I am being treated by a LLMD right now but I have also added in a DOM (doctor of oriental medicine)
He has been giving me IV glutathione w/ magnesium and b vitamins. He would also like to try some IV hydrogen peroxide on me as well to kill off any yeast and put a little hurt on the lyme and any co infections I may have. He is an expert at it and he treats cancer patients and people that have had no luck with infectious disease doctors.
What do you guys think??? Have any of you done it, what were your experiences?
Posted by Health (Member # 6034) on :
I would not do anything until consulting with your LLMD. You are on antibiotics, and an interaction with something else can
sometimes be very serious.
Your LLMD is your primary DR now is he not? he is the one that you need to ask about this, to be safe, this is what I would do.
I increased my antibiotics on my own without asking the LLMD, I ran into serious trouble because I was also on another antibiotic.
I will never do this again, before asking.
LLMD's have reasons behind things I have found, so I would consult with your LLMDS.
Trish
Posted by ByronSBell 2007 (Member # 11496) on :
MY LLMD and DOM are working together... I think I will get off ABX a week or two before I do the hydrogen peroxide
Posted by AZURE WISH (Member # 804) on :
hydrogen peroxide sounds kinda scary to me. But that is me.
Have you researched if it has possible side effects?
Posted by ByronSBell 2007 (Member # 11496) on :
I havn't researched the side effects but he said he is very good with it and knows how to do it properly. He told me it is one of the only things they use in Asia to treat infections caused by pathogens, bacteria, viruses, parasites, ect. He has also healed 3 lyme patients with them and alot of syphilus patients in china since it is such a big problem there.
Posted by antsettler (Member # 7236) on :
in spain some cronic fatigue syndrome and fybromialgya patients use blood infusions of peroxide and ozone, i meet some case of feel better, but they continue ill; are some articles of ozonated oil for bowel infections;
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
i would never, ever do a hydrogen peroxide iv period.
my doc said it destroys the veins.
no way, absolutely not.....
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
glutathione, mag and b vitamin IV sounds great.
hydrogen peroxide, however, no, not so much. i wouldn't do it, but that's just me.
Posted by LisaS (Member # 10581) on :
I have not done this myself but I have a friend who's LLMD treated her with a peroxide iv. She did it a couple times. She said it helped a little but nothing long term.
Posted by mag (Member # 8920) on :
Byron,
people use hydrogen peroxide on their skin search the board - there was a recent post...
i would not do hydrogen peroxide via IV - too many risks for me and ...
if your stomach is okay- Do you really need to have magnesium and vit IV?
I hope you and the LLMD come up with the right decision
take care
mags
Posted by Health (Member # 6034) on :
I dont know who your LLMD is, but I have never heard of taking Biaxin every 2-3 days.
EVER.
You cannot just stop antibiotics for one week to do IV. Who is your LLMD?
Antibiotics can be dangerous if you take them off and on, it will create hell in your body and you wont get better, from all that I read.
Anyone else? have you heard of taking Biaxin every 2-3 days?
Is this a new way to treat?
Lyme is serious business, and antibiotics are serious stuff, you cant take them off and on, from all that I read.
I am not wanting to put you down, just dont know where you are getting this treatment from.
Never heard treating like this before.
Anyone else think this is dangerous?
ALSO, I read on here some had many IV Hydrogen Peroxides and it did not kill lyme, they still got sicker. I think Wildcondor on here did them, many and she did not get better from them. Seek her out and ask her.
Trish
Posted by antsettler (Member # 7236) on :
ozone and peroxide don't enter in cells for kill intracelular bugs, and exhaust vitamins and minerals; the articles about ozonated oil and intestinal infection are with bacterias with extracelullar toxins that cause diarrea
Posted by ByronSBell 2007 (Member # 11496) on :
My LLMD said it is fine. My DOM is also one of Lance Armstrongs doctors and is his and his bike team's nutritionist as well.
My LLMD is also fine with taking an antibiotic every 2-3 days. It is called pulsing and is actaully easier on the body than taking it everyday, besides... the herxes would kill me literally if I took everyday.
Posted by antsettler (Member # 7236) on :
here are serious doctors with ozone and peroxide, doctors of hospitals of reference, is a sure tecnic, but they use it for joint and column problems, coadjuvant to surgery;
others (blood infusions, subcutaneus inj) are more for 'general health', not specific treatments; i imagine that not exist doctor that can risk making a bad practice, but think that if you are ill your antioxidant systems is weak;
if you feel well can be in example for coagulation (i'm feel very good when inject me heparin); i hope be a good therapy but you are ill and is better verified things
Posted by Boomerang (Member # 7979) on :
Byron, which doc of Lance's have you seen? My bro saw those guys with his cancer treatment. I think the guys were Nicholls (sp?) and Einhorn.
Which one looks like Woody Allen? I can't remember which was which....... Heehee.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Bb is H2O2 resistant. Knock off yeast with 4 coconut oil capsules. Source Naturals makes them.
Need the link?
The other nutrients ARE good. But even more are needed.
Ozone SAUNAS (head OUT...do NOT breathe) DO seem to be very effective.
And far infrared saunas raises cAMP.
Bb is using PFK to trigger glycolysis...the breakdown of fructose for energy.
We make way too little energy via that pathway.
Your cells do not have enough energy.
Contrary to what one would think.
Look at the glycolysis pathway. See step #1 and what INHIBITS this breakdown and INSTEAD promotes glycogen release.
I posted the "particulars" under "VERY VERY ODD".
Posted by pmerv (Member # 1504) on :
"Hydrogen peroxide does participate in the bactericidal processes within activated phagocyte cells. But when it escapes from the cells into the adjacent extracellular space during the inflammatory process, it becomes a major contributor to the tissue damage seen in lung disease, malignancies, and hemolysis. The presence of pharmacological concentrations of hydrogen peroxide in the blood is clearly a double-edged sword which can easily cause as much harm as it can cause good." (Green)
"The amount of oxygen contained in the few cubic centimeters of peroxide included in Donsbach's 4-hour intravenous infusions is less than the amount in a single deep breath of air." (Barrett)
"Oral hydrogen peroxide would automatically be ineffective since all of the hydrogen peroxide would be eliminated in the stomach forming water and inert gaseous oxygen which would then be lost in burping or passing flatus. No effect would occur in the body." (Personal)
"In 1988, the U.S. Postal Service issued Donsbach a cease and desist order to stop him from claiming that the hydrogen peroxide used orally or intravenously is effective against cancer or arthritis, or that it is fit for human consumption." (U.S. Congress)
Hydrogen peroxide is a treatment provided by the Bio-Genesis Clinic in Mexico. However, "instead of presenting the public with sound, verifiable, scientific research and conclusions, clinics such as Bio-Genesis seem to rely more heavily on testimonials from former patients as their proof." (DuBois)
Toxicity / Risks
"Hydrogen peroxide can be harmful, causing toxic reactions if taken internally in excessive amounts or as an undiluted preparation." (Cassileth)
"A continuous infusion of peroxide that results in 0.01 volume per 100 ml blood can cause an arterial gas embolism [sudden blocking of an artery] and irreversible lung damage. That such adverse reactions do occur is clear from reports in the medical literature. These incidents include: oxygen gas emboli, necrosis [the sum of the morphological changes indicative of cell death], and gangrene following peroxide enemas or colonic lavage [washing out of the colon]; emphysema [accumulation of air in tissues or organs] following peroxide mouthwash or gargle; and ulcerative colitis [inflammation of the colon], gas embolism, and emphysema following deep wound irrigation. Peroxide ingestion results in respiratory arrest, seizures, gas embolism in the portal circulation, shock, and acute hemolysis [disruption of red blood cell membrane causing release of hemoglobin]. Stroke and multiple cerebral infarcts and venous embolism follow irrigation of anal fistula [one opening on the cutaneous surface of the anus] and irrigation of surgical wounds." (Green)
"H2O2 must be diluted sufficiently or it may cause chemical burns. H2O2 often cause nausea when taken orally." (Ontario)
"Thirty-five percent hydrogen peroxide is commercially available as an oxidant and disinfectant. This solution is currently sold and promoted in health food stores in th United States as a means of 'improving oxygenation' in people with coronary artery disease and other health problems. Our findings show the high toxicity of concentrated hydrogen peroxide. CNS [central nervous system] damage and death are likely consequences after ingestion of this agent." (Ashdown)
"Promoters of hydrogen peroxide tend to downplay its potential for harm . ... In fact, however, during the past three years, six children have been seriously poisoned and one died as a result of accidentally drinking the concentrated solution stored in their refrigerator. The product in the fatal case had been obtained by mail order as an alternative medicine. A near-fatal case of ingestion by an adult also has been reported." (CA)
"The present study clearly demonstrates that H2O2 acts as a carcinogen. Reactive oxygen intermediates have been reported to induce single-strand breaks in cellular DNA, oxidation of DNA bases, chromosomal aberrations, and DNA-protein cross-links." (Okamoto)
Posted by AZURE WISH (Member # 804) on :
Please don't expect a dr to tell you all the risks - very few are that honest.
Has your llmd given you any suggestions on how to detox better
Or are you already doing things to detox and still having bad herxes off the amount of abx you are taking?
Also are you taking probotics?
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
Trish, you said antibiotics can be hell and not to take them off and on.
My doc has said if a herx gets so bad I feel like going to the ER then stop for a few days, then pick up again.
Is this wrong then? He feels that if I am getting that critically ill from a herx, then it's better to back off, than end up in the ER..
I've heard others mention backing off then going back on.
So is this bad???
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by randibear: My doc has said if a herx gets so bad I feel like going to the ER then stop for a few days, then pick up again.
Is this wrong then? He feels that if I am getting that critically ill from a herx, then it's better to back off, than end up in the ER..
I've heard others mention backing off then going back on.
So is this bad???
I did this for 4 yrs and lived to tell about it!!!! I'm in remission.
[I did not pulse....just backed off the meds when herxing too hard.]
PS....Byron has the same LLMD that I did.
Posted by ByronSBell 2007 (Member # 11496) on :
I am detoxing with epsom salt baths, glutathione drips, and lemon water. Nothing really helps. I have been tested for metals several different ways and they are all in the normal range. I'm almost bound for doom!
Posted by AZURE WISH (Member # 804) on :
I know some people have these foot patches they use on their feet to detox...
I think they are called podi patches. You might want to do a search on here for them.
if it sounds interesting you could ask your dr abuot using them.
Posted by Health (Member # 6034) on :
I dont know what is the right way to treat, I only know how I am being treated and also what I read. I dont know Dr C, but others do,
I dont understand how you can though, stop antibiotics when a herx happens, and say this is 5 days, then resume antibiotics again, then stop again if the herx is too strong, and
resume again, eery so often. From all I read, the antibiotics should not be taken this way, this makes the antibitoic resistant bugs, which would
be the lyme, and whatever else.
Would it not be a better way to treat, to lower the dose of antibiotics and take it continuosly?
or, I was told that you can stop the antibiotics, for 2 days, and the bacteria would not be resistnat when you start.
If Dr C is treating this way, and others are getting well, then I would say it works.z He is the LLMD, I am not,
It is good to share, that his works, but I would also like to know HOW Dr C would know that this is safe, is there something to back this up?
I did read though that Dr B says you can pulse with high dose IV, the more toxic medications, for 4 days or so, then back off, this is
because they are toxic,
you wonder though, that once you start again, isnt the bacteria a little resistant to it?
I can say though, that I found that the Biaxin was NOT as effective when I stopped it for over a week, then restarted it, becaue I could not
get a hold of my LLMD to give me more. I experienced this, it was real, so, that is all I can say.
So now, I try to not stop the antibiotics if possible, this is me. If things are bad, i call the LLMD and see what he says.
One time, I had to, for 2 weeks, as I was almost dead from the herx.
There are others that know more then me, so they may come along, I dont know it all, just keep reading and learning and experiencing, good and bad.
Trish
Posted by Health (Member # 6034) on :
Byron,
How long have you had lyme?
I have had it a long time, 15 years untreated, then started to treat. I had to go slow with antibiotics, but not as slow as you. Babesia treatment I had to go SLOW, 1/4 cap a day and work up, this was tough,
I thought you only had it a year or so, then started to treat?
I am trying to figure out if the ones that have to go slow are the ones that have had it for years untreated, so that the lyme then
is really bad, so you have to go slow to kill because there is SO much in you, and the detox organs can only handle so much.
Trish
Posted by AZURE WISH (Member # 804) on :
I think what you have to remember is that lyme effects us differently and our systems handle it living and dying in us differently then you add
in the fact of who has what coinfections or secondary issues stronger or weaker immune systems there is no one rule for everyone when it comes to lyme.
For me if I go off abx a few days I get much much worse. I can not pulse but that is me and many others do not have this problem.
You also have to remember that some symptoms that people have normally that could get worse during a herx are very serious
like heart issues, siezures, breathing difficulties ect...
Killing the lyme is good but the drs must make sure they do not jeopordize the patient's life
I wish there was one easy answer to fix us all but it seems we each have to help our drs figure out what works for us
Posted by ByronSBell 2007 (Member # 11496) on :
I was only sick for a little over a year before I started treatment... Something has got to be worng with me if I can only take Biaxin/Plaquenil once every 3 days. That is what I keep telling my parents! I say most everyone on here can tolerate higher doses of antibotics than I can!?! If I take too much I end up on the ER or on the floor in screaming pain for days! I dont have yeast problems, I dont have any metals, I take probiotics and yogurt daily. I wonder if I just have a really hard time detoxing or something...?
Posted by Health (Member # 6034) on :
Byron,
Yes, that does sound odd. However, I knew a man that lives near me, that has had lyme as long as me, that could always do the high dose antibiotics.
Here I was on half the dosage. Even with babesia treatment I was at a much lower dosage then he.
Maybe do a seperate post and find out if anyone else that has had lyme about a year has to go as slow as you. Maybe there is some reason we dont know yet.
Some say that there may be a problem with detoxing for some of us, it is written in the book Mold Warriors I think, not sure.
One can go half crazy not knowing, yet feels there is something wrong, but there may not be, good to keep looking. I found some good info in Dr B's guidlines, but I dont think he
mentions this.
ALSO, not sure if you keep a journal while in treatment with lyme. I find this to be the best thing I ever did. I can go back and find out
what I did, and so on.
Also, it can help pinpoint things you are trying to find out that has NOT happened to anyone else.
Trish
Posted by ByronSBell 2007 (Member # 11496) on :
I have been keeping a journal and pain charts, they are looking alot worse after starting lyme treatment!
I have a Doctor of Oriental medicine that is going to try 12 IV glutathione IV's once every other week and he has me on some supplements. I go see my LLMD first week of May, hopefully we can figure something out and why I am not healing!
Posted by diana (Member # 7466) on :
I saw a well known ND here in the Vancouver area a few years ago. IV hydrogen peroxide was what he recommended for treatment. I did some research and could not find one person who said it was helpful, most would not even try it. I did speak to someone who's father tried it for lyme and it didn't help. I would look at other options!
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