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Originally posted by sixgoofykids:
Can oxygenating your blood with cardio cause a herx? Maybe it would be better to start with some weights instead of cardio. Or even a brisk walk. The elliptical is a tough exercise.

Hope you feel better soon. Take it easy, talk to some friends.

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I dont know if this is always a herx, or if its just agravated inflamation.

I can actually feel my brain swelling. That night after my 10 minutes work out, I got a dull then bad headache.

I have had headaches from my first major biaxin herx, hence my name.

Im still on the fence.
 

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Posted by tothepoorhouse (Member # 8595) on :
 
crap.....this disease really does want us to just lay down and die, doesn't it?

Looking forward to the rife treatement and IFR sauna to kill those danged spiros.
 

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Posted by lymeHerx001 (Member # 6215) on :
 
By the way, I was using the sauna and it was working. In this gym the sauna broke and they havent fixed it yet!

What gets me is I can climb stairs 3 times a day at work (a school) with no big problems.

It seems that its the continuous movement that did it.

At work its always stop and go and then sit...
 

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Posted by Jon (Member # 9123) on :
 
Hey my head feels realy spaced out and i really get the "swelling up" feelings the moment i start exercising... NOt fun!
 

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Posted by nancyf723 (Member # 7505) on :
 
I can't exercise without paying a price. I've tried a few times, but get knocked down for days.

Here's my question, is this reaction a good thing? Is it a herx killing off spirochetes or just causing undue stress?
 

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Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
 
Exercise increases free radicals!

Free radicals are good AND bad. They DO help us to fight infections. We need oxygen to live, but the free radicals produced can be really harmful.

Vitamin E should help...esp. gamma E. The problem very well maybe peroxynitrite as the superoxide free radical reacting with NO can convert to this dangerous damaging product.

http://web.mit.edu/noppg/peroxynitrite.htm

Our stores (in fat) of vitamin E drop in lyme. This has been documented in Pubmed.

Jarrow formulas makes gamma E, but it contains all the tocopherols.

Alpha only helps with anti-inflammatory. Gamma looks to work as an anti-oxidant. We don't know how beta and delta function.
 

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Posted by wenan (Member # 10993) on :
 
I'm sorry you are having such a rough time. I find the emotional stuff that this throws at me is worse than any of it. I have become a fan of electrolyte formulas and the cell salts.

It is the only thing that I can say absolutely is helping me. The saunas were fantastic but I was doing them too often without nourishing the cells (that's the way I see it).

I use Design for Health's Electrolyte Synergy and Hyland's Bioplasma. I noticed a difference within 2 hours. For what it's worth, maybe it might bring you some light in all of this. Remember, you are not alone.
 

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Posted by nicolette (Member # 8133) on :
 
Is there anyone out there who has struggled like all of us with post-exercise pain/fatigue/headaches that has ever successfully gotten back to exercising?
 

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Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by BOEJR:
sixgoofkids, to answer your question... Yep.

BB does not thrive in an oxygen enriched envioroment. That is why some use hyperbaric oxygen to treat it.

It does not like the heat either, that is why some use infared sauna etc.

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This is interesting. For the past 5 years I lifted weights and did 40 minutes of the elliptical, until last August when I had to stop doing the cardio because of a lack of stamina. This was before I knew I had Lyme, which I've had for over 30 years.

From the beginning, I always thought that it was the exercise that kept me from getting sicker than I am. Now, I have no energy and just lay around all the time, but I still go to the gym to lift weights.

I'd bet that a good exercise program after Lyme treatment is a good way to continue to stay healthy.

I also use a far infrared sauna. I love my sauna! It made me feel bad in the beginning though.

Lymeherx, if you can walk the stairs at work, maybe you should do 2 minutes of the elliptical, then rest, then another two minutes. Maybe it's the constant exercise that hurts so bad. I'd still start out with a brisk walk and maybe some weights.
 

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Posted by lymeHerx001 (Member # 6215) on :
 
Marnie,

Are you advocating E for preventing post-excersise inflamation?

Or for soaking up these free radicals?

I have tried time and time again, various dosages and forms of Mg as to see if this would help.

It has not.

What helped me last night was taking 2 benadryll with my ambien, thats all.

I think that the anti-choenergic attributes of diphenhydramine is beneficial in this respect.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, taking Choline, or Piracetam or Aniracetam leads to anxiety and worsening of my brain fog.
This is strange because it used to have to opposite effect.

I feel as if maybee part of my choinergic system is hyper vigilant?

I didnt mention that after excersise my muscles get so tight and I feel as if they dont "turn off"
As if they are locked in the on position.

Years ago (while still sick pre-diag though) I would work out hard for a full hour, be drenched in sweat and 3 hours later I would fall asleep like a baby.
 

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Posted by DolphinLady (Member # 6275) on :
 
If I over exercise I experience depression too. What helps me is lots of rest and detoxing.
 

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Posted by EWT1638 (Member # 11315) on :
 
Question for Tothepoorhouse:' Infrared-sauna" kills what?
Everybody has so many different things they try, it can make my head swim! What has worked to make you feel better?

Blessings!
 

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Posted by lymeHerx001 (Member # 6215) on :
 
Just too add fire to the fuel,

I worked out on the elyptical again 2 days ago and that night I couldnt sleep. Neck was stiff, was anxious and muscles ached. Its like my brain didnt shut off.

I was doing good EVERY DAY on the sit down bike.

Again I have been working out EVERY DAY for at least 30 minutes or more at heart rate 130. I have not felt that bad from it.

When I did the elyptical it was all down hill.
No pun intended.
 

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Posted by EyeBob (Member # 12572) on :
 
This is interesting because I too am trying to figure out whether my exercise is benenficial or not. When I ride, I get a head ache after. Either several hours or the next couple of days.

I am planning on beating this f-ing disease and returning to competitive cycling.

Is the exercise herx good or bad? I'm of two minds. I'm conditioned to think that pain is bad so avoid it. I'm hearing from some of you that it's a form of a herx, so that must mean good things.

What's the thinking here? Is the headache after a herx or overdoing it? Should I too continue to work out or not?

BT
 

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Posted by kam (Member # 3410) on :
 
I do what I can when I can.

No control on when I can do what and for how long.

I am still learning to try and listen to my body and work with it.

It is great when I have those moments of being almost normal.

It is not so great when I try to make myself do something simple and normal. I pay for it for several days.

It works for me to be in the therapy pool with lights off and all fans and other sounds off. quiet.

But, you add the lights and noise and my body and mind shut down on me.

It works for me to have 2 min of an exercise...any longer and it starts to defeat the point...to the point of throwing up and not being able to make the next session.

Some movements are easier for my brain than others.

It is a learning curve and I am a slow learner right now.

I wish I could make that head stuff or chemical change in the brain go away too.

But, I have learned to try and not get there.
 

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Posted by bejoy (Member # 11129) on :
 
"Is there anyone out there who has struggled like all of us with post-exercise pain/fatigue/headaches that has ever successfully gotten back to exercising?"

Yes.

You might want to take a look at the discussion thread on mitochondria and energy.

I used to crash hard the day after I tried to exercise even a little.

I was able to start exercising regularly again, doing a half hour of weight lifting and fifteen minutes of cardio, immediately after starting a mitochondria rebuilding protocol. (It took me about three weeks to build up to taking all the supps.)

The exception is when herxing hard from starting a new bug killer, or if I have lost a lot of sleep.
 

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Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
 
the title read that someone committed suicide! boy did you get my attention


may i suggest you edit to:

exercised 10 minutes, suicidal feelings now

now we understand your post!

how to edit: click pencil icon to right of your name, and it opens up subject line and body text. make your changes, and click edit send; you are done!


GLAD you survived! if you still have my newbie package pages; page one shows the 24/7 HOTLINE SUICIDE NUMBER, please put this by your telephones should you have another occurrence of this happen. we care about you!
 

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Posted by tailz (Member # 10014) on :
 
I did this, too - before I knew EMFs were the problem. Please check out the threads here on electromagnetic pollution, cell phones, and wireless.

Some of us 'conduct' due to electromagnetic frequencies. I think it is caused by excess iron and/or copper in the brain from one of these bugs.

Manmade EMFs cause the bugs and toxins to cross the blood-brain barrier, too. I'm sure that equipment was giving off tons of it.
 

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Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
 
LymeHerx, did your heart rate get higher with the elliptical, or was it the same as when you did the other cardio? I'm curious ... I wonder why that exercise would cause a problem, but not the other.

Since this thread was started back in March, I am still lifting weights and on good days am up to 30 minutes on the elliptical, but at the lowest level.

I also go on family bike rides with hubby and the kids on the local bike trail ... that is not at a rigorous pace.

BT, the Dr. B guidelines say to exercise, but not to do cardio until the stamina returns ... to instead use resistance training.

I'm doing cardio on my good days, but if I start a new med or am herxing, I just do the weights. This seems to work for me.

Pushing myself to do the cardio always has bad results, so I don't do it if I'm feeling bad.

Bejoy, I take NT Factor, which is supposed to help the mitochondria, too. I started feeling relief from the crushing fatigue, so what you're saying is true for me, too.
 

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Posted by lymeHerx001 (Member # 6215) on :
 
Ok Ill edit it. Obviously I didn't commit suicide because Im still here all smiles.

EyeBob, headaches after exercise are very common for me, in fact I get a toxic feeling after exercise.

SixGoofyKids, my heart rate was about the same on the elliptical. I tend to monitor and not push it too high.

With weights I always got a jittery feeling like my cortisol was too high.

I think whats going on here is that the elliptical could be stimulating my lymph system and dumping toxins, or, the upper body work is taxing too many muscles and this in turn is leading to too much inflamation and my brain is swelling.
 

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Posted by locdog (Member # 10372) on :
 
I've been told that weight lifting is better because of the cardio oxygenating your blood.

But Since I have started treatment (about 9 months now) I have started doing both cardiio and weights at LEAST once a week each and it helps me with the fatigue and general deppresive A-Motivational symptoms enormously.

The key is to keep a routine with it and STICK TO IT!

Otherwise it will seem like a chore and the herx will happen everytime.

As far as the heat I live in AZ and it regularly reaches 115 or more and i jog outside and lift in my garage and haven't noticed any real difference in the lyme do to heat.
 

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Posted by GenaD (Member # 11988) on :
 
I lifted weights for years--now it's not so consistent--but it does help me with fatigue and depression.

I always had a hard time with cardio and felt like I had asthma during it--and experienced a headache during and after.

Cardio does NOT help me--my LLMD said no cardio for me!
 

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Posted by lymeHerx001 (Member # 6215) on :
 
Wow Gena, this is news for me.

Actually my LLMD always recomends running outside in the heat.

I never like to run because I have so much foot pain. Maybee Ill try it to savor the summer.

But yes, Im aching now from the cardio. I had this a couple years ago too. I would do fine for a week with excercise and then crash!
 

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Posted by GenaD (Member # 11988) on :
 
Yeah, it's all confusing, because there seems to be differing opinions about cardio. Everyone seems to agree that weight-training is good, though.

I have a pretty bad case of Babesia, so maybe that's why my LLMD said no cardio. I always feel like I'm going to pass out and like my head is going to blow up when I do anything cardiovascular for more than a few minutes.

Also, I am low on something that creates and opens capillaries--so maybe my LLMD didn't like cardio for that reason.
 

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Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
 
Gena, that makes a lot of sense about the babs. I used to be more intolerant of the cardio, and now I can do some. I have been on babs treatment for six months and my babs specific symptoms only occur now during a herx.

I use the elliptical machine that doesn't use arms ... maybe using the handles instead of all the arm motion would help. Or, use the arms for just a few minutes. Maybe you've disturbed enough bugs in your lower body that you can tolerate the exercise there, but you're disturbing too many bugs in your upper body causing a herx.
 

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Posted by listenswithcare (Member # 10719) on :
 
For me, the elliptical is much harder to do than the sit down bike. Perhaps it is because it is more weight bearing. My leg muscles get a bigger workout. My knees are not so good, so I don't do "hills" on the bike. That is why I like the elliptical.

As I read through these posts, I thought of these things:

- once I stopped exercising completely for a few months (all I was doing was walking) on the advice of a chinese herbalist I was seeing. In retrospect, I think this was very bad advice. We need to keep our bodies moving in what ever fashion we can or it makes things worse and harder to come back from.

- Electrolytes when you exercise or sweat. An absolute must. Prevents or staves off that headache for me. Hydration, Hydration.

- Epsom salt baths after exercise - more detoxing and magnesium to boot!

- Yes, I have been able to exercise again after not being able to do much more than walk and stretch. Long road. Good physical therapist needed. Much support (massage, chiro, whatever).

- rest after exercise (Dr. B uses the term "enforced rest"). Not that night in bed, right after if possible.

- exercise earlier in the day - to prevent that jazzed up feeling going into the night.

- go slower, but go.

- cardio used to be fine for me. Now in relapse and treatment, my stamina is not so great, so cardio is not so good for me. Just listen to your body.

I hope you recover from this round soon. I hate not being able to do things, it makes me feel even worse, really.

Robin
 

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