Dr. B's post has been pulled. I am open to the possibility that what he does for treatment may actually work for some people, germ theory versus terrain theory aside. Can someone please inform us of the nature of treatments he uses?
Posted by johnlyme1 (Member # 7343) on :
Your mailbox is full
Posted by CaliforniaLyme (Member # 7136) on :
I would like to know, too. Can't you post it publicly??
Posted by joalo (Member # 12752) on :
Yes GC, I'd like to know what the treatment is too. I'm very upset by the way Dr B was treated here. sheesh....
Posted by FuzzySlippers (Member # 13658) on :
I'm very interested in this issue as well. I'd like to learn more. Does anyone have any details and information?
Why was the post pulled anyway?
Posted by dontlikeliver (Member # 4749) on :
I'm interested in what the treatment is also, so please share here if possible.
Posted by jennyflyer (Member # 12792) on :
I am open to any ideas people might have.
I think it's important to remain openminded, heck even Jonas Salk was highly criticized in his time.
Posted by johnlyme1 (Member # 7343) on :
Sorry, I will not post anything about this ever again. Too many people will manipulate my good outcome to fit their own agenda.
All the information is out there. I researched for over 16 months specifics parts along with my own local doctors.
Posted by yanivnaced (Member # 13212) on :
isopathics?
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
If people have an interest in further information, I would suggest the web site, the book, or contacting his office. I do not think that people that have worked with Dr. B. are likely to post further on the topic given the reception he received.
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
Greatcod, if you could see a great doc that is able to do muscle testing or ART testing, or whatever else some of these docs are gifted with?
These type docs are not based on blood test, xrays, MRIs, or anything else found in a hospital or typical doc office in USA. Not all of these docs are gifted, some could even been dishonest and frauds.
Some of these docs, even though they don't have that medical license from a well known medical college...have a gift. But I don't think you are serious in your posting of this question.
This is for others that are reading some of this unknown stuff.
Pam
Posted by Greatcod (Member # 7002) on :
OK, johnlyme1, my mailbox is empty now. Sorry it was full. If you could PM me again, I would appreciate it. And i hope you will give me permission to pass on what you have to say.
Frankly, at this point in my life, I don't care why something works to help, just that it does. With johnlyme1, we are not talking about someone whose first post was a testimonial to a new scam.
Very honestly, I have had my mind opened by some of the alternative posters...though I still believe there is much "hooey" out there, I have seen some mind bending documented things about our bodies and our health..
Posted by stymielymie (Member # 10044) on :
caveey your maibox is full and important medical informatino must be sent to you immediately
daveey
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I was very disappointed by the response that Dr. B received here. It was like a crazed mob was attacking him. I think some people would have lynched him on the spot if they could...
I would like further info but I guess we won't be able to get it on this message board. I live, probably, 3000 miles from where Dr. B is located & it would have been of benefit for me to be able to read some information about his work.
I hope this sort of thing won't happen again.
Please post any info about this topic for some of us who may be interested.
Posted by AlisonP (Member # 7771) on :
Quite frankly, I was appalled at the behavior exhibited on this board. Torches and pitchforks much?
I couldn't help but think, gee, IDSA must be having a celebratory brunch today -- "Wow, now we've got them doing our job *for* us, cheers everyone, take the next few days off whydontchya?"
Rather than continue this rant (and it's taking every fiber of reserve not to), I just want to say that it did not escape notice that Scott was also caught in the crossfire.
I applaud, in a standing ovation kind of way, Scott for his tireless work in researching Lyme treatments. I am so grateful to have him and his ever-expanding knowledge base on Lymenet. I count on it. I rely on it -- he does all this hard work and I reap the benefits.
And then I go out and research on my own and follow up and try stuff out and see what works and what doesn't and then and only then do I formulate an opinion. Thank you Scott. Thank you so much for all that you've done.
Now having said all that, I actually have some info. I have this info because I went and did some research and then asked some polite questions (thankfully, I was able to get these in just before the crazed villagers came over the hill with the hunting dogs).
One of the ways that disturbance fields in the terrain are treated is with neural therapy. Dr. K is the other doctor who has helped pioneer this treatment in this hemisphere.
Cheers,
Alison
Posted by lymie tony z (Member # 5130) on :
Honestly, some of you have got to change your rhetoric....it's REALLY getting "olde"!
I, for one, do not consider opinions, of the pro's or con's of anything put up here, in a
public forum, for discussion, anything more than just that! A "theory" by this so called "dr b"
or that "dr K" or any of the "theories" of paths to "cureing lyme disease", are just that,
topics for discussion. That is unless you "pro" "dr b'ers" care to claim that you or
he or they have the out and out cure for lyme disease............... I thought not!
These same people, who bring forth a lot of the, "alternative", "off beat", "outside the
box", "open minded", "half baked" undocumented "theories of cures for lyme and company".
Are always the "same bunch". With an old and wornout rhetorical style.
They post anything they can think of or find out there in cyberspace.
They are then, "taken aback and awe struck,"when really sick and desperate people
question the integrety of anything put forth in the medical "discussion" forum.
They pose and write speaches, as if they are "victims of closed minded individuals".
They say they are "appalled at the pitchforks and hangmans' noose and attitudes of the way these theories are treated".
Yet, they offer NO, double blind/placebo studies of any kind, anyone has ever published
in any "medical journal" anywhere by this "dr b" and others.
So, some of us are a little more colorful in our comments and opinions.
However there is NOTHING in the rule books that say we cannot be so. "Poetic liscense", if you will.
I mean you pro "dr bers" use creative writting as I mentioned above. Good for "goose and gander" alike, don't you agree?
Plus, just because you "pro dr bers" CLAIM we are bashing anyone. Does'nt make it so!
When something is put forth here in the medical forum it is open for discussion and if that
rhetoric gets a little heated. Then my advice would be, "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen".
Because a lot of us around here are serious people, who are seriously sick and don't need,
sometimes downright,, laughable(at least on the surface), "claims of cures", "theories of
cures", "seemingly magical elixurs of cures" from anyone who has the initials "dr" in front
of their names or "md" behind. Or some of the more "unenlightened newbies might take as serious medical advice".
The IDSA collective "drs" continuously claim there are no current studies on extra IV abx therapy,
in relationship to efficacy on ongoing "Chronic Misnomers" effects on the brains cognitive abilities.
They think if they say it long and loud enough DR FALLON, and his study will be drowned out...
BUT IT WON'T.
Now this study is what I call science and medicine.
Backed up with a double blinded placebo study, with REAL PEOPLE, with and without REAL
DISEASES.....(I only use capitals for emphasis, NEVER to seem like I'm shouting. Because
honestly, nothing around here REALLY gets me THAT, angry anymore. It's always the same o same o. Just a different day!
"You can travel on, ten thousand miles, and still stay, where you are"!(H.C.& W.O.L.D.).
Nuff said....
zman
[ 04. January 2008, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: lymie tony z ]
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
I couldn't agree more Alison! Thanks Scott.
zman - I read the thread and I don't consider calling someone names, using puking emoticons and hurling accusations of money grubbing to be a reasonable questioning of theories. The theory wasn't even the bulk of the discussion.
Most of the discussion was a mud slinging fest directed at Dr. B. personally.
I agree with Alison in her characterizations. I wish the people who claim to only be questioning in the interest of "protecting" newbies and lyme patients who are too brain fogged to think for themselves would learn to respond like adults instead of 3rd graders.
Trying to foist your idea that double blind studies are necessary in order for something to be deemed valid is short sighted and not something that many of us feel is the be all, end all in treatment decision making. If it were, I wouldn't have started long term abx treatment almost 2 years ago.
I bet if you asked the people who you think need your protection if they want YOU making their decisions for them they would say NO. The threads have been deleted, the information is no longer available and thus the decision has been made for us!! Very upsetting that you and those of like mind are making decisions for me and others against our will.
By all means, feel free to adhere to your own personal standards but I don't need you or anyone else to make my decisions for me. I'm fully capable of making my own decsions.
Terry
Posted by dlp252 (Member # 10711) on :
Thank you Terry, excellent post.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
quote:Originally posted by dlp252: Thank you Terry, excellent post.
I agree completely. It's a shame new ideas are not allowed here.
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
I have to agree, opinions are welcome in discussion, but I really find the over-the-top persecution drama to be tiresome. It also shouldn't be necessary for us to hurl insults at each other.
It seems people with TBDs (self-included) have a lowered threshhold for frustration and sometimes have difficulty expressing what they are feeling in a non-accusatory, non-inflammatory manner. Perhaps it is the manifestation of these diseases that causes all the hurt feelings on this board.
GC- The only info I was able to obtain was with regard to diet. From the answer I got to my question on the primarily meat diet(via PM), I believe he supports dietary info of Weston A Price and Robert Atkins. I can't really try to explain it because I'm not sure I understood it and the poster using the name "Dr.B" left me hanging, so I'll just copy it here and maybe it will help you:
quote: Dr. B. posted 01-02-2008 01:09 AM
When the body is not stressed, it is parasympathetic or autonomic mode in the cells are alkaline and dump acid waste dropping the pH of the blood. When we are stressed, we go into sympathetic mode or adrenal mode and the cells become acid and dump alkaline waste increasing the pH. The normal pH of the venous blood is considered 7.4 and most people run in the 7.5 area. I really like to see it between 7.35 and 7.4.
AliG posted 01-02-2008 01:15 AM
So you feel that it is best to have the cells of the body more acidic & the blood more alkaline? What does this do for the Borrelia infected cells in the body?
Dr. B. posted 01-02-2008 02:13 AM
No, just the opposite. When we are stressed our cells are acidic and our blood is too alkaline. When we are relaxed and in a meditative state for example, our cells are alkaline and our blood becomes acidic. The attitude with which we eat is as important if not more important than what we eat. Attitude best controls the pH balance. Also, good organic food is important. I believe in the work of Weston Price and Bob Atkins on diet.
AliG posted 01-02-2008 08:45 AM
What if eating mostly fat & protein and very little carbs causes us physical exhaustion and the constant challenges of trying to maintain a restrictive diet cause us mental & emotional stress?
Would that not be counterproductive to what you are suggesting?
I received no answer to my question, so I don't know whether my understanding was correct.
You can check out the website drbigelsen.com & see if you may be able to get a better handle on it than I did.
I'm still not convinced that the poster actually was the person s/he claimed to be.
I do believe that it's important to give your body all the support you can when trying to fight TBDs and I think everyone's needs are different based on their own lifestyle, circumstances and coexisting health issues.
I'm not so sure that I personally would trust having my issues divined by the observation of "holograms" in my blood, but that's my personal comfort level.
I'd prefer actually looking for organisms, deficiencies and possibly structural defects with available tests capable of finding them. I'm one of those people that prefers concrete proof whenever possible.
In the absence thereof, I do suppose that someone could take the information given as a result of the "vision" seen in the blood and follow it up by ACTUALLY testing, through established scientific means, to see if any evidence exists.
I just don't have the financial means or the strength to go that route and I'm certain that my DH would NEVER buy it, he has enough trouble comprehending the allopathic treatments & complexity of the TBDs. In actuality, I still don't think DH "gets" it, I think he's just come to realize that fighting me about it just makes HIS life more stressful because I start pulling out scientific studies which he can't/won't read.
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
Terry,
If you want information go to bigelsen.com. As for actual information provided by the poster of the thread, I may have missed something but the crypticism seemed to me to provide very little actual information.
I believe the poster of the thread caused it to be deleted by calling a long-time contributer, who suffers from Lyme Disease, "retarded" and mocking him. This was highly unprofessional for someone claiming to be a doctor and IMO horribly offensive to me as a neuro-affected Lyme sufferer.
I can't imagine that anyone, having studied and practiced medicine and presently diagnosing & treating patients with such disorders could have actually made those posts.
"Dr.B" couldn't possibly think that everyone on here would welcome him with open arms. I'm sure he would realize that there are people out there who would challenge him. I'm still not convinced that a doctor who is purported to be successful would spend his holidays in this fashion.
That's just my opinion.
Posted by charlie (Member # 25) on :
The thing was offensive to me from the get-go...calling himself 'Dr B' and proceeding to talk down to us and somehow imply that if we took better care of ourselves we couldn't get sick.
I'd have really levelled him but I was afraid I'd upset Trueblue, Johnlyme, and Stuck even worse and I didn't want to do that, having no idea previously that they were adherents of his (or whoever that was)
I'm just glad that thread is gone.
Charlie
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
The poster leveled him/herself and neither of you had to waste your efforts or become targeted by wrath. You didn't trigger sensitivities in the thread like salt(&C) in old wounds and now you can use your extra energy to go
!!!!!EAT SOME CHOCOLATE!!!!
I would like to thank you both and express my admiration for the self-control you exercised with concern for the emotional welfare of the others here who express differing opinions. I think that was very considerate & deserves to be commended. I think to reward yourselves you should go
!!!!!EAT SOME CHOCOLATE!!!!
(I'm actually REALLY glad because I hate when we have to protest to get people back, all the sniveling & groveling is really stressful & demeaning. )
Sorry for being silly - I just couldn't resist.
OK- I'm not sorry, I've been too serious & really needed to be silly. I hope you all understand. Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
Oh wait a minute.......
I'll bet chocolate would create a disturbance in your terrain, better not.
Wait!!!!
STRESS creates disturbances in your terrain & CHOCOLATE RELIEVES STRESS!!!!!
This is quite the conundrum. Posted by Looking (Member # 13600) on :
Well I don't really know all what went on in that thread but I did look to see if stymie lymie alias doc dave really calls himself "retarded" in his profile and this is what it says (look for yourself):
Profile for stymielymie: Member Status: Frequent Contributor Member Number: 10044 Registered: 07 September, 2006 Posts: 1413 Location: banner elk,nc Occupation: retarded dentist Interests: curing lyme,treating crippled birds
Now is this some kind of inside joke and why would anyone post that description of themselves, or is it a reference to neuroborreliosis or something?????? Maybe Doc Dave can share the joke cause I don't get it.
Why say that about yourself and then object if someone else points out what you posted???
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
Stymie has a great sense of humor -- he's poking fun at himself for the impact of Lyme, methinks -- do you have anything else to say in your defense, docdave?
The poster hung himself. I feel pretty sure this was Dr B. He did not understand the negative impact he would have here by communicating the way he did, throughout his posting. He needs to understand a community of people first before dealing with them, is my opinion.
Now I too was left with an unfinished sense of the topic, because we had posters here who genuinely said they were better as a result of treatment with Dr B. I wanted to hear more of what they did.
I don't think we get to have double-blind studies on everything at this point yet. I mean, Ultra mangosteen juice works for me, but I doubt if there's been a double-blind study on it. Sometimes the best that we have is reports, until the studies get done, if they get done at all.
Here's what I understand happens with Dr B patients so far, and if anyone has corrective info, go ahead and let us know.
He looks at the blood throughout the treatments. For debris of some kind -- to see if it's clearing out. And what else, I'm not clear. I do not understand the concept of pictures of body parts in the blood. That part doesn't seem to make any scientific sense.
Isopathy treatments via capsules or IM injections. I think this means homeopathic treatment.
Hyperbaric oxygen treatment.
Osteopathy as needed for structural corrective work.
Trigger point injections in areas of injury.
Cranial sacral therapy.
Neural therapy. I don't know what that means or how it's determined that it's needed.
Checking for any dental disorders.
Diet for pH balancing.
[ 05. January 2008, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
Thanks, Alison and Terry - well said.
Ali, I find no indication that ``Symplasts'' found in the blood have anything at all to do with ``divination''. If you wish to presume that there is some sort of supernatural force necessary for formation or interpretation of this peculiar phenomenon, then please make sure everyone knows that it is your opinion , and not based on anything Bigelsen may have said or implied. Otherwise, those who have not been to the website will be misled.
As Robin and others have said, some of the treatments mentioned in the purposely-obliterated thread were:
nuero-therapy; osteopathy isopathics (to help carry the debris out of the body); biological dentistry - evaluation and treatment; ozone; HBOT.
Posted by Greatcod (Member # 7002) on :
Of course, the basic question here is not about the guy's theories, which seem very over the top to me, but about the nature of his treatment protocols and the success rate he achieves with Lyme patients. If I claimed the the disease was caused by karmic bacteria from a previous life, and that treatment of thirty days of two liters of Root Beer soda quieted their spirits, and healed Lyme, and it turned out to be true that 30 days of root beer invariably cured Lyme, who would care if the underlying theory had any validity? I just want to knwowhat the guy does and how effective the treatment is.
Posted by Ann-OH (Member # 2020) on :
Did anyone google this subject? Might find some interesting stuff if you go to
Tony Z is absolutely right about keeping our cool while discussing subjects.
Ann - OH
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthfinder:
Ali, I find no indication that ``Symplasts'' found in the blood have anything at all to do with ``divination''. If you wish to presume that there is some sort of supernatural force necessary for formation or interpretation of this peculiar phenomenon, then please make sure everyone knows that it is your opinion , and not based on anything Bigelsen may have said or implied. Otherwise, those who have not been to the website will be misled.
Tracy- Perhaps that's why the thread was deleted?
That was the impression I got from Scott's post about "Holograms" in the blood.
He's seeing representations of infected organs and misaligned spines and forceps deliveries, Is he not?
Please HELP ME UNDERSTAND, instead of lambasting me.
Why would I be posting anything other than MY opinion? Who's opinion should I post? Do I need to disclose EVERY TIME I MAKE A POST this IS MY OPINION or THIS IS SOMEONE ELSE'S OPINION? I give credit to anyone else who's opinions I post.
I gave the address of his site for anyone to go to that wanted information & I DID NOT QUOTE HIM. The information was MY understanding based on what was posted in the other thread.
Please give me a flipping break!
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
Ann- I spent some time going through the links & I'm afraid I still just don't get it.
Cave- I'm not getting that either.
I'm giving up on this & I sincerely hope it's not a cure because if it is, I'll die first before I'll even consider trying to understand it again.
Good luck to you Tracy. I hope it cures you and you can go on your way & never look back except to laugh.
Thanks anyway.
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
I'm walking away from the board now. I have chest pains.
Posted by Greatcod (Member # 7002) on :
I have concluded that Lymenet itself is a disturbance field, and that if you spend too much time on this board, you can never get better. Crazier, maybe, but not better. On the other hand, in today's world being a bit crazier may offer reproductive advantages.
Posted by groovy2 (Member # 6304) on :
Hi All
OK what did I miss ?????--
I have not been on LN much lately because I have a really hard time logging on to LN I get the Wacky pages that wont load --
Somebody PM me and fill me in on whats going on-
It seems like in the last month or 2 when I come to LN there has been some kind of hassels going on --
Even tho I have No Clue what is going on at the moment -
Just remember that the Forces that want to to keep you from getting well - ( Insurance companies ect )
They use the Dived and Conquer Technique --
Its Effective -- Cheap -- and Very Easy --
Im 100% Sure that They do Nasty Things like that to Hundreds of Help groups OnLine - Everyday -
These people Are Evil -
Like I said I have No Clue what Going - now so fill me in with a PM -
New subject--
The Happy Side of Things--
It Looks like the Texas Medical Board people may soon be moving to Much Smaller Offices - -
I have been Assured that they will Not Be Allowed to Have pizzas delivered for Many Years --
Personally I think for All the Hassle - Pain and time that they have cost me and others-
I would like to get All of them in a Locked room and Kick the Holy Crap out of Every One of them - Twice - and then thrown there Punk asses in jail -
With the Way the Mood of the Country is Right Now -
They May be Texas Toast -- Jay --
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
Ali, first let me apologize if you thought I was lambasting you. That was not my intent. I made a simple request prefaced with the word ``please'', and did not think you would misinterpret that as some kind of attack. I can certainly accept that as my error in not making myself clear.
The word ``divination'' has connotations that imply `forecasting of hidden information by supernatural means' and is associated with words like prophecy, soothsaying, prognostication, fortunetelling, sorcery, magic, clairvoyance, necromancy, and intuitive discernment.
Because you have used the word ``divination'' (or similar words) more than once in your posts, I thought that perhaps I had made an error and missed something the first time I explored the information on Bigelsen's website.
I wasted 45 minutes yesterday morning going back through most of the information on the website, searching for some hint or clue that these holograms were anything more than some kind of physical manifestation of `disorders' in the person, and that these holograms can be seen even by laypeople, and interpreted by anyone who has proper training.
In that sense and in the final analysis, I'm not sure these holograms or symplasts are any different than the `markers' or `indicators' in most other blood tests. But because we don't have the means to fully explain the mechanism by which they form, I think we have to be careful that we don't project the idea that this is some kind of `woo-woo' medicine.
I believe that this is just another case where science will eventually explain the whole process; we just don't have that information yet.
We don't always have to fully explain something before we make use of it.
Aspirin was widely used for about 90 years before anybody ever figured out why or how the stuff worked. Should they have waited to figure it all out before they made use of it?
The guy who first began using SPECT scans to diagnose ADD and the peculiar characteristics of some ADD subsets had to go through tens of thousands of scans to determine how to interpret the results. And, I might add, he was initially ridiculed by his peers for his work in this field. And now not only is his work accepted and widely used, we use SPECT scans to determine all kinds of various brain problems. (Can't think of his name at the moment.)
It seems like if I try to be brief in what I write, it gets misinterpreted. I hope I've explained myself better this time around. No `lambasting' was intended so, again, I apologize if it sounded that way to you.
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