At our daughter's most recent appointment with her LLMD, he told us that he had been reading very positive reports about the effects of Moxifloxacin (Avelox) on Lyme bacteria when administered IV.
Our daughter has a PICC line and has been infusing Rocephin since June of 2006. We will be adding Avelox to her infusion protocol within the next two weeks.
I just thought some might be interested.
[ 23. July 2007, 02:19 AM: Message edited by: lymedad ]
Posted by charlie (Member # 25) on :
I think there can be tendonitis issues along with heart arrhythmia issues with any of the 'floxins'. Might want to read up on it, many use these with no problems though.
as for me the tendon pain from oral avelox as well as cipro made me back off, although I was able to complete the dose after a break.
Charlie
Posted by lymedad (Member # 8074) on :
Charlie,
thanks for the input, we'll watch for those side-effects.
Our daughter, Nicole, has a history of heart arrhythmia problems, it was one of the original symptoms of LD. We'll keep a close eye on her during the initial infusions.
Cipro is a tough antibiotic. Nicole was in the hospital a couple of years ago with Colitis and they had her on a Cipro drip. It was tough on her gut and it really set her Lyme treatment back.
I appreciate your input.
Posted by lymeflox (Member # 10543) on :
Lymedad:
Be sure that the very positive reports about the effects of Moxifloxacin (Avelox) on Lyme bacteria when administered IV that your LLMD has been reading, have not been written by researchers payed by the manufacturer of avelox.
I know it sounds strong, but the real thruth is that avelox has a very big potential of causing long lasting and permanent injuries, not to sensitive people but to anyone that takes it in high doses, long treatments or intravenously (IV). In october 2006 it has become mandatory to add to the package inserts of fluoroquinolones that they can cause (and they certainly do) irreversible nerve injuries.
The intoxication caused by avelox affects all body systems, like central nervous system (insomnia, restlessness, brain fog, anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts ...), peripheral nervous system (neuropathies, high and intractable pain, dry eye, muscle destruction..), autonomic nervous system (heart arrythmias, sometimes very severe, intestine, cold extremities) plus all the well known injuries and lesion in joints (tendinitis, osteoarthritis, cartilage destruction), in eyes (floaters, flashes, retinal degradation, halos, eye pain, photofobia,...) and increases enormously the risk of getting skin cancer if being exposed to direct sunlight. Add endocrine disorders (thyroid, cortisol, testosterone, growth hormone..) and dysclycemia (a diabetes-like glucose desregulation) and you have a fair picture.
To a certain degree (sometimes unoticeable) all treatments with fluoroquinolone antibiotics cause all the above disorders. Here you have an example that shows that any quinolone treatment cause guaranteed damage, although sometimes it is not perceived as such by the patient:
"The first reports of an association between fluoroquinolone antibiotics and tendonitis came from New Zealand and France in 1992."
"There have been many since and by 1994 the FDA had received 25 reports of tendon rupture. Seventeen of these were of Achilles tendons but shoulder and hand tendon rupture was also described. The age range was 33-85 years, and the tendon ruptures occurred at therapeutic doses at a range of two to 42 days after first dose. Of these 25 cases, 14 were also taking steroids and four occurred in people of advanced years, but in nine there were no other risk factors."
"Appropriately for a tendon problem, a prospective ultrasound study was conducted at the Hospital Universitaire Dupuytren [Limoges, France]. Some 23 subjects (15 female) were given a fluoroquinolone orally for two weeks. All had normal Achilles tendons at day 0. By day seven, 14 (61 per cent) had echographic tendonitis. Both sides were affected in seven, and two (7 per cent) were symptomatic."
"The ultrasound features were of hypoechogenicity (50 per cent), peri-tendous effusion (28 per cent) and tendon thickening (22 per cent). For a volunteer study in healthy controls, no ruptures occurred."
"The mechanism by which fluoro-quinolone antibiotics cause this problem is not clear. In animal studies, they can cause arthropathy. There is evidence of collagen depletion and disruption of the extracellular matrix. The antibiotics in this class available in New Zealand are ciprofloxacin and norfloxacin. They are best avoided in children, adolescents and pregnancy. Care should be taken when prescribing for those on steroids. If tendon pain develops, the antibiotic should be stopped and the patient advised to rest the limb and avoid exercise. Diagnostic ultrasound is the most convenient and cheapest way to prove the diagnosis.
The conclusions are almost obvious. When half of the treatment had been completed, 61% of the patients had injuries in their tendons, whereas all of them were healthy before. But only 7% were symptomatic. We can guess easily that probably by the end of the treatment, all volunteers had injured their tendons.
The same can be said about any other disorder.
This past week, on this very same forum, a lyme sufferer posted the outcome of the research done by a canadian university showing that in some cases fluoroquinolone antibiotics induce dormant virus to alter DNA of body bacteria, ending up in a full lyme-like reaction.
In fact it is almost impossible to discern among the clinical symptoms of the toxicity of fluoroquinolones (avelox is one of them) and the clinical symptoms of a negative-test lyme.
According to many well controlled experiences, treating lyme with fluoroquinolones means running an unaceptable risk of getting injured far more severely than the lyme illness itself.
The most important thing to remember is that the toxicity of fluoroquinolones is a delayed-onset type. And in the cases where the toxicity shows its worst side, symptoms do not abate with the avelox withdrawal, but increase for months on end. Some times the toxicity becomes evident some weeks or months after completing the treatment. If the treatment has been intense, the damage is normally irreversible.
You may want to read more at Dr. Cohen's site, the dear-doctor letter of Dr. T. Plumb, or thousands of medical reports, all of them linked at these non-profit sites: www.fluoroquinolones.org www.fqresearch.org
Up to now, more than half of the fluoroquinolones that have been marketed, have been withdrawn due to their extreme toxicity, but in fact they were nearly identical compounds to Avelox.
Anyway, if your daughter decides to take avelox, I wish her the best results with no toxic effects at all.
Posted by lymedad (Member # 8074) on :
lymeflox,
thank you for your concern and the references. I'll need some time to do the research as you suggested.
she's not scheduled to start the infusions of Avelox for another 2 to 3 weeks.
I do appreciate your input.
Posted by Jill E. (Member # 9121) on :
Hi Lymedad,
I think Nicole and I have the same LLMD, so it will be interesting to learn more at my next visit - we had talked a little about oral Avelox possibly for Bartonella, but given that I had over one year of Achilles Tendon pain and weakness from Levaquin, I said no. But that's interesting if IV Avelox has some effect on Lyme.
If Nicole has Bartonella or suspected Bartonella, just be prepared for herxing. I rarely herx on Lyme meds but have the herxes from heck with Bart meds.
How is Nicole doing after her HBOT sessions or is she still continuing them? I think of her often and hope she is doing well. It was very helpful to read about her HBOT treatment.
Jill
Posted by lymedad (Member # 8074) on :
Jill,
Good to hear from you.
Nicole is doing better these days. The HBOT did a world of good. The difference in her overall health has been quite remarkable since we've returned from Chico. She isn't continuing any HBO treatments at this time, but they may be in her future.
Dr H is really pleased with her progress and he's being very agressive with her treatments at this point.
Her biggest complaints these days are centered around the symptoms of Bartonella and Babesia, i.e., migraines,painful bumps on her head and overall weakness.
Although she still tires very easily, she's been able to get out of the house on several occasions and even went to her best friend's birthday party last week (short stay, but quite an achievement for her. Other than her trip to Chico for HBOT, it was her first time out of the house alone in almost a year).
At her last visit, Dr H indicated the possibility of taking advantage of her PICC line and wants her to add Avelox to her infusion protocol. He said he had been hearing of good reports of the effects of Avelox.
I was quite concerned to hear from a couple of folks here at LymeNet about the possible side-effects of Avelox and I want to do more research and talk again with her LLMD before we try it.
In addition, she's going to be speaking with a psychiatrist in Seattle and a Homeopathic/Chiropathic specialist in Ojai next week (Lymphatic massage, etc).
I'm confident you and Nikki have the same LLMD. If it matters, I wanted to tell you that, at least for Nikki, he has been spot-on with his diagnosis and his time-line for her recovery.
We're not expecting miracles, but I think we've been led to this young guy and we're very thankful for his insight and treatment.
I hope you're doing well. Please keep in touch and let us know how you're doing.
Sincerely,
LymeDad
Posted by lou (Member # 81) on :
Some people do fine with the cipro type drugs. However, I was one of those who ended up with tendon damage after three weeks of higher dose avelox, oral. This was several years ago, and although there was no rupture (not yet anyway) my achilles tendons never returned to normal.
If you try this drug, watch very carefully. You might want to not invest in a bunch of it in advance that would be wasted if she has to stop. Just get a little at a time, if that is possible.
Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :
Lymedad (or anyone), any update on your daughter and how she is doing?
Anyone else want to weigh in on Avelox?
Posted by kelmo (Member # 8797) on :
Yes! I miss Lymedad, and I've been wondering how she is doing.
My daughter saw rats crawling up the wall after one avelox pill a few years ago. Not sure that would be a good drug for her.
Posted by je (Member # 14653) on :
Avalox was one of the first drugs I went on. It made no difference with me whatsoever. My symptoms and titer got worse. It was paired up with something else, but I don't remember what.
I think after that it was doxy and cefzil and that worked for a couple months