I have searched for any recent updates from those who are currently or have in the past been on Buhner program (or know someone who has) and can share their experiences.
A general consensus based off several responses would be ideal, since for a while the Buhner name was all around LN, and now there is not much buzz.
All thoughts/experiences are very welcome!
Take care.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I am on Buhner's herbs for bart. I feel they do help with inflammation and lymph drainage. They make me tired which is not always a plus. I do fall asleep better than I was but I still have problems waking up way to early.
I do not know if they are actually doing anything to get rid of my bart though or just helping symptoms.
The Resveratrol Extra by Pure Encapsulations I am on is very pricey and I am still looking for a better source for it or something comparable without magnesium stearate in it. I do not know if the Resveratrol does anything for me or not but I feel the other herbal tinctures do.
Buhner recommends Resveratrol by Source Naturals but Source's has magnesium stearate in it which they will not be removing anytime soon because I talked to their product development man who just happens to be a friend.
Posted by Piegirl (Member # 14786) on :
I am just starting this protocol myself. I was only taking Smilax (sarsparilla) and herxed on it within two weeks. The herx was bad enough that my Naturopath has made me back off for a while.
Most people take Smilax for it's cleaning purposes but it is also antispiroketal. In my case it's killing something.
Smilax is not a part of the core protocol but it is in the book and is highly recommended by most people who take Buhner's herbs. I plan on also adding the core protocol later when I am able to take Smilax for longer.
Also there might not be alot of talk about this here lately because most people who follow this moved over to Lyme Aid Buhner which is a yahoo group. There is alot of info over there.
Various links here - you may find more of what you're looking for in the way of responses through the Planet Thrive site.
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Posted by Cass A (Member # 11134) on :
I started on Buhner's herbal protocol last year. I felt the Japanese Knotweed was helping, and was up to taking one each of the core protocol herbs 3 times a day.
However, after adding Andrographis and Stephania, I had a black-out that lasted over half an hour. When trying to get back onto the protocol at a lower gradient, this happened again.
So, I obviously couldn't continue with it.
If you want to ask more questions, check out the group at Planet Thrive, where you can get onto the Yahoo group for Buhner's herb support.
Best,
Cass A
Posted by yanivnaced (Member # 13212) on :
My wife's on several herbs including a few 'Buhner' ones such as Andrographis, Smilax, Cat's Claw. Other herbs are Teasel and Goldenseal.
She's been on it since Jan. It's worked well.
Posted by ptbrisa (Member # 16269) on :
I have been on Buhner herbs since Jan. They were working really well until April, when I had a set back from stress. Not doing so well now. I was taking andrographis, resveratrol and cats claw - = teasel root and eluethero. close to his max recommendation. Couldn't do max as it made me nauseated. I have Lyme and Babesia.
Posted by HamDune (Member # 14139) on :
Thanks everybody for you feedback so far. I am just getting rolling on the Buhner protocol, so I wanted to get a good amount of feedback.
Angelica, I seem to not be versed in the negative affect of magnesium stearate, so if you would not mind sharing with us what you know, I would greatly appreciate that.
Piegirl, thanks for giving me the heads up on the Yahoo discussion group. Please keep me (us) posted on how you are doing on the whole program and what you experience in the coming weeks. I will do the same with pleasure.
yanivnaced, you mentioned those herbs have worked well for your wife. That is great to hear! Would you mind elaborating just a bit on her experience as well as perhaps what (if any) co-infections she is experiencing.
Again, I appreciate the contributions. If anyone has anything else to add or questions for me, please do not hesitate.
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
I take some Buhner herbs, among dozens of other things and antibiotics. I feel that i need them.
I get some lyme-control from the antibiotics, but then a few hours later, i'm glad to have some Buhner herbs, needing something, but can't overdose abx. I feel better after taking them. Not sure if it's suppression or real treatment.
I take maximum doses of Andrographis (1600 mg 3 or 4 x/day), Polygonum (4000 mg 3 or 4 x/day), Teasel (1/4 or sometimes 1/2 tsp 2 or 3 x/day), and Sarsaparilla (1 pill a day).
I'm getting better in general, been on abx 4 years, added herbals 2 1/2 yrs ago. I also take a lot of other things, just as useful, i think!
Posted by disturbedme (Member # 12346) on :
I take some Buhner herbs, though not all of them.
I have been taking Andrographis and Boneset.
With the Andrographis, I herxed right away with that for two weeks straight. Andrographis is anti-spirochetal and crosses the blood-brain barrier. I feel that Andrographis is great.
Not sure about Boneset (which is for Bart). It hasn't given me a herx though I did have a positive Bart smear. I do think Boneset does something, since I believe it does help me to feel better after taking it sometimes. You don't always have to herx to mean something is working.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I did boneset, teasal, resveratrol, stephania, ramped up WAY too quickly, and something knocked me on my butt.
Posted by catskillmamala (Member # 12536) on :
I am not using Buhner at this time, but this group is a decent place to ask questions, etc.
I tried to add Buhner on top of oral abx and felt it made me decline significantly. Now I'm on iv abx for a few more weeks. When I come off, I plan to wean to oral abx, chinese herbs (prescribed by a practitioner) and rife. And then wean to herb/rife.
Posted by NorthernLyme1 (Member # 8992) on :
^^^^^
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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I am impressed with this after following it for a couple of months, now. It does make me more tired, but that is to be expected in light of the research and how much my body is going through.
I am doing better with this than with any other plan. Don't expect fast miracles. It's not about that but I am impressed and hope that a year from now I am able to actually take part in life.
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P.S. I forgot to mention, I had many apthous ulcers in my mouth - with severe burning for four solid years. NOTHING worked. (editing to add: allicin also worked, I now recall. I had to stop, though, as it raised tinnitus too high for me.)
After working up to the increased dose of andrographis, within a week, they were all nearly better. At week two, the ulcers burning was all gone. My mouth continues to be great, even after taking a week's break. No more burning. No more ulcers. Gum disease disappeared. This is very good news and bodes well.
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[ 23. November 2008, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by shoney (Member # 9925) on :
The magnesium on the Cowden protocol is magnesium sterate! Very confusing, when one protocol recommends it, another recommends against it.
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
Good to hear about the gum disease- andrographis is specific for gum disease spirochetes (and has been well studied for this- they were trying to figure out a topical toothpaste type application, which must have been hard due to the bitterness). I started Buhner and my dental checkups for gum disease got a whole lot better also (I had the beginning of gum disease and had very frequent checkups for a couple of years). Since dental spirochetes are known to penetrate the brain and cause unknown effects and potentially Alzheimers' at times, it seems really good to hear about this as well.
I had very, very good results with Buhner and became mostly symptom-free with just 6 months of oral antibiotics and a year or so of Buhner herbs. I was not a 'neuro' case or a cardiac case, so my disease may be easier to treat than some of you.
I eventually got reinfected with something, I think mostly babesia and not so much Lyme, and the Buhner Protocol didn't help (but neither did antibiotics till I added Mepron, and i hadn't tried artemesinin or the other babesia protocol from Buhner).
Boneset- really saved my butt when I was particularly sick the first time with just Lyme- the two things it does is act as a mild analgesic, and you can REALLY notice that if you're just a healthy normal person with the flu (I used to use it for flu). It helps with the body aches of flu, which is what my Lyme pain resembled at the time. The other things it does are immune-related and that may also explain what you guys see that' is symptom relief. I know there is some very good evidence that it is very effective in some viral conditions and was used successfully in the 1918 pandemic flu (as was andrographis in India when they got a milder pandemic a few years later) so for those of you with viral issues, it may be something to consider.
Lastly ,see the link in my signature for tons of archived Lymenet threads from 2006 right after the book came out- many people reporting all kinds of interesting effects.
Posted by nwisser (Member # 15682) on :
Here's a short version of my story: One success. I was able to take the herbs as the book suggests, but at first the herxes were pretty bad. I drank lots of water with lemon and took it easy.
So far, so good. My knees are a little stiff since the cold weather arrived, but nowhere near as bad as they were before the protocol. Andrographis and resveratrol are amazing herbs. Devil's claw, too, if you have arthritis. But first do the whole protocol, adapted to your needs as explained in the book, then choose which herbs to continue with according to how you respond to them.
Good luck!
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
I owe Buhner's herbs a lot.
I find they work very well for borrelia. But not so well for co-infections. Expect to get herxes, sometimes strong.
People get a strong reaction because the amount they take is not properly 'tuned', in my opinion. Or it also could be allergy or intolerance to a herb.
Buhner's herbs need support from cleansers. I was sent to ER once after taking too much andrographis.
I got well with very little of the protocol: many of his herbs but in small amounts compared to most people. I never reached 9 pills of andro a day. My highest amount (tolerable) was 6, and only short term.
I think andrographis works wonders with high load of borrelia. Cats claw works all the way (the one I used the longest).
Stephania is one of my favorites too. I also used lots of astragalus, bits of smilax, lots of teasel this last time, and I love eleuthero tincture too.
Combining with other Chinese herbs, it did work for me.
I started taking them at the end of 2005, and stayed with them until a few months ago! For about 2.5 years, these herbs were always with me!
Now I'm off all Buhner's herbs because borrelia is dormant for the moment.
Posted by nwisser (Member # 15682) on :
Andrographis also kills filarial worms, another bug the ticks download into us when they're done feeding.
Posted by Cass A (Member # 11134) on :
I tried Buhner's herbal formulas and went unconscious for about 25-45 minutes---twice. The second time, I was hospitalized for two or three days, as it looked like I had a seizure.
So, pay attention with them--they are not candy.
Also, I did some Babesia handling that he recommends, which seemed to go well. However, I've now been on Mepron/Zith for 6 months and still get night sweats, so the herbs obviously didn't finish the job.
Best regards,
Cass A
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
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Cass,
Which one were you on at the time, or the whole protocol and, if so, had you worked up to the full dose or at the lower doses for the beginning weeks?
Did you inform your doctor for input or explanation ? It would help others to know if it was from fainting or something else. I know that that there are contraindications for some of the herbs listed in his book but anything you could add would be helpful.
Also, if you could let Buhner know that would be very helpful, too, as I'm sure he would want to know and mention on his web site to consider mentioning any new contraindication for a particular herb.
Also, were you taking abx or other Rx with this and, if so, what?
All this can help others be aware of what combination of hergb and Rx - or at which week and working up to what dose you had the problem. Do you have AV ventric. ? If so, that can make a difference, too.
I know we are all different and have difference reactions. I may have the opposite reaction to what you experiences. I deal with seizures and, since being on this, I've not had one full seizure where I've hit the ground. For me, this is a godsend as I cannot tolerate any of the anti-seizure drugs to do problems with porphyria. Abx tx is also not an option for me for various reasons.
I hope you were able to isolate the triggers and I thank you for sharing so that we all can learn.
Merci beaucoup.
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[ 25. November 2008, 03:02 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
The herbs can be extremely strong. It's not 'because it's a herb, you can take as much as you want'.
Some people from lymenet herxed MORE on Buhner's herbs than on ANY antibiotics they took. Just keep reading the posts, you'll find quite a lot of people that herx more on herbs than on abx combos.
So taking anything, abx or herbs or no matter what, that kills without a THOROUGH cleansing protocol can send ANYONE to hospital. But in my view, it is not NECESSARILY because of bad herbs or bad abx combo.
Just candida albicans puts in your body around 70 different toxins when it dies off. We, lyme sufferers, have many more fungi-yeast than ONLY candida albicans.
Take a probiotic or the right vinegar that accidentaly kills some of candida, you'll have already these 70 toxins to get rid of. Add a bit of borrelia killers, and other coinfectoin killers, I think once I read it could go to HUNDREDS if not thousands of differnt toxins AT ONCE.
Inexperienced people like to play with toxins because they don't believe on them. I didn't believe on them either. That's why I was sent to ER. After the 2nd time, I learned my lesson.
What is important is not to reach maximum dose. What is important is to feel well again. I remember taking just 1/2 pill of Planetary Herbal formula of andro and getting herxes from it.
So I shifted to non-standardized andro from 1stchinese, which I prefer now because I find it's milder and my body accepts it better than the strongest version. Plus, it's much cheaper. and I 'tuned' each herb like that, slowly and mildly.
In the beginning, I wanted to get both babesia and borrelia at once and did both high dose artesmisinin plus higher basic protocol and it was the most stupid mistake I ever done.
Of course, there can be allergic reactions too. So one's gotta take care, try one herb at a time, slowly as possible.
In the end, I was only on cats claw and one or another herb, and still herxing. Until I had no more herxes nor lyme symptoms.
One of my mottos then became:
A herx can kill.
The other is: Slow and stead take you somewhere! Posted by clairenotes (Member # 10392) on :
I almost died on one dose of andrographis. My daughter, on the other hand, thrived on it for a time. We are all so different! Selma is right... slow and steady is key.
Resveratrol has always been really useful for our family. We simply used a Solaray brand, with herbs that come in a capsule. Source Naturals did not work nearly as well.
Claire
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Can one take BioPure Garlic while on buhner protocol?
Posted by riverspirit (Member # 19435) on :
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