This is topic After Treatment you don't have Lyme- You have PLS, etc in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.


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Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8856619?dopt=Abstract


1: J Rheumatol. 1996 Aug;23(8):1392-7.
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Clinical and neurocognitive features of the post Lyme syndrome.

Bujak DI, Weinstein A, Dornbush RL.

Department of Medicine, New York Medical College, Valhalla 10595, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate neurocognitive impairment in patients with persistent arthralgia, fatigue, and subjective memory loss in patients after Lyme disease (post-Lyme syndrome, PLS).

METHODS: We compared the clinical, neurocognitive, and psychological features of 23 patients with PLS to 23 age, sex, and education matched recovered patients (REC).

All met Centers for Disease Control criteria for Lyme disease, were ELISA positive at onset of Lyme disease and were previously treated with standard antibiotic regimens.

RESULTS: Of the patients with PLS, 7 (30%) had fibromyalgia (FM), 3 (13%) had chronic fatigue syndrome, and 10 (43%) had similar but milder symptoms but did not meet the criteria for either.

22 of 23 patients with PLS complained of decreased memory or concentration problems. Patients with PLS had significantly lower scores on the attention/concentration scale (p = 0.012) of the Wechsler Memory Scale-Revised (WMS-R), indicating lowered attention/concentration.

52% of patients with PLS and 35% in the REC group had significantly lower (p 0.05) WMS-R verbal memory scores than visual memory scores. The PLS group had subjectively more problems with sleep and mood changes and higher scores on several scales of Symptom Check List 90-R (p 0.01), indicating greater physical distress.

Beck Depression Inventory scores were also higher for the PLS than the REC group (p 0.005), but were within the normal range.

CONCLUSION: Despite antibiotic treatment, a sequelae of Lyme disease may be a PLS characterized by persistent arthralgia, fatigue, and neurocognitive impairment that is probably induced by Lyme disease.

Publication Types:
Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't
Research Support, U.S. Gov't, P.H.S.

PMID: 8856619 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
 
And note- isn't this idiot conclusion coming from the home of Wormser himself?

I've figured out what they are saying.. and it boils down to this...

After standard antibiotic treatment you don't have Lyme anymore- you have fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, decreased memory and concentration problems, sleep and mood problems and you suffer from greater distress.

THAT'S ALL FOLKS!

[puke]
 
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
 
tincup,

help my neuro mind ok; nothing personal on this ... curiosity.

noticed you had several things tonight going back to 1996 and 1999; is this to show us things have NOT CHANGED during this time, and their/IDSA's mentality ??

sorry, i'm just not following this; so wise one, please enlighten me!

COME ON BABY, LIGHT MY FIRE! [Big Grin] [lol] [kiss] [group hug]
 
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
 
Van Morrison?

Who did "light my fire"? I can't remember? That is who popped in my head when I saw your post anyhow.. silly girl. HA!

[Big Grin]

Good question.

I guess I am posting these things as a way to release some anger first of all. If I didn't scream now and then about all this GARBAGE I have to dig through..

I do believe my head would explode.

Second... I think folks who are new should know how FREAKING stupid these people are and see them for what they are. When we tell people to go to a LLMD rather than the IDSA ducks... these are some of the reasons why.

When we need them to jump on the band wagon to fight and help us win this war... these are some of the reasons why.

Third.. I am deep and filthy dirty in IDSA poop right now while researching for projects I have to do.. and as I stumble across things that are interesting or telling... especially when the IDSA Bumsteere gangs are now saying again that there is no such thing as "chronic Lyme".. etc...

I figured others might be interested too. It shows these lame brains have no clue.

And... I figure folks who haven't had Lyme, etc for more than a couple years may never have seen this stuff.

Kind of a selective, custom made history lesson... without having to wade through ALL the IDSA poo-poo to get the bottom line.

[Big Grin]

BTW- This is only my opinion.

[Razz]
 
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
 
I think they know but they don't want the public to know. I have seen their old writings from the 90s.
 
Posted by robi (Member # 5547) on :
 
Jose Feliciano
 
Posted by Michelle M (Member # 7200) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by robi:
Jose Feliciano

But originally (and IMHO best) by The Doors/Jim Morrison.

Michelle
 
Posted by ByronSBell 2007 (Member # 11496) on :
 
PLS..........what a joke [bonk]
 
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
 
Yes, the Doors. When they sang it live on the Ed Sullivan Show, they were supposed to leave out a sexually suggestive part (the word "higher") .... but they didn't! LOL http://archives.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/TV/10/03/ed.sullivan.sidebar/

I am assuming that the discussion of "Light My Fire" is the important part of this thread? (If you could hear my voice you would hear the sarcasm better).
 
Posted by just don (Member # 1129) on :
 
Glad you posted this oh Tin one!! NOW I know why I feel the way I do!!! I have PLS,,maybe they will give me something to FEEL better NOW!!!

Whew,,,all this searching and searching and I had PLS the whole while!! WHY didnt they tell me sooner??

NOW If I claim to NOT be able to type(which I cant) maybe I would typo that into PMS!!! thinks--just don--
 
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
 
I think a rule on this site is no cussing, SO I will just say BS.

I don't care what these idiots print or what their studies supposedly show....I'm a intelligent (somewhat) woman. If I would only learn to spell check my post.

I used to be a productive hard working Corp. American, tax paying, law abiding citizen, sane and mostly healthy American.

I was treated early on from onset of obvisious symptoms. By "their" protocol. It failed. In fact, my doc knew how ill I was and he kept me on abx even with 2 negative WB.

After, it looked like I could lose it all (my career, my life, our home, our retirement home), I finally was forced to travel 8 hrs one way to see a LLMD.

My insurance company refused to pay for anything starting with my 3rd visit to LLMD. Oh, the self-insuranced company that I worked for 28 yrs did pay on my scripts from LLMD. As long as I had them filled at their pharmacy.

They really didn't have a choice there, my husband also works for the same company(32 yrs).
His script insurance covers family.

I could go back and add up everything I've spent in the last 10 yrs to fight this "non-existing" condition. It would blow a wealthy persons mind.
Even a specialist or scienctist mind and earnings.

So don't tell me I have PLS or any other stupid illness. I'm wise enough to know what I have.
They can label me whatever they want. They aren't in charge of my health and well being.

I am. Now, you've really fired me up TC.

Pam

[ 04. April 2008, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: map1131 ]
 
Posted by B R H (Member # 12159) on :
 
I don't see the problem. It's clear to me that for many of us, eliminating the "Lyme bacteria" does not eliminate the disease. It's a waste of time & energy to argue otherwise.

Try having a more open mind to the thought that both schools of thought can actually co-exist. FWIW, Marshall's theories explain the contradictions so many of you see in these debates.

The bottom line is that a tick bite did something that drastically altered our health. I don't care what it's called as long as it continues to be recognized as the serious health issue it certainly is.
 
Posted by nellypointis (Member # 1719) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by adamm:
Of course these guys know! They created the bacterium

in their labs!

Saying this is the kind of rubbish that can discredit the whole world wide Lyme community.

Bb have been all over the world for...ever! Stop fantasizing.

Nelly (in France)
 
Posted by IMHisda (Member # 6998) on :
 
The Doors, Jim Morrison
 
Posted by hostbody (Member # 12695) on :
 
Thanks Tin Cup for the chuckle!
 
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
 
I agree with you BRH. Does it really matter what it's called?

The tests are supposedly inaccurate so how can anyone tell what's actually happening.

The spirochetes can transform, morph, exude toxins, evade detection, etc.

We really don't know if we are ill from spirochetes or what they may leave behind.

As for nellypointis statements... spirochetes may have ben around for thousands of years but the strain that caused Lyme disease has not. Maybe you should read Lab 257 by M. Carroll...
 
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
 
tincup, old wise one; thanks for the good explanation on my question.

see there has been some lively conversation here.

talked to 1 newbie tonight who had NEVER heard of the lyme controversy and was disgusted that now she's involved in this too in order to try to get a good LLMD to treat her vs. 2 wks. of abx they were going to give her only!

HOG WASH, BS; it's all the same thing coming from IDSA. i'll save my energy on reading other people's stuff and replying.

wow, the membership here is of MY GENERATION!! [Wink] [lol] [hi]
 
Posted by treepatrol (Member # 4117) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by B R H:
I don't see the problem. It's clear to me that for many of us, eliminating the "Lyme bacteria" does not eliminate the disease. It's a waste of time & energy to argue otherwise.

Try having a more open mind to the thought that both schools of thought can actually co-exist. FWIW, Marshall's theories explain the contradictions so many of you see in these debates.

The bottom line is that a tick bite did something that drastically altered our health. I don't care what it's called as long as it continues to be recognized as the serious health issue it certainly is.

Bull
 
Posted by treepatrol (Member # 4117) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by sparkle7:
I agree with you BRH. Does it really matter what it's called?

The tests are supposedly inaccurate so how can anyone tell what's actually happening.

The spirochetes can transform, morph, exude toxins, evade detection, etc.

We really don't know if we are ill from spirochetes or what they may leave behind.

As for nellypointis statements... spirochetes may have ben around for thousands of years but the strain that caused Lyme disease has not. Maybe you should read Lab 257 by M. Carroll...

Yes it matters what its called a dog is dog a cat is a cat. To say otherwise is a lie
 
Posted by B R H (Member # 12159) on :
 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by treepatrol:
Yes it matters what its called a dog is dog a cat is a cat. To say otherwise is a lie/QUOTE]

Okee dokee.
 


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