My doctor has me on many supplements including high doses of Vit C. 3000 mg daily with instruction to increase it to bowel tolerance whenever I have a flare of pain. I have been doing this now for 5 mths and am doing very well.
My rheumatoid (inflamatory) joint symptoms are gone, but a few of my finger joints closest to the nail (rheumie says this is osteoarthritis)sometimes swell and stiffen without much pain.
I recently read a Duke University research conducted June 2004 which found that while longterm high dose levels of Vitamin C are beneficial to rheumatoid arthritis, it may actually cause Osteoarthritis. Since that was the only symptom I had left, it concerned me a bit and I backed way off to 1000mg dose. Within 3 days, every joint on the right side of my body flared painfully. I kept researching the Vit C study and even e-mailed Duke University who has not yet responded. I found many subsequent comments from doctors saying this one study was only on guinea pigs and not a sufficient study to conclude Vit C contributes to Osteoarthritis. Furthermore,according to the doctors and even Duke, this study refutes multiple previous double blind studies conducted on humans that showed high dose Vit C is effective for reducing both RA and OA.
Bottom line for me, once my joints flared, I ramped my C back up to 3000 mgs and the pain immediately went away.
I'm sticking to C for now and will discuss this all with my doctor on my next visit.
For those of you who have inflamed joints, even if you don't have RA (lyme can cause RA) or OA, you might want to consider high dose Vit C.
Since there is so much research out there showing the positive effects of Vit C on arthritis, I am left to wonder once again why my rheumie never mentioned it. Thank God for my wonderful, awesome, MD who put me onto this supplement along with many others.
I am taking powdered C by Perque. It is called Potent C Guard. It includes magnesium.
I share this hoping it may help someone else whose joints are inflamed.
Posted by 8man12 (Member # 7664) on :
its very possible that high of dose can be boosting your immune system.I have arthritis really bad,but my llmd says lyme goes in the bone and hurts worse than arthritis.I do well also on vit. c.The vitamin c foundation has good news on there site.I also have very good luck with french green clay.
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
Thanks for posting about this, Luvs. I've recently come to many of the same conclusions and realizations abut the benefits of Vitamin C in inflammatory and arthritic conditions.
I, too, have osteoarthritis in my fingers, so am a little concerned about any possibility that Vit C will contribute to this problem.
Regarding the Duke U study, I think I read somewhere that Guinea Pigs lack a certain (liver?) enzyme that most other animals and humans have, and therefore Vitamin C studies on these animals is called into question.
In any event, my new homeopath tells me that people with chronic illness should be taking 10 grams of an oral ascorbate-form Vitamin C daily. So, I'm slowly increasing my 4-gram a day dosage, and incorporating some ``sustained release'' forms.
Apparently, Vitamin C is vital to the integrity of all tissues, and especially collagen-based tissues which are so often affected in Lyme Disease.
I'm still trying to sort out all the ascorbate vs. ascorbic acid myths and truths. I just started reading Thomas Levy's ``Curing the Incurable'' book about Vitamin C, so hopefully that will shed some light on all of this.
Thanks, 8man, for mentioning the Vitamin C Foundation - it is a good site.
Tracy
Posted by liz28 (Member # 4946) on :
Another product you might want to check out is Horsetail Grass, because it has high silica levels. I don't know much about it; it's the usual deal of some people loving this herb, and some giving lots of warnings about this or that side effect. But apparently it is an old-time remedy for osteoporosis.
I've been taking 4000 mg a day and my doctor told me to increase it. So I'm up to 6000 mg. It's for autonomic neuropathy.
You mention bowel tolerance. I've been having loose, tan stools. Could the Vitamin C be causing this?
Posted by sadie420 (Member # 9294) on :
So, if you see that the C helps you could also add salt and then you would be on the salt/c protocol for Lyme. I take 14 grams each of salt and c daily. You can check the Lymestrategies forum for more info. if you are interested.
Sadie
Posted by 3ktykatz (Member # 9596) on :
If you use buffered vitamin C, you won't have problems with upset stomach. The acidity is buffered with a mineral like calcium. I can't even take 2000 mg of "regular" vit C, but I take 12,000 mg of buffered. So far, I like Kal buffered vit C the best. (vitaminshoppe.com)
I haven't been able to find anything with over 1000 mg per tablet in the buffered, so I have to take 12 of the little devils a day. But, it is certainly worth it.
Kitty hugs, 3ktykatz
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
3 meowers,
After reading your post, I checked my bottle of C and it is buffered. Whew!
Another thing I am doing that I feel is very beneficial and it is very inexpensive and very safe is garlic. I chop it fresh and take 1/2 tsp twice daily. After chopping, let it sit at least 15 mins so the allin turns to allicin which is the active antibacterial and antifungal agent in garlic. Then take it right after a meal so the stomach acids will churn up the garlic. I just gulp the 1/2 tsp down with water like pills. It goes down easy and barely leaves an aftertaste.
Garlic is incredibly healthy. In addition to clearing microbes, it thins the blood, so be careful if you have surgery coming up. My doctor said to take it to the point I stink. So far everyone says I don't stink so I'm trying to ramp it up.
A good friend of mine with Lyme is seeing Dr Zhang and using his herbs. In a discussion with her she said "Want to know what is the main killer diller herb?" Of course I wanted to know and she said "garlic".
Dr Klinghardt told another lyme friend of mine that if you could only do one thing for lyme, make it garlic.
I'm also taking 15 enzyme capsules daily. 3 with meals and 12 inbetween. My doctor has me on Vitalzym and it is supposed to be very good for joint pain. I ran out of it once and was several days before replacing it. I think my joint pain did increase a little but nowhere near the obvious change I had when I backed off of the C.
Carol of PA just recently posted that enzymes help attack the lyme. I hope she is right.
I am currenly asymptomatic and holding my breath that it will last.
Luvs
Posted by Aniek (Member # 5374) on :
3ktykatz,
It's probably better splitting the Vit C up. Your body probably can't process much more than 1000mg at a time anyway.
Posted by 3ktykatz (Member # 9596) on :
I do split it. I take 4 tablets 3 times a day. Thanks for telling me, tho.
Does anyone else herx from garlic? I KNOW what a wonder drug it is. I believe it could substitute for many of our most prescribed drugs. But, I have such a major herx on a tiny bit. Actually, I have a major, scary herx on everything, seems like. That's my biggest problem right now - bad, long lasting (weeks) herx on anything from abx to magnesium to garlic. I'm not doing myself much good just being able to take one of something every few weeks. Maybe I have to strengthen my body in other ways to be able to stand the herx.
Sorry, just rambling.
3ktykatz
Posted by karatelady (Member # 7854) on :
Luvs,
Your mailbox is full!
Where do you buy the Potent C Guard?
Thanks ~ Sandy
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
Thanks Karatelady,
I didn't realize my mailbox was full. I have cleaned it out now. My doctor is in Winston-Salem, NC. A local healthfood store stocks all the supplements my doctor requires. I purchase my Potent C from them and they will ship. The Perque website (www.perque.com) says sold through doctors only, but a search finds several websites selling it. I can't vouch for any of them but I will be happy to give you the contact info to my source if you need it.
3ktys, one clove of garlic a day (1/2 tsp) does not give me any trouble, but when I just double that dose, I do get sore muscles which I guess is the start of a herx.
I have a high tolerance to pain. My daughter can't tolerate any pain. Maybe your tolerence level is low and you feel every change in your body much stronger than most and that is why everything you take makes you herx? Just a thought. In any case, my doctor uses pain as his measuring stick. He does not want me in pain so as soon as I get uncomfortable, he has me step back to the dose just prior to the pain. I like this way of treatment.
If your threshhold is once every 4 days, then just go with that. It is still working. It may take you longer to heal but at least you aren't suffering more than you have to and who knows what damage herxing may do?
Are you doing anything to help your elimination systems? My doctor is giving me glutathione and lipostabil pushes (injections) every two weeks which helps my liver detox my body. I also have metal toxicity and the glutathione is a detoxifier. The lipostabil supports the liver functions.
Are you left handed by chance? I tried accupuncture last December when I was in a great deal of pain from inflamation, but instead of relieving my pain, it intensified it for 2 days afterward. I just learned a week ago that left handed people are wired the opposite of right handed people and the accupuncture points used for rh people will cause pain in lh people. I'm not in pain now so I can't test that, but if I get pain again I am going to go to the accupuncturist who told me about this just to see if it is true. She is left handed herself and that is how she learned about it. She said most accupuncturists don't know.
Luvs
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
up
Posted by karatelady (Member # 7854) on :
Luvs,
Thanks ~ I ordered some from Health Solutions Nutrition Store - I went ahead and got the 16 ounce bottle of powder.