I stumbled across this while looking for info on lyme and ammonia. If this is true, (and I don't know for sure that it is) it could explain a lot!
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_285/ai_n19170382 An astonishing new finding was released by John Travis in Science News (July 2003;164). Travis reported that research performed by John F. Prescott found that certain antibiotics, such as the fluoroquinolones, the class of antibiotics that includes the name-brands and generic brands of Levaquin[R], Cipro[R], Tequin[R], and Avelox[R], actually are known to trigger a type of virus called bacteriophages (viruses that can infect bacteria) to change the genetic sequencing of the bacteria, causing the bacterium they have infected to start producing toxins. These viruses can act as genetic delivery vans, invading bacteria, such as spirochetes, often lying dormant, until activated by a change in the host (your body's) environment. Once activated, these viruses insert their toxin-generating genes into the bacterial chromosomes. These viruses can turn basically harmless bacterium into killers through this genetic sequencing of toxins (Travis 2003).
Posted by painted turtle (Member # 7801) on :
Hi TerryK,
I don't know at all of the validitiy or the accuracy of this experiment. I've heard of an experiment made by scientist to check this, and discussed antibiotics with my dermatologist a couple weeks ago.
He mentioned that there was this study done and that it proved above, but he also said there was a flaw in its design, so again...
Inconclusive.
But my personal opinion is that these antibiotics can indeed create a havoc environment which could lead to further problems like cancers.
At the same time, when neurolyme and company are at hand...there is often no choice but to take the antibiotics unless you are allergic to them all. When neurolyme and company get to be so far into you, it's as deadly as cancer.
My thoughts about it. My dr. does say it is the VIRUS that lead to the cancer though, kind of like this study says, if I understand it.
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
1: J Mol Microbiol Biotechnol. 2000 Oct;2(4):365-73. Related Articles, Links
Bacteriophages of spirochetes.
Eggers CH, Casjens S, Hayes SF, Garon CF, Damman CJ, Oliver DB, Samuels DS.
Division of Biological Sciences, The University of Montana, Missoula 59812, USA.
Historically, a number of bacteriophage-like particles have been observed in association with members of the bacterial order Spirochetales, the spirochetes. In the last decade, several spirochete bacteriophages have been isolated and characterized at the molecular level. We have recently characterized a bacteriophage of the Lyme disease agent, Borrelia burgdorferi, which we have designated phiBB-1. Here we review the history of the association between the spirochetes and their bacteriophages, with a particular emphasis on phiBB-1 and its prophage, the 32-kb circular plasmid family of B. burgdorferi.
Until very recently there was no known bacteriophage that targeted Borrelia. Therefore there was no known mechanism of lateral gene transfer during the bacteria's life span. It has now been determined that the bacteriophage phiBB-1, targets Borrelia burgdorferi, and that lateral gene transfer does in fact occur (Eggers et al.). Eggers et al., the authors of the paper on the newly discovered phage, suggest the the role of the phage within the infectious cycle of Borrelia burgdorferi ought to be investigated, as it might contribute to the virulence of the bacteria.
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
Interesting info from your doctor. Thanks for sharing that.
There may be only a few abx that cause this. I personally think that abx are most likely necessary in many cases but if we know that they trigger these viruses, then maybe something can be done to mitigate that effect. There may be other triggers besides abx. Herbals could be triggers too. So much is unknown. This just makes it seem even more important to detox.
Terry
Posted by lymebytes (Member # 11830) on :
The first thing I noticed at the top of the link you provided was David Jernigan's name. He is the author of "Beating Lyme Disease: Using Alternative Medicine and God-Designed Living"
He does not believe in the use of antibiotics and has his own line of natural protocols.
Hmmm............
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
I don't find an article about lyme. I find this one about strep and dogs:
It's very interesting but I think what it's saying is that under selective pressure (antibiotics) some genetic changes will occur that cause bacteria to produce a much higher load of endotoxin.
I suppose you could genetically engineer a bacterium (ie SLYME) to do this and render it far more debilitating. Thus naturally occuring borrelia and bioengineered borrelia (imo) are different. Maybe it's true of babesia as well etc.
But I don't think (I could be wrong) the original study suggests that by taking antibiotics you will change your infection to a highly toxin-producing one.
OTOH I do know some people who weren't doing all that badly until they realized they were infected with tickborne infections and when treating them, got so much sicker. So who knows.
[ 22. July 2007, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: oxygenbabe ]
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
Well, this is the first time I have heard about this but how interesting to note I was given Cipro in Sept of 2004 for what turned out to be shingles. I was on a cruise ship and the doctor wasn't sure what I had.
It was Nov 04 I came down with a very bad virus which set all my illness into motion. My husband and mother had the same virus so I don't think it was a new tickbite. However, they weren't nearly as sick as I was.
After that illness, the severe mental confusion began and 11 mths later, migratory joint pain.
Did Cipro cause this sickness?
Hhmmm
Luvs
Posted by mjo (Member # 7876) on :
This would help to explain the website I found once about people damaged by the floxacins/quinolones. Most were asymptomatic and became debilitated by this class of abx. Symptoms sure sounded like Lyme/neuroLyme but maybe they were experiencing more damage/sx from the release of toxins and the invasion of the ketes?
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
oxygenbabe could you please fix your link so that the screen is easier to read? Thanks!
lymebytes - good points. Doesn't mean the info is not worth looking at but I would view it with caution. He may be making wild assumptions or maybe he has other info that I haven't found? In any case, I wouldn't proceed in making decisions based on this information.
Seems like there are several kinds of bacteriophages. Some eat bacteria and others live inside bacteria and cause toxins to be released and there are probably others that have not been discovered yet or that I haven't read about.
It looks like there is an association with certain abx and the harmful type of bacteriophages. There are not enough studies to know if there is a real danger or not and I doubt there ever will be since I don't see the drug companies paying for these studies and I don't see the government (who seems to cater to drug company interests) paying for one anytime soon either.
I think at this point there is no hard evidence to point to borrelia and certain abx causing this problem but I do have suspicions and I think it is possible. Also, oxygenbabe brought up the genetic engineering angle which I think is also a possibility.
I don't have access to the databases of medical studies that do not provide free access on the internet and I haven't spent a lot of time looking into this or looking for studies but it is intriguing and as others have pointed out, may explain some things that we see in those being treated with certain abx.
Terry
Posted by NP40 (Member # 6711) on :
I've also witnessed many times the effect viruses play in hindering lyme treatment. I believe this is often overlooked.
Mono, coxsackie and other nasty viruses will stop effective lyme treatment in it's tracks or at least slow it down considerably.
A good LL homeopath should be able to make some recommendations.
Posted by BartonFink (Member # 10818) on :
This makes perfect sense to me. I was pretty healthy before taking a quinolone antibiotic for an infection. Got very sick after the 1st pill. After that I gradually became weaker and sicker... and eventually some months later I learned I have Lyme.
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
I just saw this.... a little late, I guess.
The implications here are pretty huge.
The article is interesting, might explain a few things, contains some detox information I had not seen before.
Even though David Jernigan wrote the article, I don't think he had anything to do with the research that is the subject of this thread. So, in this case, I don't think I'll discard the information just because of the messenger. Posted by treepatrol (Member # 4117) on :
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