I'm trying to get through Healing Lyme, When I go on this website to search it kicks up page expired, soooooooooo,
I am interested in the Andrographis, is sounds to good to be true. Is there a brand name I should be looking for ?
There are hundreds of places to order it from,any suggestions????? BEst prices ???
There are a ton of herbs I cannot take because I am on Comadin, the andrographis does not seem to interfer with this......
[ 04. January 2007, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: typhoon_sheri ]
Posted by Jennifer Geddie (Member # 9097) on :
I have read posts that indicate that a lot of people use 1st Chinese Herbs .
Others have purchased through Vitacost I believe.
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
I use Planetary Formulations.
Posted by Vermont_Lymie (Member # 9780) on :
I use Nature's Way, it is standardized in the manner that Buhner recommends. Don't know if it is the best, but it seems to be helping me...
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
We love Goji berries and whatever else we need, we purchase at 1st Chinese Herbs. Their products are clean --- which is very important. And they are nice people with very reasonable prices. For us, in the same State, no S&H. It is so nice to find someone that doesn't need to get rich overnight.
You will also find good general information on 1st Chinese website.
has worked well for me.
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
I buy everything from myvitanet.com , very inexpensive, though it's really, really slow shipping.
Northern California: In San Francisco (in case anyone's listening from there) they have most of this at either Rainbow Grocery or this herb shop:
Scarlet Sage Herb Company 1173 Valencia St San Francisco, CA 94110-3026 (415) 821-0997 Scarlet Sage also sells several of Buhner's books.
I've also found all the herbs at Elephant Pharmacy in Berkeley and San Rafael (thank God, since myvitanet is being SOO slow on my order from before Christmas!). I had to get the andrographis from the Elephant Pharmacy chinese herbs counter as a powder and encapsulate it using my capsule filler gadget- the other stuff is on the shelf in the supplements section.
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
I get most of my stuff from 1st Chinese Herbs, in just three or four days and they are way out in Washington and I am here in Wisconsin.
Plus they are very reasonable, and for those of you who don't want to save money, they also have most herbs in capsules now.
Sarah is very nice to talk to also, and very helpful and eager to please. Give them a try. Otherwise I used to use StarWest Botanicals in California, VitaCost, MyVitaNet, and others.
Jim Posted by typhoon_sheri (Member # 10325) on :
Thanks for all the suggestions. I am reading Healing Lyme and have to read it over and over with the brain fog.
I am on Comadin for blood clots and wonder if I can still take some of the herbs.
THANKXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Posted by mtnwoman (Member # 8385) on :
Buhner recommends the Planetary Formula version (at least, that one exactly matches his specifications).
I get for about $8/bottle from vitacost.com
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
quote:Originally posted by typhoon_sheri: Thanks for all the suggestions. I am reading Healing Lyme and have to read it over and over with the brain fog.
I am on Comadin for blood clots and wonder if I can still take some of the herbs.
thank you maria for the link on the advice column !!!!!!!
Posted by hardynaka (Member # 8099) on :
I've been on andro- Planetary Formula for 13 months! I never did more than level 1 of Buhner (now I'm on 4 pills a day), so I didn't try the 1st chinese...
I don't recommend the tincture. Buhner neither. They're much weaker in adrographolides than whole herbs. I tried to increase the amount of the Biopure tincture months ago (when I ran short of the whole herb), it didn't work as well as the brand above. No comparison at all in my opinion.
Selma
Posted by MarsyNY (Member # 7766) on :
What exactly does it do?
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
According to Buhner, on page 78 of his Healing Lyme book, he says:
"Andrographis is perhaps the best primary herb to use in the treatment of Lyme Disease. It is antispirochetal, enhances immune function, protects heart muscle, is anti-inflamatory 9helping with arthritic symptoms0, crosses the blood-brain barrier where it is active as both an anti-spirochetal and calming agent, enhances liver function and protects the liver, helping clear infection from the body".
He goes on and on about it, touting its powers. BUT that is only one herb out of the many that he recommends. I personally do NOT feel just taking Andrographis will be enough for the majority of people with Lyme.
I am not taking it at all right now, as I am taking a much stronger herb for the time being, along with all the other herbs that I take too.
They all play their part in healing.
IF you do not have Buhner's book, by all means get it post haste, and READ it. Then apply what you learn as soon as you can. Having knowledge means nothing. It is the applying of the knowledge that will do the job.
Jim Posted by mag (Member # 8920) on :
hi jimbob,
i am looking in to this protocol you mentioned that you are on a stronger herb
would you mind telling us - what other herb you are on
i am taking olive leaf extract artemisia , grapefruit seed and some probiotics thanks
mags
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
Hi: This MUCH stronger herb is Coptis. It is probably 4 to 6 times stronger than Andrographis. I got into trouble with it when I first tried it last summer. I had to go off all herbs for a few days, then gradually brought them all back, except Coptis.
It took me about 3 weeks to start feeling normal again. Then after a couple of months I tried Coptis again, this time without taking Artemisia annua and without Andrographis.
AND I started out SUPER SLOW. Only one pill a day for over a week. Then two pills a day, etc.. Now I am up to 2 pills, 3 times a day. I don't think I will go any higher than that. When I am out of the pound I have of the stuff, then I plan to go back to Andrographis.
Coptis is also quite expensive. It cost me $73 for one pound. But because it is so strong, it goes a long ways. It is probably THE strongest herb you can get without a prescription. SO, IF you try it go really, really slow and careful with it, okay?
I do take a lot of other herbs also. Right now I am at about 2/3 to 3/4 of what I was at during my maximum load for about 5 or 6 months.
NOW I am taking; EACH DAY: 8 Devil's Claw. 9 Cat's Claw. 12 Sarsaparilla. 3 Nettle Leaf. 9 Andrographis. 9 Resveratrol, (Hu Zhang). 6 Schisandra. 6 Coptis. 3 Milk Thistle. 1 Vitamin A. 1 vitamin B complex. 1 Vitamin E. 3,000 mg of Vitamin c in the form of C-Salts. 1.5 droppers of Red Root tincture. 3 droppers of Periwinkle.
These are the "0" size capsules. I split them up to three times a day, with meals.
I have taken others before, such as: Olive Leaf, Organo, Artemisinin, Artemisia annua, Siberian Ginseng, Yohimbe, Garlic, and others. But have quit them all now. Either they were detrimental to Buhners Protocol OR they didn't seem to make any difference. ANd Siberian Ginseng caused my skin to burn around my ostomy. Not fun. Some of those herbs are "hot" herbs and have a tendency to neutralize Buhners "cold" and "neutral" herbs.
Jim Posted by CaliLymer (Member # 6509) on :
Hello Everyone,
Anyone know what dosage is recommended???
Thanks,
CaliLymer
Posted by MarsyNY (Member # 7766) on :
JImboB,
Thank you for the explanation.
That is a very interesting protocol that you are on. How does one know which herbs are contraindictated with antibiotics?
I will certainly pick up the book
Posted by John292 (Member # 4628) on :
quote:Originally posted by JimBoB: Hi:...... NOW I am taking; EACH DAY: 8 Devil's Claw. 9 Cat's Claw. 12 Sarsaparilla. 3 Nettle Leaf. 9 Andrographis. 9 Resveratrol, (Hu Zhang). 6 Schisandra. 6 Coptis. 3 Milk Thistle. 1 Vitamin A. 1 vitamin B complex. 1 Vitamin E. 3,000 mg of Vitamin c in the form of C-Salts. 1.5 droppers of Red Root tincture. 3 droppers of Periwinkle. ...................Jim
Wow! You are taking a lot of herbs! How do you feel? How is the herxing? I think I would be homw in bed with all that killing goiing on.
Any concern about building a sensivity to any of those herbs? Do you every stop and for a few days to give the body a rest.
I am realy curious as to why you decided to take so much?
I have been taking sarsparilla since I read about in "Healing Lyme" and I think it works well.
Thanks, John
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
First off, let me say, I QUIT the vitamin B complex yesterday. It was giving me pain on urination and even the rest of the time the last few days.
I feel much better today without it.
So now I am not taking so many pills.
I tried one time to quit the herbs for a few days and the symptoms came back pretty hard. THAT was several months ago, but I have been afraid to stop them again. I sure don't want to go back to the way I was feeling a year ago.
What I am taking NOW is not so much. And a matter of fact, I NEVER got up to Buhner's Maximum recommendations.
I am taking what I am taking to feel BETTER, not worse. I herx very little if at all. I personally don't think there is that much die off with herbs. It is more to help with the symptoms and make you FEEL good while your own immune system is being built up again and doing its own killing of the ketes.
I take the Red Root tincture and the Sarsaparilla and Milk Thistle so I DON'T feel bad. IF you don't take those, you WILL feel bad and HERX as you call it. YOUR bodies canNOT handle the kill off by itself. You MUST have help in clearing out any and all killoff. THAT is what RR, S, and MT do.
You don't need a bunch of fancy pancy other MAN MADE expensive stuff to do the job. Keep it natural. Your body will love you for it.
You won't be perfect, but you will improve. I sure did.
John, the Sarsaparilla is good for cleansing your blood, but I sure hope you take a bunch of other natural herbs to work on the Lyme D.. Otherwise you are just spinning your wheels.
As far as any herbs contraindicated with abx, I don't know of any. And really don't care, as I hope to never have to go on them again. At least not for Lyme. About all they did was make my stomach hurt worse anyway.
Jim Posted by John292 (Member # 4628) on :
Hi JimBob,
I don't think to well....... so thanks for helpping me think!!!!
Buhner says the sarsaparilla is: anti-spirochetal modulates immune reponse enhances immue response to lyme spirochetes anti-inflammatory for arthritic symtoms neuroprotector for brain function cross the blood brain barrier and more but I type slow and have to eat lunch.
I am going to get some red root extract and milk thisle pills.
Thanks, John
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
Yes, John, Sarsaparilla does all that and more. It is the ONE HERB I will still continue IF and when I ever quit all the rest. I probably won't quit all the rest though, as I had arthritis and asthma long before I got Lyme. And many of the herbs I take are good for the symptoms of them.
I will probably continue with the Periwinkle tincture and Red Root also for a long time to come.
I am at about 3/4 of my max now, and am considering cutting that to 1/2 soon and see what happens. I have experimented a couple of times in the past couple of weeks with only doing the herbs twice a day and didn't notice any real big difference, so may go to that after this weekend and see how I feel in the days ahead.
I just went to Planet Thrive and Buhner on there, said we should not have to stay on his strong recommendations for more than a year, and since it has been 13 months for me, I guess it is time to cut back.
Scarey to think about though.
Jim Posted by John292 (Member # 4628) on :
Hi Bob and Thanks,
I think when I get done with the herbs and Salt/C I will try d-Lenolate from east park research. I meet this lady that was really bad from LD for 25 years. It is amazing how much she has recovered. She absolutely swears that is from the d-Lenolate.
Posted by Boomerang (Member # 7979) on :
I wonder if you can take the andographs while on ABX?
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
quote:Originally posted by Boomerang: I wonder if you can take the andographs while on ABX?
Of Course. I take it you have not read Stephen Buhner's book, Healing Lyme?.
Jim Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
Hi boomerang,
All these herbs work well with antibiotics. in some cases, there's some evidence that some of the herbs help conventional drugs work better, also (for instance one of the herbs has been tested in AIDS treatment studies which showed that it makes AZT work better than either the herb or AZT alone, and I think the author says something similar about antibiotics and the herbs)
If you're going to try this, though, get the Stephen buhner book, rather than just trying andrographis alone- there is a LOT of info in there to help you figure out what you experience on the herbs and with this disease.
Posted by John292 (Member # 4628) on :
I have that book and I started to take Red Root.
I am also started taking the Milk Thistle but that is not in the book..... can't hurt.
Now I have been cold for years and I have had chills most of the time. Since I have been on the salt/C for 17 weeks or so I have had worse chills.
So I started to use BONESET as this is supposed to help with chills. So far so good I think it is helping me. I feel warmer have less chills.
I also started ARTEMISIA ANNUA which is suppose to kill BABESIA. Chills come with babesia.
I know know that all these different infections live in the gut GI tract and there aren't any tests to find them. So I decided to try and kill this for awhile.
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
OK, I want to suggest which Andrographis to NOT buy:
I just switched brands and bought the Planetary Herbals brand- they're small pills, not capsules, and were cheaper (correct standardised dosage that Buhner suggests taking)- and man are they bitter if you choke on them for some reason (you know, when you don't quite get pills down and they're still in your mouth when the water you're swallowing is gone). I imagine that if you vomit from doxycyclene or for some other reason they'd be coming up even more bitter than capsules (I had a nasty personal experience with this with the capsule form, and learned to not take the doxy and the herbs at the same time in case vomiting happened).
I think Buhner mentions this bitterness issue in the book but I didn't pay attention.
It's probably a good quality product since the company makes other good quality supplements, I just disliked the bitterness.
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
Buhner in his book, recommends taking CAPSULES of Andrographis because TABLETS are so bitter. AND I know from experience he is sure right.
I bought 5 bottles of tablets when I first started taking herbs, and could hardly get them used up they tasted so bad. Needless to say, I never did that again. I don't care HOW CHEAP they are that way. Take it in capsules and you will have absolutely NO taste in your mouth, and as you probably know, your stomache canNOT taste.
Jim Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
up
Posted by mag (Member # 8920) on :
jimbob
i really have become worse over the past 3 weeks - it is as though my brain was manufacturing the spirocyte. So...... I read more on the buhner protocol and
i started the coptis, sarsaspar.. , reservatrol last weekend.- Better now - but i will have to stick with the program
I did have some back pain (maybe the reservatrol) Any way thanks - this post has been most helpful
mags
Posted by Annxyz (Member # 9097) on :
Bump For those asking questions about improving with alternatives
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