This particular thread had 196 posts and just disappeared! Where did it go?
Some of us are following it to get updated information on the subject. Please clarify.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I am wondering, too!! It was a very useful thread!
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
Oh, no!!
I was just looking at it 10 minutes ago and now it has disappeared!!!
This definitely requires some explanation from the moderators. This makes no sense at all. Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
What?
This is not right....tons of people were following this incredibly information rich thread; where is it???
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
I got hungry and ate it.
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
gigi,
thank you for telling everyone that YOU removed this yourself and why.
i was going to look on other pages for it since many people do NOT GO TO PAGES 2 OR 3....
Posted by shazdancer (Member # 1436) on :
I am unsure of what you are saying, Gigi. Are you saying that too many patients were calling the doctors who practice this treatment with questions? Or are you saying that those who doubt the treatment were calling?
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
I was really looking forward to how this was working...... I have been following and very interested. I hope you will at least tell us of your results?
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Thanks GiGi for doing all you can! I'm sorry there are individuals who used your information in such a negative light. I have good news about moving forward with the Maryland group I'm trying to establish, I will contact you directly.
At this point it is perfectly understandable that all information should go through you first. It can be filtered better that way. I will be trying to form a site that will be password protected specific to the group I'm forming and will have restricted membership. I will report status here at lymenet.
As great as lymenet is, it is still open to the public.
I'm wondering how much LNE had to do with it?
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Gigi, I guess in the US, any doctor involved in such a research would be thinking to get loads of money from it. An impossible thing in most parts of Europe.
My homeopath that is a medical doctor, teaching at famous university in Brussels, president of the homeopath society there charges 30-35 curo per hour. He is in the end of his career, gives lectures all over, and is naturally fully booked.
Try to explain that to an American, he won't understand. My homeopath would be seen as a loser (because he's not charging enough for his experience and status).
I've never seen a rich doctor here in Germany or in Belgium. If a medical doctor wants to make money, he has to move out. That's what many do.
Anyway, I'm sorry that you had to pull the thread off. It was great info.
Selma
Posted by aklnwlf (Member # 5960) on :
I was keeping track of this one too. Rats!
Posted by hopingandpraying (Member # 9256) on :
Thank you, Gigi, for updating us. It was a very useful thread.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Don't forlorn toooo much, what was built can be rebuilt. There just has to be rules and membership needs to be filtered. This can only be done if a private site with passwords. I'll start doing the leg work on this. Posted by Greatcod (Member # 7002) on :
Why not just repost the information without the doctor's name and address or phone. Just what he has done, lenght and cost of treatments, how it works, the name of the machine, and if anyone in the US is doing it. That way, the story will be out, but the doctor won't get harassed.
Posted by efsd25 (Member # 2272) on :
GiGi, any way we can get the key links for the Bionic 880? Thanks, Ernie
Posted by efsd25 (Member # 2272) on :
Gigi, I just read your post on why it was removed. I completely understand and agree.
However, that thread has a lot of other information, more than just info on the Bionic 880. This other information is key for us trying to bone up on this wonderful tool you have brought to us.
Is there anyway to post a cleansed thread, for a short period of time, so we can copy off what we need?
I think everyone is very, very thankful for you sharing as much as you have Gigi. You are fantastic!!
Thanks, Ernie
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Some links for Bionic 880 & other info about the process -
"Endogenous opiates generated by biophotones-therapy"
Biological answer to spreading borreliosis and addictions report by Herbert Ziesse in "Die Naturheilkunde" issue 3/2006
�People should be ashamed of themselves, using the wonders of science and technology thoughlessly and without understanding it better than a cow understands the botany of the plants it chews happily`` (Albert Einstein) Of the 3,000 illnesses known today two thirds cannot be treated effectively by medics. The new optical technologies, together with microsystemtechnologies and microbiology open up big potentialities for better prevention, diagnosis and healing. Research, especially the works of the German Physicist Prof. Dr. rer. Nat Fritz Albert Popp, bit also of Dr. rer. Nat. Ulrich Warnke of Saarland University, have shown that DNA is a kind of �electromagnetical antenna``, that receives information to pass it onto our cells. Max Planck was the father of quantum physics, which is the basis of the realisation that light can be conceived as both wave and particle. Coherence is optimal, which means that all photones in space and time are behaving alike, like soldiers marching in a parade. All matter is constructed fom photone/quantum effects - our bodies, too. If the energy-units correspond to visible light, they are called photones, if they do not fall into this narrow spectrum they are called quanta.
Now it gets exiting: We have to look into the field of quantum electrodynamics (QED). QED is the most exact and most successfull scientific theory ever found. Not a single validation experiment failed. Shouldn't this call every medical authority in charge? After all, Feynman, Schwinger and Tomonaga won the nobel prize in 1965.
Light is life Without light life would not be possible, and everybody knows about the positive effect of sunlight for our well-being. But just how important light really is for the human being, we just begin to understand, now that biophysics has proven that light is present in every cell of our body. The itensity of this light diminishes when the cell is damaged. But of you apply light in form of coherent biophotones to the damaged and weakened cells, they are stimulated to regenerate. For absolute penetration depth of close infrared our tests show that with pale skin and low circulation tissue possible power densities will get you measureable photones even below 5 cm of tissue. Measurement of transmission allow to calculate, that a laser light source of 904 nm wave lenght and 10 W/cm� impulse intensity will send 3.4 x 10� photones/cm� to a depth of 4 cm. (Dr. U. Warnke: �The human being and the third power``).
The Bionic 880 uses this healing power of light for biological cell stimulation and for harmonising hormon production (the Bionic-880- therapy was tested with the regulationdiagnotic of Prof. Dr. F. A. Popp)
Endogenous Opiates It is common knowlegde that endogenous opiates (endorphins, enkephalins) generate euphoria. But opiates also increase the efficiency of the immune system and keep us healthy if we are happy. If the opiate level rises, t-lymphocytes multiply faster. Then their attack f.ex. against cancer cells is intensified and the macrophages become more active in fighting intruders and clearing up cell parts. We are interested in how to raise our opiate level and under which circumstances they are too low. They are lowered by coffee, even decaf. Fat digestion diminishes endorphine release due to the release of the colon hormone cholecytokinin. Biophotone therapy can raise the endorphine production quickly (only four or five treatments of 25 minutes each) to a considerable level, and patients report that their level of pain fell faster than ever before. Patients with chronic pain are characterised by a substancially lowered endorphine level in the cerebral liquid. Treating addicts, we will find the same symptom. Cortisol - as well as adrenaline and noadrenaline - has an important role in stressful situations. Shock or stress increases the cortisol production. Stimulation by photone-treatment lowers the cortisol-level. The patients feels a pleasant continuing relaxation. Serotonin is a dopamine class agent. It is a natural amphetamine, which lowers the appetite and therefore is a natural suppressant. The stimulation of serotinin combined with a low-fat diet is a natural way for loosing weight. For support, I prefer to prescribe Elian, Infikausal and L�we Komplex No. 13 (Infirmarius-Rovit).
Erwin Schr�dinger (Nobel prize laureat , physicist):``Our contemporary way of thinking might need a little blood transfusion of eastern ideas.`` After a short instruction, the treatment is easy to delegate. Usually, the photone-emitter - after programming - is applicated to both wrists, both ears and finally to the medulla oblongata at C4/C5 level. Since the amount of photones in a place is an indicator for the probability of hits (similar to a shotgun), the direct effect reaches its limit in deeper regions. But this doesn't rule out that the energy is conducted dissipatively (dynamically) and single states of excitation are distributed throughout the body by way of pumped, that is energetically engrafted moments. Due to this kind of energy-distribution blood- and lymphatic streams are favourite ways. Russian findings suggest that there are also wave guides for the visible spectrum within tissue, which can transport light over astonishing distances. Similar wave guides, only for short distances, were also found in the ear. The universal microtubules are predestinated for wave-guides. Future research has to clearify the matter.
Borreliosis treatment without antibiotics More than 100 patients with borreliosis were treated successfully with the bio-photone-therapy. The treatment profile is described as follows: Bionic 880: Borreliosis-ampuls D5, D6, D8, D10, D12, D15, D30, D60, D100, D200. Settings on the Bionic 880: Power 100%, frequency F3, time: 395 sec. Treatments: Fix the 10 borrelioses-nosodes below the sternum. These 8 points are treated: both inner wrists, both ears, the frontal part of the brain (�3. eye``), 7. chakra/limbic system, thymus, solar plexus. Each point is treated for 395 seconds. Cycle of treatment: twice a week for three weeks, then examination. Is the test result positive, another treatment follows. After that, a month of waiting. A total of 108 patients were treated and put under observation for a year. 90% of the treatments were successful. Reconvalescence of patients who were treated constantly with antibiotics took several weeks longer.
It goes without saying, that all patients underwent cleansings. Albert Einstein:``It is hard to say what is true, but sometimes it is easy to recognize something wrong``
Conclusion At the beginnig of the century of the photone optical technologies spread into nearly all areas of industry and society. This boost of innovation is accelerated by the connection with the life sciences, which have caused a huge wave of technological break-throughs. Photonics and biology - light and life - a combination with bright prospects.
Further readings: Prof. Dr. rer. Nat Fritz A. Popp: Biologie des Lichts. Grundlagen der ultraschwachen Zellstrahlung Dr. rer. nat. Ulrich Warnke: Diesseits und Jenseits der Raum - Zeit - Netze Dr. rer. nat. Ulrich Warnke: Der Mensch und die dritte Kraft
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Sparkle that was absolutely excellent information, it shows exactly how research is closing in on the method of communication from cell to cell. Light as it turns out is how we efficiently use the energy in our bodies. I suspect a healthy body helps protects from all the burdens put on our body from the environment we live in. Marnie has given us a wealth of information on the use of photobiomodulation and detoxification. It finally bridges the gap for why we have chronic symptoms.
You can also see the posibility for getting rid of lyme and company and still have symptoms.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Dr. Bernie Siegel, M.D. wrote some books about the topic of mind/body medicine. The main ingredient of being cured is whether you believe in the therapy. The placebo effect is very powerful.
This is why, sometimes, it doesn't matter what someone uses to get well. The main factor is the belief. This is why I prefer non-invasive treatments.
Some people need to believe in the surgery or intensive drug therapies to make a change to get well.
I'm not against drugs & they can be very useful but sometimes you need to try different modalities to be cured.
---
I really think it's possible to get well using the techniques of Dr. Woitzel with equipment you can purchase here.
Elixa.com sells custom LED panels & other equipment that is similar to the Bionic 880.
You can also purchase the nosodes over the internet for very reasonable prices from Europe. They may even sell them in the US if you search Google.
If you are willing to do the research & experiment on yourself - it doesn't seem that hard to do this technique, yourself, for a reasonable price.
It's nice to consult with a doctor but sometimes it just isn't practical, affordable, or convenient.
GiGi- I respect that you want to do it in the prescribed way... that's great that you have the interest & means to do it.
I have self-treated myself on many occasions with very good results. I feel confident I can handle this on my own for myself.
I wouldn't treat someone else since I'm not a practicioner but I don't mind doing some research & experimenting.
I'm not telling others to do what I do but the info is available. I'm very excited about all of this.
I'm going to go slow & proceed with caution. There is definitely more data available about FIR & healing than using a Rife-type device.
Thanks for the info!
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
It's truly a shame that the original thread was pulled. A simple edit to the original post - plus a similar request towards the end of the thread asking readers NOT to attempt to telephone Dr. W. seeking information - would have sufficed. Most of those truly interested in this protocol are reasonable people and would have understood the problem and honored the request.
Or perhaps a simple statement that the thread would be deleted after 24 hours - then those of us interested could have copied the entire thread or at least selected parts. I'm dismayed that so much information and thoughtful comments have been lost. Most Lymies have time and energy limitations, some much worse than others. The deleted thread contained enough information to get a good start on gathering more information.
In light of the fact that Dr. W's website and phone number were plastered all over another, separate thread makes this action particularly hard to understand.
Fortunately, I had not yet sent out e-mails containing a link to the old thread. I had thought of a few people who might be interested in this, one of which was a practitioner near me and another is a classical homeopath in Germany whose daughter suffered from Lyme. I'm certainly glad that I didn't waste their time linking to a thread that no longer exists.
Sparkle, thanks very much for providing some of the missing links and information. I appreciate that.
Fortunately, you don't have to believe in homeopathy or Hahnemann for it to work. Just ask my dog. Or my cat. Or my ex-boyfriend who initially made a lot of wise cracks about homeopathics. He is now at work, fully functional, while 90% of the people he spent 2 days with last week are sick in bed with vomiting, diarrhea and nasty flu symptoms. He only had to suffer with those symptoms for the few hours it took me to find a remedy for him.
It appears that we have only begun to scratch the surface of understanding medicine that involves energy, frequencies, and light. If there is a failing in the use of these medicines, it is with mankind's lack of understanding, not the power of the medicines themselves. In this regard, the future looks very bright as our knowledge grows - assuming that we are `allowed' to pursue our own individual choices in health care and treatments, of course.
I'm very distressed that customs is holding up your machine, GiGi. If it turns out that you are prohibited from receiving your purchase, then obviously, any discussions about obtaining this machine or using this Lyme protocol should immediately be conducted via `back channels' only, IMHO. I hope the reasons are obvious.
Posted by hopingandpraying (Member # 9256) on :
Truthfinder - I made paper copies of almost all six pages of this thread. If Gigi permits it, then I can somehow "re-post" what I have.
I don't know how to do this on the computer so you'll have to instruct me.
I will delete Dr. W's name,phone number and address from my other topic posted and ask the same of the other posters to do it on theirs.
Just want to help and am saddened this has caused such problems! Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
This country is ridiculous. To hold up an LED device in customs. Gigi, hope you have a good trip and post when you get back.
Posted by Nutmeg (Member # 7250) on :
Did anyone get through enough of the links and info to find the price for the Bionic 880?
Thank you, Nutmeg
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Sometimes homeopathy works for me & sometimes it doesn't. It's the same with Chinese medicine/acupuncture (for me).
I seem to do the best with herbs for some reason.
I think the Bionic 880 is 6,000 euros but it might be dollars. Big difference these days...
----
I was up until 4am trying to figure out the difference between the Bionic 880 & other LED devices.
There are 2 things - number of LEDs at 880nm & the pulsed frequencies.
I don't know how the Bionic 880 has arrived at their pulse rates.
Other companies use the Nogier frequencies - here's a good description of them -
Hope this helps.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Gigi, while waiting for a cure for your hubby, just to let you know my doc uses IV glutathione on his Parkinson's patients. It really helps. His uncle who has Parkinson's has no more tremors or obvious symptoms. I'm not sure all that the glutathione does, I think it protects the neurons from oxidative stress, renders them more sensitive to dopamine, etc. You can do some research but it can preserve his neurons while you're waiting to get rid of the borrelia. Curcumin also is supposedly helpful.
Posted by Nutmeg (Member # 7250) on :
Sparkle, thank you for the cost estimate. I appreciate it.
I hope there is a way the technology can be made available to more people.
Nutmeg
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
GiGi- what do you mean by this?
"I just am afraid of what will follow - "it's a scheme - it doesn't work - I am still hurting ....'' just another one of the expressions Sparkle is using...""
I have NEVER said anything like this...
I have always been open-minded & supportive of your posts.
I'm just looking for ways people who don't have access to large amounts of money to use this technology. I'm trying to make the findings available to others so they can try things for themselves.
I'm not a traditionalist... If these modalities help people there's no reason why people shouldn't start trying things for themselves if they are so inclined.
If these things work, they will work if you implement them by other methods. This isn't brain surgery...
I'm just trying to understand how this stuff works & how to apply it for a less expensive cost.
I can do the research on my own & not post anything else if it offends you. I never blamed you that I didn't get well or that what you are posting is rubbish.
If anything - I'm trying to be supportive.
I just don't thing people should be like sheep & accept everything they are told. I learn by asking questions.
From now I I will discontinue posting my findings... everyone can research it on their own & do what they want.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Sparkle, don't take a post or two personally. Do what is best for you and others.
Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
I only read one or two of the posts in the original thread. This is a topic I know next to nothing about.
Was researching heart palpitations for hubby and ran across a reference to a clinic in Pennsylvania that uses a different photon or L.E.D device with chronic fatigue patients. Includes a very brief description of this type of therapy.
Thanks for the offer, Hoping, but don't worry about it. I had my little 'whine' and perhaps it is best to just let it go. You have enough to think about at the moment.
Sparkle, I hope you understand what GiGi is saying. It's too easy for people to decide that something doesn't work when, in fact, they didn't do the treament properly.
It seems to me that the first order of business is to find out if Dr. W's protocol works for someone here in our country EXACTLY as he uses it. And if so, only then can somebody try to figure out how to make it cheaper without sacrificing efficacy.
So, don't quit thinking and researching! Your ideas may yet come into play. It sounds like you understand this stuff a bit better than most, so there's no harm in looking towards the future. Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Patti -- those links are using laser technology for the infrared. the 880 is using LED technology. LEDs are shown based on Marnie's posts to be more effective in the manner we expect to be used. Laser can create thermal heat that can destroy tissue, LEDs won't. Laser therapy should be done with the aid of a physician, LED technology can be done without a practioner.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
As I promised, here is the gist of my conversation this morning with a patient who was treated by Dr. Woitzel with the Photon Therapy (Bionic 880).
I called our family friend who still lives in my home town in Germany. A retired professional. She lives about half an hour away from Dr. Woitzel.
She started the conversation with exactly these words: ``I am sooooo happy!'' She is symptom-free.
``I was there five times, and with the third time I already noticed that my pains were getting less, and now I go once every four weeks; next week, that is my last time, because he will be testing me if really all borrelia is gone.''
``What impressed me especially is that I received no chemicals of any kind, only the photon therapy. following it got some infusions to help the detoxification to take place.''
I asked her: Did you react strongly to the first treatment?
``No, absolutely not.''
You didn't notice anything?
``Nothing. The first time I thought--- well I was tired - The third time that's when I noticed that I got nauseous in the night and I got diarrhea. But that was one time, and then I knew that my body was pushing all of this out.''
How sick were you? How long did you - did you know that you got bit by a tick?
``Yes, I was bit in June 2006 and got this red circle - then I went to an emergency doctor on the weekend. Then I got antibiotica for 20 days. Then I told my PCP that I had the feeling this is not all okay yet. And he said: there is nothing we can do and just wait it out. I waited, but went then to a naturopath, because I was always tired and felt run-down. He determined that there still was something there. But he said that he was not as experienced in this matter, but that we at least start strengthening my immune system. That is what we did, and then in November 2007 the pain really started to take over in the joints, and always as soon as I was lying down. They got so severe by January this year that I went back to the naturopath telling him I couldn't tolerate it any longer. I didn't want to go to my PCP, because he wouldn't do anything anyway.
Then the naturopath told me he didn't know what to do at this point, but he gave me this address that he found on the internet. He said''you can go there. I do not know the man.'' And then I thought `help, no matter what'. I called there and the practice helper told me ``yes, many come to us who have this. Stop by.''
She said: " All that impressed me, but what impressed me most was that Dr. Woitzel then contacted my naturopath to get some more of my history. He at once asked for the naturopath's name and address and telephoned him. That really impressed me very much, because I had never experienced anything like that.
He told me the last two times when I was there that it looks okay. He tests me everytime. I don't know if I will have to go another time, but I have an appointment.
Further general discussion between her and me:
She also said that Dr Woitzel told her that this disease is increasing horribly, not only by ticks, but also flies and mosquitos. He told her that it is a very dangerous situation.
She said he also told her to be careful. That one is not immune to the next bite. She told me that she another tick got her this year already, no reddening, but that she would tell him when she sees him next week. `` It was a very little one and I noticed it right away. But he told me to be careful.''
I asked her: Did you do anything in the inbetween days? Two days apart and then again? No, nothing was done during those days. ``I was surprised myself that this went so quickly.''
``It takes about an hour for the treatment. That isn't bad at all. They touch the ten different points on the body, 320 seconds, and when that time is up, drink a glass of water. And then to the next point (on the body) ---that's all'' she said.
I told her how happy I was to be able to talk to her and she wished us the same success and that we might get together because my brother still lives in the same town. I told her that I was hopeful that my husband could be helped also.
Then she added: ``I must tell you this: Dr. Woitzel does not give up. I have an acquaintance who had Borrelia, but she has a number of other problems (pain related) and he is treating that particular symptom. He does not give up. My hat is off to him.''
She also said ''we need a lot more doctors like him.''
Amen --- says me.
Hope that gives you an idea of how it works.
[ 05. June 2008, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Thanks for clarifying GiGI... Sometimes when things are written as opposed to spoken in person, there are things that go missing - like intonation, body language, etc.
I understand that some people give a great deal of thought to devise ways to heal others. I appreciate this. It's just that I can't afford to pay anyone right now for services.
So, I have to try this stuff on my own. I'm very good at researching stuff - so, I don't mind. I know it's trial & error but it will be on myself. I'm not going to treat anyone else.
I'm pretty persistent with things & I don't give up easily. I can usually tell if something is working or not. I may not be an expert in ART but I'm very intuitive. It's my own body - so, I think I'll be able to manage.
In any case- the use of LEDs for healing is very well documented. Just using the LEDs in a simple device seems like it will be theraputic for a number of different ailments.
---
What I have researched so far is that the Bionic 880 has custom pulse frequencies along with the basic LEDs.
They are listed on the info. I don't know how they arrived at the pulse rates they use.
There is a French doctor named Dr. Nogier who came up with a series of pulse frequencies that resonate with different systems of the body. These are NOT the ones used by Bionic 880.
The Nogier frequencies are used in other products. Some laser & LEDs have other frequencies. I don't really know how companies come up with these frequencies & how they can determine how effective they are.
The importance of pulse frequencies is that it makes the infrared treatment more effective. Often, these frequencies are controlled by a computer which is built in to "tell" the part of the device with the LEDs the frequency to pulse the lights.
I'm sure many of these LED or laser products are good. It's just that the Bionic 880 was used in the manner with the nosodes to heal Lyme in a particular way.
I'm not sure if the same results can be recreated with other products.
makes custom LED systems. I haven't contacted them but you could probably have them make the same system with the same amount of LEDs & pulse frequencies as the Bionic 880 for alot less money.
The device I'm interested in is called the LightWorks by a company called SOTA -
It's something I can use at home & has some similarities with the Bionic 880. It's only $295 & it would be a good way to become familiar with the technology.
Lasers are good but they are for more professional practicioners. LED instruments may be better because the infrared light is more diffused & better for treating large areas of the body without damaging the body due to overuse.
More later...
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
This is great, Gigi. Thanks for posting the whole story.
So I see the schedule is not something standardized, I mean, the treatment for borrelia lasting 2 weeks every 2 days.
So the treatment can take a bit longer, but with larger intervals in between. That would be great for me as dr. W. is about 2.5 hours from home. I can just drive.
I guess dr. W. does then energetic tests then and determines what to do for each person? So the interval in between treatments would be also determined like that?
I think will try going DIRECTLY to the man then. I couldn't still contact the doctor in Berlin. I just left my phone number in his practice, but he didn't call back.
The only problem is that we get constantly bitten here. Ticks don't have borrelia anymore (because of the borrelia preventive treatment we do), but they can have MANY other nasty things inside.
Horse flies, fleas, bees, waspes, small red spiders, even ants, we get bitten by all these insects quite often too.
Please share your story when you come back. I'm sure we're all not rid of borrelia, they're still hiding, but some people live well like you do. But I wonder what from these borrelia potencies test in people like you (in remission).
And for me, now borrelia is getting into hiding places, I'm symptomless again, andro is not testing anymore since yesterday, I'm back to preventive protocol, so fast, like all the other short borrelia relapses I had before.
Borrelia slides don't test either. I still herx a bit after the combo astragalus - stephania - cats claw, but it has nothing to do like last week. I wonder for what potencies I will test for the Bionic. My story is very similar to the lady you talked to, just that I got infected a year before her.
My daughter had also lyme in the past, just accute phase (for 5 months). I also wonder if these borrelia nosodes higher potencies would test too!!
Hey Dr. W., here we are! I'm calling the man! Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Sparkle your point is very understandable, maybe the best way to look at is, just another tool in the shed. What I mean is why not buy an LED that is close with low expectations until you can get treated with real thing, if you need to. Put time on your side and more things are possible. I've had the same question from another person who can't afford 10k but can afford 350. If you do this, just keep the expectation low, like you are just trying to manage the inflamation from the disease, not expecting remission.
I don't see any reason to lower expectations... (I'm not saying this in a nasty way... ;-)
I think we can do it! It's not brain surgery...
You put the nosodes on your sternum & shine the light on various points on the body for 395 seconds.
It's not that complicated. I found websites in Europe that sell the nosodes - they are inexpensive.
I don't even know if the Bionic 880 will be allowed into the country judging from GiGi's experience.
---
Re: DPL� (Deep Penetrating Light) Therapy System
It looks good but I don't know if it has any pulse frequencies. I think the frequencies make the IR more effective.
I have to look into it more throughly later...
The SOTA LightWorks has the Nogier frequencies.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Pulsed LEDs -
Pulsing these LEDs at different frequencies can increase the effectiveness of the LED treatments.
Dr. Paul Nogier, the father of ear acupuncture, discovered that each tissue type in the body resonates at different frequencies depending on the embryologic origin of tissue.
Someone would lie down on his or her back and he would check their radial artery pulse. Using a frequency generator, he dialed in different frequencies and aimed them at different parts of the body and also on different acupuncture points.
If the frequencies were beneficial, the peak wave amplitude of the pulse would shift in a certain direction.
If the frequencies were not beneficial, the shift would be in the opposite direction. He found that tissue derived from ectodermal tissues had a positive response to 292 Hz.
Tissue derived from endodermal tissues responded best to 584 Hz and tissue derived from mesodermal tissues responded best to 1168 Hz.
These frequencies are all harmonics of each other and happen to be harmonics of the D note.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
cyc./sec. (cycles per second) is the same as Hertz (Hz)
----- -----
Nogier frequencies -
In McGee's book, he discusses a hand-held light therapy device that consisted of light emitting diodes (LEDs) pulsed at Nogier's frequencies. According to Dr. McGee, such a device appears to have far stronger healing effects than non-pulsed lasers set on low power outputs or non-pulsed LEDs regardless of their wavelengths (color).1.
1. (Frequency F, 73 Hz) For use when cellular activity is hypoactive, such as chronic recurring problems, nonunion fractures and chronic splints and for stimulation of osteoid. It is also helpful in activating humoral and endocrine functions. Field work has shown setting 1 helpful in stimulating (tonifying) acupuncture and trigger points and increasing circulation in areas being treated, such as wounds when past the acute stage.
2. (Frequency G, 147 Hz) For areas of yellow scar tissue that are generally formed internally on tendons, ligaments and sub-acute (lingering but not chronic) conditions. Field use has shown setting 2 to be helpful in reducing inflammation associated with injuries and infections. This is often called the universal frequency because most problems involve inflammation.
3. (Frequency A, 294 Hz.) For tissue of ectodermal origin, such as body openings, skin and nerve. Field applications include wounds, eye injuries and after surgery. Setting 3 tends to tone tissue while minimizing the chance of hemorrhaging fresh wounds or recent surgical sites. It is also good for the treatment of acupuncture and trigger points, corneal ulcers and ulcerated mucous membranes. This is called the universal frequency in acupuncture.
4. (Frequency B, 587 Hz.) This frequency appears to be most effective for neuropathy, but also for circulatory and lymphatic stimulation and treatment of tissue of endodermal origin, such as GI tract, liver and pancreas. In field applications, setting 4 has been used in conjunction with 5 and 2 for tendon, ligament, joint and other injuries where reaching secondary levels of tissue is needed.
5. (Frequency C, 1174 Hz.) For tissue of mesodermal origin, such as bone, joints, ligament, viscera and tendon. Field experience has shown setting 5 to be especially good for tendon and ligament injuries when used with 4 and 2. It also helps in relaxing large muscle groups.
6. (Frequency D, 2349 Hz.) For chronic conditions not responsive to setting 3 or 5. Field experience shows setting 6 to be a good supplement to 3 when healing processes appear to reach a plateau.
7. (Frequency E, 4698 Hz.) For pain control, primarily when C nerve fibers are transmitting to dorsal root ganglia and when involvement of neurotransmitters is of physiological importance. Field experience shows 7 to help suppress pain and to sedate acupuncture and trigger points and aid in diminishing excess calcification associated with chips, spurs and arthritic conditions.
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I don't know how the company that makes Bionic 880 came up with the frequency rate that they did...
Other companies use the Nogier frequencies since they have been studied to be effective.
It would be interesting if someone called them & asked them this.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Sparkle, I took no offense! And you know why I posted it the way I did. Some people may bet the ranch on something untried and get too disappointed and never try again.
One thing I thought we could try. Is take the specification to a vendor who has a machine that is close and have them tweak it to the specifications.
What do you think, worth a try?
If its worth a try Sparkle, you've spent so much time investigating the technology, I suspect your the expert. Do you have time to make a few calls?
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Really good point GiGi, I suspect 30 years of researching what works or doesn't isn't going to be done by guessing. It seems some are determined to try, the closer to the specification the closer to the bionic 880. If the specifications are close and still doesn't help, well we've learned something.
For myself, I would perfer to have the one being used by those who have had certain success. Personally I don't like to guess. And I certainly can't replace all the research these great scientists have employed. None of us can.
Posted by psano2 (Member # 11711) on :
Regarding pulsing LEDs, (understand that I know nothing and am just researching online) I found this website run by an electrical engineer, and he doesn't think that pulsing really makes much difference. I know that some of you wouldn't agree w/this, so I'd like to hear how you view what he has to say.
I like the idea of finding a device close to the Bionic 880 and tweaking it.
I've ordered the DPL and am going to try it out. I can get my money back if I'm not satisfied.
Patti
Posted by efsd25 (Member # 2272) on :
Just a heads-up, I spoke with Ron at Lumen Photo-Therapy. They make 2 light units, a smaller one for about 850.00(90 LED's) and another one for about 1500.00(264 LED's). The unit used different frequencies than the Bionic 880. However, I spoke with the owner and he said I might be able to special order a unit with frequencies the same as the Bionic 880. I have sent the owner the frequencies, and he will be sending me a quote.
Obviously, it might be a way to save some serious money. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Ernie
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
psano2 - the articles you posted doesn't take into account the research of Dr. Nogier regarding pulsed frequencies (see what I posted prior).
They discovered that if they used a pulsed laser light, the tissue healed rapidly.
On the other hand, if they gave a continuous beam, it sedated the cell and killed the pain.
When a single frequency pulsed light hit the cell, it actually stimulated the cell to start producing more protein than it normally does, and as a result, the cell would heal.
Even when they took the light away, the cell continued its healing.
The continuous beam had a reverse effect. It actually caused the cell membrane to relax; it killed pain, reduced inflammation and made muscle tissue relax.
----
It seems that different wavelengths & pulsed vs. non-pulsed are all significant in regards to healing.
I'm sure with more study, this will be narrowed down into various combinations for treating various ailments.
----
All of this is good but I'd like to start using infrared as part of my treatment sooner rather than later. I don't think it's necessary to wait until someone can get a Bionic 880.
Even if someone does get this device - I still have to find a way to commute where this device may be. By the time this happens, gasoline may be $10 a gallon.
There are other good products on the market that I can afford & use at home...
There are alot of benefits of using infrared therapy other than the specific method of Dr. Woitzel to cure Lyme.
I totally respect this doctor's discovery & research but it may take a while before anyone can implement this in the US.
After 10+ years of being ill - I'm just not that patient...
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
efsd - re: The powerful Lumen 90� is made of flexible neoprene and may be easily applied anywhere on the body. It measures 4" X 8" and features 40 visible and 50 infrared LEDs, allowing our most concentrated treatment option yet! $849
Compare this with the LightWorks by SOTA... They are very similar but the LightWorks is $295.... It is programed with the Nogier frequencies.
-----
The LightWorks is designed to generate an intense LED Light output using Constant-Current.
The Hand Paddle has high intensity LEDs on both sides.
One side has 60 x Red LEDs at a wavelength of 660nm.
The other side of the Hand Paddle has 55 x high intensity Near-Infrared (NIR) LEDs at a wavelength of 880nm.
There are also 5 x Red LEDs at 660nm wavelength on the NIR side of the paddle to indicate the NIR LEDs are working as NIR light is invisible to the human eye.
There are 8 different selectable Modes (A through G and Constant).
The LightWorks unit will output a steady (non-pulsed) beam of LED light when in Constant Mode.
Additionally, the LightWorks unit can pulse the LEDs at specific healing frequencies (Modes A through G).
-----
I don't sell any of these products nor am I affiliated with any company. I have done research for a profession & I like to find the best product for the money.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
And there's more...
Kendric C. Smith at the Department of Radiation Oncology, Stanford University School of Medicine, concludes in an important article entitled The Photobiological Effect of Low Level Laser Radiation Therapy (Laser Therapy, Vol. 3, No. 1, Jan - Mar 1991) that
"1) Lasers are just convenient machines that produce radiation.
2) It is the radiation that produces the photobiological and/or photophysical effects and therapeutic gains, not the machines.
3) Radiation must be absorbed to produce a chemical or physical change, which results in a biological response.
"The equation between the machine and the biological response is a common error often made by those who wish to promote the commercial interests of low-energy laser technology.
Light radiation must be absorbed to produce a biological response.
All biological systems have a unique absorption spectrum which determines what wavelengths of radiation will be absorbed to produce a given therapeutic effect.
The visible red and infrared portions of the spectrum have been shown to have highly absorbent and unique therapeutic effects in living tissues.
The following are definitions of commonly used terms used in connection with the use of therapeutic light devices:
1) Visible Light: light that is within the visible spectrum, 400nm(violet) to 700nm(red)
2) Infrared Light: light in the invisible spectrum below red, from 700nm to 2,000nm
3) Frequency: number of cycles per second measured in Hertz
4) Coherency: wavelengths of light traveling in phase with one another
5) Monochromaticity: light that is of one color, or one wavelength
6) Collimation: light focused in a beam, maintaining a constant diameter regardless of its distance from the object or surface at which it is directed
7) Nanometer (nm): a unit of measure of wavelength of light (one billionth of a meter)
8) Nanosecond: one billionth of a second
9) Joule (J): unit used to measure the energy delivered
10) Watts (w) and milliwatts (mw, 1/ 1000th of a watt): units used to measure the power capability
11) Peak power output: the maximum output of power, measured in milliwatts and watts
12) Average power: amount of power actually delivered in a given period of time
13) Duty cycle: the amount of time the light is actually on during a given period of time
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Ernie, thanks for doing that--and please let us know if he thinks he can make it. In fact maybe Gigi will help us there when she gets her machine. Maybe he can take a look at hers at some point to figure out how to engineer one here. Maybe we can have someone start making it here so we don't have to worry about this high price and the customs/FDA issues.
Sparkle & Others, I have a chee energy device. It uses pulsed frequencies. It was around $350 and I remember wondering why it was so expensive when its such a small handheld with just about 8 LED's (blue, white, red and infrared). Let me tell you it is fantastic, and strong. I don't even use it that much because when I tried holding it on certain acupuncture meridian points or on points where I know I have lyme (such as a point on my upper spine) sequestered, I had a very strong reaction, and I realized I didn't know what I was doing, so maybe I shouldn't mess around. I really love the device though and I can tell you the pulsing Nogier frequencies are very important and I've had other LED's with many more lights that are not nearly as strong.
OTOH, that does not mean it does what the Bionic 880 does.
ALso I remember talking to Soto and they said they were going to try to make a device with the Nogier frequencies so I guess they have. I don't know how it compares to chee energy.
My sense of bionic 880 is that the device itself may not be as significant as the overall program with the nosodes and the practitioner. I think you are activating the body in some way that I don't understand, that homeopathy alone apparently doesn't do as fast.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
We have to be careful not over simplify the LED technology. There are possibly millions of spectral frequencies. If we try something with a currently availble commercial product like the bionic 880 or a manufactured one to spec. It still may not be quite the same. When you use the super diodes now made to create the LED dispersion of light. It is the light that has the healing qualities. We just need to understand what works best as best we can. We may still want the bionic 880 when it becomes available and we know more.
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
GiGi, so there is still a chance that you will receive the Bionic 880? It's important to find out if the thing can be legally imported or not. And under what circumstances.
Did anyone notice if there is any kind of patent on the machine, or if a patent has been applied for? We certainly don't want to step on any toes in that department.
I have a preliminary theory about why this machine + nosodes works. Historically, nosodes made from diseased organisms or tissues will not cure a patient - treatment with nosodes usually has to be preceded or followed with another homeopathic remedy(ies).
I believe that this is because the `disease' of the person is a combination of both the organism that causes disease AND the `terrain' - the inherent or acquired characteristics - of the individual person. As discussed on this board many times, the infectious bug is only part of the equation. The terrain is everything.
So, the infrared/biophoton energy must alter the actual terrain of the person so that the homeopathic nosode frequencies can act on the body without the customary limitations. And from what I've read that GiGi posted about the Bionic 880 and heavy metals, etc., this is what seems to be happening. And if so, this is truly amazing. The implications here are a bit staggering.
And I still think that treatment using the actual Bionic 880 + nosodes could be affordable if `patient groups' bought their own machines. The additional costs of paying a `practitioner' to do ART testing - and any cleanses or other therapies - shouldn't be terribly expensive. I think that if a person could get away with putting Lyme in remission for $1,000 or less, that is a BARGAIN.
I challenge anyone to add up what they've spent for treatment already, despite good insurance coverage for some.
I' been mulling over the financial aspects of patient groups owning their own machines, and how that could work long term as more people wanted treatment, etc. I'll pass my thoughts on to Bob once I have a firm idea of how it could work.
I think.... just maybe.... WE CAN DO THIS! But we have to verify that the protocol works first. And that the machine can be imported here legally, without hassles from the FDA.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Excellent points Truthfinder. We are so built in this country for an individual to see a healthcare provider. A group means we can negotiate better deals. In my investigation the health care practioners I've talked with are excited about this group project. They've never seen anything quite like it. So I think there are advantages to doing things in a group. Plus the benefit of everyone working together for the whole group's health. It's been quite an experience. I don't want to supply to many details here.
I really haven't communicated to much with my group yet. I have to do some of that today. And I've been too busy to research putting a site together. Again I'll be doing that today.
Also Sparkle and anyone interested it might be good idea to specifically look at diode technology. See the link below:
It's disappointing about the FDA issue. However, I still believe we are making progress. We just need to take our time and do it right.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Yes - I realize that the Bionic 880 is a LED device. I posted the info about the Low Level Laser for everyone's information.
It's nice to see everyone coming to the table with bits of information to share.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
I think my point is not all diodes used in the devices being sold are the same. If we want to provide specifications to a manufacturer, the most important ingredient is the diodes used. There are super LED called sleds and regular LEDs.
There aren't too many diode manufacturers, so finding out what diode or specifying what diode to use may be the road to take.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Truthfinder, that is a very interesting perspective.
Gigi, thanks for keeping us posted. When you said your device was in Ohio I wasn't sure if that was where it was held up by customs, or if you had gotten it partway through customs.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
I think you will get your device. I was thinking about the fact that if a doctor orders a European approved drug for a patient (such as lipostabil) because he/she regards it as necessary for treatment, it can be imported. So, why not an LED machine like Bionic 880? Maybe a doctor will have to write an Rx?
Posted by aliyalex (Member # 6976) on :
GiGi, I probably don't have to ask this, but will you find out more about the 2000 lyme patients who were treated and recovered? EG. symptom presentation, progression of illness, mobility issues, etc.
Greatly appreciate the info. I am off to Seattle tomorrow. Aliyah
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
If it's being held up by the FDA, it's probably not an "approved" medical device.
They may let people use it for personal use but I don't think a doctor could offer it to patients. I may be wrong but I think these things have to be approved by the FDA.
If a doctor uses these types of things for their patients they may get in trouble & lose their license if they are not approved.
I don't know what the case is for people with Natropathic Doctor licenses or massage therapists, acupuncturists, doctors of homeopathy, etc. LLLT is being used to help people quit smoking & some places use lasers for pain management.
I guess that's why alot of places that sell this equipment are associated with using this equipment on animals, veterinarians, etc.
Seems like it may be a long winding road for this type of therapy here. I've been looking for comments on other message boards about anyone using LEDs or LLLT for illnesses & found very little.
Maybe it's all just very new... If anyone can find anything - please post a link. There are some studies about using light but I was interested in what people's experiences were.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
TRACY/ truthfinder, just one more info.
According to dr. K., homeopathics on 'stronger' potencies (less than D12, if my memory is good) are absorbed much better by the body THROUGH green laser than with ingestion.
He said this was clear through his experience.
I've been trying to 'take' other things like herbs and essential oils though the laser, instead of ingesting, but I found out it's not as effective. I asked my naturopath, she said, it's not the same, but for homeopathics, it works.
Lower dilutions of homeopathics are necessary in his opinion, so that the substance don't get destroyed (because of EMFs from the laser).
In his way of seeing things, homeopathics work in the 'light' field of each person (both ingested AND with the laser), as they act in the 'energy' field. I mean, that's the way I understood when he explained. It's not something published, these were only his words in the conference.
Each cell emits biophotons, and the collection of all biophotons around the body is each person's 'light field'. This light field has to be coherent, and then a person is healthy. The lifhg field is the thing that controls cell activity and body function, according to his hypothesis. It's not the brain.
So if homeopathics act there in this light field it will act better if delivered by light. At least, that's how I came to 'understand' the functioning of homeopathics.
So again, coming back to my herbs and light, well herbs and essential oils are to act in the physical body, killing, modulating, cleaning in physical ways. But not in the higher bodies.
So when herbs get delivered by light (thorugh the laser), these stuff don't work as well as when delivered by the 'level' they belong, which is physical body = ingestion (or infusion, or rubbing on skin).
This is just my way of trying to grasp these treatments modalities, of course.
So there seems to be a very good marriage between homeopathics and light treatments in general (not only laser or infrared). Because they're all working in the same 'level'!
So I guess here again, even though not all potencies used by dr. Woitzel are lower potencies (I guess dr. Woitzel shall keep changing nosodes frequently, or by patient, so that they don't get too annoyed by flashing light), that's one way things seem to work, through light.
All these light treatments are only possible if one thinks that all these hypothesis are good:
- that our cells emit light and that this light is used to trasmit bio-messages;
- that our bodies/ cells understand 'exterior' light information, so that it interacts with it;
- that it is possible to transmit very coded information (through homeopathy and light frequencies, and types of waves of light) to our biological light field.
I'm just trying to make some sense of it all.... Selma
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
So if homeopathics work stimulated by light to influence the light field a change occurs. The light field has been given a message and the light field responds and a physical reaction happens in the body.
In the case of nosodes, energetic testing, and the 880; it works similarly. The light field is given a message via the nosode and the biophotons are delivered and in essence patching holes in the light field. With the light field patched the cells themselves can exert a physical reaction.
I'm guessing the light field is constructed of all cells in the body. Like each cell is a flashlight. Lyme, mercury, and pathogens work to dim the light from cells. Fritz Popp must have been able to see this diminished light in the body with diagnostic equipment. It would be great if there were a device to look at the body this way.
Posted by aliyalex (Member # 6976) on :
Wow GiGi that is even better than I hoped. Maybe I need to renew my passport. I will talk to Dr K about this technology tomorrow.
Today I fly a commuter and other flight by myself with wheelchair to Seattle for the first time in 16 months of flying there with husband. He has decided this is too much for him.
It is amazing what we will do to get well. Thanks to all those who get well or are well, yet continue to assist and support others who are struggling and moving toward healing. Last time in Seattle, Dr K's associate said we are the canaries in the cave and we go there to get well and we increase our vibration and the people who accompany us do as well.
Wish my husband was listening. Have a great trip for you and your husband. And thank you and him for continually blazing the trail. Aliyah
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
This was on a website for someone who developed a technique for allergies. I don't know if the technique is any good but this info may be useful to understand the way light works in the body...
It turns out that living cells emit small bursts of light. Fritz Albert Popp, a Nobel Prize winner in physics determined that cell not only radiate light they absorb light as well. A healthy cell stores light for a longer period that an unhealthy cell can. A healthy cell radiates coherent light while a diseased cell radiates chaotic light.
Popp coined the phrase biophotons which has spawned an incredibly large industry. A goggle search of biophotonics produces over 400,000 hits. Biophotons travel at the speed of light forming the electromagnetic frequency patterns found in every living organism.
The Russians were able to modulate laser light, which is distinct due to its coherence and add semantics (meaning) to the carrier wave. In this way they actually reprogrammed DNA in living organisms using the correct resonant frequencies.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
**** An explanation of meridians and some scietific explanation of them. This is probably why Dr. W. is using them to deliver the biophotons
Bio-electromagnetic theories
Science has long been aware of an electrical phenomenon called the "Current of Injury".
This happens when tissue in the body undergoes trauma or microscopic damage to an area of skin. When skin cells are pierced, as with an acupuncture needle, they start leaking electrically charged ions into the surrounding areas of tissue. A weak electrical battery-like charge is created. This electric current is called the current of injury, which is know to stimulate a healing response from the nearby cells. This does not explain how stimulating acupoints with low level, non-invasive lasers could achieve the same therapeutic effects. (12)
The electrical conductivity of acupoints has been known for several decades thanks to the work of Nakatani in the 1950s and by Dr. Robert Becker in the 1970s. Becker's work on the Large Intestine and the Pericardium meridians found that the points along these channels showed significantly more electrical conductivity than areas of skin with non-acupoints.
In 1986 German scientist Fritz-Albert Popp and Chinese biologist, Chang-Lin Zhang developed a model they called the "Standing Wave Superposition Hypothesis". This research attempts to accommodate the holographic nature of acupuncture such as the homunculus or miniature representation of the whole body represented in the ears and the feet. The theory also strives to explain the anomalous skin resistance properties of acupuncture points as well as the apparent interconnectivity between them. (13)
In the Zhang-Popp model, it is shown that the body is composed of sodium, potassium and other electrically charged inorganic ions such as proteins and DNA which when accelerated will emit EM radiation in accordance with conventional physical theory.
With these many types of charges oscillating in the body, an interference pattern is produced formed by the various waves of various wavelengths.
The highest combination of wave amplitudes forms the acupuncture points and meridians by means of constructive interference. At these points the skin is at the highest in electrical conductivity. This conductivity depends on the internal electrical field, which is determined by the interference pattern from the superposition of the numerous waves. (14) Hence, the standing wave pattern of a sick person would have a varied pattern from that of a healthier person. The treatment of acupuncture with needles in the acupoints would cause a disturbance in the standard wave pattern caused by new boundaries formed by the needle. The needle activates the current of injury response resulting in a change in the EM field, producing changes in the biological response, which may promote healing. It is this theory, which implicates the EM fields of the entire body.
****** the link from where the above narrative came from
I've been reading along ... but it's still unclear .... if one of us were to go to Germany and not buy the machine, is two weeks how long we would need to stay?
Or would we need to stay for the 8 weeks we discussed before?
Posted by psano2 (Member # 11711) on :
Wow, that's a great story, Gigi, although I've been on long term antibiotics, so I'd have to stay, who knows how much, longer.
How much is airfare to Germany? Posted by hopingandpraying (Member # 9256) on :
Six - when I called for an appointment and told the receptionist my son has been taking abx for two years, she said to come for three weeks. If you have been on abx for a long time, the treatment takes longer.
I don't know if she completely understood, as her English is limited. I just "winged it" with English and the four years of German I studied in high school many years ago!
Ask for a "Termin" (=appointment) when you call - per Gigi's instructions.
Don't know if Dr. W is fluent in English even though he does know the language. Not important - we are going forward with this (our appointment is July 10th)!!
Psano - check Cheapoair.com for low airfares as I've checked others and this seems to have the best prices so far. I found one for $888 round trip, non-stop, on a major US carrier.
I'm still waiting to hear from our friend who works for the airlines (he may be laid off!). Travel dates in the Summer are usually blacked out for the season if one is flying standby, so tickets would probably not be available anyway!
I am now looking for a place for us to stay. I'm checking into the vacation apartments Gigi suggested. It's a work in progress, that's for sure!
[ 11. June 2008, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: hopingandpraying ]
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
I am in the UK and am thinking of coming over to Germany to be treated, and would like to know if there is another woman in her own who would like to share an apartment in Berlin where I have contacts. The rents are very cheap. I saw that there was a few practitioners on a list but I don't remember where i saw th list. Do you have a link GiGi?
If there is a woman in the UK I would consider buying a car and driving over instead of flying.
I know Berlin and can speak some German and have a number of contacts who would be able to help us.
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
hopingandpraying - Wow, if 3 weeks is all it takes for someone who's been on 2yrs of antibiotics like me, I'm there. I'm so discouraged right now because I'm relapsing, again.
I was thinking it would be more like 3 months based on one of Gigi's post about the woman who stayed at the place she's planning to stay.
Thanks for the tip about cheapairlines. Haven't been to that site before. That seems like a pretty good fare that you got.
Patti
Patti
Posted by hopingandpraying (Member # 9256) on :
Psano2 - the airfare I quoted was from Chicago's O'Hare airport. Since you are in California, I think it would be more. Check the website and see.
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
Many thanks for the list GiGi.
I would come to the Black Forrest but it is just so easy to get around in Berlin. I hope Dr Heinrich is good. I have sent a message to a friend in Berlin to ask if he knows of an apartment or a room and i will go asap
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I would like to send some information about this treatment to my doctor. Is there any kind of package I can send him about this?
My doctor is Italian but I don't know if he can read German. I think it would be good if we can have practicioners here who can offer this - even if it takes some time.
I have also found some "non-traditional" doctors & natropaths who may be interested in this to help people in the area here. Lyme is very bad in NJ. Many whole families are being effected.
Not many are interested in alternative therapies but I think when they realize how hard it is to get well, they may begin to search for alternatives.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
GiGi curious about this statement
quote: As long as you test positive with energetic testing, which is a prerequisite and needs to be correctly done, treatment will continue monthly until you clear them.
In what situation wouldn't you test positive? Besides being healthy or just not having lyme.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Thanks GiGI! I know you are busy. If you have time to do this it would be great.
I sent my doctor information but it would be good to ask him about it again after he gets some more specific data.
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
You might pick up some information/advice from here
Thank you so very much for your extensive posts about this.
I look forward to reading more and am thrilled that I may have some reason to hope for a chance at life after decades of - well, you know.
I hope that you and your husband have easy travel and enjoy most aspects of your journey very much.
Take care,
Tricia
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[ 10. June 2008, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
I hope all goes well for you GiGi. You've given soooo much of yourself in this thread. It is inspiring how you deftly handle everyones questions and concerns. Like Tricia, I have renewed hope.
I also hope your husband and all others going to Germany every success in your treatments. Posted by SunRa (Member # 3559) on :
I want to give some info to my dr tomorrow morning but don't have the capacity to read or research much right now...if anyone has some good info already put together, or anything saved from the original thread, could you please PM me? I'd be very very grateful
and many thanks to you GiGi for sharing all this. I sent you an email. hope to talk more soon. have a great trip!
Posted by SunRa (Member # 3559) on :
went back through this thread and found the basic links..thanks sparkle! I can at least print this out for now and give my dr the biophoton.de site
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Are we saying that this is a CURE for lyme disease? I thought there was NO cure??
Being someone who is very ill and reading all of this, one tends to get their hopes up. I am willing to do anything to get my life back.
If Doctors knew about this, why wouldnt they want to use it to cure their patients??
I wish I had the money and health to travel and get this done...oh well Posted by Cass A (Member # 11134) on :
Dear GiGi,
This is SOOOOO exciting!!
My only question now is what about the co-infections?? Are they handled at the same time, or does something else need to be done?
Love,
Cass A
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Shandy there is a group in massachusetts starting to form. The idea of the groups is to bring the machines here and to make it affordable by sharing the cost. Search for 880 you'll find the group's post.
The concept is to self treat. We don't necessarily need a doctor or health care prationer to use the 880. We need lab work and an energetic tester. I found an energetic tester willing to do my entire group for free if one gets formed. When the time is right, I would ask them how best to handle the lab work. I know they have connections to reduce the price.
While GiGi is away it is important that one group gets formed so we know we can at least have some solidarity. If a group isn't formed we will never know if we could find remission in this way.
The information to have success will be better known when those that go to Germany can share their experiences while we form these groups.
Right now, many people are hanging on the fence waiting. That will not get it done.
I have everything for a group but participants. The same can be said of Massachusetts. I have a couple of practioners in Maryland who are interested in helping that can do the energetic testing. Several great Ideas from GiGi, Sparkle, and Marnie as to the method of treatment 880 or close facsimile.
I would like to purchase the 880 if we can. But if we can't we can purchase the closest device that meets the specification. If a group forms quick enough I would suggest that. I had the sense the 880 wouldn't be approved from 4 months to a year. The company assured me they are in the process of doing the FDA paperwork. I have another question to the same company to find out why the 880 versus other machines we see on the internet.
I've also been working to create a private forum specifically for the 880 groups.
We should be careful when we use the word "cure", the FDA prevents supplement companies to use this word. It is best to use remission when ever we talk to what we hope to accomplish
Posted by psano2 (Member # 11711) on :
Bob, if you were in California, I'd join your group!
I haven't seen anyone mentioning forming a group in California yet. Anyone out there interested besides me?
Patti
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
I guess sometimes you have no choice but to sit it out on the sidelines when you have no money...and you are so sick that some days just lifting your head off the pillow is a miracle.
looks like this girl will have to wait..... Sometimes, I have no toilet paper... thats my reality.
GiGi I wish you luck in Germany, I hope this is your answer! I wish everyone the best on this journey.... all we want is wellness, I know thats all I want for me and my family..... just looks like I will have no choice but to go the abx route.
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
I've just received an e-mail from a friend who has recently gone to live in Berlin and is staying with his daughter, and he is very keen to help and even says that he would move out so i could stay with his daughter while I get treatment and she can help me with her car. Also she lives south of the city where the traffic is not bad. I have posted a letter to Dr Heinrich to ask about energy testing and how much his sessions are. So things are moving Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Mati, that's wonderful news.
-----------------------
I wonder:
In addition to the various tick-borne infections, would this also consider some of the other chronic stealth infections that are added to the mix for some - such as Chlamydia Pneumonia (Cpn), HHV-6, etc. . . Coxackie (sp?) virus . . . mycoplasma . . .
I tried to read over all the posts but did not find mention of these, although I've not been able to go to all the links yet.
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Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
I know Shandy, there are those without means and have to sit on the side-lines. And I'm really sorry you're in that situation. I'm hoping those with means once treated work with those who don't have means to somehow work with them as well. In time I hope we all get treated.
GiGi, thanks for nosode response, I guess I just needed to be sure.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Shandy, you have a very good LLMD who is also well versed in alternatives and rebuilding health. I am fully functional again (on meds). You will feel better.
I'm looking more for this machine to keep me in remission once I get there. Maybe that's not the right reason, but I don't want to go through this again. If this works for others here, then I'll be more motivated to get off the meds and give it a real chance ... but my main concern is to be sure my children don't go through what I'm going through.
If I didn't feel so good (95% well), then I'd be more likely to quit meds immediately!
If I get one, you can come here and use it. We even have toilet paper, but it's a really crowded house. Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
SIx, that was funny!!! ... I hope it's Scott 1000 sheets!!!!
Maybe once I am feeling much better like you, that would be something to keep me in remission...and thank you for the offer...much appreciated!! Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
I can swing the airfare and probably a room but incase I missed the post, does anyone know how much Dr. Woitzer charges for say, 5 sessions? This would be good to know.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Shandy - I know the feeling... It's sort of like a snake biting it's tail. Too ill to work, no money to get well.
It's been tough all around for me. This is why I'm trying to devise a way to use this knowledge & do it on a less expensive scale.
Medicine is a science & an art. If it's science that proves that nosodes & light can work together to create healing - then, the outcomes can be reproduced.
I'm not sure how precise all the elements have to be to get a good result. I'm still researching it & I'm willing to experiment on myself. I need alittle more time to gather all the info.
Any findings people have would be useful to gather together... whether it's from going to see Dr. W or from other aspects of the treatment (homeopathic nosodes, LEDs, biophotonics, equipment).
I'm not sure taking abx are the answer. It seems that the way of abx are to push the infection deeper into the system &/or change the structure of the pathogens.
I can't afford abx but even if I could, I don't think i would use them. They didn't help me in the 8 months I took them & I think they seemed to make things worse.
If you can't afford to go to Germany, I don't know if taking abx will ultimately help. I'm not against drugs & people using them. For me, I just have a feeling that the infection is being pushed deeper into my system.
Plus, your body has to deal with fungal issues which deplete the immune system. It just makes it harder to fight everything else off. If anything, try some herbal protocols.
I'm not a doctor but this is just my decisions based on my experience.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I just spoke with the owner at Elixa. He's not an MD but he's been selling electro-medical equipment for over 20 years.
He said that there are no double blind studies that indicate that pulsed light is any better than just using constant light. Many of these instruments say they have frequencies in the XXX Hz range but it's not really possible to cycle the LEDs at these rates.
Hz means "cycles per SECOND". You just can't get any effect by doing this since it takes time to turn the light on & off. If it says 80 Hz that means the light goes on & off 80 times in a second. I just don't see how that's possible to switch it on & off that fast.
The other issue is that it doesn't seem to have any better effect in healing. None of the "scientific" studies done have used pulsed light. The NASA study, etc. were all done with constant light.
So, whether the frequency of pulsed light actually does anything is really open to speculation. He said what matters is the light nanometer measurement (ie: 880nm, 660nm, etc.).
There are studies that validate that different lengths of light will effect different things based on the length.
Elixa sells a NIR array with 96 LEDs at 880 nm for $124 (The Bionic 880 has 84).
I'm not sure how this will work with the nosodes but I think it's worth a try.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Unless Dr. Woitzel has a stake, personal or financial in Bionic 880, I'd suggest the best way to find out (if he's open to it) if other devices are similarly helpful, is to buy them and send them to him to try.
Posted by psano2 (Member # 11711) on :
What is a nosode and how is it used? Where do you get them?
Take care in using these. They are mainly used by experienced practicioners. I think you can just use them in the vials in conjunction with the LED treatment.
You place them on your body (the sternum, I think) & shine the LED on various points of your body. I posted the info prior. I'm not sure of the specifics of the potency, though.
You have to do some research.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Thanks, GiGi, for your reply about the fuller consideration of coinfections. Your willingness to share detials of your journey is very much appreciated - it sure gives me hope.
Again, best wishes for a memorable exploration.
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Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
A note about the nosodes needed for this treatment.....
``D'' potencies in Europe are the equivalent of ``X'' potencies in the USA. So, the USA (and probably U.K.) equivalent of the Bb nosodes would be: 5X, 6X, 8X, 10X, 12X, 15X, 30X, 60X, 100X and 200X.
Some of these potencies are a bit `odd' - not considered standard potencies - and extremely low for nosodes, and some of these potencies (5, 6, 8, 10, 60, and 100X) are NOT readily available from Remedia (the link Sparkle posted), and the potencies publicly listed at Ainsworths and Helios labs in London are very limited. That doesn't mean that these labs don't carry them or can't make them - just that they aren't on the public list.
GiGi also mentioned another Borrelia nosode that Dr. W. sometimes uses. I think it may have been Borrelia afzellii, but I cannot find that information in this thread. Nor can I find the name of the European lab where GiGi ordered her nosodes. I didn't think it was Remedia, but I'm just not sure.
GiGi, if you are still around...... could you either repost that information from the first thread, or at least provide the name of the `additional' nosode Dr. W. sometimes uses and the lab where you ordered your nosodes? Also, I'm assuming that the smallest quantity or size of the vial is adequate? I'd like to get this information saved for future reference. In fact, I may order the nosodes sooner rather than later just to make sure I have some while I can still get them. Regulations are becoming more restrictive.
One other question I have is whether or not these nosodes should be replaced periodically. I know that natural sunlight will destroy homeopathic remedies, and while infrared light is quite a bit different, it is possible that prolonged use of infrared light passing through these vials will somehow degrade the nosode.
Oh, Selma, I just saw your post. I'll have to re-read and respond later. Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
GiGi if you haven't left yet, what should we order for the nosodes, like truthfinder, I'm just going to order them.
Posted by paulito11 (Member # 15824) on :
quote:Originally posted by sparkle7: ... Many of these instruments say they have frequencies in the XXX Hz range but it's not really possible to cycle the LEDs at these rates...
Please let me jump in as these statement is misleading. If someone claims that you cannot pulse LED light at higher frequencies than s/he does not understand how simple remote controler works
Typically it uses frequencies of 36 to 56 thousands (kilo) Herz. So if your TV set is swithed on when you push your controller button that means infrared LED panel like one in Bionics can be pulsed at similar frequencies. In fact, it is possible with both higher and lower frequencies.
The biological effect of such a pulse is different story and there is no consensus as to that. It would be however against laws of quantum physics if it does not depend somehow on the frequency of the pulse.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Thanks, Paulito. It's something that I really don't know much about & I'm going to do further research.
---PS - Is the tv remote a laser or LED? The man I spoke with said that there is a difference between laser pulsing & LEDs. Lasers are very inexpensive now. They make pointers & flashlights with lasers these days & you can get them in regular stores for $5-10.
One has to consider strobe lights that have been around for a while, as well... So, I don't really know what to think considering pulsed lights. I have to give it some further thought.
Also - thanks Truthfinder for the info regarding nosodes & dosages/potentcy. I found this info about the various systems they use for making them. Turns out there are different "styles" of creating homeopathic remedies.
You may have to search further for the info that you need. I'm just putting out what I find. I hope it gets people thinking & adding corrections or further research.
9. The ninth way of using a nosode is as a homoeopathic remedy made from the patient's own disease substances.
This is called the AUTO-NOSODE. This method has sometimes helped patients when nothing else seems to work.
Hahnemann once had a patient suffering from phthisis that was not responding to well chosen remedies.
This led him to prepare an auto-nosode made from the saliva of the patient. Auto-nosodes have been made from sputum, blood, urine, pus, leucorrhoea, exudates from skin eruptions, and microbes from cultures of the patient, etc.
This is often tried when nothing else works. Nevertheless, with observation homoeopaths should be able to develop the characteristic symptoms of the auto-nosodes.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
PS -
re:
Borreliosis treatment without antibiotics
More than 100 patients with borreliosis were treated successfully with the bio-photone-therapy. The treatment profile is described as follows:
THE FORMULA The authors of the following article are Thomas Lawler (President/Founder, BioRenew, Inc.), and Chris Kotter (BNP, LMT) - Contact them via www.biorenew.com, or [email protected].
The contents of this email are for information and historical purposes only, and is not a personal endorsement of any specific medical treatment.
THE FORMULA Here is how to make a nosode: Note: This is not the typical Hahnemann style of making a homeopathic remedy. This way is faster, much easier and requires less equipment - yet still as effective. All of which is critical when time is of the essence.
1) You will need to get a sample of the pathogen from an infected person.
Saliva, blood, urine or the pus from a sore all contain the disease. They all work well, the more sources combined, the better.
2) Use a clean glass jar (approximately pint size) and collect the samples, then fill the test of the jar with drinking water. Mix or shake well. This is your mother tincture.
3) Empty your jar leaving only the amount in the jar that sticks to the sides.
4) Succussion: This process energizes the new water with the energy from the original mixture but at a minute level. The process requires hitting the covered jar down firmly 100 times against a stable object such as a book. Many practitioners use a bible.
5) Repeat steps 3 and 4 twenty-eight (28) times by filling up the jar with drinking water, succussing 100 times, then emptying it out.
6) On the 30th time fill the jar as follows: a) 80% drinking water and 20% pure grain alcohol (golden grain) - OR - b) 60% drinking water and 40% vodka
Note: The golden grain or vodka serve as a preservative.
At a 30c concentration [meaning that the remedy has been diluted thirty times by a factor of one hundred], there is no original physical substance remaining.
The dilution is now purely vibrational with the power to stimulate the body to heal itself. Take 10 drops under the tongue 3 times a day as a preventative.
Or 5 drops every 30 minutes in an acute infection. Allow 30 seconds to a minute to be absorbed before talking or swallowing.
Avoid food or drink 20 minutes either side of taking the remedy.
We'll so be looking forward to what you have to say on your return!!
Love,
Cass A
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Thank you, Cass.
I just added this to the thread "Turning Diabetic" - so will post it here too:
One of the benefits of the borrelia eradication with the Bionic 880 is that the sugar metabolism seems to be improving, i.e. diabetes mellitus, insulin dosis reduction, also in Type 1.
That along with normalizing allergic reactions to insects, bees, wasps, hornets, foods.
It can't come much better than this. Just saw this post and thought I would add it --
Take care.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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GiGi,
piece-meal is fine - however this comes, whatever works for you - this is hope regardless of the number of baskets it comes in.
If it's close enough to anyone and someone could attend maybe we could get some more information. Thought I'd pass it along.
If we do have questions for Dr. W. maybe we should post it on this thread to those going to germany. At least the questions would be organized and filtered without pestering Dr. W.
I'm also excited about all of what GiGi has posted.
And Sparkle thanks for taking the time to better describe homeopathy and nosodes.
Shouldn't we now call this the Dr. W. protocol? Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Good luck, GiGi!
Anything I post is just for informational purposes. We all like to take an active role in find a cure or at least a remedy.
I may start trying things over the next few weeks. I'm still ruminating all the info.
We look forward to any further info to help our plight.
If we try some other device - we should just try it on our own. I don't think it would be right to pester Dr. W. He has arrived at his method & it works for him.
We need to do experimentation on our own until we get further information about this treatment.
Posted by psano2 (Member # 11711) on :
Gigi, Thank you for all the info you've shared. I'm looking forward to hearing great things from you.
I keep thinking about it, and more and more am thinking about doing it. I just wish I knew how many months it would take for me.
Have a great trip.
Patti
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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I certainly understand what GiGi is saying and why (The method has been fine-tuned over a period of many years, and it works beautifully ---IF done to specs).
Very well stated. And, it will be great when more learn this - glad the doctor is lecturing about it.
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Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I understand this GiGi. I for one will not blame you if things go wrong. I have heard this concept before from religious teachers who do not want their practices diluted. It's OK...
In a perfect world, people would be open-minded & rigorous in discipline about treating those who are ill. They would be ethical & have principles & compassion. People who are ill & have no way to earn a living would be given treatments that actually work & disability money. Not be forced to take harmful, useless & expensive medicines by practicioners who don't have a clue.
Whatever path I take, I will do it on my own volition. I will not be blaming this one or that if I cannot succeed. It's just not my personal philosophy to sit around blaming people for my own misfortune.
On a positive note... maybe it will work!
I just don't have the money to go to Germany for a few months or wait around until something happens. Too many years of my life have gone by in serious pain.
Do you think I would be spending hours & hours researching alternatives if I had the money to go to the source? I'm not teaching anyone anything nor am I practicing anything on anyone other than myself.
We are all just people trying to get well as best as we can & sharing information. Maybe some people here are trying to sell stuff... I don't know.
When I first became ill, I thought this way that we are treated is like "do-it-yourself chemotherapy". No one was holding my hand & giving me advice about taking all these supplements & abx.
These medicines are serious stuff.
"Here... read about how to use a PICC line & do it yourself. Tell your doctor what drugs you want to try... Does your doctor even have a clue??? Who knows.... The tests are all inaccurate. OK pay-up $10,000 for overpriced drips & shots of Immunoglobulin & pills made of earthworms. Does the nurse even know what she's doing? How come she missed the vein, like, 5 times? That's another $650." WTF
I'd much rather experiment with light & homeopathy than PICC lines & "do-it-yourself chemo".
No one is going to blame you GiGi... you shared what you found out as best as you could. We appreciate that.
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
I have spoken to the doctor in Berlin and he says that one has to wait 2 - 3 weeks for an appointment, initial charge is 180 euros. The 120 euros.
I rang a therapist in Berlin and she charges 130 euros for first consultation then 35 euros for treatments!!!
For myself, i need to see someone who is experienced in mercury toxicity so I am not sure if I can get away with having the therapist only or maybe initial consultation with a doctor then see a therapist after. Not sure.
For anyone who wants to go to Germany with the cheapest option, then Berlin is best I think. The rates for hostels is extremely cheap, I saw them for 6 euros last year but for a single room it is more.
English is spoken widely in Berlin and the food is extremely cheap indeed. You can eat for as little as 3-4 euros all day breakfast. There is a tradition of providing cheap food for the poor. And Berlin is a great city!
Posted by paulito11 (Member # 15824) on :
quote:Originally posted by sparkle7: -- Is the tv remote a laser or LED? The man I spoke with said that there is a difference between laser pulsing & LEDs. Lasers are very inexpensive now. They make pointers & flashlights with lasers these days & you can get them in regular stores for $5-10.
Sparkle7, tv remote is infrared LED. There are many more technical variables however which make particular instrument. Bionic is pulsed infrared LED array. There are many research projects on biological effectc of IR LED instrument, including positive ones from NASA (mainly for healing and cells stimulation/regeneration). From my perspective, there is enough data regarding Bionic instrument that technicaly I see no problem for myself to build similar one. I guess however, that there is something more to it than that. Maybe, it is particular way of using it with borrelia nosodes or something in the instrument that is not revealed. In fact, the cost of Bionic makes me wonder - to my knowledge (MSc in electronics & information technology:-) one can easily build such an instrument for 1500 dollars, including FAT profit margin, so I do not really understand 6000 Euros price. Maybe, the proponents of the technology decided to profit on the instrument, not on service (treatment) for whatever reason. Maybe it is something else, I have not grasped yet:-)
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Paulito11
quote:so I do not really understand 6000 Euros price.
The only thought I have that could justify the price is a non-standard diode. If they are customizing the diodes without patents. When we think of a frequency, we view as a 2 dimensional square wave of 880nm in length. If we look at more three dimensionally it can be 880nm but pattern more like a cork screw. If you pulse it at a specific frequency, you have to imagine the resulting dispersion can be much different.
Factors to consider in a customized diode: dispersion, the kind of 880nm wave ie cork screw, light intensity, and the resulting yield in biophotons into the body and depth of dispersion and the physics behind it. I'm guessing Fritz Popp has been tinkering with diode technology in his research and it is nothing off the shelf.
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
Selma, that is interesting that low-potency homeopathics - potencies that are closer to the original substance - are absorbed better via laser than when ingested, and yet pure substances like herbs and essential oils are not. And perhaps it is the process of `potentization' - dilution AND succussion (pounding or shaking) - that enhances and preserves the power of the original substance so that it isn't as easily destroyed versus an herb or oil.
And/or, it appears that the simple but peculiar and necessary process of potentization transforms the energy of the substance so that it can act in the `light field' of the body rather than within the limited realm of `organic chemistry'.
How can this be? I certainly can't answer that, but it's certainly gratifying that some bright minds in the medical and scientific fields are trying to sort it out and put it to use for betterment of man (and beast).
Selma, are you considering a visit to Dr. W. for your daughter?
Bob, I like your analogy. You mentioned a device to look at the diminished light in the body..... perhaps Kirilean photography could be adapted for that purpose? A number of years ago, I had a Kirilean `video' done just out of curiosity. And during the 15 minutes or so while the camera was running, I sniffed various essential oils to see if it would impact my `aura'. It did. I wish now that I'd known about homeopathy and I might have tried inhaling (or ingesting) a homeopathic remedy. (For a time, `olfaction' was Hahnemann's preferred delivery method.) That might have been VERY interesting.
**''I found an energetic tester willing to do my entire group for free if one gets formed.''** Bob, that is absolutely terrific! Wow, what a generous offer - I hope there are some other experienced practitioners out there willing to take some risk and offer some of their time.
I hope Tailz is reading this thread - very interesting about the EMF interference with treatment!
Also, I believe this is worth repeating from Dr. W. (via Gigi): **''And I do remember him saying "no energetic treatments between photon treatments". In other words, don't rife or doug, or similar thereby possibly exposing yourself while doing it to other electromagnetic F's which are not beneficial. House current........''**
I suspect that this might also include `no homeopathic remedies' for a couple of weeks before the first 880/nosode treatment, and no homeopathics between treatments, either. I'm guessing, but homeopathics probably qualify as `energetic treatments'.
Although I agree that nothing will happen if everyone sits on the fence for too long waiting to see what transpires, it might be a bit premature to go much further than collecting a list of people who are definitely interested and able to participate in a geographic group.
Our knowledge base here of verifiable success stories is pretty small. Gigi's husband probably shouldn't be considered a `typical' TBI case so the results there could be mixed. (Or they could be amazing and incredible.)
Participating in an 880 group will be a big commitment and an investment. IF we can get some more first-hand accounts - perhaps from Mati, Selma, Hoping or others - and IF the results are positive, I suspect that the Maryland and Massachusetts groups will begin to take shape.
I was more than willing to order the nosodes now since that would not be a big financial risk if I never get to use them. But beyond that, sitting here in Colorado, I'm not sure what else I can do or should do.
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
True Sparkle, there are different `styles' of homeopathic remedies (X, C, and LM dilution processes) and different methods of making the same potencies (Hahnemann and Korsakovian methods). There is always something new to learn.
I don't think all the potencies are used at once during the Bionic 880 treatment. I think the practitioner `tests' the person first for which potency they need at that time. I'm not certain, though - a clear distinction wasn't made about that.
While it may seem odd to use more than one potency at a time, if you read up on the Korsakovian method of making remedies, the same vial is used over and over when diluting and succussing the remedy; thus, the final product actually contains a bit of each dilution or potency that occurred during the entire process! So, in essence, the remedy contains all potencies up to the designated potency listed on the bottle. (Most USA labs use the Hahnemann method.)
I've made and used auto-nosodes several times. I only used the Hahnemann method once and it was a total pain. Auto-nosodes can have an amazing effect, especially for acute problems when no standard remedy really fits or works. I caught a rotten cold once and had tried 7 different standard remedies with no effect. I even got my homeopath involved and she came up with the same remedies I'd already tried. So, I made a 12C auto-nosode out of my own nose mucus (sorry, don't mean to be gross) and I started to have immediate action after the first dose. I think it only took 3 doses and maybe 3 hours, and that cold was history. (And by the way, beginning with 12C - or 24X or D - there is no original substance left - just energy.)
Gigi said: **''People, doctors and others, take the course, attend it once, and then start altering the method to their own liking, comfort, convenience, and then find all of a sudden that it doesn't work anymore.''**
What Gigi described in her post is precisely what is happening in the field of classical homeopathy. New methods often don't translate into improvement upon the existing system; more often, the reverse is true and the system no longer works.
I'll post this again if people are trying to figure out costs:
As of June 13, 2008:
1 Euro = $1.53092 USD (US Dollars)
Here's a handy currency-converter website for all kinds of world currencies if you want to bookmark it: http://www.gocurrency.com/ Posted by hopingandpraying (Member # 9256) on :
Mati - Gigi mentioned the Biophoton treatment takes care of detox also (see her previous posts). You were concerned about mercury toxicity.
Glad to hear your plans are working out for your trip to Berlin. All the best!
Sparkle7 - I completely understand what you have and are going through. We've been there over the past eight years!
We are like pioneers having to keep looking for the answers (Lymenet is a great source of information!).What works for one may not necessarily work for another.
Instead of having to "go it alone" with trial and error, perhaps the group Lyme_in_MD (Bob) is putting together would benefit you more. I don't know if you are able to travel, but everything would be in place and all you would need to do is get the treatment.
Believe me, the only way were are able to go to Germany is because my family is helping us. Whatever you decide, I truly wish you and all those who are ill complete healing.
Posted by hopingandpraying (Member # 9256) on :
Gigi - great news! Thanks for the update!!
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Tracy, just sent you an email, as the topic is going stray from the Bionic.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Have a good trip. We're rooting for you. Perhaps you can post while you're over there, if not, we'll be eager to hear when you get back.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Thanks Gigi for the info on rubbing + lasering.
have a good trip. I hope you'll find an internet cafe like the one in Kirchzarten!!
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I wish everyone well!
I am still alittle skeptical of all of this. I've been researching stuff all day. There are about a zillion different devices being marketed & targeted towards people with all of the "new" maladies.
It's a huge market & people that you wouldn't expect to be hawking stuff, are hawking stuff.
I hope everything goes well with GiGi but I still think we should keep an open mind. I think the idea of treating symptoms with infrared light is a good one.
I'm still a bit skeptical of the Bionic 880 & why it's so expensive. My intuition is telling me that it's not that they use "special" engineered LEDs or different frequencies.
I have nothing against people making money but there is "tricknowlogy" going on in this world.
I don't trust "alternative" practicioners any more then I trust allopathic doctors. It's all the same to me.
There are hucksters trying to make money off of sick people everywhere you look.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Sparkle, yes, it is sad that some plot to take advantage.
However, there are also many dedicated people working very hard to solve some of the toughest problems ever. These are people working to give life back to those who have lost large chucks of it.
Cost - yes, it is rough for most of us. This research and development takes time and effort and it's only fair that people can cover their costs.
As most, I've no idea how I could make this work but hope for the creation of a foundation that will provide scholarships to many.
It may be a long time coming. Still, it starts with a flicker.
As for validation: as mentioned in an earlier thread: 2000 patients have seen great relief with this.
We are very lucky that someone - a couple people, it seems - are going over to explore this. They will report back and we'll all go from there. They are taking a risk just in the long, expensive journey. I'm sure they have their reasons to push on.
In the meantime, we are all wondering more about light's healing properties. And that's a good thing.
Sparkle, you too, have opened the door to some of that wonderment with all your links. You've really got me thinking - - that I shouldn't developed my scientific mind as this is all jumble to me.
And, with that, I recall my college summers splashing in the pool to Carly Simon's "It Was So Easy Then." We all just want it to be a little easier. That could happen.
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Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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GiGi,
If you get a chance, I wonder if you might ask the doctor if many of his patients have had sensory (startle) seizures even from the slightest input - usually of sound?
And, of course, I would delight in hearing that, if so, they are now less sensitive and seizure-free and startle-free.
Don't go out of your way but, hey, if it easily comes up, it sure would be great information.
Just curious, but no need to elaborate on my stuff.
Thanks.
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Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
That's very interesting about the Euro, GiGi. The war is just a part of it all. That's another topic, though. I think they will eventually do the same thing here between Mexico, Canada, & the US - the Amero is coming...
I really hope there are some good doctors out there! I've had a few but most are not ethical or compassionate.
No one can blame them - everyone is being squeezed.
We will still fight to get well despite all the negativity!
Good luck!
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
The Maryland group is still growing adding two new members today. We are going to continue to grow until we reach 25 and add some alternate just in case.
After GiGi posted the information about finding out more about Dr. Ws protocol, I suspect it prudent to go into wait mode until more is known.
The only actions the Maryland group will continue during this time. Is to continue to grow the group and to involve and inform health practioners to be for the group.
To all our health, Bob Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Thanks, GiGi. I'll sent you a brief note to your email.
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Posted by Clancy (Member # 8774) on :
Hopingandpraying, would you mind sending me a PM please? Thanks.
Posted by hopingandpraying (Member # 9256) on :
Clancy - PM sent.
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
Hi
I fly to Berlin on 31st July and have an appointment with Dr Ralf Heinrich on 7th August. I will be staying there for maybe a month or more and will keep in touch during my stay.
Posted by Alv (Member # 15192) on :
HI matti please keep us posted...I would have loved to be there too.I miss that place.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Thanks Mati! Good luck!!!
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
bump
thanks Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Sparkle, whatever came of you getting an LED? Did you?
660 is used for treating age spots and wrinkles, so if you get the device that has both 880 and 660, at least you can look younger even if it doesn't work for the Lyme. Posted by northstar (Member # 7911) on :
I dont know if these url's have been posted earlier, but here they are. They concern biophotons.
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I was really looking forward to how this was working...... I have been following and very interested. I hope you will at least tell us of your results?![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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But we have to verify that the protocol works first. And that the machine can be imported here legally, without hassles from the FDA.
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