3. How long were you taking vitamin d supplements before you noticed improvement?
4. to your knowledge, was your vitamin d low before you started taking the vitamin d supplement?
Thank You for your thoughts in advance. Mine is low and I just started taking vitamin d supplement... would be nice if it helped something.
Posted by Curiouser (Member # 14128) on :
My vit d was low (13) when I first had it tested back in May.
Started out on 2000IU of vit D daily.
I upped my doseage to 4000IU daily back in Sept to make up for fewer hours spent in the sun.
Didn't notice any change with physical issues, but definitely noticed a improved mood change.
I usually go through a really severe bout of depression around October, which lasts until sometime in late Jan-early Feb.
Didn't get that this year.
Some moodiness, but at least wanted to get out of bed in the morning.
Posted by tanzi2u (Member # 9237) on :
Can't really answer your questions as we haven't tried it yet. But we did ask our LLMD last week about supplementation.
His reply was that Vit D was an excellent choice, and that there are indications that Vit D may be a natural antibiotic.
The endo doc later in the week concurred.
Posted by Areneli (Member # 6740) on :
I have become stronger after a few weeks of vitamin D.
So it worked for me.
But at certain point there was no more improvement so I stopped taking it. For a while I took up to 10000 units per day. This is the largest possible human dose, allowed by doctors.
I took a break; you know, you shouldn't overdo it either. Or you may go easy with 2000-4000 units per day but longer.
I may try it again in a few months.
But if vitamin D makes you sick go slowly with small doses. Perhaps it is a natural abx and you herx. It is also possible that vitamin D is harmful to some people. We don't know what is really going on.
Posted by Cold Feet (Member # 9882) on :
Azure, see my post from the other topic on D...just posted about how avoidance of D has helped me get rid of mycoplasma pneumonia and Bb...
Posted by kelmo (Member # 8797) on :
I've written much on this board about my daughter's experience with adding vitamin D.
She definitely herxed on it, at only a few days of 400IUs.
She has since worked up to 30000 IUs daily, and I encourage her to go out in the sun for ten minutes a day.
It was a good decision to add it. I can't pinpoint anything specific, except like someone said, a strength overall.
Posted by joysie (Member # 11063) on :
1. it made you feel any better?
Yes. 2. if yes to question one, what did it help?
Energy and reduced joint and muscle pain. My neuro, who is a world-renknowned pain specialist, says there is a significant inverse relationship between pain levels and Vit. D levels.
3. How long were you taking vitamin d supplements before you noticed improvement?
6 weeks the first time.Not yet this time (two weeks)
4. to your knowledge, was your vitamin d low before you started taking the vitamin d supplement?
It was way low in Feb.07. did 50,000 IU/week plus 1,000 IU per day for 8 weeks. It was at normal levels this summer. Just had it re-tested, and it was very very low again.I have not been feeling great.
This time I am on 50,000IU twice per week for 8 weeks plus 1,000 IU/day. This seems staggering to me but my LLMD and PCP are in agreement.
Posted by Areneli (Member # 6740) on :
Mine was low by lab results before starting vitamin D.
Posted by roro (Member # 13383) on :
I dod not know about the abx properties and possible herxing! It makes sense now
I tested low, 18.
I tried it b4 tx with abx and it made me feel worse.
now that I am on abx since aug, I started it again in dec, and it makes me feel better.
i stopped it a couple weeks ago and got worse again, so I am staying on it now.
I take 1000 u of D3
Posted by Curiouser (Member # 14128) on :
You might want to check out the Vitamin D Council.
Funny you should ask about Vitamin D right now...I just watched the Oprah show today and she had Dr. Northcutt on discussing women's health. Dr. Northcutt said that most people are deficient in Vitamin D. She recommends 2,000 units per day and recommends at least 15 minutes in the sun...More for people with darker skin...She said it has many beneficial effects including elevation of mood...
Yes, this is what you do when you're on the babs meds..you watch Oprah..Good Lord, I can't wait to get my life back....I'm going stir crazy!!!
Posted by AZURE WISH (Member # 804) on :
thank you all for sharing your experiences, info and links.
Maybe since my d is low (even though i take a multivitamin) that the supplement will help me feel less bad.
and hopefully i wont herx off the d... the lyme and babs herxes i have now are quite enuff Posted by cordor (Member # 9449) on :
My vitamin D level was 5. Normal should be at least above 30 and optimally around 50. My doc started me on a prescription of Vit D which is 50,000 units taken once per week for 8 weeks. I also have now developed severe osteoporosis and hyperparathyroidism (both presumed as a result of the severe low D level)I just turned 50, so these kinds of problems are premature. Nobody can tell me WHY my vit D is SO low.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Know what ya mean, Bugg...
Posted by lymebytes (Member # 11830) on :
I in the last couple of months I was diagnosed with critically low vitamin D. I was told to "load", meaning 50,000 IU's once per week for a month. I don't believe in loading especially something that can be toxic, so I have taken 2000 IU's daily since test results and am right now waiting for results to see if it is coming up. I do feel possibly a little better, but so far not significantly, probably because I have a ways to go. They estimate at the levels I am on 3 months I will notice the difference. For lots more info on Vitamin D deficiency check out this link: http://www.truthaboutlymedisease.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=822 Posted by gwenb (Member # 7217) on :
1. it made you feel any better?
- Yes - a fairly dramatic improvement. It enabled me to go back to the gym and cycle to work again.
2. if yes to question one, what did it help?
- Fatigue, heart-rate, palpitations, stamina etc. Overall a significantly improved sense of well-being.
3. How long were you taking vitamin d supplements before you noticed improvement?
- I started seeing benefits within 3 weeks.
4. to your knowledge, was your vitamin d low before you started taking the vitamin d supplement?
- I supplemented at 10,000 IU of D3(I don't recommend this level for everyone) for 10 weeks and then I had my levels tested. After supplementing at that level I tested at 117 nmol - according to the literture I have read a perfectly optimal level would be around 125 nmol. I now take approximately 4,000 IU daily - less in the summer months where I am getting Vit D naturally from the sun (In N. hemisphere countries you can't get enough Vit d from the sun for about 6 months of the year).
Posted by DoctorLuddite (Member # 13853) on :
Exercise caution when repleting with prescription strength vitamin D; the 50000 unit capsule is Ergocalciferol, and only about 25% effective at binding to the vitamin D receptor, hence you might reach a toxic level in your blood before you actually start to get any therapeutic efficacy. Supplements that are 2000 IU to 10000IU per capsule are likely ergo or, if they claim to be chole, they are derived from lanolin, and in my experience, not near as effective as the cholecalciferol that is derived from cod liver oil, which seems to be the closest to what we make from sun exposure. What we make from sun exposure is far and away the best, but caution must be taken not to overdo and either burn or get too dark, the former is an insult that requires a healing period and uses up metabolic resources, and the latter acts as a screen to keep the UV rays from converting subcutaneous cholesterol into vitamin D. Oral supplementation should be followed up by retesting, as you need to determine if absorption is taking place. Many Lymies have inflammation in their intestines, an obstacle to the absoption of nutrients. Vitamin D is fat soluble, so people with a lot of body fat tend to accumulate it in the fat and the serum level takes a very long time to go up even with large doses.
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
Thanks for you help with sorting out the various 'sources' of Vitamin D, Doc Luddite.
I know that Oxygenbabe has done a lot of reasearch on this, also.
Posted by pingpong (Member # 13706) on :
dramatic arthritic relief here w/ mod.-severe wrist and elbow pain...before vit. d supp., had given up use of rt. hand for mouse, one week using l.-hand. started vit. d after one week, and went back to use of rt. hand.
also,body-tmep spike. while not measured w/ thermometer, i felt it...
vit. D3 used alone, though this supp. had a nominal amount of calcium in it; fwiw,it happened to be powder form.
results started happening w/ first 400 i.u. dose.
i musta been severely deficient at that time.
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
I just checked my main bone-building supplement and my adjunctive D3 supplement (which I haven't taken yet), and both say that the D3 they use is from "cholecalciferol".
Looks like I got lucky.
Posted by DoctorLuddite (Member # 13853) on :
Maybe, but if it doesn't specifically say that it came from fish, it might be from lanolin, and not as effective.
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
Probably, yes. But I think I'd still prefer that over the 'ergo' type.
A lot of people are allergic to lanolin - I assume that there must not be a problem with D3 derived from lanolin or it would say something on the bottle.
Posted by B R H (Member # 12159) on :
Why assume that a measured deficiency in vitamin D-25 is a cause & not simply an effect? Also note that a measure of D-1,25 is likely more useful since it is the form used by our bodies.
That is incorrect, our bodies can use both 25 hydroxy and 1,25 dihydroxy vitamin D, the former is generated by the live-r and the latter from the kidney and certain other tissues modifying 25 hydroxy vitamin D by adding another hydroxy group. The 1,25 hydroxy D has higher affinity for the vitamin D receptor, and is a more potent immune system modulator. The natural sequence is that subcutaneous cholesterol changes into pro-vitamin D when an electron dense region of the molecule is energized by UVB. Then pro-vitamin D is modified by sequential hydroxylations, and each hydroxylation makes the molecule more potent. The production of 25 hydroxy D by the liver requires an unstressed liver, and if plenty is present, the liver will down regulate the production. The 1,25 dihydroxy is regulated by several factors, yes, you need healthy kidneys and adequate hydration, but the process is also regulated by parathyroid hormone, calcium and phosphate levels, and how much metabolic stress the body is under. The 25 hydroxy level is THE most important. Think of the 25 hydroxy as net worth, 1,25 dihydroxy as pocket money. If you use up your pocket money without maintaining cash flow to your net worth, you'll soon be metabolically bankrupt.
Posted by B R H (Member # 12159) on :
So you've read the paper linked above? Do you believe vitamin D deficiency is a cause & not a result of chronic disease?
Posted by DoctorLuddite (Member # 13853) on :
The human body (and other animal bodies for that matter) is a self regulating, self correcting biodynamic organism and responds to challenge in a multitude of ways to re-establish equilibrium and manifest the best health that it can at all times. That does not mean that we will always appear "healthy".Vitamin D is but one of many essential compounds that assist in that self regulation. Vitamin D deficiency does not cause Lyme disease, exposure to the Lyme organism is responsible for that, but response to BB will be impaired if D is low, and may result in an incomplete immune response. Likewise, having a body overloaded with toxins like PCBs or heavy metals will also impair that response. Put all those things into one organism (lack of D and overload with toxins and oxidative stress) and add any bacteria to the system, and you have a recipe for illness.
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
I began taking Vit D3 after testing low in it. I have rheum. arthritis. It is well known in the RA world that we do well in the summer and suffer through the winter.
This is my first winter supplementing D and I am not suffering at all. Even in the below freezing temps we are enjoying right now, I feed and water my horses with no increased pain.
I'm having a good winter and I give Vit D at least some of the credit.
Luvs
Posted by playpup (Member # 1768) on :
My Doc just started me on Vit D (D3) Thorne 5000 IU.
Within a very short time ... it has already helped with fatigue and mood, and to my surprise, it has also helped with the type of hair loss we often experience with LD.
Posted by B R H (Member # 12159) on :
Please explain how "response to BB will be impaired if D is low."
I'm also curious how, as a society pummeled with vitamin D food supplementation, we are suddenly so deficient in the first place. Borrelia has been around for an awful lot longer than vitamin D supplementation! In fact, if you do some research, I think you'd find that the "spread" of chronic disease correlates quite well with vitamin D supplementation.
Heavy supplementation with vitamin D may make you feel better in the short term, just like steroids do, but I've read MANY patient reports indicating it is detrimental long term. Vitamin D supplementation seems to have an awful lot in common with steroid treatment in the long term.
Posted by AZURE WISH (Member # 804) on :
BRH - You asked how as a society our d can be low -
D3 is made by the skin getting sun... as a society we go out less and spend more time indoors than previous generations.
Also as a society we have become more cautious with the sun to avoid exposing ourselves to a greater risk of developing skin cancer. We are covering up or apllying sunscreen much more frequently than previous generations. (sunscreen will prevent the d3 from being made)
I am pale and have direct family members that have had to have skin removed because it was cancerous - so far just basil cell (that they know of) - so when i do go outside i don't leave any skin uncovered with applying sunscreen. I have been this way for many years and is probaly what caused my D to be low.
Posted by B R H (Member # 12159) on :
Sunscreens are not as effective as you might think. It takes very little exposure (if any) to sunlight for our bodies to generate all the vitamin D they need.
Vitamin D upregulates gene transcription in cells when it binds to the intracellular vitamin D receptor, and the vdr-Dcomplex moves into the cell nucleus, hence if there is an invader (BB) the body's immune response, which requires various types of white blood cell (all with vdr) activation, will be impaired with a low D. I agree that the form of vitamin D that most foods are supplemented with should be banned from human consumption, as it is produced by fungi, and binds poorly to the vitamin D receptor due to the steric hindrance of an extra side chain carbon species. But a more insidious process is at work, the dust cloud of an increasingly industrialized world that is filtering the rays of the sun. Do you suppose that the Bubonic plague was caused by too much vitamin D centuries ago? Very doubtful. All life on the surface of the earth depends on sunshine, always has, always will, and there is no human way to improve on sunshine, only the opposite. You say that infectious disease has increased because of food supplementation with vit. D, but you overlook the fact that an increase in vaccinations has occurred in the same time period, and that has subjected millions to unnecessary exposure to thimerosol. Do you think the 50 or 60 units (at best) of ergosterol in a glass of milk is going to have as detrimental an effect as a mercury containing preservative? Anyone who improves on the Marshall protocol does so in spite of vitamin D avoidance, not because of it, in my opinion.
Posted by B R H (Member # 12159) on :
I agree that vaccinations are suspect. Have you considered that another issue with vaccines & many other injectible medications is that the filtration used in their preparation is not fine enough to filter out some bacteria that have been implicated in chronic disease?
PS. Benicar is an agonist of the VDR & FWIW, those who reduce their vitamin D intake & light exposure seem to progress faster on MP than those who don't. You should really take the time to read Marshall's latest paper. You may find more agreement than disagreement on these issues.
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
My Vit D tested low at the time i was diagnosed with osteoporosis, so i was put on 50,000 IUs Vit D2 per week, and after subsequent tests, i take 50,000 IUs 2x/wk. I've been on Vit D2 pills for 2 years for osteoporosis. I also get some Vit D3 in a calcium pill , and also in canned fish.
I have no idea if it affects my lyme symptoms or not.
It definitely helps my osteoporosis!
I assumed that i need so much because of some kind of malabsorption. Thanks for the technical posts-- i see that it's very complicated. I don't know all the implications! ......
Posted by B R H (Member # 12159) on :
Have you had your vitamin D metabolites (25-D & 1,25-D) tested since?
Also, how have you judged that your osteoporosis has improved due to vitamin D alone? Could it simply be the calcium supplementation?
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
I feel great in the sun and bad without it.
I supplement Vit D3. That is not the D used in supplementing foods. That one is D2.
I feel great with the sun and great with the supplementation.
Luvs
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
BRH, I think you'll find that the spread of chronic diseases also started popping up in the wild animal kingdom - Whirling Disease in trout, Chronic Wasting Disease in deer and elk, to name a couple of them.
The increased incidence of these odd diseases in the wild can't be attributed to Vit D fortified foods, eating twinkies, or receiving vaccinations. In my opinion, this suggests that there is something additional - something more subtle and sinister out there in our `environment' - that is contributing heavily to the overall problem.
BRH, for the record, I'm one of those people who does not discount what Marshall is saying. He may be right, and if he is, then those of us who have recently started supplementing with Vitamin D should feel better for awhile, and then crash and feel worse as the `steroid' effects of supplementation begin to manifest themselves.
So, in a sense, there are some small experiments going on here within LymeNet to `test' Marshall's theories.
Posted by gwenb (Member # 7217) on :
I've been supplementing with Vitamin D3 since late February of last year (please see previous posts) and I haven't crashed - I've just continued to feel better and better, to the the point of saying to myself, "hmmm, perhaps my Lyme disease is in remission?" This wasn't due to Vit D supplementation alone, although it dramatically increased my well-being.
Aside from Dr. Marshall (who is not a medical doctor), there are thousands of peer reviewed articles showing the multiple and important benefits of robust levels of Vitamin D: ranging from dramatically lowering cancer rates, to improving symptoms with MS (which I personally believe is an undiagnosed bacteria infection), RA, tuberculosis, kidney ailments, heart problems and the list goes on and on and on.
It makes sense that Vit D (Vit D 3 being the best supplement to take but sunshine being the most readily absorbed and superior) is good for us. We evolved in the sun and it is only relatively recently that we have covered up our bodies, slapped on sunscreen and spent the majority of our times indoors away from sunshine (windows filter out 95% of the uvb rays).
Before I supplemented with Vit D I spent hours and hours and hours reading about it on pubmed.com - previously, I had considered trying the Marshall Protocol, but didn't because starving your body of Vit D appeared both unproven and dangerous.
Gwen
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
Reply to BRH: Yes, i have my Vit D level tested every 3 months. I have Bone Density Scans, recently, every 6 months to check on the efficacy of my program.
No, it wasn't just the calcium pills, and it wasn't just the Vit D pills! I have real osteoporosis; calcium & Vit D pills wouldn't do much for it. I was taking plenty of Calcium and Vit D3 when i got osteoporosis. I have to fight it with everything i can find-- except doctors' drugs. And no hormones, since i have 2 genes for blood clots, and hormones raise the risk for blood clots.
So, since i'm not on the doctors' osteoporosis drugs like Fosamax, I have to do impact exercise and resistance exercise, and i take Vit K2 menaquinone-4 (=menatetranone), and Strontium pills, and sage tea in the evening. When i did EVERYTHING in my program, my BDS showed BONE GROWTH. When i was doing LESS than everything, my BDS showed bone loss.
Yes, I'd like to test my 1,25 level, but the test is not always available to me.
My mother had severe osteoporosis--- it is a devastating condition.
Posted by B R H (Member # 12159) on :
quote:Originally posted by Truthfinder: ... and then crash and feel worse as the `steroid' effects of supplementation begin to manifest themselves.
So, in a sense, there are some small experiments going on here within LymeNet to `test' Marshall's theories.
I'm not sure Marshall's theories predict a crash, just that supplementation could reduce immune competence (in a variety of ways). In other words, I don't think his theories absolutely preclude someone from getting better while supplementing vitamin D. There are simply too many variables in such subjective tests to draw many useful conclusions. The mathematics behind the models is far more precise and, in my opinion, serves as a better guide.
Posted by B R H (Member # 12159) on :
FWIW, too much exposure to sunlight definitely increased my symptoms before & 8 months or so into MP. Exposure to light rarely bothers me these days, but I'm not eager to test this just yet.
Posted by B R H (Member # 12159) on :
If you ever do get your 1,25-D tested, please post the results. High values of 1,25-D have been associated with calcium resorption from bones & teeth. If the calcium didn't make it to your bones, I sure hope it didn't end up being deposited in other soft tissues!
I took 4000-5000 units of Vit D 3 a day for several months due to the prompting of a friend who does a lot of health-related research.
Well, my eyes started itching like crazy!
None of my Lyme symptoms got better.
I have low bone density, despite taking calcium/magnesium/vit. D for years and years.
When I got my Vit D tested, 25D was in normal range, but 1,25D was not--I had many symptoms of hypervitaminosis-D.
I have since cut way back on foods with Vit. D.
I have also taken herbs and antibiotics. Many of my Lyme symptoms are now gone, but some key ones remain.
Cass A
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
Reply to BRH: Fine, i'll have my 1,25 tested right away.
What is a crash? I'm not sure what a crash involves.
I have another way of determining the strength of my spine. My back communicates with me. I trust it; what it tells me agrees with the BDS scans. I'm really glad i have such a communicative spine. They say osteoporosis is "the silent disease"-- thank goodness my vertebrae talk to me, loudly and early!
Whenever i get certain little pains in my vertebrae, i check to see if i'm deficient in something: exercize, calcium, vitamin D, magnesium, or what, and there always is something i'm deficient in. I repair the deficiency, and the pains go away.
Also, I can weigh what i can comfortably carry. I started with 5 lb shoulder weights. The physical therapist told me 8 lb was enough for osteoporosis. I've gradually built up, and now i can carry 24 pounds of luggage with no problem, weighed in the bus station.
So, i'll definitely get the 1,25 tested, although my back tells me it's fine now.
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
Pam, thanks for your story and info about treating osteoporosis - this is a big problem for me. If you get your 1,25-D level checked, please post your results. I think Quest is the recommended lab for this, but I've seen postings from other labs, too. The `normal' values seem to be different depending on the lab.
BRH, a number of people have posted here about taking steroids prior to their Lyme diagnosis and how it just made the disease much worse for them in the long run (which is what I meant by a `crash'). If Marshall's theories are true about Vitamin D, won't the same thing happen to those supplementing with Vitamin D?
Another confusing thing is when you (or Marshall) refer to ``high values'' of 1,25-D. The Quest 1,25-D test `normal' value is between 15-60. But apparently, Marshall thinks anything above 45 should be considered high (re: bone resorption). So, referring to ``high values'' of 1,25-D is a bit of a misnomer since this is Marshall's conclusion, and not universally accepted.
Posted by B R H (Member # 12159) on :
Yes, "normal" or "in-range" values will differ, sometimes considerably, from one lab to the next & even from the same lab over time as they "tweak" their statistics. Also keep in mind that "normal" or "in-range" does not necessarily mean healthy. MP considers the ratio of 1,25-D to 25-D to be one of the better lab tests to confirm Th1 inflammation (which they believe is caused by cell-wall-deficient bacteria - a.k.a pleomorphisms, cysts, blebs, coccoids, l-forms, & sometimes even mycoplasmas).
I don't think it's correct to equate steroids to vitamin D, but there are similarities. Steroids are much "stronger." The vitamin D stuff is really complex & simply cannot be viewed as good or bad - it's more of a balancing act that your body controls to modulate your immune response. These bugs have basically evolved a means to mess up this finely tuned control system.
"Lyme Disease" would probably be cured by now if we all "crashed." That's probably the most frustrating aspect of all these chronic diseases. The "host" feels awful but is kept just healthy enough to ensure survival of the parasite.
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
If anyone is interested, I got some ideas about alternative osteoporosis treatments from www.osteopenia3.com.
Also, the type of calcium pill seemed to matter, in my case. It seems, because of some kind of possible malabsorption, that the only kinds of calcium pills that work for me, are:
"Bone Restore", Life Extension brand,= Calcium bisglycinate and Calcium fructoborate,that include Boron and B6--- not too expensive if you're a memeber
"Advacal", which is calcium oxide and calcium hydroxide, a bit expensive.
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
Pam, how is it you know which calcium supplements 'work' for you (without taking them for many months and then checking bone density, etc.)?
I found that I have to take what I can tolerate from a constipation standpoint.
Thanks for the link - I'll check into it. Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
To BRH and all: i'm posting my Vit D 1,25 results. My family doctor tested my Vit D1,25 without asking or telling me, and when he reported my results on the phone, I thought he meant Vit D 25, which he didn't test, so for a week i thought my Vit D 25 was low -- until i saw the print-out!
My Vit D 1,25 was 45, with a range of 22-67 for normal values.
So do you think that's all right?---- Thanks
Posted by DoctorLuddite (Member # 13853) on :
That level is fine. When a 1,25 level is too low or too high, the things that that regulate the production of the enzyme responsible for converting 25 hyroxy into 1,25 dihydroxy need to be looked at. While the alteration to the immune system that Lyme appears to cause can make that enzyme overactive, there are other things that can do it too. Parathyroid hormone can sometimes be produced in excess and outside of feedback control, as with a parathyroid adenoma, granulomatous disease and infections other than Lyme, ie: tuberculosis, for one, can cause granulomas to form and those granulomas elaborate the enzyme. Each reason can be ruled out, usually by simple tests, and if no explanation can be determined then assessing the response to gentle supplementation or sun exposure andor vitamin D restriction can be done. The 1,25 is not the test that should be done first, the 25 hydroxy is, so if that hasn't been tested it should be.
Posted by B R H (Member # 12159) on :
Did you have both 25-D & 1,25-D tested? It would be unusual for a doctor to order only the 1,25-D test, especially if you didn't specifically request only the 1,25-D test. Doctors very rarely test 1,25-D.
I believe 45 pg/mL for 1,25-D is exactly the upper limit recommended by Merck, but it's not quite as simple as that. Your 25-D matters as does whether or not you've been supplementing with vitamin D, taking steroids, other medications, supplements, etc.
You should post your test results at the MP or curemyth1.org website. They will ask these & other questions & give you a more detailed answer.
If your 25-D is also low (say below 25 ng/mL), you should definitely take the matter seriously in my opinion.
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
My Vit D 25 was tested 2 or 3 times in 2007; the last one was 89. I had been dosing Vit D2 at 50,000 IU's twice a week. After that reading, i cut the dose to alternating 50,000 IU's once a week/twice a week; which resulted in the Vit D 1,25 result at 45. I'll get the Vit D 25 tested soon again. Thanks for all the information!
Posted by tailz (Member # 10014) on :
My vitamin D was low. Maybe I have mycoplasma? Vitamin D makes me deathly ill and so does calcium.
I just read somewhere that high calcium and low iron means cancer somewhere in the body.
My first guess would be liver cancer because I had a liver lesion, but that appeared late - so if it is liver cancer, it simply spread to my liver from somewhere else.
My second guess would be lung or colon cancer, but again, breathing difficulties and diarrhea were later symptoms. Plus, they x-rayed my lungs enough times and did enough colonoscopies on me.
It would be some sort of lymphoma - enlarged, painless lymph nodes in my groin. They're still there. Why didn't he listen to me when I asked him to biopsy them? It's written like a joke in my record, "Patient thinks she has cancer."
What am I supposed to do? Biopsy the darn things myself?
If I ever don't log on for a month - I want an autopsy. That's my dying wish. Sorry, got off topic hear, but I'm having nightmares over this.
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
My tests: Parathyroid hormone: 42 (range is 10-65) Calcium: borderline - 8.7 (range is 8.6 - 10.2) Vitamin D 1,25 - Dihydroxy: 49 (range is 15-60) Vitamin D 25-OH, Total (see below): 16 - LOW (range is 20-100
I think the `ratio' that BRH refers to is evident in my tests - my D-1,25 level is 3 times higher than my D-25 level. (Correct me here if I'm wrong, BRH.)
Posted by gwenb (Member # 7217) on :
Truthfinder
Your Vitamin D 25-OH is, in my opinion, dangerously low. Vitamin D OH levels in that range make you more likely to succumb to a range of illnesses. Please go to Pubmed.com and review the hundreds of scientific papers on the virtues of healthy levels of Vitamin D. The Marshall Protocol is extremely controversial - so be very careful before accepting their recommendations.
Gwen
Posted by DoctorLuddite (Member # 13853) on :
I agree, 25 OH D is too low, but it is part of a delicate endocrine balance with feedback control, so you have to test supplementation carefully. First assess how much vitamin D you might be getting now by looking at all vitamins and supplements, and then how much you might be getting that is naturally occuring in foods, ie: organ meats, fish, eggs from free range chickens...there aren't many foods that have naturally occuring Vit. D...Then find a D supplement that specifically states that it is "naturally occuring from {fish or cod} liver oil, these usually come in 400 IU doses, but occasionally you will find a 1000 IU, and I have seen just one 2000 IU fish derived D product. Start low and go slow, ie: take 400IU once daily (regardless of what your background D intake is) and increase by 400 IU per day every 3 days. Stop increasing when you notice a positive effect or when you reach a dose of 2000IU/day and maintain that daily dose until you get consistent daily sun exposure at midday, if you have negative effects early on other than what you might consider to be mild herxing, stop alltogether, more eval is necessary. Remember when you are doing this that if you happen to go out at noon on a very sunny day, that you might get a D surge, but if you have gotten your body used to a dose of 2000 IU per day this might not be noticeable...
[ 01. February 2008, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: DoctorLuddite ]
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
Thanks, Gwen and Doc Luddite.
I've been supplementing with Vit D3 since I had those tests done late in October. I don't think the D3 I'm taking is from fish oil - I e-mailed the company that makes it to find out and never heard from them. I'm sure it's from lanolin. Unfortunately, part of this type of D3 is in my calcium supplement, and this is one of the few calcium supplements I've ever been able to tolerate. So, I guess I'll just have to get the fish-oil type for my additional supplementation and not worry about it.
I have been ramping up VERY slowly with both the calcium and the D3. No negative symptoms, although I seem to be having some trouble with some kind of infection in my L eye, which I think got started with the first cold I had. So, I don't think it is the Vit D affecting my eye, but some kind of bug. I'm working on that....
Anyway, I plan to start adding more D3 at a little faster rate now.
Too bad my Carlson Norwegian Salmon Oil doesn't list Vit D as an ingredient. Shouldn't it be in there naturally?
One other question.... you can't absorb Vitamin D from the sun through glass, can you? (Like driving in a car or sitting in front of a window, etc.)
Posted by DoctorLuddite (Member # 13853) on :
Most glass used commercially is made by a process called "floating", that is: molten glass is poored on a pool of molten tin, it then settles evenly and the thickness will then be uniform and can be controlled precisely. The glass hardens before the tin as the two cool, so the tin can be drained and will leave the "floatglass" behind. this glass will have a molecule thick coating of tin on it which acts to filter certain rays of the sun, plus additives can be put in the glass that will add to the UV blocking, so you might not make much D from sitting in front of a sunny window. Oddly enough though, I get an almost drug like sleepiness when sitting in the sun outdoors, and sometimes the same feeling when sitting in a sunny window...shortly after spending time in a tanning booth too, for that matter. I think it is due to a sudden increase of D, who knows? Salmon oil is distilled from the body of the fish and probably has some D but not of a significant enough amount to bother mentioning it on the label. The liver of fish is where the A & D accumulate, so the concentration is worthy of putting on the label of fish liver oil. Cod liver oil has been in use since 1824, it's experience tested.
Posted by IMHisda (Member # 6998) on :
Azure:
Hi. I had very low Vitamin D and my doc put me on Vitamin D drops ( I think they're from Biotics) and it has helped tremendously energy wise. I take it along with this stuff called Cell Food which has dissolved oxygen in it and I feel so much better the next day. Especially if I have my tsp of liquid magnesium drowned in some juice the night before. I was burned out on swallowing pills so she put me on the drops and it really tastes OK in water and really helps.
Posted by IMHisda (Member # 6998) on :
Low vit. D makes you more suceptible to more autoimmune disease (just what we need)!
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
Thanks, Doc. I, too, get so sleepy from being in the sun - outdoors or in front of a window.
I think your skin still reacts to the sun, even through a slightly-tinted car window. I remember going on a trip for several days and the arm that was not next to the window was definitely lighter in color.
I used to take Cod Liver Oil, but I just could not stand to have fish burps the whole day. I don't have that with the Salmon Oil gelcaps.
Thanks for the tip on the liquid D drops, BR - didn't realize it came in liquid form. I have some Cell Food, too, but waiting to get my D supplementation where I want it before starting something new.
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