As i understand it, LD caused by a spirochete, which is a corkscrew shaped bacteria. Again, as i understand it from reading various internet articles, the spirochete infects multiple body organs, including the male reproductive organs. Can LD be spread to others by sexual intercourse? Any real evidence one way or the other?
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
You will get all kinds of opinions on this. BUT the jury really is still out on this. There are NO studies on this to the best of my knowledge, unless one has been done in the past few weeks.
Most doctors say no. A few say they think so. A handful say yes. Take your choice.
IF you use the search option, you will find many threads on this.
Jim Posted by ChrisBtheLymie (Member # 8916) on :
In my opinion, yes it is. I believe some studies have been done on dogs, which showed it is sexually transmitted between dogs. It is a spirochete bacteria like Syphilius - which certainly is sexually transmitted! Also, the spirochetes have been identified in sperm.
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
my son was told by one of the major llmds therewere studies done. they showed it was transmitted male to female but questionable female to male
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
The "official" stand is no...it is NOT sexually transmitted (Harvard).
Bb CAN pass from mother to a child in utero and thru breast milk...that is "official" (Harvard).
That said...
I wouldn't take a chance.
Posted by treepatrol (Member # 4117) on :
I have it wife had it?
They have found it male sperm the spirochete. Mothers milk etc.Also heard it is easier for a man to pass it than a woman? That said Did you know MS {may} be caused by LYME? Clear back in 1954.
96. Steiner G. 1954 Morphology of spirochaeta myelophthora in multiple sclerosis. Journal of Neuropathology, 13:221-29.P Excerpt: What can be said now, with all reservation, is that the spirocheta myelophthora, taken from its morphological appearance in fixed central nervous system tissues, seems to belong to the genus borrelia of the spirochaetales, family of Treponemataceae. From: Link :::::::::: ::::::::::::
::::::::: More This is nothing unusual in comparison with other acute or chronic spirochetal diseases, such as relapsing fever and syphilis... If the granular bodies in multiple sclerosis are developing from broken-up spirochetes, and there is much evidence for it, the possibility of previous presence of countless numbers of actively multiplying spirochetes in the tissues is not far fetched.
Now recently read this:
According to a new study, men transmit multiple sclerosis (MS) to their children 2.2 times more often than women in families where the father or mother and a child have multiple sclerosis. From: Posted: July 25, 2006 Science daily
Oh yeah forgot to mention since I have belonged here far to long as a Lymie.Lots &Lots of LLMD can tell you that if one person is infected most likely the other is at least thats what I have heard or read over the years being here. Usually it contains something like this> that some of there patients have a problem clearing the infection one knows they have lyme and a year or so later the spouse shows up with symptoms so they LLMDs are beginning to tret both husband and wife ie so they ndont pass it back inforth. thats the ssspiel
[ 26. July 2006, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: treepatrol ]
Posted by cantgiveupyet (Member # 8165) on :
Up for BV to see on first page.
BV this made it to page two thats why you didnt see it.
there are so many posts in a day often they go onto page two.
Posted by Sewer Rat (Member # 9574) on :
quote:Originally posted by bv: As i understand it, LD caused by a spirochete, which is a corkscrew shaped bacteria. Again, as i understand it from reading various internet articles, the spirochete infects multiple body organs, including the male reproductive organs. Can LD be spread to others by sexual intercourse? Any real evidence one way or the other?
Potentially there is a risk, but there is no peer-reviewed medical literature that proves if Borreliae can be or cannot be transmitted by sexual intercourse of humans.
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
Well -
there's no peer reviewed medical literature or "controlled studies" on allot of things based in reality.
I don't see how TBD's could NOT be transmitted sexually.
I believe this mode of transmission may be less aggressive in the onset of disease, in that it would pass through more bodily defence systems than when infection is injected into the blood stream via insect vectors - but that it's passing through is probable.
Mo
[ 26. July 2006, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: Mo ]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Yes. Without a doubt. From female to male as well. Without a doubt. I had the insect bite, EM, and positive tests. My husband came down with Lyme about one year plus later, with the same co-infections.
Take care.
Posted by Sewer Rat (Member # 9574) on :
quote:Originally posted by GiGi: Yes. Without a doubt. From female to male as well. Without a doubt. I had the insect bite, EM, and positive tests. My husband came down with Lyme about one year plus later, with the same co-infections.
How can you tell if your husband got it from you, instead of from an unnoticed tick bite, which go unnoticed so often? How can you be "without a doubt"?
Some also believe these pathogens can be transmitted via touching and kissing, and via a lot of other ways. Take for example the opinion of Lida Mattman, Ph.D.:
"Dr. Mattman believes that touching can spread Lyme disease. The Lyme spirochete can actually occur in tears, and therefore can be transmitted to hands, which contaminates doorknobs, pens, people shaking hands, etc. This appears to be consistent with the observation that whole families often culture positive for Lyme and present with symptoms."
So, according to this theory, perhaps your husband got contaminated by shaking your hand or only by holding a doorknob.
We can believe what we want, but as long as all this isn't supported by decent studies, we can't be sure and without a doubt, IMHO.
Posted by brentb (Member # 6899) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sewer Rat:
We can believe what we want, but as long as all this isn't supported by decent studies, we can't be sure and without a doubt, IMHO. [/QB]
That we know all about the genetic structure of borrelia yet still have no idea on it's transmission abilities goes beyond incompetence. No study will ever be done. Nor imo is it needed.
That said I can pull up one study on mice that showed horizontal transmission.
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
"That said I can pull up one study on mice that showed horizontal transmission."
Ah. Well, there ya have it... the horizontal mombo is prooven risky. More inventive positions are inconclusive.
I had no idea mice were so conventional.
Mo
Posted by lymemomtooo (Member # 5396) on :
Who would be stupid enough to volunteer for the study? ...And risk a life of Hell...
Mo Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Yes, it can be transmitted by body fluids. A team in Germany (I am familiar with the group of researchers via Dr. K.) did a study collecting swaps from public telephone booth through a large area of Germany. All swaps tested positive for Lyme Disease.
A group of researchers collected cell wall deficient Lyme/ borrelia from root canal teeth removed from ALS patients; extracted the toxins from these. Result: transmission can take place via ticks, etc., but also by saliva, kissing, sexual intercourse; it can be passed on by touching finger to lips and then touching a table - someone coming along picking it up. They found that form of Lyme stays prolific and alive for as long as 72 hours, in the sunlight. It is described as looking like a blob and highly contagious. For security purposes, the material cannot be shipped from one lab to another.
I had a perfectly healthy husband who worked flying all over creation past the age of 70 ---. I got bit. Bammmm. The stress he was exposed to by taking care of me, washing, dressing, feeding me, was enough for his immunity to cave in not being able to fight the infection. He ended up in a wheelchair, just as I was able to get out of mine.
None of us live in a sterile surrounding. Do all you can to live in a healthy way. Most people are exposed to these microbial infections somewhere, somehow. I am not sure a glass bubble would prevent that. Yet many do not end up with a devasting Lyme Disease.
Take care.
Posted by Sewer Rat (Member # 9574) on :
quote:Originally posted by GiGi: Yes, it can be transmitted by body fluids. A team in Germany (I am familiar with the group of researchers via Dr. K.) did a study collecting swaps from public telephone booth through a large area of Germany. All swaps tested positive for Lyme Disease.
A group of researchers collected cell wall deficient Lyme/ borrelia from root canal teeth removed from ALS patients; extracted the toxins from these. Result: transmission can take place via ticks, etc., but also by saliva, kissing, sexual intercourse; it can be passed on by touching finger to lips and then touching a table - someone coming along picking it up. They found that form of Lyme stays prolific and alive for as long as 72 hours, in the sunlight. It is described as looking like a blob and highly contagious. For security purposes, the material cannot be shipped from one lab to another.
Can you give a link to these studies? Can you tell me the PubMed ID?
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
Sewer Rat,
You may want to consider that Lyme is a very political disease and many of the studies that are done never make it to main stream sources. If you keep your mind closed to anything other than what you find in PubMed, the chances of finding answers that lead you to wellness would appear relatively small from where I sit.
I have heard the same information that GiGi recounts here. Not all truth is found in PubMed.
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
Like I posted one time in the past on THIS subject: This COULD be the direct result of the saying in the Bible that says; "They will grow faint out of fear, not knowing the way out".
It COULD very well be. And with the attitude of our leaders and so-called "life savers" NO REAL answer WILL be found.
Then we get people like MY wife, who doesn't worry much about ANY of it. AND we have been having UNPROTECTED sex for about six years now and SHE has NO symtoms as yet. So WHO really is to say FOR SURE.
Not me! IF there really IS a chance of it, I should think there would be at least a few of these doctors who "claim" that it is so to be doing some REAL studies; instead of just out to make money on it all, like most do.
Then again, maybe I don't even have Lyme; just the symptoms, like mu duck says.
Jim Posted by 777 (Member # 8925) on :
quote: A team in Germany ... did a study collecting swaps from public telephone booth through a large area of Germany. All swaps tested positive for Lyme Disease.
How did they test this?
Posted by LYMESCIENCE (Member # 9259) on :
Here we go for some studies. Read on for those who are interested in science. However, I make a point that I am not for or against this idea. More science must be done before we can say anything for sure. A reasonable hypotheisis may be that depending on the clinical pictuture, and if Borrelia are present in the testes, durring intercourse, Lyme may be transmittable maybe every
1 out of 70 times. Certanily a low percenatage for those with definite Lyme, and who also happen to have testicular involvement. So, my reasoning is that those this probally does occur, its not the most common form of transmition. However, more science is needed to confirm or deny any theory. In the meantime, patients, and physicians need to be vigilant in noting observations in the paitients they see, and patients need to be vigilant in ruling out other possible causes for entire families coming down with Lyme before we can directly say exactly how Lyme seems in some cases to be transmittable human to human. While I have little doubt that this occurs, we have no idea how often, and by which mechanism Borrelia uses.
"Interestingly, we found that B. crocidurae could penetrate the tubules and remain in the testis long after the end of spirochetemia, suggesting that the testis can serve as a reservoir for this bacteria in subsequent relapses"
Viability of Borrelia burgdorferi in stored semen. Kumi Diaka J, Harris O. Br Vet J 1995 Mar-Apr; 151(2): 221-4 [have, not scanned]
Semen from 5 dogs, 3 bulls and 3 rams were collected ... divided in 2 equal parts, BSK-H medium and B. burgdorferi added + 4 controls. A was stored at 5 degr. C for 48 hours B was cryopreserved in liquid nitrogen at -196 degr. C for 12 weeks The specimens were thawed in waterbath to 37 degr. C. A drop on object glass was examined in phase contrast microscope for sperm motility and viable / motile B. burgdorferi, graded on a scale 0-3. A significant amount of spirochetes survived cryopreservation and no significant different found between the 2 different storage methods or between the 3 animal species. The viability of B. burgdorferi in cryopreservation was better than spermatozoa .
Experimental and Applied Acarology Publisher: Springer Netherlands ISSN: 0168-8162 (Paper) 1572-9702 (Online) DOI: 10.1023/A:1006058728821 Issue: Volume 23, Number 2 Date: February 1999 Pages: 165 - 169 Sexual transmission of Borrelia garinii by male Ixodes persulcatus ticks (Acari, Ixodidae)
Audrey N. Alekseev1, Helen V. Dubinina1, Sjoerd G.T. Rijpkema2 and Leo M. Schouls2 (1) Zoological Institute, Russian Academy of Sciences, Universitetskaya nabSt, Petersburg, Russia (2) Research Laboratory for Infectious Diseases, National Institute of Public Health and the Environment Bilthoven, The-Netherlands
Abstract We investigated the transmission of Borrelia garinii and Borrelia afzelii between male and female Ixodes persulcatus ticks. For this purpose the infection rate of partners from tick couples was determined by polymerase chain reaction and reverse line blot. In couples, where the male tick was infected with B. garinii, four out of nine female partners carried B. garinii. In eight couples, male ticks had a dual infection of B. afzelii and B. garinii and three female partners were infected by Borrelia spirochetes. Two female ticks carried B. garinii, and one female tick had a dual infection. No evidence for transmission of B. afzelii from male to female ticks was found among seven couples. In 45 couples where the female tick was infected, not one male tick carried spirochetes. The difference in the B. garinii infection rate between male and female ticks among these couples is highly significant. Our data suggest that transmission of B. garinii from male ticks to female ticks does occur. Sexual transmission of this pathogen may play an important role in the maintenance of B. garinii in I. persulcatus. � Rapid Science Ltd. 1998
Tick - Ixodes persulcatus - Borrelia garinii - sexual transmission.
Posted by LYMESCIENCE (Member # 9259) on :
Studies that I mentioned in my post were done with grants from foreign countries, at top universities. I am not at liberty to give you the details. Often these findings get an early burial for a variety of reasons and never see the light of day unless through people who are willing to stick their necks out.
I really am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It will not change reality.
I like to look things square in the face and act accordingly.
Take care.
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
There is no 'proof' that it is not sexually transmissable.
Mo
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mo: There is no 'proof' that it is not sexually transmissable.
Mo
AND vice versa. There is NO proof that it IS transmissable.
Jim Posted by minimonkey (Member # 8693) on :
With an illness/host of illnesses this devastating, I'd choose caution over lack of it -- or at the very least informed consent. My husband knows there may be a risk, but is choosing to take that risk --- okay, his choice, but don't say he wasn't warned -- and he heard it directly from my LLNP.
I actually contacted my ex and told him about my dx and the possibility of risk to him and his new girlfriend... he rather shrugged it all off ... but at least I did the responsible thing.
I've given up on trying to convert the skeptics -- I give out all the info, and what they do or don't do with it is up to them.
Posted by brentb (Member # 6899) on :
quote:Originally posted by JimBoB: we have been having UNPROTECTED sex for about six years now and SHE has NO symtoms as yet.
Jim
Big point when you state no SYMPTOMS. Has she been tested? Have you been tested? I gave my wife borrelia and she was running marathons at the time. No symptoms but I did pass on borrelia to her.
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
No, neither of us has ben tested. I WANTED to be tested, but the doc stalled it off for several months now. NOW that I have Medicare, I plan on seeing IF I can get a test through them. Don't know what THEY do about that.
My wife most likely will not UNLESS she gets REALLY sick.
Jim Posted by duke77 (Member # 5051) on :
quote: My wife most likely will not UNLESS she gets REALLY sick.
My LLMD has said that if a person tests positive but shows no symptoms he would be reluctant to treat it. He says adding abx might just make it bad because the body is obviously keeping it at bay.
Posted by brentb (Member # 6899) on :
quote:Originally posted by duke77: [QUOTE] He says adding abx might just make it bad because the body is obviously keeping it at bay.
Probably a wise idea...When we attack "Lyme" with traditional abx we attack every bacteria in our body.
A couple things can happens. Some of the bacteria fight back with their own toxic arsenal. c difficile, VRE, MRSA come to mind. Also when we kill off the bacteria opportunistic pathogens will take it's place.Most notably yeast(candida).
My suggestion is give your wife c silver and other natural abx which do not have these potentially disastrous effects.
Posted by Blackstone (Member # 9453) on :
Here's a question -
Are these studies that show infection and transmission in-vivo immune responses? Are they IgMs or IgGs from Igenex type labs? PCRs?
Since lyme is so hard to "pin down" even with what we believe is the best medical tests, I find it hard to assert that something like sexual transmission could have such strong evidence.
Something to remember. There's a difference between a viable organism and an inviable one. HIV is found in tears, skin, and sweat, but as many of us know that it is not transmitted that way. Likewise, there are many insect (think mosquito and malaria) vector diseases that can be found in human to human transmission, but the organisms are not viable to actually infect and reproduce.
I'm not taking a stance one way or another because we don't have the data, but we should keep things in perspective.
Posted by Sewer Rat (Member # 9574) on :
quote:Originally posted by Blackstone: Since lyme is so hard to "pin down" even with what we believe is the best medical tests, I find it hard to assert that something like sexual transmission could have such strong evidence.
It doesn't have!
Posted by brentb (Member # 6899) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sewer Rat:
quote:Originally posted by Blackstone: Since lyme is so hard to "pin down" even with what we believe is the best medical tests, I find it hard to assert that something like sexual transmission could have such strong evidence.
It doesn't have!
because they don't want any!!!
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
Appahrently, the farthest they will go is to find that ticks who practice unsafe sex are at risk.
(as well as the mice who do it horizontally)
------------------------------------------------
J Med Entomol. 1996 May;33(3):351-4. Related Articles, Links
Exchange of Borrelia burgdorferi between Ixodes persulcatus (Ixodidae:Acarina) sexual partners.
Alekseev AN, Dubinina HV.
Zoological Institute of Russian Academy of Sciences, Universitetskaja nab., St. Petersburg, Russia.
Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato infection rate in Ixodes persulcatus Schulze maintained at different relative humidity gradients in male and females pairs, separated by sex, and in ticks of both sexes having either normal or abnormal exoskeleton were compared. Ticks were collected in the St. Petersburg Region of Russia during 1992 and 1994. We observed that the infection rate among the ticks maintained as sexual pairs was 1.75-2.00 times higher than that among ticks maintained singles, indicating a borreliae interchange between sexual partners. This pathogen interchange was thought to result from a venereal or omovampiric (cannibalistic) mode of borreliae transmission. Borrelia burgdorferi s.l. was determined to be present in 22.9% (112 infected specimens of 489 total), whereas infection occurred in 17.4% of single females and 16.5% of single males. The data indicate the importance of isolating ticks sexually during quantitative disease investigations with borreliae as well as tick-borne encephalitis virus and other tick-borne pathogens.
PMID: 8667380 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
Recovery of Lyme spirochetes by PCR in semen samples of previously diagnosed Lyme disease patients
Gregory Bach, DO, International Scientific Conference on Lyme Disease, April 2001
Objective Lyme disease, being a spirochete with pathology similar to syphilis, is often found difficult to treat due to the spirochete invading sanctuary sites and displaying pleomorphic characteristics such as a cyst (L-form). Because a significant portion of sexually active couples present to my office with Lyme disease, with only one partner having a history of tick exposure, the question of possible secondary (sexual) vector of transmission for the spirochete warrants inquiry. Additionally, sexually active couples seem to have a marked propensity for antibiotic failure raising the question of sexually active couples re-infecting themselves through intimate contact.
Methods Lyme spirochetes/DNA have been recovered from stored animal semen. Recovery of spirochete DNA from nursing mother's breast milk and umbilical cord blood by PCR (confirmed by culture/microscopy), have been found in samples provided to my office.
Results Surprisingly, initial laboratory testing of semen samples provided by male Lyme patients (positive by western blot/PCR in blood) and the male sexual partner of a Lyme infected female patient were positive approximately 40% of the time. PCR recovery of Lyme DNA nucleotide sequences with microscopic confirmation of semen samples yielded positive results in 14/32 Lyme patients (13 male semen samples and 1 vaginal pap).
ALL positive semen/vaginal samples in patients with known sexual partners resulted in positive Lyme titers/PCR in their sexual partners. 3/4 positive semen patients had no or unknown sexual partners to be tested.
These preliminary findings warrant further study. Current a statistical design study to evaluate the possibility of sexual transition of the spirochete is being undertaken. Our laboratory studies confirm the existence of Lyme spirochetes in semen/vaginal secretions. Whether or not further clinical studies with a larger statistical group will support the hypothesis of sexual transmission remains to be seen.
A retrospective clinical study is also underway. We are reviewing the medical records, collecting semen samples of patients who were previously diagnosed with current and previously treated Lyme disease are being asked to provide semen,pap and blood samples for extensive laboratory testing.
Conclusion With the initially impressive data, we feel the subsequent statistical study on the sexual transmission of the Lyme spirochete will illuminate a much broader spectrum of public health concerns associated with the disease than the originally accepted tick borne vector.
Posted by Sewer Rat (Member # 9574) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mo: Recovery of Lyme spirochetes by PCR in semen samples of previously diagnosed Lyme disease patients
I know this study, but it is unpublished AFAIK.
quote:PCR recovery of Lyme DNA nucleotide sequences with microscopic confirmation of semen samples yielded positive results in 14/32 Lyme patients"
What does "microscopic confirmation" imply? That live spirochetes were seen?
quote:ALL positive semen/vaginal samples in patients with known sexual partners resulted in positive Lyme titers/PCR in their sexual partners.
It is not clear to me if live spirochetes were found in the samples. Even if that is the case, then it's still a question if the spirochetes can infect the partner.
I also wonder if Dr. B. could choose couples of which he knew they both have Lyme.
Another explanation that several members of one family have Lyme is that they live in and often visit the same areas, so they share the same exposure risk.
Posted by brentb (Member # 6899) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mo: Appahrently, the farthest they will go is to find that ticks who practice unsafe sex are at risk.
(as well as the mice who do it horizontally)
lol, nice way to start the morning. very interesting article.
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
I believe there are many reasons one can attribute to avoidance of doing the studies in peer review.
We're discussing probability here.
It's interesting that some of the older published works on Lyme indicated this requires study, yet none have been done.
The following article speaks of the similarities between Bb and other spirochetal diseases.
Lepto, syphillis, ect..
Why has sexual transmission of Bb not been researched?
------------------------------------------------
Rev Infect Dis. 1989 Sep-Oct;11 Suppl 6:S1460-9.
Epidemiology and clinical similarities of human spirochetal diseases.
Schmid GP.
Division of Sexually Transmitted Diseases, Centers for Disease Control, Atlanta, Georgia 30333.
Lyme disease, first identified in 1975, is the most recently recognized of the seven human spirochetal diseases; the evolving clinical picture of Lyme disease indicates it shares many features with the other diseases. These similarities are striking in view of the diverse epidemiology of the seven diseases, which are caused by Treponema species (spread by human-to-human contact) or Leptospira or Borrelia species (zoonoses).
These similarities include the following: (1) skin or mucous membrane as portal of entry; (2) spirochetemia early in the course of disease, with wide dissemination through tissue and body fluid; and (3) one or more subsequent stages of disease, often with intervening latent periods. Lyme disease shares with many spirochetal diseases a tropism for skin and neurologic and cardiovascular manifestations, whereas chronic arthritis is unique to Lyme disease. These similarities and dissimilarities offer opportunities to discover which properties unique to the pathogenic spirochetes are responsible for clinical manifestations and suggest that certain clinical features of patients with spirochetal diseases other than Lyme disease may someday be recognized in patients with Lyme disease.
Publication Types: Review
PMID: 2682958 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Posted by brentb (Member # 6899) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mo: The following article speaks of the similarities between Bb and other spirochetal diseases.
Yep, they are very similar...Couldn't find my mice study but did come across this vet report. Shows without a doubt that horizontal transmission (urine,feces,std or something else) does indeed occur.
Experimental inoculation of dogs with Borrelia burgdorferi. Burgess EC. Zentralbl Bakteriol Mikrobiol Hyg A 1986 Dec; 263(1-2): 49-54 [have, not scanned] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3554844&dopt=Abstract To determine if dogs could serve as a reservoir for Borrelia burgdorferi, three beagles were inoculated subcutaneously (SQ) with 200 laboratory cultured spirochetes which were originally isolated from blood of a Peromyscus leucopus from Ft. McCoy, Wisc. One four month old beagle was inoculated SQ with 5 ground Ixodes dammini from Shelter Island, N.Y. which came from an area with a 50% B. burgdorferi tick infection rate; and another uninfected four month old beagle was housed loose on the floor with the tick inoculated dog. All three spirochete inoculated beagles developed IFA antibody titers to B. burgdorferi of (7 log2) to (8 log2) by day 28 post inoculation. All were apparently healthy and no spirochetes were cultured from the blood. In an attempt to exacerbate the disease two of the dogs were given 3 mg of dexamethasone on day 68 post inoculation. B. burgdorferi was isolated from blood of all these dogs on days 4 and 97 days post inoculation. The tick inoculated dog developed a B. burgdorferi IFA antibody titer of (10 log2) by day 14 post inoculation. The contact exposed dog also developed a B. burgdorferi IFA antibody titer of (7 log2) on post contact day 21 indicating contact infection. B. burgdorferi was not isolated from either of these dogs. These results indicate that, contact transmission of B. burgdorferi may occur between dogs, dogs can be subclinically infected with B. burgdorferi and have persistent infections.
These results indicate that, contact transmission of B. burgdorferi may occur between dogs, dogs can be subclinically infected with B. burgdorferi and have persistent infections.
Veterinary study is often far advanced to human as far as infectious disease goes. You can learn allot more about Babesiosis through veterinary study.
Now, it baffles the mind that researchers have spent time and effort observing the antics and outcome of sexual relations between mice, dogs, and even ticks ..
yet have not studied human transmision.
For that matter -- I doubt that anyone on this thread would sign up for the study..
I suppose some of the manipilated, uneducated public might.
(Dollars to donuts -- our Steerite/Yale/government/insurance excecitives wouldn't.)
Mo
Posted by brentb (Member # 6899) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mo: [b]
Now, it baffles the mind that researchers have spent time and effort observing the antics and outcome of sexual relations between mice, dogs, and even ticks .. Mo
The date on the above study was 1986. I'm sure they wish it back. When the real problem became evident any similar type study was kabashed and the coverup began. Thank god for ILADS. Hiding the truth is never the answer.
Posted by ping (Member # 6974) on :
hi bv -
In a word, the answer to your question is "Yes". Will forward good info to you via private email.
"We are more than a container for Lyme."
Posted by Sewer Rat (Member # 9574) on :
quote:Originally posted by ping: In a word, the answer to your question is "Yes". Will forward good info to you via private email.
Does "good info" imply the "real evidence" bv asked for?
Posted by meg (Member # 22) on :
Mo: Ah. Well, there ya have it... the horizontal mombo is prooven risky. More inventive positions are inconclusive.
I had no idea mice were so conventional. *** LOL-!!
My belief: lyme is transmissable thru all bodily fluids...saliva, breast milk, tears, semen, sweat, and I believe Aids is also.
The CDC will never admit it though.
[ 06. August 2006, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: meg ]
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
quote:Originally posted by meg: Mo:
What's your point Meg?--lyme is transmissable thru all bodily fluids...saliva, breast milk, tears, semen, sweat, and I believe Aids is also.
The CDC will never admit it though.
Hey Meg. Don't forget the OIL from your skin. Make absolutley SURE that you do NOT touch anyone or anything. Be SURE to wear rubber gloves when not in your private abode. AND use rubber gloves to put on the rubber gloves so NONE of your oil gets on the gloves. NEVER rub your itchy nose with those gloves.
NEVER talk into a public phone, ever.
Do NOT take public transportation. Way too risky for others.
AND IF you have touched ANYONE in the past, be SURE to instruct THEM to do exactly likewise, including ANYONE they have been in contact with.
Etc., etc., etc..
I am sure I am missing things, but maybe others can come up with them.
Have a good day.
Jim Posted by meg (Member # 22) on :
You morphed my post above....not a nice thing to do when you quote others statements.
JimBob from above: You will get all kinds of opinions on this. BUT the jury really is still out on this. There are NO studies on this to the best of my knowledge, unless one has been done in the past few weeks.
Most doctors say no. A few say they think so. A handful say yes. Take your choice. ********** Yes, that's true. If you know there's all sorts of opinions, then whats the problem?
The notion of coming thru the skin was posted by you and one other poster....not I McFly.
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