. December 2005, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: lymelady ]
Posted by lymelady (Member # 6207) on :
quote:Originally posted by cabopaul: Thanks for the quick response. Could you recommend some probiotics. How long did you wait before putting him on ampicillian and what do you mean by a herx? Thanks, Paul
I buy big bottles of probiotics and just break open a capsule in his food twice a day, also give him other supplements and milkthistle to help him detox. All can be found at health food stores. A herxheimer reaction is what happens when humans or animals kill lyme spiroketes, the bacteria dies and becomes toxic causing its host to feel pretty horrible. My dog began to limp and was very quiet, not great appetite, but he got over it.
My guy is 12 going on 13 and will be on meds forever to keep lyme at bay. His lyme is as bad as mine and none of his bloodwork showed positive, which to me and my doctor meant he had a serious case. Lymelady
Posted by Lymied (Member # 6704) on :
I have a German Shepherd who was seronegative for all tick borne illnesses but I don't buy the test results for a minute.
She got sick one month before I did and I now know that one of the conditions she was fighting is related to Babesia possibly.
She weighs 80 lbs. and my vet who is tick borne specialist put her on 400 mg a day for two weeks recently.
When I treated her myself last year I had her on 400 mg a day of doxy (200 mg a.m./200 m.g. p.m.)
I always give it with food and give her probiotics as I take them spaced out from her abx's.
There is a site and list you can subscribe to called TICK-L and it is just for dogs and tick borne illness. Be sure you post in plain text to the list or they get a bit miffed.
I sure hope your dog feels better soon. Our Gshep could not jump into our car either for awhile last year...put her on the doxy and she is much better and can jump in now.
I did not try the imidocarb treatments for Babesia.
Take care...
Posted by mlkeen (Member # 1260) on :
Our vet treats first and only bothers to test, for other stuff mostly, if the dogs and horses don't improve on abx.
Posted by lymelady (Member # 6207) on :
quote:Originally posted by mlkeen: Our vet treats first and only bothers to test, for other stuff mostly, if the dogs and horses don't improve on abx.
good vet!!!
Posted by lymelady (Member # 6207) on :
quote:Originally posted by cabopaul: Thanks for the quick response. Could you recommend some probiotics. How long did you wait before putting him on ampicillian and what do you mean by a herx? Thanks, Paul
correction here from lymelady. I meant amoxocillin, so sorry..............
Posted by lymelady (Member # 6207) on :
The dog situation and lyme disease is a serious problem for many of us dog owners and lovers.
The vets know little or nothing about this and think that stupid 2-minute test in the office gives proper results; which is does not!
Newly bitten dogs might show up positive with that test but ones (like my guy) who have had it for a long time, will not show positive in that test or even a more extensive test that I had done (tested antibodies).
My vet and I had an argument; she said he did not have lyme but I had proof that he did because he was responding to doxy so well. Unfortunately, his backend is pretty bad off due to long-term lyme and his age 12, but mostly lyme.
Watch out for traveling pain (limping on front leg, then suddenly limping on back leg or pain in hips.
The vet situation is a disaster for lyme. My holistic doc and I treat him now and he gets blood work done regularly. He will be on antiobiotics for good, changing them every so often to prevent immunity.
The good news is that a dog with lyme gets real special treatment from an owner who has lyme, cuz he/she "gets it". Lymelady
Posted by Corgilla (Member # 4066) on :
Hi,
I have a Keeshond that was rescued from the street. For 3 years, she had all kinds of mental and physical problems. She was constantly urinating and drinking water. We performed every test in the book on her including the tick born disease tests. Everything was fine except some of her liver panels were out of range.
Finally, she became lethargic, went on and off her food and would limp from time to time. She also got a pretty high fever that would not go away. I convinced a vet to treat her long term with antibiotics.
She is 35 lbs and took 1 100mg doxycycline 2 x's a day for 6 months. After 1 month, the fever went away and she was already not needing to urinate as much. She is now 100% normal one year later.
Even though there haven't been any Lyme cases reported in Montana, I can pretty much guarantee that there are tick born diseases in every state. I'm pretty sure that my dog had Bartonella which is associated with the phrase "Fever of unknown origin."
All the TBD's can cause our pets to seem like they have Lyme Disease. The one good thing is that they seem to respond to treatment better and have a better cure rate than we humans do. Maybe that's because their normal body temp is higher than ours.
Take care,
Corgilla
Posted by Lymied (Member # 6704) on :
Hey Joe-Ham -
So you don't think the doctor on Tick-L understands tick borne illness in dogs extensively? Interesting...I haven't posted there more then once since I was reprimanded for not posting in plain text (my email client won't let me). Anyway, I will definitely take into consideration how you feel about the info. handed out there.
I find it interesting to follow though.
You mentioned flagyl in your post. Flagyl was not well tolerated in my G.Shepherd...of course she was on a high dose for two months. Initially she was fine on it but then one morning woke up and looked like she had a stroke.
It was the scariest thing I have ever seen. She could not stand or walk on her own...she had nystagmus (eyes darting), and couldn't even sit upright in the car without falling down...it was horrible.
This was not a herx but a toxicity issue that can occur in dogs. She recovered luckily with in fourty eight hours but I have known of dogs who have not and have had permanent impairment neurologically and liver damage. So you must be careful with it.
Of course you can imagine how excited I was when I finally got my diagnosis two weeks later after this episode my dog had to find out I had lyme and three tick borne coinfections and that I would be taking flagyl once a month Posted by groovy2 (Member # 6304) on :
You can get Doxicycline on line from -1-800- Pet Meds--
No perscription required--
Gluecosimine Sulfate dose help dogs too--has been used horses for many years also--Jay--
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Also, he seems very depressed. He's always been a little moody but it seems like it's worse now. He does have a good appetite, thank God. His problems are probably just age related (He's almost 10), but I can't help but wonder. Any info would be much appreciated.
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