This is topic Can you get better with lower dose abx? in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.


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Posted by vachick (Member # 8353) on :
 
With all of this talk about how abx can cause liver damage, I am scared to death to take these things now!

I have a slightly compromised liver to begin with so I don't know if I should be doing something to make it worse!

My question is can someone get better with a lower dose of Ketek or whatever? My doc wants to up me from 400mg to 800mg and I don't know if I want to do it based on what I am reading.

Would I not get better at all by taking a lower dose or does it just take longer?

If I don't end up having any co-infections could I switch to a more benign abx at that point? I should know in 10 days from IGenex about the co-infections.
 

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Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
 
I think lower dosages of Ketek would work. As long as you are having your liver enzymes checked frequently, I wouldn't worry TOO much.

Most other abx are not as hard on the liver as Ketek. So don't be afraid of ALL abx!

If you have babesia, you could switch to the lovely yellow paint called mepron! Make sure you get treated for babesia if you have ANY of the symptoms! The tests frequently come up negative or borderline and you could still have it. I did.

Let us know about those tests when they come in!
 

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Posted by vachick (Member # 8353) on :
 
Right now i think the doc has me on Ketek because he says it treats Lyme plus the co-infections.

He is probably trying to kill multiple birds with one stone so to speak.

However, he does not know whether I have any co-infections yet. So when we find out, I was wondering if I should go back to something like Biaxin and Omnicef which I was on originally.

But isn't Biaxin also the same type of drug as Ketek?

What abx is NOT as toxic as Ketek or Biaxin?
 

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Posted by flyers999 (Member # 1397) on :
 
Some people think lower doses just wound the ketes, which allows the ketes to become resistant to the abx. Cedax is a cephalosporin antibiotic which I found easy on the body. This probably won't work for co-infections.

I'm sure you are taking Milk Thistle and avoiding over-the-counter stuff and alcohol.
 

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Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
 
If you do a search here,there is alot of information on liver health.

You might want to ask your doctor about adding milk thistle.

Take care
 

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Posted by vachick (Member # 8353) on :
 
Thanks! I have actually been on Milk Thistle for about 18 months due to my prior liver cyst and enlarged heterogeneous liver ultrasound result last April.

This was before Lyme diagnosis. So I was lucky to know about Milk Thistle and have been taking it during my treatment.

I have also added a liver cleansing tea to my nightly regimen.

I was wondering about the low dose abx because I have gastritis and reflux and am also not sure if my system can handle higher doses.

I am a total MESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
 
Hi Yachick :
I also have stomach problems.
My LLD is pulsing me .

I started out doing one week on two days off.
Then to one week on & one week off.
Now my stomach can only take 4 days on & 11 days off.

What has helped is taking two prilosec early in the am on the days on abx.
There has been some caution with this and c-diff.
I only take the prilosec on the 4 days on abx then 11 days off.

I like the pulsing because on the 11 days off it gives my stomach a chance to heal .And allows for my body to detox & get strong agian.

I am not concerned about a relaspe on my days off because BB has a slow-long replication rate.

I was reading in my herb bible that artichoke enhances liver function.
My body craves them.Maybe this is why I eat so many off them?
It comes in a capsule form-500mg daily.
But I think it is better to eat the real thing.

Everyone's different-I have heard some people relaspe after only a few days off.But pulsing is an option if you have stomach & liver issues.You might want to ask your doctor about this?

Take care
 

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Posted by vachick (Member # 8353) on :
 
Dana,
Funny that you mention the pulsing strategy because while I was at lunch, I thought about asking my doc about that kind of thing.

I am wondering which scenario would be better:

1. Take 800mg of Ketek every other day
2. Take 800mg of Ketek for five days then rest for five days
3. Take 400mg of Ketek during the week and take the weekends off

Is it good to rest in between doses to clean out the toxins or does that allow the buggers to generate back to where you started?

Anyone have an opinion or some fact-based information to share on that subject?
 

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Posted by Christine202 (Member # 6158) on :
 
I do not tolerate high dose anythign and never did....

I have gotten 80& better on ALL low dose things.....

Evefytime I would try the "normal" high does I would get aweful and go backwards...

It is definetly possible!
 

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Posted by Chickadee (Member # 8715) on :
 
Hi vachick,

Yes, you can get better on lower dose abx, I am about 80%, but it's different for everyone.

Take care.
 

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Posted by tickedntx (Member # 5660) on :
 
At the risk of being stoned, I would like to suggest that you check out the Marshall Protocol (www.marshallprotocol.com) which uses high doses of Benicar and low doses of antibiotics.

This is a new and controversial protocol which has worked for some, and made others feel worse.
 

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Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
 
I am wondering WHY ANYONE is taking KETEK yet, after the scare message we received from LymeInfo a week or so ago???

They THOUGHT some people DIED FROM KETEK! Didn't you or your docs see this?

Jim
 

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Posted by Jellybelly (Member # 7142) on :
 
Hi Vachick,

I am not the norm, probably because just about evryone else is given massive doses of ABX right off. I was started on the usual high dose of ABX and ended up in the ER with a massive herx.

Since then I have been rather afraid of large doses and start very low and work my way up. I still end up herxing pretty bad even at very, very low doses. I mean like 2 1/2 mgs of Minocycline or 25 mgs of Diflucan. I do these periodically, not even on a regular basis and I am probably at about 85 to 95% remission most of the time. I was very sick, I even looked sick, I was wasting away.

Why I have done so well I don't know for sure, but a couple of things come to mind. The first is that I was on heparin for a little over 3 years to treat hympercoagulation. Possible one of two things may have happened, One is that the heparin may have removed the fibrin coating exposing the pathogens, and needing less ABX to do the job. I guess the word used is it "potentates" the ABX. The other possiblity is that there is a study out of Japan that shows heparin may kill Babesia and maybe Lyme all on it's own.

Another thinig I do is pulse my ABX every other day. There are plenty out ther that believe constant high dose ABX will only serve to drive the Lyme either deeper into the tissues moving away from the ABX, or they could go into a dormant condition where ABX are then rendered harmless to them. They wait until the threat is gone and then return.

By pulsing it might be that we keep them guessing. Hit them with ABX, they take a dive and nothing more happens, so they come back out, and whap! hit them again and repeat. Also there is thought that switching the ABX arouond often is a good idea.

Research on most of this info can be found at this website. http://cure2003.conforums.com/index.cgi

Hope this might help. It might be something to talk with your doc about.
 

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Posted by treepatrol (Member # 4117) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by vachick:
With all of this talk about how abx can cause liver damage, I am scared to death to take these things now!

I have a slightly compromised liver to begin with so I don't know if I should be doing something to make it worse!

My question is can someone get better with a lower dose of Ketek or whatever? My doc wants to up me from 400mg to 800mg and I don't know if I want to do it based on what I am reading.

Would I not get better at all by taking a lower dose or does it just take longer?

If I don't end up having any co-infections could I switch to a more benign abx at that point? I should know in 10 days from IGenex about the co-infections.

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