Long story short, nearly 2 years ago I started treatment with aggressive oral abx/antiviral/antifungal/antimalarial regimen. After 20 years of being sick, I am MUCH better! I think I've kicked the babs, and the lyme is mostly in remission, though I'm still symptomatic. I'd love to stay on abx for at least a few more months, at minimum...
Now, however, I am making plan B -- I'm scared of losing insurance coverage for meds (I pay out of pocket for LLNP now, but am on a new ins. plan and scared they won't cover scrips, based on the experience of others)
My question is this -- has anyone successfully switched over from pharmaceutical treatment to solely herbal treatment? Did it work for you?
I used parts of Buhner's protocol early on, and found it powerful enough to be too much when combined with abx. If I lose my med coverage, this seems the best option for me to continue treatment of some kind. (I'm not interested at this time in rife and other "alternative" methods, so please don't suggest all that right now... thanks!)
Posted by sweet pea (Member # 6495) on :
I did the aggressive treatment with meds for Lyme, babesia and bartonella for 1-1/2 years. Decided that was enough, and switched to Buhner's protocol. I have definitely improved since then. It's also fairly inexpensive if you encapsulate the herbs yourself.
Posted by bejoy (Member # 11129) on :
I have been on a mainly naturopathic and homeopathic treatment due to lack of insurance, but have used some antibiotics.
I am doing very well, but it's not easy. I have to do something for my protocol every hour of every day, but it is working.
My most indespensible items for lyme and coinfections have included:
artemisin teasel root venex bee venom ointment from apitronics homeopathics from Deseret Biologicals: Lym, Bartonella Remedy, Borrelia Remedy Proteolyticc Enzymes from Bioset
I also use loads of supplements and detox products, and I use movement and hot tub to detox as well.
I would say I'm about 90% better in 8 months, after 20-30 years of lyme, so I must be really lucky.
I'd never suggest that anybody try to heal lyme without antibiotics, but in my case I have found that it can be done with a minimal program.
I owe much of that to my terrific practitioners! I'll see how I continue to progress.
Good luck with your healing process!
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
My LLMD has had very good results switching people over to Cowden herbs. I've added some of the herbs to my abx protocol, but when I get to where you are saying you are, I will switch over to the full-Cowden.
Posted by lucy96734 (Member # 8372) on :
I am in your boat so to speak. I have been doing great with abx and am about 90-95% on most days. My insurance neuro is not willing to write scripts anymore so my LLMD has added the Cowden protocol and at the moment I am finishing the abx I have and adding the herbs. I have another month or so of abx and then will just be on the herbs and see how it goes.
I really hope I continue to feel good. My LLMD said he has had folks do well with this approach.
edit to add I was sick for 5 years prior to treatment and have been on abx since 12/05
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
I went on Buhner's protocol in November of 2005 when my duck wouldn't give me any more abx on a relapse from 2000.
I added in abx I got myself, but couldn't take them long as they killed my stomach. I have been on Buhner's extended protocols ever since. Now on just maintenance. They saved my life. When I started them I was at about 30% or so and deteriorating, and now I am at about 90% of good.
I encapsulate all my herbs and have for over a year and a half, plus make tinctures. You save about 80% that way on the cost of readymades.
There are many posts on this on LymeNet.
Jim Posted by minimonkey (Member # 8693) on :
Thanks, folks --
I know there are lots of success stories with buhner's herbs -- but wasn't sure how many ppl had success switching to them after pharmaceuticals.
JimBoB -- you are the Buhner info guy, so I really appreciate you input. You and I see/have seen the same LLNP, btw...
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
Thanks, Mini. However, on the LLNP, I wonder if you have me confused with someone else on that, since you are from California, and I am from Wisconsin?
Tabers, I agree, don't be afraid to TRY something different. As a matter of fact, going on something different, IF it ends up being right for YOU, seems to help, at least for a little while.
I had cut way down to about 25 capsules of herbs, a day, a few weeks ago; down from about 50 a day. All seemed well at first, but then some of my old symptoms started coming back. I continued for another weeks or so, but wasn't getting better. So this past weekend, I upped a couple by one capsule and added back in Teasel, Cat's Claw and Andrographis, and I am better again today.
I have been suffering from a flu bug the past three days, but that is a little better today too. I was going to get a flu shot last month, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Kinda wish I had now.
Lots of stress right now too, preparing for divorce court for next Monday, so I know that is also taking it's toll on my health right now. But not doing too bad for an "old guy".
Take care and by all means keep up the herbs, they don't destroy your systems anything like abx do. Herbs work totally differently. THEY build you up for the most part.
Occasionally you may feel you need to take an abx for something. But I would definitely stay only very short term with it.
Jim
[ 13. November 2007, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: JimBoB ]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
JimB, "and now I am at about 90% of good."
I am so glad to hear this. Keep going in this direction. Life is good.
Take care.
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
quote:Originally posted by GiGi: JimB, "and now I am at about 90% of good."
I am so glad to hear this. Keep going in this direction. Life is good.
Take care.
Thanks, GiGi. NOW if I can just find the other 10% before I get too old to know the difference, that would be even better.
I quit my local dentist, before I got all my amalgams out, and I know they are giving me trouble, but he was very careless, and I would get infections from stuff he left in there. But he was cheaper than others I checked out.
I checked out another dentist about 10 miles away, but he was expensive; over $9,000 to take care of my teeth, AND he is NOT holistic either. There is one about 70 miles away, but I am afraid to find out what he would cost.
I only get $503 a month to live on, plus a little county help. I get medicare and medicaid, but the dentists I have been to, say they are not covered at all with that either.
Plus, I have to go to divorce court on Monday, November 19th, and it is more important that I can save my house at this time in my life so I have a place to live. Will see what happens after that.
Take care, good to hear from you again.
Jim Posted by hardynaka (Member # 8099) on :
Minimonkey...I would, in your place, arm myself with quite a few herbs (both killers, for borrelia and coinfections, and immunomodulators) and take these in combinations, doing rotations.
It seems that some of C's tinctures are wide spectrum, so I would keep some of them in my closet, plus B's core protocol herb and immmunomodulators/ stimulants. Then start slowly on them, not at once, but one by one until you see what they do to you.
I would certainly take pau d'arco tincture here and there (excellent borrelia cyst buster, at least for me, plus a yeast killer).
I would also buy a few homeopathics like Ledum in different potencies, possibly hypericum in the 200C potency and the Aurum arsenicosum 200K or 200C (if my memory is good) and take these sometimes. Best would be to muscle test this stuff, but if you don't believe muscle tests, well, just take these stuff once a week, alternating the potencies for a few months, until symptoms totally disappear.
That's what I did in the last phases of lyme. Until now, no return of any symptom whatsoever. But I'm still praying!
Selma
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
I did 6 months of antibiotics, relapsed after stopping, and then got on Buhner herbs and no antibiotics. I am virtually 100% better (only symptom is a LITTLE bit of memory loss- nothing abnormal for a healthy person, so I barely consider it a symptom- that I attribute to a mercury-related problem after dental work earlier this summer).
This vast improvement took about 9 months from the time of the bad relapse- I had some ups and downs but the improvements got longer and longer and then turned into symptom-free periods that got longer and longer.
About 4 months into herbs-only treatment I was for a time feeling extremely healthy and had perfect memory/brain function. This lasted until I had some mercury fillings out, which is always a risky procedure no matter what precautions the dentist takes.
After that I had some Lyme symptoms (sleepiness, brainfog, neck pain), tried a few weeks of antibiotics which seemed to have zero effect either negative or positive, then stopped the antibiotics and went back to herbs-only, and have very slowly improved throughout the summer and fall.
At this point the only problem I have is a bit of residual memory problem that isn't even outside the range of what my 'normal' non-sick friends experience. I'm not even sure it's Lyme that's causing the remaining memory problem and think it's related to my documented mercury problems.
I'm pretty close to putting a story into 'success stories' by the way.
I am still on herbs but smaller doses. I'm not planning on stopping anytime soon. My doctor has approved most of my process though I've added a few of the Buhner 'extras' herbs such as huperzine-A without asking him. He and I think I have an ongoing problem with mercury toxicity that is going to make Lyme relapse a risk until I address the mercury, which I'm not wanting to do yet, so I think Ill stay on herbs until I have time and money to risk the mercury chelation. In the past chelation attempts have caused me further worsening of Lyme symptoms, so that's why I'm going this route.
Posted by blossom (Member # 13260) on :
Hi Maria: Glad to hear the herbal route worked for you.
I've been on doxy for about 3.5 months now and I wouldn't say I've seen much lasting improvement yet.
If after 6 months of abx I haven't got much improvement I'm thinking of weaning off abx and phasing in Buhner herbs.
Can you give detail of how long you were sick before starting the Abx? And what your symptoms were? Just curious to see if Buhner might work for me.
Thanks!
Posted by JimBoB (Member # 8454) on :
Little Flower: The herbs will work for just about anyone. You just have to follow his book best you can, and don't give up or just "dabble' with them.
They do work, believe me.
I am not at 100%, but I think 90% is pretty good, at least for this old guy. Sure beats where I was with antibiotics.
Jim
[ 17. November 2007, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: JimBoB ]
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
I had been sick for 6 years before starting treatment with 6 months of antibiotics. The antibiotics didn't do the trick- I relapsed quite horribly about a month after stopping the antibiotics. I was pretty dysfunctional by the time I started treatment but I was no where near as badly off as some of the neuro-Lyme folks.
The symptoms I had were primarily exhaustion, extreme sleepiness, and severe brainfog, with this odd 'surface' skin pain along my back, some connective tissue injuries that didn't heal till I addressed the lyme, and sleep irregularities (either insomniac or sleeping for 14 hours). I had the really classic neck pain that I think Buhner describes as a variety of meningitis caused by Lyme. I also had sore eyes (like you haven't slept enough) and a few other woes I'm probably forgetting. I couldn't walk due to exhaustion for more than a couple of blocks by the time I started treatment. I also developed foot pain in both feet that felt like something was broken, that went away with antibiotic treatment, and I assume that's Lyme-related too.
My doctor thinks I might be the rare patient to not actually have (known) coinfections, though during my herbal treatment I got some mild Bartonella symptoms (roving sharp bone pains) and seemed to respond to/herx on Buhner's bartonella protocol (which I think would address some Lyme too, but that's my personal opinion).
I tested negative on the igenex test for Bart and have no babesia or ehrlichia symptoms so we didn't test for those, though I test very high in mercury so that's my big obvious complicating factor.
Posted by GardenLymer (Member # 6008) on :
Hi Mini -
I did many yrs(6 or so) on abx & maybe 3yrs on & off maleria TX. Always bad herxes, followed by much improvement, but always also eventually followed by relapse. Last relapse I deceided to get off that merry-go-round & switched to Buhner's this past Sept. Did really well 1st few months - ramping very slowly. As I have ramped up, energy is down some / napping is required...and herxes are a bit worse. I think babs, metal, yeast, & coagulation are my main probs right now. At this time I take no RX, even got off my plavix & crestor, which I think were causing my lower back pain - thankfully that's gone now.
I have seen much improvement in many area's. Stomach is much better....sleeping again - after severe insomnia for so many yrs, that's just so sweet. Nails are improving - toenails were all ridged & dry & would split...they are now coming in so nice & ridging is almost gone - no more splitting.
Vertigo better, but still bothersome in car. Skin is better...No more twitches...legs don't ache 24/7...still don't have a great appitite, but it's improving...emotions are even/no more severe up's & down's...
Biggest prob right now is every time I ramp up andrographis I seem to be getting some kind of nerve inflamation in 1 foot. Not sure what herb to take to solve this yet.
Overall, I am very pleased w/ the herbs and will continue them for a long time to come, I'm sure.
I have not really had any adverse reaction to anything I've added thus far - which truly amazes me - my list of ABX I can't take is quite long. The body just seems to accept them so much better overall.
The biggest pain is like bejoy said, I have to take something every hour, or there isn't time to get it all in. Slowly I have discovered what I can take w/ what. But 1 afternoon out of the house and forgeting my pills & I'm screwed for the day. Even a long nap can throw me off.
But, I no longer do an 8 hr drive to LLMD - I am in control of what I think I need at the time - and have found this to be impowering, somehow.
The list I take is longer every week or 2, but I am going very slowly as I am going it alone - so trying to be very careful in adding & ramping. If u are interested in knowing how I started & ramped up, just PM me - I won't bore you w/ it here.
Twice I just had days where I was sick of pills, so decided to give myself a break - and both times I have ended up regretting it, so I try to get thru those moments by reminding myself that it will all be worth it in the end.
I hope you give it a try, I am very glad I did!
(((hug)))
Posted by hardynaka (Member # 8099) on :
GardenLymer, I loved your story!
Thanks for posting it! It's true herbs made me feel more 'in control' of my own health.
And I got similar improvements like you said: insomnia got better, digestion got better, anxiety got better, I got addicted to the herbs! One day without my herbs, I would get anxiety, night terrors back the same night!
Never stop taking them until you're sure you have nothing else, at least, nothing else active! Cats claw, specially. It's a herb that doesn't produce immediate effects when you use it long term(visible, clear), but that I believe, helped in the long term to support my immune system!
Yes, the pills schedule is a pain... But when there's improvement, we get used to them and in the end, they're part of us. I came to see them more like food than medicine.
Good luck in your continuation! Keep us posted! Selma
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