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Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
I recently had to fly to CA because my hubby had to have some sugury. Needless to say the long trip & stress are making me exhausted again & much of the old lyme symptoms come back.

I can't take any abx for now as my stomach is still on the fritz & just able to do rife. Does anyone have any tips on some supps or natural things that could help me pull out of this what I pray is only a temporary tail spin?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions
Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
hopefully no one responded because they don't have any suggestions & not because no one gives a [email protected] about me.

Sorry to sound paranoid just feeling real sick sad & depressed [Frown]
Posted by Jill E. (Member # 9121) on :

When I've had to go off of antibiotics due to toxicity issues, my LLMD said I could take garlic (which I usually take in addition to antibiotics when I can handle everything).

He felt it had some natural antibiotic properties. I know it's a good anti-fungal/anti-yeast, it's worked for me.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I have not flown or travelled much since getting Lyme, I have a feeling it would set me back too.

Take care,
Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
Thanks Jill for your suggestion.

I try not to travel & when I do I take wheel chair service. But this time is the longest flight I have taken & had to make the trip out & back in 4 days & couldn't take wheel chair service.

I knew the trip would be hard but figured I would recover by now & not feel worse. I am scared & depressed & don't see any hope right now.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
I'm sorry! Somehow I didn't see this either. Yes, your lymenet friends DO give a $#%& about you!!!!

I second the vote on garlic, but I don't know if your stomach would be able to handle that??

I have a Lyme friend over here who is on garlic only now and feeling better than he has in years even with Lyme abx treatment.

I hope you begin to feel better very soon. Don't think about relapse, OK? Every time it comes up, think of something else!!!



How's hubby???
Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
Thanks lymetoo

Hubby's better. he had a hernia surgury at a hernia clinic in CA. Had to go. Couldn't have him in a hotel room by himself.

Its reall hard not to think relpase but will try

thanks for caring. I am just sick & depressed sorry for the self pity & paranoia

Thanks for the pretty flowers. You are so sweet
Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
Thnaks Northstar for all your help

I don't have a LLMD any more thanks to the medical boards here in the carolinas. Wasn't too motivated to find another one becuase I had been doing so well and not over stomach problems yet to be able to handle orals anyway. Allergic to the injectables.

Kinda feeling screwed at the moment . May try the garlic even though I probably will get more nauseated & gasitric reflux. But would rather have that than another relapse.

Thanks again for the all the great detox information. Doing tincups detox teas at the monment but will try the other things
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
oh, honey, I'm sorry to hear that you feel so down. Please don't take things on the internet personally, including silence= sometimes it just happens that we miss posts.

I recently had a relapse after quitting antibiotics, and I very rapidly went back on the Buhner herbal protocol. I stabilised my symptoms in two weeks (I still have a very low CD 57 but otherwise feel great).
I have Lyme and POSSIBLY bartonella (waiting for test results)
I strongly recommend the Buhner book for learning more about this treatment. Depending on where you are in the Carolinas I could maybe suggest some sources of the herbs- I used to live in NC.

here's what I did for symptom relief after 'overdoing it' and having a serious relapse:

Eleutherococcus (Siberian Ginseng, not any other kind of ginseng), in large doses. It could make you jittery if you take it too late at night. Stephen Buhner's book details how to take it, but in the meantime, look at the doses at any health food store brand and double of triple it temporarily. It has a LONG history of being taken in huge doses safely- buhner's book lists some of the studies. I got the Gaia herbs capsules and was taking two of them at a time several times a day- hard to know how this compares to the tincture form that Buhner specifically recommends, which is the Herb Pharm brand of strong tincture.

I got euphoric and very energetic a few days after starting this dosage (and no antibiotics) - I had previously felt like halfdead roadkill. Eventually the energy leveled out and didn't feel so unnatural. But the initial 'excess energy' was very welcome after sleeping 12 hours a day during my relapse.

I also started taking huge amounts of chlorella- 2000 mg at a time, four times a day (bentonite, citrus pectin, charcoal, and some other endotoxin binders help with this also). I know, from tests, that I have high mercury in my body and this helps mop it up, also my LLMD says that it helps with the Lyme side effects because it mops up some of the endotoxins released by the Lyme. I eventually also added my prescription Welchol (do a search here for more info) to accomplish the same thing (though my doc says that it doesn't go after mercury supposedly).

I added huge amounts of probiotics and started taking garlic and oregano oil to treat any fungal overgrowth that might have been contributing to me feeling so bad- if your immune system is down the candida or other fungi can take advantage of that and bloom, leading to tiredness, pain, etc.

I also started taking hot boneset tea (tea, not tincture or pills, works best), to help deal with the pains I started feeling (which might be related to bartonella) and for immune modulation. I think I first herxed when I started the boneset, as I felt crappier for a couple of days (this is after I'd been feeling euphoric and energetic from the eleuthero). I also added Red Root for helping with lymph system clearing of dead bacteria, in accordance with what Buhner recommends for bartonella, and instantly developed swollen lymph nodes (it's gone down a few days later) . The herx evened out after a couple of days and I use the boneset for pain relief and liver support. It takes care of the minor soreness I was feeling.

The Buhner core protocol of andrographis, Japanese Knotweed, and Cats' Claw, plus the herbs above, pretty much handles all my symptoms (without antibiotics) without antibiotics right now. I'd already wacked at my Lyme with 6 months of antibiotics before this. It took about 2-3 weeks for the symptoms of my relapse to all subside. I still test very low on CD-57 but I feel about 100% normal and functional- ie, how I felt after 6 months of antibiotics, but without the side effects of antibiotics.

I've reduced the dosage of eleuthero as listed in Buhner's book (he recommends a higher then a lower dosage after a few weeks, or a break from the very high Russian dosage after a few weeks).

This all may not work as well for you but it's absolutely amazing to me how well it worked in my case.
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
By the way I've had serious ulcer symptoms (been diagnosed with h. pylori in the past years ago) and the entire time I was treating with oral antibiotics (doxy and then zith) I had ulcer symptoms. I treated the ulcer with the usual herbal ulcer remedies (which normally keep it under control) and it didnt' work at all while on antibiotics.

Now that I'm off the antibiotics I have almost no stomach problems. I did have diarrhea for the first few days of the herbs because I jumped into it very fast- went to higher dosages (week 2 dosage and more, at only my first week) of the herbs than Buhner recommends for starting out. I knew what it was caused by so I just sat it out, but it was a fairly minor symptom compared to what some people go through with diarrhea.
Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
Thanks MariaA

for typing in all the useful info on the herbs. I really appreciate it. Glad to hear they are working for you. If I get any worsed I amy try some herbs although in the past they have really been hard on my stomach.

Have been doing the eleutherocuccus & in the past this has helped me also & not upset my stomach too mcuh. Doesn't seem to be kickin in this time . Have Buhners boodk & May just give them another try if I can get my stomach back on line

I guess only time will tell.

Thanks again

ps was the cats claw hard on your stomach?
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
Everything's been hard on my stomach at one point or another, but I've always taken many supplements at once, so it's hard to tell which one was responsible.

One of my major medical mysteries is figuring out what the heck is wrong with my stomach to begin with- when i first got sick with chronic lyme I didn't know that was the problem, and we were chasing stomach issues (whcih I though were responsible for making me ill). I had h. pylorii (ulcer bacterium) and blastocystis hominis (nasty amoeba-like parasite) at the time. Since then I've been fighting the ulcer for the same number of year4s as the chronic lyme.

My LLMD says that GI stuff including stomach symptoms might just be Lyme itself (not news on this forum), and I think some of my recent problems with it were also antibiotics side effects. With the herbs, it seems like it's settled all of it quite a bit- I'm taking garlic partly for yeast and partly for GI symptoms (it kills parasites and also can help with ulcer and other bacterial infections). I know that everyone's GI issues are different, but these particular herbs (probably the garlic) have really helped with my stabbing stomach pains and occasional diarrhea. For some folks they lead to constipation- Buhner suggests countering this with Vitamin C which is what I'm doing also.
Posted by Jill E. (Member # 9121) on :
Hi again, Dana,

I know you've posted before about your GI issues, and got lots of responses.

I think one of them might have been a recommendation for mastic gum (hope I'm spelling it correctly).

Anyway, I'm just mentioning it again because a Lyme pal of mine has been having GI pain and diarrhea. Her Lyme naturopath, who is great, first thought it was h. pylori but that's coming back negative. So they are still searching.

But he did recommend the mastic gum and she said it's really helped the pain, but not all the GI stuff.

Hang in there.

Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
Thanks MariaA

for all your help and the additional information.
Yep. Its really ahrd to know what exactly is causing the stomach upsets.good hear the herbs are helping & hope it keeps workin for ya

take care
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Dana, I keep those flowers here fresh and ready to send. It's hard, but I do it for my best friends!! [hi]
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
Originally posted by Jill E.:
Hi again, Dana,

I know you've posted before about your GI issues, and got lots of responses.

I think one of them might have been a recommendation for mastic gum (hope I'm spelling it correctly).

Anyway, I'm just mentioning it again because a Lyme pal of mine has been having GI pain and diarrhea. Her Lyme naturopath, who is great, first thought it was h. pylori but that's coming back negative. So they are still searching.

But he did recommend the mastic gum and she said it's really helped the pain, but not all the GI stuff.

Hang in there.


At one point when I didn't know my 'problems' were chronic Lyme, I had to take mastic gum for my ulcer pain. I saw a HUGE improvement in my energy level and other Lyme symptoms. the improvement wasn't permanent, but I think there's a documented correlation between other illnesses that tax your immune system (ie parasites and other GI bugs) and how well you're dealing with Lyme. Hence all the various alternative treatments that recommend looking at parasites, etc (think dr K in Seattle, of the 'a look beyond antibiotics' paper)

I got my Mastic as solaray 'stomach formula':
In NC and SC, I found it at Earth Fare Supermarket also.
Posted by trueblue (Member # 7348) on :
Hi Dana,
I didn't see your post until just now. I'm not sure I ahve any terrific advice, or any really but...

Traveling, even with wheelchair service, wipes the [email protected] out of me. It takes a minimum of 5 days to start to recover from a short trip, for me.

CA is a very long trip and high stress and a big trip back, ugh. How long are you home? It could take a while to recover from the trip and not be you relapsing. I've done a bunch of traveling with no treatment in the past year and, eventually, do bounce back but it takes a long time.

I hope that's the case and you're ready to bounce.

I hope things are looking better soon. [kiss]
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
I have been on garlic juice recently and have big progress towards recovery.

Please note that clover and powder forms of garlic might less effective than the juice or not work at all.

If stomach is a concern, I would take large amount of water or soup with garlic juice, which not only dilute garlic juice but also could (greatly) increase the bioavailability of garlic.

Interestingly, the most garlic helped is my stomach.

Buhner's core herbs are also very helpful for me when I take them in a way I just posted.

I'd say I have been recovered to 95% level from 70% level in the past two months, and still steadily improving.

I hope these herbs will get rid of my Lyme pathogens.

Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :

If you are using Rife it is counterproductive to use any antibiotics at the same time.

If you want to see if H Pylori is what your stomach problem is run 676 Hz for five minutes a day for 5 or 6 days. You will feel the difference after the first treatment if you have it.

Try the detox frequencies also, especially after Lyme frequencies.

What kind of Rife device are you using?

Good Luck

D Bergy
Posted by Porsche (Member # 7644) on :
Hi Dana.

I'm sure you will bounce back soon! Just give it some time.

What was the name of the place where your hubby had his hernia operation at? Did they do a good job? I heard of a place called the Leichenstein or something like that that is suppose to be the best. What a nightmare tho having to travel such a long way for a routine operation. They don't even put the patient under do they?....just give them a local?
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
Ginger helped my stomach when I was having problems eating. It is very good for you in many other ways also.

D Bergy
Posted by clairenotes (Member # 10392) on :
Sorry you are not feeling well. Traveling often triggers my symptoms, too. I am sure your rife will be useful in keeping some of the problems at bay.

For some reason, flying always seems to affect my adrenal glands, which does impact the immune system per my naturopath, among other things. She introduced me to Devil's Club (Herb Pharm). You can take it in the morning and afternoon. Like Siberian Ginseng, if you take it too close to bedtime, it may make you feel wakeful. For me, this herb has a 'quiet strength' quality.

Sea salt helps a little too, in this regard.

Also, remember that flying can cause some dehydration. Make sure you are getting enough water, and of course, rest. Plenty of rest. It may only be a small set-back.

I notice how often you post for others here. Glad everyone finally noticed your request for help.


[ 19. January 2007, 01:39 AM: Message edited by: clairenotes ]
Posted by tothepoorhouse (Member # 8595) on : off topic but I need to THANK YOU!!

I was scheduled to fly from Philly to Arizona on Sunday -- a 6 hour flight!!! Then work non-stop at a conference for 3 days!! Then fly home for 5 hours.

After seeing your post, and feeling so pained and sick right now, I decided NOT to be a hero and tell my boss I CANNOT do this trip at this time due to medical issues.

My husband knew I couldn't do it and so did I. I just wanted to not appear weak to the company.

Well, **** that. My health is too important. If I get fired, so be it. [Frown]
Posted by TNJanet (Member # 10031) on :
Hello Dana,
I returned from a 5 hour trip to my LLMD (took three days and 2 nights in motel) and am still cowering in my home, not wanting to see anyone

or hear any noise. It was really the most difficult trip I've done in a while and I think it's because I am just plain ole sick!

Anyway, I thought I would add to what has been suggested here. I read a lot about a body cleanse (detox) that got a very high recommendation by some herbal practitioners.

The name of the product is Enuvia. You can Google the name and will easily find it. It consists of one 30 day treatment for the colon (pills), next one 30 day treatment for the liver, followed by one 30 day treatment for the kidneys.

I want to use this product but my LLMD is asking me to wait until we can get my toxic load down a bit with ABX, whenever that will be and also treat my very overtaxed immune system. He is in

favor of garlic, the allicin type as I remember. Just thought I would throw this in the mix. And PLEASE know that nothing you ever write is ignored. Sometimes, a thread gets buried pretty

quickly and no one is ignoring you intentionally. If you post and get no answer, do what you did, post again on the same thread and it will then get it back up to the top.

Wishing you all the best,
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
Hi Dana,

I failed to see your post too. I think Betty is right about Medical being too jammed up with research and reports. Great info but maybe needs its own spot.

My doctor has me on a green drink called Pure Synergy. It is so nutrient rich. Google it and read about the man who created it.

This drink is not a quick fix pain reliever but rather a longterm body builder. I will probably drink it the rest of my life. My doctor has me on 2 tbsps daily and I drink one in the morning and one at night.

Warning: It takes like algae water from your fish tank. Some people mix it with juice. I just drink it in water and have finally reached a point it no longer tastes bad. Still doesn't taste good either.

You might want to give this one a try.

Posted by Michelle M (Member # 7200) on :
Hi Dana. I was nursing a sick daughter yesterday and missed your post.

You're such an inspiration and a constant poster of help to others. So don't even imagine LymeNetters not giving a hoot about you. I guarantee 'taint so!

I got nuthin for ideas, 'cept you need to rest. Sounds like that was quite a whirlwind of a trip and a huge expenditure of energy. Just goin to town yesterday (25 miles) wore me out so much I almost fell asleep driving, and needed sleep ASAP when I finally parked. So I imagine stress plus exhaustion took a real toll on you.

Anyway, lacking a better idea, I got hugs!!

[group hug] [group hug] [group hug]

Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
Just wanted to say sorry for being being way too over sensitive because of the responces. I am not usually like this at all & hope you can forgive me.

You all have been nothing but kind, thoughtful & caring. I can only suppose its the disease talking.

WOW, Thanks again for all your very helpful suggestions about herbs! and for the info about GI issues and for the mastic gumm idea.

Thanks JillE
for the reccomendation of also of the mastic gum. I did try this before for aprox 4 months. I have extra's so it wouldn't hurt to go back on it.

Thanks for the tiger & being so sweet. Hopefully I will bounce back. Its been 9 days since I got back & hopefully I'll bounce instead of falling down.
But what has me worried the most is as the days go on I am getting some of the old symptoms back ..with the exhaustion-brain fog,restless leggs, body aches, shakie,weakness,speach is slipping,dizzy, off balance among others.. it worries me. Really hope I just need more rest.

Sorry to hear your trip was so hard & hope you can bounce back too.Thanks so much for your info on the detox and the clense-Enuvia.Will have goodle. Hope you also can feel better soon too.

thanks for posting & letting me know that the thread helped. That trip does sound like a killer. I can imagine it must be hard to say no to an employer & I pray they will understand

Thanks for sharing your very helpful info on flying. Am going to try & push more water

Thanks for the info on garlic. I read your fab thread about your garlic juicer. keep on feeling better!

Thanks so for sharing the info on ginger & rife. I had no idea you could rife detox frequencies. Can you post a few of your freqencies? I have an EMEM3D machine from rife labs, I think I will try twice a week now. Can you mix herbs & rife?

Thanks for posting. The hernia clinic is called "Hernia Center of Southern California" in Pasadena CA > He was in twilight for surgury. They use a special "no tension surgury" with special mess instead of internal stitches.My hubby researched this & was his choice where to get his surgury.PM me if you want more info on it.

thanks so much for your timely post on synergy. I will google it later. Good to hear its helping ya.

Michelle M
I am so sorry to hear your daughter is sick & hope she can feel better soon. I have come to realize how difficult it is to take care of someone you love when you are so sick your self. hang in there

Thanks again for all your posts and I appreciate it more than words can say. Hopefully I will bounce back & this is only a temporay speed bump in the road.

Blessings to you all

[ 19. January 2007, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: 5dana8 ]
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :

Here is a link to the CAFL. You may already have this list but it contains all of the Detox frequencies. I cannot vouch for the effectiveness because we did not use these very often. I think you have to run single frequencies on your EMEM. I would just try two or three at a time until you feel it is helping.

We are going to try some of the Mycoplasma frequencies. I will let you know if they have any effect.

I hope you improve soon.

D Bergy
Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
hi D Bergy

Thanks so much for adding the information about the deotx frequencies and the CALF link.

Funny but it never occured to me to rife for anything other than lyme, co's & yeast. Must be my lyme brain

Good luck with the mycoplasma frequencies

Thanks again & blessings

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