I wonder if there is any correlation to exercise and getting into remission.
Who here actually does hardcore exercise at least 5 times a week (I know that is counter to the good Dr.Burrascano's guidelines, who says moderate exercise only).
By hardcore I mean at least 45 to 60 minutes of heart pounding exercise at least 5 times a week. For example running outside, spinning, aerobics, circuit training, etc.
It might be a cool experiment to try out for at least a couple of months and then report back how you feel (for those that can safely do it, obviously).
I just feel like it might be the magic key to kick start an immune response that can deal a blow to all the various infections.
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
my two youngest kids do (24 and 25 yrs)
i am convinced this is why they are doing so well-seem to be in remission (altho i see occasional symptoms)
their bodies and brains are working -lots of stamina
it makes sense-Bb doesn't like heat or O2
i think dr b is researching exercise-his guidelines do say moderate...but i think he is looking deeper now
Posted by daise (Member # 13622) on :
Hello,
If we do "heart pounding" exercise, in other words aerobic exercise, that eats our energy and hurts our illness.
We need our energy to stave off Lyme & company.
I am much better because I did Dr. B's recommendations for exercise, three times a week.
daise Posted by ByronSBell 2007 (Member # 11496) on :
When I get healed I will begin heavy lifting again like I was before I got sick. I think that is why it took me a while to get sick because I got sick after football/workout season ended.
Posted by proudtoserve (Member # 14811) on :
This would be a good idea if I even had enough energy to get through a normal day.
I cant see this as being practical for me.
Believe me I have tried to exercise and felt like was having a heart attack during exercise and was crud the rest of the day.
Hope it would work for others able to workout.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Well, I don't quite fit your criteria, but I do exercise regularly. I either do 20-30 min. of the elliptical plus 30-40 min. of weightlifting (free weights) or play racquetball and lift weights. I try to go 4 times per week.
Earlier in treatment I didn't do the elliptical, but did the weights even on a bad day. There were literally days I got out of bed to go to the gym, then went home and went back to bed.
I'm not in remission, but my LLMD has said I am responding much better than the norm to the meds.
Generally, people who lift weights take breaks between days to avoid over-training, which is bad for the adrenal glands and muscles. I work out the upper body one day, lower the next, then a 24 hour break. That's why I don't have a 5 day schedule. You can do a 5 day schedule on a limited basis.
I don't think exercise alone is enough for someone who is very ill. I was exercising regularly and hard when my health was declining.
However, years ago, exercise was a big part of what put me in remission, prior to knowing it was Lyme I was dealing with. I was not nearly as ill then.
Posted by Lily (Member # 13158) on :
I exercise "hard core'. Currently I had a bad relapse about 7 weeks ago. This is my first and hopefully my last relapse I am quite acute right now so I am not training.
After I was symptom free back in January, I started slowly back up to my routine. I exercise 4-5 times per week.
I actually relapsed unexpectantly. I was coming home from the gym. Got in the shower and noticed my "rash". By the morning I was deep in the throws of serious joint pain.
Both time I have been ill, exercise is out. My joints are attacked ruthlessly and constantly.
I am so looking forward to being back on my routine!
I love to exercise!
Lily
Posted by Clarissa (Member # 4715) on :
My brother and sister-in-law always kept up their exercise during their Lyme/Babesia treatment. Even if it was just walking slowly on the treadmill for 15 minutes a couple times a week.
Cut to six years later: They're both in complete remission and running several marathons (each) yearly.
So, yes, if you're able to exercise, it absolutely helps. Unfortuntaely, a lot of us have not been able to walk up & down the stairs much less scurry off to the gym.
I am currently in remission and hit the gym 3 times this week and did 45-60 minutes of cardio each time. It felt amazing but it was because I was ready.
There's no way I could have done that 4 mos ago when I was agressively treating my Bart.
Like everything in life, it's a delicate dance and a balance.
Best,
Posted by lymebytes (Member # 11830) on :
I knew a woman w/Ld who ran daily and was well in 8 months.
Also, Les Roberts author of the Poison Plumb - in his own personal battle w/LD he says aerobic exercise helped him immensely to recover.
I think each person should make a program that works for them. Burrascano always makes it a point to stress the fact (at conferences) that if you don't exercise you won't get well, that it is more important than the abx. In fact he said something to the effect that we can take abx forever, w/o exercise we simply won't get well.
I know I always feel my best when I break a sweat. Exercise without sweating to me personally, isn't exercise and that is when I hit a "feel good" point.
My teen son w/LD is into stressful exercise (weight lifting) our LLMD told him this..."If you feel a little shaky after your workout, that is ok, if you feel shaky and sick, you have gone too far".
Take care.
Posted by sfcharm (Member # 9392) on :
I'm currently on Rocephin IV for 10 months. I hope to do a year. I am not sure where I would be without my excercise.
I do 30 minutes on the elliptical three/four days a week. I also walk two days a week for an hour.
My excercise has been from day one of my treatment (June 06 started antibiotics). I started moderately as Dr. Burrascano recommended and in the last year have increased it to five/six days a week.
Again for me I don't think I'd be well without it. I'd say I'm 80-90% back to normal.
Barb
Posted by heatherliveswithlyme (Member # 14890) on :
I just go to Curves to hang out and talk. Very light exercise.
I'm s l o w l y building up to regular exercise.
Posted by sonicbmx (Member # 12949) on :
i've been on a 30 day break from yoga and training on my stationary trainer (bike) due to herxing.
was training at easy to moderate levels for cross-country. i find these levels difficult b/c i'm a sprinter and prefer shorter, more intense workouts.
a session is 60+ mins with heart rates between 104-128 or 128-152 bpm 5x wk. power yoga lasts for 25 mins 6x wk.
herxing began in April after adding back 1G Rocephin, DMSA and several supplements (GSE, Olive Leaf Extract, LiverNorm, Chlorella, TF LymPlus, TF Multi-Immune, Mangosteen).
bumped Rocephin back to 2G last wk and added DMSA again.. been flat since late April (no energy).
i was weak during two XC races i did in April but i continued & finished. it was important for me so i could gauge myself (stamina, relapse, recovery).
i did not relapse and i recovered well.. but i decided not to do anymore XC events until i'm well.
i no longer push myself if/when i feel weak.. the immune system can do without the stress. my CD-57 dipped to 39 (was 50 in Dec07). -- sonicbmx
Posted by lymednva (Member # 9098) on :
I think a lot of things come into play when discussing exercise for Lymies.
One is how long you h ave been ill. Another would be what types of symptoms you have.
I have orthostatic intolerance, so for a long time even standing was exhausting to me.
I still have exercise intolerance. I walked part way around my block on Sunday and spent yesterday in bed.
My LLMD and I have discussed this and agree that when I am ready walking is probably the best thing to start with.
My community has an indoor walking track, so I can use it when it's really hot, wet, or too cold outside.
I do find I am able to walk further when it's cold. Not sure why.
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
exercise has always helped me immensely.
during the times i have felt my best over the last 18 months of this hell, it has been during the periods where i have been able to do light exercise such as yoga and pilates.
currently i am really excited because my apt complex pool just opened so i started swimming 20 min a day which is great because its light impact and i can handle it..
once i am feeling some better i will begin pilates again and from there back to heavy weight training.
i understand and relate to those who can barely walk, it is difficult for me as well some days.
the pain is just too much, especially in the knees on a lot of days.
better health to all..
derek
Posted by Peacesoul (Member # 13709) on :
I've been sick for over 14 yrs and was bed ridden. I took up body building 9 yrs ago and worked out heavy 6 days a week. My belief, it's what made me fucntional again. Within 2 months of working out, I was rarely sick. I had to stop working out when I started those dreaded abx. I was too sick and tired to lift. Though through it all, I've still swam once or twice a week and power walked. I'll be heading back into the gym again very soon.
There are different levels of lyme sickness. Some sufferers can't even get out of bed, let alone exercise.
It's very encouraging to hear about how you all still exericse. This is a great thread
Posted by lou4656 (Member # 10300) on :
For those who are exercising, or those who would like to add exercise, we have a Walkers/Hikers/Movers thread over in General Support. We are there to encourage and support anyone that wants to add exercise as part of their healing.
Those of us who are part of that group are at various levels of exercise. Some people are struggling to get one foot in front of the other . . . and other people are incorporating exercise into their daily living.
We welcome anyone who would like to join us.
Posted by lymeHerx001 (Member # 6215) on :
Cant do it.
Cant do even 20 mintues on level 3. Im in pain the second I get off and the next morning is like suicide.
This is why I am upset at my LLMD and told him that I am getting worse.
But then again, I couldnt excercise like that in 2003 either.
Within 2 years alcohol plus lyme and mycoplasma just about disabled me.
In 2001 I was doing well. I wish I knew then what I know now.
I loved my excersise!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
-
Not everyone is the same - or even has the same microbial mix - the same level of liver detox - the same genetic make-up.
It is hard when we want to move like the wind to be having a rock day (or year).
Finding activities or interests to substitute may be hard at first, but even just sitting in the park gets one out. Breathing exercises even can be very helpful.
One of my liver doctors said that the liver plays a huge roll in exercise tolerance. The liver has to be able to keep up or it can create a more toxic load. The more effective the liver, the more one is able to exercise. Certain types of hypo-tension and autonomic nervous systems quirks also can play into it.
Several authors have addressed exercise intolerance issues at length. There are many other factors and other entire threads on that and some of the supplements or advice to understand and work with it in various manners. (d-Ribose is seeing some good results.)
I used to swim an hour a day. That is just a dream now, but I think the thing to remember is to try to enjoy something. If one can get past the sadness of forced stillness, even a meditation of imagining how fun it would be to have a day of skiing or swimming or hiking in the woods (I'm dreaming, so, yes, a whole day - okay?).
Tai Chi and Qi Gong - or yoga - all have many forms that can suit many different physiological differences. Surprisingly, any of these can gently strengthen balance, tone muscles and increase endurance. Even just watching a video can have physiological effects.
-
Posted by lou4656 (Member # 10300) on :
Keebler -- You said it all so beautifully.
We are all individual and should not compare ourselves to someone else. And every little bit does help in healing. For me, meditation was what enabled me to really start healing.
Exercise came much later.
And, like I said earlier, some people are struggling to get out of bed every day, and other people are walking miles.
Do what you can without harm to yourself.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
This is a tricky issue. I've never been an athlete but I did ride my bike to the YMCA & go swimming, use the exercise equipment, etc. when I was well.
I thought I had Fibro & all of that stopped. I was too weak & in too much pain. It was a disappointment. If I tried doing some stretching, I would easily throw my back out & be in severe pain for months.
I always try to go for a walk around the block. I just don't push it. I really like swimming & I have a rebounder. So, I try to do that when I can. I don't have a YMCA membership - so, I have to wait until the summer to go swimming again.
I have some 2 lb weights that I use when I'm up to it.
The problem for me is, is that when I exercise it increases the endorphins. So, I get a false sense of well being. Then, I keep exercising. If I overdo it, I have to stay in bed all day to recover.
Exercise may be good but I think you have to know your limits. It also depends on how ill you are & your individual factors.
I don't know if you can exercise Lyme away. It just may be part of the recovery process to gradually increase it. It's also tricky because when you're herxing - you really don't want to tax your body too much.
In my case, I feel like I'm really out of shape. It seems like a good idea to not let yourself go too far in losing muscle tone.
Seem like it's best to try to find a balance & be moderate.
Posted by lou4656 (Member # 10300) on :
I think you really have to listen to your body. And like you said . . . balance is very important.
I don't really like exercise, but now that I have been walking for a few months, my body feels stronger.
I recently added weights. Results for me are slow coming, but I think that is because I am trying not to push myself beyond my limit.
But I am getting stronger. And thus, healthier.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
-
I think we have to ask why we want to do heavy exercise. Answers will be varied, but, looking back, I think I was sort of just running scared and wanted to ignore what my body was telling me.
In the early stages of being very ill and not knowing what was happening, I'd push and push, actually punishing myself for being so weak.
I wanted to measure up to others, look like the healthy bunch I'd see passing me by, so to speak. I had this image I was determined to achieve. I knew only one way: work harder.
And I just wanted to FEEL the wind on my face, the HIGH, the fun and joy of going as fast as I could.
In my case, pushing too hard caused severe setbacks of months, if not some measure of permanent diminished capacity. But, I never had any treatment in that time. (It was assumed I was "fine" because the few tests doctors ran came back "fine" (unless years later all the TBI tests flew off the page.)
While some seem to be able to do more exercise than others, without post-fatigue, I think the most important question I might have asked myself long ago is just what happens to the body when an infection is present and hard exercise is pushed.
It's important to understand the scientific process of the various bacteria - or other viruses - as well as the physiological requirements of our heart, brain, immune system and adrenal systems. All that knowledge then is best coupled with advice on from our doctor and knowing just what nutrients we can utilize for support for safety.
The studies on using d-Ribose before exercise seem promising - and protective for the fatigued heart.
Adrenal herbs such as ashwagandah and Siberian Ginseng also seem to add some protective measures in tests of endurance in normal people (w/o infections).
======================================
In his guidelines, Dr. B. states: "Aerobics are not allowed until nearly fully recovered"
TREATING CHRONIC LYME DISEASE J. J. Burrascano, MD April 24, 2004 outlined section:
. ENFORCED REST; NO CAFFEINE
- Must try to prevent afternoon energy sags - Proper sleep is essential
. REHAB AND EXERCISE PROGRAM
- Required for a full recovery
- Intermittent program one to three days per week
- Toning, stretching, posture, balance
- Aerobics are not allowed until nearly fully recovered
[Post-polio expert] Dr. [Richard] Bruno points out that physical over-activity is the biggest cause of post-polio symptoms. [3] (See Dr. Bruno's "Fainting and Fatigue" in the Spring 1996 CFIDS Chronicle, page 37.)
when mice infected with Coxsackie B3 were forced to swim in a warm pool, the virulence of the virus was drastically augmented.
In fact, viral replication was augmented 530 times. This did horrendous things to the animals' hearts. We all know that to play squash with the flu can lead to heart attacks.
Much the same danger can be courted by undertaking hard exercise with M.E. (M.E. is what CFS is called in the UK).
======================================
Interestingly, about a year ago, I was tested for various Coxsackie virus strains. Many were rather high. I had no idea.
So, I guess I'm always here with caution because there will be people new to fatigue and chronic infections who just want to push, push, push to "run like the wind" for various reasons, not the least of which that it can feel great sometimes.
And, that might work for some. Or it might not. If not, it's not always a matter of pushing harder, but wiser - at least until one is out of the woods.
=======================================
Even for those who can do great things now, this article offers some detail about body systems and support during a chronic illness. It also might help to share with friends and family members.
By Dr. Christopher R. Snell, Dr. J. MarkVanNess and Staci R. Stevens, et.al.
THE CFIDS CHRONICLE SUMMER 2004
excerpt:
``The activity should be restorative, or analeptic, serving to relieve, not exacerbate, symptoms. Redefining exercise in this way acknowledges that a cookie-cutter approach to exercise therapy for CFIDS will not work because one size does not fit all.
To be successful, any exercise program should be tailored to match the individual patient's functionality and symptom fluctuations.''
======================================
And, one of the supplements that has consistently helped me the most is Siberian Ginseng - some good reading here:
[ 28. May 2008, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
I too was a heavy trainer, in bodybuilding, rugby, football, basketball, you name it, I played it.
I do a lot of aerobic exercise, and while I'm told to avoid it, I think it actually improves my symptoms as long as I don't go beyond what my body tells me is acceptable.
There is a fine line that everyone has. Some can't exercise at all beyond moving a finger, but others can lift their arms, some can walk, some can even run -- but it's best to keep the pounding off the joints, swim, ride a bike, walk -- and or just use some light handweights.
It's even better if people do physical therapy as they're rehabilitating, as long as they tell the therapist exactly what they have, and how they're bodies respond to exercise.
This is only useful in people who are on treatment and moving towards recovery, not people in acute stages or too sick to even walk to the bathroom.
Posted by Dawnee (Member # 15089) on :
I don't do much exercise yet... but I really really want to! I love a good workout with lots of sweating! My problem is that when I exercise, even just a little, my hands start tremoring and I get shaky. It scares me a bit to be honest. The way I see it though... If I'm working out and causing the Lyme buggers to get all stirred up, then I am killing more with my antibiotics by bringing them out of hiding. If I'm going for a job and getting lots of oxygen, then the lyme is getting all ****ed off and moving around and ZAP my body is killing them! I have NO IDEA if thats how it's working lol... but it's what I imagine in my mind when I work out. It's what I imagine when I get the tremor and shakes afterwards. Makes me feel like I'm getting to the neuro bugs as well.. all that good oxygen coursing through my veins. But no... I haven't done a lot of heavy exercising. I'm about to start working my way up to it though. I just can't see how exercise could be bad for me..since most of my issues are CNS, neuro and muscular. Yeah, my joints suck but they don't cause me a lot of issues right now.
Dawn
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by lou4656: For those who are exercising, or those who would like to add exercise, we have a Walkers/Hikers/Movers thread over in General Support. We are there to encourage and support anyone that wants to add exercise as part of their healing.
Those of us who are part of that group are at various levels of exercise. Some people are struggling to get one foot in front of the other . . . and other people are incorporating exercise into their daily living.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)