Benicar is a key medication used for the Marshall Protocol. I've had FAR more success on this protocol than any other.
Inflammation was a major issue for me before MP, as I suspect it is for most people with any chronic tick-borne illness. I too was worried about starting Benicar because my BP was perfectly normal, even a little low at times & I've experience significant orthostatic hypotension in the past.
I did the research & found that Benicar was indeed one of the safest drugs in the entire U.S. formulary. My doctor agreed. It is actually a poor medication for lowering BP in that it does not significantly lower blood pressure. The effect on BP is also independent of dose after you reach the maximum normal dose (about 40 mg taken once daily - MP dose is that amount taken 4 times daily). In other words, taking more does not decrease your BP more. My BP has dropped a measly 10%.
Higher doses do have more anti-inflammatory benefits though. Many people notice those effects within the first few days. I sure did. I slept like a baby for the first time in years once I started Benicar.
Benicar, especially when taken at higher doses, also changes your immune response, for better or worse. Keep in mind that my only experience with Benicar has been on the Marshall Protocol & that MP is FAR more than just taking Benicar alone. The combination of prescriptions you take on MP works differently than the same medications taken individually.
I wouldn't take Benicar without following the MP guidelines to the letter. If you are taking high doses of antibiotics & add Benicar to that, you could be in for trouble! A "runaway" herx is nothing to mess around with! The power of our immune systems is amazing & must be treated with great respect!
Posted by cottonbrain (Member # 13769) on :
B R H,
thanks for the reply! I'm so glad for you that the MP is helping. I hear some people slam the MP, but I don't really understand why.
I don't seem to be on the regular MP because here's what i'm taking:
benicar - 10 mg 2x day
zith 600 mg every other day
mino 100 mg every other day
yikes, after reading your post and checking out the MP site, I hope I don't go herx-wild! i already started getting a herx just on the second day afterthe mino,
but adding the benicar may have reduced the herx, or else it quit on its own.
I also take b12 and folic acid, which it looks like the MP does not recommend. I'm also on the buhner core protocol.
May i ask which of your symptoms have improved with the MP, and how long you have been on it?
Posted by cottonbrain (Member # 13769) on :
thanks,keebler, for the connection!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
"I'm concerned that an ARB (Angiotensin Receptor Blocker) is being used in CFIDS patients [via MarshallProtocol.com] without an awareness of its effect on "Q."
Big issue [with MarshallProtocol.com]! If you block AT1 with an ARB [like Benicar], down will go your Aldosterone, and down will go your blood volume, and you could be in a heap of trouble [i.e. Addison Syndrome].
ARBs that bind to AT1 will constrict blood volume [which is unhealthy with PWCs].
I'm also concerned that the other receptor [AT2] is being ignored. No one knows what it does. Not even Merck! I suspect that it has an immune effect.
An ARB like Benicar selectively binds very tightly to AT1, resulting in a two--to three-fold increase of Angiotensin II, which then binds to the wide-open AT2 receptor. And who knows what kind of immune responses that is setting off. This is just speculation, but I am concerned [over the safe use of Benicar for CFS].
"I don't believe that you can block a regulatory pathway [with Benicar],..... you[MarshallProtocol.com] have no idea what that thing is doing and then hope that down the road everything will be rosy."
My doctor just ordered my vitamin D level tests as I've been preparing/studing the MP . . . to just see if I could handle the benicar alone, even, I took just 10 mg for two nights. On day three, a startle seizure zaps me while walking past a car when its engine started.
Benicar, for me, did increase my already constant vertigo. However, it also resulted in a feeling of relief - less pressure - like I had just gotten out of a tight plastic bag.
The startle seizures I have may have a connection to the QT syndrome that Cheney mentioned in excerpt above. So, I need to look at this more carefully.
I am not saying to anyone, don't do this or that, but if someone is prone to myclonic activity or severe sickening feeling from startles, just be sure your studies are thorough and that compensation factors for possible risks are in place.
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Posted by cottonbrain (Member # 13769) on :
keebler, thanks for the links! very interesting info. I really don't know what to think now -- i wish there were some definitive answers.
But my head is about to explode from the benicar. that stuff is giving me a headache from deviltown!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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you might be sure to get electrolytes . . . potassium and water, of course. Even the regular benicar can really deplete liquids and even blood volume.
give your doctor a call . . . perhaps ask about lowering the dose, easing up to it. And, maybe reading some of the information at the MP site. Although you are not doing that, there may be some good hints. www.curemyth1.org or http://bacteriality.com .
I know this all seems complicated - and it is - we should all be awarded a team a grad students to do the research and report back to us.
might magnesium help the headache ? Cat's claw really helped me get back on an even keel today. I don't know if that is okay with the rest of whatever you are doing, though.
Good luck.
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[ 10. March 2008, 02:47 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by B R H (Member # 12159) on :
Don't judge Benicar by the trials either of you have done. The small doses are COMPLETELY different than the larger doses used on MP. The anti-inflammatory & VDR effects don't occur (at all) until you take the higher doses used on MP.
Also, MUCH smaller doses of antibiotics are FAR more effective at killing CWD bacteria. Larger doses than those used on MP seem to actually be immunosuppressive.
Posted by cottonbrain (Member # 13769) on :
B R H -- how high a dose before the benicar becomes effective?
I'm on day 7 and finally coming out of the benicar nausea and sleepiness, but i had to back down to 5 mg a a day.
remind me what VDR means?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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The MP uses much higher doses than 5 mg - However, as BHR said, to go higher, as in the MP, it is very important to do it by the book.
Getting the vitamin D levels tested first to see if one is a candidate for the MP in the first place. A particular diet while on the MP is vital, too. Special sunglass to protect the eyes are required as is certain clothing to avoid sunburn when out of doors. Info. at the links below.
Very good point he makes about the difference in trying out the Rx and really doing the protocol. WIth that, I'm swaying back to take another look while waiting for my test results.
[ 13. March 2008, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by mushroomman06 (Member # 13088) on :
Started treatment for LYME on 4-26-07.
On 9-26-07 Benicar 20mg daily was added to my treatment program. Crestor 5mg daily was also added.
On 11-27-07 Benciar was increased to 60mg daily.
Blood work came back in Dec. 07 and my liver AST and ALT counts had elevated. LLMD stopped Crestar and dropped Benciar back to 20mg a day.
My liver counts where always in the low teens. Has anybody else had these counts increase when using Benciar or Crestar?
Have blood work scheduled later this month, hope these liver counts are back to normal.
The Benicar and Crestar where added to my treatment as my LLMD said this helps the blood flow maintain a steady flow and this will help in LYME treatment.
Posted by Cold Feet (Member # 9882) on :
Benicar is generally well-tolerated, even in high doses...except with people with really high pathogenic loads. I've seen some people herx just going on Benicar, 3-4 doses of 40 mG daily.
Crestar, on the other hand, can cause a number of side-effects. Just look it up on the web: carefully review the medical web sites and even the blogs for some surprising stories of ill effects.
It's interesting to see Benicar being added to treatment regimes. I think that's good, as it really is an amazing medication. It has been for me, as I've been taking it for 17 months now as part of the Marshall Protocol. It does so many beneficial things to chronically infected patients it boggles my mind.
My thinking is that liver enzymes can go crazy during the initial phase of Benicar administration, for lots of reasons I don't even pretend to understand. It's good your doc is looking at these, though, as the liver is so often neglected. It's such a critical organ!