This is topic Bionic 880 thread - promise I won't delete it in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by Nobody (Member # 16041) on :
Post your experiences and such here... I promise I won't kill the thread.

Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
Here is what I have collected on this guy over the last few months. I provide some information about his therapy. If anyone has patient reports directly having seen him, please PM me.


Dr. Ingo Woitzel
Hohenzollernstrae 81
75177 Pforzheim
Phone: 07231 -3135-33
Fax. 07231 - 3572 -68
E-mail: [email protected]
Specialty: General practitioner, Environmental Medicine, Natural Remedies
Notes: He performed: Bio-resonance therapie, Electrical acupuncture, Acupuncture, Homeopathy, Phytotherapy, Chiropractic, Breathing techniques, gentle manual therapy after Dorn. In the field of Lyme disease infection Dr. Woitzel working successfully with the new procedure Lichtquantentherapie. It is a gentle alternative to antibiotic treatment.

Additional Notes: Borreliosis is a bacterial disease which is caused by bites from ticks and other insects. Borrelia is classified within the spirochetes bacterial strain. Scientific experiments have shown that the cells maintain their metabolism using photons. In the illness Borreliosis, Borrelia infiltrate the cells and the photon balance of the cell is clearly decreased. It is for this reason that Photon therapy is used to treat Borreliosis.

Photon therapy using Bionic 880 with its four different frequency ranges in the infrared range makes it possible for us to have a positive effect on energy balance, metabolism and cell regeneration. Furthermore, we have discovered a smart way to successfully treat Borreliosis without administering antibiotics. Using photon therapy, the cells are in the position to remove invasive bacteria (and also viruses and toxic loads) away from the cells and thereby induce a normalization of the metabolism. By eliminating Borrelia from the cells there is an immune response within the lymphocytes, which finally destroys the Borellia.

In this phase the results are clear for the patient - his/her immune system reacts and we can clearly see this in the lymphocyte transformation tests, which are carried out regularly. From widespread application observations the following can be stated: In initially high lymphocyte reactions to Borrelia, Photon therapy brings about fast normalisation, i.e., after 5-8 treatments, tests are in the normal range. (The patient notices a continual improvement in his/her condition). In very low lymphocyte reactions there is a rapid rise in the immune reaction, which normalizes 2-3 months after therapy.

Here, the patients have clear reactions. Treating Borreliosis using photons has a success rate of well over 90 %. Experience using photon therapy has been going on for a period of 7 years now and we are happy to report that we have a relapse rate of only 1-2 %.

Requirements for treatment: Bionic 880 and Borreliosis Nosodes and if necessary Original Borrelia afzelii as mentioned in your letter. Setting on Bionic 880: Power: 100%; Frequency; F3; Time; 395 sec. (In some cases it may be necessary to use F1 instead of F3. Special test methods are needed for this).

Treatment: Nosodes and if necessary Original Borrelia afzelii are attached to 3 fingers beneath the sternum. This causes a demonstrable and considerable strain on the entire organism. The following S points are then treated: as stated in your letter. Application of the Borrelia to the Solar plexus is needed for a positive therapeutic sucess and to achieve a specific reaction, which would otherwise not occur. Treatment is to be carried out twice per week. There should be two days between each treatment, so as to avoid overload and over-reaction; 5 treatments are to be carried out in total and energetic testing as well as laboratory tests have to be carried out.

If the energetic testing is positive, on the same or the following days Photon therapy is to be carried out again. Reactions are to be observed for a period of one month, and no other energetic treatment using photons is to be carried out during this period.

Checks should be carried out monthly and if the result is positive it should be followed by one photon therapy. In application observations 108 patients were controllably treated and monitored over a period of 3 years, the rate of success was over 96 %; we have successfully treated well over 500 patients in seven years and up to now have only had 6 patients who had re-onset Borreliosis.

Determining factors of these were once again tick bites or stings from other insects signed by Dr. med Ingo Woitzel

Special Note: Physicians and health care providers in a number of countries use this therapy besides this doctor. Here are two webpages:

Webpage 1:
Webpage 2:
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Thanks for restarting the thread. [Smile]

This isn't on the Bionic 880 in particular, but it's a good article on what they are studying in regards to infrared light and its healing properties.

I'm going to Germany, hopefully in Sept, depends on when I get an appt. I'm currently trying to book one. There are several of us from the site going.

I've got nothing to lose, so I'm wiling to take the chance that it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't .... if it does, well, that would be great. [Smile]
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :

i just wanted my name to be on here since this one wont be deleted.

haha [Smile]

appreciate everyone sharing.

personally im waiting for sixgoofy and some others to go b4 i make a decision.

so far it seems everyone that has gone is "cured" but still has their "symptoms" ?


hopefully it will prove to be all that it is rumored and more.

thanks again for re starting a thread.



[ 06. August 2008, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: djf2005 ]
Posted by LittleLymie19 (Member # 15610) on :
I'm new-ish to all of this so I missed the debate.

But I'm just wondering, people who have tried this, have any of those people seen improvement in their symptoms?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Derek, I will keep you posted. I will post regular updates while I'm in Germany. I know I was chomping at the bit to hear how others were doing over there.

Little, GiGi's husband saw significant improvement in his symptoms. Two others who went have the same symptoms they had before they left, though they energetically test to be Lyme-free.

One of those has other issues he needs to see an orthopedic doctor for.

The other, we really don't know ... my guess is it could be a detox problem. I mean, think about it, you kill all the borrelia in three weeks! You're bound to feel bad especially if you're a slow detoxer. That person is still following Dr. W's directions and still feels the same. Of course, it could be that the treatment just didn't do anything for him.

I'm taking the risk. Like I say, I've got nothing to lose and all of you know I have no agenda and am not selling anything. Same with the three others going over at the same time as me.

I plan on coming back with a machine.
Posted by LittleLymie19 (Member # 15610) on :
That makes a lot of sense six.

I mean, I was just energetically tested and the herbs show to be killing the lyme (but not the coinfections), but I just keep getting worse and worse. Energetically I also show that I have major detox problems and that my body is storing everything that the herbs have killed off, including the neurotoxins.

So maybe that is the case with the folks who haven't improved as well.

So I guess in the end, if you have a detox problem like I do, the Bionic 880 is no better of a choice than anything's still not going to rid a system of the die off toxins. Darn.

[ 07. August 2008, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: LittleLymie19 ]
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Well, I think you would just have to find something else to get rid of the toxins. Getting rid of the Lyme is a HUGE step in the right direction. Plus, the infrared light has been proven to get rid of neurotoxins - this is from Marnie's post.

Do you take any binders, like chlorella or zeolite?

Read up on Dr. Shoemaker who is known for his detox work.

Also, I reread my post ... GiGi's husband saw miraculous improvement, not only can he hold a knife and fork again, but he can cook his wife breakfast. His wheelchair has a new home in their garage.
Posted by aklnwlf (Member # 5960) on :
Thank you for restarting the thread on the Bionic 880. There were many of us that were sincerely interested but were penalized along with the few that had different opinions.

Are there people still trying to start groups and purchase their own Bionic 880?

I hope that someone that has the greater good of the group as a whole at heart will share their experience with the rest of us.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
I'll be there with the September group and will try to post while I'm there. Unless of course sixgoofy and the rest of us are just having to much fun. [Wink]

I anticipate needing some sort of physical therapy when I return due to an old spinal fracture that the lyme has been loving.

I don't know how well I detox but if I need to do lots of that along with some work on my back - hey - lyme free is good enough for me!
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
That's the truth! We plan on at least having a BLAST together even if we don't get cured!!!!

I will keep posting my progress while I'm there. [Smile]

Alv, your mailbox is full. [Smile]
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
I wish all of you the best of luck in Germany!! I wish I could go... even if to only visit Germany...

I have my skeptism about the bionic880... but I am not going to put anyone down for trying it.

I feel it is really too good to be true, but that is just my opinion. I mean I dont know how something could eradicate a chronic intracelluar infection in 3 weeks???

I want to believe that something can cure us...

If I had money to spare I would probably go just to give it a shot... I want to be well more than anything in this world..

Good Luck everyone!!
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
I don't have one red cent to spare but like you said Unexpected -
I want to be well more than anything.

I've spent a small fortune on doctors, abx, supplements, tinctures, and years of time and suffering that you can't put a dollar amount on.

If there is a chance with the Bionic880 (which I believe strongly there is) than it will be money I will be happy to part with.

In the past, when I've set my mind to do something, I all of a sudden get very creative. I sold $2000 worth of junk and took a trip with a friend last year. It can happen.

Right now I'm looking around my house to see what I can sell so that maybe I can buy my own machine.
Posted by lymeparfait (Member # 14268) on :
Keep Posting. I am definately planning on going as well, but must wait for a later time. Would like to know if anyone else is planning on a Germany trip for treatment in the future? Would like to go with a group. And much appreciate all the comments on progress with the 880.

Posted by Dawnee (Member # 15089) on :
So... how much ARE the machines?
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
I'm extremely skeptical of this machine, however I continue to follow it.
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
email from the vendor

The price for the Bionic 880 is EUR 6.400,00 or USD 9,920.00
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
I'm heading over in sept also

I will be giving updates from germany to keep u all up to date.

I'm 50-50 on buying the machine..See how the 1st week goes and make a decision from there
Posted by herxuk (Member # 15873) on :
Thank You Nobody and Metallic for a thread that we can openly say, "" Is this too good to be true, can I really allow myself to believe this "" but be able to continue to discuss this Treatment in a more adult manner. Little Lyme, toxins are a problem, whatever means you kill by, but I ask myself, " would a strengthened immune system by Infrared, allow better elimination of toxin's ", ??

Our body's at the moment, are not in as good a shape to deal with them, ( thank's to Bb ).

Some of us are trying, the LT wrk's , to see what measure of improvement we can gain, ( without claiming a Cure )

I RESENT being put down, by Scott and other's, before we have had the chance of giving it a try, and can report our finding's .
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Way to go! Keep the info flowing & the negativity in check.

We are all interested.

Even if some of us can't go to Germany... we can apply some of the knowledge gained - here, in our own ways.

It will be a great help to all of us. Please keep sharing.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Steelbone quoted the correct price but I believe that is if you have it shipped to you in the US. If you purchase it in Germany I believe it's about $1,000 less.

At least that's what the company emailed to me.
Posted by herxuk (Member # 15873) on :

I love your enthusiasm, you have just made my day brighter. Your name suit's you. [Big Grin]
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Most people seem to be going to Germany for 3 weeks only. I wonder if a longer time period would make a difference.

I understand the expense could be a factor, but am still wondering. I will be very interested in what you-- sixgoofykids and the others --have to say about it.

And when you come back and post I hope everyone will be civil or else scroll on by.

Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
Fragments from Gigi's original thread.

Here are some notes i took on the original lost thread. These bits and pieces are out of order, out of context. I don't have the patience like a Biblical scholar to establish the correct text.


This is topic We have returned with the Bionic 880 in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

To visit this topic, use this URL:;f=1;t=069156--------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on 16 July, 2008 09:47 PM :

We have returned from Germany. We are beat. The treatment takes its toll and it is not something one can take like a cup of afternoon tea. It is a strong treatment and it was this way even for me - who had no Lyme symptoms left before treatment.

However, I received our new instrument right upon arrival in Germany. (The one that never made it to our house, was still on its return flight that I had ordered) Let me assure you, our Bionic 880 came through without even the slightest problem. I declared it at customs at its full value in dollars\ and there was no duty to be paid. I had a letter from Dr. W. stating that we were patients under his care and that the light instrument in our possession was for continued therapeutical use at home.

We were very busy and very occupied with recuperating from one treatment to the next.
I was of the opinion that I had not borrelia that could present a problem to me any longer. I was tested on a Biocom 2000, similar to EAV, and I tested still positive for some of the very low potency nosodes. So I decided to do my own treatment on our own instrument as my husband was receiving his under the guidance of Dr. W.

I had upon arrival started to use the photon pain protocol on my defective (once broken/but mended foot) for just about 5 minutes (without of course any nosodes) - not longer because I knew we would get guided treatment on our first appointment the following day. Little did I know, within two hours I had an erythema the size of a chicken egg on my right arm - the same side where I had been bit in 1996. I showed what was left of it to Dr. W. the next day, our first appointment. Photons do a wakeup call - if I had ever doubted it, that was my confirmation that that stuff moves bugs.

The treatments for myself reactivated a lot of pulling and which had still remained in my face all through the years - I felt and took it as permanent damage to the facial nerve and involved muscles. It changed every day - even though the treatments were strictly to be kept at least with two days break in between. My husband had Mag IV with several other substances which every patient, if needed, picks up at the pharmacy nearby and is then used by the most efficient nurses. He also received blood/ozone infusions, starting small and getting larger. Same for some supporting homeopathics for organ support and toxin elimination. He also often resorts to structural corrections, different methods depending on patient. Most people who have been ill for a long time have a number of added problems that he finds and treats. If a patient does not want these, that is fine, but the results are limited by restrictions in posture. My husband definitely found to have a ``dead'' spot as a result of a back fracture and Dr. W. started to work on that, with improvement. Everything is limited by a short stay - three weeks is just not long enough to correct some of these very major problems - Lyme or not.
My facial problems have corrected themselves and I do not have any strong sensations. But I did not clear all nosode energetic testing and will continue a treatment once in a while. He does recommend to be very careful - the worst is overtreatment - which is done very easily, because it doesn't feel at the moment as if one is doing anything at all.
The results usually turn up 12-18 hours later - and varies greatly from patient to patient.

I also received (I asked for it and he tested me for okay) a blood ozone cleansing knowing that I had a few things stashed away in my body - who doesn't at my age!
I was totally wiped out the day following and could hardly navigate - I started to feel sympathy with chronic fatique people! Never knew what it felt like, because I never lacked energy whatsoever. I was back to myself a couple days later and glad to get rid of whatever it was.

My husband also has not cleared all Lyme nosodes yet, so at the appropriate time we will treat ourselves. I learned the biotensor testing, but do not quite trust myself yet. It takes a clear mind and who doesn't have a wish when testing husband or friend. It takes a certain discipline that I have not quite acquired yet.

I was introduced to a patient by Dr. W. who was being treated in another room - he patient greeted me with ``GiGi, you are the reason I am here''. He looked pretty bad just starting his second photon treatment. Looked and acted even worse (to a watchful eye) following the third treatment. We saw him again after his fifth treatment - a totally different person! I do not have permission to describe details. He flew home with his Bionic 880 feeling much better and continuing treatment at home. He needs more corrective work, I am sure. But no doubt, the few treatments he had were the turnaround!

Be aware, that anyone who has been ill for years is not going to be totally cured after five treatments. It is very clear from the power point presentation that I have received (am not permitted to distribute it via the internet) that with the elimination of the borrelias out of the cells which the photons activate, there will follow an immune reaction with the lymphocytes, who will then finally destroy the borrelia, remove other pathogens and toxins from the system - over time. The patient notices steady improvement of symptoms and also will have certain reactions, not always pleasant. What took years to damage aided by excessive drugs and abx will take some time to normalize. That is the reason for the continued observation by the doctor, making certains tests are negative, or treatment once a months if still positive. Every single patient brings a different body to the table.

We found Dr. Woitzel most caring and always ready to do what is necessary. I have never been to an office where the office personnel was more kind and attentive.

The cost is most reasonable knowing what things cost in this country. The low dollar is a negative, but c'est la guerre.

Dr. Woitzel assured me that he will respond to all reasonable e-mail and phone calls. I have tried him on this already and he happened to answer the phone himself.

Please know that the Bionic 880 is patented. I myself could care less how and why - and am not making an attempt to get any of the details. Anyone with a brain to put this thing together and carry it out as just about the easiest tool I have ever touched - that is superbly effective - deserves to be rewarded for the work. The earlier editions were slightly different, with less frequency choices. Dr. Woitzel started his first treatment - I think he said seven years ago - with a little 3-year old girl whose parents brought her to him ``please, no antibiotics - just get her well''. He started to ``play'' with this method, altering it slightly as he went along over the years, but the little girl is still very well today.

He also introduced me to a lady who had Lyme for many years, but was reinfected that same week again clearing around her garden: She was in so much pain, called Dr. Woitzel after having heard of him; he told her to come in in two hours. She was in so much pain, checked herself into the hospital. They told her to go to her PCP. She then went straight to Dr. W. He started treatment. On her third treatment, he introduced me to her. She had been in pain from top of head to toe. Still some in the head area that morning. After the third treatment, all pain was gone. She came back several more times, but was painfree. She was one happy lady.

I have asked him to please supply me with some phone numbers of people I can call. I promised him only I would call whenever he gives me the okay. Some of the people that have seen him over the years. He said he would send me a mail as soon as he had time.
They are moving to other quarters and are quite busy.

We purchased the Scenar Home version - am still practicing on my husband's back trying the reestablish ``electricity''. I wish we could have stayed there because he definitely has more ideas than I ever thought of.

I can treat ``us'' with any nosode, any substances, any med, any homeopathic. He gave me lots of ideas I can work with using the Bionic 880.

Now I have got to get to my weeds growing out of our gutters - clean the skylights - and come back to cooking baking grandchildren putting up fruits etc etc etc

I want to warn you - I do not have a minute to waste on arguing whether this is a genuine instrument or crooks trying to sell us flashlight! I have made up my mind a long time ago - even if my husband will not fully recover because of permanent damage from Lyme or other causes - a possibility I mentioned before we sought the treatment - this instrument works.

I started to give our landlady at Gaestehaus Klein the weight loss protocol with the photons - and she looked like she was slimming down after the six treatment!!! I don't have a smoker in the family, but know that it works in just about four days to get rid of the dependency. I feel the same way as the Canadian Lady who has the instrument - I will never sell it - and am most grateful that I was able to bring it with us without even the slightest problem.

And energetic testing is a must to do the treatment

Dr. Woitzel's very strong and always repeated opinion is that very few patients that come to him have ``only'' Lyme disease, especially the patients coming from the U.S. after receiving many months of antibiotics and multiple antibiotics (he was obviously quite surprised at some of the protocols some people had been under). His comments were all the resultant damage also has to be repaired, usually leaky gut, allergic reactions, etc.

It seems I have heard all of that before -- there is usually more to chronic Lyme - but the photons from the Bionic 880 start the turnaround!

Take care.

P.P.S. I also had a talk with the ladies whose story I posted about earlier -- both had suffered from Lyme for several years and both were lucky enough to become totally well within the first five Bionic treatments. He also treated the husband of one of these ladies, who had suffered from an intestinal problem for many years. He is also well since then. Both women tried before photon therapy to get abx, but were refused longterm abx therapy. It turned out to be to their benefit. It is commonly not done in Germany. We had gone to one in southern Germany during my early stage of Lyme in 1998 and was denied any abx by is known to be a Lyme expert, Dr. Dieter Hassler. When I told Dr. Woitzel about our experience there, he was fully aware of many similar situations with that doctor.

I am absolutely and totally convinced that the Bionic 880, if done to protocol, as long as other problems are also dealt with, is the greatest solution for Lyme I have come across.
If anyone cares to call Mrs. Kunold, google Kunold Lyme, you will find her website. She also lectures on Bionic and Lyme. I understand the manufacturer (very small company) are in training sessions last weekend in Holland and Germany and therefore not answering mails. They put on approx. 60 sessions of training seminars a year ----

[ 16. July 2008, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: GiGi ]


Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on 16 July, 2008 11:35 PM :


Thanks for the update. Just to clarify, can Dr. W treat bart and mycoplasma as well as lyme?

Does his treatment help with food allergies?

Different infections can be treated that way. Most problems are treated with the toxin. Some people even bring in the items that make them sick. Frequency, time exposure, intensity is tested energetically before the photons are applied. This I was told by other therapists who are treating literally everything that way.

Someone gets sick eating some food. Bring food in and use photons. It works. I have read many different case histories.

Dr. W. also uses the Biocom for treatment of fungi, food allergies, etc. Others use the Bionic 880 and nothing else.
I would not consider this a potential successful treatment for Lyme. IT IS A SUCCESSFUL TREATMENT FOR LYME IF ALL CONDITIONS ARE MET. He has also found that in recent years, EMF exposure has to be eliminated for the treatment to work. Stay away from i-Pods - you are a walking antenna (if you can still walk) for other i-Pod users.
Frequent Contributor
Member # 259

It is recommended not to read or make conversation
or watch TV during the treatment. Positive or negative energy immediately change the biochemistry. Just let things happen, sit back and relax.

I do not fear EMF in general as I used to because I have detoxed massive heavy metals. EMF's do not resonate with similar frequencies in my body any longer.

We stayed in a small town at 700 m altitude with lots of fresh air. It is a town with several rehabs and clinics and the town provides for a 1.80 Euro a day a pass to take the bus down the hill, catch the little three wagon train (that runs like clockwork on time)to Pforzheim to get off near the doctor and then go back up 'home' when treatment is over.

I just tested my husband energetically to check how much remains of the Borrelia. When we started the photon therapy, he tested positive for nine of the ten borrelia nosode vials. Now after the 8th treatment, he is down to two that still test positive. That means that he has barely a molecule of borrelia left in his body.

Dr. W. gave me different instructions today to treat him without nosodes, with different frequencies, different positioning of the lighthead, of the hormone balancing protocol. He gave me a certain mix of protocols for the next three weeks, four protocols a week, and asked me to report the results to him. I think I will behave and do exactly as he said.

I just tested my husband energetically to check how much remains of the Borrelia. When we started the photon therapy, he tested positive for nine of the ten borrelia nosode vials. Now after the 8th treatment, he is down to two that still test positive. That means that he has barely a molecule of borrelia left in his body.

Dr. W. gave me different instructions today to treat him without nosodes, with different frequencies, different positioning of the lighthead, of the hormone balancing protocol. He gave me a certain mix of protocols for the next three weeks, four protocols a week, and asked me to report the results to him. I think I will behave and do exactly as he said.
Subject: how longstop abx befor Bionic 880?

GiGi, I have a couple more questions.

I am currently on abx/anti-malarials, plus herbs/supps.

When/if I go to Germany for treatment, I assume I have to quit at least the drugs, which brings me to my questions:

1) How long do you have to be off meds for treatment? After about 4 weeks off meds I decline, so I want to stay on for as long as I can so I'm strong for the trip.

2) Can you continue with supps and herbs? I am also talking about herbs like the Cowden products.

3) What about thryroid meds? Pain killers? Sleeping meds?

I know you might not have all the answers, but I thought I'd run it by you. Thanks so much for continuing to post on this.
as of this night, my husband cleared all 10 nosodes of bb. So according to my own testing he is Lyme free. 3 days ago he had three of the weakest ones left to clear. next day 2, yesterday one, and today none.

We have not treated borrelia the last few days, because we were instructed to do some hormone balancing (Bionic) and some other protocol with a different frequency, the purpose of which I have not quite understood yet. All done without nosodes. So, it seems to me that the immune system starts to kick in at some point and take over the work, nosodes or not.

My husband still has varying symptoms - motoric only. Dr. Woitzel emphasized the physical therapy.

Tonight he tested for heavy metals. But I have also been told by Dr. W. to go as slowly as possible with detoxing the metals, to avoid damage. I am activating the spine with the Scenar, a neet tool for home use which he taught me while there. I rubbed in 5 drops of DMPS, vagus and spine, and applied Bionic photons on it for 50 seconds - all of it energetically tested with the biotensor
Subject: Bionic 880,Dr Woitzel's letter

Here is some info they sent me from Germany. I wonder if anyone in the
USA has this machine. It cost about 10,000$. Ruth

Treating Borreliosis by Dr. med. lngo Woitzel
Borreliosis is a bacterial disease which is caused by bites from ticks
and other insects. Borrelia is
classified within the spirochetes bacterial strain.
Scientific experiments have shown that the cells maintain their
metabolism using photons. In the
illness Borreliosis, Borrelia infiltrate the cells and the photon
balance of the cell is clearly decreased. It
is for this reason that Photon therapy is used to treat Borreliosis.
Photon therapy using Bionic 880 with
its four different frequency ranges in the infrared range makes it
possible for us to have a positive
effect on energy balance, metabolism and cell regeneration.
Furthermore, we have discovered a smart way to successfully treat
Borreliosis without administering
Using photon therapy, the cells are in the position to remove invasive
bacteria (and also viruses and
toxic loads) away from the cells and thereby induce a normalization of
the metabolism. By eliminating
Borrelia from the cells there is an immune response within the
lymphocytes, which finally destroys the
Borellia. In this phase the results are clear for the patient - his/her
immune system reacts and we can
clearly see this in the lymphocyte transformation tests, which are
carried out regularly. From
widespread application observations the following can be stated:
In initially high lymphocyte reactions to Borrelia, Photon therapy
brings about fast normalisation, i.e.,
after 5-8 treatments, tests are in the normal range. (The patient
notices a continual improvement in
his/her condition). In very low lymphocyte reactions there is a rapid
rise in the immune reaction, which
normalizes 2-3 months after therapy. Here, the patients have clear
Treating Borreliosis using photons has a success rate of well over 90 %.
Experience using photon
therapy has been going on for a period of 7 years now and we are happy
to report that we have a
relapse rate of only 1-2 %.
Requirements for treatment:
Bionic 880 and Borreliosis Nosodes and if necessary Original Borrelia
afzelii as mentioned in your
Setting on Bionic 880:
Power: 100%; Frequency; F3; Time; 395 sec.
(In some cases it may be necessary to use F1 instead of F3. Special test
methods are needed for
Nosodes and if necessary Original Borrelia afzelii are attached to 3
fingers beneath the sternum. This
causes a demonstrable and considerable strain on the entire organism.
The following S points are
then treated: as stated in your letter.
Application of the Borrelia to the Solar plexus is needed for a positive
therapeutic sucess and to
achieve a specific reaction, which would otherwise not occur.
Treatment is to be carried out twice per week. There should be two days
between each treatment, so
as to avoid overload and over-reaction; 5 treatments are to be carried
out in total and energetic testing
as well as laboratory tests have to be carried out. If the energetic
testing is positive, on the same or
the following days Photon therapy is to be carried out again. Reactions
are to be observed for a period
of one month, and no other energetic treatment using photons is to be
carried out during this period.
Checks should be carried out monthly and if the result is positive it
should be followed by one photon
In application observations 108 patients were controllably treated and
monitored over a period of 3
years, the rate of success was over 96 %; we have successfully treated
well over 500 patients in
seven years and up to now have only had 6 patients who had re-onset
Borreliosis. Determining
factors of these were once again tick bites or stings from other insects.
signed by
Dr. med Ingo Woitzel

To learn using the Bionic 880 takes my 8 year old granddaughter less than two minutes. It is the simplest gadget ever.

The important part is: Energetic testing by machine or by hand (ART, EAV, Biocom, etc. etc.) is a prerequisite. The core piece of course is the Bionic 880 in place. Parallel to this, the important part is to be trained and have access to the many different alternative support modalities that are available. When the photons start opening the floodgates of stored refuse in weakened cells one needs to be ready to help flush things out. It takes a little klinghardt or a big klinghardt to know how and what to do when that happens. The longer the illness and stored antibiotic residue and other drug leftovers, the more attention is then needed. That is what the assisting practitioner has to be able to do -

Dr. Woitzel uses little supplemental meds. Some Mag IV's and possibly some homeopathics for clearing organs. Ozone is applied (blood laundry!) Others I talked to use stabilized oxygen infusions (or oral) several times a week before and during. Some add other detox agents to remove toxins from the body quickly. Some need attention with leaky gut problems. Some need extensive kidney and liver support, some need to have help balancing the acid-alkaline conditons. All depending on individual condition. The assisting practitioner has to be able to judge that.

It cannot and should not be done by someone who has no knowledge of alternative modalities. Also, if abx are used during photon treatment, the patient fails. This happened during the testing for certification. Approx. 100 people were included in the trial, all passed except the person taking abx on the side as was discovered afterward.

Regarding the note about antibiotics being detrimental to successful treatment with Bionic 880,

What about those taking antimicrobial herbs - whether anti-spirochetal or anti-malarial (for babesia)?

I assume support herbs (such as for adrenal, liver, heart) would pose not problem, but I wonder if the stronger ones would ?
Dr. W. said there is little strange he has not seen yet with patients. But not exactly like yours. His move would be to test and to treat depending on the energetic testing. He absolutely acts depending on that, though always accompanied by common sense. He said even if he had encountered similar problems, your solution might be a totally different one than someone else's.

He does some exquisite biotensor testing and I started to learn it, because not only can I test myself, but also my husband. I am starting to use it daily - many medical doctors and other practitioners do.
A Klinghardt therapist does excellent work not with ART, but with the Biotensor. Have a look in literature. Dr. Klinghardt's mom a long time ago gave me a book about it - never did it until I met Dr. Woitzel. He ordered one for me while I was there and taught me the basics in a few minutes. Practice is the key

Re strong herbals, etc. I am pretty certain he would say to stop. Photons seem harmless, but you can put the house on fire with them. So no others needed, except for drainage support, organ support, following treatment. The toxins need to be removed as quickly as possible. That is where the good support person comes in - knowing what to do to ease the fallout with mop-up, etc. He uses homeopathic Phoenix Solidago spag, silybum spag, ursica arsenicum spag. I didn't see a pill or capsule of anything in the place any time.

The patient during treatment tapes the appropriate nosodes to his/her solar plexus. The light head is held onto ten different points on the body. It is not held over the nosodes directly. directly. Different nosodes for different infections. I am starting to tape all sorts of things on to treat it. Your can treat your own blood (a drop in a vial) for autoimmune corrections, etc. If you have the insect that got you, put it in a vial and add it next to the nosodes. Like treats like.

There is nothing difficult about the Bionic. It takes two minutes to figure out the settings. The important part is to have a support person help with the fallout - very toxic people need drainage remedies and organ support to help move the toxins out quickly. And of course someone who can do EAV, ART, or just a good simple muscle testing. I learned the Biotensor and love it. Takes a bit of practice. Dr. Woitzel uses one and he gave me my first lesson, to test myself and to test others. A great tool if learned and practiced right.
Anyone with an interest in healing Lyme should invest in this instrument. It can be used in many situations. I already used it a couple three times for weight reduction - it works like a charm - had to take in my waistbands twice while we were overthere --- even with the many bakeries in the neighborhood. I also love the hormone balancing protocol. If you learn energetically test, you can "build" your personal protocol for different applications. If I ever have another cold, I will treat it also (sticking my wet kleenex into a vial onto the body!!)
To: "purpleirises"
Subject: Bionic 880 patient, Dr W
Date: Saturday, July 26, 2008 4:47 PM

He finished his 6th treatment last week, getting his check in a month for any possible potencies of the Borrelia nosodes still testing. He had an extremely high number of the b bugs when he started.
He went to Dr. Woitzel listing his complaints (- basically Dr. W. is known as an MD with a total body approach) involving stomach, nerve transmission, stumbling, etc. He did not know about Borrelia and the other doctors he had seen over the years also told him "live with it".

He is already back to jogging. Had his amalgams removed three years ago, with little change. He did not follow it by a detox of metals.

He is doing absolutely great, loving to have a new life - something he had never thought possible - but still hoped for. I was in a hurry and he invited me to call again if I had more questions. I mentioned the concern everyone here has with money - his answer - what is it worth if you live n this darkness every day. He had to pay all out of pocket, because German insurance does not cover this as an alternative treatment. Only privately insured people get reimbursed for portions of it.

It was an absolute delight to talk with this man -who, as he repeated several times, had lost all hope to ever recover. He also said he is on the move from morning til evening while before the treatment he had to take naps to make it through the day. The best, he says, is waking up in the morning without the clouds hanging over him - the day is bright and full of opportunity again.
On this website you can click to download a PDF with a brochure on the Bionic 880. I found it interesting.
On the Bionic: My husband had his seventh Lyme treatment yesterday - he treated himself. It takes one hour, no reading, no watching horror news. He is steadily improving and looking great- better, and better and better. I have to look twice to make sure I am not seeing things!

All we do is mop-up agents, Solidago, etc. to support organs, as well as using the supporting protocol/frequencies of Bionic 880 for liver/organ support to clear toxins.
works like a charm - had to take in my waistbands twice while we were overthere --- even with the many bakeries in the neighborhood. I also love the hormone balancing protocol. If you learn energetically test, you can "build" your personal protocol for different applications. If I ever have another cold, I will treat it also (sticking my wet kleenex into a vial onto the body!!)

> I would be very interested to find what particular study you read
> says that there is a lack of control over tissue growth using IR
> stimulation?
> Actually, I have been reading extensively about the topic recently,
> including some of research papers of Prof. Popp and found something
> different which is called "battery effect" - it means regrowth is
> stimulated in damaged cells - healthy cells do not react!
> Propably we are quite different - what I found is that IR LED
> stimulation therapy is very safe and I did not found any report of
> adverse effects (within reasonable setting of course).
> Me, I decided to not wait any more! I am an electronic engineer (as
> one of my many identities:- ) and after studying all what is
> I decided to built a copy of Bionic 880 instrument myself. I should
> be ready in a couple of weeks. Then, I will do myself autonosodes
> try to duplicate dr. Weizel protocol. If it does not work I always
> have an option to visit him (few hours drive from my place:-).
> This is my way - others might beware. Doctors always told me to
> beware but I listen to them no longer. They told me many things to
> beware - a bit more than year ago I was at the bottom of The Hell,
> bedridden, with severe dysautonomia, severe pains, Alzhaimer like
> brain and other similar pleasures;-) . Today, I am pretty functional
> and I have just returned from 2 hours mountain bike ride:-) I have
> still a waaaay to go but believe me, waiting for so
called "science"
> (especially medical science) to confirm something is "safe"
> or "proven" - it is not a way for me:-)>
> Pawel
> -------------------------------------------------------
Frequent Contributor
Member # 259

Since there has been so much talk about other light instruments, and for our own satisfaction I have been able to get some answers to some of the questions from the manufacturer and doctors/practitioners who are using the tool in their practice.

I found, as I had posted previously that to compare a tool like the Elixa or similar instruments with the Bionic 880 is like comparing apples with pears.

In comparison, the Bionic output and the frequencies are directed at cell stimulation, also skin problems, burns, allergies (skin), hormone regulation, etc. Besides the wave lengths and the special frequencies, waveforms play a major role. The Bionic frequencies do not lean toward Nogier frequencies, rather they developed their own puls-frequencies over a period of some 15 years, based on many healing experiences.

Dr. Woitzel agrees that with the Elixa and similar tools one cannot eradicate Borrelia/Lyme successfully. The Bionic 880 is not dependent on penetration. The output is considerably higher because it deals with incoherrent light. Elixa delivers I believe 228 mw; Bionic 880 has an output of 1600 mw. That is a major difference.

The Elixa and similar instruments can be helpful in home use. For severe illnesses, however, such as Lyme, no doctor is known to use it in practice as the Bionic is used. The last doctor I talked with confirmed that to be successful with Lyme, the core piece is the Bionic 880. Another M.D. I talked to cured his own Borreliosis with the Bionic.

I still do not have any idea why the instrument that we bought could not make it through in the mail. No one has an explanation, other than somebody blamed somebody blamed somebody and the package moved from one spot to the next, until I got tired of it.

From the owner of a Bionic in Canada, I heard that her instrument got through without any problems. She had it sent by freight, a couple of years ago. Mail is easier I think and it is such a light-weight instrument. I think with the solid case it weighs some ten pounds.


Thanks for the info, GiGi!

There is another product that you can buy here called the Lumen 90. It's more expensive than the LightWorks but it's much stronger.

I've seen them on the internet for about $795. The have the Nogier frequencies - so it's not proprietary in that respect.

Marnie posted the info & some people compared it with the LightWorks.

Here's the specifications-

50 Infrared LEDs @880nm wavelength, Approximately 100 mw output each diode

40 Visible Red LEDs @650nm wavelength, Approximately 50mw output each diode, Totally 5200 mw (approximately) output

Optical power - [email protected] 880 nm and 2000 mc (millicandles) @ 650 nm.

Duty cycle - 50% yields 100mW (milliWatts) per Infrared LED.

Power density- Aapprox. 100mW per square cm.

Dosage rate, Lumen 90/264 - 1 joule/square cm in 16 seconds.
I'm not sure how much light the body can absorb at one time. It may just be that you need to use a lower powered device for longer?

I think all of these things are very beneficial. Some of us just don't have the money to spend on expensive devices, though. I think there are benefits to be gained for using infrared light for healing.

I have seen that the frequencies that the Bionic 880 uses are different from the Nogier frequencies. I would be curious to see how the Bionic 880 company arrived at the frequency settings that they use.
There are many other devices in use by the medical profession that use light as a basis for healing. If you search the internet, you will see them. There are many devices are being marketed, though. Some use lasers, some LEDs & some both. The Bionic 880 is only one of them. sparkle7

Manufacturer/Bionic 880 told me they would take a few more months to gain the FDA and UL approval

Here is the list of therapists, only licenced doctors and practitioners own it, who utilize the Bionic 880. It is probably not up-to-date. They are having seminars in different companies; last week in Holland and some other place.

I hesitate to put this list here because I know Lymies and their relentless pursuit. Please if you do call any of these people, do it in a polite and respectful way.
I would highly recommend that the ones who cannot "mind their manners" stay away from contacting any of these people. We all know who these people are and you yourselves do know also. We all know how we are looked upon by the practitioner community and people in general - right or wrong, let's not make a mess of all. Not all of these therapists are using the Bionic 880 or forerunner for Lyme --- . Lyme is not on everybody's mind! I have copies of various letters by doctors and patients telling of their various exp[eriences going back into the early nineties.
Lyme is only in the forefront in our minds - not with every single therapist using photons in practice. The instrument has been used for so many different problems, I am guessing --- some of them involved unrecognized Lyme. Who knows. It will be used for many other purposes in the future - I can tell that myself by the manner I am starting to use ours.
Subject: Bionic 880 practitioners list, De

Biermann, Sonja Theresienstr. 17 01097 Dresden 0351-4220501 Dr. med
Gruhl, Ursula Friedhofstr. 3 01189 Dresden-Gittersee 0351-4010943 HP
Hellwing, Peter Freiberger Str. 17 01683 Nossen 035242-64120 Dr.
Mittelbach Jens Httenmhlenstr. 3 09429 Wolkenstein 037369-87171 HP
Sason, Petra Paul-Lincke-Ufer 7 D. 10999 Berlin 030-69566802 HP
Heinrich, Ralf Schlostr. 26 12163 Berlin 030-79016533
Bock, Donatus Ostpreuendamm 151 A 12207 Berlin 030-77395000 HP
Ballschuh,Andrea Freiheit 12 12555 Berlin-Kpenick 030-65488925 HP
Jaster, Dorothea Parkallee 34 14532 Stansdorf 03329-62228 HP
Stber, Gisela Kirchstr. 2 16278 Angermnde 033334-70855 Dr. med.
Jaehn, Detlev Zricher Str. 59 16341 Panketal-Zep. 030-9446242 HP
Kunzig, Klaus-Peter Heidberg 11 17398 Ducherow 039726-20269 HP
Gey/Heitmann Paulstr. 48-55 18055 Rostock 0381-3644754 HP
Wiese, Detlev Eichenweg 21 18059 Sildenow 0381-4003431 HP
Ursinus, Lothar Frahmredder 14 22393 Hamburg 040-600112280 HP
Meiner, Kurt Tangstetter-Landstr. 77 22415 Hamburg 040-5203094/5 Dr.
Mller, Christian Tangstetter-Landstr. 77 22415 Hamburg 040-5203094/5 Dr.
Kunold, Marlene E. Torstr. 40 22525 Hamburg 040-85414245 HP
Akerele, Caroline Jerrsbecker Str. 5 22941 Bargteheide 04532-8059 Dr.
Ru, Gerd Sderstr. 47 23769 Burg a. Fehmarn 04371-87864 Dr
Trampe, Ralf Papenstr. 2e 23966 Wismar 03841-384583 Phys.T.
Patzke, Theresa Fallreep 12 24159 Kiel 0431-300 46 00 HP
Birn, Heilwig Hauptstr. 24 24357 Fleckeby 04354-1662 HP
Heirich, Claus-Peter Schrammoor 30 24799 Friedrichsholm 04339-573 HP
Bode-Wilbers, Magdalena Schulstr. 88 b 26180 Rastede 04402-989680 HP
Menke, Wilfried Jrnweg 4/b 26215 Wiefelstede 0441-9620450 HP
Strenge, Claus-A. Ubbo-Emmiusstr. 4 26603 Aurich 04941-68100 Dr.
Kania, Horst Eisenbahnstr. 9 27580 Bremerhaven 0471-86331 HP
Vulpescu, Dang Parkstr. 11 27580 Bremerhaven 0471-82460 Dr. med.
Quick-Grottke, Almut Kthe-Kollwitz-Str. 9 28717 Bremen 0421-633581 HP
Sievers, Kerstin Goldener Winkel 14 30159 Hannover 0511-3538862 P.B.
Schenkbier, Barbara Erich-Klausener-Str. 7 31139 Hildesheim 05121-208690 HP
Knemann, Anette Obershagener Str. 121 31311 Uetze-Hnigsen 05147-720627 HP
Haeussler, Andreas Hangbaumstr. 2 32257 Bnde 05223-157747 HP
Hartmeier, Torsten Osnabrcker Str. 57 32312 Lbbecke 05741-230280 HP
Bischoff, Wolfgang Rosenweg 3 32479 Hille-Rothen. 05734-2175 HP
Mller, Heinrich A. Bessinger Str. 10 32547 Bad Oeynhausen 05731-27138 Dr. Ing.
Prinz, Heinz-Jrgen Lilienweg 6 33397 Rietberg 05244-8262 HP
Winterbur, Walter Erlentruper Weg 56 33604 Bielefeld 0521-290708 HP
Hoebel,Renate Donnerbrink 19 33619 Bielefeld HP
Wende, Isolde Schultenstr. 14 33790 Halle (Westf.) 05201-4110 HP
Stiebritz, Elisabeth Am Markt 1 33803 Steinhagen 05204-800612 HP
Tiede, Katja Schlostr. 26 33824 Bielefeld 05203-7156 rztin
Hauenstein G. Triftweg 9c 34125 Kassel 0561-875890
Pfeiffer-Bhme, D. Neue Siedlung 6 35080 Bad Endbach-Htte 02776-911918 HP
Nigmann, Ulfrike Obertor 8 35083 Welter 06423-6253 HP
Ringleb, Ulrike Rdchen 20 35625 Httenberg-Vollnkirchen 06447-8860350 HP
Welsch, Silvia Buttlarstr. 18 36284 Hohenroda-Mansbach 06676-317
Armbrecht, Sabine Am Goldbach 6 37354 Eidorf 05522-999930 Dr.
Weishaupt, Werner Schlopweg 14 38259 Salzgitter 05341-392715 HP-Psy.
Seelnder, Andrea Weferlinger Str. 11 38459 Saalsdorf 05358-984994 HP
Redlich, Dieter Oberstr. 43 39288 Burg 03921-3192 Dr.
Redlich, Elke Breitestr. 19 39291 Schermen 03921-985769 Dr.
Hoffmann, Cornelia Rather Broich 25 40472 Dsseldorf 0211-653599 HP
Bessing, Wolf-Dieter Nord Carree 9 40477 Dsseldorf 021-1645678 Dr.
Feistner, Johannes Oberkasseler Str. 99 40545 Dsseldorf 0211-552572 HP
Hentschel, Jrg Benderstr. 93 40625 Dsseldorf 0211-2097947 HP
Hentschel, Martina Sandtrger Weg 24a 40626 0211-278108
Ulrich, Bernd NecklenbroicherStr. 71 40667 Meerbusch-Bd. 02132-3458 A
Krause, Ellen Wallstr. 10 40878 Ratingen 02102-845577 Dr.
Sommermeier,Sigrid Im Lhrchen 3 40878 Ratingen 02102-26884 HP
Rose, Wolfgang Andreasstr. 63 41749 Viersen 02162-80788 HP
Eschweiler, Stefan Sdprommenade 26 41812 Erkelenz 02431-4766 Dr. med.
Otoo, Emmanuel Schuchardstr. 28 42275 Wuppertal 0202-558957
Mengeler, Siegfried Bahnhofstr. 5 42551 Velbert 02051-207780 HP
Rosse, Silvia Bahnhofstr.15 44623 Herne 02323-146699 HP
Fringes, Kerstin Am Schamberge 50 44879 Bochum 0234-4769578 HP
Jacob,M. +Grabosch, R. Heidhauser Str.52 45239 Essen 0201-177 55 44 HP
Langova, Alice Ltzowstr. 96 46147 Oberhausen 0208-687 888 Dr.
Heiderich-Niesen, M Blumenstr. 8 46236 Bottrop 02041-778404 HP
Lauber, Petra Glck-Auf-Str. 301 46284 Dorsten 0173-2528925 G.T.
Maats, J.P. Adenauerallee 72 46399 Bocholt 02871-7655 HP
Alan M. zel Ferdinandstr. 9 47228 Duisburg 02065-839211 HP
Lamers, Theo Dechantshof 46 47551 Bedburg-Hau 02821-973860 HP
Brass, Margret Klner Str. 526 47807 Krefeld-Fi. 02151-308130 HP
Miserre, Michael Kappenberger Damm 243 48151 Mnster 0251-1623676 Dr. med.
Stasing, Elke Hammer Str. 30 48153 Mnster 0251-5347113 HP
Schwaer, Gerda Ginsterweg 1 48155 Mnster 0251-3111053 HP, HAT
Lenze, Bettina Gremmendorfer Weg 89 48167 Mnster 0251-2705757 HP
Engeln, Gabriele Bursibantstr, 3 48429 Rheine 05971-84882 HP
Mammes, Heinrich Wettringer Str. 4 48585 Neuenkirchen 05973-3332 Dr
Deiters, Brigitte-P Amelandsbrckenweg 17 48599 Gronau 02565-3432 HP
Timbul, K. Nahner Kirchplatz 1 49082 Osnabrck 0541-55050 Dr.
Meyer, Ingrid Hogenbgen 60 49429 Visbek 04445-1574 HP
Trame, Sylvia Robert-Bosch-Ring 21 49584 Frstenau 05901-958822 Psy.T.
Frhlich, Ursula Krankenhausstr. 38-40 50243 Hrth-Hermlheim 02233-613560 HP
Weber, Peter Riehler Platz 5 50668 Kln 0221-732102 HP
Soete, Wilfried Rotkehlchenweg 1 50829 Kln 0221-9589913 HP
Eren, Sema Drener-Str. 199 50931 Kln 0221-401051 Dr. med.
Alt, Helga u. Udo Am Beethovenpark 28 50935 Kln 0221-468 00 66 Dres.
Jakubaschk, Rainer Wupperstr. 4 51371 Leverkusen 0214-21298 HP
Hentrup, Ulrike Kalkstr. 144 51377 Leverkusen 0214-76970 HP
Rau, Eckard Graf-Gahlen-Platz 7 51377 Leverkusen 0214-51819 Dr.
Struve, Christine Stixchestr. 7 51377 Leverkusen 0214-77333 HP
Seeh, Ji Sun Hummelsbroich 16 51427 Bergisch-Gladbach 02204-961996 HP
Kiesgen, Helga Im Rothland 2 51570 Windeck 02292-4620 HP
Mthe, Layla Holzgraben 13-15 52062 Aachen 0241-38168 Dr.
Rometsch, Michael Alexand. v. Humboldt-Str. 17 53604 Bad Honnef 02224-919080 HP
Ziemer, Ingeborg Am Pleiser Weg 40 53757 Sankt Augustin 02241-335422 HP
Rodewald, Monika Pacellistr. 18 53840 Troisdorf 02241-973253 HP
Mller, Peter Brunnenzentrum 54338 Schweich 06502-7233 HP
Henn, Ursula Ellernbeck 10 54669 Bollendorf 06526-285 HP
Bolland, Axel Felkestr. 134 55566 Bad Sobernheim 06751-9339117 Dr. med.
Best, Angelika Hohenzollernstr. 130 56068 Koblenz 0261-9143066 HP
Salzer, Carmen Am Schafbach 2 56457 Hergenroth 02663-1341 Phys.T.
Wagner, Ursula Drnerstr. 13 56479 Elsoff 07664-993062 HP
Laux, Jeanette Eifel-Maar-Park 10 56766 Ulmen 02676-9512212 HP
v.d. Linden, Annelie Ltkeheide 75 59368 Werne 02389-9251670 HP
Hermann-Migowski, Siegl. Hertingerstr. 78 59423 Unna 02303-331717 HP
Schmidt-Jung, Elisabeth Steinerstr. 4 59457 Werl 02922-81435 HP
Spichalsky, Rainer Feuerbacherstr. 72 61169 Friedberg-Feuerbach 06031-3631
Ehrlinspiel, Dagmar Lindenstr. 4 61231 Bad Nauheim 06032-6100
Edinger, Enrico Frankfurter Str. 12-14 61462 Knigstein/Taunus 06174-2031-0 Dr.
Marx, Kerstin Sudetenstr. 13 63165 Mhlheim am Main 06108-825385 H.T.
Tischberger-Friedrichs, B Frankfurter Str. 124-126 63263 Neu-Isenburg 06102-733444 Dr. med.
Knlll, Beate Traminer Str. 19 63322 Rdermark 06074-68160 Dr.
Weber, Rudolph Nrnberger Str. 2A 63450 Hanau 06181-251120 Dr. med.
Dietz, Thorsten Gerbersgipfel 6 63584 Grndau 06051-888163 H.T.
Buchinger-Wohlgemut, K. Eberstdter Str. 15 64319 Pfungstadt 06157-989738 HP
Genius, Anneliese Pulvermhlenweg 3 64367 Mhltal 06151-148270 HP
Lvenich + Kielmayer Darmstdter Str. 18a 64521 Gro-Gerau 06152-2110 HP
Emig, Reinhard Nibelungenstr. 70 64653 Lorsch 06251-59701 H.T.
Hanusch, Karl-Heinz Ingwerweg 8a 65191 Wiesbaden 0611-561323 HP
Burgard, Harald Provinzialstr. 59 66787 Wadgassen 06834-409650 Dr. med.
Himmighfer, Eva Breslauerstr. 8 67105 Schifferstadt 06235-9573280 HP
Aschhoff, Burkhard Klosterstr. 179 67476 Edenkoben/Weinstrae 06323-802-0 Dr. med.
Faller, Thorsten Poststr. 4a 67480 Ebenkoben 06323-7040586 HP
Lamprecht, Joachim Wilh.-Leuschner-Str. 18 67547 Worms 06241-6861 Dr.
Blaser, Stefan Mhlstr. 6 67551 Worms 06247-9911271 HP
Berger, Rainer Alzeyerstr. 89 67592 Flrsheim-Dalsh. 06243-99942 Dr.
Noco, Renee Seckenheimer Hauptstr. 101 68239 Mannheim 0621-4802539-0 HP
Mandel, Horst Prof. J.-S.-Bach-Str. 5 68519 Viernheim 06204-4101 HP
Stricker, Bernhard Obere Hauptstr. 7 68766 Hockenheim 06205-289257 HP
Hengst-Eitner 68782 Brhl 06202-702851 HP
Kaesmacher, Ralf Weinstr. 33 69231 Rauenberg
Stein, Hotense Birkenweg 4 69469 Weinheim 06201-13833 HP
Krick, Lilly Rathauspl. 2 69509 Mrlenbach 06209-713161 HP
Menzel, Werner H. Sophie-Tschorn-Str. 47 70374 Stuttgart 0711-533837 HP
Ehrmann, Sabine Tannencker Str. 33 70469 Stuttgart 0711-858898 HP
Wehrmann, Wolfgang Neckargasse 4 72070 Tbingen 07031-24221 HP
Krebs, Harald, Kerstin Langestr. 14 72202 Nagold 07452-66644 HP
Meyer, Michael Steinhofener Str. 16 72406 Bisingen 07476-914178 Dr
Haug, Friedbert Hechinger-Str. 57 72461 Albstadt-Tailfingen 07432-220919 HP
Besch, Susanne Sonnenhalde 61 72532 Gomandingen 07385-965008 HP
Glaab, Norbert Mrikestr. 30 72667 Schaitdorf 07127-925923 HT
Weil, Jutta Ringstr. 6 73271 Holzmaden 07023-73123 HP
Akermann, Immanuel Wilhelmstr. 45 73525 Schwb.-Gmnd 07171-61355 HP
Wachter Erich-K. Kramstr. 4 74072 Heilbronn 07131- 84244 HP
Dahl, Tobias Bismarckstr. 39 74074 Heilbronn 07131-178024
Barth, Hans hringerstr. 40 74545 Michelfeld-Gnadental 0791-6914 HP
Deuscher, J. Friedhofstr. 6/1 75045 Walzbachtal-J 07203-8370 Dr.d
Fischer, Rudolf Blumenheckstr. 25 75177 Pforzheim 07231-51547 HP
IBT Dr. med. Woitzel Hohenzollernstr. 81 75177 Pforzheim 07231-313533 Dr.
Flik, Silvia Heuweg 4 75382 Althengstett 07051-70635 HP
Brugger-Schle Kriegstr. 27 76133 Karlsruhe 0721-33315 HP
Hrrner, Bernd Erzberger Str. 131 76149 Karlsruhe 0721-9712830 HP
Khatab, Emad Scheffelstr. 17/1 76307 Karlsbad 07202-942688 H.T.
Stapelberg, Romy Buchenweg 17 a 76337 Waldbronn 07243-67857 HP
Hermann, K.-H. Sdring 4 76689 Karlsdorf-Neuthard 07251-4662 HP
Richter, Michaela Nrdliche Wallstr. 7 76831 Billigheim 06349-927809 HP
Hohl, Thomas Am Park 21 77736 Zell a. H. 07835-8732 G.T.
Geibel, Christoph Geschw.-Scholl-Str. 50 78166 Donaueschingen 0771-1588777 Dr.
Jung, Petra Stemmerstr. 11 78266 Bsingen 07734-97284 Dr.
Brendle, Wilfried Walchner-Str. 16 78315 Radolfzell 07732-971550 HP
Lusser, Andrea Steinackerstr. 8 79117 Freiburg 0761-65513 Dr.
Gertzen, Wolf-Peter Kirchstr. 17 79286 Glottertal 07684-909168 H.T.
Heinzler, Andrea Schulstr. 71/1 79585 Steinen-Hllstein 07627-970088 HP
Sellin, Hans-Gnter Talstr. 11 79682 Todtmoos 07674-920474 HP
Mller, U. J. Safferlinstr. 2 80634 Mnchen 089-169170 HP
Peter, Lutz Dom-Pedro-Str. 49 80637 Mnchen 089-151163 Dr.
Huber, Margot Baldurstr. 75 80638 Mnchen 089-155394 HP
Heintz, Hanne Stberlstr. 59 80686 Mnchen 089-58987855 HP
Spacic-Zaninovics Reithmannstr. 8 80686 Mnchen 089-573085 HP
Robitzsch, Tatjana Ammerlandstr. 6a 81476 Mnchen 089-75999407 HP
Samatis/Blank/Mller Lilienthalstr. 15 82008 Unterhaching 089-66598645 HP
Zwerger, Berthold Lazarettstr. 6 82467 Garmisch-P 08821-949793 HP
Bilz, Hannelore Sonnenstr. 6 83128 Halfing 08055-904897 Dr. med.
Schnach, Artur Salzburger Str. 15 83435 Bad Reichenhall 08651-5691 Dr. med.
Mann, Volker Rampoldstetten 20 84160 Frontenhausen 08732-930202 Dr. med.
Neumair, Elisabeth Schulstr. 23 85276 Pfaffenhofen 08441-879793 HP
Nauderer, Margret Karl-von-Freyberg-Str. 25 85305 Jetzendorf 08137-808345 HP
Mann, Wolfgang Karolinenstr. 21 86150 Augsburg 0821-158629 Dr. med.
Taschke-Kohler, Lia Prof.-Messerschmitt-Str. 17a 86159 Augsburg 0821-5896699 HP
Richter, Erna Am Hopfengarten 43 86316 Friedberg 0821-602404 HP
Kahlfu, Sandra Weidenweg 9 86609 Donauwrth 0906-9999520 HP
Kraus, Magdalena An der Bahn 1 86647 Buttenwiesen-Hinterried 08274-284 HP
Hofner, Christa Keltenweg 38 86842 Trkheim 08245-2520 HP
Scheinberger, Josef Ellighofer Str. 16 1/2 86944 Unterdiessen 08243-993370 E.T.
Hbner, Wolfgang Sportplatzweg 1 b 87471 Durach 0831-5409924 HP
Weiger, Eberhard Hirschzeller Str. 9A 87665 Frankenried 08341-876566 Dr.
Tauch-Striedacher, M. Holzhusern 13 88069 Tettnang 07542-6027 HP
Maier, Angelika Platzgasse 10 89233 Neu-Ulm (Pfuhl) 0731-2076771 HP
Fritsch-Mohr, Kerstin Hauptstr. 28 89352 Ellzee 0162 4347477 HP
Mohr-Fritsche, Kerstin Hauptstr. 28 89352 Ellzee 0162-4347477 HP
Kraus, Thomas Veillodterstr. 33 90409 Nrnberg 0911-551932 Dr. med.
Dennerlein, Angelika Eschenauer Hauptstr. 21 90542 Eckental 09126-288532 Dr.
Zschiesche, Thomas Nrnberger Str. 1 91052 Erlangen 09131-28590 Dr.dent
Lottring, Hans Wilhelm-Albrecht-Str. 146 91126 Schwabach 09122-3102 HP
Tjoa, Sienho Kirchenstr. 15 91735 Muhr am See 09831-2824 Dr.
Frhwirt, Herbert Hauptstr. 9 91757 Treuchtlingen 09142-5199 HP
Tschernich, Angelika Zum Glaser 13 92284 Witzlhof-Poppenricht 09626-64975 HP
Eichhorn, Renate Im Gewerbepark C 15 93059 Regensburg 0941-4613032 Dr. med.
Beck, Nadeschda Kreuzsteinstr. 30 95028 Hof 09281-889596 Dr.
Scholz, Rosemarie ngerlein 34 a 95326 Kulmbach 09221-2593 HP
Dauer, Petra Weiheweg 14 96199 Zapfendorf 09547-8709871 HP
Bayer, Jaroslava Dipl. Ing. Andreas Bauer-Str. 4 96317 Kronach 09261-51621 G.T.
Hauck, Brigitte Jakobsberg 2 96332 Rothenkirchen 09265-276 G.T.
Jennrich, Peter Marienstr. 1 97070 Wrzburg 0931-3292207 A
Olshausen, Barbara Ludwigstr. 22-II 97070 Wrzburg 0931-58840 HP
Meisenzahl, Mechthild Sr. Edelstr. 8 97074 Wrzburg 0931-74320 HP
Brns, Karl-Detlev Brcknerstr. 4 97080 Wrzburg 0931-200410 Dr. med.
Kinzlmeier-Setz Ritterstr. 11-17 97318 Kitzingen 09321-922128 Dr.
Sonntag, Michael Marktstr. 24 97450 Arnstein 09363-900900 Dr. med.
Pfeufer, Petra Obertorstr. 13 97737 Gemnden 0935190104 HP
Herff, Andre Am Kohlersberg 7 97828 Marktheidenfeld-Michelr. 09394-9940300
Neumann, Claudia Ludwigstr. 9 97828 Marktheidenfeld 09391-810198 HP
Rieger, Petra Birkenstr. 12 97892 Kreuzwertheim 09342-918592 Ps
Thiermann, Martha Dopschstr. 20/7/1/3 A-1210 Wien 0043-12564097 HP
Sonnleithner, Herta Neustiftgasse 7 A-3140 Pottenbrunn 0043-274242597 HP
Adlhard, Manfred Oberseibersdorf 13 A-5274 Burgkirchen 0043-772267021 HP
Eichbaum, Hanne Mariatal 4 A-6233 Kramsach 0043-5337-66252 HP
Lebensfreude, Zech Daniel Mittelule 28 a A-6714 Nziders 0043-5562684444 G.T.
Zudrell, Jrgen Kristberg 240 A-6780 Silbertal/Montafon 0043-5556-72290 H.T.
Lintner, Walter Nachbauerstr. 13 A-6850 Dornbirn 0043-5572231550 Dr.
Schwarzmann, Barbara Ach 690 A-6870 Bezau 0043-6642319006 H.T.
Horner, Otto-Michael Langefelder Str. 12 A-8793 Trofaiach 0043-38474042 Mag.
Kstenberger, Birgit Waldorfstr. 38 A-9020 Klagenfurt 0043-6645621260 T
Ratheiser, Bernhard Mllnern 19 A-9132 Gallizien 0034-4237-27760 E.T.
Schneider, Gunter 15 Wyong Street AUS 2575 Hill Top NWS Australia +001161-24889 9990 HP
Laube, Cecil Rotmatt 25 CH.5626 Hermetschwil 0041-566312719 HT
Langenegger, Ingeborg Liebrtistr. 31 /12 CH-4303 Kaiseraugst 0041-6181 5214 T
Mummenthaler Hauptstr. 40 CH-4702 Oensingen 0041-623963079 HP
Kunz, Monika Fahrweidstr. 23 CH-5630 Muri 0041-566709366 HT
Perez, Juan SkyTek Friedbergstr. 48 CH-6004 Luzern 0041-414220815 G.T.
Luthiger, Beatrice Lindenbergstr. 10 A CH-6331 Hynenberg 0041-417803722 G.T.
Zurfluh, Bernhard Hellgasse 3 CH-6460 Altdorf 0041-418713217 H.T.
Tobisch, Walter Ringelweg 13 CH-7015 Tamins 0041-816412478 Dr.
Eugster, Martin AG Bahnhofstr. 10 CH-8304 Wallisellen 0041-18106564 H.T.
Sessler, Erken 18618 Whitfield Rd. CND Summerland BC, Canada 001-2504949629 G.T.
Humlegaarden, Klinik Ny Strandvej 11 DK-3050 Humlebaek +45-491-32465
Ziesse, Herbert Calle S`Estanyol s/n, Hotel Hip. E-07560 Cala Millor, Mallorca HP
Pinto, Roberto Casas C/Juan Diaz Porlier 16-6 derecha E-15009 La Coruna, Spain 0034-606 414891 HP
Fernandez, Ricardo C/Ronda de la Muralla n5, 2d, c.p. E-27001 Lugo , Espana 0034-982-242328 Dr. med.
Bachsteffel, J. Avenida Jose Antonia 14 E-38750 El Paso, La Palma 0034 922497129 Dr.
Lallemand, F 1 c. rue de la Foret F-67240 Schirrhain 0333-885331215 Dr.
Hemmerling, Rudolf Via Feldgatterweg 2 I-39011 Lana 0039-0473550288 Dr.dent.
Barth, Wolf Haus 47 a L-9744 Deiffelt 00352-26914392 Dr.
Nazlikul, Hseyin Tesviye Cad No. 166 Kat 3 TR Nisantasi-Istanbul 0090-212.219.1912 Dr.
Grsel, Mehmet Mnir Nurettin Selcuk Cad. Aripak TR-20-12 Kalamis-Istanbul 0090-532-275-78 14 Dr. med.
Keyifli Isler Turizim Gida Mezaracik Cikmazi Sok No.8 TR-34345 Istanbul-Besiktas 0090-2122872036
The Life Co. Noramin Is Merkezi Kat.3 No.302 TR-34398 Maslak, Istanbul +90-212-286 74 60 med. Institut
Karabulut, Rana Ferit Pasa cd. No. 68/2 TR-42040 Anit Alan, KONYA +90-332 321 56 66 Dr. med.

Abkrzungen: Dr. = Dr. med rztin/Arzt = o. A alle Fachbereiche, HP = Heilpraktiker(in), HT= Hypno-Therapeut GT=Gesundheitstherapeut
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
I have been off abx for 7 days now and no relapse only getting better, since I used the self-made LED array.

This is my biggest victory over the LD, and my heart is overflown with joyfulness, and I would like to share the happiness.

Before I couldn't get off abx for more than two days; seven days off abx, I would become very sick.

Since I fell ill two and a half year ago, this is the first time I feel so optimistic towards my health that I would be completely recovered soon ; I have seen the light at the end of the tunnel.

I feel that the near infrared lights (from 600nm to 1000nm)would play a major role in fighting chronic diseases like Lyme disease.

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Hiker, I don't know. I emailed the doctor to set up an appt. and have asked how long we need to stay. We are not going to cut the trip short.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Dave6002, it may go as high as 1300nm. The light helmet used for Alzheimers is at 1072. 1072 seems to be agressive to both viruses and bacteria for some reason. More studies are needed, but for herpes symplex cold sores 1072nm heals two times faster then the normally prescribed Alclovir. I put the clinical studies in sparkle's post on light (good idea sparkle!).

It good to have a post specifically on light because this is so new and the studies are so new it is difficult to determine which wave length does what. 880nm is very important for the immune system. 1072 might be important for inflammation and might also directly kill pathogens (1268nm may also be a pathogen killer).
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
Bob, I have read the information, very interesting, you provided.

Does 1072nm penetrate better, so it's used in a light helmet to cure Alzheimers?

Scientists found that the NIR lights with wavelength that overlap with the absorption spectrum of cytochrome C oxidase have better effects on cells.

So the present prevalent hypothesis is that NIR lights increase the ATP production of mitochodria, which are the power plants of the cells, and play an critical role in regulating cell death.

With the increase of ATP, mitochodria may deliver survival signal rather death signal, so the cell may be more energetic and has longer life span.

In the case of healing herpes symplex cold sores, it's unclear if 1072nm kill the viruses directly, or by strengthen the immune cells.

It's known some high energy EMF like UV can kill bacteria and viruses directly, it would be very interesting to explore if the NIR lights (and what wavelength) can directly kill pathogens but spare the host cells.

Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :

Throughout my entire treatment, the doctor has had to perform a balancing act between killing and detoxing. A little killing followed by alot of detoxing.

It took about 5 mths to get me back up and operational. I have been running on all cylinders pretty much since then with minor setbacks here and there. I am not well yet. It is a long, long process but I fully expect to be completely healed.

However, I have to be very wary of any and everything. If I rushed over and did the Bionic 880 like others are doing, I would most certainly come back in worse shape. In fact, the more effective the 880 is at killing, the worse shape I would be in.

So, when I hear that people feel worse, I just nod my head and think "Yep. I can relate to that feeling." And, to me, it confirms the effectiveness of the treatment. Just like when you take an abx and it makes you feel worse.

Here is some really good information that applies to all of us. You can pull every post I have ever made and consistently you will hear me say 2 things: 1-that didn't work for me, it made me feel worse 2-Change of diet made the most significant improvement to date.

Now, diet hasn't made the only improvement. How nice it would be if that were so. Everything the doctors have done for me has advanced my healing. Just diet was the first and most significant.

Read this research and you will see why.

This one is probably pertinent to many of you

Posted by leadmare (Member # 15431) on :
I don't post much, as I'm not the brightest bulb in the pack folks. But, I find this light stuff quite interesting.

Several years ago we started using "Bio-scan lights" on our horses with injuries. The expected healing time on some of these horses was shortened from months to days.

Also, horses with long standing issues (considered permanent) were cleared up and they became happy, useful animals again.

Seeing success with the horses this way has this making some sense and bringing some hope to me.

Here's a link for what we use:

I may just have to head to out back the barn [Big Grin]
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Luvs, that is what I have thought, too, that some people who come back worse may really be Lyme free but toxic.

The Bionic 880 assists with detox, but I can see how it might take longer to clear out all the toxins.

I am with you on diet .... I managed my Lyme Disease undiagnosed with diet and supplements for literally years. In fact, my friends all wondered how I had so much more energy than they did. Diet is critical (and I don't just mean sugar free, I actually am not sugar free).

Leadmare, funny, my son is fascinated with my Lightworks and found that site about Bioscan. Thanks for posting that. With Lyme, many of us are not the brightest bulb in the pack, please keep posting. We'd love to hear some of the specifics about your horses. I have read a lot about how these lights are used on animals ... as with Lyme, it seems the vets are ahead of the curve on this.

Everyone I've been thinking about the light that kills vs. the light that builds the immune system. Do you think that the light that builds the immune system to do it's own killing might actually be why the light works fast? Do you think that maybe doing the killing with the light might actually make it more similar to abx and not only not get it all but take longer to do it?
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
From what I have been experiencing is that he light reduces the pain, causes a die off - then it detoxifies...

I was mostly using the 880 nm side. I was having intestinal pain & alot of shoulder pain, yesterday - so, I decided to try the 660 nm side.

I feel better today. I still have some intestinal pain but it's less & my shoulder pain is less.

I don't know how the light is working on a technical level.

For some reason I was really compelled to use the 880 side but the 660 side has benefits, too.

It would be interesting to see how all of these different wavelengths effect the body as we get more studies. Maybe it's good to use a range of wavelengths rather than focusing on only 880 nm?
Posted by leadmare (Member # 15431) on :
So, I'm looking into the Bio-scan, because I have it available, but wasn't sure on the nanometers.

I did find the patent.

It appears that some wave length between these 632
and 904 nanometers, is closer to the optimum frequency of the cells of the body tissue and thus the broadband infrared diode which operates rather broad band, centered at about 880 nanometers, is found extremely useful.

I'm with Luvs2ride in the detox dept. I don't do so well there. That is what has stopped me from trying the Boi-scan so far.

They do make a human version.

We have used it mostly on deep tissue, tendon, ligament and muscle injuries/issues on the horses.

My friend did use it on her sprained ankle and it helped her [confused]

I see my Doc on Monday and will ask about using it.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Info on Bioscan.
Posted by Nobody (Member # 16041) on :
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Sparkle, Every other day I use the light works at 660nm and move it along the large intestines. I start at the appendix 4 minutes there. Then 3 minutes about three more spots moving from appendix to rib cage. Then 4 spots vertically moving from rib cage to rib cage. Then 3 more spots moving downard. Then the small intestine about 4 minutes for 3 spots to the left and righ and including the belly button. Finally the groin. Last I position it on my back just under the rib cage just to the side of the spine again at 660nm for 4 minutes to heal and help the kidneys eliminate toxins.

I now believe this is very helpful for those who have compromised their intestines with ABX. I also think it helps the good bacteria gain a better foothold on the intestinal walls. I'm now able to eat anything without repercussions.

Also while your doing this, It might be a good idea to put some aloe in water for a morning drink.

BTW, I think this can be done every day if you have the time.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Anyone know the effect of the light on cytokines?

My LLMD thinks that when I use something like transfer factor to stimulate my immune system it may be the cytokines that make me feel so bad.

He has me on fewer immune stimulating herbs.

So, I was wondering where these lights fit in.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Six the 660nm reduces pain the 880nm does not. If you are having pain target the paddle directly on top of it. Hold it there for 8 minutes in the morning and 8 minutes in the evening. See if any reduction occurs. I've had success with tennis elbow doing just that.

Hopefully that helps
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Six I found the following link specific to 660 and 684nm as a way to reduce inflammation:

The following is the conclusion from the link again specific to 660nm and 684nm:

Our results suggest that LLLT induces an anti-inflammatory
reaction that may modulate transcription factors linked to
mRNA expression of pro-inflammatory cytokines. Further studies
are needed in this novel area to elucidate the exact mechanism
of action of LLLT in reducing inflammation.

Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Thanks for posting that Bob - will the wonders of the LightWorks cease?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Thanks Bob (and Sparkle, I saw your post on the other thread). So, I guess I should be using the 660 side and maybe it won't make me feel bad like the 880 side seems to?
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :

I used the 880nm infrared side for my arthritic toe and it definitely relieved the pain! Hiker53
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
The problem I'm having Hiker, is not that the 880 side doesn't help with pain (it does help), it's that I end up so fatigued I'm not functional.

I'll give the 660 side a try next week .... my grandma is coming for a visit this weekend and I'd like to be getting around better than her. [Smile]
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
Six said:

I'll give the 660 side a try next week .... my grandma is coming for a visit this weekend and I'd like to be getting around better than her.

[Big Grin]
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
One thing to keep in mind. 660nm, 1072nm and 880nm are in a way light supplements. They are a way of providing extra beyond sunlight which has all the light frequencies our bodies normally need. I guess in a way we need extra to fight an organism that is preventing us from being normal.

There is talk about EMF changes, what about atmospheric changes globally. Is there a change to how light frequencies that are delivered now compared to 100 years ago. Is there less 660nm now or less bioavailable because other light frequencies are not as prevalent?

Our environment is dramatically changing, it seems we to know more about what has changed and what we can do about it.
Posted by Nobody (Member # 16041) on :
adding informational quotes from another thread. If you'd like any of your quoted material removed, please reply on this thread and I will do so (I have PM turned off).


Some time ago, I sent a similar "alert" on one of the threads surrounding the Bionic 880 and other light instruments, and I want to repeat it here for everyone interested.

This is simply a message that I would like people to have, because basically the discussions with various other light instruments were brought about by my original post on the benefits of the Bionic 880.

I am in frequent contact with Dr. W. who has been using the Bionic 880 for eight years helping to clear out Lyme Disease peranently for many, many patients. I am also in contact with others who are using and are very familiar with the instrument.

My husband is clearly Lyme and co-infection free (after nine treatments) and we are working on some of the collateral/residual problems, especially clearing the toxic heavy metals from the body which was very difficult for him as long as he was still Lyme infected. He is doing extremely well, and now in need of good physical therapy to rebuild.

Since I have always had an interest in anything that might help anyone, I asked the question again, about the use of different lights, and have been told again that: ( I am translating here as good as I can)

``The Bionic 880 and its forerunner have been tested and changed as needed over a period of years to become a successful instrument, for many different applications, but especially for Borrelia infections. Certain frequencies and nosodes are the activators, aimed at a planned /intended reaction. If the frequencies used are not suitable/correct/the right ones that have proven themselves; if the power/strength is not available ; if the proper nosodes are not used; any or all these can elicit what is referred to a disarray (I liken it to a mess - gg), i.e. uncontrollable reactions and awakening of encapsulated diseases can or may happen = A breaking out or outbreak of uncontrolled/uncontrollable reactions.''

Having worked with the Bionic 880 now for a number of weeks and other lights/lasers long before that, I have learned not to underestimate the power of light. This is what I want to share.

Take care and be well.

hi GiGi, thanks for your message. good to see you back here, and REALLY good to hear your husband continues to improve. [Smile]

i think the people experimenting with the lightworks (i'm not one of them, i'm just making an educated guess from reading the lightworks threads) know they are doing just that -- experimenting -- and realize the many possible dangers that come with using one's body as a guinea pig.

unfortunately, due to limited funds and the nature of the illness and the lyme controversy, lots of us are left to experiment on ourselves in any way we can in an attempt to get better. it's not always safe, but i think that's how we learn; by brave people willing to try untested treatments on themselves. and so far it seems like lots of folks are having positive results from the lightworks, and i'm happy for them!

take good care, and much love to you and your husband.


evgen -

some of the posts about the Bionic 880, very sadly, have been deleted.

Still, you might search here for any threads that still exist.;search_forum=1


I see this as a very hopeful treatment and would be there in an instant if that were possible.

It is something to consider. I hope GiGi will come back and offer you some more direct materials.

This is just one piece about the Bionic 880:

Borreliosis treatment without antibiotics

More than 100 patients with borreliosis were treated successfully with the bio-photone-therapy. The treatment profile is described as follows:

Bionic 880: Borreliosis-ampuls D5, D6, D8, D10, D12, D15, D30, D60, D100, D200. Settings on the Bionic 880: Power 100%, frequency F3, time: 395 sec.

Treatments: Fix the 10 borrelioses-nosodes below the sternum. These 8 points are treated: both inner wrists, both ears, the frontal part of the brain (3. eye``), 7. chakra/limbic system, thymus, solar plexus.

Each point is treated for 395 seconds. Cycle of treatment: twice a week for three weeks, then examination. Is the test result positive, another treatment follows. After that, a month of waiting.

A total of 108 patients were treated and put under observation for a year. 90% of the treatments were successful. Reconvalescence of patients who were treated constantly with antibiotics took several weeks longer.


What I can't Fathom is, if the 9 treatments have been a cure, why buy the Bionic 880 and bring it home.

Have I got some information wrong here, ??? Am I making a mistake. ? Apologize, If I have got this wrong.

No matter how you cut this, healing is a process.

Even if lyme were to disappear in all of us tonight, we have heavy metals, other viruses and infections, etc. to come to terms with and the healing of tissue.

The absence of an infection will not automatically heal tissue. Healing is a process that requires an evolution of support. Light helps support tissue / cells to heal as much as they can. But you can't force it. It takes time.

That's how I see it.

Herxuk, yes, you might be missing the fact that Lyme Disease is a multifactorial disease. It is never only Lyme. I don't know any Lymie who only has Lyme and have met hundreds over the years. So some of the problems can be dealt with and (hopefully) repaired after Lyme is eradicated. My husband no longer has Lyme Disease. It's dead gone. Now we are taking care of the collaterals. A major event is that the body now lets go of heavy metals. This was always and still is Dr. K.'s mantra - they go together. You can't get rid of one unless you get rid of the other. Microbes love the metals, and metals are wrapped up in fungi, cholesterol, biofilm, etc, the body's way to protect itself from the deadly onslaught of toxic heavy metals. Now that the photon treatment, the complete protocol, has taken care of and eradicated all Lyme and co-infections, the body is starting to release the heavy metals and needs little urging to let go. But one has to be prepared and protect for the fallout - to avoid redistribution and resettling of the metals elsewhere. They easily are absorbed in the gut and start their merry journey all over again.
We are trying to not let this happen. So I treat -- again with photons and respective protocols.

I am fully convinced that the toxic metals create the fitting environment for the pathogens to settle in. Dr. K.: "there is a direct relationship between the amount of microbes that live in you and the amount of toxic metals".
From my perspective: Now the microbes are gone and the metals are leaving.

If you can't get rid of fungi and associated problems, think heavy metals. Lyme may be long gone. Something to think about.

I do energetic testing to find the problem and treat. Most of you do not believe in energetic testing, so in order to avoid another "debate", I will not explain it. But due to the lack of conclusive heavy metal lab testing -- (they only tell what is coming out - they don't tell how much and where it remains in the body) I test energetically the way I was trained and with this help we weave our way through the ups and downs of the detox hoping to avoid healing crises. Being patient helps.

Knowing that we do not deal with Lyme any longer feels like the most precious gift!

Keebler, you are so wise and understand. Thank you.

Take care.

P.S. I am treating a good friend right now with the Bionic880. He finished his 5th treatment today and has cleared all the different potencies of nosodes. The Lyme is gone. He had relatively little fallout from the Lyme, no herxheimer reaction whatsoever, a little pinch here and there, made sure he did wading in the river to push the lympathics or used our Air Energy and Chi-machine. Took lots of organ support (tested energetically) and did not suffer at all.

He is a Klinghardt patient and has done a lot of detoxing work. This finalizes the Lyme Disease and all co-infections until retesting a month from now and several monthly checks after that to make sure all remains gone.

He already tested energetically for heavy metals today - no metal showed when tested until today, the fifth treatment. So we will wait a bit and then approach that.

I am following the Dr. W. protocol to the T. I test everything before we start the instrument. And absolutely no nosodes without the photons in certain frequencies. Nosodes deserve respect.

And no abx when treating with photons - should be stopped a while before treatments start. With abx, the bugs go hide and the treatments fail.
Average number of treatments is 5 - 8. My husband needed 9. Structural problems have to be addressed also. Dr. W. does chiropractic work and a number of other modalities to handle that part. I use a Scenar (for home use)on my husband and myself. Google it if you don't know what it is.

My friend left here tonight happy as a lark!


Thanks for al this good info, everyone!

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I'm going to Germany Oct. 11, for appts. starting Oct. 13. [Big Grin]
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
I'll be there with Goof...can't wait
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
how come we have not heard from the other two people who went to germany and did the bionic 880 treatments but still had symptoms afterwards???

i cannot remember their usernames. but i am very curious to see how they are making out now that it has been some time since their returns to the us!
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
They were chased away and the threads were deleted.

The one who's husband was receiving treatment and did not see improvement is doing better. He was declared to be Lyme-free but was still symptomatic. He was recommended to see an osteopath and is seeing improvement now.

The other one, I haven't heard about.

I spoke with a lady who is over there with her two children. One child saw improvement starting at the second treatment. The other child had not seen improvement at the time I spoke to her.

I don't think I'll be talking to her again .... Dr. W had asked her to call me to answer questions about my appt in Oct.

I will keep a blog about my treatment while I'm there and I'm sure there will be a thread for discussion. I am going with someone else from the board.
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
when you mean the husband, do you mean the one out in the pnw or was/is he part of the other two groups/individuals that went over (there were 3 total on this board, i am not inquiring about the pnw couple, we know of their successes!).

there was one who was over there but came back symptomatic and one whose child came back feeling symptomatic as well.
did they improve once they tackled things after returning to the usa?
thanks again
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
John, the husband I am talking about is not the Pacific NW hubby .... he's the other one who came back symptomatic. He is seeing improvement with the other recommended treatments. I don't know specifics.

The third, I know nothing about.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Well folks - I leave for Germany in just about two weeks. 6goofy, steelbone and I were all hoping to have a lymie party there but they couldn't get in the same time as me [Frown]

I am antibiotic free for three weeks and feeling quite well most days. Extremely well on some days.

I will do my best to keep you posted while I am there.

In case anyone has unreasonable expectations - I want to let you know in advance that I am missing 1/4 of a vertebrae from a compression fracture that the bugs have been loving and will most likely be doing some metal detoxing when I get back.

I will be happy to work on those issues and fully intend to be lyme and co free [Big Grin]
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :

Best wishes in Germany and keep us posted when you are not consuming ale in the pubs! [Big Grin]

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Sorry, Hiker and Nano, there is no ale and there are no pubs in Germany. They haven't quite made it across the channel yet. But do pick out a nice Konditorei -- there are several, one a mile or two down the winding road in the famous spa from where you are staying -- heavenly! Don't miss it.

Our car found it blindfolded!

Take care.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Sorry, Gigi, I used the wrong terminology. All I know is I enjoyed the beer when I was in Germany many years ago. Of course the wine was excellent as well. Hiker53
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Did you say famous spa??? I'm a lot more interested in that than beer!!! (and beer put me through college .... no, I didn't drink it, Dad sold it, LOL).

GiGi, I've been listening to German tapes. I thought it might be nice to at least know the basics when I'm there! How much can I learn in two months, LOL.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Good luck in germany Nanadubo. [Big Grin]
Posted by Nobody (Member # 16041) on :

Are you doing the treatment in Germany or bringing a unit back? Are they allowing them into the US now? If so, would you be willing to educate those of us here who can't travel to Germany on the Bionic 880?

If it really does work, it needs to find its way into the US. Any smugglers on lymenet? [Wink]

Or at least certainly let us know if it worked for you!

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I am doing the treatment in Germany and brining a unit back.

GiGi said when her husband was treated she had a note from the doctor saying he needed it for ongoing treatment and were able to bring it home.

When she tried to have it shipped, it got caught up in customs.

I'll do a blog while I'm over there so you all can learn from my experience.

[ 31. August 2008, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]
Posted by Nobody (Member # 16041) on :
That's awesome! Can you put a link to your blog in this thread?
We'd really appreciate it.

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Yeah, I plan on it. [Smile]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Six, that is not correct. We did not have to pay any duty on the instrument. I explained that on my original post.

When returning home we declared the Bionic 880 on the required Customs form, with exactly the amount we paid for the instrument.

We did not, however, have to pay any duty on the instrument. We told the customs officer that it is for our own use and not for resale.

I am sure that our first instrument did not come through when I originally had it sent because of some fluke. Nobody could explain why it was just sitting there going nowhere; so I got tired of waiting and had it returned to the sender.

For an instrument that is not for sale and for self-use only, with the proper identification as a light type tool for self use and pain control, there is little or no duty. If I had to do it over again and did not have the means to go overthere to bring it back, I would have it shipped again. The identification is important. I would not label it as an infrared light or any such thing. The shipper should assist in giving it the proper name, so that it doesn't look like a dangerous instrument.

Hundreds or thousands of such lights come into the country every day. If there is duty, it is minimal. It costs less than anyone purchasing one in Germany because if shipped or taken out personally there is no Value Added Tax of 19% to be paid. The shipper has to clear it through German export to exclude that tax from what the foreigner pays.

If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail me personally. [email protected]

I have become very reluctant reporting anything here because of the "bad press" I received when I first posted about the success of the Bionic treatment. It was disgusting.

Let me reassure you, the instrument works eradicating Lyme.. If you have any problem remaining after treatment that has been done exactly to protocol it most likely is caused by other than Lyme or co-infections.

One thing that has to be addressed for certain is that if your back and neck is out of alignment and structural problems persist, that needs to be corrected. Dr. W. is fully equipped for that because he finds that to be a major problem. If you have been forced to walk a different way because pain kept you from doing it the way nature had intended, the outflow of toxins is hindered. Our CNS/spine is a major roadway. The energy has to be flowing from occiput to butt, but often the heavy metals are more of a problem there than Lyme. If you don't think you have a heavy metal problem and just Lyme, think again. I have posted on that for the last eight years. There is no way around it. If you live on this planet, metal contamination is a problem for the majority of ill people.

We use the tool often, but especially for heavy metal detox now. My husband had to have two extra Lyme treatments after the six he received in Germany. That is one reason why Dr. W. has patients coming back once a months for at least four months to make certain all Lyme is gone. All the people in Germany I have talked with had to do this. None I talked with had a relapse of any sort. Now my husband as well as I am lymefree for over a month. He is a different man today than he was two-three months ago.

We are using the instrument for hormone balancing, and for treating anything else that should not be in the body, such as heavy metals. My husband tested positive for polio (from vaccines, I am certain) that raised its ugly head years ago and now again. I treat it in the same manner I treat Lyme with the proper nosodes.
Epstein Barr used to be a big problem for him, but it seems to be gone, without extra treatment. Just the proper setting on the Bionic and Lyme nosodes.

Everything I do, if I do not have an ART person available, I use my Biotensor which I was taught by Dr. W. and it works great. When I do not have a third person to do ART testing and have done it without, the results always agree 100% with my Biotensor testing. We have not had to pay a doctor bill since we returned -- that is great news. And my husband is steadily improving. From the ten or so different toxic metals that I used to find when testing him, now I find three or four. All good things take time. At his age, that is a miracle.

Take care.
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
Gigi, you give us all something to look forward to and a bit of light in this often difficult journey. Thanks for sharing all that you do. It means the world to many of us.
Posted by KaitlinB (Member # 11718) on :
Thank you so much for sharing information about your treatment successes with the Bionic 880.

Your story is so encouraging and it gives me hope.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Sorry GiGi, I was just going by memory and sometimes it's not very good. I'll correct my post.

My mom had "infantile paralysis", now called Polio, when she was a child. That along with the vaccine ... I am sure I'd test positive for it. She actually had no ongoing physical disabilities .... at 68 she even teaches Jazzercise.

Did you get nosodes for Polio? How did you test for that?
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Did you get nosodes for Polio? How did you test for that?

What a great Mom!

Six, I tested with ART and/or Biotensor; or if you have access to EAV, Biocom, etc. Usually I come up with same results using ART or Biotensor. With ART, one should have 3 people (tester, middle person, and testee (patient or client) These methods are now used all over the world. Good training and healthy energy is important. Energy medicine at its best. Even Dr. Oz and Oprah talked today about Energy Medicine! Yes, and I use Polio nosodes.

I treat it because it may be an obstacle for the body releasing other unwanteds. It had been showing up in my husband on and off for many years, and now with the Bionic it is gone, just as the Lyme is gone including all co-infections. Very gone!

Take care.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
Originally posted by lymie_in_md:
Six the 660nm reduces pain the 880nm does not.

That's interesting that you describe using the 660nm light to decrease pain. I've had a three-light 660 nm Trilight hand-held unit for many years (also comes as one light or multiple-light wand). When I've waved it over swollen joints, the pain goes down.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Thanks, GiGi. I do plan on learning some kind of energy testing. [Smile] I know the very basics. I can have my husband test me for basic things. I can test my kids. But I need to learn more for the Bionic. [Smile]
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
I ordered the Biotensor Gigi talks about. It will be waiting for me in Germany. Most of the books I have been able to find are in German - except for one or two.

I am hoping Dr. W will be able to show me how to use it [Big Grin]
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Nano, how much did it cost and do I need to order it before I go or can I get it while I'm over there? Thanks.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Robin123 -- I'm glad you had a positive experience using LWRKS at 660nm and could relate to it. 880nm is powerful as well especially for lyme, I'm convinced after using the lightworks. Which is an underpowered version of the bionic 880 or the lumina 900 by heliohealth still be very helpful. I am interested in the more powerful units.

I think in the end we'll find that a combination of light wave frequencies is best. As long as they are energetically tested specific to the person.

Thinking out loud, these are my evalution of frequencies, 450nm for about 10 minutes a day over the naval (UV-A). To do blood irradiation of pathogens. 660nm (630nm is probably better) targets to places of severe pain for inflammation relieve and cell regeneration & repair. 880nm for energetic stimulation of cells as well as regeneration but different then 660nm as well as detoxification. 1072nm used in the helmet for actually killing pathogens directly (this is a guess) based on the use of led helmet so far and research papers I've read. 1072nm for detoxification not sure about cell regeneration or repair. It might be a good guess it would do neural regeneration.

My point is what we are discovering the value of frequencie other then just 880, and like robin123, 660nm has been wonderful for my tennis elbow (630nm) is probably better.

The question is to figure the best combination and to get practioners savvy enough to energetically test for it.
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
About $350 US
You can also get it at Dr. W office as I understand.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :

Here's a place to get dowsing rods in the US -

They aren't as fancy as the German Biotensors but they probably work well with a little practice. There's one around $25.

I just use a pendulum... I'm used to using it.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
It just so happened that I got my biotensor while at Dr. W. I merely got the brand name he uses and did my own ordering there when I happened to be at his office. Unfortunately, at that time I could not pay for the tensor with credit card. Bioplasma does not take them. People do not pay with credit cards as we do here in this country. So you have to make other arrangements. Dr. W.'s office has nothing to do with it - it happens that Dr. W. uses the same one for a number of years and that's the one that felt good to me after having tried numerous others over the years. It is an extremely well made and very sensitive one, which is not the case with many others I had tried. So it depends on what your aim is. I am after fine and accurate testing, percentage testing, etc. and that's why I chose the more expensive kind. I am guarding it and will be using it for many years.

So please check around if you decide to get a biotensor.

Take care.
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
does dr. k know about the bionic yet, GiGi? do you think he might purchase one for his office? i know A.R. was recently in europe; i wonder if she investigated the bionic while there. i'm not sure, as i haven't spoken to her about it yet.
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Originally posted by NanaDubo:
Well folks - I leave for Germany in just about two weeks. 6goofy, steelbone and I were all hoping to have a lymie party there but they couldn't get in the same time as me [Frown]

I am antibiotic free for three weeks and feeling quite well most days. Extremely well on some days.

I will do my best to keep you posted while I am there.

Any news from NanaDubo on how the treatment is going? I am anxiously awaiting more reports!

[ 21. September 2008, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: zombie_mummy ]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
From what I hear, things are going fine for Nano D.
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Originally posted by GiGi:
You may want to look into the Bionic 880 treatment by Dr. W. in Germany or by some of the other doctors listed. And someone may soon have the instrument in England.

I would love to know more about a Biophoton practitioner in England. GiGi, do you happen to know whereabouts in England? I am far too ill to travel alone to Germany but have family in the UK who might be able to assist me if I was able to go there for treatment.

I know there is a Bionic 880 distributor located just outside of Nottingham and that is very close to my father's hometown (one of my Aunts still lives there)...

[ 23. September 2008, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: zombie_mummy ]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :

Check with
I have heard he shows great interest and he may possibly have the Bionic 880 or get it soon.

You might also write the manufacturer, and ask there. The instrument is being sold to a number of foreign countries in Europe and some other doctor/practitioners may have one in the meantime also.

I hope you grab the opportunity when you can -- there is nothing better than at last being totally lymefree. If you have other problems causing some of your "condition", they are often easier to address once the Lyme and accompanying co-infections and other pathogens are eliminated.

Good luck and take care.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
This company sells the Bionic 880 in UK -

You may want to contact them...
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Thank you GiGi and Sparkle7 for your responses. I have sent an email to the ART practitioner in Sussex, asking if he has the machine yet. If I hear back from him, I'll let you all know what he says.
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
I have received a reply back from the ART practitioner in Sussex, England. He does not have a Bionic 880 yet but is looking into it. This is part of what he wrote back to me:

"I am most interested in the Bionic 880 and would like to learn more from Dr Klinghardt who is investigating it at present. I do not presently have or use one of these machines, but may do in the future. Please let me know your experience with the 880."

[ 24. September 2008, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: zombie_mummy ]
Posted by evgen (Member # 14118) on :
God bless those on the trip to Germany.
Will be interesting to know more about treatment by Bionics 880.
Posted by bejoy (Member # 11129) on :
The Lightworks LED with nosodes process is working, folks. I think we're talking cure.

If I had the funds and the language, I'd be spending a month in Germany with Dr. Woitzel, just begging to listen and observe his technique and process.

I've been using the inspiration of his work to develop a process that can work for me with what I have available.

I am certain that Woitzel's process and technique is far superior than anything I am doing, and that his results more profound, yet what I am doing is working.

I am seeing an expert in Applied Kinesiology to help me detect lyme in my body, and to figure out how best to treat using lyme nosodes and light.

A couple of weeks ago we detected lyme in the left kidney.

Treatment was to be five sessions (three days a week) of 880 near infrared B setting 15 seconds per session with two drops of DB LYM under the tongue or the bottle held against the body (I took the drops.)

In addition, I treat crown of head, forehead, back of head, thyroid, solar plexus, just below navel, and inside wrists and ankles, for under 30 seconds each.

I herxed hard after the first and second session with nosodes as directed, then felt better.

Appointment yesterday detected a clear kidney. I had him do a full scan of each organ, and lyme was detected in the liver. I'll do the same process.

Muscle testing showed that the nosode by itself would not be helpful, but would be helpful in conjunction with the LED.

I am also in the process of treating a strep infection in the nose and sinuses and gums with a strep nosode and LED.

I started all this process in a state of wellness. I can only imagine doing this in the state of illness I was in a year and a half ago. I imagine the herx, and need to detox might have been pretty overwhelming.

So long and short of it is, my experience tells me that lyme can be effectively treated with Lightworks and nosodes.

The trick is to find somebody to work with who can asist in the process, or to become an expert with the Biotensor or some such instrument yourself.

I am pretty well experienced in muscle testing and natural health, but I wouldn't want to do this alone!

I am fond of saying that any technique is only as good as the practitioner! I'm excited for those of you going to Germany to work with the best, and for those of you with access to the Bionic 880!

If I'd done this earlier, I would probably have needed lots of support with mercury and liver detox as well.

My practitioner is quite an expert in Kinesiology, yet I sometimes get the impression that he thinks I am over-reacting about finding every last lyme bug. Maybe just my imagination.

I have to be persistent in asking for more searching and more answers. You and I know that we don't want to leave any stone unturned with this critter!

I'm beginning to help some local people with this process. I'll keep you posted with any significant results.

Thanks everybody who helped point me in this direction.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
This is very exciting, Bejoy!!! Thanks for posting.

My life has been in a state of emergency for the past 2 years. I was very low in money & we've been going through a great deal of stress. I just didn't have the mind set to do it in any coherent way.

I just had the belief that 880 nM wavelength was light & that I can do it...

I really think what I did with the LightWorks made a dramatic difference in my health. It wasn't easy but it's working. I feel alot better but I still have some issues to deal with.

We've been needing to move from this place where I am now but I was just too ill to deal with it. Now, I'm able to pack & get things going. I never would have been able to deal with this if I didn't use the LightWorks.

I had no money to go to Germany. I think it's great that people here are doing that but it just wasn't a possibility for me at this time.

All of us working together as a collective can do this! We can crack the Lyme code... with the help of GiGi, Nanodubo, 6goofykids, Bob in MD, Dr. W & everyone else adding their experiences.

Everyone should have access to the technology so they can get well from this hellish disease.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Thanks for sharing your experience Bejoy, that is so encouraging .... I can't wait to go!!!
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
great stuff...can't wait to go..oct 11th hear we come
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
I suspect it is important to have Mg sulfate "available" in the system so when ATP is made, it will drive Mg back into the oxygen starved cell to react with CO2 as Bb needs CO2.


Home use...take an epsom salt bath first...perhaps.

Lease the bionic 880?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Epsom salt baths ... good thing our guest house has a bathtub, Steel! Then again, I believe Dr. W uses Mag. IV for treatment.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Paul -- will you and six at least spend some time with nanadubo while you're there?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
No, she'll be gone before we arrive. [Frown]
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
to gigi, six, or steelbone:

I was wondering... say the bionic treatment does eradicate the lyme completely. What about co-infections? TerryK posted earlier saying bartonella and babs usually have to addressed BEFORE the lyme. I'm considering going to germany if a few more positive reports come in, but I for sure have babs and bartonella too and I'm wondering how getting rid of the lyme would effect treatment of those co-infections.

Any input?

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
MOjoey, Lyme Disease is eradicated 100%, that means all co-infections as we know them are also gone. In fact, my husband still had an occasional Epstein Barr Virus showing before the Bionic880 treatment - all of that is also gone. Not a sign of any of them. Except now getting rid of heavy metals which seemed to now come from nowhere, i.e. they are much easier to bring out, but they need attention to avoid reabsorption.

There is not a single biochemical involved in the treatment of eradication. Simply nosodes and photons with certain powers. No specific organs are searched for or addressed: simply the light is applied, to all organ points at each treatment, the photons take off and head for the area where they are needed, clearing out the cell and reactivating the immune system. Bad stuff out, good stuff can enter again.

Marnie, you can forget all the biochemistry that you so love. It is not needed for that treatment. It is simply physics at initiating what the body can do best.

Any IV's that follows the photon treatments to help certain very toxic people, and in order to make it easier for them, consists of several homeopathic forms of drainage remedies. They are not the same for everyone.

All I can say, if you have the means, go for it. Or share in Bob/Maryland's group endeavour.
It wasn't easy for us either, but it is unbelievable what it does knowing that Lyme is gone for good.

The Bionic880 can be leased by licensed professionals within Germany - not outside the country. I know one doctor who owns one and leases two to accomodate patients.

The Bionic880 can be used for a multitude of different applications. I am treating my husband's blood at this time for possible allergic reactions to certain toxins. I am learning something new every day and the people I can contact are very generous and sharing.

I learned that a headache - with the right frequency - disappears within minutes with photon applications. I woke up with one the other day - ten minutes of light, selected frequencies and intensity selected with my Biotensor -- headache gone.

I hope all of you can share in this treatment method someday, somehow. It took a few years of trials to become truly a successful method to eradicate Lyme. I hope people are not going to destroy it by altering it to suit their needs. This is done with ART all the time - and it simply is not effective and true ART any longer and the next thing you hear "it doesn't work".

All I can say, if you have the means, go for it. Or share in Bob/Maryland's group endeavour.
It wasn't easy for us either, but it is unbelievable what it does knowing that Lyme is gone for good.

Take care.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Gigi- I respect you but I just don't agree that the only way to do it is with the Bionic 880 & Dr. W....

I've tried it on my own & it's worked by using the LightWorks. It didn't "derange" my system & I'm carefully detoxifying. I am continuing to get better & better, too.

You may know alot but I don't think you are qualified to say that alternate treatments to the Bionic 880 do not work. There have been no double blind studies done comparing the 2 devices or other infrared devices.

It's nice to have guidance but I'm not going to sit around here doing nothing when I could be getting well by my own means.

It's great for those who can go to Germany & I wish them all well. I'm not one to complain but one day I will be well & be able to afford the treatment in Germany. I may not need it then...

I guess time will tell. In the mean time, I hope people using any of these methods with infrared light, homeopathy, supplements, energetic testing, etc. will still keep posting their findings.

We can all continue to learn from everyone's experience. No one has a patent on these technologies - they may like to, though.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Sparkle, please read what I said and have said many times before.

I was well long before we went to Germany. There are thousands of other programs and protocols and therapies that can be eventually effective. But it took me years to do it and a lot more money to do it.

The Bionic 880/Dr.W. protocol works in three weeks - for the majority of patients, as long as the diagnosis was correct and all other "rules" are adhered to.

Please do whatever you want to do - I am not trying to stop you. Read again what I said.

I wish you continued success.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I think people are just waiting to see what the report is from some familiar people from this message board. Since several people are trying it out. We will know from their experience if it's worth the money.

For some people, it's not that hard to come up with $5,000 -$15,000 for the treatment & to buy the device. For others, it's almost impossible...

When you first started mentioning about this treatment, GiGi, I researched it. There just wasn't alot of people saying that the Bionic 880 cured them on European message boards. There is alot of ridicule of people using light for healing.

To me, if people were being cured - I would think some of these people would be talking about it on the internet. I just didn't see it. So, my attitude is to proceed with caution.

I did the research of scientific studies & using light for healing sounds promising. That's why I decided to spend $300 on the LightWorks to see what would happen.

I'm just not convinced that the devices are all that different. It will be interesting to see how people faire who have tried both devices - or to just get some reports from people who we "know" here from their posts on Lymenet.

I can see that spending $5,000 to go to Germany is better than muddling around going from doctor to doctor here & spending $30,000 or more. Many of us would like to hear about or see more proof that it really does "cure" Lyme.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I think people are just waiting to see what the report is from some familiar people from this message board. Since several people are trying it out. We will know from their experience if it's worth the money.

For some people, it's not that hard to come up with $5,000 -$15,000 for the treatment & to buy the device. For others, it's almost impossible...

When you first started mentioning about this treatment, GiGi, I researched it. There just wasn't alot of people saying that the Bionic 880 cured them on European message boards. There is alot of ridicule of people using light for healing.

To me, if people were being cured - I would think some of these people would be talking about it on the internet. I just didn't see it. So, my attitude is to proceed with caution.

I did the research of scientific studies & using light for healing sounds promising. That's why I decided to spend $300 on the LightWorks to see what would happen.

I'm just not convinced that the devices are all that different. It will be interesting to see how people faire who have tried both devices - or to just get some reports from people who we "know" here from their posts on Lymenet.

I can see that spending $5,000 to go to Germany is better than muddling around going from doctor to doctor here & spending $30,000 or more. Many of us would like to hear about or see more proof that it really does "cure" Lyme.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I think people are just waiting to see what the report is from some familiar people from this message board. Since several people are trying it out. We will know from their experience if it's worth the money.

For some people, it's not that hard to come up with $5,000 -$15,000 for the treatment & to buy the device. For others, it's almost impossible...

When you first started mentioning about this treatment, GiGi, I researched it. There just wasn't alot of people saying that the Bionic 880 cured them on European message boards. There is alot of ridicule of people using light for healing.

To me, if people were being cured - I would think some of these people would be talking about it on the internet. I just didn't see it. So, my attitude is to proceed with caution.

I did the research of scientific studies & using light for healing sounds promising. That's why I decided to spend $300 on the LightWorks to see what would happen.

I'm just not convinced that the devices are all that different. It will be interesting to see how people faire who have tried both devices - or to just get some reports from people who we "know" here from their posts on Lymenet.

I can see that spending $5,000 to go to Germany is better than muddling around going from doctor to doctor here & spending $30,000 or more. Many of us would like to hear about or see more proof that it really does "cure" Lyme.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I think people are just waiting to see what the report is from some familiar people from this message board. Since several people are trying it out. We will know from their experience if it's worth the money.

For some people, it's not that hard to come up with $5,000 -$15,000 for the treatment & to buy the device. For others, it's almost impossible...

When you first started mentioning about this treatment, GiGi, I researched it. There just wasn't alot of people saying that the Bionic 880 cured them on European message boards. There is alot of ridicule of people using light for healing.

To me, if people were being cured - I would think some of these people would be talking about it on the internet. I just didn't see it. So, my attitude is to proceed with caution.

I did the research of scientific studies & using light for healing sounds promising. That's why I decided to spend $300 on the LightWorks to see what would happen.

I'm just not convinced that the devices are all that different. It will be interesting to see how people faire who have tried both devices - or to just get some reports from people who we "know" here from their posts on Lymenet.

I can see that spending $5,000 to go to Germany is better than muddling around going from doctor to doctor here & spending $30,000 or more. Many of us would like to hear about or see more proof that it really does "cure" Lyme.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I think people are just waiting to see what the report is from some familiar people from this message board. Since several people are trying it out. We will know from their experience if it's worth the money.

For some people, it's not that hard to come up with $5,000 -$15,000 for the treatment & to buy the device. For others, it's almost impossible...

When you first started mentioning about this treatment, GiGi, I researched it. There just wasn't alot of people saying that the Bionic 880 cured them on European message boards. There is alot of ridicule of people using light for healing.

To me, if people were being cured - I would think some of these people would be talking about it on the internet. I just didn't see it. So, my attitude is to proceed with caution.

I did the research of scientific studies & using light for healing sounds promising. That's why I decided to spend $300 on the LightWorks to see what would happen.

I'm just not convinced that the devices are all that different. It will be interesting to see how people faire who have tried both devices - or to just get some reports from people who we "know" here from their posts on Lymenet.

I can see that spending $5,000 to go to Germany is better than muddling around going from doctor to doctor here & spending $30,000 or more. Many of us would like to hear about or see more proof that it really does "cure" Lyme.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I think people are just waiting to see what the report is from some familiar people from this message board. Since several people are trying it out. We will know from their experience if it's worth the money.

For some people, it's not that hard to come up with $5,000 -$15,000 for the treatment & to buy the device. For others, it's almost impossible...

When you first started mentioning about this treatment, GiGi, I researched it. There just wasn't alot of people saying that the Bionic 880 cured them on European message boards. There is alot of ridicule of people using light for healing.

To me, if people were being cured - I would think some of these people would be talking about it on the internet. I just didn't see it. So, my attitude is to proceed with caution.

I did the research of scientific studies & using light for healing sounds promising. That's why I decided to spend $300 on the LightWorks to see what would happen.

I'm just not convinced that the devices are all that different. It will be interesting to see how people faire who have tried both devices - or to just get some reports from people who we "know" here from their posts on Lymenet.

I can see that spending $5,000 to go to Germany is better than muddling around going from doctor to doctor here & spending $30,000 or more. Many of us would like to hear about or see more proof that it really does "cure" Lyme.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I wanted to post about Nanodubo's progress as she has been updating Steelbone and I. She gave me her permission today to update you.

She ended up needing her appendix removed while over there! Not a good time for a language barrier!

But, today she went back for her third treatment. In the beginning, she tested positive for all the vials. Today, she only tested positive for the weakest vial! She is feeling great and celebratory.

She said that when she tests free of Lyme she is planning on posting.

Dr. W does not want people using wireless internet through training as those who have stayed in town in a hotel with wireless haven't done as well as those who stay where GiGi did. So, Nano hasn't been online much. She goes to an internet cafe to keep Steel and I updated. I'm sure you'll all hear from her soon.
Posted by jl123 (Member # 15594) on :

"share in Bob/Maryland's group endeavor"

Could you by any chance provide any info,
maybe a PM about the Maryland group? I live
in nyc and so may be able to make a trip to

thanks, Jeremy
Posted by jl123 (Member # 15594) on :

"share in Bob/Maryland's group endeavor"

Could you by any chance provide any info,
maybe a PM about the Maryland group? I live
in nyc and so may be able to make a trip to

thanks, Jeremy
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Hello from Germany folks [Big Grin]

This is a long story so heads up if you're not ready for a mini novel.

At my first appointment with Dr. W, I for tested for 8-10 different strengths of lyme (can't remember how many he uses) - both German and American.

I tested positive for all of them. A heavy load. I also tested for sensitivity to wheat, sugar, yeast and egg whites. I was told that once the yeast was cleared from my gut I would be able to eat what I want.

We picked up all the nosodes specific to me at the pharmacy down the street along with homeopathic remedies (again specific to me) to support the kidneys, liver etc., and move out the metals.

I received my first treatment with the Bionic880 as well as an infusion.

The metals were moved as I could feel them and taste them all night [Roll Eyes]

I could also feel the cells communicating with each other. There was much excitement going on in my body and it was almost overwhelming in a good way.

Dr. W had said he thought I would have a quick and strong response to the biophotons.

Here's where the excitement beings! After two treatments I was experiencing a lot of abdominal pain over the weekend.

When I went back on Monday, he sent me to a hospital to have it checked out.

I was seen by the chief of staff as Dr. W knows him. He felt it was my appendix.

A few hours later I was being wheeled into the "theater" for surgery. Did I freak out? Yes.

It was a true faith walk to await surgery where a few spoke some English and most spoke none. There was a very kind nurse who held my hand for a spell who had "flown over Maine once" [Smile]

I toyed with the idea of giving into my fears and going home after the surgery but it didn't feel very satisfying to have to say "oh, I've just been through too much."

I stuck it out and I'm glad I did. When I returned to Dr. W he said that a lot of infection and lyme was being held in that area and he thought it would be interesting to test me again now that the appendix was gone.

This made me a little nervous as normally you don't get re-tested again until 5-6 treatments.

So, after just two treatments with the Bionic880 and one less appendix, I tested negative for ALL the but very weakest strength of lyme [woohoo]

I know that I will go home lyme free.

Dr. W wiped the tears from my cheeks with his hand and wiped them on his jeans. This is a kind man.

In terms of co-infections etc. He does not spend a lot of time discussing that. He did say I didn't have this or that but as gigi has said - when the lyme goes, all the friends go. Not her exact words by any means.

All biological issues come to the surface and are dealt with.

It is very precise yet so simple. Everything is tested. The very expensive chlorella I have been taking was not even doing anything for me but the $5.00 activated charcoal - yes.

Dr. W is very busy running from room to room. It is difficult to get my own questions answered. I am sorry if I don't have every bit of information at this time.

The biophoton therapy is extremely powerful and it works. I feel extremely well but this is not a cake walk, it is work and well worth it.

The Klein's apartments in Dobel are a very nice place to stay. They are extremely kind and the air and water are wonderful as is the little town of Dobel.

There are at least 3 bakeries down the street that try to reel me in by the nose when I walk every day. I do hope to be able to go in and eat something deliciously full of sugar before I go.

Oh, my concerns about my old spinal fracture - doesn't seem to be a problem and he said that whoever is doing the work on my back is very good.

All for now.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Nano!!! [woohoo] [woohoo] [woohoo]

I can't wait to go!!!
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
that is fantastic news and i wish you the very best with the rest of your treatment!

you should feel good that you had your appendix removed over there. i had 2 surgeries in germany and received much better care over there than any of the other 5 surgeries and procedures, and doc visits, i have ever gotten over here in the usa.
language barrier can make it scary but they are much less invasive over there, and like you said, the nurses can see that you are scared and will tend to that nervousness as opposed to what i have personally experienced here, which is just the opposite.
keep up the good work and keep us informed, please!

best wishes,
john in ny state
Posted by ihatelyme (Member # 16309) on :
How wonderful! God bless your treatments. I just don't understand why the instrument cost so much. If around a couple thousand dollars...that would be great...
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Nano's report makes me very happy.

About a week ago,I was sitting up my rhododendron tree with the chainsaw when the phone rang with her first call. I called back and she said that she had a belly ache - a nifty one. I suggested "move the load" and then remembered that my husband a couple of years ago had a similar pain. I asked he if she felt she had a fever - if she still had her appendix. No fever, but still appendix.
My husband at that point two year ago had a very slight fever and still the appendix. It was in the process of bursting, and when the ER guys finally listened to my plea, he was saved.

I am so happy for you, Nano, that there is a Dr. W.

You can go get that Schwarzwaelder Kirschtorte - that Black Forest cherry cake loaded with chocolate, cherries, and genuine whipping cream! soon. Once the Lyme is felled, a lot of the rest
will go with it.

Yes, vacation apartments do not do your laundry and most Germans are therefore able to spend vacation time at a nice place they still can afford. They don't have servants and personnel for all the Ritz comforts - nobody could afford to go there. I know Mrs. Klein does a tub of laundry for people if really necessary and for a small charge. But there are Waescherei's in town where you can leave your laundry to be done - I do not think they have laundromats per se in Germany where you do your own. Maybe; I don't know. Water and electricity in Germany cost a lot.

Good luck, Nano, for the rest of your stay. I know you will be lymefree when you get home. The rest is a matter of time.

Take care.
Posted by ericaf (Member # 10929) on :
I'm so sorry you had to go through surgery but the news that you're feeling better and the good news about the Bionic is really exciting!
Posted by Alv (Member # 15192) on :
WOWW!!Nanabudo I am so glad for you !

Please try the bakeries as they are great.The sugar test different in EUROPE( GERMANY) .I so miss them !!!!I wish I had come with you at the same time!!!

Hope I will be blessed to be there as you are .That is all I have been thinking lately!!!!
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
[woohoo] [woohoo] [woohoo]
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
trying to see replies
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
sorrry..trying again...if i had a better short term memory i'd have been able to remember what ali said and i would have already viewed it...
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
I'm so glad to hear the treatment is working, Nanadubo!
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Nana Dubo I am so glad to hear that your trip sounds wonderful and like a total success now that you are done with the operation part and on to your treatment.

Please eat something delicious and full of chocolate for me. I can't wait to eat what I want again.

Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Just amazing! Thank you for sharing, NanaDubo. You are the 2nd person here who had an appendix out recently...

Keep us posted!
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Yes, it appears that appendectomies are all the rage this fall [Wink]

I am hoping that my staples are ready to come out before I leave and that Dr. W is able to remove them rather than someone from homeland security [Eek!]

I had an extra biophoton treatment on the surgical area and I do believe it has sped up the healing process. I really am not hindered in any way other than feeling a little weakness in the area.

Some of you have contacted me and ask that I inquire about a number of topics. I truly would like to help everyone but you must try to understand the situation.

They are inundated right now. There are people in the waiting room with 3:00 appointments at 5:30. Everyone is extremely patient but everything takes time.

To spend 15 minutes trying to communicate about something that is not of direct concern to his patient is not fair to him or to the people waiting.

Please do not think that these issues are not of concern to me - they are but he only has so many hours in a day and they are being kept there until evening most days.

The days I am getting biophoton treatments and an infusion I do not even see him unless it is to wave or a quick check in to see how I am doing.

It is not unlike appointments with a doctor in the US. If you are going there for the nurse to check your blood pressure, you do not expect to chat with the doctor for an hour. It is the same here.

Please understand that there is room for misinterpretation with the written word (as we have seen on this site). I am very, very willing to share any information I have or get but I still have unanswered questions about my next steps.

If you are not able to come here, you still have the option of calling his office and arranging a time to speak with him. If you are planning to come here in October or November - bring a winter coat as it is getting very cold.

I was hoping to go to Octoberfest in the beautiful town of Ettlinger today but it is so cold and windy that the wool jacket I brought is not enough for being outside all day.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
It's not that Dr W's treatments are so expensive, Ihatelyme, it's that you have to go to Germany and stay a month. I think if you compare it to Lyme treatment here it's very reasonable.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Really happy for you Nanadubo!!! [woohoo]

By the way if you didn't know the red sox made the playoffs as a wild card. [lol]

Keep getting better!
Posted by ctlyme (Member # 9022) on :

Great to hear you are doing well.

Can you tell us what symptoms you had before and what sympyoms are now gone or diminished?

You mentioned in one of your Augusts posts that you were feeling better and on some days real good(possible from being off ABX).

I read some of your posts that said you had heart palps in the past. Has the Biophoton hepl that? I ask b/c i have been dealing w/ that for almost 4 years.

Good luck the rest of the way we are all puliing for you.
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
awesome! thank you for sharing. i'm so happy for you and looking forward to further updates. [Smile]
Posted by jamieL (Member # 16563) on :
Does Dr. W work on children with Lyme?
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
ctlyme - I have had just about every symptom you can list at one time or another.

For me, I believe antibiotics helped to some degree but I did not want to be on them for a really long time.

To the best I can remember and by the time I left to come here one of my remaining symptoms was lack of energy but no longer extreme fatigue. I now have tons of energy.

I spent yesterday taking pictures for hours in Ettlinger, shopping for German knick knacks/gifts and then walked into Dobel for dinner. Could not have done all this a few months ago.

Blurry vision that mangosteen helped for a spell but that is gone now.

Inflammation - 98% gone now - two treatments to go.

Stiff, crunchy sounding neck - gone now.

Feeling off balance when riding an escalator or something like that. Mostly gone but the biophotons leave me a little light headed somedays.

Dr. W told me to expect that.

Anxiety was a major problem. As all biological issues are brought to the surface with the treatments, I have dealt with a few full blown panic attacks while here.

This has subsided and I am not taking any medication for it.

I was not having heart palps for awhile and have not had any while here.

Yeast - all visible signs are gone and I will test again for this soon.

Abdominal pain - left wherever my appendix was put to rest.

Digestion - plumbing is working nicely now but was pretty poor for over a year.

All I can think of right now.

jamieL - I intend to ask Dr. W about children. I have one granddaughter with confirmed lyme and a grandson that I strongly suspect has it.

My feeling (and just my feeling) is that children would heal quite quickly with these treatments. Children tend to be able to bounce back from things more quickly in general.

I am 56 and have been ill for years. If I responded so quickly I would think kids have a great chance of getting rid of lyme and company.

This is just my opinion and I know now more than ever that this is so individual.

I see people of all ages at Dr. W's but I do intend to ask about children.

More after my appointment tomorrow. Oh yes, Mrs. Klein at the guesthouse where I am staying says I am too skinny but that I look ten years younger than when I got here [Big Grin]
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Thank you for the update and I am thrilled you now have more energy. It must feel fantastic.

Continue to have an incredible trip.

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Nana, can you put a percentage on how you felt before vs. how you felt now? I think that would be a help to those wondering how sick you were. [Smile]

I'm so happy you're doing so well. I wish you had a winter coat!! I can't wait to get there.

I'm already too skinny, I'll take the looking younger part though, LOL.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Dr. Woitzel discovered his treatment method with homeopathic nosodes/Bionic880 (an earlier model then) when treating a child whose parents insisted on a "no-antibiotics" approach. The very sick child was well within a very short time; just as it happens now, if the diagnosis is correct. That was eight years ago. He has treated people older than my husband - into their nineties. It won't fix everything, but it fixes Lyme Disease.

It's the light and energy! ( The right light and the right energy that is!)

Take care.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Nana, what other treatments did you use prior to Dr. W, as you say fatigue was your main remaining symptom?

You were brave to undergo surgery
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
It seems like the people who do well from this treatment are those that already have significant progress/symptom resolution...

It doesnt seem like a treatment for those that are very ill (like myself) and can barely function at all, or are way too sick to travel all the way to Germany.

GiGi what do you mean by "diagnosed right"? Are you saying if it dosent work for someone that they never had lyme to begin with??

I am just asking because if you have proof of lyme and the treatment doesnt "work" than its just because the treatment didnt work. I dont think this is going to work for everyone because than NO one would have lyme disease... It seems like a good treatment for those who already have some symptom resolution and are functioning at a higher level.

If this was a cure for lyme than we would have nothing to worry about.

I wish I had the money and the well being to go just to see how it would work for me... I am way too sick to travel... even to my doctors.

Nana... I hope the rest of your trip goes well and you come home with new found health.

I want everyone to be healthy believe me, BUT.... I have just heard since I found out that I had lyme that there was NO cure.. that I wold NEVER be cured... So I think if this was a cure for us than LLD's would be trying to get these machines to cure us.. make us better.

I wish you the very best and good health!
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :

i wanted to add that i am planning on calling Dr. W's office on Monday to set up an appointment. I have not had any clear symptom resolution from 3 months of ABx except some alleviation of brain fog.

I have been ill for 3 yrs, and I consider myself 90% housebound, can't exercise, can't sleep...textbook.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't come back 100% because of all the secondary issues (heavy metals, viruses, damaged organs) but the question is would I be able to skip the long-term ABx after I come back and still be able to heal to full wellness? I know that as of right now, the ABx are the only thing that has really helped me noticeably in the last 3 years, so if the answer to that question is "yes", then I would say the treatment was a success for a severely ill patient

Posted by jamieL (Member # 16563) on :
I am considering going ot Germany this summer with my girls if he does in fact treat kids with Lyme.

Anyone want to go with? June or July looks good to me...
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Six - it is difficult to put a number on it but I will try. Last January and February I was bed ridden.

That I think would allow me to say I was only minimally functional.

Severe brain fog, loss of balance, earaches, stiff neck, digestive issues, non-stop headaches.

Things vary so much and I was never able to figure out what the pattern was but there did seem to be one.

In August when I was having really good days - I would say I was functioning around 70% or more.

Maybe the therapies I tried brought me to that level but I had to decide if that was going to be as good as it would get.

The answer was no. I wanted my life back.

I had a good diet, a good naturopath, but could not afford the other therapies he made available to me -Hyperbaric, sauna, etc.
on a regular basis.

It was pretty much my diet, my will, 5 months of antibiotics and a lot of supplements.

I stopped all antibiotics 5 weeks before I left for Germany.

In my eyes I was operating at 70% (maybe even higher) but learned I had a very heavy load when I arrived here. How do you accurately put a number on it?

Perhaps I was about to go downhill again soon? That has happened a number of times over the years.

There have been people here who are quite a bit sicker than I might be, but have had similar results. I don't believe you have to be "almost well" for this treatment to be successful.

Maybe it just takes longer.

Dr. W is very good at figuring out what is going on with each person and treats accordingly. Not the same for any two people.

I know that it was not necessarily easy to come here but I had to know if this could help me.

Our bodies, even when rid of lyme need time to heal. All our tissue, organs and cells have been affected. This does not happen overnight.

I am grateful that my energy is restored but I have to remind myself not to go nuts but to slow down and let things make the transition.

Does this make sense? I wish I could be of more help.

Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Mojoey--- That is me too.. I have been the same way.. cant exersice and cannot function on a daily basis for almost 2 years.. have been on abx for 5 months with little change if any. I hope you ahve a good convo with teh doc!!!

Nana--- I am going to pm you... when you ahve a chance I hope we can chat a little!!! I wish you well!

Posted by ctlyme (Member # 9022) on :
Thanks for the reply Nanadubo.

Hopefully the positive reports keep coming from you and from six and steel when they go.

Gigi and you guys are giving us some hope.

We shall see.

Be safe and hope you have continued improvement.

P.S. GO SOX!!! (Red Sox)
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Shandy, I suspect you are partly correct, the sicker you are the longer it takes to heal. If you to work hard to heal, I believe you will!

Shandy do you have other issues other then lyme, such as viruses? metals? dental problems? parasites? Other pathogens?

I believe Dr. W.s treatment will handle any kind of pathogen.

I think the big complications for how long healing takes is purely individual. Emotional issues where your own mind works against healing. If you have dental problems those have to be fixed or healing can take a real long time. If you have excess mercury in your body, that takes time to chelate.

Emotional issues are probably the biggest reason healing can take a long time. I've read a number of accounts of folks who had lost a loved one and their health deteriotated shortly after. Only when they could address those issues could healing take place.

As far as mercury, I got to say I love the media for disinformation. They will say avoid tuna fish as if that is the only place mercury exists. Let me clue everyone in on something, mercury is in the air we breath, the water we drink and in the food we eat. In many of our household products. Don't believe me, check out the following article from the new york times:

Dental issues, root canals, gum infections, tmj, etc...

Our greatest weapon is to aid our bodies ability to detoxify.

The equation is quite simple, detoxify faster then toxins build up. Dr W. can help you get rid of lyme, but the burden is still on the patient to ensure their own health. We especially have to detoxify and rebuild our bodies. No one is going to do that for you.

So Dr. W. has his task, to get rid of lyme. We individually have our own tasks to detoxify.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Hey Bob!!

I have no mercury fillings at all... I only did the clear fillings that are mercury free becaue I am/WAS a singer and didnt want a mouth full of silver when I was on stage singing!

I have tested negative for all virus's except IgG on EBV. and see I already forgot what else you said...AHHH my brain... I do have emotional problems because of being sick.. it has totally screwed with me and I am an emotional wreck.

I have so far tested Negative for ALL co-infections and other pathogens.. I think I tested low positive for Mycoplasma P.

I dont know what is going on with my body but... I am done with ebing this way... that I know.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
If I keep hearing positive reports from others that go I might like to go next summer when school is out.

I am particularly interested in those who have bartonella or anyone who has myoclonus or severe muscle spasms and imbalance.

I am from Illinois. PM if interested. Hiker53

P.S. I am female if that matters.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :

Are you going to buy a machine to bring back? Forgive me if this question is rude.

Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Shandy, if you were treated with a bionic 880, despite how sick you are now, you would probably do extremely well, as long as you worked on your emotional state.

You still have to detox, your body isn't doing it well enough right now. We can still take in and can still have quite a bit of mercury from other sources as well as lead and other heavy metals.

I had dental issues, so I know what they are and I dealt with them. I will have a detox protocol for the rest of my life.

So take some time to create a detox plan. Ask others for help.

Really hoping you get better. [Smile]
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I have a feeling that this method of getting well is very effective. I tried to develop a way of doing it at home using the LightWorks & had very good results.

It's not for everyone to do this at home with the LightWorks! I experimented on myself since I know my body & did alot of research. I wasn't able to go to Germany but I did need to be able to function.

The thing I realized with using infrared light is that it works in a completely different way than any other drug, supplement, body work, acupuncture, homeopathy, etc. that I have ever experienced.

It is not the same as taking drugs. I'm not sure how it works or if there are studies about the mechanism of light but it's really something else.

No method can be 100% for everyone but I feel confident that this may help alot of people. I'm really happy for NanaDubo. I hope she will continue to improve. I also hope people will continue to post their results for both positive & negative.

Healing takes time. It will be good to continue to hear about the long term results & how people do after returning from Germany. I hope there will be respect shown towards people with questions & towards the people sharing their experiences.

No one is bashing anyone who has a problem with abx or a picc line. No one should bash anyone who has a positive or negative experience from using the infrared light, either.

We need to continue to get the reports about this modality. Thanks you to those of you sharing your experiences!
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Bob, you hit the nail right on the head!

When I first contacted Dr. Woitzel in May, asking him about co-infections, he said "the photons take them out". I listed all of them in my e-mail to him, same response. Being totally aware of the huge role toxic heavy metals play, I asked him "what do you do for heavy metals?". His answer "the photons take them out".

In all the testing I have done since we returned, we never again found any Lyme or co-infections. Zero. None. That is done by energetic testing, but that is also the way we had found them before the Bionic treatments. My husband had all of them at one time or another.

Dr. Woitzel is absolutely right - the photons take them out. But it is a long road for a methylmercury molecule from the interior of a cell in the brain (or for that matter any cell) to the toilet!

I was fully aware that my husband as well as myself were at one time very heavy metal toxic and, I myself, even more toxic from thioethers/mercaptans from the teeth and root canals. (They are worse than the heavy metals.)

Since treatment in Germany and since we have the Bionic 880, he is getting rid of so much toxin, on a daily basis. I have a very fancy biotensor and can test him and the output energetically. If there were a dependable lab, I would send the stuff in. But I really do not think this is money wisely spent. It is really as if the photons opened all the spigots. Now it takes constant support of binding agents to mop up in order to really leave the stuff in the bathroom.

I have also found that with the release of these toxins, nests of other undesirables are opened up. Fungi, parasites, etc. --some of the stuff the body forms and builds up to protect us from the deadly mercury, etc. All of that is now releasing and needs to be attended for drainage.

So not everyone is going to return from Germany feeling on top of the world. My mantra has always been: - for most people it is never "only" Lyme. But, boy o boy, does it ever feel good not to have to deal with any of these critters any longer!

Nano, keep at it and ask questions! I snuck them in wherever and whenever I could, to the point where he said 'let's put some time aside and sit down and talk about all of this'. I learned a lot. I always re-form my doctors into my teachers. It makes them feel better too.

Take care.
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
Hiker i have Bart...
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Hey Paul did you get that from Maverick the old TV show? [lol]
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I don't think that saying that the LLMD's would be using it if it worked is entirely accurate. If GiGi didn't know someone in Germany who went to Dr. W, none of us would have heard of him through her. When I brought it up to my LLMD, he had never heard of it.

Plus, there is the FDA to contend with. The LLMD's already get into trouble for not following the "standard" of care as determined by the IDSA, so there are also the insurance companies and AMA to deal with as well.

Hiker, I was diagnosed with bart because of my response to Cipro and Levaquin. I had severe GI problems and cognitive symptoms that cleared up on Levaquin. I do not know how much of a problem that is for me now.

Nana, thank you for giving us an assessment of where you were when you went.

Don't forget MOLD when discussing other co-issues. From my recent experience, I don't know that you could get better from Lyme with a constant mold exposure.

I would feel better on abx, then crash within weeks after ending them. I think the abx were holding down the inflammation and the Lyme load while I was being exposed to mold.

I have gone through severe detox since getting rid of the mold exposure. I tasted heavy metals (that I tested negative for after chelating, BTW), I didn't leave the house for days and felt even worse if I tried to walk around a little.

After a couple weeks now, I'm finally starting to feel some relief. I hadn't felt this bad since the beginning of Lyme treatment.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Hi everyone. I just got an email from Nanadubo. She wanted me to tell all of you that she knows she has a lot of PM's. She does not have a car anymore in Germany so she will not be driving into town to use the internet cafe as she was before. All the PM's will have to wait until she returns to the states.

She cannot ask Dr W all the questions. She has questions of her own and we all know how hard it is just to keep track of that when we're at our own LLMD appts.

She is still feeling good and will be back to LN in about a week.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Does anybody know what happened to Clancy's husband? It would be nice to follow up with him, too.

I am eager for NanaDubo to come back and report more. It does sound like she responded well to abx & diet (from bedridden to 70%).

Unexpected & others--I'm learning more and more about mold issues. I would check your house for mold issues. Lymies with severe mold exposures have trouble getting well if they have biotoxin/detox issues. Sometimes toxic molds hide in slow leaks behind walls and get into the ducting system in a house.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Nana has talked to Clancy. Her husband is apparently improving with the orthopedic work that was recommended to him in Germany. That's all I know. [Smile]
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
O2 -- It's possible Clancy won't post anything here again. And I don't blame her, some of the attacks in her thread were outrageous.

Some of those who were here at lymenet would call constructive criticism were actually attacking people personally. When people are attacked they tend not to provide information, so we lose honest appraisals and we are the losers.

I hope Clancy's husband gets fully better and my prayers are with them.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
I do believe I have a mold issue in my house... Unfortunately I can't move right now... so I dont know how exactly I can be rid of it if I do not move?? Even if I treated it it would be a waste because I LIVE in it...

I know someone right now who is using the bionic880 in California... I will keep up on her progress...

I am open to such things... I meant no harm by what I wrote in my post at all... just some questions I have and trying to understand all of this.

I wish everyone the best of luck that go to Germany!! I hope you come back healthy!
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Unexpected, if mold is a problem I would really focus on detoxing thoughout treatment. I did make significant progress with treatment, but detox made me see the most results.

Hands down the detox method that gave me the clearest results was the coffee enema. Eating right, exercise as I am able (might be a walk around the room [Wink] ), water, burbur, etc. were all good, too, but my family and the LLMD even noticed my clear progress when I started the coffee enemas.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Unexpected, if mold is a problem I would really focus on detoxing thoughout treatment. I did make significant progress with treatment, but detox made me see the most results.

Hands down the detox method that gave me the clearest results was the coffee enema. Eating right, exercise as I am able (might be a walk around the room [Wink] ), water, burbur, etc. were all good, too, but my family and the LLMD even noticed my clear progress when I started the coffee enemas.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
I just set an appointment with Dr. W in 4 weeks. I was able to speak with him for a moment, and he sounded really kind.

I'm still trying to gather as much information as I possibly can before I leave. I have heard from one patient who saw him recently and has a dispute with Dr. W. I'm also trying to see if I can get my chiro in LA interested in this. If she'd be willing to purchase the machine, I would rather buy it for her than for myself and have her treat me with it in the future.

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Joey, I'm there until Nov. 1. Will our trips overlap? If so, it will be good to meet another Lymenetter. [Smile]

In brief, as I'm not interested in gossip, but what is the dispute? Just trying to get an idea of what someone would be upset about, don't need all the details.
Posted by ItCantBeTrue (Member # 17151) on :
Everyone, please keep us all updated on your progress! ( I know nan is out of touch for a while but I can;t wait to ehar the rest of her story when she gets back!)

I am seriously considering this treatment for my girls. If it works, it would be a Godsend.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Bob, I hope somebody can find out from Clancy then, I understand why she wouldn't post.

Unexpected, you can remediate. IE tear out the moldy wall(s) and replace. It has to be done properly of course. Go buy the book by Mary-Beth Short Ray. Look on Amazon for it. She fixed her house which had aspergillus. OTOH her office had stachy and she got out of there. Unless its a toxic species of stachy you can remediate. If you believe you have a mold issue, some of us with chronic lyme/coinfections & mold issues who have genes for poor detox cannot get well in a mold environment.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
OB, I would but i dont own this house and we cannot afford to really live day to day, nevermind replace walls... My grandparents own tge hosue and I guess they dont care to get the mold problem fixed [Frown] Oh well
Posted by sunshinyday (Member # 14337) on :
Nana Dobo,

So glad that you are doing well!

Good for you!

Looking forward to hearing more.

Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Reading this thread makes me feel very positive that there might just be a healthy treatment out there ahead for many of us. I did do antibiotics in the past but would rather do something else in the future.

Currently I am only doing herbs for LD and Bart.

Gigi I have a question about mercury fillings. If I wanted to go to Germany next Spring when it gets warmer there for treatment would I need to get my mercury fillings and 1 crown out first?

I have been energetically tested for heavy metals twice and yes I do have heavy metals but mercury does not seem to be one of them at the moment.

I have also done a hair analysis in the past and a blood test for mercury given to me by a LLMD in 2006 both were negative for mercury. I have yet to do a urine test for mercury.

Thank you,


Ps. Nana Dubo keep up the great healing!!!!
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
six--I have no idea what the dispute it, but I think the person will tell if she feels comfortable there won't be a backlash against her. I think this is important so that we get all sides of patient experiences with him. It'd be a shame for us to spend thousands to go see Dr. W if we encountered a similar dispute with him that made us cut the trip short.

My first treatment is on 10/23, so yes I will hopefully see you and steel! Where are you guys staying? I hope it's not raining/snowing when we go there. I would like to get around via a bicycle & train if possible

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Joey, we are staying at Mrs. Klein's guesthouse that GiGi has mentioned. Dr. W doesn't want people staying somewhere with wireless internet as he has seen it have a negative effect on treatment (remember light is an energy and EMF's can interfere, we're not talking about a "chemistry" treatment).

I don't think any of us should "bad mouth" our doctors publicly, so I don't know that someone should really tell completely about a dispute, but if it's something that genuinely affects those of us going over it would be nice to hear something (is it a treatment dispute? a financial one? etc.).
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Originally posted by UnexpectedIlls:
It seems like the people who do well from this treatment are those that already have significant progress/symptom resolution...

It doesnt seem like a treatment for those that are very ill (like myself) and can barely function at all, or are way too sick to travel all the way to Germany... It seems like a good treatment for those who already have some symptom resolution and are functioning at a higher level.

If this was a cure for lyme than we would have nothing to worry about.

I wish I had the money and the well being to go just to see how it would work for me... I am way too sick to travel... even to my doctors.


I want everyone to be healthy believe me, BUT.... I have just heard since I found out that I had lyme that there was NO cure.. that I wold NEVER be cured... So I think if this was a cure for us than LLD's would be trying to get these machines to cure us.. make us better...

Shandy, I am much like you, mostly home-bound these days due to my illness. I am partially paralyzed and have 3 young children.

I was put on iv abx for 7 weeks in the spring but had to stop because I was herxing so violently, I wound up in the hospital ER 3 times. My LLMD does not know what else to do for me. All he knows is abx.

I then tried various alternative protocols (salt/c, mms, herbs) but had bad reactions to those as well. I believe I'm so toxic, that anything causing me to herx also causes too much inflammation for me to handle. The only things that have helped me are changing my diet (Specific Carbohydrate Diet), TCM foot nerve therapy and getting my mercury amalgams replaced (I now KNOW I have metal issues).

My parents told me 3 days ago that they will help pay for me to go to Germany and have the treatment done. It's really my only hope of recovery, I feel.

I have to renew my passport, make arrangements for childcare and then try to book an appt. with Dr. W. so I don't yet know when I will be able to go but I will keep you posted. If it works for me, chances are it will work for you.

[ 29. September 2008, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: zombie_mummy ]
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
zombie_mummy I just wanted to say congrats on getting the green light to plan the trip.

I am sure it will be a lot of work to get over there but it may really be rewarding in many ways when you do.

Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
if folks keep having positive results i may try to go to germany next summer/fall as well, depending on my financial situation.

GiGi, i'm so happy to hear your husband continues to improve. quick question: what sort of binding agents is he using? something dr. W recommended, or the usual chlorella/MSM/pectin/betasitosterol/zeolites/etc?

please keep the reports coming. best of luck to everyone traveling to germany and treating with dr. W. [Smile]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Reading this thread makes me feel very positive that there might just be a healthy treatment out there ahead for many of us. I did do antibiotics in the past but would rather do something else in the future.

Currently I am only doing herbs for LD and Bart.

Gigi I have a question about mercury fillings. If I wanted to go to Germany next Spring when it gets warmer there for treatment would I need to get my mercury fillings and 1 crown out first?

I have been energetically tested for heavy metals twice and yes I do have heavy metals but mercury does not seem to be one of them at the moment.

I have also done a hair analysis in the past and a blood test for mercury given to me by a LLMD in 2006 both were negative for mercury. I have yet to do a urine test for mercury.

Thank you,


Ps. Nana Dubo keep up the great healing!!!!

Angelica, all I can tell you is that Dr. K. would highly recommend that amalgam fillings be removed. I am sure you have seen the "smoking tooth" I posted the other day. That is happening throughout the day as you move your jaw, bite, and drink hot and cold. The "vaporized" organic mercury moves in and up and turns into a different form of mercury that is much more difficult to remove from the body, especially out of the brain. The brain is lipid - mercury is attracted to it.

If mercury does not show up in a hair test means exactly the opposite of what you think or your uninformed doctor thinks. It does not show in the hair because your body is not releasing it.
Once you start going on an effective detox program, mercury will show up in the hair.

That is why hair tests are done, before a detox; and then another hairtest following a few weeks of metal detox; if the metal then shows up in the hair, it is a strong indication that you are heavy metal toxic.

The same for lab tests. If your body is not equipped to detox it, it will not show in urine or stool without a challenge. With a challenge test with DMSA or similar, often some metal shows up in the urine or stool. Sometimes none show up. If you have them in the mouth, chances are they are in your body and Central Nervous System.

No test can tell how much is remaining in the body. When all symptoms are gone, toxic metals are usually gone.

If you go the Lyme Bionic880 route, you can still have symptoms of heavy metals after a successful eradication of Lyme and co-infections. And further detox should be done. The Bionic seems to automatically help the release of metals. I posted about that before. It's a long way from the cell to the toilet. It all depends on how loaded with metals a person is.

That does not mean it is not in your body. If you test for it energetically and the testing is done correctly, especially with fillings still in your mouth, the mercury is still in your system.

I suspect that many Lyme sufferers have long gotten rid of the Lyme, but are still hanging on to other neurotoxins causing identical symptoms.

Different toxic metals never show up at the same time. I am really learning that now: Since my husband has had the Lyme treatment with Bionic880 and eradicated, cleared all Lyme and co-infections, the heavy metals are flowing and I can test them literally every day in urine and stool. He had done heavy metal detox for at least eight years! So we know that pathogens, fungi and mold, are holding in the metals and detoxing is difficult. That seems to have changed now.

So if you decided to go get the Bionic treatment next year and still arrive with your fillings and the source of your toxins intact, it means you are then constantly still moving mercury into the brain (they usually head "north" into the brainstem) and you are going to have to recycle all that miserable stuff all over again. Why?
The teeth will be giving off mercury for years and years. It doesn't make sense not to turn the gas stove off while the gas is still escaping into your living quarters!

Now you have time to do it slowly if you wish. It is best to either do it very slowly with many weeks in between, or rather quickly within a week or two in between in order not to expose the body to longterm stress. And of course get a good preparation before you have it done. Today I would get "Biologo Detox" - while doing it because it covers all aspects of keeping things calm while doing the work. I have posted about it before and it is only available in Austria right now. But it is doable and so much easier on the system. It's expensive, but it covers the whole detox on all levels. Maybe you have a friend in Europe who can get it for you and mail it here. The company cannot at this time. I don't know why.
If you need help with that, let me know.

In short, I got well once the bugs were gone and I had no more metals in my mouth. Dr. K. would not consider treatment before advising you in a similar way. My addition to that is - metals are part of the cause for the microbial invasion into our body.

Hope this helps.

For others reading here: If Lyme is eradicated and total health has not been restored, the diagnosis was incorrect and/or other contributing problems overlooked or not taken into consideration.

My husband is now showing massive fungi and mold, with energetic testing. Aspergillus that showed up in a Darkfield, I just learned as I kept digging, produces dopamine, in my husband's case excessive dopamine which causes other neurotransmitters to be out of balance; he has very low serotonin, on and on. So I am busy learning to treat him with Bionic for these hidden remains.

Six is correct. Lyme has nothing to do with mold. Mold has nothing to do with Lyme. Metals do - that is the common basis for our chronic infections. Dr. K. wrote about and published this in the nineties. Look it up on his website: Metals and Chronic Disease. And we eat and breath the stuff every day. Mercury in the atmosphere everywhere. We need to learn to be on a lifelong detox for the heavy metals if we want to stay well.

All this is a bit distant from the thread at hand, but it all plays into the fact why some people are not totally up and running after the Bionic treatment. Many are, which is obvious from all the people I have talked to who had the Bionic treatment.

Someone mentioned a Dr. Ke. who practically lives around the corner from Dr. W. I am very familiar with him, he is a typical abx-ler. I know that Dr. W. sees his patients for a few weeks. His neighbor who does not use the Bionic has a revolving door = job security. Bionic treatment is not covered by normal health insurance - only the privately insured. Draw your own conclusions.

One of the reasons it took me so long to catch on about Dr. W's work is that my brother told me that it is a Dr. in that same city who treats Lyme with photons. I assumed that the Lyme doctor I knew in that city must be Dr. Ke. and knowing that he is an abx-ler, I discounted the whole story for over two months. Then one day it hit me --- I must find out who that Doctor is in that city - and I found Dr. W. I later learned from Dr. W. about Dr. Ke's attitude toward the Bionic --- well, what else is new? There are doctors and there are healers.

Til some other time.

Take care.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Heiwalove, see my note on Biologo-Detox. It is great. I use everything except the kitchen sink to mop up. I found a new one that is not expensive either -Guar Gum. Got it from where I buy our usual pound of Goji berries to nibble on!

Take care.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Gigi thank you for your reply.

I think I would like to start removing my fillings slowly so that I can leave for Germany next April May or June.

I am deciding between more then one dentist at the moment before I begin.

I will probably be contacting you to find out how to get some Biologo Detox.

I can't wait to be able to finally eat the foods I enjoy again without guilt like a piece of fruit or even ice cream.

Thank you again,

Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
I know, I know, I said you wouldn't be hearing from me until next week but I had to get to a computer this morning to see what is going on!

First - guar gum that gigi mentioned: My acupuncturist in the US is from China and she has all of these things. I will be speaking with her in short order when I return to continue detoxing.

Metals - Here is my experience and what Dr. W told me. He did not refuse to treat me with amalgam fillings, although I do intend to have dental work when I get home.

What he DID say is that conflicting metals is a bigger issue for me. A gold crown and amalgam fillings. He said I probably enjoy being able to pick up the BBC.

I am only repeating what he told me - "one or the other, but do not have two different metals". He said it was most important that one or the other go. He was not saying that amalgams are okay. I think he is sensitive to cost of things and wants me to start by doing one or the other first.

I am taking things to help clear the metals out and am so grateful he tested some things for me. Very important as I have said, the expensive chlorella I was taking was not doing a thing for me.

I saw the video last winter about smoking amalgams. docluddite also pointed it out to me. All things in good time.

As far as Clancy goes. I have met with them several times and I will ask their permission to write something when I get home. He is not having orthopedic work, he is working with an osteopath.

lymie_in_md is very correct in talking about emotions. Dr. W said "there will be many tears". There have been a number of huge emotional releases. Everything is released.

I was worried about some things I was experiencing the last couple of days but I see now it is just more correction taken place. I had a couple of drenching night sweats and babesia type symptoms that I have not had for months, return briefly.

My feeling is that is saying farewell. Gigi also reminded me that the hormones start balancing and that sweating is a form of detoxing too.

I am feeling fantastic. It is hard to let it in. I never thought I would hear myself say that - but along the lines of what lymie_in_md talked about - there is much emotion.

It will take some re-calibrating in my brain to find new ways to spend my time and energy. I am more than happy to do this!!

My plan is to detox, detox, detox when I get home. The biologo detox gigi found sounds very good. It is a shame they don't ship to the US. I do have friends in the UK and Austria and will look into getting this asap.

lymie_in_md - I don't think steelbone is old enough to remember Maverick but I sure do [lol]

Someone mentioned bicycling around here. I hope you are in better shape than I am as it is all uphill from Pforzheim to the Klein's apartments, and I do mean UP. The bus stop is a 3 minute walk.

I am walking a few miles everyday which is quite an accomplishment for me and it feels very good [Big Grin]

I highly recommend staying at the Kleins's apartments and out of the city. They are quite conscious of doctor W's concerns and are very, very kind. Please remember though, this is not a hotel.

Time to hit the streets. I am looking for one of those wonderful
German Christmas candle things - don't know what it is called. I tried to sketch it and Mr. Klein though I was looking for a helicopter [lol]

All the best. NanaDubo
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :

that is fantastic news!!!!!
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Thanks for the update Nana!

Sorry for the mixup on orthopedic/osteopath.

Yes, having two metals in the mouth is horrible, it causes more to be released because of the galvanic reaction between the two. I know someone who has Lyme but most of her problem is metals. She didn't get sick at all until she got a second type of metal in her mouth. Literally got sick overnight.

I had my amalgams out in 1991 and detoxed how the biological dentists were recommending at the time. I didn't even think about being sick from that point until 2003 when I got the Select Comfort mattress that got moldy. That's how much extra stress either the mercury or the mold put on my immune system, with either stressor I could no longer handle the Lyme.

What I'm saying is, I was unhealthy back in 1991 when I had the amalgams removed. Healthy with some random Lyme symptoms from that point till 2003 when I began my mold exposure.
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
wow, six, so you've traced your most recent symptoms back to the purchase of the moldy bed? that's huge, i think, and just demonstrates again how all these factors work together to depress our immune systems and allow the critters to overtake. it is rarely lyme alone, as GiGi has been saying all these years.
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
Just checking that I can post
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
Well here is the low down on my trip to Pforzheim.

A German aquaintance offered to drive me to see Dr W and to stay there while I was having my treatment. It turned out to be a disaster however. We were staying at a campsite but it was cold and wet. He complained and said he wanted to drive back to Berlin and then come back down for my next treatment. As his driving was erratic to say the least, and I was exhausted by the journey down which he said would take 6 hours but in fact took 11 plus another hour the next morning getting me there just on time for the appointment but no time to shower or freshen up I declined. I had to desperately look for a hotel on a Saturday and could only find one charging 59 euros a night due to the season. He left. I told Dr W about the problem with accomodation at my next appointment. I could not do my dairy, gluten and sugar free diet and there was only a Chinese buffet nearby. After a few days i was really stressed and desperate not having the energy to find a supermarket and having no cooking facilities anyway so I took the fast train back to Berlin. My appointment had been reappointed 8 days after the second one and could not cope any longer. I wrote to cancel my appointment and say why. I thought it easier to communicate this way but now the Dr is complaining that it was impersonal for me to do so and that I did not say what i was doing for them to offer help. I had already told them though.

I am now worse though the chiropractic session I had was of benefit I think.

At the start I was told that normally a medical history would be written out prior to seeing the doctor but as I did not speak German they would not be able to do it. I could have prepared this if i had been told previosly even in German.

The doctor is not good at English, he is limited especially when it comes to something like a consultation. A lot of time was spent with me trying to find the e-mail address of a doctor in the UK who had done darkfield microscopy to find the bacteria. I did not get to tell him about the problems with mercury poisoning in the past apart from the amalgams. He looked at my amalgams, one of which I think leaks but did not tell me it would be best to get them out. Now I think it is imperative to do this. What is the point of trying to reboot the immune system with them in place? I deeply regret this move. I could have been told before hand.

I had the ART testing but was only told that I had a big problem with clamydia - not the sexually transmitted one and have borrelia badly. He said nothing about food allergies and little about my MCS apart from asking if the symptoms of that are worse than the borrelia. Of course i do not know. It seems to me that he is not knowledgeable about the mercury problem.

My complaints about the Dr are as follows, and I have communicated them to him with no success.

I believe that he has made no effort to accomodate English speaking patients because my diagnosis is in German and the results of the blood tests also in German. He has not interpreted them to me because I left. He seems annoyed that i left even though I sent an e-mail which he is claiming he did not receive. I pointed out that Germans speak Englsih as a second language and that English is in fact the business language. My last communication from him is in German and he continues to say that he has no responsibility to try to communicate with me an international patient in English. It has made things very difficult when i am having a dispute with him.

I also said that i was disappointed that there was no help offered to me when i expressed problems with accomodation. I think that it is a poor show when he is making so much money from international patients now that he is not trying to ease that financial burden on them somehow. Good heavens he could easily get a group in one month and treat only them and pay for somehwere rented or at least organise it for them.

I will now have to start again in Berlin and have asked that he reduce my consultation fee because of this and also my blood test interpretation as i will have to ask another doctor to do this but he is not budging. He says it was my choice to come to him and my choice to leave.

There is also a question of being charged twice for the infusion material which has not been satisfactorily explained due to the language problem.

One issue which the doctor seems to be annoyed over is that at my second appointment i was given all of my medications by the pharmasist and took them with me to my hotel instead of leaving them with him. I usually do not leave things with other people especially if i pay a lot for them prefering to take responsibility myself.

I feel that the money was wasted and that there has been no effort to negotiate over the bill which has left me not sure what to do. I did tell him that the dispute will be made public and that here are people planning on seeing him in the future. I leave it to you here to judge.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
This is not good... kind of helps me with my decision [Frown]
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
It is also my impression that the BIONIC 880 will work if it is built up slowly and that the reason for the expensive infusions is due to using the machine intensively so that there are a lot of toxins produced. On reflection I wish i could have bought a machine for use at home with another person or 2 to share. I do believe that it is effective.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I'm sorry you are having a dispute and thank you for sharing some of it.

It doesn't change my decision in any way. I expect for the infusions and other treatments he will do to cost money. I don't expect it to be cheap or to have discounts because I'm an international patient.

I don't expect him to take time with me if I'm no longer a patient.

I also don't expect him or his office to help me with lodging difficulties.

I am glad the machine works quickly and that Dr. W has developed a way for it to work.

Again, sorry you are having a dispute. It sounds like much of it should be with your friend. [Smile]
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
what are you being infused with???

I got a little nervous from that post because it seemed like Dr W doesnt explain anything and you cannot understand anything that is being said to you....

Oh Industry... lol
Posted by Gabrielle (Member # 5329) on :

I cannot believe what I read here and - although I don't believe in this Bionic thingy - I feel forced to defend Dr. W. - at least in some points.

1. First, it's not Dr. W.s fault that the weather was cold and wet. Everybody who plans to do camping has to take the weather and the season into account.

2. Second, it's not Dr. W.s fault that you couldn't do your dairy, gluten and sugar free diet. If you need a restricted diet as this one then you have to plan ahead and book a self-catering apartment. I'm on the same diet as you and this is the only way I can travel nowadays - no matter where I go.

3. 59 Euros a night for a hotel is a reasonable price in Germany. But you could have tried the youth hostel - they are cheaper.

4. You said: ``I pointed out that Germans speak English as a second language and that English is in fact the business language.'' AAARRRGGGHH! Yes, some Germans speak English - others don't. We are not obliged by law do do so! English CAN be the business language in international companies. Dr. W. is a German doctor in a German town- he is no industry tycoon! Why on earth should he be obliged to speak perfect English??? Which foreign language do YOU speak fluently?

5. You said: ``he continues to say that he has no responsibility to try to communicate with me an international patient in English''. Yes, absolutely! When you go and see a foreign doctor in his own foreign country then it is solely YOUR responsibility to fix the communication problem.

6. You said: ``I think that it is a poor show when he is making so much money from international patients now that he is not trying to ease that financial burden on them somehow.'' Doctors are NOT in the tourism business. They usually don't take care of your accommodation. But maybe he would have done it if you had asked him BEFORE you came to Pforzheim and give him some time to do it. But again: this is not his job!

After reading your post I must say that your trip was not well planned and you cannot blame anybody else than yourself for that.

As to your other complaints I cannot say anything because I have trouble to understand exactly what happened. Seems that my English is too bad...

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Unexpected, I believe it's magnesium infusions ... maybe glutathione .... stuff to help replenish what the Lyme has taken away. It's part of the treatment. His treatment is not "just" light.

There are also homeopathic products used for detox.

Nana seems to be happy with Dr. W's English though it is his second language. I can understand why Dr. W wouldn't go to the trouble to speak English with someone who is no longer a patient.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
I can't believe Mati's post either. Mati, no matter what else is going on with you, please stop blaming others for your problems (your friend, his bad driving, the weather, and the doctor).

Why should the German doctor, practicing in germany, have to be fluent in English in case international patients come to him, which is basically because of Gigi anyway?

For goodness sake WHY should he have to help you, a stranger, with accomodations???? I've never heard of such a thing. I'd be outraged if I were the doctor.

Camping when you're sick is not a great idea.

If you have a specific diet you need to bring those provisions with you for at least a few days or a week so you are not caught short.

If he starts getting a big flow of English speaking patients perhaps he can hire a bilingual staff person. But who knows if he will get such a flow.

I don't understand the rest of it (double charge for infusion, or what was going on with pharmaceuticals) but your sense of entitlement is off base.

I hope you get better in any case, whatever you try.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
I hope I do not sound unkind but some of what I have read is ridiculous. I would not travel to NY to see Dr. H or to WA to see Kr. K and expect them to find accommodations for me.

Some people here speak English and some do not. I do not think we have any right to expect to be catered to and I am embarrassed when I run across this.

In restaurants I hear Americans trying to order food, thinking that the person waiting on them will or must understand them if they push hard enough.

I find Dr. W's prices reasonable and lower than most doctors I have seen in the US.

I have found that if I am unassuming, polite, and behave as though I am the foreigner here (not the other way around) that I am treated very kindly and have not had one problem.

As six mentioned, a trip like this must be well planned out.

My opinion of Dr.W holds, he is a good doctor, a kind man, sensitive to expenses and in my estimation is not a wealthy doctor. Certainly not a travel agent - sorry.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
I've been communicating with mati in the last few weeks, and I'm at least glad to hear that she thinks the traetment works.

I've also been worried that the intensity and impacted timing of the treatments might be too much for a patient that is really sick. We've been having trouble detoxing for all these years; common sense says our detox pathways would be overloaded if it tried to get rid of everything within a few weeks no?

This isn't to say I'm not willing to try it. I've set an appointment in 3 weeks. I just have my concerns for overburdening the organs, and all the extra infusions sound like they might be put in place as a compensatory measure rather than "support" for the dump of toxins from the bionic treatment.

Not to defend mati's rationale, but I just wanted to say spending thousands to go on a trip to germany has made me feel really on edge since I made the appointment. Unlike you nana, I can't walk around a few miles a day, and my mom who's planning on going with me isn't all that robust either. I'm frankly worried about the food situation.

Also I can understand that frustrations would ensue if we spend thousands on treatments and can't communicate with our doctor & get results of tests back simply because they're lost in translation. Not that the blame should be put on the doctor, but it can certainly create a sense of powerlessness.

I think this dispute is nothing that will change the minds of ppl that are considering seeing him, unless you're looking for coddling and pampering rather than results. And mati herself said the results seem to be good, she just didn't finish the treatment.

So with that said, the best thing to do, it seems, is just leave this alone and move on.

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Joey, I think the walking around miles each day is because of the treatments ... I think that's what's so amazing about nana's progress.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Posting for Nanadubo-

Mati - Although I meant what I said in my post, I would also like to apologize for something. I know that it can be stressful to be far away from home and have difficulty. I do at least want to acknowledge that you had a hard time and I am sorry about that. I have been critical of harsh posts in the past and I do not want to contribute to that. I wish you well. NanaDubo
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Joey, it would be great if you could time your trip with someone from the U.S. who might also be treating so you could have the extra support. I hope that would be the case, its not helpfull to be on edge and treating at the same time.

I feel bad for Mati who hoped for more.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
I notice many stay at the Klein's apartment. Does Mrs. Klein speak English? I know I will need some help getting groceries that are dairy free, gluten free etc. and since I do not live in Europe, preplanning for that will me hard.

So, just wondering if she spoke English to direct me to the correct stores or write the words in German. I don't expect her to do everything for me, of course.

Or, does someone know of an apartment in town that has no wireless connections, so I could stay away from EMF and either walk a short distance to Dr. W or take the bus?

Also, those who have made appointments, did you do it by phone or e-mail? Do you take your supplements with you to Germany?

In my next life I will take German instead of Spanish.

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Yes, she speaks English .... and I believe you can take the bus from her apts. Steel and I are renting a car.

We made our appts. by email.
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
SixGoofy, where will you be posting your trip reports/blog? Best
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Mati, now that I am catching on to this whole scenario: I recall getting a phone call a few weeks ago from Dr. Woitzel's office asking me if I knew to get a hold of a ....... so and so. I didn't even remember the soandso's name name and started to dig into my e-mails (of which there are mannnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyy! It turned out to be you, Mati All I could find is a 3 line e-mail from you asking me for the website of the Bionic, and saying that you want to start a group with an instrument. And my 2-line e-mail to you answering this question and wishing you good luck.

I got this call from Dr. Woitzel's assistant, per his instructions, asking me whether I knew how to find you since you had not shown up for the appointment; they could not find you at the phone number(s) they had and were concerned to leave a message on a recorder (privacy) -- apparently one of the numbers they called answered with recorder. I am not sure exactly whether they called the assistance of the police because they were concerned, but the word "police" was mentioned. I didn't remember offhand who they were talking about, except that they knew I had something to do with your being there.

That's the office and the kind of doctor you are accusing!!! This, your complaints, are not going to fly with me, because nothing even remotely similar ever happened to us during all the weeks we were there, nor have I heard anything similar from any of the other people that have been there from overhere or from the Germans I "interviewed". Every one spoke of a kind and caring doctor and office. Frankly, I think he is the kindest one I ever met - of the many, many who have crossed my path.

They thought that something had happened to you and were very concerned to find you. I don't know what happened after that. There are at least two e-mail addresses for Dr. W., one of which is private and he never has time to answer, at least not on a daily basis.
I had heard nothing further, until I called there today and you apparently mentioned my name also in connection with mercury.

I would suggest you do a little thinking and apologize to the doctor for, first of all, threatening him with telling all of this on the world-wide web and actually having the nerve to do this today. I would further suggest you pay what you owe and then go to a doctor that makes you happy.

Do not keep this up. He is a most caring and compassionate man. If you are unable to handle your private life, do not blame a man and ruin things for the rest of foreign visitors. He is not going to hire an interpretor and most people are understanding and bright enough, even sick, that in Germany the majority of people still speak German. He treats many more Germans than Americans and Englishmen.

As a further explanation to anyone else interested:

It is the practice at Dr. W's that the patient gets a prescription and goes to the apothecary a few steps away from the office and picks up what is needed for possible short infusions after the treatment. Once he has seen a patient, he has a pretty good idea what is needed. That way they do not have to put up a big supply for all sorts of remedies. My husband had to get some; I got none. They are mainly homeopathics assisting to eliminate about 80% of the after-effects of the treatment. It has been done this way for years and it helps. He speaks about this in his power point presentation at every lecture he gives.

Most people have little if any reaction, and a few very toxic people feel more after the treatment. Let me assure you, it is not an ongoing herxheimer for days. The first or sometimes the second evening one feels more. My husband felt nothing, even after having registered high on the Lyme scale (Biocom).

So the patient brings the few goodies to the office for infusion. Most apothecary prices are the same in all of Germany. The patient pays the apothecary. It is, if I remember,approx. 60 Euros, if that much, for the total infusion stuff. It is neither an actual mag nor a glutathione infusion as are done here in many places. If an intensive detoxing is expected, depending on the conditon of the patient which Dr. W. can readily assess, he does other therapies in between the treatments. Ozone is one of them. My husband had several of them.

The patient also gets a prescription for some other homeopathics to be used during the whole stay and afterward. Simply organ supports. Patient walks over to the apothecary and pays there for it. No other meds, because the photons are starting to do their work.

The doctor charges a fee for the time and material used for the infusion. You have got to have the bottles, the hoses, the bed to lay on and a doctor and/or nurse to find a vein - which is probably the longest ordeal for most that have had years of abx and infusions. Not the doctor's fault, but it is his and the nurses' time. Somebody has to pay for an office to exist. The prices are most reasonable and the office is clean and simple in an older city building, without air conditioning. It's got windows you can open! We were very comfortable there even in 90 degree temp.

Again, we left the infusion supply at the office to be ready for us to get after the photon treatment. The girls have time to prepare the infusion and do not have to hunt around for replacements if the patient has forgotten to bring it in, or managed to ruin them by leaving them in a hot car or next to EMF exposure. It is a very important part of the treatment and it makes sense to me. Mistrust is totally out of place .

No, the official language in Germany has been German and no matter how many Americans or people come from the UK, it remains German for least a few more centuries, I hope. German language and German culture cannot be separated. It pays to learn at least to say hallo or at least make an effort to, even if it sounds Polish. If you don't feel comfortable with that, please go to a doctor who speaks English. I fully agree with Nano's comments about people in restaurants, or in stores.

I know that the girls there were contemplating taking a refresher course in English! Go and expect that from an American or English doctor who treats foreign people. In fact, they were practicing English with me while I was there. Especially the nurses -- I had to interpret everything nurses say while they are trying to put a needle into the patient's arm.
It was sort of fun.

No, Mati, give this a few thoughts. Apologize for your publishing this on the internet and for the comments you made to the doctor. Threats don't usually work well. Pay the office what you owe and be on your way. We all want to keep the doctor's goodwill because he deserves it. This is in extremely bad taste on your part.

We are all lucky to have a doctor who cares as much and, most of all, had enough courage to develop this successful treatment into something that really wipes out Lyme. By the way, I was told today, that the photons keep working weeks afterward. I know they do --- looking at my walking husband!

Take a dictionary! Pick an old used one up at Goodwill if you can't afford it.
Take a dictionary to France - you will not hear a word of English there - they are proud of their language. And Mrs. Klein at the Gaestehaus speaks English with her hands, her mouth sometimes, her gestures, and her heart! I don't think she has enough time to write down a German grocery list! She keeps a clean house and takes care of the garden. And her husband fixes and repairs. I had a dead battery -- I left the light on in our car the late afternoon before we were to take off early in the morning to fly home. I panicked - where is the next gas station??? He said - just give me the key - I will take care of it. By the time I got out to the car in the early daylight, he had recharged my battery - quietly -

And if you want to really help your body to get well, stay in a place where you can cook your own foods, be taken around by your hostess and shown all the favorite supermarkets, and stay in a spanking clean and most comfortable place with the cleanest beds ever - go to the Gaestehaus. She literally, as most Germans do, boil their laundry/linen at 95C - water boils at 100C!

Do not stay in a hotel in the city unless you can afford the top line, because in good old Germany, Sunday is still a day of rest; the city sidewalks are rolled up on the weekend and it is as dead as a doornail. No or very few stores are open --- So at least stay at a place where you have a lovely countryside, a restaurant or two or three, fresh air, and a place to really recover until the next treatment. Grocery stores close much earlier - at least by 8 PM. Eating out, living without a kitchen, gets real old hat after the second day away from home - at least for me. Restaurant food - what's in it? At which factory was it prepared? During that time, your body is working overtime and you need all the support with good food, good water, etc. You pay for every 4 oz of water in a restaurant! There is no glass of water for free in any restaurant. You pay 1.50 Euro for an 8oz bottle of water in a restaurant - no matter which one.

My husband and I are able to do things we do because I learned early in life to be thrifty. I have researched many of the vacation apartments in the whole area surrounding Pforzheim, and the Gaestehaus is by far the best place to stay. You can either rent a car in town or take the bus or train into town to see the doctor. Trains run everywhere and often all over Germany and Europe! Taking the bus to the doctor is inexpensive and much easier on the Lymed nerves.

The Black Forest is mountainous terrain - so if you want to bike, you need to be in good shape. Buses and trains run always. And it is getting wintery.

Take care.

P.S. I have no time to re-read this - if it sounds harsh - so be it. I get very upset when I read stories like this on the internet, when it simply is one person's input and clearly in an effort to damage someone's reputation. If the intent is to warn people, it can be done privately in a very clean manner.

P.P.S. Medical and Dental prices are set by and controlled by a governmental agency and the doctor has to stay within certain ranges. It is a different story if you go do a completely private clinic for alternative treatment, etc. But no one is left behind for standard medical treatment. Only privately insured
(usually professional and self-employeds) are covered by some of the type of treatment Dr. W. does; most people pay out of pocket for at least the Bionic treatment. He treats all types of patients. If I lived there, he would be my PCP. Myoreflex therapy is now covered I think in Italy and some other countries. Don't know exactly which ones. Germans are working to get this type treatment covered by the German medical insurors. I am not totally up on the finer details, but I have never heard any member of my family living in Germany complain about not getting what they needed, even for repeated and frequent hospital stays or any medical treatment that is standard medicine.

[ 02. October 2008, 04:33 AM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
i am sorry if this info has already been posted, but i have a few basic questions regarding the stay in germany for treatments with dr woitzel...

these questions are meant to be asked in general

1) how long to people tend to need to stay there/how long for treatments, again, in general?

2) how much, aside from airfare, does it tend to cost for treatments + gaesthaus? that is also assuming i would not be renting a car.

3) does the gaesthaus have kitchenettes so you can cook your own food?

4) is the health food store easily accessible?

5) regarding the emf exposure- if we are not allowed to use wireless phones nor wireless computers, how do we communicate with our loved ones back home?

6) does the emf exposure include ipods (not iphones)? i have an ipod that does have wireless capability, but i leave the wireless connection turned off. i think, that being there for a month or so, i might go nuts if i don't at least have some music to listen to.

7) what tends to be in the way of the 5% of patients that are not cured?

i am seriously considering going over. even if it's winter. but i have to budget things out because even though my treatments here with my llmd would end up costing too much money and too much is a big commitment going over there for treatment. i have been to germany already for medical treatments, but that was for 10 days total, and i was with my fiancee, and my surgeon spoke great english, and i stayed in munich, where it is easy to find stuff to do and get around.

btw, how far of train or bus ride is it to munich? how about stuttgart?

thanks a lot for your advice!

john in ny state
Posted by ItCantBeTrue (Member # 17151) on :
Stupid question:

Can the Bionic 880 be purchased an used without going all the way to Germany?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
1) how long to people tend to need to stay there/how long for treatments, again, in general?

Three weeks.

2) how much, aside from airfare, does it tend to cost for treatments + gaesthaus? that is also assuming i would not be renting a car.

I'm not sure, but I believe Dr. W is 2-3000 depending on the person. Each person is different.

The Gaesthaus cost depends on the room you get. Go to the website and take a look. It looks to be very nice. [Smile]

3) does the gaesthaus have kitchenettes so you can cook your own food?

Yes. The larger rooms have kitchens, the smaller, kitchenettes.

4) is the health food store easily accessible?

I don't know. I believe you can get there by bus from what NanaDubo has said.

5) regarding the emf exposure- if we are not allowed to use wireless phones nor wireless computers, how do we communicate with our loved ones back home?

You can go to the internet cafe in Pforzheim. Nana said they may be providing one wire in the guest house for visitors to use, but that is not a sure thing, right now Nana is using the internet cafe.

6) does the emf exposure include ipods (not iphones)? i have an ipod that does have wireless capability, but i leave the wireless connection turned off. i think, that being there for a month or so, i might go nuts if i don't at least have some music to listen to.

I don't know.

7) what tends to be in the way of the 5% of patients that are not cured?

Again, I don't know.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Originally posted by SForsgren:
SixGoofy, where will you be posting your trip reports/blog? Best

I'm not sure yet. I will post a link before I leave, most likely on this thread.

GiGi, I have been listening to German tapes. [Smile] I might know ten words before I go over, LOL!
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
So how much would the total cost be??

Treatment, guesthouse, airfair, Etc????

If I were to go It would be with my fiance and daughter (I have no one to stay with my daughter) My son would stay with my grandparents.... hypothetically IF I considered going.

Is this a 10,000$ trip????

What is the website for the guesthouse?
Thank you!!
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
The guest house website -

Costs vary depending on room, airfare, etc., so I can't give you a total cost. [Smile] My air fare was about $800.
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
plane ticket 800
place to stay 500
treatment 2500
rental car no idea...guess 1000..i'm going with 3 people so the cost should be much cheaper

food for 3 weeks guess...
100 bottles of wine at diner add up quick [woohoo]
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
How many Bionic 880 treatments did Mati have before she left?
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Thanks six!! That link is not working [Frown]

May I ask what airline you are using/who you went through??

Do you have any articles you could throw my way about the efectivness of biophotons?... I am having trouble finding stuff on google.

I have been talking with my mom and fiance about this and they think if there is enough evidence that this can work to some degree... They want me to go... And my mom has been very distanced from me with my illness.. and she LIVES with me! lol

so for her to be supportive of doing something like this is HUGE! She also thinks it is avery plausible idea!... my mom is skeptical of EVERYTHING.... I am also VERY skeptical... I ahve been through alot of "miracle" cures since I have becoame sick.

I am still worried about it being able to help someone who is at 10% functioing VS someone who is 70% or more....

Thanks!! [Smile]
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
shandy send me an email at [email protected]

I can send u my airline reservation info since u would most likely fly out of logan airport..
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Shandy, I'm flying Delta Airlines. Try the link again, the first one I posted didn't work, but it works now.

There is simply not much on the Bionic 880 online. Here's a good article about light -
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Originally posted by UnexpectedIlls:

I am still worried about it being able to help someone who is at 10% functioing VS someone who is 70% or more....

Thanks!! [Smile]

My husband told me I underestimate how badly I'm doing on a bad day. I generally say I vary from 70% - 98% .... he said 45% - 98% is more accurate. [Smile] It's still better than 10% ....
Posted by Alv (Member # 15192) on :
Sixgoofy !

Do you have to be off antibiotics or supplements completly before you start treatment ...If so HOW long ?

Can you at least take IMMUNE BOOSTERS and cleansers ?

Any input will be apreachiated...

I am more concern about the one that have bartonella and babesia activated -they come back preaty fast.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I was told by Dr. W. to get off my Malarone and Lariam one week before going. I don't know if it's the same for antibiotics. I was told herbs were fine.

As it ends up, the mold exposure made me too nauseous for the meds and I will have been off them for a couple weeks before. I just started taking my herbs again after having been off them, too, for a couple weeks.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
steel will be sending email!!

Six can I have Dr W email so I can contact him???

Thank you
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
[email protected]
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I think it's unrealistic to expect that if you go to a foreign country for treatment - that they are going to plan out your trip.

You really have to do the planning on your own. It's alot of work but we are visiting them... If you feel you need a translator, you should make the arrangements prior.

Being in a place where English is not the language can be difficult. You can't expect everyone to speak "your" language. Going to a foreign country for medical care can be stressful. You need to plan it out well on your own.

If you make bad travel plans, I don't think it's the doctor's fault. You really need to have the money to do this properly. I'm sorry that someone here had a problem but you have to make proper arrangements.

You can't go to a foreign country & expect that everyone is going to be helpful. Some people are very nice but you have to do the research & make sure you have everything planned out.

I've been to Europe alot. You need to have an itinerary, extra money, know a bit of the language, etc. It's more involved if you are going for medical help where you may need a special diet, be able to understand the doctor, understand the customs of the treatment protocol, etc.

You really have to plan something like this out. If you are ill, it takes even more planning.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
I had emailed Dr. W before coming here that I would be stopping antibiotics three weeks before I left and he said that was fine. I ended up stopping 4-5 weeks prior to leaving.

I am thankful for having had a car for the first two weeks. It was nice to be on my on schedule rather than the bus and train schedule. You can get where you want to go with the trains but it was just a personal choice.

I have gotten along fine this last week without a car but would have preferred to have one the whole time. Renting a car in Pforzheim was about 400 Euro for 2 weeks.

The health food store is about a half hour drive from the Klein's guesthouse.

Dr. W's office is about a 20 minute drive.

I no longer have lyme [spinning smile]

As soon as I let the notion and feelings settle in, I will write more.

Similar to six, I think I gave my self more credit in terms of how well I was or was not than my friends and family did.

I have been through a lot on this journey and just need some time. I feel very good.

Those of you headed this way, let me know if I can help.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Nana!! That is great!

BUT how can you be sure you no longer have lyme??? I mean do blood tests confirm this??? I dont want to take away from your excitment in ANY way... but I cant help but wonder... especially if I consider going.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Unexpected, blood tests can only confirm exposure. There is no blood test that will show whether you do or do not have Lyme. Dr. W. uses energetic testing. It's a hard concept to understand, for sure, but once you have it done, it's very convincing.

For example, my daughter was getting some twitching. I told her to hold her arm out and I energetically tested her for magnesium. As soon as I had her hold the magnesium, her arm became very weak. She was very curious as to why it became weak as I had not told her anything about what I was doing in advance. (That's not enough details to energetically test .... just enough to understand the story).

So, Nana no longer tests for having borrelia in her body. That's how it's determined whether you are Lyme-free or not.

BTW NanaDubo [woohoo] [woohoo] [woohoo] [woohoo]

Just a note - I have been receiving a lot of PM's as the time gets closer for me to go. As always, I'm happy to answer everyone's questions. However, many of the questions are the same, so if you can, please post them on this thread. I realize some of you are not wanting others to know you are considering this treatment .. in that case, feel free to PM ... but otherwise, please don't think you're question is not appropriate for this thread.

Also, I will be turning off my PM feature when I leave for Germany. I will probably check this thread while I'm gone and I will keep you posted by blog (which I haven't decided where to have it yet .... waiting to see if someone gets a website up and running, as I'd like to use it ... hubby is also talking about getting me a personal website).
Posted by Vermont_Lymie (Member # 9780) on :

Have a great time and enjoy the experience in Germany!

Their bread is the best in the world (beer too, but I guess that is definitely off the menu), so if you can handle the gluten, enjoy the food too!

Please let us know where you will be blogging; I will read about your trip with great interest. Be well.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Six, Thank you for that explaination!!

I am just confused as to HOW you can be free of lyme when everything we know tells us that we CANNOT be rid of it ever....

It gets very confusing for me... I dont know, I am happy for Nana though!
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
I'm so happy for you! hurrah!!!

I appreciate all of your updates, I think we are all excited with your progress in such a short time, it's nothing short of amazing!

take care,
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Unexpected, that's why we're looking for alternatives to abx ... we KNOW the best we can get with abx is remission. [Wink]

Vermont, I can eat gluten now .... but I know Dr. W tests you for foods you can't eat through treatment, with my past gluten intolerance, I am fully expecting not to be able to eat it while I'm there. [Frown] Hopefully, towards the end. [Wink]
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
i know someone asked this before, but i do forget things and am kind of a spaz...

how much is the bionic 880 if you get one over there, and can you buy it through dr woitzel's office to bring home?

if not, can you have it shipped to his office?

thanks a lot, again

Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Just wondering, does anyone know how long Nana has had Lyme? I'm awaiting lab results, but pretty sure I have it, tested postive with electrodermal testing, ect. If I get a positive with IGENEX, then I will know that this is what has been wrong for the past 12 years. Will the Machine take longer to get the Lyme out for someone who has had it for over a decade?

Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
I posted earlier that I was planning on seeing Dr. W on Oct. 23rd, but I'm sad to announce I'm most likely going to push back my appointment.

I feel hesitant to announce how I came to this decision, but I hope you'll all keep an open mind.

I started seeing a Dr. B--a chiro--that does NAET & muscle-testing a few weeks ago. She works very closely with Dr. H, and he puts a lot of faith in her work. She has been testing me for sensitivities to supplements & ABx, as well as which ABx work or don't work for for borrelia and the co-infections. Dr. H has been more than willing to work with her recommendations in fine-tuning his antibiotic regimen.

With that said, she muscle-tested me on Tuesday to see if I was ready to get treatment with 880nm light in 3 weeks, and the answer was a clear no. That was without doing further research on the bionic.

Then in the last 2 days, she watched the video I sent her on the bionic 880 & told me she is very knowledgeable about this "entrainment therapy". In physics, entrainment is the process whereby two interacting oscillating systems assume the same period, and that is what the bionic 880 creates between the organism & the light frequency.

Today, she muscle-tested me again with this knowledge in hand, and she said I wouldn't be ready until the last week of November at the earliest.

Some of you may scoff at how much weight I put in her energetic testing. I would have too a few months ago. I've seen my share of charlatans & money-grubbers & become jaded, but she is clearly as good & as well-respected as they get in this field. She thinks we need to spend the weeks before I go detoxing because my body has a genetic weakness in detoxing (she didn't know this, but my HLA-DR is multisusceptible, so yes i have major trouble detoxing). She was afraid that if I went in a few weeks, my body wouldn't be equipped to remove the pathogens the bionic treatment knocks out.

IMHO, this addresses some of the concerns that Shandy and others have had about the readiness of patients that are well below the 70-80% wellness that gigi, six, and nana are hovering around, for the bionic treatment. And frankly, I would think that if you subjectively think you're at that range, you must be feeling pretty good regardless of what the friends & family say. After all, we know our bodies the best. I would say I'm still at 50%-60% functionality, so for me, doing another 2 full months of detox work before the treatment makes sense.

This is just my opinion, and I'm sure some will flout the rationale behind my decision, but it's objective enough for me. Dr. B believes by going in november of later, I'll be able to knock out the borrelia once & for all. I think so too.

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Well, Joey, I was looking forward to meeting you over there. [Smile]

I'm glad you're still planning on going. It makes sense that you would want to detox what's already a problem before you go. That is why I was so glad to have found the mold and to be able to take care of that prior to leaving .... it's one less thing to handle over there. Today is my first day off painkillers in a couple weeks time. [Smile]

I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm feeling pretty good .... I'm just not feeling as bad ..... if that makes sense. I have felt pretty good, but not lately.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Joey, your decision sounds good and wise. Your practitioner(s) sound excellent.

Six goofy it will be interesting to hear your report.

Re borrelia gone or not, who knows. If you feel good, that's what counts. Maybe energetic testing reveals whether or not the borrelia is active.
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
Have not had time to write as I traveled back home today from Germany.

I felt that I had a duty to inform others who are thinking of going. My intention was not to slag off the doctor, I thought I simply reported what happened . However, I did expect to be pulled over the coals by those who will not tolerate anyone who has doubts or who questions anything here.

Nothing has been said regarding my concerns that I was not told to wait to get my amalgams out before starting treatment and that I very easily may have wasted the money for this reason alone. Has anyone been advised that they are doing it too soon I wonder. I had other worries about my adrenal glands but I felt that was waived aside.

I think that what is becoming clear is that if one is a straightforward case then things are different. And of course those who have improved and were satisfied with things say positive things. I am not satisfied however, and even if my views that doctors who are making a lot of money from their patients and have the ability to help with accomodation problems for international patients through knowing the area and having many contacts especially if one of those patients runs into problems, is off the wall, then that should not mean that my other concerns can be brushed aside. As for the language problem you have to know Germany to understand just how accepted it is for them to speak English in business matters and anyone who is running a clinic is in business. My own German landlord is extremely embarrassed and sorry that he cannot speak much English when dealing with me, but we manage as I do speak a little.

Well I knew I would get grilled. Thankyou for the person who has a little sympathy for me now that I am worse. The doctor is dealing with some very sick patients I presume from what others are saying. In many cases there will not be the need of help to enable people to have his treatment. In serious cases, I think it is pretty hard if a doctor is not willing to go beyond the line of duty. But maybe this is a cultural thing. Maybe this is how it is in the US, if you have money then you can pay and you don't expect any help from a fellow human being. It is not like this in England where I know a doctor who takes some very sick patients into her house to treat them and I have been treated myself for free at a time when I had no money.

I gave the doctor a chance to negotiate with me but he says I must communicate now in German. I said I would put my experiences in public which I have already said I felt a duty to do so. I think there are some serious questions about when a patient is ready for treatment and are in a place where they can respond. I had 2 treatments and felt nothing apart from an improvement in my wrist pain which leads me to think that the treatment is effective. Another thing I noticed is that my small red dots on my skin went really dark red during treatment with the BIONIC.

I think that caution is needed till more very ill people report back.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Mati, You are worse now than before you left?
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
Yes the pain in my wrist and arm are worse, I can barely use my arm now. It did improve then it got worse. My knee joints are worse too. For a couple of days last week i had trouble walking, they have never been as bad.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Gigi what is in the Biologo Detox? How much does it cost roughly?

Thank you,

Posted by Looking (Member # 13600) on :
Mati, sorry you didn't get what you hoped from the treatment.

I think it is beneficial to know that if one can't complete the treatments entirely, that there is a risk of feeling worse, so thanks for sharing that.

I wonder if it's similar to not completing a course of antibiotics so all you do is activate the lyme and make it worse.

I wouldn't go unless I had ensured I could complete all necessary treatment.

And if you do have a doctor in England who personally cares for patients in her own home, that is an extremely rare thing -- I know of none where I am who would do that.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I don't know why he would have told you to wait till you had your amalgams out if he didn't think it was necessary for treatment. Nana didn't have hers out and did fine with treatment.

Again, I am sorry for your bad experience. You are right, here in the US we do not expect to have that kind of help from a doctor. In the US we expect to have to do our own trip planning.

I don't know what you mean by very ill patients. I am still disabled by this disease, so I am far from healthy. Yes, I have good days and I have even had days where I have a normal energy level and can be normal. I have even had extended periods like that.

More recently, whether it be the mold exposure and the detox from now being away from the mold, or whether it be from being off antibiotics for a couple months, I feel bad. I estimated myself to be about 70%, but my husband says I'm a dreamer, that it's more like 45%.

I was about 90% right up until I got rid of the mold about three weeks ago. For three days I felt 100%, then I dropped to where I am now. There was a clear relation between getting rid of the mold and my decline. I also have the reaction to cholestyramine that Dr. S mentions on that a Lyme patient will have.

Why do I estimate 70%? Because the "only" symptoms I am having are pain and fatigue. The laundry list of symptoms is gone. I am doing significantly better. Also, I can get up and fix myself something to eat, go to the store, drive the kids somewhere, but generally speaking, when I'm home, I'm lying down. That is my preferred place to be - on the couch or in bed. I am pretty constantly in pain and on painkillers.

I have hit 98% twice during treatment and maintained it for a time ... even a couple months.

This time my decline coincided with getting rid of that mold .... there is a clear relation between the two.

I am telling this information so that all of you have an accurate picture of where I really am in my treatment. If you have questions about it, please ask.

If I see the same results as NanaDubo, I will consider this the miracle treatment.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Mati, whats done is done, money spent and lost, forget about it. I'm really sorry you had these issues. I also think Dr. W. has a protocol that is uniquely helpful for removing lyme and it will show out in the end.

I also don't as group it would be useful to point fingers at Mati on this. Instead lets take a more helpful take at it. Lets try to understand Mati's situation and try to better advise through it.

I know from my history the dental side is crucial. I posted my experience in another thread about amalgam removal. Also drainage to ensure kidneys, liver, spleen and pancreas are clear. With that in mind Mati seek out a biologic dentist that can cover these areas. As well as cavitations and TMJ disorders. This will take some research on your part.

I haven't done the bionic yet, but I know in my case the bionic would not have put me in remission until the dental portion was taken care of, that I'm sure of. According to my DDS and Doctor my TMJ was severe and the severity was caused by 4 cavitations and the cavitations were exascerbated by having mercury amalgams for way too many years.

One cavitation took me 8 weeks to heal, thats how toxic it was.

And hopefully everyone agrees we should help support Mati through this.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I agree with you Bob. I think for whatever reason maybe the fact that many of us have Lyme we jump all over each other too readily here and sometimes say things we should not or later regret. We can point things out without making anyone feel raked over the coals.

Just maybe this disease will have some sort of good influence on all of us in the long run and teach us all some more compassion for other humans no matter what they are saying or where they are coming from.

None of us are perfect yet or even come close to it.
Posted by Ticktoxic (Member # 6876) on :
All the evidence points to this Tx as worthless! Clancy's husband got worse and the thread was removed. There are German threads that talk about how this Tx doesn't work, yet there still remain some Believers that keep pushing this nonsense.

Now there is another poster that reports failure with this Bionic light hocus pocus. This post will probably be removed like any other negative comments keep getting deleted, but hopefully some people will read it before it's gone and will not waste their time and money on this thing.

Amalgams, heavy metal issues, and all the rest of the explanations as to why this Tx fails is nothing more than excuses. If it worked, then it would work no matter what. Many have got well without detox, amalgam removal, or any of the other things that these crooks use as reasons for Tx failure.

Sixgoofykids, I hope that you give this Tx a fair evaluation which would mean getting off of all abx. There's no doubt in my mind that you will go downhill rather quickly if you do. It would be great if you do get your own website so that you will be able to tell the truth about your experience without it being deleted by the people that control this website.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I have to agree, Bob, that dental issues are critical.

I didn't have to have the same work as you, but I had my TMJ fixed as well. Mine was a matter of wrong placement. I went through three years of dental work to get it fixed - splint, then braces.

Also, I had my amalgams out back in 1991. It's not that I don't think it's necessary .... I was just saying that if Dr. W didn't think it was, then he wouldn't have brought it up. [Smile] Nana, plans on doing dental work when she gets back, but she did do well with treatment while she was over there. (I'm so excited for her I can hardly stand it, LOL).

I hope nothing I have said has been construed as being critical of Mati. [Smile]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
With only two Bionic880 photon treatments, it would seem to me from all I have heard, also from other doctors using the photons, that the treatment is incomplete. Probably, the pathogens were activated with the first and second and then stopped before the job could be finished. I imagine it's like doing half a surgery, I imagine. It is no surprise that the doctor was trying to find his lost patient calling half around the world!

But it seems to me is a clear indication that the photons work (as if I had ever doubted it!) In fact I saw it work on my own body when I played with the instrument on my sick foot and got a bull's eye a couple of hours later, even though I had been well for many years. It helped me to get rid of some residue hiding under my big toe, I guess.

I also learned early on that once the Lyme nosodes are on the body, the photons have to be applied right away also. Several factors are at work.

Take care.

I would like to also clear up that lab tests are done before and after the treatment. Unless this has changed. One is an LTT test and another one is a serological test (the latter one is quite expensive and we turned it down; the LTT test is most reasonable). I am not going into details why this is done alongside the energetic testing, it's best to find out from the doctor's office.

The energetic testing is done or was done when we were there with a Biocom 2000. You can google and probably find a photo of one. Things change, doctors change or get different ideas. So that's the way it was in July when we were there.

I did not see Dr. W. muscle testing. or any other form of kinesiology. For a quick check he uses the Biotensor. This is where I turned on to using it -- it is a great self help tool -- I watched him getting these quick answers to questions he had, and I wish I had learned it years ago when I was first introduced to it by a Klinghardt therapist. Now I use it daily.

Take care.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
I am very concerned about what Ticktoxic and Mati have to say and hope that this is taken into consideration... I know I like to look at ALL ends of this and not just the "it works"...

I am saddend that this has made 2 people WORSE... [Frown]

I really wanted to believe in this.... I am not so sure now.. I will keep an eye out on others experiences.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Ticktoxic, I am posting elsewhere about my treatment over there, but not for fear of it being deleted, but rather that I want to be able to point family, friends, etc. there and at the same time be able to point all of you to it as well. I also don't want it to be a discussion and there is no blog feature on this website.

And, just to clarify, Clancy's husband is doing much better. He is having the work done here (by that doctor that starts with an "o", LOL, Lyme brain, I can't remember what it's called). Nana know's Clancy and I'm sure she'll pass on any info that Clancy is willing to share.

I AM off all antibiotics. I have been since July. I have gone downhill, lest you think I don't really have Lyme. [Wink] I have a CDC positive WB (IgG, 8 bands).

I take no offense at your negative opinion. [Smile] But, let's be accurate ... Mati was not a treatment failure any more than someone who ended abx too early would be. Mati did not finish the treatment.

So far we have GiGi's husband - miraculous cure

Clancy's husband - improving, still off abx

NanaDubo - cured, she feels "very good"

Mati - quit treatment due to non-medical related issues
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I am sorry about the mix up I've made with energetic testing and muscle testing .... I was using the two inter-changeably. Thanks for clearing that up GiGi.
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Orthopedic doctor I think you mean, Six! I've had a terrible time remembering words today too!

take care!

Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Gigi's husband-----what symptoms is he experiencing now?

I really just want to hear about symptoms, how you *feel*, at this point, not what you feel it is due to. If you test positive for lyme and you're healthy as an ox, running marathons, the picture of vitality, who cares if you were exposed to lyme as your body is handling it?

If you feel you are negative for lyme but have all kinds of symptoms that you feel are due to heavy metals or fungi, anyway, I'd just like to know about the SYMPTOMS.

It sounds like Nana needed her appendix out anyway and for that alone this trip and good doctors were very useful.
Posted by Ticktoxic (Member # 6876) on :
Hey Six

I'm glad to hear that you are giving it a fair test! I do not doubt that you have Lyme, even before your report.

I would guess that Nanu is still doing other Tx? Plus people should know that Dr W does multiple Tx protocols on his Lyme patients, one of them being IV ozone, which is very effective against Lyme. There would not be any reason to do these other back-up Tx's if the 880 did work.

Clancy's husband is probably back on abx too? And he probably did get some benefits out of the IV ozone and other non Bionic 880 Tx's. Good luck with your trip!
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
No, I said Orthopedic doctor a couple pages ago and was corrected! [lol] Osteopath, maybe???

Ticktoxic, my understanding is that Clancy's husband is NOT on abx. Nana would have to confirm that though.

Nana also was NOT on abx, just did Dr. W's treatment. She is now finished and leaves Germany soon, so her supportive therapies are also now finished.

If IV ozone were enough on its own to cure Lyme, surely people would be using it and getting healed. The treatments he uses are for support, to help eliminate toxins, etc. Most of us do this kind of thing in conjunction with abx or other treatment protocols anyway. It doesn't mean the abx don't work.

O2babe, are you asking me about symptoms? Pain - shoulders, neck, back, all left sided (I have "fibromyalgia"). Also, once in a while knee pain and headache. Weakness. Fatigue. Insomnia (though it's getting better). Spleen pain. Air hunger (improving drastically). Loss of appetite. Poor word recall. Nausea.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
TickToxic said "There are German threads that talk about how this Tx doesn't work,"

WHere are these threads?? I want read both sides
Posted by Ticktoxic (Member # 6876) on :

This is a thread that has the info translated from German German Thread on 880 Click Here

Here is the thread on Lymenet that has probably the same info Lymenet Thread-Click Here

Yo Sixy

There are alternative Dr's that are having great success with IV ozone as a stand alone Tx against Lyme. The problem with it is that it doesn't work against some of the aerobic infections that most people get with and Bart; just like HBOT (Hyperbaric) fails against these aerobic pathogens.
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Oh, whoops [bonk] I first thought osteopath and thought, 'nah most of them are regular MD's nowadays, probably an ortho doc!

Glad he's getting help and I feel confident that this technology will help six and whoever else may be going over at the same time!

Also, I was positive with a Bionic machine with the dermal testing last year, so I probably definitely have Lyme?! I am sure I do, but got tested from IGENEX just to see and waiting for results. It's my family who poo pooh's that I have Lyme, my dad especially, just thinks I'm tired from the kids and anxiety is caused by worrying.


again, so happy for nana's progress, yah!!!!

Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Ticktoxic -- as far as the LNE crowd who cares, not one of them as offered a single thought on how to get rid of lyme beyond ABX -- imo. And the german post is pretty valueless imo. It doesn't really state pro or con to any depth. If you go to the updated thread same post, they are off trying to buy an 880.

LNE would rather spend their precious time bashing lymenetters. Their choice, pretty sad and pathetic in my estimation.

As far as proof of LED use in healing, there is just way too much positive clinical evidence of it. Just take some time and look, just google "nasa LED" or try this link for size:

Now ticktoxic with this one link, I've proven light as healing modality. I want to see a specific counter argument. And yes I'm challenging YOU to show me a scientific study, not your opinion it doesn't work. Actually take the link to LNE, let them debate over it. Maybe it would give them something useful to do for a change.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
There was a thread that was translated from Germany about the treatment and it didn't work for those that used it.... That has GOT to be taken into consideration...

I don't think excuses should be made for WHY it didn't work, but just that It DIDN'T work. This could be very harmful for many, by giving out false information and false hope.

I am not disagreeing that this works at all... I just think some need to be careful with saying that this is 100% cure for lyme disease. As far as we all know there is NO cure and certainly no cure in 3 weeks time. I would love for someone to prove me wrong, but for now I think I have made my decision not to waste my family's money.

So far I ahve read more negative reports than positive, and feel that the negative stuff just gets tossed to the wind as if it didnt happen... there is a red flag.

I wish everyone the very very very best with getting this done in Germany!! [Smile]
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Do you have a link to a thread with evidence that it doesn't work Unexpected? I'm wondering because I have seen claims it doesn't, but never by someone who tried it and had it fail.

I read all I could prior to making my decision.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Six I read the link provided by Ticktoxic... It is a little ways down on the page. I know you have read everything you can, and I trust you and your judgement.

Actually on that thread one said it made them much worse even after using it for a while [Frown]
Posted by Ticktoxic (Member # 6876) on :

I totally agree that infrared light has some healing properties, but the healing power that it has proven so far for has only been for what I would call minor injuries such as skin burns, skin cancer, some eye injuries, and even hair loss.

IR light does not have the power or capability to penetrate more than about 1/2 inch below the skin. There are varying opinions on how far exactly it can go; the makers of FAR IR saunas will claim that it can penetrate up to 3 inches in some cases, but they don't produce any valid research to support their claims.

Believe what you want, but all the claims that the Bionic 880 works against lyme are pure testimonials. If that's good enough for you, that's fine. I am not a "Believer", and I especially can't stand the way that any negative comments about this device are deleted by the moderators. This behavior wreeks IMO.

As far as the German thread being worthless; I could make that same claim about the supportive threads for the 880 and lightworks that are on Lymenet . I would love to see sixgoofy just get the 880 Tx and skip the other 4 or 5 modalities that Dr W uses. This would be a true test. I'm sure that she will see some initial improvement from the IV ozone that will give her a false impression of success.

There probably is some benefit from the 880 Tx's as far as detox or immune support, just like there is from IR saunas, but photons do not have the ability to destroy Borrelia, Bartonella, Mycoplasma, or Babesia organisms, and they surely will not penetrate far enough into the body and all the vital organs to get at all the pathogens even if they could destroy them.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Oh, yes, I read that. Two on that thread who didn't get better. One got worse but said it wasn't necessarily the machine.

No one is discounting or ignoring the evidence. We are just discussing the treatment modality. Some of us are trying it out. I don't see how this discussion is harmful. All Lyme therapy is experimental.

No one claims it has a 100% cure rate as you mention.

If you are seeing red flags, then maybe it's not right for you.

It's not a hardship for me to go over there and have the treatment done. If I were in the situation where it was a hardship, I would still be waiting to see the results for more people I know.

So far, to me, it looks promising. I'm willing to give it a try and I'm very hopeful.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
For the record, the moderators are not the ones deleting the threads about the 880 .... it's the people who started the threads.

I would never consider going all the way to Germany to only get the Bionic treatment and not the supportive therapies. Dr. W has come up with a system that works, and I'm going there to be treated. I'm not going over there to prove whether it does or does not work. I am going over there in hopes I get better.

The information you state about penetration is inaccurate.

Here is a Pubmed study about infrared light being used to treat Parkinson's. I don't think you could describe Parkinson's as a minor injury.

The link Bob posted talks about the light and how it works. It also mentions that there will be MS studies in addition to the Parkinson's studies.

Please post accurate information. It's a waste of everyone's time to have the correct the inaccuracies.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
There is a person documented from Ohio who had alzheimers went to the U.K. and was treated for alzheimers. 3 weeks after treatment he went from not able to handle a fork and knive to again functional enough to drive a car. Unless you believe alzheimers is just a minor injury, I would say that is significant. Not the 880 but the power of LED technology.

I believe this technology is in it infancy. In other words there is more to discover.

I also talked with a manufacturer who sells a powerfull LED device similar to the bionic 880. He stated the scientist he works with believes based on frequency and output power the LED has a transmission ability of 9 inches into the body.

The science or understanding the science isn't completely understood yet. We need to look to those who have the disposable means to help us find out. And let me ask you TickToxic, if six comes back in remission, would you just think that luck. And by the way, I don't care if there are combo ingredients as part of the solution. If it is a solution leading to remission aren't we all for it?
Posted by Ticktoxic (Member # 6876) on :

It is accurrate info as far as I said, there are varying opinions.

I disagree about the posts and threads deletions. Yes some were deleted by the oringinators, but some were erased completely without a trace, and this is something that only the moderators can do. Just Julie had some negative comments removed by a moderator just last week as far as I know.

My posts are a waste of time? Then don't read them. That's why I usually stay away from reading the Bionic 880 and Lightworks threads.,,,,they are a waste of time IMO. But unfortunately for me, I ventured to take a look at it today and felt a need to warn people who get taken in easily by these sorts of claims. I'm sure that my posts today will be a refreshing change for many that only read, even tho they will infruriate "The Believers"
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Anyone who starts a thread can delete the thread.
Posted by Looking (Member # 13600) on :
You're right Six, I just started a test thread and then deleted it and the whole thing is gone even the title. I looked in my "recent posts" and there is no trace of it.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Well, if you want to try a relatively inexpensive device to see if infrared light is helpful - you can buy an LED array for about $100.

I used the LightWorks for about 2-3 weeks for about an hour a day & had a major herx for about a month. Huge amounts of "stuff" came out through my intestines. I'm now feeling alot better.

I was taking Oxycontin to function everyday prior to using the LightWorks. I no longer have to take it like that.

Also, I had very bad menstrual cramps all of my life. The cramps got at least 60% - 70% better. I no longer have to spend a week in bed taking Vicodin so I could be unconscious during excruciating pain.

I don't know about the Bionic 880... I suspect it's much stronger than the LightWorks. If it is stronger - I think it would produce extreme results - so, it's good to have a doctor who knows how to use it.

From my experience, light does not work in the same way as anything else I've ever tried.

I don't think it's appropriate to pick apart every aspect of this therapy. You can try a smaller device to get an idea of how infrared light works to see for yourself.

I don't see people here picking apart every expensive drug that is taken that has lots of nasty side effects. Most of the drugs I've taken just don't work. I have not taken abx for about a year & I'm not worse due to that.

Everyone is different & responds in a different way to treatments. You just have to try things to see which ones may be beneficial. Nothing is 100%. I don't see that using infrared light should be put through a microscope unless you are willing to do the same with other treatments.

People are not going to just use infrared light & nothing else to satisfy someone's curiosity. It's just not practical. The only thing you can do is try it if you feel it will help.

There are hundreds of studies & some people are getting results. You can test it out yourself by using an LED array or the LightWorks. It's not a question of being a "believer".

I didn't believe or disbelieve. I just tried it & it made a big difference. Some people who used the LightWorks had an extreme reaction & stopped using it.

I was willing to experiment on myself. I don't have additional health issues like co-infections but I am disabled with Lyme. I didn't take the abx for a long time & I was not taking them when I used the LightWorks. I was ill with Lyme for over 10 years, undiagnosed.

It worked for me & I can see that the technology has merit. I don't really care if there are a bunch of people saying this & that... bottom line is that the infrared light was effective for me.

Do the research & see all the information there is about using low level laser therapy, blood irradiation, LED therapy, cold lasers, etc. There are lots of studies in Eastern Europe & Russia for this technology, too, for many health conditions.

It's just a matter of time before people use it... if the drug companies release their strangle-hold on the medical community. They will stand to lose billions or more if people do start using light to heal illnesses.

You do have to have a protocol & stick with it. It's not going to work if you don't go all the way & give it a chance. I'm sorry mati had a bad experience. I don't think she was prepared & she left too early.

You need to plan a trip like going to a foreign country for medical treatment out. This is serious business. Would you be out camping in the rain if you were having a hysterectomy or your tonsils out?

No treatment is 100% but I have found great relief from using the LightWorks after having a major herx, I can't see that the Bionic 880 would be a fraud. If anything... it may be too strong.
Posted by yanivnaced (Member # 13212) on :
That's interesting. If you don't mind can you describe what you passed out of your intestines?

And what is your protocol with the device (how do you use it).
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Hey I am not agianst you guys, I am with ya!! I am just an overly cautious and skeptical person....( just from some experiences I have had in the last year of my life)...

I want nothing more for this to work for everyone... [Smile]
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
I don't see how anyone can judge that I left too early when they were not there and understanding the intolerable level of stress that I was under and with no-one to turn to, in a strange city with little German, very sick and easily confused and unable to feed myself or shop.

I do not think anyone can judge either about the campsite, I think that it was reasonable to think that in August, in the usually hot summers in Germany, I would manage especially as I have electric sensitivity and a tent or as it happens, a proper bed put up in the back of a van (my companion was in the tent) is a good place for me. Had the weather been as is usually it would have worked fine. My companion had a satellite laptop and I could do my diet having him to drive me to the bio-markts. The cold and rain was not normal.

I never imagined that he would get fed up with the rain and leave me but I was desperate and when he offered the help I needed when I had no one here to come to Germany with me, I just accepted it.

This is all on top of the necessity of trying to save some money somewhere and get the treatment. Not all of us are fortunate enough to do the trip well within our means. Should anyone be put down for trying to do it more economically? It was planned as best as I could, having a time constraint in wanting to get there in the good weather.

I am hoping to get someone to communicate with the doctor for me who is a nurse and speaks fluent English and who may be willing to act as an interpreter for others here who are going. .
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
I repeat the treatment with Bionic here - at least the sequence. Some people apparently have not read all.

The Bionic 880 treatments are done in a very specific sequence. They are not "done for a while", and then stopped, started up again and stopped. It's done from start to finish without long interruptions. Remember the bugs replenish themselves. That's also the reason why treatment fails if antibiotics are taken during the treatment. The bugs go hide, the photons chase, hide and seek, with no end in sight. Therefore no abx and no killer herbs shortly before and during treatment.

Treatments that failed were either done improperly or incomplete. Or patient took abx. Or misdiagnosis. Further search necessary.

There is a minimum of 5 treatments for all patients, exactly with two non-treatment days in between each one. If the last falls on a Thursday, there are three full days in between. They are done until every lyme nosode from the highest to the lowest potency clears the system energetically. If all ten nosodes clear, the treatment is finished. Lyme is finished. This usually takes 2 1/2 weeks (5 treatments with two non-treatment days in between each). When the patient clears all nosodes, i.e. he has no active bacteria showing any longer, treatment is finished. The patient is asked to come back after 4 weeks, and again after 4 weeks, for four months, to be tested to make certain that there is no active Borrelia present. Then it is recommended that the patient be energetically tested again once a year, especially since Lyme Disease is very rampant now all over Europe. It certainly seems to be the same or worse here.

I have talked with other practitioners in Germany who also do the Bionic800 Lyme treatment. They pretty much follow the same protocol and average the number of treatments for patients at 5 - 8.

My husband needed six treatments in Germany, and we treated here at home for two more in exactly the identical manner.

He is totally lymefree without any co-infections. His major problem was Bartonella, but he had at one time all of them (Borrelia, Ehrlichia, Babesia, Bartonella, Chlamydia, Nanobacter, Rickettsia). The are all gone. He does not test positive for any of them and has no Lyme symptoms that we could identify as such.

He also always showed a viral infection here and there, and a polio flare, which I treated with a Polio nosode, and that is also no longer testing positive.

He has since been releasing heavy metals - to put it mildly - by the tons. For several weeks, almost on his own, without any interference except binding agents to clear them from the body.

He is still doing this, but is also now showing release of fungal toxins and mold.

The sequence of events coincides clearly with what I had always been taught by Dr. K. Infections and metals are keeping house together. Heavy metals produce fungi which act as a protective agent for the body - the mercury would otherwise kill us. But the fungi then also, while acting as a protection, goes through its lifesycles and creates toxins that are as severe as all the other infections. Catch22.
With excessive heavy metals still in body, fungi is difficult to get rid of. Ditto mold.

Now that Lyme is gone, metals are leaving much more freely than ever possible before the Bionic 880 treatment, and hopefully taking any remaining symptoms with them. Dr. Woitzel told me again yesterday that the photons are active long after the treatment is finished. My husband is 2 months short of 83 and his body certainly will not rid itself of toxins as a younger person would. So we wait praising every day that shows more improvement, his muscles are coming back, getting the same goodlooking legs he always had; his strength is growing and his weight is increasing; and coordination is steadily improving. He is busy all day and careful, totally painfree, except that he is not running a marathon, but working at the gym twice a week. Not all days are alike, because the toxins leave a trail on their way out. There was a time when he could not move at all and was like frozen in place.

My hope is that even the slightest damage will still be repaired in order for him to be fully and permanently functional.

We now treat for fungi and mold/Aspergillus and the Bionic before attempting heavy meds.


I also heard yesterday that a group effort was made with CD 57 - several doctors in Germany took part in it - and they now have evidence that CD 57 moves in the right direction following Bionic 880 treatments of Lyme. There is also a combination/comparison study withsome abx patients and some Bionic patients with Lyme. I don't know any details and no results yet. Just started. Dr. W. is not part of it. He just tells me all the bits of news. Nice man.

If Bionic treatment "fails", renewed infection is possible. Start all over again.

That's it for now.

Take care.
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
I wonder why the doctor gave me a third appointment 8 days after the second, then if timing is so important according to what GiGi has written. The appointment was originally set for the Thursday, the first being a Friday the second the following Tuesday I believe. However, after the second treatment I was told that my appointment had been changed and would not be that week but the next - for the the Wednesday. The changes were due to the immanent holidays of the doctor I believe. This did not give me the impression that a definite schedule was vital.

I accept that interupting treatment was a bad thing and know that I will probably have to start from the begining again when I find someone to do it if indeed I do decide it is my only option apart from giving up and doing nothing now. If I could have avoided this I would have most certainly. As I had already been in e-mail contact with the doctor, he could easily have reached me this way if he was so concerned to find me.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
So when you go to germany for 3 weeks to have 5-8 treatments.. do you then have to go back 4 weeks later and than a year later??
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Ocean - I was confirmed with lyme in 2000 and had several possible new exposures over the years.

NYjohn - the bionic880 is 5,800 Euros as of yesterday via a phone conversation with the manufacturer.

ticktoxic - sorry to blow your theory out of the water about my other tx. I did not receive ANY ozone infusions.

I received 5 biophoton treatments, each followed by an infusion of magnesium and some things to support the kidneys and liver as I released toxins.

In terms of how deep does light penetrate? I suppose that is of concern if you are treating pain or injuries. The biophotons change the blood during treatment for lyme and is used on specific points.

I would doubt that the treatment "penetrated my appendix" but instead moved so many toxins through the blood that all the infection in my gut was moved to the appendix.

I don't know what 4-5 modalities you are referring to ticktoxic, but that is not the case with me. Biophotons, infusions and 3 homeopathic remedies for organ support.

I did not take anything else while here. Everything with the exception of activated charcoal tested as no use to me.

You suggest that the biophotons can not not kill borrelia and the like. What killed mine then? Solidago or fluid infusions? That doesn't make much sense now does it?

As far as the "believers" being infuriated. I am not infuriated. I am looking forward to going home, living my life, getting lots of exercise, enjoying being with my family as I did pre-lyme, drive to NY to visit my son at college which I have not felt capable of for a year and who knows what else?

Do you understand what I am saying? I have a bright future, I am happy, I feel great and I will not longer fill my time with worrying and toxic thoughts.

Say what you will but that is half the battle my friends and easy enough to do when you find a way to feel good.

Oh yes, and some "happy dancing" with sixgoofy and steelbone along with a deep fried turkey. [lol] Private joke, sorry.

I think it was Bob who said light therapy is in it's early stages. You are so right. Dr. W was at a conference last weekend where its use was being discussed for cancer and many other things.

I wish you all the best

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Ticktoxic, you may not believe it - but colonics are also indicated, especially if you have nothing better, at least following these treatments because a huge load is going through the system and the more quickly it finds its way out of the body, the better.

Your name rings a bell, and I seem to remember very vividly some years ago that you protested loudly about my talking and recommending colonics during severe detox. Even light treatments need the best support possible to remove the dead toxins from the body. Often the patient body has lost some of the self-power to take care of things without added support.

Anyone dances to their own drummer! Please dance to yours; I dance to mine. And for thre record: the recent thread on Bionic 880 was initiated by me because I discovered the doctor and his protocol, and it was erased by me, all onehundred and some pages, because people became more and more insulting and fearing worse (normally not my habit), I cut out the "tumor" and tossed it.
At this very moment you seem to be starting a repeat performance to where even the very patient and tolerant Six starts to react - so it seems.

So it's time to cool it and to get back to what is important --- the real fact that there is at least one more method to cure Lyme! The Bionic 880 is a 100% hit, if done right and for the right reasons.

I just received in the mail a 4-page brochure in English -- they are having several conference exhibits in Asia apparently. The first page in big letters " Bionic 880 Photon Therapy followed by the drawing of a large tick - followed by the words: Treament of Lyme Disease (Borreliosis) without antibiotics according to Dr. med Ingo D.E,. Woitzel and then the colorful picture of the instrument.

The whole treatment is described and I don't have time to repeat it all. But here is one paragraph - entitled Therapy. ( The translation is rather poor, but I guess good translators are difficult to find / gg)


The treatment of Lyme disease is a purposeful treatment. By applying the Borrelia nosodes, including Borrelia Afzelli and Borrelia burgdorferi, a decisive load of the cybernetic system takes place. The cell is now subject to negative loading, measurable energetic information and defends itself against this influence. By simultaneous treatment with the photon therapy the cell gets the possibility to elimnate the Borrelia agent from within. This leads to a measurable immune reaction. This can be observed and confirmed by the reaction in the LTT and the serological test (IgG and, ocassionally, IgM).

This brochure goes into all the finer details of how the treatment is done, the diagnosis, the after effects, the treatment to minimize after-effects, etc., and contraindications, etc.
Published August 2008.

The text ends with "The basic principle of this Borreliosis therapy by means of photons is successfully applicable to many other cases of illness."

My comment: A reputable manufacturer and a reputable medical doctor does not normally go to the extent of approving or publishing a color brochure filled with lies distributing it throughout the world. The German law would be after them in a hurry.

I do have a collection of a number of different case reports written by real medical doctors and practitioners in Germany describing various cases and treatments. Everyone as fascinating as the next. I am not going to spend my time translating them, for most obvious reasons.

Take care.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Nana Dubo I am still thrilled to hear you are feeling so good and I am thrilled that Gigi's husband is doing well too.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
And to Nano Dubo --- yupeeee- and blessed be the brave!

Get home safely, and take care.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Yes, I was starting to lose my patience yesterday (not with you Unexpected [Smile] ). I don't mind doubters. I know this is new to all of us. My intention at the beginning was that it may or may not work. I believe it will work .... and believer can be used to describe me in other ways, too. I don't like the condescending attitude ..... but now I realize there is no debating with an attitude like that.

Sparkle, yes, using the Lightworks was a big part of my decision to go to Germany. I bought the Lightworks figuring that for $300 I could see if light really does something and knowing that I could not do the whole protocol that Dr. W uses.

Once I started using the Lightworks, I realized it did a lot. I stopped using it (I didn't know if it was doing good or bad for me) and scheduled the trip to Germany.

We continue to use the Lightworks on our bird who is old and had one foot in the grave. She is doing well and looks like a young bird again the way she dances around. The protruding abdomen is gone.

Mati, I do understand your predicament and don't judge you at all! You tried to get it done with a lower budget but didn't plan on your friend bailing on you. I understand.

My point is only that the treatment was not complete. [Smile] Hopefully some day soon you will be able to do it again.

And Nana, I'm ready for that happy dance and fried turkey!!! I also wish my trip were tomorrow instead of next Saturday!!
Posted by sunshinyday (Member # 14337) on :
Nana - I am elated for you!
It has to be exciting to feel so good!

Stay well.

Gigi - as always, thanks for the info.

Would you be willing to PM me? I would love to talk to you.

Six -- I hope you three have a wonderful time over there!

Be well.

Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
It all sounds promising. I think it is possible the light alters things by cell signalling. It's not that the light itself "kills" borrelia. Bacteria can shift in response to many inputs. Apparently cranberry turns e. coli into a shape where it is almost unrecognizable (and not pathogenic). So who knows what light does.

And maybe its hogwash who knows. But it sounds interesting. I should try my Lightworks (I bought but I'm trying transfer factor now and I try one thing at a time).

My main problem is going to Germany would be almost impossible right now. And there is no practitioner here qualified. Thus I wish a practitioner *here* would do a training over with Dr. W for 3 months and bring the machine back here.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Sunshinyday, I do not use the PM facility on Lymenet because I prefer to get my e-mails without going to Lymenet. So you need to e-mail me - [email protected] Glad to talk anytime we can arrange.

Take care.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
GiGi, I have a question, Dr. W told me it was okay to take herbs, but to get off abx and anti-malarials one week before coming to my appt.

Are some herbs not okay? I had started taking some herbs again and they were making me feel a little better.

Thanks for your help. I'd send you an email, but I thought someone else might benefit from this information.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
How long does it usually take for Dr W to return emails???
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Unexpected, too long, LOL. I got impatient and sent him a few .... he eventually did get back to me.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Dr. W. most the time does not have time to respond to e-mails Like Dr. K., he would have to answer e-mails all day long. He works long hours, and they let me know that they cannot answer most questions anyway because all facts are not there to be considered to answer correctly. The office was closed for three weeks recently - everybody got a rest by going on vacation. It's a great German tradition - they still know when to shut down.

Six, there are herbs that kill and there are herbs that act as drainage and/or balsam. There are anti-malarial herbs. I don't remember exactly what you are taking.

We mainly tried to keep the body drainage going in order to get overthere without feeling congested and "all roads blocked". We only feel poorly, that is my humble opinion, because we are so overloaded with toxins that can't seem to make it out of the body. Just think what we are doing with all the capsules we stuff into ourselves every day. (I have long, long ago stopped all that.)

That is important when you get there to at least start with a fairly open "system", so that when the photons start their work, the body can handle the load smoothly. My husband had no reaction to speak of - rested more and took it easy and tried to make sure the flow-out is in tact. Using common sense.

I wouldnt for that reason take any "killing" herbs and certainly would not take any antibiotics just shortly before going.

Learning to trust and relaxing about all of it is probably the most important thing to do. The body has a funny way to turn into negative body chemistry even - by merely thinking "trouble", "worries", "doubts", etc. I know you understand what I am trying to say.

Turn the worry spigot off - you are going to be in the best of hands.

Take care.
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Re: depth of penetration....

Far infrared penetrates bones:



Best: (second paragraph)
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Thanks, GiGi, I'm pretty relaxed about the whole thing. [Smile] I do trust I'm in good hands. I have turned the worry spigot off, LOL, and in a few more days I'll turn the PM spigot off, too, ROFL!

For those who PM with me regularly and don't have my email address (or those who I know on the board), feel free to ask for it.

So, things like chlorella, zeolite, etc. are good. That I understand. I couldn't handle the cholestyramine, triggered symptoms just as Dr. S says it will in his videos.

I'm off the prescriptions except for sleep, pain, thyroid.

I'm taking vitamins/minerals, Host Defense (mushrooms), iron, magnesium, etc.

I'm taking Turmeric for inflammation and it's helping.

I take it that things like andographis, samento, artemisia, etc. are no-no's?

Am I missing something?

I'm SO EXCITED!!! Thank you for telling me about this, GiGi, I'm really looking forward to the whole experience.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
ok so how do you contact Dr W if you cant reach him through email??

And how do you get an appointment if you cant ask questions??
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Shandy, If you are planning to go, see if you can schedule your appointment with someone who also plans to go. You might also share the expense of a room and rental car.

Six & Paul -- Wishing you both every success on your trip.

I found the following link and I'll quote part of it:

Biophotonics deals with the interaction between light and biological systems.
The word itself is a combination of the Greek syllables bios standing for
life and phos standing for light. Photonics is the technical term for all procedures,
technologies, devices, etc. utilizing light in interaction with any matter.
Before we discuss Biophotonics in more detail, we focus first and foremost
on the achievements of Photonic Technologies, which are often used synonymously
with Photonics. The advanced control and manipulation of light now
available make Photonics as powerful as Electronics. One major goal is to incorporate
evenmore photonically driven processes into our daily lives. Therefore,
Photonics is considered as a key technology of the twenty-first century.
Photonics encompasses the entire physical, chemical and biological laws
of nature, together with technologies for the generation, amplification, control,
manipulation, propagation,measurement, harnessing and any other type
of utilization of light. This rather broad definition of Photonics emphasizes
the huge importance of light for our modern human society. Photonics is a
key technology for solving momentous problems in the domains of health care, food production and technology, environmental protection, transportation,
mobility, etc. It is a pacemaking technology for other developments such
as communication and production technology, biotechnology and nanotechnology.
Just one brief example of what the near future holds: conventional
lighting by light bulbs, neon lamps or fluorescent tubes will be a thing of
the past. The new wonder is organic light-emitting diodes (OLED). Those
innovative diodes provide more efficient and long-lasting illumination, with
energy consumption reduced to a minimum. Thus, the wide-spread application
of these diodes will allow our economy to save billion of Euros both
on the cost of energy and also on consequential costs, such as, for example,
the cost of environmental protection. Furthermore, the use of these diodes for
displays will revolutionize graphic screen technology. In comparison to TFT
(Thin Film Transistor) screens, an OLED display does not need background
illumination. The display has the thickness of a plastic transparency, and
its flexibility. Completely new applications, such as the use as ``information
wallpaper'', are in the minds of scientists and advertising experts. However,
in other fields of Photonics the future has already started. The information
carried via the World Wide Web is mainly carried by light. From these few
examples, we can recognize that photonic technologies are already pervading
our entire life.

Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
yanivnaced - I started getting pain in my abdomen & diarrhea. I tried a coffee enema & it didn't seem to help much. This went on for about 3 weeks. I had to eat very bland food & I tried a number of detox agents like zeolites, chlorella, non-psylium bowel cleansers, psylium, charcoal, Welchol, probiotics, etc.

I think what helped me most was the psylium & the charcoal (4 caps, 2-3 times a day). I'm still going through it now but to a lesser degree. Some days I'm OK but other days I have loose bowel movements & some abdominal pain.

I did start drinking coffee again (1 cup in the am) & eating regular foods - so, I may have to go back on the bland diet again.

Just so you know - all throughout the 10+ years I've had Lyme I never had any digestive problems. So, the bowel detox event is new & started after using the LightWorks.

I think it's just takes time to detox all the toxins... just like the financial markets & all of the "toxic loans" - LOL

I have been going through great stress in my personal life due to some deaths in the family & an upcoming cross-country move. Otherwise, I feel like I really improved from using the LightWorks.

I would recommend going to see someone professional to do this with if at all possible. I have been studying holistic health for many years on my own so I felt like I would be OK with doing it, myself. It is not easy, though, & it has some very experimental aspects to it.

I don't think I have co-infections & my heavy metal load is not too bad. I had several tests for mercury & they were all very low. I do need to continue to detox & support my colon & other organs.

I do not assume I don't have to detox mercury but I will get to it in time. There are some products I probably should have gotten but I try to do the best I can on a limited budget.

If I could go to see Dr. W in Germany, I would. He seems to be the most experienced in using this method for Lyme. I have seen people use the infrared light with Lyme & they usually feel better at first but then they may have a very toxic reaction to it after a few days.

It seems that the people who use the infrared light & don't have Lyme do not get this same toxic reaction. This is meaningful... It's important to use the infrared light with respect & care if you have Lyme.

I would suggest to anyone who does try the LightWorks to stop using the abx. I'm not a doctor so this is not medical advice but just my experience. I just don't think it's a good idea to use the LightWorks while you are taking abx.

You do have to think outside of the box to try this method but I think it has great merit. Especially, for people who do not get well by using drugs.

I also think that the effects of the infrared light may be cumulative. I have stopped using the infrared light to give my body a chance to detox. If I want to get a bit of a charge - I sit out in the sun for 20 minutes or so. I allow the sunlight to shine on my inner arms where the skin is thin so it can reach my blood.

I think after this stressful period in my life passes, I will continue to get well. It's kind of hard to heal when you're going through alot of intense stress. So, my results have been hampered a bit.

This modality is quite amazing & I hope more research will be done so it can be used for more ailments.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Okay, I am going to play devil's advocate. I am not saying the bionic treatment does not work, but if it does work, why aren't the people on the sites in Europe and particularly in Germany
raving about it?

That is what I don't understand. I am very glad for Nanadubo, but I guess I will wait and see how it all plays out several months from now.

Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Hiker -- we've been down this road several times on the threads that were deleted. It appears many of the folks in Germany don't really like to post about their health.

If Dr. W. had seen 2000 patients. How many of them are upset with the treatment versus how many of them are satisfied. You can see the problem, we hear nothing.

This is the scorecard so far:

GiGi's husband has made remarkable improvement
Hopingandpraying we're still not sure of
Clancy's husband is steadily improving with the osteopath
Nanadubo : Going into remission

Nanadubo was probably in the best shape for the treatment. Everyone else was very sick.

Let me pose the question another way: If there were 2000 people. How come we haven't heard of 2000 complaints?
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Is hopingandpraying in Germany right now??? Or were they there previously? It would be nice to know of his/her experience
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
hopingandpraying -- was in Germany and has come back. She was there when GiGi and her husband were there. She started to post and got hammered.

It's difficult to say how well her son is doing it was going to take several months to completely detoxify.

Hopingandpraying -- Hope your son is doing much better. [Smile]
Posted by karatelady (Member # 7854) on :
Hope this hasn't already been posted on here:

Healing Light

Experiments with light energy are making everyone happy: farmers, doctors, patients, and astronauts are all reaping the benefits. What began as a way to grow better crops has ended up being a way to help seriously ill patients recover faster. In this case, what's good for plants is also good for people.

It started with Light Emitting Diodes (LEDs) developed by NASA Marshall Space Flight Center in Alabama and Quantum Devices, Inc., of Wisconsin. The scientists exposed plants aboard the Space Shuttle to the near-infrared light produced by LEDs.

They found that the LEDs increased the energy produced in the mitochondria (energy compartments) of each cell. That meant the cells grew faster. Faster-growing plants are good news for farmers; the faster the plants grow, the sooner they can be harvested, processed, and sold.

Right about the same time, Quantum Devices scientists heard physicians discussing the use of laser therapy for their patients. While laser light did accelerate cell growth and healing in patients, there were some significant drawbacks.

Lasers can cause tissues surrounding the treatment area to become overheated, they're big and expensive, limited in wavelength (color), and they're not very reliable, said Harry T. Whelan, MD, professor of pediatric neurology and director of hyperbaric medicine at the Medical College of Wisconsin.

A light went off, so to speak, and Quantum approached Dr. Whelan about his concerns. Soon they were experimenting to see if using LED instead of laser therapy would improve the quality of treatment for patients.

"LED treatment has been a wonderful advancement," Dr. Whelan says. "LEDs don't heat the tissues the way lasers do; because LED uses longer wavelength (redder) near-infrared light, it penetrates the tissues deeper. And where lasers are more pinpointed in their delivery, LED can treat the entire body.

That's useful for treating people with serious burns, crush injuries, and complications of cancer chemotherapy and radiation treatment, where large portions of the body are involved."

LED therapy has been used successfully with diabetic skin ulcers, burns, and severe oral sores caused by cancer treatment. The redder the light, the longer the wavelength, and the longer the wavelength, the more deeply it can penetrate body tissues, Dr. Whalen says.

The near-infrared light rays produced by LED are longer than (and therefore superior to) lasers, and Dr. Whelan asserts that this improved therapy could extend to treating brain tumors and injuries. Animal experiments being conducted now direct LED through the head without the use of any surgery.

When LED light is used to activate light-sensitive chemotherapy drugs to destroy cancer it is dubbed Photo Dynamic Therapy (PDT). LED light is otherwise used without drugs to stimulate normal cell chemicals, for healing and tissue regeneration.

"LED reacts with cytochromes in the body," says Dr. Whelan. "Cytochromes are the parts of cells that respond to light and color. When cytochromes are activated, their energy levels go up, and that stimulates tissue growth and regeneration.

The potential to regenerate tissue, muscle, brain, and bone opens the door to helping people with diseases that previously had no hope of treatment."

The good news about using LED therapy to speed healing made its way back to the space program. Muscle and bone atrophy are well documented in astronauts because microgravity slows the healing process, and alters the function and structure of every cell's mitochondria, Dr. Whelan says.

The result is that wounds are slow to heal, and muscles and bones become weaker from time spent in space. The idea of using LED therapy with astronauts sounded appealing.

"Using an LED array to cover an astronaut may help prevent the effects of microgravity," says Dr. Whelan. "LED therapy could also be used to help treat conditions that could arise in space that don't respond to treatment because of those microgravity situations.

A simple cut might heal faster with LED, but the benefits would be even more notable if an astronaut suffered a severe injury."

Here on Earth, Dr. Whelan says that LED therapy can easily affect our entire population. "Not everyone may need to use LED treatments for themselves, but just about everyone has known someone with cancer or a severe injury," he says. "Knowing that there is hope for diseases that used to have no treatment is good news for everyone."

Courtesy of NASA's Space Operations Mission Directorate
Published by NASAexplores: April 19, 2001
Information in this article was accurate as of the publication date. For the latest updates about this project, visit the NASA homepage (
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Sorry if I came off sounding negative. I so want this to be a cure or at least put the lyme and bart into remission, but every time I get my hopes up over a treatment they seem to have been dashed.

I fully support anyone who is going over there and look forward to hearing the results during their stay or when they get back.

Blessings to you Sixgoofykids and Steelbone.

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
It is my firm conviction that every single one of this group who has been overthere so far and has come back has not only had Lyme as a problem, but one or more others.

Everyone that has been there cleared the Lyme out of their system after a certain number of treatments.

As I have been posting here for many years, as a norm, people do not get deadly ill from Lyme alone. Usually there are other contributing or major factors that finally broke the body down.
This has been the case in myself and everyone that I have come to know and share information with.

All - HopeandPraying's son, Clancy's husband, my husband, all cleared the Lyme. All now have to attend to other problems the still face.

Two very sick young people, friends, were overthere after us. One very ill who is very well now. The other vastly improved but still some work to do - which one is not sure, but EMF is or was part of the problem that they tackled right after coming back.

Hopeandpraying's son stayed in a "wireless" hotel and had to return home not well. He totally cleared all Lyme. But EMF has to be addressed in home, etc.

To delve into these other aspects while the people are overthere for Lyme treatment is very difficult, because three weeks are almost taken up by the Lyme treatments.

I find it now so much easier not to find or have to treat Lyme any longer and being able to concentrate on what is remaining of the troublemakers. As far as I am concerned, the toughest part - stopping the Lyme from doing further damage - is over and done with. The photons continue to do their work, and of course it helps to continue at home with the Bionic instrument. I don't know what I would do without it now that I have discovered all that can be done with it. Right now I am treating mold until, if necessary, before we can get the very expensive medicine for Aspergillus. I don't really want to use it unless we have to, so we give the body a chance with photons. I treat with a fungal nosode and I treat with a teeny droplet of my husband's blood. All very, very carefully with only seconds, often under one minute, of application of the frequency and other factors that I learned to test with the Biotensor. I don't know what all is hiding in the place, but photons and resonance may just do their part.

There is no doubt in my mind that all who have had the disease a long time have other problems that must be addressed.

As I posted here before, in great detail which I will no longer do, I talked to several people in Germany, one a close family friend, who had the treatment. They all, except one, were well after a few weeks. Our family friend was cured of Lyme and well after the 3rd treatment, but did all five nevertheless. She is a lady a bit younger than I - about 70.

Only one lady I talked to left after the treatments with still the same pains, that totally resolved within - I think she said - 5 to 6 weeks, without any further treatment. She was told to just take it easy for a while and wait it out. She is also totally well when I called her and very happy.

I have more phone numbers and permission to call others. But I won't. It's useless and you all have heard enough. I understand that it is difficult to learn to trust - but distrust is one of the worst hindrances to find good.

Take care.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
I was watching a youtube by connie s. aka killabugga on the bionic and saw an interesting comment.

here is the link:

Here is a comment by a German lymie and my response to her:

"This German Doctor, who speaks about 2000 cured people , doesn't tell the truth.
No way this is possible. I'm very active in the German lyme-net and not ONE person talked about sucessful treatment. If it was true, that people got cured - we would have heard about it.
Sorry for that.
By the way, I caught my first lymeinfection in California, 20 years ago. Nice souvenir.."


"Hi 999belladonna,

I am considering going at the end of the month, so thank you for this information. However, I'd like to know if there has been negative feedback on the machine either? There's a significant difference between one-sided feedback vs. little feedback at all.

Thanks for your input!"

I will post if/when I get a response from her.

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Mo, would you believe that I have been traveling to Germany several times a year for the last ten years, living less than 45 minutes away from the doctor's office who had discovered this treatment method some 8 years ago?

I have met hundreds of Klinghardt therapists overthere and not one of them knew about this way of treatment. They did and do everything very similar with light, going around in circles with homeopathics and color and lights and, and, and. I had all of that, but not in the combination as the Woitzel protocol, and it took me five plus years to get well that old way. Nobody put it together in one solid 3 week package as it is done today.

They are doing some 60 seminars annually introducing the Bionic which is being used by some 200 practitioners, more by now, all over Europe. It is used for many different applications up to including after cancer tumor care, etc. Very few outside of that circle know about it ......

Does anyone want to guess why? The instrument by law, I believe, can only be sold to licensed practitioners? Does that give you a clue why it has not spread around the world yet?

Well, number one, most of them don't know how to identify Lyme to begin with. Only the people that have figured that out can then benefit using the Bionic880. I listened to Dr. W's power point presentation to groups of doctors, etc. The majority of the 1-2 hour talk consists of vaccinating the people that Lyme is a problem, that it is everywhere, and that it is literally impossible to diagnose. That takes up most of the lecture. The treatment itself is explained in a very short time, because it is so simple ----

We are so programmed: when my brother first mentioned to me about "this doctor who treats Lyme with photons" - I looked at him, and filed it away in the back of my brain. Just another light. A month after I returned home and my husband was still suffering, I started to dig into the "photon treatment". All I remembered was the city where the doctor practices and the word photons. Google found it and solved my husband's problems with Lyme, permanently.

Take care.
Posted by rachellemarie (Member # 16419) on :
I am seriously thinking about going over myself after Six gets back with her experience.

I'm sorry if this has already been answered, but how can you communicate with them to make an appoint, know where to stay etc., if they all speak German and I don't?!

Any help would be appreciated. I don't have much experience with international travel, so if I do go, I'd be totally lost! Anyone else interested in going perhaps in February or so of 2009?
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Rachelle, the nurses/assistants speak enough
English and they will understand you. Just call the office and ask for an appointment. You will have to time your call to catch them in the office. If you call from Arizona, they are 8 or 9 hours ahead of you. So you would have to call them from your home at 6 AM to reach them at 2 PM. Don't call on Wednesday and Friday afternoons - they are closed starting at 1 PM.

If you speak slowly and clearly, they will understand you and can speak with you good enough so that you understand.

You could also call from your home around midnight if you are still up that late and reach them at 8 AM. I think they start about 7:30 AM and often go til late in the evening, except Wed and Fri.

Hope this helps. If you can't make the connection, do not leave a message on their answering machine. That is hard for them to understand when people talk fast, etc. And the don't have time to listen and listen again to the recorded messages.

If you really want a date and can't get through, you can e-mail me and I will help you.

Take care.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
I guess I smell because everytime I have a question for GiGi I get NO response but EVERYONE else does.... Talk about giving a lymie a complex who already has neuro lyme!

I think I am just about all set with this thread now... I see what going on and I can smell it from a mile away.

Good Luck everyone! Six I will be looking for your progress and wish you the VERY best in Germany!!! [Smile]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Unexpected, I have answered the question about having to go back to Germany earlier in this thread. It is very difficult answer at this time. Please read it all and read it carefully. That is why I didn't respond to you specifically. You turn of and walk away the minute you hear one negative word. Read the whole thread from beginning to end, plus there are many other discussions on the same subject within other threads.

To answer your question, I don't think anyone is going back every month. We will not either. Some people buy the instrument and they can help themselves that way. And if you are near someone who has one or a group is forming that has one - I am sure you could get help. It takes some initiative on your own part - find someone who can do energetic testing to find out if you remain clear of Lyme. Most people are as is evident by an almost non-existing relapse rate. Again, read all.

To first thing Dr. Woitzel in his Power Point presentation to doctors is the comment that patients have to become active in their own way to help themselves. This is partially a do-it-yourself cure - especially when it comes to attitude.

Can't you see how I work my butt off here to help some people - but you need to come back with a more positive input - besides "Lyme sucks". It turns me off. So you may want to think about an "attitude adjustment" - that's what my mother used to tell me ------when things didn't seem to want to go my way.

Further, most people stay until they clear the Lyme. And there are practically no relapses unless you take antibiotics when you take the treatment, or you get infected again. Misdiagnosis would show up on your first testing there. There is lots of talk here about people not coming back symptomfree for various reasons even though the Lyme bacteria has been eradicated - read it all.

The protocol as I described it has been in effect for a number of years for mostly the German or European patients. They have no problem getting checked periodically afterward. There are people in this country that do energetic testing. Or you can learn to use a Biotensor. A number of people are using it or learning to use it.

Hope this helps.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Thanks for answering my questions, And ...

well Gigi... My attitude reflects my frustration. I have been in my bed for almost 2 years... After the birth of my daughter whom I cannot even take care of.... AT ALL. I have to watch my baby and my son from my bed everyday because I cannot function. I have to watch my family go on with life without me...

I have tried EVERYTHING, and nothing works so yes I am ****ed and say lyme sucks because lyme has taken EVERYTHING from me. My ability to function, be a mom, be a wife and live life. No I am not the ONLY one... But I don't understand how this happened because I was COMPLETEY fine before I got pregnant for my daughter. Hence my frustration and fear... so sometimes it is hard to be positive.

I am 25 years old and confused with severe neuro symptoms. I think you should be a little more compassionate towards people. I look up to the people who are older and have been through this hoping for help, but all I get is that I have a bad attitude and read the thread on Bionic880... when by the way being on the computer makes me SICK, makes my neuro symptoms so bad I feel like passing out sometimes.

I am lost and always crying out for help but don't seem to get it. I am sorry I ever asked for it. There is only so much a person can do from their bed. If I have a chance to live my life and take care of my family... I would DO IT.

Now that I am in tears, I will go on my way and hope I find something that will allow me to get better and be here for my children.

I am easily swayed because I just don't believe everything everyone says without proof. I don't want to fall victim to lies and false hope.. If you take that as me being negative and having a bad attitude... well I am sorry you feel that way... I was under the impression that this was a board for help and support, and asking questions.

I think I need a little more proof before getting my weak body on a plane to another country and paying thousands of dollars.

I am not saying this doesn't work, but I just can't risk anything right now in my state of health.

Thank you for your post!

edited to add:

[ 04. October 2008, 05:35 AM: Message edited by: UnexpectedIlls ]
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Unexpected you've simply described chronic lyme. That's what it is and what it does it takes away your life.

If you wait it out more people will go and you are likely over time to form a more accurate impression.
Posted by Just Julie (Member # 1119) on :
Sent you PM UnexpectedIlls.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :

thanks for you detailed response, again.

I do remember you saying that the bionic is sorta stuck in a vacuum for the time being. I will try to keep that in mind.

But with that said, I just wanted to post 999belladonna's response to my comment on the bionic youtube:

999belladonna --

Sorry, if I put doubt in your plans.

No, no negative comments in public so far.
Only one person who had done it, told about no effects it had on him - except empty purse.;-)

They're starting a documented try now and I'm considering to be part of it. That means 4 weeks including 8 treatments and intake of the immunregulating "Viathen".

I had talked with other users of the Biophoton (Homoeopaths). They all said, the treatment with the machine alone wouldn't be sufficient.

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Thanks, Joey. With her talking about 8 treatments and with those other people saying the light alone doesn't work, it sounds as though they're not using Dr. W's protocol??

It's good to hear, anyway, that the people who are well just aren't posting. I think we all know logically that a very small percentage of Lymies actually post on message boards, so it's entirely conceivable to me that the 2000 just haven't posted. And given how many totally well Lymies we have post here it makes it even more believable.

Nonetheless, I have nothing to lose. Even Dr. B's most recent presentation says to stop treatment for a while, then to hit it hard, so even from the perspective of Dr. B's protocol, I'm on track with my abx break. [Wink]

BTW, I am learning to use the Biotensor and will come back with a machine. [Smile] I have kids I am concerned have Lyme and I want to see if this works before I drag them to Dr. J in CT. Dr. H took care of my 15 year old, but I don't know that he'd take a 10 year old.
Posted by Stacyb (Member # 13084) on :

Hello first of all I am not a big poster but I read a lot and me and Six share the same LLMD and talk quite a bit.

I know you say you are not at liberty to give out or release Dr. W.'s. power point presentations but you did mention that he is lecturing and giving these presentations around

I know of a Dr. here in Ohio that is interested in learning and using the Bionic 880 and I am trying to help gather as much information for
her as possible.
What is the best way to go about this as you
also mentioned that there was not a lot out there on the machine too.
Any information or literature would be great.

Dr. H. will most likely take your 10 year old as he took my son and he was just 11 yrs old when we went. Of course Dr J may have more interest and knowledge on children as that is his specialty.

But that all said, I agree that a try with the machine that you bring back will be great and then hopefully you will not need to see either
one of the Dr's.

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :

I do remember you saying that the bionic is sorta stuck in a vacuum for the time being. I will try to keep that in mind.

My answer: If you are referring to sending the Bionic into the US, I do not think it is stuck in a vacuum. It was shipped to Canada, the people paid a small amount of customs duty and are the happy owners of one. The one we had ordered just somehow got stuck -- nobody to this day knows why it sat in some storage building in Ohio -- but that does not mean that it cannot be sent here. My husband and I got tired waiting and went and got ours before treatment at the "already in the plans" visit at Dr. Woitzels.

If I needed two machines, I would try it in an instant to have another one shippped. There is no law that says it cannot be sent into this country. None whatsoever. Hundreds of different light instruments reach this country every day.

But with that said, I just wanted to post 999belladonna's response to my comment on the bionic youtube:

999belladonna --

Sorry, if I put doubt in your plans.

No, no negative comments in public so far.
Only one person who had done it, told about no effects it had on him - except empty purse.;-)

They're starting a documented try now and I'm considering to be part of it. That means 4 weeks including 8 treatments and intake of the immunregulating "Viathen".

I had talked with other users of the Biophoton (Homoeopaths). They all said, the treatment with the machine alone wouldn't be sufficient.

My answer to the documented try mentioned by Belladonna:

I told about this trial already in this thread above, I think. In fact, there are several trials going at this time. Dr. Woitzel is not taking part in it. I did not ask him why. It is probably too time-consuming I also know that there is always some little extra modality that he uses on this patient or that patient, depending on the patient's condition. In other words, the treatment rarely consists of pure Bionic880 treatment only. Then it is no longer a trial -- same application for everybody.

Sometimes he adds ozone afterwards, sometimes he adds structural treatments/corrections; sometimes he addresses emotional aspects. Other doctors I have talked with all say the same thing -- they all do the little additive to open or unblock the system, so that the Bionic can do the work, or ease the toxic reactions.

I agree that the machine alone would not be sufficent for the majority of people, because the majority of people do not only come in with Lyme Disease. In most cases, something else besides Lyme Disease has to be dealt with, before or after. I have been saying this since October 2000 when I first started to post on this board.

Is it Lyme -- is it fungus -- is it metals --- is it mold --- is it a wisdom tooth --- is it a root canal --- is it an unresolved emotional conflict --- is it a problem with the physical structure --
is it ongoing EMF exposure --- is it geopathic stress exposure --- is it an allergic incompatibility that has to be resolved -----???
-- living in a mold infested surrounding --- a body full of phthalates - formaldehyde - heavy metals - insecticides - pesticides ----- radiation exposure ---? a gut full of bad parasites --- None of that is directly related to the Lyme. What came first is always the question. I don't know the answer. But all are good enough reasons to agree that Bionic alone cannot do it in three weeks. I am still treating my husband for some of the very ones I listed here. But he no longer has Lyme.

In most cases, Lyme infection is eliminated with the Bionic880. That's why the high success rate. but additional problems have to be solved which are not Lyme and may need different approaches/treatments, and most likely are not eliminated with the antibiotic approach alone, or herbals that address bacterials.

Got to go and have breakfast - my husband is cooking waffles!

Take care.

Read the Five Levels of Healing by Dr. K. - on his website.

Most people overlook on or two of more of the above incomplete list. I am fully convinced that it is never Lyme alone.

Take care.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Stacy, I told a few posts above that the manufacturer and Dr. Woitzel published a brochure in August 2008, which I have a copy of. I described and copied part of the brochure in my earlier post above. It gives every minute detail related to the treatment of Lyme with the Bionic 880. It is in English and very readable -
I also explained that the major portion of the power point presentation is explaining to the novices that Lyme is hard to diagnose, the why's, etc. But the treatment is explained in every detail, including the use of nosodes, type, strength, how to...........

I would suggest you call or e-mail the manufacturer of the Bionic and ask him to send you one. Germans do a lot of things the old-fashioned way - a brochure by snail-mail. But as for explaining the treatment, that is the best the have put out, even if it is a poor translation from German.

Now I have got to have my coffee and waffles.....
Posted by Stacyb (Member # 13084) on :
Thanks Gigi-

I did notice the posts on what you mentioned and thought you may have more info...
but I will do as you
suggested and contact the manufacturer.

Enjoy your meal.

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Alv, your PM box is full. I'll answer here since I know others will have the same question - I'm sorry, but I am not asking Dr. W any questions for other people.

It's not that I don't care, it's that I know from my experience with my LLMD here that I have trouble enough remembering my own questions.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I want to go see Dr. Woitzel because I want the whole package and all of his experience treating others not just the use of the light machine.

It sounds like at least for starters the use of IV's for what each patient is going through and the chiropractic adjustments and everything that the Doctor feels each patient needs to recover is as important as use of the Bionic 880.
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :

That is one of the biggest reason why i'm going.

I want everything he has to offer. I beleive he has some cool tools to use on my back along with getting rid of the lyme [Smile]
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I wish I was going with you but I want to get my fillings out first.
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :

LOL...I'm getting mine out when i get back...

Seems like a lot of people that remove fillings with lyme feel pretty crummy doing it..So i'm hoping that having the lyme removed first will make the process much easier [dizzy]

But who the hell know.. [Smile]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :

But who the hell know..

Guess what, I still don't know either. But I do know that they are bad news for most people.

Take care.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I am also waiting for warmer weather in Germany because I need Winter clothes and would probably freeze to death if I went now.

Paul let me know if your filling removal plan works out. That makes me think maybe I should wait to remove mine or maybe I am just looking for any excuse to avoid sitting and suffering in a dental chair at the moment.
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
I have nothing to back up my decision. [Smile]

Kind of though about it one day on which i should do first and that was the answer i came up with..

LOL about the weather...Dont be a wimp..ROFL
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I am a total weather wimp.

I think warmer weather would be more healing for me all the way around. Maybe I will go in May as a birthday trip. Nothing like getting lyme free for the perfect birthday present.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Angelica, I think you're doing the right thing getting the fillings out first .... not that anyone else is doing the wrong thing, but considering you don't want to go in the dead of winter, I think you should get your fillings out first. [Smile] No sense waiting to get your fillings out till next summer.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
For whatever it is worth, I used to walk around with a turleneck in high summer and 3 down comforters, the size Europeans use, was never too much. It ended almodst abruptly
once I removed the metals out of my mouth.

Mercury sits on the ligand sites of the hormone producing glands -- thyroid - temperature control Pineal gland - sleep! etc.

It should not be underestimated when ill. Without the amalgam fillings, there is no longer release of mercury into the rest of the body.

Take care.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Now I just need someone to come hold my hand when the drilling starts. The whole idea of it is just one giant unpleasant thought but I am sure I am doing the right thing by getting the mercury taken out.
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
i am thinking that maybe i'd go over there in february, depending on the feedback from those going over before that.
btw, it is easy to get around germany and not speak german. but it's a good idea to go to your local library and rent a pimsleur's or similar book/cd on german ahead of time, it can help!

i already had my 2 small amalgams out about 3.5 years ago, way before i had lyme symptoms (and 2 years before the bites/rash/meningitis). i don't know if that did much but i am glad i did have them out. i still ended up getting lyme anyhow.

gig, i would love a copy of that brochure of dr woitzel's!!!!
there are several doctors/practitioners in the nyc area that would be interested in seeing it. perhaps they would travel to train with him, two of them frequent germany anyhow to lecture on homeopathy and other healing modalities.
would you be able to email it to me?

i only speak a little german but have access to a translator.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I would love a copy of that brochure too to give to a Austrian MD/homeopath that practices here. She is very opened minded and had Lyme disease when she was younger and still living in Europe.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Angelica, my dentist prescribed Valium for me for when I had my amalgams removed. It's normal to be nervous. [Wink]
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Good to know because I may need a truck load of valium.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
It actually wasn't half as bad as I thought it would be. [Smile] It wasn't the dental work that was the problem, it was the detoxing afterward.
Posted by bejoy (Member # 11129) on :
In response to concerns a couple of pages ago about people "getting worse" after Bionic treatment...

The way we recognize if an antibiotic protocol is working is by an intense herxheimer reaction.

In other words, we usually feel quite a bit worse before we feel better, because of the need to rid the body of toxins.

I would expect this to be the same with the Bionic. The difference being the possibility that lyme won't be replicating during and treatment, so the length of time that a person would be experiencing a herx would be less.

I would imagine that the herx from a Bionic treatment would be stronger and more profound than other treatments that are slower and take longer.

I am comfortable with energetic testing and muscle testing as a diagnosis. Many others are not and I respect that.

I am comfortable with the idea that lyme could be gone from the body, but the body could still be experiencing some pretty uncomfortable detoxing.

The body has to drain the lymph, liver, GI, kidneys etc, of dead bacteria, toxins from dead bacteria, metals released by dead bacteria, and mobilized released as metals are removed.

Lets keep in mind that Lyme is Borrelia Burgdorferi. Lyme disease is a tick and vector born illness made up of a variety of pathogens and toxins.

Many people have some lyme bacteria and are asymptomatic. Those who are symptomatic with lyme disease are full of all kinds of things.

Please pardon the graphic comparison, but it's kind of like being HIV positive without having symptoms, or having full blown AIDS.

With a recent case of HIV, there may be no symptoms, and few additional disorders. With AIDS, the complications are multiple and profound.

Even if you could magically cure someone of AIDS overnight, I wouldn't expect them to be well for a long time.

Lets say Dr. Woitzel has this magic cure (and it sure sounds to me like it is working) I wouldn't expect the body to spring back to life the very next day. Give it a month or two at least.

Since being symptom free of 20 years of Lyme, my physical recovery has been a long road with lots pain and tears.

I hope for the best for Bionic returnees, but wouldn't bat an eye if rehab is still a bit challenging.

We'll be here for you if it is.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I agree, Bejoy. It just takes time whichever path you choose. Everyone is different.

Angelica- it's not that bad to have the mercury removed. It only takes a couple of hours & it's done. I guess it depends on how many you have.

I just went to a regular dentist & asked him to use all of the precautions. He's a good dentist but not specifically "biological".

I still have about 3 or 4 more to remove but it wasn't all that bad for me. I felt fine in about a week or so after.

Others may react more severely but I didn't seem to have too bad a time of it.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I have a herd of fillings to be removed and a crown. I am actually wondering what will be left after they remove all of them... Swiss cheese?

[ 04. October 2008, 11:27 PM: Message edited by: Angelica ]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
The subject of possible patient reactions are described in the brochure I mentioned and I will copy them below. This description follows exactly what we and others have experienced while being treated for Borreliosis with the Bionic880:

"Possible Patient Reactions:

During the therapy: no reactions, increase of concentration disturbances or clearer thinking (subjective), reinforcement or reduction of already existing symptoms, e.g. pain, parasthesia, orthostatic dysregulation.

After the (first) treatment (usually about evening or night):

Evident reactions like, e.g. fatigue, extreme tiredness, increase of pain, reinforcement of existing pain, activation of deferred seats of disease. If any such reaction should occur, a special infusion therapy should be administered after the 2nd treatment. This will minimize the complaints significantly.

With perfect well-being, no complaints, the feeling of "being ready to take on anything", simply fit and loadable, mentally stable, no infusion is to be administered.

Relative Contraindications:

Gravidity, cardiac pacemaker, organ transplantation"

The brochure also states "In case of remaining complaints, these do not result from Borreliosis, but may have other causes which have to be explored."

The brochure further states:
"The basic principle of this Borreliosis therapy by means of photons is successfully applicable to many other cases of illness."

My comments: So I don't think one should speculate on what the reaction might be. It certainly is not what is referred to on Lymenet as a herxheimer. All the people I have talked with had zero to little, though all were very ill before the treatment and all had it for years. My husband had very little. I was treating just for possible dormants and felt absolutely nothing.

The lighthead does neither feel warm nor hot, nor cold - it feels like a little piece of plastic would feel when touching the body. The light is barely noticable and changes pattern constantly.

Don't forget we are not dealing with biochemistry. We are dealing with photons and some nosodes. The cell defends itself against the energetic information of the nosode and at the same time the photon helps the cell to eliminate the borrelia agent from within. This leads to a immune reaction. These events and reactions can be observed with the LTT and the serol. tests - that is one reason for doing them.

Take care.

[ 05. October 2008, 02:08 AM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
To those who are asking me for a copy of the brochure I was describing above ---- I only have one copy that was sent to me by a friend. Email or call the manufacturer - I am sure they will snail-mail you one. Tell them you want the August 2008 color brochure describing the treatment of Lyme Disease without Antibiotics, by Dr. med. Woitzel. with the picture of the tick! It always gives me the shivers when I look at it!

Their e-mail is --- [email protected]

and don't forget to give them your mailing address.

Take care.
Posted by bejoy (Member # 11129) on :
That is reassuring. GiGi, do you know what Dr. Woitzel uses in his "special infusion" to help people recover if they are having difficulty. He sounds like such a master at his art.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
I'm home! Still on German time, 1:00 am here 7:00 am there so I am wide awake [Frown]

I guess it will take a few days to adjust.

I will let you know how it goes having dental work done, having had biophoton treatments first. Maybe I will handle it better now, maybe not.

I only had 5 treatments and Dr. W said I should not stay for an extra week. He is generally saying to take a break as it is so powerful. I will have some energetic testing done to be sure it stays gone.

Also, don't plan on having everything done exactly as others have done. There is someone there now that he did not do testing on for food sensitivities.

He is also thinking of not doing the blood test he uses on Americans anymore as it takes a couple of weeks to get the results back. Everything is individual.

He felt that what had been going on with my eyes might be food related - hence the testing. I stayed off everything he said to while I was there and plan to continue for the time being. The teeth also have a direct effect on the eyes.

I wondered how I would explain the nosodes to customs if they asked. They didn't look through my things. I did have a letter from him to accompany them.

Paul - watch out for the adjustments, he is a BIG man! Just kidding. He is very gentle put could have snapped me in half if he had wanted to!

It was getting quite cold when I left and the foliage was beautiful. They often get snow in November according to Mrs. Klein so go prepared for that if you will be there then.

My kids, grandkids and parents were all at my house when I got home yesterday. The grandkids are quite excited to have their Nana back.

My 10 year old granddaughter started being treated for lyme while I was away. I have to hold my tongue and see if they ask about Dr. W after observing me for awhile.

Like some of you, I imagine they want to wait and see.

My Dad who is 86 was quite interested in the whole thing but couldn't wrap his mind around the the affects of amalgam fillings. Oh well.

My husband was doing some research on the Biocom machine that Dr. W uses for testing. It seems it is (according to the internet) widely uses with vets.

I plan on looking for one and start barking. That machine is amazing and I would love to have access to one.

Unexpected. I realize the trip seems difficult. I can only say that when I decided I had to put all my eggs in a new basket, I knew I would have to go through whatever hardships came up and just get there.

I completely understand if you want to see how more people do but I couldn't wait for that. I am not suggesting you change your plans.

You can get the brochure gigi mentions from the company.

All for now.

Get travel insurance! I am thinking of going back and having my tonsils out [lol]
Posted by clairenotes (Member # 10392) on :
Question for Gigi and Nanadubo ~

When the body is being flooded with light, so to speak, do you feel any psychological benefit apart from how you might feel from being unburdened with LD?

Because I am imagining that there could be significant benefit in the area of mental/spiritual well-being.

Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
I think the Bicom device is about $20,000.

I do not remember where I got that price from.

My son went to a Bicom practitioner in hopes of helping an incurable autoimmune disease. He quit going after a couple of sessions so I do not know if it could have helped or not. The machine did indicate that he had high levels of some toxic metals that are commonly found in cigarette smoke.

D Bergy
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :

Did you purchase the bionic 880 machine? If so, did you carry it home or have it shipped and where did you buy it.

If not, what will the nosodes be used for?

Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Thank you Gigi for the information on how to order brochures.

I ordered 3 last night and want to give one to the Austrian MD/homeopath/Chiropractor who practices near here. She also rents office space from an osteopath who is suppose to also be very good.

If the Austrian MD is interested in learning how to treat Lyme patients with the Bionic 880 I think she will be excellent at it.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
what is a bicom machine?
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Let us know how you are doing NanaDubo - from time to time. We are all very interested in your progress.

Welcome home!

Have you recovered from the surgery?

I'm just curious... did you have to pay for the surgery. I hope you don't think I'm being nosey... I was just wondering how that works.

I'm sure it was completely unexpected so I was wondering if it was covered by the German gov't or if you have to pay for it. I have no idea how stuff like that works if you become ill in a foreign country & you aren't a citizen.

Send me a PM if you don't want to have all the info up on the message board.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
From a variety of experiences, I can tell you that you are expected to pay for the services in Germany just as you have to pay here. The first thing you sign when hospitalized is a piece of paper with all the pertinent info re your own insurance, and to fulfill a down payment for a portion of the expected cost. The locals don't, but apparently others do.

We learned that if you go on a trip to anywhere, it is wise to get some travel insurance for a minimal amount of money that covers all, or at least the excess of what your own coverage, such as medicare in our case, will not pay. If you don't pay, you will hear from doctors and hospitals or their agents until the matter is resolved, i.e. you pay what you owe.

You will be treated well in excellent facilities, even as a foreigner. But you are expected to pay just as anyone would have to pay for all services.

I had a stumble on a cobblestone on an earlier trip to Germany and x-rays were fully paid by my Travel Medical after the primary, in our case Medicare and AARP, paid first. Even the housecall by a doctor in a remote village in the wee hours of the night was paid. (about 100 Euros - if you are curious). A weeks hospital stay for my husband, without any surgical intervention, just plain old "get the high fever down", cost about 6000 Euros.

Nothing is free.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I got traveler's insurance for that kind of coverage when I'm in Germany. It was $59 for the whole trip and includes not only medical, but insurance on my baggage, cancellation, etc.

It's not for the medical treatment I'm getting from Dr. W, but if anything happens (like Nana's surgery) I'm covered.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Seems like it really makes sense to get the travelers insurance!

I have gone to Europe alot but I never thought to get it. I was fairly healthy back then, so I didn't think about it. I haven't been to Europe since about 2000.

Does it cover theft, too? Some hotel employee stole $500 out of my suitcase in Paris once. It was hidden but I guess they were clever... I didn't realize it was missing until I got to UK.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
No, it covers the baggage if the airline loses it ... I think, but am not sure, that it covers if it is lost and you have to buy things to use for the time it's lost (like last time I went to the LLMD and didn't have any toiletries or a change of clothes).

I mainly got it for medical ... after Nana's experience, LOL, otherwise I never would have even thought of it.
Posted by hanginginthere (Member # 11685) on :
Sixgoofy & steelbone--how I wish I could go with you (I'd even carry your bags!! [Smile] ) I'm so happy for you and for NanaDubo. Hopefully I can go in the spring!

In the meantime, I wanted to say that I emailed the link Gigi provided for the brochure and they were so kind & emailed me back within a couple hours! They sent all the information through email. It was very helpful and informative. Thanks again to Gigi for the helpful link!!

I'll be eagerly watching for your updates and I wish you both the very best!
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
I just wanted to tell everyone that I'm gonna go to Germany (for sure this time!) on the 21st. My first appointment is the 23rd. Like I said in my earlier post, my main worry was that I wasn't as "well" as six, steel, and gigi, and I also have detoxification impairment on the genetic level (per my HLA-DR genotype). My chiro that I see in conjunction with Dr. H had told me I'd better not until late November using muscle testing.

Although I absolutely trust my chiro on muscle testing with regard to nosodes & other items she's had experience with, she has had no experience with this machine. I figured with all the positive feedback, it'd be worth taking a gamble now since there's no way I'm gonna go during the below-freezing winter months.

With that said, I'm going in there with positive thinking with no expectations. Meaning I'll be open to whatever treatment Dr. W proposes & accepting of whatever the outcome may be. LIke Bob said in an earlier post, being on edge emotionally will put me in the worst position for a taxing trip.

More specifically, I certainly don't expect (in my wildest dreams) to feel 100% upon the end of 5 treatments. The best case scenario: I come back without lyme & co-infections, and can go to work on heavy metals & detox, areas where I trust I'll be in good hands with Dr. B and Dr. H

Like six, I will report on my progress whenever I can get my hands on an internet cafe.

Regardless of anything health-related, this will be the most beautiful trip I've ever taken, hands down!!!

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Wooohooo! I get to meet Joey, too! [woohoo]

Just a suggestion, Joey, compared to LA, Germany is going to be COLD even though it's not winter. Bring layers ... t-shirts, long sleeve shirts, sweaters, and a winter coat. [Smile]
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
I'll be there soon as well - October 27th is my first appt. See everyone then. [Smile]
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Well, it'll be a regular Lymenet party!! [Big Grin]
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
Haha don't worry six, I'll be neck deep in impenetrable wear =)
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :

Question for Gigi and Nanadubo ~

When the body is being flooded with light, so to speak, do you feel any psychological benefit apart from how you might feel from being unburdened with LD?

Because I am imagining that there could be significant benefit in the area of mental/spiritual well-being.


One does really not feel anything great except hope while holding the lighthead onto the body.
The light is not bright, not hot, not cold, it just feels like a little piece of plastic touching the skin.

The release happens very quickly for some people and very gradually for others when the photons are starting to do their work. My husband felt very little - no sensation of anything.

I noticed when I got well (long before I discovered the Bionic880 treatments) that dreams were coming back at night. I had not had a dream in many years. My night was always sort of nothing but black. I really look at dreams as a way to detox and when it turns into a nightmare occasionally I take it as a good sign - letting go of something?

The feeling of no longer suffering from Lyme after living with it for years is a wonderful thing. All I can say, not only did Lyme end for me, but it also took away of a mountain of mercury and toxic somethings that changed me into really a different person. Sometimes I do not know myself.

Without the toxin, the world around me is in much sharper focus. I wonder what it would have been had my mother not also had amalgam fillings that probably affected my life all along. So I always look at Lyme as the sneaky present that forced me into an extra effort to change. I know without my changing myself, I would not be where I am today. It does feel really wonderful and I feel I therefore live a rich life now. Yes, I am hoping for my husband to do another step up, but I am content with what I have today. Continuous learning has become my pasttime and living in the past is the past. I enjoy every day, no matter what it brings - navigatng around obstacles is exciting when it's done --- Lyme taught me a lot.

Being lymefree is real special.

Hope you reach that place soon.

Take care.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Yes, girls and boys, you are going to be living at 2100 feet altitude - be sure you dress warm and wear one layer that you can take off when you drive down into the valley to see the good doctor.
When we were there, he used to were walking shorts and boat shoes - that's how warm it was.

Mrs. Klein told me she always has two pair of shoes at hand - one for up on the hill in case of snow and the other for down in town where things are a bit warmer. She also wears an extra layer that she can peel of when she goes to the City.

That is the part I really enjoyed - doctors office and nothing but sick people - getting through the treatment and driving up the beautiful winding road to the Dobel. That's why they say you live ON the Dobel, not in Dobel. Beautiful and clean air! You will get well twice as fast.

Take care.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Yes, girls and boys, you are going to be living at 2100 feet altitude - be sure you dress warm and wear one layer that you can take off when you drive down into the valley to see the good doctor.
When we were there, he used to come in in walking shorts and boat shoes - that's how warm it was. He ain't your white coat doctor - I asked him that - why a white coat on your website??
He laughed, and said "they made me wear it..."

Mrs. Klein told me she always has two pair of shoes at hand - one for up on the hill in case of snow and the other for down in town where things are a bit warmer. She also wears an extra layer that she can peel of when she goes to the City.

That is the part I really enjoyed - doctors office and nothing but sick people - getting through the treatment and driving up the beautiful winding road to the Dobel, away from it all, to discover more up there and in the other valleys adjoining. That's why they say you live ON the Dobel, not in Dobel. Beautiful and clean air! You will get well twice as fast.

Just don't get lost on one of the mountain roads when it is getting dark - you will never find your way out of it because you won't see a life person up there to ask - not even a stray dog. There are always these valleys between the different villages, and some lead to nowhere...And the cows that time of year are home in the valley in the barn, so not even the cowbells will be your landmark. The Black Forest isn't called the Black Forest for nothing.

Take care.

Take care.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Claire - I don't know if your question is answered or not. I did not feel anything during my first biophoton treatment but later that evening I could feel cells communicating with each other.

I became almost overly excited. I was talking away a mile a minute and filled with a lot of energy. That night I also started releasing metals. This was not especially pleasant but as I knew that was what was going on I was able to see it as a good thing.

I think I wrote all of this before but will repeat it.

I felt the same kind of excitement during the second treatment instead of later in the evening. Toxins continued to be released and this is when I started having the "appendix problem".

In terms of psychological affects - not sure if we are thinking the same thing but I did a lot of emotional releasing. Many, many tears. Some of them were from the pure joy of starting to feel like myself again. Some of them were from the anguish I have experienced for so long and now it all seemed so simple.

Three days after my surgery I had my third treatment. I felt like a completely new person. We walked to town for dinner, I could not stop talking and knew I was beaming.

Even the woman waiting on us picked up on this. She came over to the table and gave me a flower pot, trying to describe the beautiful energy she saw. More tears!

Another issue I encountered was wondering what I would do with all my time and energy now that things were changing. Anyone who has not had lyme would most likely think this a ridiculous question. But I think you would all understand that.

So yes, for me, there were psychological things that came up which felt like another great cleansing.

Someone asked why I brought my nosodes back with me. They are mine and I paid for them.

Once lyme is no longer present through testing, and if you lived in Germany you would go back in 4 weeks for another test and treatment. Again in another four weeks.

I did not bring a machine back with me but I do intend to get one in the very near future.

Why if I no longer tested positive for lyme? Because to go back there for two more tests would be expensive and time consuming. But I do want to make sure it stays gone.

Dr. W said I did not need to come back and I did not need a machine. When I go back to Germany as I plan to, it will be for a holiday!

I live in a tic infested area. I found two crawling around on my ancient cat his morning. If there is even one, undetectable spirochete hiding out in my body someplace, I want to be able to be rid of it rather than suffer the consequences.

There is no test that can detect that.

That is why is I did not leave my nosodes behind.

So, it is early in the morning on Monday. Saturday was a travel day, Saturday night my kids, grandkids and parents were all here to welcome me home and have a little party.

Sunday, I went grocery shopping, cleaned out two years of crud from my house, rearranged furniture all day, cooked dinner, watched the redsox game, and slept for a few hours.

The two years of crud I cleaned up are an indication of my energy level before and after [Big Grin]

Six, you will love this one. One hour after returning home, I started reacting to something - I think there is mold to deal with! My shower had a leak a few years ago and the water went under the wood floor in my walk in closet.

I am going to get some appropriate filters for the mask I have and pull up the wood flooring myself. See what's underneath and get that cleaned up.

This morning I am driving an hour to my lymphatic drainage practitioner. When I woke up from surgery I could feel the lymph packed up in my neck and shoulder blades.

It is much better but I want to keep things draining properly. Probably way more than you want to hear about but trying to cover all bases.

Someone asked about the hospital bill. The hospital was not in the least concerned. Since I am not a resident and did not have German insurance, they said they would send me the bill which I could pass it on to my insurance company. I did not have to give them one cent.

Travel insurance will pay for this and I contacted my own insurance company and I would be covered by them as well.

I did have to pay another doctor 22 Euro just before I left, to take out my staples. I will be reimbursed for this.

I hope I answered everyone's questions. If not, let me know.
Posted by clairenotes (Member # 10392) on :
Back when I was doing a lot of energy medicine, i.e., acupuncture, as well as yoga (which is a type of energy work, as well as physical work) my world changed drastically for the better. This was even before dealing with an, as yet, undetected lyme disease that was kind of lurking in the background... not yet full-blown LD.

Much of my infection is down now and I am working mostly with my daughter. But I am fascinated by how certain practices/technologies can bring about such change in our personalities and/or sense of well-being so quickly. So hearing your stories with the light, so to speak, is of great interest.

Nanadubo, the experience with the woman bringing the flower pot over to you could very likely have been a reflection of all that was happening.

I think there is great potential here on many different levels.

Thanks so much, and sorry if you both had to repeat some things. I may have missed some of it in reading through the material.

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Nana, I don't think you could say too much, we're all ears. [Big Grin]

My bathroom is old. We live in a 92 year old house and we've redone the kitchen and kid's bathroom, but my bathroom is circa 1970. The shower seems to be an early model of those preformed showers and there is mold that grows in it. I don't think we have a mold problem anywhere else but the shower pan and maybe the wall behind the shower, but hubby is planning on tearing it all out while I'm gone.

So, I'll come home to a new bathroom! Or at least on its way to being new. [Smile]

I don't think this mold is the bad kind though after my experience of getting rid of the bed. I don't think I would have had that severe detox reaction if I were still being exposed, but nonetheless, it's good to get rid of it.

What you just said reinforces that we need to rip out this bathroom.

Funny about the dirt! I'm a clean freak, LOL! I started feeling better again Saturday and spent the day cleaning our room, which is the whole finished attic, so it was quite the chore. Hubby helped and was surprised how much work it really is vacuuming, LOL. Every time I have good days, I start cleaning, so my family judges how I'm doing by whether or not I'm cleaning something .... I'll say I'm doing poorly, they'll say, no you're not, you're cleaning!

GiGi, you make me nervous to drive there!!! We used to live out in the country, about 15 miles from a small town and about 7 miles from a smaller town (the other way). It was a winding road and yes, you had to know where you were going, but at least there were cows, and even buffalo! Hmm, but don't tell Paul, he gets to drive in Germany, LOL!
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Sounds wonderful Nana Dubo.
Cells communicating: can you explain that better? How did you know?
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Six, don't worry. Driving from the house to the doctor is a well travelled road - people go into town to work and go home that way. Only when you venture further out into the country side, will you need to pay attention to where you are going.
Lots of the same green trees!

Sounds good, Nano. Do go easy. Your body is very busy now.

Take care.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Oxygenbabe - I don't know exactly how to explain it. I'm very sensitive as to what is going on in my body. I could just feel it and since it was something I hadn't given any thought to, I just trusted the feeling.

Tiny little "things" being excited inside of me. Sorry, just don't know any other way to say it.

I just returned from an appointment with the person who does energy work, cranial sacral and lymphatic drainage on me. She said she noticed quite a remarkable difference in the amount of energy moving and things draining properly since she saw me two days before my trip.

She also pointed out that she felt the treatment in Germany was so successful for me because my frame of mind was good, I had a positive outlook, and every cell in my body was ready and wanting to heal.

Glad someone besides me could feel it - along with the waitress in Germany [Big Grin]
Posted by willow way (Member # 16605) on :
Hi all, Just wanted to tell all the bionic fans that I will be going with sixgoofy and steelbone to Germany and will report with my progress. I have all sorts of other issues ( virus, metals, mold etc.) and am very excited to see how all of this can be helped. I also want to thank GiGi, Nana, and others for all of the informative info on the bionic. This is a big adventure and I can't wait.

Take care
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Ruth have a really wonderful and healing trip.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
ruth--- you're like me!! i have the whole kitchen sink.

can't wait to meet you too!

Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
ruth and others---

did you just book your appt and flights and all on a short notice?

was it pretty easy to do it that way?

i'm thinking that i would try in february but i might as well go sooner if it is that easy to "get in."

Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
nyjohn - I made my appointments etc. well in advance because I knew when exactly I wanted to go. Others have made appointments fairly quickly.

I would suggest making the appt. with Dr. W if you know when you want to go and then watch the air fares if you want. I think they will be getting busier and busier, although it sounds as though folks are not so eager to travel there in the winter.

Just my opinion.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :

i made my appointment for the 23rd a week ago... so that's about a 1 month queue.

The problem with going in the winter is, it's likely to snow starting late november. That may be a problem getting around from, say, the Klein guesthouse we're all staying at, to Pforzheim to see the doc (30 min drive). I've heard there is a bus connecting the two, but I'm not too sure about whether it runs in the winter? Maybe others can chime in on this

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Yes, winter is starting. But trains and buses, most German's lifelines, are going to run. I have never missed a day's school, which necessitated a train, because of snow. Schools therefore are rarely closed -- and so is everything else.

The roads are cleared early in the AM, because so many people depend on trains and buses, much more I think that here.

As long as you do not need a wheelchair to get around, which makes it more difficult in some trains, and are not afraid of driving in winter weather, you should be okay.

Wait until spring and summer if you don't feel comfortable. Both bus and train systems are fabulous in most of Europe, but especially in Germany. When the big hand of the clock reaches the full minute indicated on the schedule, the train pulls out! Summer or winter, with hardly an exception. That is the only way a rail system, with so many trains going in all directions, can function.

I did a lot of driving last fall and early this year, Jan - Mar in Germany when things were white - and I managed fine. But stick to your comfort level. Dr. Woitzel and the Bionic880 are going to be there later, hopefully.

Take care.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Yes, I would imagine the Germans are used to dealing with the snow as you say GiGi. I know when it snows a "normal" amount for us, it's business as usual whereas a little south of here it would shut things down for a couple days. Last spring we got a rare blizzard and it shut us down for a couple days .... but that was not normal for us.

NYJohn, I made the appt. with Dr. W about six-eight weeks out, then booked with Mrs. Klein at the guesthouse, then made my plane reservations. It was really pretty easy though we were calling for our appt with Dr. W during a holiday week in Germany, so it took time for him to get back to us
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
I live in new england..snow in the winter is a way of life...In fact i love driving in the snow
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Originally posted by steelbone:
i love driving in the snow

Okay, I take back what I said earlier .... if there's any snow, I'm driving! [Wink] I don't love driving in the snow, but I'm rather good at it.

Yeah, in the north, snow is a way of life, you have to learn to deal with it.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Nana & GiGi- thanks for your reply about the hospital stay. I was just curious. I hope I didn't sound nosey. I don't have health insurance.

I'm not planning on going just yet but I think it's something to consider if you do decide to go. Be sure to get travel insurance just in case you need any further medical assistance!

Especially, if you don't have regular health insurance.

Good trip to everyone!

I haven't been to Germany but I've been to other European countries in the winter & it was never a problem for me. You just need to bring appropriate clothing.

Some European places have a bit less heating than in the US, though. You may want to include long johns...

I live near NYC & it gets very cold & icy here - so, I guess I'm used to it.

[ 06. October 2008, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: sparkle7 ]
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
this is all so exciting. [Smile]

i'm really happy for you, nanadubo.

my question is: it seems to me that it's necessary to purchase a bionic 880 to preclude having to return to germany every month for checkups? unfortunately, the bionic is much too expensive for me and i would never be able to afford it. i'm wondering if eventually we can group folks together by area and all chip in for shared machines.. though of course it would be ideal to have a trained practitioner overseeing testing and any further treatment that might be necessary.

what do you all think?
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
To slightly change the subject, I have been helping my husband detox the heavy metals that are really coming full force since the Bionic/Lyme treatment cleared.

Today I did a urin test (husband) and found the following:
Mercury, lead, nickle und cadmium.
I found fungal toxins.
I found the following xenobiotics:

HALO Group = Iodine, chlorine bromine, fluoride, energy Boost 70, Vermaplex, Multi Vitamins

I found the DDT Group = Diazinon: insecticide and its residue DDE; Dieldrin: Insecticide, long lasting and highly toxic Demon. Posticide used in homes and office buildings.

I found CBC Group = Captan, used as fungicie on fruits and flowers. Coumaphos: Organ phosphorus systemic insecticide administered especially to cattle and poultry as feed addidive. Bromophos: Pesticide.

In another post today I said that the photons from the Bionic instrument keep on being effective and this is clear evidence of the effects of the treament with photons, way beyond simply Lyme. I have never specifically treated the environmental toxins with the Bionic. They are just coming out with the rest of the Lyme.

This confirms to me again what Dr. K. has been preaching that Lyme always has company: it never was alone, but has many companions (besides co-infections), all of which must go or at least be reduced to regain total health. My husband was still gainfully employed at the age of 70, flying around the country in perfect health - I don't think he ever took an aspirin in his life!

I keep looking to find the bottom of the barrel. So glad I have this tool. Wishing I could share it with all. But doing my best to convince someone to get one.

The friend I have treated with our Bionic came by today. He still is totally lymefree almost a month after the last treatment. Today I tested him and also found heavy metals and fungi. He feels "good, light and clear". He had been sick since I met him in 1998. He looks like a different person from what he was even a year ago.

Take care.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Hey people going to Pforzheim, if you come down to south of Germany (2.5 hour drive from dr. W.), contact me. I live just next to Konstanz, we can take a tea or coffee together!

Send me a PM!

There's also a fantastic homeopathic nosode that I use for years now to prevent new ticks with borrelia to bite us. It works very well, ask dr. W. where you guys can purchase a Borrelia nosode LM4 or LM6. You only need one bottle and it'll last years for about 25 dollars.

After the Bionic, not getting re-infected is the most important, I suppose.

These nosodes are sold in Switzerland, but I don't know if they are sold in Germany.

Wishing you guys good luck.
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
hi selma! always good to see your posts here. [Smile]

are you planning on getting dr. w's treatment, by any chance? i'm going to follow everyone's progress and if things keep looking up i may try to make an appointment for sometime next summer. would be awesome to meet you!!
Posted by designt1 (Member # 16568) on :
you all are really making me want to travel to go see Dr. W

The only problems I have is being too busy at work and being scared to death of flying [Big Grin]
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
thanks for the replies!

best wishes to everyone heading over there, i cannot wait to hear the success stories!
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Hey Heiwalove,

Good to see you here too. I'm not following everything in lymenet now, but the Bionic seems promising. I'm symptomless and not treating lyme at all.

How are you doing? Hopefully better than a few months ago!!

I'm treating yeast-fungi now, trying Sanum products for the moment, having some strange but good experiences.

But I know lyme can come back at any time as it did before. I never could drop all herbs for borrelia before, like now though. Now it's the great first time since 2005 that I take zero stuff for lyme, not even astragalus or cats claw.

I know it's fully dormant for the first time after first infection! [woohoo]

Absolutely nothing tests (ART or muscle tests).

For the first time too I'm not reacting to EMFs like before. I can spend hours here in this same computer that would have made me so sick in minutes not too long ago.

Another thing that changed lately is the cold extremeties I had much before lyme. Still not solved, but I feel less desperate (I had frozen hands and feet even during mild weather).

So things are slowly improving. It is so true that our problems are not only borrelia.

I'll try Photon Wave in the next days to clear mercury (said to work in 3 sessions, who knows?), the woman who'll treat me knows the company that produces the Bionic, she said it is good stuff too.

The principle of Photon Wave is light through the eyes plus homeopathics (mercury, whatever), then the body does the rest. Each session lasts few minutes.

It seems PW can be used with borrelia nosodes too. I wonder though how to measure if it worked in my case, as lyme is fully dormant for the moment.

Let's see what is the outcome with PW and then decide if I go to Pforzheim sometime this winter or spring. It's a bit hard to treat when one is symptomless but I don't want to regret later!

I hope you are feeling better!!

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Selma, I have tested and tested with every means since treatments with Bionic880 (June-July), --- no sign of Lyme in any category - no coinfections - no Epstein Barr. None. Not at any nosode potency - highest or lowest.

Just heavy metals running out - and now followed by fungi/mold.

Exactly by the book as preached by Dr. K. -- "all hang out together." One goes, all others are vulnerable and go. I keep getting the advice, to just remove one intruder after the other - if I can still find one.

The remaining chore is much easier, because the major players are gone, which makes all energetic testing much more distinct/cleaner, picking the ongoing treatment is decided by energetic testing and, if done properly, all remains smooth and uneventful, except reducing what is left of the accumulation during years of the diseased state.

I hope everyone will have a chance for photons, the right kind, soon. All good things take time.

I love it, I love it. It feels so good to watch it happening to my husband.

Take care.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
There is another success report I received today:

Another person from the US is done with treatment and cleared all Lyme. Feeling relatively good and very excited - after many years of Lyme.

The person does not normally post and probably most of them are getting shy about doing so - remembering the type of reception they receive here. Just remember, I didn't tell you fairytales when I first told about the Bionic back in May - it is all for very, very real.

Take care.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :

This new person you reported on--where was she or he treated with the bionic 880? Hiker53
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
It would be great if they post their testimonials here. I believe the bashers are at bay. If you have had the treatment we would certainly like to hear from you and will do our best to protect your comments and support you as best we can. [Big Grin]
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Sorry - not Gigi, but I know of a woman who arrived in Germany a week after I did and is leaving there today. She will most likely post and is lyme free. I believe it is the same person Gigi referred to.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
I go back to the idea that a practitioner go over there and train. Going to Germany is really a hardship financially and physically for a lot of us.

I'm going to ask my friend who is helping open a center here, again, to consider it. She has a guy who has done ART and homeopathics for 20 years. Its just up his alley. Someone needs to go over and be present with Dr. W and really get a feel for how he does it, I believe.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Selma, re: the nosode--who makes it? I remember you posting about this on LymeAid Buhner. Do you really prevent tickbites with it?

Thats really interesting. DO you use both LM's and you take it before you go on a hike in the woods or something?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
O2babe, with the inexpensive rooms and cost of medical treatment, I really think it's cheaper to treat in Germany than to go somewhere in the US for three weeks. The ticket is more, but everything else is less.

Of course, if we all had docs locally it would be different ... but this is my perspective of having to travel by airplane to see my LLMD.

I agree, it would be great if we had more options.

I leave tomorrow, and no, I don't have my blog set up. Time has gotten away from me and having my herx yesterday and the day before made me have to drop the least urgent of my tasks. I will post it when I get it set up .... hopefully tonight.
Posted by jamieL (Member # 16563) on :
Six, Ruth, and all the rest who are going to Germany,

I hope you come back feeling wonderful and completely Lyme-free!

Nana, Congrats on your successful trip!

Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
My issues are not expense, actually.
It's flying: I have some ear and balance issues, from blowing out my ear in a hyperbaric session at Julia's--boejr here at lymenet--she has a monochamber where you lie flat and I suspect she pressurized me too fast and I unknowingly did not equalize the left ear. It was excruciating pain later that day and filled with fluid and has never been teh same since. I continue with my home hyperbaric. I used her chamber that one time when my chamber was out for repair for a seam leak, and gone for a month. This was a few years ago. I've done a ton of hyperbaric in clinics and at home with no problem, but that one session WAS a problem, and I don't know why, so I don't want anyone to get the impression that this is a typical risk with hyperbaric as I did THREE solid months in multichambers in clinics without a single ear problem, and years at home with no problem. I don't know what the issue was with that and so I don't enjoy flying since then unless I have to because of my ear popping. In addition, my lyme symptoms get worse on a plane because of low oxygen. I don't speak German except if I quote the poet Rilke ha ha. I have chemical sensitivities and mold sensitivities and could end up in a hotel room that was unsafe for me. There are so many uncertainties and that is why I'd rather be here in my own country given all these issues it could be so stressful, I mean, I'd rather BUY a machine myself and learn how to use it, but I feel that the reports from the doctor show he is simply a good clinician (Nana Dubo's appendix) and you can't make up for that, so that I feel a practitioner here should study with him. We'll see.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
o2babe you could take a ship to Europe and drive. You don't have to take a plane. Just a thought. [Big Grin]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
There are many reasons why someone would not want to undertake this journey.

I had a hundred reasons not to take my husband in a wheelchair - not an easy task for someone my age. There is another Lyme person in a wheelchair overthere now, and my hope and prayer follow her every day. The desire, the will to overcome has to be very strong.

The first trip I took on, by myself when still very sick, I had a bloody nose all the way over and could not remember at times which airport I was at...... We have taken many trips to seek help, even when we both were still ill; this was by far the most rewarding.

I talk a lot to myself - positive talk!

Take care.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
I know I am way too sick to travel... I am actually very scared of what a trip like that what do to me...

I wonder if the Bionic880 gets rid of Neuro symptoms? These are the symptoms that keep me ill and bedridden

constant dizziness, body feels constanty in motion, feel like I am constantly on an elevator or treadmill while trying to walk... veering off... severe head pressure... any movement makes all these symptoms much worse. When I travel to my LLMD which goes into a higher altitude.. I get VERY sick.

I am looking for anything to get rid of these horrible neuro symptoms I have been living with for 18 months straight 24/7
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
UnexpectedIls, I was not too keen on a long trip myself. I was fully anticipating feeling much worse from the trip than before I got on the plane.

My mantra was, "just get there, just get there, just get there."

The choice for me was to either continue to feel ill, or to risk feeling even worse due to the trip and have faith that I would be well after being treated.

It seems huge but in retrospect, a small price to pay to feel great and not live through that for more months, more years etc.

Having someone there to support you and look after you is very important.
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :

You can do it. I'm not looking forward to thr trip either.. Had to get some meds from my dr to knock me out on the plane.

Just think positive. If all three of us come back feeling great hopefully you will find it in ur inner self to make the trip.

Hang in there [Smile] I want to see everyone to get well...Even the nay sayers..

Don't stop fighting [Smile]
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :

You can do it. I'm not looking forward to thr trip either.. Had to get some meds from my dr to knock me out on the plane.

Just think positive. If all three of us come back feeling great hopefully you will find it in ur inner self to make the trip.

Hang in there [Smile] I want to see everyone to get well...Even the nay sayers..

Don't stop fighting [Smile]
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Everyone leaving soon have a really good healing trip!!!!

I wish I was going now too.

Melatonin has helped me fly long distances with zero jet lag before and it also has helped me sleep on long flights.
Posted by rachellemarie (Member # 16419) on :
Is it safe to assume that when you go, give yourself about 3 weeks for your return flight back to the states?

What and where is the best place to stay while there? I'm seriously considering going around February of 2009 if I can financially pull it off.

I would be interested too, if there are others on here from Arizona, to purchase a machine together and share. I suppose that would only work if we all lived in the Phoenix area.


Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
Three weeks is what most are doing. I think some really sick people that dont buy the machine are staying for 4 weeks. I could be wrong about this.

Sorry i dont have the link to where i'm staying.

When I get back i could give u all kinds of details about the trip.

email address is [email protected]
Posted by rachellemarie (Member # 16419) on :

That would be wonderful. I haven't traveled outside the US much, besides Mexico, and would be totally lost!!! That is all I need on top of being sick...getting lost in Germany and not finding my way home! [Smile]

When are you going to Germany? I will definitely hold on to your email and get in touch with you when you return.

Thanks a lot!

Posted by evgen (Member # 14118) on :
Hello there folks.
The economic collapse in our country makes plans for visiting Dr. W uncertain for me now. Nevertheless I will enjoy more healing stories from Six, Steel and co. So far I have questions on testing: energetic and muscle ones. If someone has this info, share it pls.

Best of luck to all.
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :

i'm leaving tomorrow. 7:25 pm flight me and 2 others. Plus a 4th coming a week later... So i will be able to give you some real good feed back. We will try and post updates while we are there. But no gaurantees [Smile]

Take care

I'm 36 also [Smile]
Posted by sunshinyday (Member # 14337) on :
Six, Ruth and Paul - Have a great trip! I wish I was with you.

I hope you all come back successfully treated for Lyme!

Best wishes and prayers are with you.

Posted by TS96 (Member # 14048) on :
praying for a safe trip for all of you

May you come home leaving the old behind and bodies renewed!

Six, Did you tell Dr. H and L about your trip? What did they think?

Lastly where can we read your blog?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
The place to stay -

Thank you for all the well-wishes!!!!

TS, nothing. Dr. H said basically nothing, we just talked about his treatment of me and my need to be off meds for a time. He showed no opinion, which was the right thing for him to do since he was unfamiliar with the technology.

I'm not intentionally keeping my blog spot secret ... I just haven't set it up yet, ROFL!!! I may just do it at myspace to keep it simple.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Have a safe trip Six, Steel and the other person... sorry I dont know your name!!

Steel... Thank you for your kind words!! [Smile]

Nana-- How are you doing??

I wish you all healing to the highest degree!!
Posted by willow way (Member # 16605) on :
Very excited to leave. Thanks to all for your well wishes. Like Paul said...we will try to post our progress if possible.

Take care,
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Post and let us know how you're doing.

Bob yeah right, cargo ship for me [Wink] . I think not, I'd rather buy a machine for myself! Let's see how people do. I feel I could convince a practitioner to take this on if it really is legitimate, and go study with Dr W for a few weeks.
Posted by jl123 (Member # 15594) on :
"TS, nothing. Dr. H said basically nothing, we just talked about his treatment of me and my need to be off meds for a time. He showed no opinion, which was the right thing for him to do since he was unfamiliar with the technology."'

My doc in here in nyc has also said absolutely nothing and refuses to talk about this? I wonder why most docs do not want to reach out more to find out more.

PS Does any1 know how the different groups who have bought the 880 (maryland group etc) on their own are doing with it?
thanks, Jeremy
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
MDs and bionic

jl: the bionic is considered energetic medicine, there have been no clinical trials on its usage for anything. It is solely experimental for the time being, and I imagine it will be pigeonholed like this for years.

LLMDs are already sticking out their necks to treat us with long-term antibiotics when that goes against IDSA guidelines. It's one thing to alter dosage and duration of conventional treatments, it's another thing entirely to start trumpeting an experimental treatment with no listed side effects or official safety record.

I take it as a good sign that top docs are voicing no opinion on this. When I asked my west coast Dr. H if he had any thoughts about me going to germany, he said "None. I have one patient there right now." I view that as him being in wait-and-see mode. After all, they could just say the idea is garbage! But LLMDs have seen crazy ideas such as rife, hyperbaric, ondamed, homeopathics, become almost standard conjunctive lyme treatment over the years.

Posted by jl123 (Member # 15594) on :
joey, thanks for the thoughtful words.

However someone on another thread has just commented upon a LLMD that they claim has been monitoring and sending patients to Germany?

Here is the thread:;f=1;t=072724

No judgments just trying to find out experiences. JL
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
best of wishes to all 3 of you!

i am thinking i might even go over in the end of november, depending how you 3 progress and report!

enjoy germany, too!

Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
Thanks all for the kind words

Support is always a good thing [Smile]
Posted by hanginginthere (Member # 11685) on :
Have a safe trip everyone! My thoughts and prayers will be with you all.

I'm very excited for you guys!!! And I'm doing my very best not to be overcome with jealousy [Big Grin]

Keep in touch when you have a chance! Until I can go too, I will be...

Posted by ctlyme (Member # 9022) on :
Have a great trip everybody.
Come home well.

I was wondering if the poeple going could write down the 5 worst symptoms on this site and to what degree it bothers you.

Often times when we get ill and then get better we may forget some things.

We could get a real sense of your improvement that way.

Jsut a thought.

Have a safe trip.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Let me know when you get a machine O2, I'll stop by. [lol]
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Current five worst symptoms -

Fatigue - debilitating at times
Air hunger - can be severe, is almost daily
Insomnia - cannot sleep without medication (Lyrica and Lunesta), even with meds have trouble at times
Muscle aches/fibromyalgia - take Lyrica and Norco
GI distress - pain after eating, constipation/diarrhea, lack of appetite

I have had many symptoms resolve with abx treatment, but these are the ones that are left.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
my fab five (honestly can't say one is less severe than the other)

1. physical fatigue
2. cognitive impairment, mental fatigue
3. sleep impairment (can't sleep at all without meds)
4. postexertional malaise (can't tolerate any aerobic activity)
5. postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (can't stand up, walk for longer than 20-30 min)
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
If anyone starts to feel sickly and uncomfortable while on the flight over ask for oxygen. It does help and they used to be required to give it to people for free and probably still are.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Thank you so much Angelica, I didn't know that ... I will ask if I need it!

Okay, here's my blog ... I posted a summary of my Lyme history. [Smile]
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
speaking of oxygen, i rented an inogen one portable oxygen concentrator for the flights. This will allow a constant supply of oxygen for the 11-hr flight. running me about $500 for the whole month, but i consider this a worthwhile expense to prevent relapsing symptoms from hypoxia.

i really benefited from ordering oxygen tanks on domestic flights.

And angelica, i don't know about international flights, but they did not carry oxygen tanks on domestic flights unless you requested them. They also cost $100/tank. We have to consider the reality of planes skimping on any dead weight with higher oil prices.

Posted by liesandmorelies (Member # 15323) on :
Mojoey and everyone else going,

I will be thinking of you all and am so excited for you.

So many of us will be eagerly awaiting your news. Please know that you are in my thoughts and prayers as you travel abroad.

I hope this is the next step to being healthy for you all and am just as excited as this trip will be monumental for us all if it works.

So many are pulling for you all to do well and get healed.

I am with you in thought!

Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I tried to research this but could not find the current FAA regulations. I think the airlines on all flights have to carry extra oxygen in tanks in case a passenger is having difficulty breathing or becomes ill in flight.

If you just say can I have some oxygen it might not appear but if you ever really do feel badly and if you DEMAND it they have to give you some.

It is not meant to be used for the whole flight but sometimes just breathing on a tank for a 5 minutes will help. It can be very calming.

"``The Federal Aviation Administration requires commercial flights to carry at least two oxygen dispensers''
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
yes angelica,

i'm sure they have some for emergency situations. And yes, if the passenger says they need oxygen, they will treat it as an emergency. You can imagine what would happen PR-wise if they didn't.

However, I'm talking about patients that can stand to benefits greatly from having continous supply of oxygen for long flights. Just something to consider for patients that are hesitant to travel due to fear of altitude-related relapses. And like 5 minutes of oxygen can be calming, so can 11 hours of worth make an overseas flight downright tolerable =)
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I agree with everything you are saying. I just wanted everyone to know do not hesitate to ask for oxygen if you do not feel well.

I think I had to have it once on a flight. It was so long ago I can't remember it but I think I had to ask twice and then it did appear and it did help.
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Good luck everyone! I'm so excited for you guys and can't wait to read updates. I hope that all goes smoothly and you are healed.

Take care,
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Good luck everyone! I'm so excited for you guys and can't wait to read updates. I hope that all goes smoothly and you are healed.

Take care,
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
sorry if i sounded condescending angelica!! i didn't mean to at all.

Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
No worries and I hope you have a really wonderful trip.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Trying to assist a person a couple of days ago (not a poster here) to get an appointment with Dr. W., I found that they are no longer accepting new patients until the next year. They were in the process of moving when my husband and I were overthere in June. The move was delayed, but may take place soon. So they need time and are closed over the Holidays.

My strong feeling is that the recent nasty public commentary here on the board about the doctor and his people was not appreciated. It certainly made me feel horrible, even though I had nothing to do with that person's visit there, except that I provided the original information here on the board about the Bionic880 success and the doctors using it in their practice.

We certainly had the best care and a most pleasant experience in that office by both Dr. W. and his staff.

I would also like to add here that they are not able to enter into e-mail conversations with the many patients they serve, so please be considerate.

Taking a dictionary always helps when traveling to a foreign country.

I know you will understand what I am trying to say.

Hoping your trip will be as successful as ours.
It's a beautiful life without Lyme.

Take care.

P.S. Here just a few notes to help you plan:

The Kleins are wonderful people and try to be very helpful. However, they do not clean your apartment during your stay. There is no maid service as in a hotel.

You may want to take enough clothing to last you - Mrs. Klein will help with a tub of laundry (for an extra fee)if really necessary during your stay. This is not customary, however, when staying in a vacation apartment. Many Europeans spend their vacations in "vacation apartments". People bring enough or go to cleaners in town; besides a drying rack on your balcony, there is no dryer - the cost is much too high and people are very concerned with conserving energy.

Hope this helps. And happy travels!
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
i'm so excited for all of you!! travel safely. [Smile]
Posted by willow way (Member # 16605) on :
Hi, Here is a list of my 5 symptoms:

The chronic and debilitating fatigue
I have big problems with my eyes and the muscles around them
Air hunger
Weight loss and very poor digestion
Cognitive impairment, poor memory

Take care
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :

Has anyone looked into being treated by this guy (looks to be an ND) in Spain?
Posted by sunshinyday (Member # 14337) on :
Posted by joylindy (Member # 16501) on :
I just returned from seeing Dr. W in Germany. I am lyme free after 5 treatments! I am absolutely delighted. I chose to buy a machine (Bionic 880) so that I can do a couple of follow up treatments for borreliosis (at Dr. W's recommendation) as well as learning to use it to address other issues in my system.

I also bought the biotensor, and am enjoying testing my foods and supplements while gaining confidence and practice in using this instrument.

I found Dr. W and his staff to be most caring and accommodating in every way. I am truly grateful for his expertise and help.

I followed the trend and stayed at the Guesthouse Klein, and was absolutely delighted with the apartment, the location, and the kindness of Karin and her husband Manfred.

All in all it was a very positive experience.

I especially want to thank GiGi for her posts this summer on the Bionic, and for taking time in phone calls and emails to help answer my questions.

I have only posted a few times on lymenet, and communicated with a few of you. I have appreciated the information and support. I found out that I had lyme only this summer, at the end of July, after many years of suffering.
My major symptoms have been extreme fatigue and brain fog. Other symptoms have included depression and anxiety, joint pain, neuralgia,thyroid disease and digestive problems.

I know I have continued healing to do to restore my health, but I am on my way and believe that the Bionic 880 treatments were worth it in every way.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Congratulations joylindy!

It sounds like you had a very healing experience in Germany. Thank you for sharing your experience and continue to improve.
Posted by ctlyme (Member # 9022) on :
Thanks for sharing Joylindy.

Happy to hear you had a good experience and got home feeling better than when you left.

Can you tell us to what degree your symptoms have lessened or been completely relieved.

Did Dr W encourage you to purchase a machine because you needed more treatment?

Again, thanks for sharing
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Yeah Joy!!!

Congratulations! I'm so happy for you. I am so interested in the Bionic, I keep checking this thread for new replies and it's so exciting to hear such positive results from so many people.

I am thinking of going, of course it depends on if our house sells so we can use the equity to pay for it all. I wish there was a doctor in the US who could do this.

Anyhow, congrats again,

Posted by jamieL (Member # 16563) on :

When did Dr. W think he could see new patients again?
Posted by mikej2323 (Member # 8913) on :

Could you please email me at my email down below when you can? Thanks.

[email protected]

Posted by hanginginthere (Member # 11685) on :
Mike, she's in Germany for three weeks, but she has a blog you can check for updates:
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Jami, it is best for you to call them in person. Their plans are at the moment I talked to them last not to take on new patients until next year.
The are expecting to move offices and then there are Holidays. But do call - things may change or may have changed since I talked with them.

The phone number is somewhere in the beginning of this thread. Consider that they are nine hours ahead from Pacific Coast time, six hours ahead East Coast Time. Closed on Wed and Fri afternoons. Do not call at lunch hour and do not leave message on recorder. They have trouble listening to unclear phone numbers and don't have time to repeat listening to messages. So try until you get a person on the line.

For certain, they will schedule people for next year. I don't know if they do it this early. So suggest you call them. Okay?

Take care.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Mike, are you or were you aware of the Bionic treatment? I assumed of course you were when you mailed me. If not, please e-mail me privately.

Take care.
Posted by evgen (Member # 14118) on :
Good news from joylindy. [woohoo] I am getting convinced more and more of the Bionics effectiveness. Impaitient to hear more from the october group.
Thanks God we have Dr. W!

Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
anyone hear from the group over there now?
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
I know, I'm anxiously awaiting any news.
Posted by karatelady (Member # 7854) on :
I've been thinking about Sixgoofykids a lot today ~ was her appointment yesterday? Is she
roaming the countryside, lol, or taking it easy detoxing?

I can't wait.......................

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
If Six has proven Lyme (the energetic way,) she should be having her second treatment Thursday, I think. I hope the mold will keep quiet while the spirochetes are being pursued. Lets keep our fingers crossed ---- when we were overthere I kept thinking of Betty Davies and her bumpy ride!, but it never came.

The best to Six and Paul and Ruth and all the others under the light.

Take care.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Hi All, Steel is waiting to get on the Klein's internet so I'll keep this short .... we're here, I have a heavy Lyme load, he said I have had it at least ten years (which I knew). You can read about it on the blog, but I really think this can work. [Smile]
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Yeah Six,
thanks for the update! I've been checking daily to see if there were updates from anyone.

I hope that everything goes smoothly for you!!

Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Congrats Joylindy! I got to meet her in Germany but was finished up a week before she did.

A great place to meet new friends and watch them get well!

What a wonderful thing it must be for Mrs. Klein at the guesthouse - to watch people dragging themselves in (like I did) and go home with a big smile on their face!
Posted by mikej2323 (Member # 8913) on :
Yes- I know she's in Germany...which is the reason I post. If she's checking here and her blog on a computer- I'm hoping she can email me quick. I can't find anywhere on her blog to PM.

Six- could you email me when you can?

[email protected]

Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
correction - I got to meet joylindy, not six.

Sixgoofy and I have been in contact quite a bit the last couple of months and she is intentionally not receiving pms through her blog. Just a place for her to write about her experiences while in Germany.
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Nana (and any others who wish to chime in),

I was just wondering how your food intolerances are, now that you have completed the Bionic 880 treatment. Have you been able to eat gluten yet?

I cannot tolerate any grains at all, in addition to lactose, potatoes, cane sugar and soy. Even a molecule of wheat gluten leaves me ill for 2 weeks. It would be so nice to hear that Bionic treatment would clear this up!!
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
zombie_mummy I am gluten intolerant too. I am hoping treatment with the Bionic 880 when I make it to Germany helps with gluten intolerance.

I dreamed I ate chocolate ice cream in a waffle cone last night.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
From my experience, the leaky gut and heavy metal toxicity has to be addressed first. It takes a long time after the Bionic treatment and the Lyme is eradicated that the leaky gut can heal. But only if the heavy metals are also dealt with.
Leaky gut brought about by environmental toxins and heavy metals is closely tied to allergies of all kinds. Wheat/Gluten is one of the most difficult to get rid of. So is Dairy.

I was allergic to everything including wool, silk and most foods. I am no longer allergic to anything that I am aware of.

Only after I cleared my system of the heavy metals and dental toxins (mercaptans and thioethers) was I able to get totally well. Lyme was just a part of the problem, even though I thought that is all it would take. I was fine, totally fine, before the Bionic treatment. But my husband still needs attention for heavy metals, mold and fungi, etc. Layer by layer, following the Bionic Lyme treatment. Not all can be accomplished in 2-1/2 weeks. Our body would not survive if all were attempted at once.

But, the major problem, the Lyme spirochetes and all that came with it (Babesia, Bartonella, etc.) are all gone, done with. And that makes the remainder of the problems much easier to deal with.

Take care.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Zombie_Mummy, I haven't been playing around with wheat since I got back. I have found a nice European Sourdough Rye that has no wheat or yeast that is keeping my toast habit happy.

Other things that I have dabbled with that I normally stay away from (sugar and dairy) don't seem to bother me although I have only experimented with them as they are not a part of my normal diet anyway.

Dr. W had said once the yeast was out of my gut I could eat what I wanted. The yeast is gone but I do not intend to invite it back.

I still have metals to deal with. As Gigi has said, this is crucial and will be the frosting on the cake for me- so to speak [lol]

In other words, although I can probably handle some foods I couldn't before, I am not going to play around until my dental work is finished and my metal load is down.

Hope that helps.

Bob - if you are reading this, your mailbox is full and I sent you an email [Wink]
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Thanks nanadubo opened up some more room in the old mailbox. [Big Grin]
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
i have had 2 treatments so is certainlky helping

back pain is my biggest issue...slowly getting better

had back surgery 13 yrs ago so a lot of bugs there so it will take some time..i have no doubt this treatment will cure me...

My only concern is will i need more then 6 treatments.just my concern not the dr's..Dr w thinks i will be fine.
Dr w and his staff are flat out awesome..some of the nicest people on the planet

will give u another upadfte next week..
Posted by jamieL (Member # 16563) on :

I can't believe this thread is on page two! [lol]
Posted by Alv (Member # 15192) on :
Look at that is very interesting.

The IR biophoton "ENHANCES THE IMMUNE SYSTEM by increasing the number of "killer" cells by up to 900%"

How important is light on our LIFE!!!

[ 20. October 2008, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: Alv ]
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
thank you alv!

i posted the site on my blog if you don't mind. Those that claim there is no scientific evidence or documented research behind the therapeutic use of biophotons, please take a look at the list of current research.

Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
mOjey-- When are you leaving for Germany?? I can't wait to see your progress!! [Smile]
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Yes Joey,
I'm excited for you too. Will you keep a blog like Six to share your progress? Is anyone else from Lymenet going with you this time around?

Please keep us updated if possible!!

Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
yes I'll be posting as often as I can on the blog listed below. I think scott is going a week after I, but not sure if he's staying at the klein's.

nyjohn might be there on 11/11 (great date!!)

Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
Oh and I"m leaving tomorrow =)
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Just to let you all know, the UK distributor

has informed me that there is a Dr. P. in Oxford, England who is treating Lyme with the Bionic 880.
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Thanks Joey,
I will bookmark your blog. Have a safe trip, I wish I were going with you! I'm so excited for you and hope (like the others who have gone before you) that you get well with Dr. W and staff.

Take care,
Posted by Alv (Member # 15192) on :
No Mojoe !
I do not mind at all.

It reinforces what GIGI says OVER and OVER and OVER!!
Please let us know how you will be doing!

BEST wishes on your recover journey from this horrible disease!
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Good luck Joey and just come back in full health. [Big Grin]
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
m0joey have a fantastic trip!!!!
Posted by liesandmorelies (Member # 15323) on :
Hi Mojoey,


Have a wonderful and safe trip over. I will be checking your blog to see about all the progress you are going to make(think positive)!!!!!!

We are all wishing you well and can't wait to hear of your experience.

Thank you in advance for sharing! [Wink]

Posted by Doomer (Member # 11013) on :

I tried to send you a PM but your box is full.

Wishing you a healing and healthy trip.

doomer [Smile]
Posted by jamieL (Member # 16563) on :
I hope you have an awesome trip, Joey! I'll be reading your blog for updates.
Posted by jamieL (Member # 16563) on :
Stupid question about how the bionic 880 works-

It's supposed to help damaged cells repair themselves, right? That sounds cool but...

...does it kill pathogens? Is it really killing Lyme and co?
Posted by hanginginthere (Member # 11685) on :
Have a safe and wonderful trip! My best wishes for great healing and rest (and a little exploring the countryside too...of course, with your pants tucked in your socks [Wink] )
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
JamieL, no question is ever stupid.

The light photons from the Bionic are absorbed, they multiply and distribute themselves - anarchistically - without any certain pattern - in the body. They know where to go. Via the nerve branches of the nervous system they arrive in the brain. Here they have a regulating effect on the production of our hormones, such as endorphines and cortisol.

By going this route, the photon therapy has a positive influence on our three central control systems: the nervous system, the hormonal system and the immune system. These systems start going back into full action again. Combining the photons with the frequencies put out by the nosodes, the borrelia and their relatives are being eradicated. It is so simple and so phenomenal. It's easy science for me.

Cells without light are dead cells. Some of our cells are filled with toxins and pathogens and have little, if any, light left. Toxins stays in - nutrients stay out. The photons restore them. We cannot live without light.

Normally we take in photons through sunlight and through our food. But our modern eating habits, the way food is grown, and the environments we live in changed all that.

We are loaded with environmental toxins, gases, metals, artificial light, carbon dioxyde, mercury -- all have an ongoing negative effect on us. We add physical and emotional stress, addictions, social and professional burden, childhood trauma, present conflict and crisis situations. And we live in a society that makes high demands on us - higher, faster, further........

Lack of photons easily manifests in our body as different diseases ---- ours happens to be Lyme Plus. I call it Lyme Plus now, because it never is just Lyme and co-infections alone that cause us problems. It took me a while to figure that out, and only after having suffered long enough did I come to that conlcusion. The photons take us a great step forward by at least eradicating the worst of them.

Right now I am treating my husband for metal and mold toxicity (with the Bionic880) and I will keep doing it until he can run a marathon again! Intruder after intruder, toxin after toxin. All very carefully.

So, yes, the roundabout way - the photons take the bugs out from where they don't belong. And our immune system, etc. keeps things running and improving after the treatments stop, if we do things right. Sort of waking all things up and bringing order back into the system.

Take care.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
I agree with GiGi in the mechanism but will add the following based on papers on the biophysics institute in Germany.

According to some of the papers it alludes to light entering a cell, if the light is fully satisfactory in the cell it cascades to the next cell. They called it a battery effect if you push positive electrons through a battery if the battery is at capacity the energy flows out the negative pole (not sure if the polarity direction is correct -- just concept). To the next cell. I'm guessing that is the flow electronically. Same happens for light it is still a form of electro magnetic waves. So in a sense it piggy backs from a cell with enough energy to the next cell if there isn't enough energy only the amount needed is absorbed anything left is passed.

The bionic 880 is a very powerful LED unit applied to chakra locations can affect the whole body with light even though the penetration of the light might only be an inch into the body. It is the cascading affect taking it deeper in.

Hope I've got it right, it is just my understanding.
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
It's really great to hear these positive reports. I would like to head over but fear I am too ill to handle the journey.

I'm trying to make a list in my foggy head of what I might need to receive the treatment here (in Toronto, Canada):

1) Bionic 880
-the manufacturer in Germany will send it to Canada for 6400.00 EUR

2) Borrelia nosodes
-they also said they can send these along with the machine for an additional 60.00 EUR

3) A willing practitioner who can oversee the protocol, do the energetic testing, and assist with detox (magnesium iv's, etc) after each treatment.

What else?

Should I stay out of the city during Bionic tx to avoid EMFs?
Posted by herxuk (Member # 15873) on :
The Bionic 880, is aprox 4 times more powerful than the Lt Works. Maths done by Spouse.

One would expect more from a machine costing 40 times more. ( UK PRICE ) Unavailable to buy to general public, as of head office.

A Practitioner's care is needed, and advised for the treatment of Bb, with the Bionic, ( there words ) not mine.

Let's ALL remain hopeful. Yes, all of us.
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
i know it is said that when out with the lyme, out with the coinfections...
i am wondering, if a patient is given lyme nosodes, then why not babesia, etc, nosodes as well?

Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
I am leaving on Friday and start the Biophoton treatment next Monday. Will report back.
Posted by sunshinyday (Member # 14337) on :
Wishing you a healthy successful trip!

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
John, Dr. W does not currently have babesia nosodes .... they just don't have coinfections over here like we do.

I plan on buying coinfection nosodes when I get back.
Posted by ElaineC (Member # 9857) on :
Originally posted by sixgoofykids:
John, Dr. W does not currently have babesia nosodes .... they just don't have coinfections over here like we do.

Oh yes they do!!! Co-infections are a huge prob all over fact it is claimed that the European strain of Babs is far harder to eradicate!! It's just that most European docs don't acknowledge co-infections or are just not educated enough about them!

If co-infections were not a prob then the majority of European Lymies...myself included... would be recovering a lot quicker! [Smile]
Posted by Gabrielle (Member # 5329) on :
Originally posted by sixgoofykids:
they just don't have coinfections over here like we do.

We have but the medical community is still in denial about this fact.
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
The interesting point is that it seems that when Dr. W treats for Borrelia in European patients, they generally improve/recover significantly.

With US patients, it doesn't seem to be quite as easy though progress is quite evident for those that I have spoken with that have gone.

I don't think we know all of the reasons why. Bioengineered Borrelia? Coinfections? Other factors? Different strains? Too many antibiotics?

The good news is that it seems that even for the US patients, good progress is more the rule than the exception.
Posted by lymeparfait (Member # 14268) on :

Wishing you success in Germany!

We'll be waiting for your posts!

Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
so speaking of antibiotic use, what does dr woitzel consider a long term abx regimen that would halter recovery?

3 months, 6 months, 1 year, years?
Posted by hanginginthere (Member # 11685) on :
Scott~ have a wonderful and safe trip! How I wish I were going too [Big Grin]

I hope that you experience tremendous healing. What a wonderful thing this could be.

Thanks for sharing with us.
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Originally posted by SForsgren:
The interesting point is that it seems that when Dr. W treats for Borrelia in European patients, they generally improve/recover significantly.

With US patients, it doesn't seem to be quite as easy though progress is quite evident for those that I have spoken with that have gone.

I don't think we know all of the reasons why. Bioengineered Borrelia? Coinfections? Other factors? Different strains? Too many antibiotics?

The good news is that it seems that even for the US patients, good progress is more the rule than the exception.

Perhaps the reason for treatment failure or a later relapse could be related to still having root canals or mercury fillings in place????
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
Sure. Possible. Heavy metals are a big issue and Lyme is generally not Lyme alone. I think we have to address all of these issues. Dr. H in NY has an excellent 15 areas that he looks into with patients and it is not all about killing infections. There is much more to it.
Posted by joylindy (Member # 16501) on :
For what it is worth, in a conversation with Dr. W. he said that he has the nosodes for the common coinfections in Germany (Chlamydia and one other that I can't remember), but often Americans do not test positive for those. He did not at that time (3 weeks ago) have nososdes for Babesia and Bartonella, the more common American coinfections. Since I did test positive energetically (not on the Western Blot) for babesia before I went to Germany, I plan to be tested with a babesia nosode to make sure that this is taken care of as well, or treat it with the Bionic.

I continue to feel a significant difference after the 5 treatments. My energy is better and my head is clearer. Best of all, my depression is lifting, and I actually feel good much of the time, not just physically, but emotionally. I know that I have other issues to deal with, but I am on my way. All my friends notice a real difference in me, and their joy for me has added to the delight of this experience.

I do notice that one of my 2 root canals is bothering me now, after being quiet for 10 years or more. This is interesting to me! At any rate, it was a bad root canal, done and re-done because the dentist left a tip of his instrument in the tooth. I plan to have it extracted this fall, and maybe the other one too.

I bought a machine but so far I still test (with the biotensor and borelli nosodes) that the lyme is all gone. I am so grateful, I don't have words.

Before I went to Germany I saw Dr. J. in Kansas, and I plan to go there again next week to be re-evaluated and show him my new light machine. I will be re-taking the CRT test and be retested energetically for borelli, babesia, parasites, candida, and the other things I am dealing with. Then I will choose the nosodes to work with next with the machine.

I am excited to be on the road back to health. Again, I thank GiGi and Dr. W. I am so grateful that Gigi posted her experience so faithfully here on lymenet or I would still be going down instead of up in my healing.

I wish you well, Scott, and all who are either there or are going over.

Blessing to all on your healing journey... [Big Grin]
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Thank you for your report and I am so glad you are feeling good!
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
that is awesome!!!!

i am wondering, if you can tell me, where can i purchase the nosodes for babesia (and hopefully mycoplasmas)?

thanks, and congradulations on feeling better!
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
My husband had all co-infections.

I explained yesterday at length that the biophotons start to turn on the immune system. For some people it happens quicker, for some slower. The photons keep working. Read that post, please.

The only nosodes that we applied were the Bb into the very high potencies, as well as a vial containing real/sterilized bacteria of Borrelia afzelli and the Bburgdorferi.
There are other ways to cover the related infections, but I won't go into that here, because we didn't need that and it is not really necessary.

The photons do not distinguish between the different toxicities. They go to work wherever they need to - again read my post of yesterday. I think it is in the Marnie's lizzard thread.

Even some of the heavy metals are coming out at the same time. Even some of the fungi are caught in the die-off. As is the mold. But if the infestation has been long and heavy, it will take longer. I am still treating my husband for metals and fungi and mold. The borrelia and all relatives are gone. They came together and they left together, as far as I am concerned. That's the first thing Dr. W. told me. The different infections and toxins do not live in separate little boxes in the body -- Remember I have been posting here for years - they all hang out together in one contaminated terrain.

I acquired all the co-infecion nosodes up into the most diluted potencies. They test negative every time I test them. They test negative with ART by the experts. Both my husband and I had seven co-infections - we share a lot!!!!!! None remain - nearly four months after the last Bionic Lyme treatment. Dr. W. cannot say how many months it would take to overcome the effects of longterm abx. He just says that it takes longer.
Makes perfect sense: there is a lot more residue to clean out. I would not be surprised that heavy drug intake besides abx would also slow things down a bit.

Different people - different reactions/results.

All other toxic loads, as Scott said, play a role. I would say an enormous role. Yes, the metals definitely are helped by the photons, but they are not out of the body yet the day you finish your last Lyme treatment. The stuff keeps coming and coming, but in tolerable amounts. That helps to avoid organ problems, etc.

I consider the photon treatment a very gentle treatment -much more gentle than anything that I have done or been done to. Dr. K. considered me a person that can take a bit more than others, and I was put to the test many times.

I will do photons any time before any other treatment modality - neural therapy, HBOT, ozone injections, prolo therapy, on and on; I can't and don't want to remember all of them.

Just so glad, so glad, so glad that there is a Bionic. The fact that my husband needs no special agents to move the metals out - ; No DMSA, no DMPS, no ALA, no NAC ---- that he needs no special agents to move the mold and fungi out --- is enough for us to be grateful forever. Mop-up ia the most important and assuring that elimination functions well, etc.

All thanks to photons and a well constructed light instrument.

For those who do the power comparison with other lights, there are more factors involved with the Bionic than merely power. I talked about that so many times. Stronger does not make it better.

Read some of the old posts -

Here is my response post from yesterday on Marnie's wonderful Lizzard thread: see next post.

Take care, and have loads of fun, Scott, most of all in the German bakeries! Wish I could roam around with you overthere. And give the Klein's a big hug from us.

Take care.
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
thanks gigi, again

sorry i didn't read back into the other posts and retain much- the head gets a bit spinning sometimes with all that info!!

i am excited for my trip...getting prepped as much as possible!
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Here is my response to Marnie's great lizzard post:

"Thank you, Marnie.

"Let There Be Light". It is light that does it - the biochemical process may or may not happen after that.

There is light in our cells. This fact was declared for the first time in 1922 by the Russian docotr, Prof. A. Gurwitsch; It was rediscovered in 1975 by others under the direction of Prof. Popp. and demonstrated clearly using the most up-to-date research methods.

According to these, the cells of all creatures emit light, albeit an extremely weak light, which is intensified during cell division, damage or cell death and extinguished when the cell dies.

Biophoton radiation of living cells isn't just an area of visible light, it serves as a sort of radio communication. The cells communicate with each other -- I have often heard said. Consequently, biological processes in plant, animal and human organisms can be controlled.
This is high order coherent light, much the same as the light from a laser (Bionic is not a laser)
beam and which is suitable for optimal information transfer.

Due to this high level of order, it can create order itself and activate or inhibit biochemical processes. In cancer, for instance, there is a loss of coherence and light storage capacity -- tumorous tissues irradiate differently.

Experiments have shown that healthy cells have the ability to store a lot of light; cancer cells lose their ability to store and their coherence becoming "chaotic". The ability to form a collective with other cells is also lost.

Biophotons can intervene here and create order.
Light particles are responsible for all biochemical events in our body. Life without light is not pos The Bionic880 triggers immuno-modulation, regulates hormone balance and harmonizes body, mind and spirit. sible.

Every living cell - human, animal, plant - dlivers 100,000 light impulses per second. This only ends when dead. If cells are damaged, the intensity of light is less. If light is given to the damaged and weakened cells via photons, the are encouraged to regenerate themselves.

Photons are the language of the cells. Research by the three Russian scientists (Stschurin, Kasnaschejew and Michailowa) showed after more than 5000 experiments, evidence that living cells deliver messages via photons. Each cell receives some 1000 messages per second. The information is distributed with a speed of light of 300,000 kilometers per second.

Our lifestyle explains the lack of photons. I described it yesterday in a post above - eating habits, toxin accumulation, quality of food, environmental toxins, overload of emf, gases, metals, artificial light --- mercury. Add physical and emotional stress, addictions, social and job problems. We live in an environment that is highly demanding ----- "higher, faster, and farther" ---- is not always to our benefit.

Let the lizard live.

Take care."
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
hey folks-

glad to hear about everything going so well for everyone...


i know youve been bothered a lot so far, but i am going to have to add to the load if i can.

whats your email again? i cannot find it in this thread. i am looking to get info on the treatment such as dr contact info, how to make an appt, ect ect.

is there any way those who have gone could make a handy guide people could just read and use for any questions they may have?

thatd be great. if not, gigi, if you would give me your email id love to contact you and get as much info as possible..


ps- is there a list anywhere of all the americans we know of that have gotten therapy?

it would be extremely helpful if we could compile everyone's stories in one place

[ 23. October 2008, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: djf2005 ]
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
i found it..
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Joylindy - the exact same thing happened to me with a root canal tooth. Mine was very old and poorly done and I had it extracted last week. It had never bothered me before.

My theory is that now our bodies don't have so many things to deal with - lyme - it can focus on other things and they start saying hello. The biophotons are still working and bringing new (or old) things to light. Kind of exciting really.

I expected a lot of pain and having to be very careful of the extraction area. It was almost completely healed in two days.
I attribute the quick healing to the biophotons just as my appendectomy healed so quickly.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
NYJohn - I have some information you are looking for but your mailbox is full.
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
hi there nanadubo
thanks a lot!
i just cleared out some space for you...
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
Time permitting, I will post some updates here during the stay:
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Scott best of luck to you and your quest to get completely well!!! [Big Grin]
Posted by Healing in Santa Cruz (Member # 7798) on :
Hi Scott, Have a safe,wonderful journey.I am looking forward to hearing about your experience.I will be checking you blog. Healing Blessings Joyce
Posted by karatelady (Member # 7854) on :
Have a good trip, Scott. I can't wait to hear how your treatment goes.

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
djf, do you have all you want to know? In case you don't, here is my e-mail: [email protected]

Take care.
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on : is the blog and I think you can follow it so that it sends emails if you are interested. I hope to be able to updated it along the way. Thanks for the well-wishes.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
and I think you can follow it so that it sends emails if you are interested. I hope to be able to updated it along the way. Thanks for the well-wishes.

You know that I am interested. So how do I do that so that it sends e-mails? You know I have my limitations when it comes to this sort of thing. Please.

Take care.
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
good luck, scott! i'm very much looking forward to following your progress. [Smile]
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Even being over here and receiving the treatment, I am still getting so much from those who were here previously. Please, keep posting. [Smile]

As I remember Nanadubo saying, it's a lot. I don't know how to say it, but it's a lot ... emotionally, spiritually, physically, etc. I am clearly feeling better, but going through a lot still. This is simple, but not necessarily easy.

I posted some ponderings on that on my blog this morning.

I'm looking forward to meeting mOjoey today. [Smile]

Again, thanks for the posts all of you who have gone through this .... it reminds me that healing is still to be done even after the borrelia is gone.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Absolutely Six - It feels like your whole life (and especially the lyme portion) gets put through the wash and wrung out. All the grief, fears and every other level is brought to the surface.

It is like a cleansing on so many levels. It continues on after treatment.

Instead of waking up each morning feeling overwhelmed and not even knowing what is going on in my body - pre-treatment - now I wake up and can feel each morning what might need to be tweaked.

My spiritual mentor always used to tell me that when you get rid of something that is unwanted, be conscious of what you fill that space with.

It is an adventure finding new ways to use all the time and energy that I used spend worrying, in fear and running from doctor to doctor.

Today I am going to get large sheets of extremely warm, German clay wrapped around me - called Fango - get covered in blankets and sweat my brains out! Have to keep getting rid of the toxins.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Alv - I can tell you all about it if you clean out your mailbox [Big Grin]
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
how do they or are they able to determine the borrelia is "gone"?

also, i still havent heard yet why people have symptoms even though they are cured?

and where did the rest of the 880 testimonials go?


Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
djf - Dr. W uses the same machine that tests for different strength of lyme and how heavy a load one has, to determine that there are no strengths still testing positive.

I'm not sure who you are referring to that still has symptoms. In my case, I was ill for 8 years. Wouldn't you think that every single system and organ was affected by that? Lyme can be gone and things still need to heal. Big difference between healing and still having lyme.

If there is collateral damage or detoxing to do, that does not mean one is symptomatic of lyme.

Example, a few weeks after I returned my jaw really started hurting. I went to the dentist and had an old and poorly done root canal tooth extracted.

The dentist commented that he couldn't believe that this tooth hadn't been bothering me for years. It might have been but my body was dealing with the ravages of lyme and couldn't take on one more thing.

Lyme goes, tooth can speak up.

Things shift quite dramatically and one no longer thinks that a stubbed toe or anything little thing that comes up is related to lyme.

I have no symptoms now. I feel as I did before I ever got lyme 8 years ago - a little older maybe [Wink]

This is just my experience. I know of one person who was treated and is symptomatic. Wrong diagnosis before they ever went there or lyme is gone and they still have some other major things to deal with are totally unrelated to lyme. Not sure which.
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
thanks for the info.

i still do not understand how it works only that it is the process which the dr uses...

i understand there is a difference between active lyme and giving the body time to heal..

how sick were you before you left, what symptoms did you have, and what was your level of functionality?

where does all that stand now and how long has it been since you were treated?

what are you taking now as far as lyme treatments? (ie supps, abx, herbs, ect)

will you continue to be treated w the bionic?


Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Nanadubo said--This is just my experience. I know of one person who was treated and is symptomatic." Wrong diagnosis before they ever went there or lyme is gone and they still have some other major things to deal with are totally unrelated to lyme. Not sure which.

Why would DR W treat someone with the Lyme protocol if they did not have lyme?? Dr W does test you for lyme when you get there, so I am assuming lyme showed up for this patient and than was treated with the lyme protocol by DR W with the Bionic880. So to say it was the wrong diagnosis would be incorrect. I don't think Dr W would treat someone with the lyme protocol with the bionic if in fact the person didn't show up positive for lyme... at least I would hope not. If this person was energetically tested for Lyme, then that is why this person must have proceeded to be treated.

so maybe it is incorrect to say that they DIDN'T have lyme. Maybe that this particular treatment just did not work for this person. It's ok to say that a treatment that has been successful for some was not for 1 or more. This is true with many treatments including the use of abx.

Either way, I am still highly interested in this treatment. I wish there was a way of knowing what makes it successful for some and not for others...

I am VERY happy that you are feeling like you did BEFORE getting lyme.. That is exciting and I only hope you stay as good or better than you feel now.

Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Shandy, I know Nanadubo will clarify! How I read what Nana wrote, is the person thought they had lyme as their issue made an appointment with Dr. W. and went to have treatment. Instead upon examination the person didn't have lyme and is still symptomatic. Dr. W. couldn't help this person and I'm guessing Dr. W. refered the person what next to do.

One way to make sure you have lyme to be gotten rid of, is to get a nosode with dead lyme in it and energetically test with someone in the states. Especially If you are not sure! [Smile]
Posted by Alv (Member # 15192) on :
lymie_in_md is RIGHT!

Shandy !
You really need to verify by the muscle test that you have lyme.I already used my llmd to confirm that for my son and my daughter even though I had a BIOFEEDBACK and IGENEX test done.

And that confirmed it for me in 3ways that WE DO HAVE LYME.We also had BULLS eye rashes a few years ago that nobody treated and told us what they were .Were send home with some cortisone cream and that was it.The nightmare than begin as we were sick and were through hell since than.

Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
I am not talking about me... I am talking about the woman/man who went to germany, got treated and is STILL symptomatic.

It is said it could have been from the wrong diagnosis... This cannot be if you are energetically tested before treatment by DR W.. It was obvious by Nana's post that this person was treated, because of the statement " I know of one person who was treated and is symptomatic"

Dr W wouldn't have treated this person if they did NOT energetically test for lyme... why would he??? That would be a waste of time and money.

SO... all I am saying is that it's ok that it may not be EVERYONE's answer... because every treatment is like this.

I am not trying to be confrontational at all... [Smile] I am trying to learn about this just like everyone else... you have to take the bad with the good sometimes!

I just wish there was a way to determine if it would work for myself or not.... But like most treatments we don't have it that easy.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Shandy -- I'll start off and say, you want to be sure this is a cure or as sure as you can be. You are looking at this as if you only have one bullet in the gun and it has to hit the target. We all understand the problem.

Getting this out of the way, you are not confrontational at all in my opinion, you just want to be absolutely sure of any decision you make. And there isn't a single person on this board who isn't rooting for you to get well. Me included!

A lot of information is percolating showing promise of this new LED or infrared light in removing lyme from our bodies. Personally, I believe it!

So it is simple : you can't get well with Dr. W. if you have lyme & Co. as your main problem. Again, you get well far more quickly if lyme is the main issue. If the main issue is mercury poisoning, candida, kidneys, endocrine system, liver, intestines, parasites, mold, EMF, dental (tmj, root canals, metals in the mouth, amalgams) on and on ... then those need to be addressed even if you get rid of lyme. Mercury in some can take months to years to remove.

Shandy you can test for many of these things if you get a biotensor IMHO. I believe it is the best thing I've purchased to get well. I wish I knew about it two years ago. I bet GiGi wished she knew about it years before now that she knows the power of it.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Lyme is Lyme. It and the co-infections are successfully treated (95%) with The Bionic880 Woitzel protocol, including the minor structural work he does.

If, however, you have other problems that were either present before you got infected with Lyme or developed into a bigger problem because of immune dysfunction, these problems will not all disappear with five Bionic/Woitzel treatments.
They need to be attended afterward, if that is the case.

Dr. W. tests to make the diagnosis of Lyme. If Lyme is a factor, even though you may have other problems, he treats the Lyme.

I don't think Nano meant to say "misdiagnosis", she meant that due to other causes, the person was still symptomatic. A single one of all the other neurotoxins can cause very similar symptoms.
Attributing a symptom to a certain co-infection or any other neurological disease, as people are trying to do, in my opinion, is a lost cause. There is no way Dr. K. could ever diagnose a certain infection by a certain symptom or disease. I had all symptoms that one can imagine and he never could figure out what caused what. Drenching nightsweats can easily have other causes besides Babesia. On Lymenet, a nightsweat means Babesia.

There are many factors that can contribute to the same symptoms. If getting rid of proven Lyme does not eliminate all symptoms, or none, or only one, look elsewhere. Treat, treat, all intruders or offenders. There are usually many. I will admit, we would rather not know about them, and try to find some culprit which we think wwe can more easily deal with. This I think is the wrong way to go.

Lyme Disease is a disease brought about by many different factors besides simply a tick bite or person to person infection, or via the dog or the kitty. All these possiblities have to be explored and dealt with, especially if the Bionic880/Woitzel protocol does not succeed.

Heavy metals, fungi/mold, dental infections, bad wisdom teeth sites (still in the mouth or removed long ago), are some of the major ones. Structural problems are a problem. If you go home to the same old EMF exposures, nothing is going to change. No photon will have a chance. Tsome of these usually provide the terrain for the Lyme and Co. to find a place to live. These are all closely linked with any infection.
So -- after Bionic treatment, these may have to be addressed.

Bob said it well, and I will add that the Bionic photons may fix your Lyme, but it will not straighten out a kinked spine or infected root canal. You might have to lend an extra hand there.

Take care.
Posted by bejoy (Member # 11129) on :
I understand from some of Dr. Woitzel's patients that he is interested in treating with nosodes of coinfections, but does not currently have them.

Why treat with lyme nosodes if the light handles all infections on it's own without help? Additional nosodes might be supportive. I'd let the doctor decide on an individual basis.

It might be interesting for someone to bring a set with them to have him check them out.

I'd be willing to help someone going to Germany access them if you have the interest. I am interested in Woitzel's opinion.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
I too first thought all my problems were reduced to borrelia only. Kill the borrelia, and get well again. A tick bite made me down to almost zero energy and dozens of symptoms in very little time, that is why I put all the guilt on borrelia.

After fighting lyme since 2005, I'm now certainly convinced lyme is just part of the puzzle, like Gigi, Bob and others keep saying.

I see around me people getting bitten by ticks constantly, living without any repellents, kids, small kids, old people, they DON'T FALL SICK. It's not uncommon to reach 90 years here (countryside in Switzerland), many do.

Many cultivate their own organic veggies, drink unpasteurized milk from their neighboring farms, don't get vaccinations until they are older, they are outside most of the time, in contact with rain and sunlight almost every day.

I fell sick after my first tick bite. Second tick bite again, very sick very fast, despite herbs and abx. So did my daughter. There must be something else than mere borrelia causing us to collapse so fast.

I'm still pretty sure if I get again bitten, I'll fall sick again as I did last year. Guys that were treated with the Bionic just for borrelia too.

Dr. W. said that, the Bionic treatment won't prevent you from falling sick again if a tick bites you again.

That's why one's gotta keep treating, cleaning the body, and letting time heal what has been messed up after years of borrelia. Years of arthritis, losing loads of collagenous tissue (borrelia does ravage to collagen), these will not be reconstructed by magic in joints and cartilage. It takes time.

If your heart got inflamation for years, it won't just start working well in a day and you'll be able to run a marathon in a week. Maybe permanent damage was already done, who knows?

What messed with my immune system was not borrelia only. It was messed before the first bite. If I were well, I would be like my neighbors, getting constantly bitten and not falling sick, and not worrying about ticks.

I do energetic tests with ticks (and so does the right hand of dr. K. here in Germany), we can 'see' what each tick has energetically. so glad other people are doing that, before I felt like no one trusted what I said because I was a loner here.

Almost 100% of the ticks I found in my area have borrelia. Almost all have bart. The rest varies. It took me time to find a tick without any pathogens (at least, for the pathogens I can test). I thought they didn't exist. They are rare, very rare. Very few don't have borrelia, but can have other pathogens.

My neighbors have an average of 3-5 tick bites a year for each family member. They are being infected with borrelia, I'm pretty sure, much before I moved here.

It's wonderful not to have active borrelia here and then. I have truly experienced that quite for a few times (in between relapses!). No treatment is required, you feel good.

But then I usually get fungal infections active again. And then the fight continues, with the same pattern as lyme: kill, herx, fatigue, improve slowly, shift herbs and homeopathics constantly, magnesium, zinc, Vit E and so on.

To get rid of fungi, I need to get rid of heavy metals. Chelation goes on. Liver, intestines and kidneys get so stressed no one can live a normal life while detoxing these heavy metals, despite innumerous cleansers taken 6-12 times a day (at least in my case). The Photon wave did it softer though, fortunately.

Only recently, I feel less afected by EMRs. Before, they made me feel very sick too. It IS slow.

I feel candida-fungi infections very close to lyme. They can affect almost all parts of your body, from GI, liver, kidneys, heart, skin, brain, uterus, teeth, eyesight. You guys taking loads of abx have to fight candida for sure too.

Someone just told me, fibroids in uterus could be caused by yeast-fungi. I have fibroids. The fight goes on. Next step, finding a remedy for it and test if it will help my fibroids.

Borrelia is certainly NOT my main problem at the moment.

So what? My treatment looks pretty much like a comprehensive lyme treatment. I wonder if dr. W. treats fungi and candida infections too, does anyone know it?

I'm so glad there are others here with their borrelia out (or dormant) and still looking for answers. And very glad Gigi started doing energetic tests too!

Anyowe coming to dr. W. in January?

Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
djf - As I said, I was sick for eight years and so had about every symptom you can imagine at one time or another. 9 months prior to going to Germany I was bedridden for 3 months. I got better but had great difficulty driving myself places and had very little energy.

By the time I went to Germany in September I considered myself 80% functional. My family would disagree with that and they might be right as they were probably able to see more clearly how I was functioning.

I am taking very few supplements, some homeopathic remedies for organ support during detox and no antibiotics.

I will continue to treat with the Bionic once a month for a while to make sure lyme remains gone and that I continue to test negative for it. As I become better at using it I will most likely use it for other things.

Shandy - Dr. W tests everyone who goes there to make sure that they actually do have lyme. I may have not been clear in my earlier post. He states in his literature that if a person takes antibiotics during the treatment, the treatment can fail. Also, if there has been a misdiagnosis before going there.

He would not treat someone for lyme if they do not have it. He tests for this before anything is done. Concerning the person who posted earlier in the summer who was still symptomatic - my understanding was that the person did have lyme which was cleared but has other issues remaining.

The post was deleted and I do not know what the person has.

I am not saying that there was someone who went there that did not have lyme but was still treated for it. Have I made that clear?

Sorry for any confusion I might have caused. I think what I read in his literature means it is possible someone could go there thinking they have lyme but do not. This would be "wrong diagnosis" BEFORE going there. Again, he would not treat you for lyme if you don't have it.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Selma (Brussels) I will be eager to hear about your experience with Dr. W.
You seem to live a healthy lifestyle. Do you think you and your daughter have a genetic vulnerability, or when you were growing up you did not lead as healthy a lifestyle as your neighbors?
Also, perhaps if bit since children they developed some type of immunity, who knows.

nana--why would he send someone home and not treat? Seems like he treats more than lyme. Why couldn't he treat her/him for whatever they did have?
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Thanks Nana for clarifying! I understand now

Bob-- you are absolutely right.. I am looking for answers eevryday.. I wish I could get muscle tested by someone to be sure of what I am dealing with... It proves hard when I can barely leave the house. Thanks for rooting for me!! [Smile]

My reasoning for wanting to go to DR K was because I thought he could help me indentify what was going on in my body by ART testing, and then hopefully be able to help me strengthen my body... so that maybe I could get the bionic treatment. I figured he would be the best to go to for figuring out what was going on and trying to fix all these imabalances in my body.

At this point my daily job is taking pill after pill, antibiotics that are not helping, supplements, vitamins... I just don't know anymore.

The question is.... how do you know what to treat when you don't really know whats going on inside... even with a + test for lyme. How do you figure out HOW to make yourself well?

99.9% of my fight is for my children, 1% for myself. ( I mean it would be nice to feel well after all) [Smile]

Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
oxygenbabe - the old post that was deleted says (to the best of my recollection) that the person had lyme,was treated for lyme and at the end of treatment was lyme free. I do not know what else the person has or had.

Since I was only there to be treated for lyme and friends I did not ask him what other things he treats. He did some great chiropractic adjustments on me though and was able to tell me that the mixed metals in my mouth are a big problem. Since he is not a dentist.... do you see what I am saying?

I don't think we can figure out what a person had, what treatments they received and how they are doing now if they are not communicating that to us. It just leads to speculation and misinformation.

There are a number of people who have been there and returned, a group there now and more people on their way. It would probably be more productive to ask those who are still posting or read peoples blogs to better understand.

If you are asking a theoretical question like - what if someone showed up there sick but didn't have lyme disease, would he treat them? He is a good doctor and just as he sent me to someone about my appendix, I'm sure he would see this person got help. Other than that, I cannot answer.
Posted by Alv (Member # 15192) on :

based on mojoys post ...Dr W found out that his Mother does not have lyme even though he though she did.

Also ..I know that I have candida ( cronic -fungys ) based on the test done 13 years ago -thanks to Metal bridges and mercury in my mouth for DECADES.My load on both of them was high as high as lyme when I was tested.

FYI yesterday I took 5 candida force based on biotensor( my load is very high- broke my first biotensor just asking on yeast fungus question).

This is what I am planing to follow right now on candida :

I have done all that Olive leaf exstract , GSE , oil of eregano etc...all of them .

I was off any lyme killers yesterday.2 hrs later I had blurry vision , foggy brain and got so confused as when I had active lyme felt like I was herxing for lyme.

But I took candida KILLERS.The reaction was the same .I was writing some checks and got so confused and I could not even write down the numbers and messed up 3 checks and avoided them .

I have felt same on detoxing metals from my brain so killing the parasites on parasites protocoll ( very strong ones) .

I herxed my brains out as I used to on lyme.So killing candida and fungus and detoxing metals is as important as addressing lyme.

Muscle testing showed in my case that LYME metals and FUNGUS/CANDIDA were major.So did BIOFEED back -showed all these goes together and candida was top 5 and cronic fungus above LYME disease findings.( tick borne illnes -lyme disease came out right after CRONIC FUNGUS) in my QXCI test.

I know that metals and candida lowered my immune system to make LYME to come out or get infected from ticks when other people are walking aroung sorrounded from them and do not get sick as I am .

As my bodies level of mercury /metals and fungus lowers so does LYME and coinfections...slowly .I treat them all at the same time.

WHEN I did the major killing 2 years ago without addresing the metals my left kidney shut down from mercury released ( bugs getting killed released it ) I was following a VERY STRONG PROTOCOLL for cancer patient killing parasites without knowing what I was killing ( had no clue about lyme).

They definitly hold into each other.IT IS NOT JUST LYME!!!That is what I found from my eksperience .I am just sharing it.Sorry I am not trying to highjack the thread but mayeb can help somebody else with my eksperience.

I now follow the biotensor /muscle testing metod only .I give my body whatever killers /cleanser/vitamins that need at the certain time and it changes daily .THAT IS THE ONLY metod that I BEILIVE IN on my road to recovery!!!
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Momfromtexas -

I don't recall anything about the biophotons making you sicker if you are on antibiotics, just that it won't work. Someone who knows more will come along. I know Dr. W does not use antibiotics because they are not good for your colon.

Antibiotics and killing herbs are be stopped. Any particular medications other than that, I would ask him.

I tried to detox first but with all the things I had, detoxing was not very successful until the lyme got dealt with. If you can detox first I'm sure that's a good thing.

I was off antibiotics for 5 weeks before I went to Germany. I have heard others say they have stopped a week or two before going.

I don't agree that you have to be nearly recovered - don't know who wrote that. There were people there at the same time I was who were extremely ill.

If you search gigi's threads you will find a lot of information.

Hope that helps.
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
Gigi said:

"Attributing a symptom to a certain co-infection or any other neurological disease, as people are trying to do, in my opinion, is a lost cause. There is no way Dr. K. could ever diagnose a certain infection by a certain symptom or disease. I had all symptoms that one can imagine and he never could figure out what caused what. Drenching nightsweats can easily have other causes besides Babesia. On Lymenet, a nightsweat means Babesia."

I think this is a HUGELY important point. My LLD has always said there is NO WAY to tell which symptom is from which infection, because they all overlap like one big Venn diagram.

Frustrating yet comforting, because it takes up sooooo much energy to try and constantly figure that one out!!!

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
The best solution I have found to determine what symptom is causing what is using the tensor and my judgement. If my husband would turn up with a yellow complexion, I would immediately reach for all organ support remedies or medicines.

If he has typical symptoms anywhere, I test all the nosodes for the different infections and/or toxins.

If I find that his system is blocked (there a simple tensor test for it), so that his Autonomic Nervous System cannot give the true answer, I use my intuition and find the test vials that cause a change and opens his system. Then I have at least one culprit definitely, and I can go on with the appropriate treatment with the Bionic. Always testing the frequency and other settings for the Bionic with the Biotensor before proceedin.

In the absence of a doctor or practitioner who can energetically test you and - most important -- is healthy enough to do it well, I can answer all my questions now with the Biotensor. We have saved a lot more by not having to go to a doctor or practitioner, because of this.

A good reliable, scientifically well manufactured tensor is best. We purchased the one Dr. W. uses. I had it in my hand once while we were at his office and knew instantly that all others I have tried do not come close to it. So make a wise decision. You will -- if you take good care of it -- use a tensor for many years. So don't waste your money on something that gives you only half the answers. You will save a lot by using it, because you will probably find that a goodly number of the supplements you are taking is not wanted by your body. And therefore you are avoiding some of the setbacks by the incorrect medicines, remedies, supplements, etc.

It takes time to learn using the tensor. It's best to get a good book. I just ordered the English version of the one published in German. I am most anxious to learn more to refine my testing, so that I do not have to have ART, at least not as frequently as we used to. My test results so far agree with ART results. Tensoring takes discipline. Wishful thinking has to be avoided to get true results. And testing is only for the present moment - not for tomorrow or later.

It is important to test yourself first before testing someone else. If your own system is blocked, you cannot test anyone else. There is an order to this process, but it is easily learned.

The reason I could never get excited about any tensor before was that I never used a good one. I had been given some several times that are still somewhere in some drawer. They did not work for me. Then I got the Biotensor, the genuine one - not a copy.

If I am not mistaken, Nano had the tensor she bought tested by Dr. W. and he told her it was not sufficient. Not sure whether it was Nano or not or what kind of tensor she showed him. So pardon.

Take care.

No, I am not getting paid for making this
statement!!!!!!!!!! I know I am going to get shot down again for what I said above, but so be it.
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
Gigi said:

"If you go home to the same old EMF exposures, nothing is going to change. No photon will have a chance. "

Now this one really confuses me. How can one possibly change their EMF field, really? We are all going to be going home to nearby cell towers, our computers and TVs, so this seems impossible.

Why would anyone go to Germany if this were true? So much EMF exposure is out of our control.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Tracy9 - a certain amount of it is in our control. I am getting my wireless internet connection replaced with a hard wire. Until then, I only have it turned on when I'm actually using the computer.

I rarely use a cell phone and do not own an ipod.

There are devices you can buy to put on your computer, telephone, television and even electrical outlets to help with the EMFs. I'm not exactly sure how they work.

I have the information somewhere and will dig it up. Never mind, I just found it.

computer chip, tv chip, cordless phone and holder chips, outlet neutralizer and room neutralizer.

The website is

Email is [email protected]
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
P S I do not sell these devices and am in no way affiliated with the company [Big Grin]
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
mOjoey said something that interested me today. He said Dr. W treated for lyme and if we had do-infections like babesia and bartonella the American doctors can treat it.

That sounds a little different from Gigi saying that the co-infections go when the lyme goes. Anyone have clarification?

The person who still has the symptoms was a boy whom Dr. W said was lyme free, but was around too much EMF. That is confusing, too, to be declared lyme free and still have all symptoms. I know the body is complex. I wonder whether the German LTT blood test would have confirmed the lyme free diagnosis.

Again, I think the protocol holds promise and I will keep rooting that those who get treated have lasting results.

Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
hiker53 -- I believe he was talking about clients he'd been treating in Germany when he started talking GiGi and how coinfections worked there. I'm guessing he is learning the American strains are a bit different then what he is used to. That is my understanding of the dialogue thus far. Americans are more difficult to treat then Europeans. And he is learning too. He may also learn how he might tweak his protocol over time to our benefit. In the mean time, getting rid of lyme is a great start.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Do you think the people manufacturing the Borrelia nosode take it apart into co-infections, etc. The infection usually comes in one tick bite from one tick. That is what is used in the treatment. He applies ten different potencies of the Borrelia burgdorferi nosodes plus the original of a sterilized Borr. afzelli and the original of a Borrelia burg. during all of the treatments.

I have never heard him say that the American doctors should do the rest of the treatment. He may have been referring to the four-months checkups that he does with all the Europeans, or at least the Germans that come to see him.

There is a lot of misunderstanding due to language differences and people should make every effort not to repeat or spread around incorrect information. He told me that the photons do the job re co-infections. My husband had literally all, and I cannot find a single one. I am testing him constantly. As of now, we are down to metals, fungi and mold. Waiting to see what comes next. None of that can be done in three weeks and that is probably what he may have been referring to when he suggested continued treatment at home. It would takes many weeks to stay there and that is not his forte. He can test for it, but the time is not available, nor are the "bodies" ready to do it all at once.

Take care.

He is beginning to be concerned, even while we were there, that the infections from here seem to be stronger. I know from my experience over the years with patients of Dr. K., that the exposure to EMF is much more severe here and started much earlier and long before the Europeans ever had a computer or a cell phone, or even a microwave. We have not nearly the same insulation in our homes here (wiring) as they have in Germany (not sure about the rest of Europe. Our wiring would never pass inspection overthere. I have been hearing this from Dr. K. for many years - it has always created a problem. That is why he is so adamant that we pull the fuses into the sleeping quarters at night - the place where we stay the most hours and not moving around. I have always done that and still do it when I think of it.

I think the amalgams were stopped quite a while overthere, even outlawed, compared to here.

We have much more chemical exposure than they do -

We practically live in the automobile while they still have their annual vacations in the country walking to the stores -- \

The treatment continues and it is noticed that starting the lowest/strongest potencies clear first and slowly move up to the highest potency D200 or K1000. When the highes (most diluted) potency clears, that finishes the treatment.

The patient is then asked to return on a monthly basis to make certain he/she/it stays clear and no infection is evident. He continues that for about four months, regularly testing the patient.

He then recommends further that all patients be tested once a year -- not only for the earlier infection, but as a signal for any infection that can happen at any time after the treatment is finished.

I talked with one lady in Germany, when I "interviewed" her for almost an hour, she was fine many months after the treatment. But had suffered another tickbite a year later and went for another treatment. She then did not bother to go that far away from her home to see Dr. W., but that he referred her to someone near her home to do the treatment.

As I have posted many times, there are many practitioners that own the Bionic and use it for treatment of hundreds of problems, not only Lyme.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
I am not disagreeing with Gigi and Dr. W. I am hoping the lyme treatment works. Just pointing out what m0joey said on his blog today that seemed different from what I had heard before.

If this treatment works and holds I am over there!

I do think that we have too much technology in our world and that is hurting us physically. I know after working in a classroom all day with 14 computers that are programmed to be on all day with a large "SMART Board" that I can barely walk by the end of the day and standing by the SMART board makes me feel ill. These have replaced blackboards and overhead projectors, so there isn't much choice in how I teach.

Anyway, blessings and good health to all of you and may Dr. W be blessed with a healing hand!

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Just remembered as I was browsing through other thread titles:

Dr. Woitzel told me recently that they have done comparatives - the CD57 is moving up with the Bionic treatment.

I have never done one - but I guess that this is nice to know for some of you. When I do get a chance to get a word with him, I could ask a hundred questions. But I do respect his time.

Take care.

P.S. My last post above this one is a disaster. It is garbled and all backward. But I do not have time --- so please excuse - there is a life to live beyond Lymenet!
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
Hi all,

I had an interesting night. I didn't react the first night after treatment but yesterday I definitely felt a bit strange (almost delirious) and at night I sweated profusely throughout the night. I had to change into 4 different shirts. I never had a prolonged sweat like that, even when the babesia herxing was at its worst.

However, I don't feel ill. This is similar to what others have said. After their "reactions" --since it's not exactly a herx-- they feel fine.

Hiker -- you didnt misinterpret what I said. Dr. W did say that if the symptoms are gone, then the co-infections aren't a problem, but if the symptoms are still there whilst the lyme is gone, then he will see what the problem is and the co-infections can be treated by american doctors. I made absolute sure of this when I was asking about co-infects, and I highly doubt this part was lost in translation.

I heard Nanadubo's tooth infection cleared in 2 days when she went home after the bionic treatment. I have a few bad EBV-related sores near the roof of my mouth from the torturous first few days of getting here, and it's causing really bad ear pain. I really want more photon treatments now to get that cleared up!!!


[ 25. October 2008, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: m0joey ]
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
How far out is he booking now? I can't believe I'm going to say this but I am now thinking of going with a New England group, including Shandy, perhaps Erin, and want to run it by Sara, David, and Melissa as well.

We all want to wait and see how our beloved guinea friends we aren't thinking of going until spring or summer maybe....but wondering if we think we might want to do so, when should we call????
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
hi tracy,

i'll try to ask him on monday if I see him.

I think it's certainly best to come with a group of people. I was talking to Paul last night and he's goin a little cuckoo in the forest. I'm on day 3 so we'll see how long it takes to go full jack nicholson.

Im gonna be ruffling some feathers here, but here are some things to consider before coming all the way here if money isn't easy to come by.

Are you positive you have lyme? Absolutely 100% positive? If so, you do not need the bicom to test for it. The bicom is a 20G machine that some alt docs may own -- or a similar electrodermal test-- back in the states.

On the other hand, my mom tested positive for lyme per asyra, but negative with bicom. Maybe the bicom is far more accurate than anything we have over there? Either way one should consider if a superior diagnostic test is something worth paying the premium of traveling over for.

I think most of Dr. W's help comes in the way of what happens if your lyme is gone and your symptoms are still full blown. With another woman whom is severely ill, she is now lyme-free but symptomatic, so dr. w hooked her up from head to toe with this machine that had frequencies for a bunch of other infections, and she tested to have her biggest problem be a form of strep throughout her entire body.

So you see, the bionic treatment and infusions in and of themselves are IMHO not worth the travel if anyone is still wondering. Like gigi said, even her very young granddaughter could use the bionic. All they do is tape the live vials--which arent in the states--with the different potencies of borrelia nosodes to your solar plexus and you do the test. Ozone is helpful for neuro lyme, and that may be difficult to get in the states.

He is clearly trying to learn as he goes with american patients. We are his guinea pigs, and I believe in time he will gain a far better understanding of how we differ from euro patients. The benefit of seeing him in person seems to be finding out what's wrong whether it's lyme and besides lyme. Some of us that have access to ART Testers with a score of nosodes can find this out at home. It may be a mild wild goose chase, but its doable.

I just worry about a bunch of patients taking out loans to afford this treatment. Obviously it is much safer to have Dr W monitor you during the treatment, but besides Nana taking out her appendix--in which case the origin of pain and solution are clear--i haven't heard of any cases of major mishaps. Side effects yes, visits to the ER no.

In no way am I saying I think I wasted money by flying over. I've yet to have my 2nd treatment!! I wrote about the many benefits of being here in my blog, and I really think the conditions make for the ideal healing environment. Im just being a devil's advocate for people that are hellbent on this being a magic bullet when said bullet may be available under a U.S. alt doc's care soon or for those willing to bite the bullet, available with a group like the one bob is trying to set up. Many of the patients that have come think it was worth every single penny and the mom and daughter I met on thursday even plan on coming back in january to see Dr. W. It just becomes much harder to rationalize when your life savings are gone and you still feel ill, even if the hardest part--the lyme--is over.

Posted by liesandmorelies (Member # 15323) on :
Hi MoJoey, [hi]

I am so happy you are posting here and keeping us informed. I am reading your blog daily too.

In case I missed this, do you know if after your three week treatment there, do you have to go back four weeks later? I thought I recalled that was part of Dr. W's protocol. Kinda like a re-check visit?????

Hope you are feeling well and can't wait until you have had all your treatments to see how you make out.

The weather has been gorgeous here in sunny California, but sure would love to see the lush green countryside of Germany. Hope you are enjoying the sites the best you can.

We are all thinking of you!

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
He is tweaking his protocol for us. [Smile]

I am feeling great after my fourth treatment. I felt good and had energy all day yesterday after the photons. Today I woke up about an hour earlier than normal and feel good.

I can't clarify Joey's statement. Dr. W said to us that you have to clear the Lyme, then worry about the rest ... in regards to viruses, etc. He didn't test us for anything else because we had to clear the Lyme first.

He does not have the American nosodes for co's. I plan on buying some when I get back. I also need to use it with the mold I was exposed to .... I will have to ask him the best way to do that.

This is clearly working for me. No doubt about it.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
hi elizabeth,

from what i understand, he likes his german patients to go back after 4 weeks to get check if the lyme is still gone. I plan on going with the biotensor + checking with my chiro muscle-tester.

I wanted to add to my previous post: What really makes the decision to come for those who have trouble affording it potentially hard to justify is the fact that because it definitely seems to work, most of us will want to buy the machine. It seems like everyone here is taking the machine home with them to treat. Even if I walk out of here with all my symptoms still in place, as long as the lyme is gone I probably won't ever go on ABx again. I'll probably be using the machine to treat everything else.

Six really does look great!! she aint lying. =)

Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
I was also wondering if anyone knows the author of this blog:

she started blogging about her experience with the bionic, but i haven't heard anything from it since. She is following six's and my blog so i know she is out there!!! Just wanted to see how she's doing since she should be done with treatment by now

Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
I know her. She was in Germany the same time I was. We spent a wonderful day in Ettlingen together.

Last I heard she was doing well.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
thanks nana!

that's great to hear. She must've been feeling so good she forgot to finish blogging about it haha
Posted by clairenotes (Member # 10392) on :
I am so grateful to all of you who are posting your experiences with the Bionic 880. And it is also really nice to hear about other aspects of the experience such as traveling and lodging etc., from your blogsites. The more that we can know, the less anxiety there will be about going to Germany for this treatment. Because anxiety over 'unknowns' can be an obstacle in itself, particularly with regard to foriegn travel.

Though I do not feel that Dr. W's treatment is the only way out of this illness... it is appearing to be another very viable option that will widen, in my opinion, what has previously been a relatively narrow circle of options for us.

Wishing all who are there much success with Dr. W's treatment and many days of true health ahead.

Claire [group hug]
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Mojoey and Six, Nice to hear from you and glad you're doing well!! [woohoo]

About making sure you DO have lyme... I think my + WB and my low CD57 is enough... even though I doubt myself everyday. I am sure there are other factors involved. My son and brother also have lyme (highly suspect my fiance too). so maybe I can also get a machine to bring back and treat them...

If we get the group togther that we were talking to last night, I say LET'S do it!!!

Wishing you all continued healing [Smile]
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
hey new england folks --

i live in nyc and am seriously considering making a trip over the summer as well, so if you all end up going then i would love to accompany you (spring might be a little too early for me).

anyone else from the east coast who is thinking of seeing dr. w this coming summer, please pm me. [Smile]

Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
I would consider it but would so much prefer someone here learn it, too.

Thanks to all with blogs.
Posted by liesandmorelies (Member # 15323) on :
Thanks Joey!!!!

And congrats to Six. I am so glad she is feeling better and the treatment seems to be working for her. YEAH!!!!!

This is so exciting. If this trend of ppl going and feeling better, continues then I think you are going to see a lot of ppl going over.

I will continue to read your blogs. We can't thank you enough for sharing your story's with us.


PS I know we are not over there with everyone, but in a strange way, it feels as if we are. You don't know how inspiring this is for many ppl back here. [Smile]
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I just met Scott. [Smile]

We had a great day today! Went to Heidelburg .... walked all the way up a large hill to see a castle!!! It was fun and beautiful weather, too.

If you come over, see Heidelburg when you're feeling a bit better .... lots of walking to see it the way you will want to be seeing it.
Posted by joylindy (Member # 16501) on :
Hi, this is joylindy. I just PMed Joey, but for the others, I 'm the one with the sarahlindy54 blogspot. I post here as joylindy if you want to read my posts about going to Germany to see Dr. W.

I started a blog while I was there, then abandoned it since I was trying to avoid EMF exposure while in treatment.

My experience overall was positive. Next week I will be checked out by Dr. J in Kansas, and will report back on his assessment of my body's state.

I am teaching at a 7 day retreat right now, and the retreat team all tells me how different I seem and how much stronger and more energetic I am. I feel it too, but it's nice to hear from others.

Germany was important for me because it cleared the lyme. I didn't expect to be totally symptom free afterwards, just better, which I am. I don't regret going for a minute!

Blessings to all..
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :

I'm on day 8 in bed unable to do a thing. I want this treatment.

However I am really thinking about what Joey said, and it does seem to make waaaaayy more sense if we pool our resources here in NE and get someone here to treat us.

I mean, if we each kicked in a thousand bucks, we could get the machine, and set up a practitioner; I know a great NE friend who is an acupuncturist and on this board, Luvdogs, maybe she would be interested?

It might not be prudent for 10 or 12 of us to fly to Germany this summer (tempting though it is) if someone can figure out how to get a machine in each state or so, and practitioners nearby.

Isn't Steelbone from CT? Is he bringing back a machine?

I'm way too sick to figure it out, but as I recall Sunshiney Day in MA was also looking for people to start a group around here...

HELP....I am more than willing to kick in some bucks, SSDI back pay coming soon.....but can't do any of the legwork.

Luvdogs, you interested?
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
I am seriously considering going to Europe for treatment...

...I am also wondering about importing a unit to Canada (the manufacturer confirmed they will ship to me) IF I could only find a MD or ND who would assist with treatment.

I have 3 small children and it would be very hard to be away from them for 3-4 weeks.

Anyone from Toronto/Southern Ontario region please PM me if they are aware of a practitioner who might be interested.
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
reading some of the earlier posts about dr. w. finding american patients harder to treat..
i would suspect mycoplasma fermentans as one reason for this.

Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
also, any chance of the price of the machine coming down over time?

Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Again, just playing devil's advocate. If people are going all the way to see Dr. W, like Willow, why are they not getting the bionic treatment for the other things they have. Sixgoofy on her blog, said Willow had high levels of EBV and would treat at home--why not there?

Also, another person who has been there with pretty good results now reports the brain fog came back that had left after treatment with Dr. W. (I will keep the name private). So it seems some of the treatment does not last.

I really hope it helps people; guess I am afraid to get my hopes up, go there, and have my hopes dashed. Hiker53
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :

I understand how you feel and it's only natural.. look at what we have all been through.

I was going to ask the same question about why they couldn't treat the EBV or other problems with the bionic, seeing as it is not ONLY for lyme. I have read online that it treats a variety of things.

here is the link to that brochure, it also has testimonials from Dr W and other doctors in Europe using it.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Again, just playing devil's advocate. If people are going all the way to see Dr. W, like Willow, why are they not getting the bionic treatment for the other things they have. Sixgoofy on her blog, said Willow had high levels of EBV and would treat at home--why not there?

Also, another person who has been there with pretty good results now reports the brain fog came back that had left after treatment with Dr. W. (I will keep the name private). So it seems some of the treatment does not last.

I really hope it helps people; guess I am afraid to get my hopes up, go there, and have my hopes dashed. Hiker53

If Lyme is treated satisfactorily and if people follow the schedule for rechecking for the months as indicated by the recommended protocol by Dr. W., according to him and the patients I have talked with, Lyme is no longer a problem.

If reinfected afterward, that is a problem.
The people who took abx during the treatment will have a problem - that became evident with the trial testing of the 108 group of patients a few years ago. So he warns people. If someone goes back on abx, right after the treatment, while the photons are still doing their job, I do not know what to expect. I didn't ask, but some people are paranoid and go back to the old ways too early. That is must my thought. I do not know.

Many people, however, have a problem with toxicity and other infections before they contracted Lyme and accumulated even more of the same during the disease process while the immune system was out of order.

Many live in a toxic environment - mold, EMF 24/7, toxic relationships, and go back to the same after the treatment.

Many were heavy metal toxic before the treatment and are still facing the identical problems after the treatments for Lyme. The photons help, but most heavy metals are still in the body trying to find their way out.

Some still have the worst source of mercury in their mouth - the amalgams and other metals.

He does not request it that people remove it. It is common sense that if you have infected teeth and different metals in the mouth along with amalgam, to take care of it. The mercury still heads for the brain as long as the amalgams are in the mouth, with or without photons.

My advice would be - do not do photon treatments of any kind if you still have the metal in your mouth. And if you get the Bionic treatment for Lyme, make sure you address the fallout of metals from the die-off.

I am sorry if I sound like a broken record.

Take care.

All cannot be treated at the same time. One would have to stay many weeks and months to get more treatments based on whatever they are. Not all can be treated with the Bionic - structural, biochemical (allergies), healing of the gut, mental --- . Some can, some cannot. That is different for the individual. And I don't think Dr. W. is equipped to go into all of these.

Don't you think it is a little naive to think that by eradicating the Lyme bacteria all else is going to be solved in two-three weeks time?

I am still working on the problems that were pre-existing and on the collateral damage, mainly heavy metals and mold/fungi. Some of the collaterals may never be erased.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :

I am not trying to be rude. I just want to emphasize that I am not being rude to you!! I think part of what is confusing me is that I thought your husband had been treated for heavy metals and fungus by Dr. K earlier as you always said that had to be taken care of first before the lyme could be eradicated. So, it seem like you are saying the opposite now. Or are you saying the effects of the heavy metals may be permament?

Please do not take offense at this. I am merely trying to understand more, so I can make an intelligent decision about going to Germany.

I have no amalgams left for several years(only had 4 tiny ones to remove--did not even need novacaine) and have been using a variety of chelators over the years in case I have some heavy metals. My house tests negative for mold, but I am sure I get a lot of exposure in the old school building I work in and exposure to EMF's there as well.

I know you have done many thiings even to the extreme of pulling the fuses as night--not realistic in winter here where I need the electric blower for the furnace for I would have frozen pipes and a frozen me. [Big Grin]

I have not been on antibiotics since 2005, except for a week with strep throat and a few days with major surgery.

I have used rife, laser therapy, and the Sota infrared machine along with some herbs. So, I am ready for another adventure, but want to be wise about it.

I hope your husband continues to improve and I do appreciate the information you post.

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Dr. W told Willow that she needed to get rid of the Lyme first, then test for everything else. Sometimes things can resolve when the Lyme is gone. That is why she wasn't treated for the viruses with the Lyme.

This protocol is for Lyme ..... just to stress for those thinking of coming over .... you can experiment with other treatments and nosodes later, but the treatment here is specific to Lyme.
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
Gigi said:

"Don't you think it is a little naive to think that by eradicating the Lyme bacteria all else is going to be solved in two-three weeks time?

I am still working on the problems that were pre-existing and on the collateral damage, mainly heavy metals and mold/fungi. Some of the collaterals may never be erased."

This is the part that I get a little stuck on, as much as I want this therapy to work.

I was fine with ALL these things before I had Lyme. The metal in my mouth didn't bother me, the EMFs didn't make me sick, and I'm told just about everyone has EBV in their system and lives with it just fine.

There are people over in Germany with metal in their mouths and plenty of EMF exposure to come home to.

I have heard from some people that when they had the metal removed from their mouths, they became sicker than ever and wished they'd never done it.

My husband had all the metal removed from his mouth many years ago and it did not make a bit of difference in how he felt, nor did it help him get better.

My expectation is, YES, I do think that by eradicating the Lyme bacteria I should feel a whole heck of a lot better!!!

These things never posed a problem before. Why should they make me so sick now if I get rid of the Lyme?

I was healthy before Lyme. If Lyme is gone, shouldn't I expect to feel pretty good again?

With all due respect, I cringe every time I see Gigi say something like this:

"The Lyme is gone. If you are still sick, it isn't the Lyme. It is something else."

Ok, call me crazy, but that sounds way too familiar to me:

If if isn't cured in 3 weeks of antibiotics, it isn't Lyme. It's something else, maybe "post lyme syndrome."

If it isn't cured in 3 weeks of photon therapy, it isn't Lyme. It's something else, maybe collateral damage.

That really scares me.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :

Daughter and I have been infected with mycoplasma together with borrelia and bart here in Switzerland (she was infected in Belgium first). We were only ART tested by a lyme doctor and my naturopath then (I couldn't still test).

My cat is still fighting mycoplasma here and then (according to my tests). It's the only tick born infection he cannot fight by himself but needs extra help (he was born in the wild here).

Mycoplasma are all around here, so nope, I don't think that's the difference with the US patients.

Dr. K. asked in a seminar in Germany with about 150 people, how many people in the room had insomnia or sleep disorders. About 5 people raised their arms. He said, "in the same course I give in the US, about half the people would raise their arms".

Very few suffer from sleep problems here when compared to there in the US!!

In Germany, depite EMFs etc, the life style is somehow healthier than the US (food, environment). Few would jump into abx for any minor problems since youth like I know is the case in the US. Organic food and cosmetics have been on the market since a very long time, it's a booming and growing business.

And about vaccinations, I just checked what you guys take, it sounds too crazy (here in Switzerland, people take about half of what you guys take).

All those factors could make things more difficult for the US patients, I suppose (just a guess).

Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
tracy, i see it like this:

"lyme disease" (talking chronic, lots of symptoms, disabled, debilitated) isn't "lyme disease".

i've believed this for a very, very long time now.

my son does not have "lyme encephalopathy"..
he has any number of five potential infections or more, viruses, toxins, yeast and other unknown origins of goo in his system at this point.

infectious encephalopathy plus.

i really wish, even on the infections themselves level, that the LLMD's would stop calling it lyme.

lyme = borellia. none of us chronically ill only have borellia.

chronic infection = systemic damage, organ strain, body unable to detox, lymph system clogged, colon problems, digestive problems, immune problems, absorption problems, nutrient problems.

these are my beliefs based on what i've learned though experience..
i believe that is what gigi is referring to.

we would all be different in how that presents and resolves, like, when your car's oil gets really dirty, if you were to keep driving it that way you could gunk up the whole system? bad example, but i'm too tired to come up with something better.

and keep in mind, my response is not addressing how bionic 880 tx applies to all of this, i don't begin to have knowledge enough of that therapy as of yet to speak to it..
just speaking to our illness conditions in general.

Posted by jl123 (Member # 15594) on :
Theoretically if the Bionic removed her brain fog the first time, it could do it again. Is there any reason why extra treatments could not be the answer for those who remain ill? I wonder if this is a big issue that not even Dr. W has addressed among the 5% of patients he says do not get better, and so maybe it is an issue that needs to come up now.

Of course this would require people to get continued treatment here in the US. JL
Posted by Mo (Member # 2863) on :
brussels -

there are different strains of mycoplasma. i'm speaking of m.fermentens in particular. do you know if that strain is found in europe commonly?

i know it is found in gulf war syndrome victims..

adding here: i agree with everything you are saying, and absolutely i think that contributes too. i grew up in the 70's, eighties and mom gave us frootloops and fruity pebbles for breakfast, spaghettios commonly for lunch, and good old wonderbread. i love my mom dearly, she just didn't know better.
tho much better food wise now in some ways, and coming along slowly in general health knowledge, america is not at all a healthy nation, even still.

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Since there is no valid lab test to find out whether a person holds any heavy metals in their system or how much they hold in their body and brain, the teaching is:

as long as symptoms are present, test energetically and treat if necessary. Some people need to detox for years. My husband appears to be one of them.

Before the Bionic Lyme treatment, he tested positive only once in a while for heavy metals and a few weeks later no metals showed up. That was sort of the routine for years.

Since the Bionic treatment, he tests for heavy metals non-stop.

So, I go by the old expert's rule, as long as he has still neuro symptoms, we treat the metals until none show up any longer. Hopefully soon.

I test for everything that I am aware of causing problems, and was advised by very knowledgable people to just keep on - finding and treating - as long as symptoms are present.

He does no longer test positive for any Lyme or co-infection since his last treatment in July.
That was never the case before Bionic.

I know it is very uncomfortable to listen to something we would rather not hear. If it does not concern you, just ignore it and do what you think helps you reach your goal.

This route, treating until no more symptoms, based on energetic testing, is exactly the one I followed too for myself. I am using this approach for my husband, with the support of other experienced practitioners. I was, however, fortunate enough to get well without the Bionic and truely believe this is the approach that helped me get well.

Take care.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Someone mentioned "brainfog came back". I don't have time to read all the way back.

If the major cause of the brainfog was not the Lyme bacteria, it might be another of the hundreds or thousands of neurotoxins causing brainfog or other defects, structural or exposures of some sort.

In order to make certain, Dr. W. recommends people get tested once a month for at least four month to make certain Lyme is not testing positive any longer.

He also recommends people get tested for Lyme at least once a year.

Take care.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Tracy -- start out with acquiring the biotensor and take that first step. It may help you with your decision. [Smile]
Posted by joylindy (Member # 16501) on :
Hi all,

I wanted to clear up a misunderstanding. As a refresher, I went to Germany and had great results in seeing Dr. W. I came home lyme free, and definitely improved in all my major symptoms (fatigue, brain fog, depression/anxiety, joint issues).

Before I went to Germany I saw Dr. J in Kansas. I continue on some of his supplements. In fact, Dr. W. let me stay on them while in Germany. In a PM to Hiker I mentioned that when I went off a neuro detox supplement from Dr. J (post Germany), I noticed some brain fog came back -- an indication to me that the supplement is still helping me offload neurotoxins. I in NO WAY view this as a relapse, nor do I think of this as something unusual.

I have other issues beside lyme...candida, parasites, viruses, and I haven't yet explored the metal issue completely. My body is still detoxing, and I was attempting to indicate that Dr. J's supplements seemed to be helping with that. They test very strongly with the biotensor.

Hiker and I have already PMed and sorted this out...but when I saw this post I did not want to have anyone else misunderstand and think that I was relapsing from the treatment Dr. W. gave me.
Hiker -- I just wanted to clarify, I hope that I haven't stepped on your toes. I apologize if how I communicated to you was confusing.

It makes sense to me that after the body is cleared of lyme, there are still other issues to address. I think of the treatment in Germany as highly effective, and recommend it. I do think, though, that those going through the treatment will still need to heal afterward from other things going on in the body. This only makes sense.

I just don't want people to think I had a relapse, because I haven't. I just got back from teaching at an intense seven day retreat where the participants are there for emotional and spiritual healing. I do this several times a year with 6 other leaders. My retreat team was delighted and amazed at the change in me for the positive. I didn't even take a nap all week long -- a first for me in the 13 similar retreats I've done over the last 3 years.

They even called me "Lazarette." A cute feminine nick name after the man Lazarus who was raised from the dead in the Bible.

I thank God for Dr. W. and for the healing I have and am experiencing!

Just on the road...
Posted by rachellemarie (Member # 16419) on :
For those of you planning on going to Germany for treatment, I spoke to the receptionist last night and she mentioned they are now not moving the office to the new location until April 2009. So if you're heading over before then, they will still be located in the current location.

Posted by jl123 (Member # 15594) on :
I was wondering what Dr. W does for yeast? Does he think one needs to decrease it before Bionic treatment, or does he believe he can take care of it? thanks, JL
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
I've not heard of him doing anything specific for yeast. I will add that to my questions and see if I can get an answer on that topic. He is very focused on the Lyme and I believe that he feels that the photons will help to clear out a lot of these other issues.

My Dr. W blog:
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
jl123 - Dr. W told me that yeast would be treated along with lyme.

I thought that meant he would be using a specific nosode but did not.

I no longer have the usual signs of yeast that I had in the past and think that it was knocked out with the lyme.
Posted by jl123 (Member # 15594) on :
"I no longer have the usual signs of yeast that I had in the past and think that it was knocked out with the lyme."

Wow thats pretty amazing. Thank you both for helping. So I suppose that the Photons actually
knock out yeast as well. If true that would be a major relief to me as thats a problem.

I seem to be getting closer and closer to making that trip. thanks again, JL
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
December and January are fully booked. I just called yesterday.

They will be moving end of April, but plans might change. In case they move before, we'll get a phone call (the ones who already booked appointments, so I was told).

Yes, I'm very interested in candida and fungi treatment too. Please keep us posted, Scott! Thanks.

Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
I just called 15 minutes ago and booked an appointment for January 22nd.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Funny, why so? Maybe because I wanted a double appointment with my daughter? The lady said, sorry, no more place...

I wonder why.
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
This is very strange; I just called and booked an appointment for April 27th. They said they had nothing sooner; though others have called today and gotten them in January.

All I can think of is that they are booking me after the move, perhaps? I had an extremely difficult time with a sketchy connection and receptionist who barely spoke English at all.

I also called and spoke with the company that makes and sells the Bionic 880. They cannot ship it to the US because it is not FDA approved.

They are, however, actively seeking an engineering firm in the US to work with and will then be obtaining FDA approval; so they do expect it to be FDA approved in the near future. The machine costs $5800 Euros. I don't know how much that is in American dollars.
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
Also, I would very much like to go with others; if anyone is interested in going with me at the end of April, please let me know, and please call and make your appt, as they seem to be going at the speed of light!

I would love to share expenses for car rental and share a room. Also it can't be a good idea for a sick lymie to be wandering around Germany alone, I can't even find my way around my own tiny town. I will be flying out of Boston most likely. Would be very cool to have a couple other people to go with!
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
I am going to call today and try to make an appointment. Joey has to come with me for obvious reasons and we have to bring our daughter... No one will watch her for 3 weeks [Frown]

Tracy I will email you and let you know whats going on... [Smile]
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
I cannot find the number for Dr W?????
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
Great Shandy, I will make adjustments if necessary if we can go at the same time. I really, really want to fly out together and everything. I would feel soooo much better having someone else with me every step of the way, but can't bring Blake because Cody and Ryan of course have school.

I would also help with your daughter, would babysit anytime so you and Joey can go party it down on the town once you get a couple treatments and are feeling groovy!
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
Hang on; I got it from Google but called a few wrong numbers first:

0 49 7231 313533

But I have Charter telephone and I had to call them to find out how to make an international call, and I had to dial:

011 49 7231 313533

So hopefully one or the other of those will work. Keep me posted!!! If you get sooner than April see if you can get two appts together, I'll go anytime, just want our appts together!!!
Posted by MusicMan (Member # 11966) on :
Hi there [Smile]

As of today 5,800 Euro's = 7,236.36 US Dollars

Wow! That's a lot of money man!

I hope that price goes down by about 5,000 Euro's!! [Big Grin]

Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
Yeah, that is a lot of money. It isn't mandatory to purchase the machine; clearly the cost of the machine is way more than the whole trip and treatment.

I do plan to bring one back, probably cost sharing it with others. I'm also wondering if I can use it in my practice treating people for anxiety, depression, etc....have no idea what that would entail at this point, but seems worth looking into.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :

I called germany and just called and left a message on your cell phone... I left my number...PLease call me!

Oh and they said treatment is 1k to 2k in euros.. which I think is ALOT in American cash.
Posted by LymeCFIDSMCS (Member # 13573) on :
Tracy, I might be interested in sharing the cost of purchasing a machine, if you're gathering up people in the CT/MA area! Could you PM me the cost and what you are thinking?
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Shandy - that's really not a lot for being treated for 3 weeks, at least I don't think so. One of my grandkids was just seen by a prominent LLMD and the initial appointment was $800.

My initial appointment with Dr. W was 185 Euro. That's $220 give or take.

Anyway, to everyone interested that can't go to Germany or can't go in the near future -----

My best friend is an MD and went to medical in Germany. She is fluent in German as well.

She has been an ER doctor for many, many years and is a psychiatrist. She is very familiar with the wonderful education she got in Germany and is looking to make a change.

Mind you this is still in the talking phase but it is hopeful. She has been following my progress and is most interested in going back to Germany to study this protocol- maybe with a couple of different doctors and set up a practice here using the bionic880.

I don't know what all the legal ramifications for using it would be but I'm sure it's doable.

She is in the process of moving and not sure where she will settle yet. I'm hoping it's near me because then I could work for her!

She has seen everything I have gone through and also has a good friend with lyme who is now on a feeding tube.... she has good reason to get involved in this.

I think this is exciting and I will keep everyone posted as things progress. I don't intend to let her drop this unless something unforeseen comes up in her life [Big Grin]

Please remember this is in the very early planning stages.
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
That is great about your friend. I'm sure the biggest obstacle right now is probably that it is not FDA approved, but it's good to know they are working on that.

I am trying to get a set appt to go to Germany along with Shandy. We are having a little difficulty getting a date in common, and now they are closed so we will have to call back tomorrow.

Perhaps Shandy and I can both bring back machines if others can cost share with us; she is in MA and I am in CT.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
can someone please tell me how much money you will need for all of this????
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
Here is what Steelbone posted earlier:

plane ticket 800
place to stay 500
treatment 2500
rental car no idea...guess 1000..i'm going with 3 people so the cost should be much cheaper

food for 3 weeks guess...
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
i am going over in january.

i am going to try to detox heavily before i go...metals, abx residue, etc...
i am also going to try to get rid of the mycoplasma and maybe even babesia beforehand with both llmd's abx (stopping 2 weeks before i see dr w), and also via a holistic doctor's approaches.

my plan is to also buy nosodes for molds, babs, myco, fungi, etc to bring to dr w...maybe he will use them, maybe not?

any word from anyone else over there?
any new patients return home yet?
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :

i tried sending you a PM but you need to clear your inbox
Posted by lymeparfait (Member # 14268) on :
Does anyone have any thoughts about treating a patient with Lupus with the light machines?

I have lupus, along with lyme and co. It just hit me about the need to avoid outside light exposure with lupus, and if the photons could actually damage someone with lupus?

Appreciate any insight.

Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Lymeparfait-- How can you tell the difference between your LYME or your LUPUS symptoms? I am just curious....
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Regarding the cost for the trip - I think that what Steel listed as the cost for his apartment at the Kleins was for the really small one. Only one room and a bathroom.

The current prices are on the Klein's website. I think the larger apartments will be 42-45 Euros at the first of the year.

Anyway, I had a larger apartment and it was somewhere around $1100 for 3 weeks which is a whole lot cheaper than a hotel. The dollar is stronger now as well.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Our apt. is about 920 euros .... it sounds strange, but the kitchen has a bed in it ... it's an enclosed room with a twin bed. There is a king size bed in the other room. There is a family room with a couch, that is also enclosed, so you can put a bed on the floor (thinking about Shandy's child).

Our car is about 700 euro.

The smaller room .... just a twin bed and kitchenette with a shared bathroom (with one other person) .... is 23 euro per day.

We're finding food to be inexpensive here compared to home, so you're going to spend that part anyway.
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
is that 700 euro for the car the cost per week or for the whole time you are there?

hope you are feeling better
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
10/29 CAlled Dr. W's office today. They had a January 5th opening which I could not take. Hope to go for a May 11 appointment. Would leave out of Chicago if anyone is interested.

PM me. Hiker53
Posted by lymeparfait (Member # 14268) on :

I've been so focused on lyme treatment, that I

forgot about my lupus when scheduling my bionic

treatment. I"m hoping the lupus antibodies go away

by April, but I could have it forever.

My ANA levels are extremely high and indicating

active lupus. They have gone off the charts ,

high, since treatment! llmd believes this to be

a good sign, that I may get cleared, as she

notices her lupus patients have a trend of getting

much worse, before it goes away. Hoping it's

gone before I go to Germany.

I get extreme sun sensitivity,

before ABX. My llmd sees most Lupus/lyme patients

have lyme eliminated with treatment, but some,

who have been sick a long time, end up wit cronic

lupus after all co's are gone! I have most

likely had lyme and co for many years until my

diagnosis this year.

Lupus quietly destroys the kidney and liver, and

you need to do a biopsi to find out if damage is

occuring. There are no symptoms assosiated with

early detection of it in the kidneys/liver.

I get blisters on my toes and feet and

fingers...not the lyme rash, but on veins. They

leave scars. This only happens on my families one

vacation to the Jersey Shore, with me only

exposing them in the late afternoon to walk in

the sand! Can't be that bikini babe any more!

This is different than little rashy

bumps that I also get. It creates inflamation in

my veins after going to the beach briefly. Being in the

sun is the only time my legs swell, and my veins

feel like they will explode in my legs and feet.

This lasts for several weeks, and sets off other

lyme symptoms in the following weeks. I also

start to hold fluids in my body and have trouble's scary!

Also connective tissue is involved.

Anyway, some things could be the lyme, and some

things could be the lupus as my autoimmune system

is not working. My other family menbers do not

have these particular strange symptoms, but have lyme. I am

more sun sensitive than most lyme people I know.

I"m on plaquinol; for the lupus, while taking

ceftin and tinidizole for the neuro lyme. (also

have brain lesions) Trying to get in as much

control before getting off abx for detox and


This is why I am concerned of possibly doing more

harm while trying to clear the lyme and co with

the bionic 880. Don't know if sun exposure is

similar to the "light" photons? And if the

photons will cause damage to my kidney/liver? Or

will the photons just eradicate it all!! Yipee

Has anyone been treated with the bionic 880 who

has diagnosed lupus/lyme with high ANA during

photon treatment? Would like your

Posted by ElaineC (Member # 9857) on :
Can someone post the link to the Kleins website please??
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Posted by rachellemarie (Member # 16419) on :
I have a port in my chest for IV treatment. Does anyone know if the people at Dr. W's office in Germany can access it for IV treatment, or if it's even needed? If not, I'm going to have it taken out. If I need it, I'll keep it in until I'm back from Germany.

Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Hi there lyme parfait.
Although I'm basically against the Marshall protocol, I do believe that some folks with chronic infections/chronic autoimmune disease--those who do get worse in the sun--may have the skewed Vitamin D ratios they speak of. Maybe you would like to have your Vitamin D levels tested to see. This could account for a sun-reaction.
Another possibility is viral involvement, and the ultraviolet rays of the sun stimulating viruses.
The infrared light in the LED's is not likely, I don't think, to cause you a problem.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Originally posted by nyjohn:
is that 700 euro for the car the cost per week or for the whole time you are there?

hope you are feeling better

The whole time.

Sorry I don't know the answer to the port question. I think a port would have been much easier than getting so many IV's ..... if you know how to access it, I would say it would be great. I do not know if they can access a port or not ... I really know very little about ports.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Question for Scott and Six. I know you both at some point were eating gluten free. Does the treatment make it easier to digest gluten because I was reading Scott's blog and noticed I think he was now eating gluten?

I am selfishly asking for myself because I would so love to be able to eat gluten again but am currently gluten intolerant. I miss pizza and garlic bread not to mention Bay Area French Bread.

I always look forward to reading all the blogs and posts about Germany so thank all of you who are reporting back. It gives me so much hope and I am so glad all of you seem to be improving.
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
I have not treated with photons for gluten but I can tell you that I ART tested myself yesterday for all the Lyme and related infections and none of them were blocking me. That does not mean they are gone but that the photons seemed to make them a non-issue at that point in time which was right after my treatment.

However, I tested Gluten and it still blocked me. So far, it is not resolving Gluten but again we have not treated for it. So, it may still be helpful. I just could not survive here on Gluten Free as it would be hard to find foods I could/would eat otherwise. At home, it is easier to make food at home. So I knew it would be bad, but I just decided to take a break from gluten avoidance.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I could eat gluten again after treating for parasites and bartonella. Scott is going to ART test me today and gluten will be included. Maybe I'll cut back on it significantly if I test poorly for it as I would like to get better. The photons, however, seem to be getting me better even with eating gluten, so it would be difficult to stop, LOL.

I've been back on gluten for over a year now. I was extremely sensitive to even a crumb prior to bart and parasite treatment. Healing the leaky gut is essential. Don't eat gluten until the gut is healed.
Posted by ElaineC (Member # 9857) on :
I know this was mentioned before,but can't find it now...and I know it varies from person to person...but on average, how frequently does Dr.W recommend follow-up sessions after the initial 3 week course of treatment???

Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Dr. W told me if a person lived in Germany he would have them come back once a month for a while and then be checked each year.

As you said, it is highly individual. I was told to have a treatment four weeks after I was there and again in another four weeks.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
And for me it's three more treatments three days apart, then in four weeks. It depends on if you're totally Lyme-free or not ... I am not so need the three additional treatments.
Posted by lymeparfait (Member # 14268) on :

Happy you have seen improvement!

Keep us posted of how you feel upon returning home

and with your progress after each remaining

treatment. I hope someone can follow the

outcomes for the bionic patients, to document

long term success of treatment.

Safe travels!

Posted by rachellemarie (Member # 16419) on :
Six mentioned if you have other issues (co-infections, Epstein-Barr etc.), you'll need to deal with them after the fact, when the Lyme is "cured". I have off the chart Epstein-Barr levels along with HHV-6. So, I don't know if my symptoms are from my Lyme or EB.

If I go to Germany for treatment, does Dr. W tell you what to do to treat the other things (i.e. Epstein Barr) after you return home, or are you on your own to figure that out?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
It's easy to use the machine and he tells you how to do it, however, there is a lot to figure out as well. I feel comfortable treating the other conditions (babesia) and he told me how to do it with my blood.

If you have heavy viruses, you might not feel better during the three weeks you are here, but getting rid of the Lyme is a big help.
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
does he tell you how to get your own blood into vials?

i doubt my llmd will draw my blood, bottle it, and give it to me to take home
[Big Grin]

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Prick your finger and drop a couple drops in a vial. [Smile]

I asked what to mix in with it and he said that if I had an allergy to milk, I could put milk in, LOL. He told someone else here that nothing else is needed and it doesn't matter if it's all dried up. He told yet another that it was okay to mix with potato vodka or distilled water (this person asked that question).
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Not too far from Germany there's Romania -- I believe they call it "transylvania red" there. [lol]
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Following your blog, six, and scott's, is fascinating.

I think we could get some b. microti and wa-1 in a vial--the question is dilution.

There are firms that makes nosodes. Maybe in U.S. certainly in London and India.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I am following everyone's blog. I am very thankful that you guys are sharing your experience.
Posted by karatelady (Member # 7854) on :
Yes, thanks for taking time out to keep us informed.

Posted by pab (Member # 904) on :
Thank you for sharing your experiences.

We (me, my husband, 2 sons - age 18 & 22) are in the "thinking" stage about going to Germany.

[ 01. November 2008, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: pab ]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Had an interesting and very long conversation with a practitioner in Germany. She has been treating Lyme and everything else, I mean everything else, for several years. She still has the previous model of the Bionic that was a bit different than the 880.

It was most enlightening and fascinating. She tests with muscle testing and treats all infections, all viral, parasites, heavy metals, food allergies including gluten and dairy with better results than I have ever heard of before.

I can't go into the details here because it gets too lengthy. What surprised me most is that by adding a certain prepared remedies by Allergie-Immun, which are very simply to get, she treats gluten and dairy and the results, especially for these two most serious allergies, are astounding. With all allergy treatments, she has an 80% success rate; only 5% of the remaining 20% have no improvement whatsoever.

I will be contacting the Allergie-Immun people next week. It was too late today. To find out if they can ship the product to us here.

Another think I was told today that in general, once the Lyme is out, the metals can be treated and released in approx. three treatments with the Bionic - then they clear. That is about what I am finding with my husband - I now canot find any metals any longer. Looking back, before Bionic, we have been treating heavy metals for literally years! and they were still there. After the Bionic/Lyme, they are now gone.

Some similar products as Allergie-Immun can be prepared here by my friend and mentor, A.R., with the Skasys. She brought us a total series of Nitric Oxide nosodes today so that I can treat my husband. He is very allergic to nitric oxide, which I discovered by accident and close observation. I am real proud of that - Dr. K. had looked at the symptom for several years and little old me finally figured it out. We hope that clearing this allergy with the Bionic 880 will get us another step forward.

Oh, I forgot, I keep testing my husband and discovered today that he tested for Bartonella, the first time in many months! The metals are gone. I treated Bartonella today, with the Bartonella nosode that I had sent from Brussels.

So, the reason why Dr. W. has his patients come back for checks is obvious. Many people have many toxins and many infections and the body has its own priorities and order to dispose of them via the photons.

Do not use nosodes without the Bionic. I could watch my husbands lip swelling as I had fastened the nosode to his solar plexus before he started the photons. If you have a severe infection, it is not a good idea. I heard Dr. Woitzel tell that - no nosode, without lights - but I really saw the proof of it with my own eyes today.

Another comment I heard today - the nosodes are the road signs for the photons - in other words, they show the way. The rest of what happens no one knows - except that it works.

The lady has a document that she published in a magazine that is available explaining in every detail all treatments she does citing many case histories. Of course, it is in German, and she sells it to doctors who want to learn to treat for 200 Euros. I declined for the moment, because if I wanted to share it, I would have to first translate it into English.

She will send me her suggestions for different nosodes for my husband, probably directed at age and collateral damage from old infections.

For right now, I will keep busy fixing what I dig up every day. My life certainly isn't all wine and roses, but having the Bionic solved a thousand and one problems in an instant. At least I know - once I find the problem - how to attack it best.

I would not recommend anyone use light without the protection of nosodes. What most likely happens is that you are shifting more toxins than you can eliminate that way. It is extremely stressful to an already stressed body and it is not necessary. If energetically tested and done slowly at low intensities when testing indicates, a lot of bad effects can be avoided. Today, my husband tested for only 25% of the intensity of a certain frequency --- and he was feeling as if he had done three days of hard work afterwards. All things have to fit together to do it right. If you use lights and nothing else, test energetically as best you can. The more toxic a peson is and the more drugs consumed, the more careful one has to approach it.

When I remember more of my talk today, I will tell you.

Take care.
Posted by Annsha (Member # 14939) on :
Thank you Gigi for all your work!!!!!
Posted by shimmy (Member # 15883) on :
Hi Gigi,

Thanks for sharing all that info its very interesting! Its very interesting to hear about the Germany practitioner who has been treating lyme etc with the older version of the Bionic and also about the Allergie-Immun too. That document sounds like it would be a fascinating read!

I may be having photon therapy soon in the UK and I just have a question about the Bartonella nosode you ordered from Brussels, do you have a link to where you ordered it from? Also do you happen to know what strain of Bartonella it is used for? Can you order nosodes for Ehrlichia and other infections too? I hope that it helps your husband get rid of the Bart anyway.

Thanks again and good luck to both of you.
Posted by designt1 (Member # 16568) on :
Has anyone that's been to Dr. W have joint problems? Things like Lyme arthritis and/or joint swelling?

I'm supposed to go on IV abx for four weeks in 4 weeks but I'm really thinking of going to see Dr. W this late winter, early spring.
Posted by tdtid (Member # 10276) on :
I've been following along with this thread as well as reading the various blogs. Obviously there is a lot of work that goes along with this healing process, but to have this "hope" out there is what so many of us need.

I have a port right now and think I'm reaching the point that I'm not sure how much more of this my body can take......which means I am definitely looking for "plan B".

There has been mention that Dr. W is going to change locations during the spring. Can anyone tell me if his location will actually be a different part of Germany or is he planning to still be in the same area?

Meaning, many talk about the Klein's. Is that still going to be convinient to where he might move?

Posted by jamieL (Member # 16563) on :
Where do you get the nosodes?

Is this the type you get?
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I heard that Farrah Fawcett was cured of cancer in Germany and was making a documentary about her experience. I wonder if she received any treatments with the Bionic 880?

"The German magazine Bunte first reported that the actress is undergoing chemotherapy in the University Clinic in Frankfurt, combining the treatments with alternative healing methods in Bad Wiessee, in southern Germany."
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
tdtid - One of his nurses lives walking distance from his current practice and the other two not that far away. I would imagine he will remain fairly close by but that is just a guess.

jamieL - the site you listed pictures homeopathic remedies. These are not the same type of nosodes Dr. W had us use during treatment. They were glass vials of liquid.

There is talk that the pellets can be used but I only know about the ones I used in Germany for treatment with the Bionic880.

Gigi might have an answer for this.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
The nosodes I bought in Belgium and Switzerland for borrelia were in pellets (specific for ingestion).

I don't think you'll find any lyme nosodes said to be ingested in Germany as it seems to be against the law there.

I took these ingested nosodes many times, but they didn't cure my lyme. I suspect they work much better with light.

The liquid nosodes used for this treatment are on lower dilutions (X or D dilutions, if my memory is good), right?

D (Europe) = X (USA name for the same type of dilution).
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Dr. W. plans not to move more than a few minutes away from where they now are.

Re nosodes: I wouldn't ingest them under any conditions. It can act as a vaccine. And we had one death in the family from a vaccine. You can tell how strong they are just applying them to the outside of the body!!!! Dr. W. tells that as soon as the nosodes are on the body, the photons have to be applied! I am sure he has a reason for that. Lymerix was a lesson for anyone that thought they had no Lyme in the body. It obviously brought the stuff back alive again. I just do not like them. All of you do as you wish. Nosodes and photons - yes. I am also very careful of photons without nosodes.
Photons stir things up and no nosodes to point the way. That of course is especially the case if you still carry a load of toxins.

Take care.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Scott Happy Happy Birthday!

You really are in the middle of the perfect birthday present to yourself. I am sure it will be a birthday to remember. May your birthday bring you years of good health to come.
Posted by brite7 (Member # 16245) on :
Happy Bday Scott! For those of you who have been to Germany to see Dr. W. or stil are in Germany and had problems with ear ringing, have you noticed this symptom improved with treatment?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Gigi, how do you treat the metals?
Posted by maureen2174 (Member # 11471) on :
Happy BDay Scott!

Six- I am so glad that you are doing GREAT!!!! Wonderful news..... I bet it is great to be back home now with your family. Get some rest!
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Happy B'Day Scott. [Big Grin]

Thanks to six, joey, and scott for creating such wonderful blogs. It was great to follow your journey in Germany.

Thanks soooo much to GiGi, she has had such an enormous impact in finding ways for us to find health. Despite critics and rigid thinking she has explored and pioneered new avenues for us all, as both the bionic and biotensor represent. Two devices that are finally give us an edge against this incidious disease.

Despite the concerns, the next step is to get these devices here, with practioners here. There are just too many folks who can't afford it who don't know about it who still need help.

We all knew the folks who travelled out to Germany were going to be lymenet's pioneers. Almost like Germany was lymenet's lunar landing.

Congratulations, Six -- I look forward to your progress, and welcome home! [Big Grin]
Posted by tdtid (Member # 10276) on :
Welcome home, Sixgoofykids.

I followed your blog while you were gone and hope you will continue to keep us posted on your progress and where you go from here.

Posted by GraceT (Member # 16558) on :
Hi Gigi! I've got it finally. I booked it approx. a week ago, but have been too busy with other things to report back to LymeNet ~ My first appointment with Dr. W. is February 2nd. Rachelle - another LymeNet member and fellow Lymie is traveling with me. A car is rented, the airline ticket is paid for, the appointment is made, passport is current and a suitcase is half packed.

Thank You so much for your insights.

Question: I've been using a Rife machine 1X/week. This is okay to use up to departure I would think.

Any concerns?

Question: Homeopathic drops are being used for 1 more month. Liver & Lymph detox, plus Candida support. However, I am almost through my first box (10 vials) of Borrelia Seris Therapy from Deseret Biologicals (per Homeopathic doc who uses a Bio-Meridian to test me).

Can this be a problem for successful use of Bionic 880 with borrelia nosodes??

FYI: Box reads - Active Ingredients - Borrelia, Babesia Microti and Ehrlichia combination; one vial of each of the following dilutions: 200x, 100x, 60x, 30x, 15x, 12x, 10x, 8x, 6x, 6x, Demineralized water, 25% Ethanol.

The therapy plan was to follow the above protocol (a) RIFE (b) DETOX (c) Homeopathy Borrelia nosodes for 1st month. Use Rife and Detox for 2nd Month. Use Rife, Detox and 2nd box of Bb nosodes - but drink the vials in the reverse order.

Any Concerns Anyone?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Grace, any of us here would just have opinions about it, I would email Dr. W and ask him. I'm sure he'll have recommendations.

Have a great time in Dobel, I'm glad to be home, but miss the laid-back style of Dobel .... mostly the being able to walk everywhere in town. [Smile]
Posted by rachellemarie (Member # 16419) on :
Gigi -

You mentioned in an earlier post that heavy metals can be successfully treated in a few photon treatments after the Lyme is dealt with.

If I take all my mercury fillings out before heading to Germany, and then do 3 weeks of Lyme treatment and my last week treat the heavy metals, does that sound reasonable? Or would it possibly not be wise to treat the heavy metals so close to the time I treat the Lyme?

Of course, I am assuming my Lyme will clear in 3 weeks. I'd rather deal with heavy metals with 1 week of photon treatment than years with herbs and what not.

Thanks again for all your time and wisdom! [Smile]

Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
Yes he does. He was treating a 14 yr old girl when i was there...she was from the USA as well
Posted by rachellemarie (Member # 16419) on :
I have been doing a lot of research on heavy metals lately and it appears that we are and will be always constantly bombarded with them from all angles for the rest of our lives. So, I'm wondering, just because you use the photon machine for heavy metals and clear your system of them, it sounds like this would be an ongoing process that might need to be done on a yearly basis to continue to clean out the new ones we accumulate.

Do you agree? Any word from Dr. W on this?
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :

I also used deseret biologicals for bartonella and got more symptoms of bart from it. I have tested at a low titer on IgG for bart, but wished I had not done the nosodes.

Posted by sunshinyday (Member # 14337) on :
Gigi, Six, Joey and Scott- Thank you all for sharing so much with us. It gives us hope, encouragement and help in our decision making.
Posted by GraceT (Member # 16558) on :
Thanks Hiker

That stopped me in my tracks. Wish I'd read this an hour ago. Today was the 8th vial of nosode. It's already inside me. I've been having strange headaches, which I'm not prone to.

In addition to the Bb nosodes, I had an extremely painful experience. I found an 880 in a doctor's office, asked them to use it on me. Supposidely the technician studied up to learn what to do, where to position it and so forth.

After the first treatment I thought my head and ears were going to burst. There was Zero detox from IV's even though this clinic is doing them all of the time. Head feels different now - hurts more, and so does my left jaw. Oh well - Pioneering (or stupidity) can be painful.

I'll just Rife, Detox and wait for the February appoint to get started with nosodes per Dr. W.

Thanks for sharing your experience regarding Nosodes. Most appreciated. Grace
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Oh, my, Grace, I would NOT have wanted to do the Bionic treatment without the IV's! It's rough enough WITH the IV's!! It's no walk in the park, but it works.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Grace was it a Bionic 880 machine? Sorry about your bad experience.

Six how do you know which IV to do when? I am sorry I can't send you a PM or I would explain further.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
whoa Grace - that doesn't sound so good. I agree with six about the IVs. I'll never know what it would have been like without them and I'm glad!

Dr. W said in a jovial yet sincere way that " you might get a little mad at me without the IV".
Posted by lymeparfait (Member # 14268) on :

I read on your blog that you are starting treatment for your family per Dr. W's guidelines.

Will you be doing IV"s for them with Ozone?

I am planning on treating my family when I return, and the IV"s are something I'm not sure I could do on my own for them. They appear necessary.

Please explain your plan for them.

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Angelica, I just had the saline IV's with magnesium, zinc and some herbs after each infusion. I bought some detox herbs from whole foods for my family to take after treatment, I also give them magnesium. You drink at least one liter of water while being treated as well .... even at Dr. W's office.

After our first treatment he said, "Have a good night, hahaha." LOL He also told us we would be mad at him if he didn't give the IV's.

I have treated my husband at 100% power. He had no reaction whatsoever, and I treated him Sunday.

I treated my 10 year old for 200 seconds, per Dr. W's instructions, but only at 25% power because I was concerned about her reaction.

She got a tummy ache (her worst symptom), a headache, and her wrist hurt. She still has the headache and sore wrist. She also had nosebleeds yesterday, but she has a cold so perhaps it's from that.

Lymeparfait, I did not get any ozone in Germany. My primary problem was Lyme and coinfections, and I guess I did not have the presentation of it that required ozone. So, no, I will not be giving them ozone infusions.
Posted by KirstenS (Member # 15146) on :
I was wondering that after returning from Germany and being treated will you continue seeing your llmd?
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Steelbone, We haven't heard much about your treatment in Germany. Do you think it helped? If so how much? Please feel us in or pm me.

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Rachelle and all,

You mentioned in an earlier post that heavy metals can be successfully treated in a few photon treatments after the Lyme is dealt with.

If I take all my mercury fillings out before heading to Germany, and then do 3 weeks of Lyme treatment and my last week treat the heavy metals, does that sound reasonable? Or would it possibly not be wise to treat the heavy metals so close to the time I treat the Lyme?

Of course, I am assuming my Lyme will clear in 3 weeks. I'd rather deal with heavy metals with 1 week of photon treatment than years with herbs and what not.

Thanks again for all your time and wisdom!

For most people, treatment of Lyme with photons is ALL THEY CAN HANDLE; IT can be very easy or very tough on some. Also your body needs time to clear out toxins and I would not think of starting to move heavy metals right away. Some are coming out with the die-off anyhow. But most people need a breather. Don't try to do all this like a marathon. Also remember that any disease includes some emotional clearing also. Pushing for fast action does not work, I find.

Heavy metals are not done within a week. Remember that metals are often in the brain and brainstem, in intracellular spaces. A womb/lifetime accumulation. For some people they may take longer, some may do it very quickly. There is no telling. For my husband it happened very quickly after doing the Bionic treatments for Borrelia, but he had been detoxing heavy metals for many years. It is a lot easier to detox anything after the Borrelia/Bionic tratment. This is what I am finding every day now. Maybe by the time you get back, someone will have a Bionic nearby which you can use. You may have a ``plan'' - but your body's plan may be totally different. You have to listen to its dictates.

Along with the metals leaving, other toxins will also appear that are now testable energetically, quite easily. I have been treating everything from solvents to fungi, to vaccines, to pesticides. When the infections are leaving, of which Borrelia is probably the toughest one, I found that now the co-infections will popp up too. It took my husband about a months after the Borrelia/Bionic treatment, before Bartonella showed up in energetic testing. I do not know why Dr. W. does not treat them. He clearly stated to me when I first inquired before we went to see him that the photons would handle them at the same time. His answer is that he has not had a problem with them with the locals/Europeans. But he certainly does with Americans. Some day we will know why. Maybe the European Bartonella is still a close relative of the Borrelia - while they mutated into a much more dominant creature here. I don't know. Plum Island is always on my mind.

Some of his German patients I talked with also never mentioned it co-infections. I called a German practitioner with a very busy and successful practice and asked her about Bartonella - she had never heard of it. Babesia, yes. Others, no.
But now all the other contaminants are coming. I treat them, one by one as the tensor energy allows. I will not treat anything unless I get a positive with the tensor.

It is so obvious now that since the body has been under such stress for years (my husband had Lyme for ten years) a lot of other toxins have accumulated and they are now, with the action of the photons, showing up. Again, I treat them as I find them.

We had a Skasys test done. Some of you might want to look into it. It will show most of what is in the body that does not contribute to good health at this time. The test is done with a mere drop of saliva and can be done long distance. She prepares the homeopathic covering all, and it can then be applied to the body if one has a Bionic available. The drops can also be taken by mouth, but they need to be taken for a long time. The Bionic clears things with one or two treatments.

I myself would not use any single Lyme nosode orally. I simply have an aversion, and knowing that a lot of homeopathics work on the mental level, not biochemical, I don't. With the Bionic added, it is different. (I lost a son forever to vaccines - and nosodes are vaccines of sorts). It has to be the right light, not just any light that does not have the power. The energy of nosodes point the way - pointing out ``photon, go there'' --- That's my interpretation of things. Everyone has their own - until we really know how it works.

The most important are the binding agents following any treatment. Right away. The metals show up in the urine within a couple of hours. If you drink during treatment as you should, it will show quicker. I test it and find all sorts of environmental toxin residue - pesticides, etc. besides metals. Also fungi residue appears. It's nice to be able to test it with the Biotensor knowing that this method works. Without binding agents, most people will feel miserable - not a herxheimer - just toxic because the toxins flood the system. No detox agents - but mainly binders.

I think Grace talked about feeling miserable after a certain nosode treatment. I don't have time to search for her post. If you will be seeing Dr. W. soon, relax and pamper your body now. Don't stress. The photons will work much more quickly and with less discomfort than what you are doing now. I would definitely not rife. But that is my opinion, and please do whatever you feel like benefits you. If it hurts, most of the time it is a redistribution of toxins and that makes things worse.

All this is based on my own learning and experience.

Take care.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Kirsten, I just had a phone consultation with the PA at my LLMD's office. If I continue to feel good, I don't need another appt. They will check my blood work every other month for my thyroid meds. I have an appt. set up for two months from now, but she said to cancel if I feel good.

She was very interested in the photon treatment and wanted more information on it, so the appt. went very well.
Posted by Alv (Member # 15192) on :
sixgoofykids :

Did you ever had eye floaters before BIONIC treatment and do you have them now.

I recall you wrote in your post that nothing could touch your eyes before.
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
i see that practice in a week-
i have some bionic/dr w protocol booklets.
do you want me to drop 2 off, one for her and one for j.f.?
Posted by KirstenS (Member # 15146) on :
Thank you Six for responding. I really want to take a trip over to Germany!

I am quietly following everyones experiences and enjoying the results. The thought of recovering abx free is incredible. It's been 30 yrs too long for me!

Thank you everyone for helping us gain knowledge through your own journeys. [Smile]
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Kirsten, I know the feeling .... I have had it for 35 years now.

Alv, I had eye floaters and still do. I felt the Bionic in my eyes the first time I used it .... very strange sensation.

John, that would be GREAT! Thanks. Let us know how it goes.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Please remember that when you share unused liquid homeopathics/nosodes with others and send them in the mail or transport them where they may be x-rayed, please wrap them well in aluminum foil before you send them. Only this way their potency will be protected.

The need to be stored away from EMFs, etc.

The unexcposed globuli homeo/nosodes do not need to be wrapped in foil when whipping. But they would be ruined if in higher than 120 C temperature
for more than 20 minutes.

I got this information from the manufacturer because I have been sharing some globuli with others and wanted to be sure about protecting nosodes.

Take care.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
When packing with aluminium foil, leave the shining part outside (to reflet whatever comes from out). That's what I've been told (homeopaths).

Higher potencies react easier than lower D potencies. I usually do two layers on my L potencies or high C potencies to help keeping it good. With D nosodes, only one layer.
Posted by lymeparfait (Member # 14268) on :
Selma and Gigi,

Do you wrap each individual nosode, or can you put the aluminum around the whole set of nosodes?

Posted by lymeparfait (Member # 14268) on :
Six and Gigi,

I'm still confused...and still learning.

Need clarification on IV's.

Do most people, everyone, or only some based on symptoms and severity get IV's after treatment, and what type.

I am confused about some getting Ozone, and some getting magnesium type infusions. Or do some get no IV's?

If IV magnesium was used on a patient by Dr. W., will that patient still need this IV, or other things if that was the treatment with Dr. W.

Of would orals be ok?

And expecially if we initially treat our loved ones at home.

Is there a way to know if IV's are a necessary part to aid in elimination and healing upon return, even if they were used for initial treatments.

Just thinking if I may need someone back home to help me with this for aftercare, and for treating others successfully.


Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
Eveyone gets IV's to help with detoxification. Dr W said we would not be happy with him if he didnt give us IV's..Meaning the herex would be very strong.

Me and six didn't get ozone treatment but several other people did. Dr W just decides if you need one based on your symptoms.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Is there any pattern to who gets magnesium and who gets ozone? I am just trying to figure this out incase I can get treated in the USA.

The last person that lived in my rental unit was treated by someone in my county with nosodes externally and after months of not being able to get out of bed is normal now. They had adrenal problems and were not said to have Lyme.

I doubt they were treated with the Bionic 880 but I still want to find out more about their treatment and I am hoping to maybe get treated with an Bionic 880 at some point in the USA but if that is not possible I would still consider traveling to Germany.
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
From what i noticed there didnt seem to be any ryme or reason for who got ozone and who didn't.

I think drw would be the only one who could answer that.... [bonk]

Everyone got the iv's that had magnesium solidago zinc and a few other things...

i am certainly feeling better..once i get some bart and babs nosdoes i should be a 100%

[Smile] [Smile] [Smile]
Posted by lymeparfait (Member # 14268) on :
Thanks Steel,

will you be giving yourself magnesium IV immediately after you treat yourself with the bionic and nosodes for bart/babs?

OR is the magnesium IV only used after the initial lyme treatments with the bionic?

Would I need to give my kids an IV of magnesium/etc if their initial treatment was with me in the USA?


Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I am so glad to hear about all the positive improvements with this treatment. A new day is here! A brighter day will come for all of us.
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
No more IV's for me. I might by some detox kit at whole foods.

If i feeling crummy i will run the bionic at 50% instead of a 100% so i dont get blow away.

If it was me and i was treating my kids i would start at 25% and slowly increase

The bionic lets u choose the strength in increments on 25...hope this helps
Posted by rachellemarie (Member # 16419) on :

Another question for you in terms of what the Bionic 880 can do. Obviously we are bombarded with toxins on a daily basis and I recently read that the average person has hundreds of stored toxins (from our air, food etc...) already in our bodies (toxic burden).

Would it be possible to put different products (say cosmetic foundation or shampoo) in a vial and then use the 880? Would it target the chemicals in that product that may be stored in our bodies and release them?

I will definitely ask Dr. W this when I meet him in February if no one now knows the answer.

Thanks Gigi!!

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :

With homeopathics you can remove some of the toxic load. I have pesticide vials, I have solvent vials, I have insecticide vials, that can be used for that.

I have noticed that when I started to treat my husband's for all infections, metals, fungi, mold, etc., I always find residue of any of these environmental toxins in his urins. What I find reads like the list of neurotoxins.

We are not "getting older" - we are getting more toxic! If you are sick -- you are toxic. That's what the whole thing is all about. Besides Lyme infection, it is a whole lot of others that the body at one point cannot handle any longer.

It has always been my mantra that if you reduce the infections and take the metals out, all else is not going to hang around for a long time. It takes some work, it takes patience.

Be sure to ask Dr. W. You might have to stay longer, because it cannot be done overnight or in three weeks. Our body could not handle that.

Take care.
Posted by rachellemarie (Member # 16419) on :
I'm kind of confused again about this machine. I hear a lot of good reports that people are coming back, after 3 weeks of treatment, "cured" of Lyme, or will only need a treatment or two after leaving Germany to be cleared of Lyme. But Betterhealthguy, sorry, don't know your real name, is saying in his latest blog that Lyme will not be "cured" in 3 weeks. ???? What am I not understanding here?

I will be going over in February for 4 weeks of treatment, and I'm hoping to come back better. Although will continue to do some detoxing after returning home for other things other than Lyme. I'm hoping Lyme will be completely gone by the time I get back on the plane. Wishful thinking?! [confused]
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Posted by GraceT (Member # 16558) on :
Hi Six - (Nov 3 - Sorry, I've been avoiding computer - too much EMF lately) - Thank you! I did email Dr. W.'s office, but have not received any email responses. I can fax them questions..
Thank's Hiker53 regarding nosodes orally - I really did Stop taking them orally.
WARNING to anyone who finds a `strong 880' that is not a Bionic 880, plus little opportunity for IV detox support - - - Don't Do it.

I now have a lump on my left jaw. It is located beside a molar which has a metal screw in it. Yes - this tooth will be total reconstructed very soon. Or maybe pulled. I understand Root Canals harbor bacteria. I'm using SOTA LightWorks on my jawbone to keep the pain down.
Hi Angelica - The 880 that was used here in the LLMD's Mesa office was definitely not a Bionic 880. I did ask for the treatment. This office is often chaotic and I feel they shoot from the hip.

I have overheard other patients complain of folks in the medical field making money off sick people and there were complaints at this office also. Patients have run out of money after their first two months of IV's. I plan to return to the Homeopathic technician who uses the Bio-Meridian machine for further tests .

The 880 experience was So Very Painful without a high level of detoxing dead spirochetes, (maybe brain cells ??). I can handle a high level of pain - rancher's daughter.
Thanks NanaDubo - I was only ``hopeful'' that I'd found an 880. Drank tons of water and used detox drops, etc. That was definitely not good enough without experienced, professional training. This is what Gigi was saying all along.

I was just hopeful as the technician kept saying this 880 was the same thing...that it could do the same thing. This machine had probes, not a light. The Naturopathic technician said she read online what to do. I believed her.

LymeNet readers who happen upon an 880 that uses probes - I pray you will steer clear of it. It was painful without proper protocol.

John - I tried to PM back, but your mailbox was full.

Thank You Kindly ~ Grace ~
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
No one will be cured of Lyme in three weeks. Lyme is more than just Borrelia. In fact, no one recently that left here was told they were even "cured" of Lyme. They all needed more treatments when they went home. Dr. W is very careful to say that with German patients, this process takes months.

With American patients, they have not seemed to have the same improvement as the German patients. Why? I don't think we fully know yet but only being here for 3 weeks is certainly a part of it.

Coinfections exist in German patients as well so I am not sure yet why we are different in that regard, but the photons do not seem to fully address coinfections from what the American patients are seeing so far - at least not in 3 weeks. Dr. W does not address the coinfections at all in that period of time and to date, has not had to in German patients much at all. It will probably take more time to figure this aspect of the treatment out.

Then you have mold/fungi, metals, parasites, and many other things that still impact our health. Viruses, etc. All can in theory be treated with the Bionic, but it takes time.

I think if someone says they are free of Lyme, this is possible with the 880, but Lyme in this context means the Borrelia infection, not all of the other issues. Lyme is the ring-leader and may then allow the body to heal from the other issues, but it takes time after the body is not longer impacted by the Borrelia.

There is no miracle cure though there are some very promising experiences from people around the Bionic. It will take us more time to fully realize the total benefits that are possible. This is also in its infancy and I am sure that as more people start to use it, the protocol/approach will be adjusted and refined.

Dr. W is a brilliant doctor and I trust that he believes his treatment will lead to improvement, but Lyme is a big problem and not one that will be solved in 3 weeks.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Grace. root canals not only harbor bacteria, they release a the worst toxin mankind knows called thioethers and mercaptans 24/7. It is carcinogenic. The root canal is the firs thing that gets major attention from Dr. K. if someone has progressed to cancer. I had 12 of them and they are all gone. Whether ill already or well, don't ever get a root canal. I would also avoid bridges to fill the gaps, because that leads to more root canals. Too much stress on adjoining teeth.

Please do a search here, I have talked about root canals for years. Thioethers are dead body toxins and is one of the reasons we embalm people. My husband would not have been as ill if he had not had these. They are referred to as dental toxins also and in my husband, they could energeticall be found in his feet ---- I had to detox thioethers for many months. Now, with the Bionic, I would use a thioether vial which is available for testing, and it wouldn't be half as bad. It's the stuff that keeps people dizzy, drunk, feeling as if I had a half brain only and kept me in a very depressed state for years. The day they were removed and the metals out, my life started anew. But it took years to remove the toxins from the body.

If you want to avoid futre problems: Don't ever get a root canal. Get a partial with one tooth attached to it, if you need to lose the tooth. Per researchers in this field - all root canals fail sooner or later, because they are actually treating dead teeth to begin with --------the tooth has expired but remains in the body....

Take care.

P.S. Ozone injections help some of the infections, but not if too far advanced. And they have to be repeated many times. 12 in a row. The bacteria tend to settle in that type of terrain - and they seem to hang on. It is best to do a thorough cleanup of the teeth.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
More on teeth - I was referred to a very good biological dentist by a couple of people here. The dentist and the entire staff was very excited to learn more about the Bionic 880.

They put together a complete plan for me. (step 1) Next week they have someone who comes up from Georgia with a machine (wonder if it's the Bicom?) to test compatibility for every single thing they could possibly use in my mouth. The same day they will test the three root canals I have for what Gigi is talking about. (step 2)

In two weeks I am scheduled to have all my amalgams out in one sitting. They prefer to do it this way if one can stand it so you don't have to go through trying to heal and then do it all over again.

If the root canals are going to go - and I assume they are - I imagine they will do this first. Can't imagine adding that to an already full day of amalgam removal! I have never enjoyed going to the dentist the least bit but I am actually looking forward to this.

One of the first things that happened after returning from Germany/treatment with Dr. W, was that my jaw starting hurting. Old root canal finally had the space to start screaming at me. Couldn't feel it or my body just couldn't deal with it before the lyme load got knocked out. I had the tooth removed by my local dentist but I do not know if that will have been enough just yet.

I still test lyme free with the biotensor but as Gigi has been saying all along, there is SO much more to this. Especially if you have been ill for a long time.

Being lyme free is great but it does not mean you go immediately back to feeling like you might have felt pre-lyme. I had a nice reprieve and felt absolutely wonderful for six weeks after returning home. I still do, but now there is more work to do, and more work to do and more work to do!

I at least feel like there is a direction and a plan now. When I was full of lyme I didn't even know which end was up and the only plan I had was devising a way to get through the day.

I do want to say one more time - after having gone through the treatment in Germany, I would NEVER purchase a machine and attempt this on my own without a skilled doctor who knows the machine and knows lyme,
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
now i am wondering if i should wait till summer 09 to go over to germany?
i am scheduled for january but i'd rather go when dr w has his protocol refined for us americans.
anyone agree that this would be smart?

also, grace- i cleared out inbox.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
John, You can only do soooo much in 3 weeks. I'm not sure he can refine it to the point of a perfect solution. And is there a benefit in waiting, only you can know the answer to that.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
I think you should wait, John. First of all, it will be good to really see how people feel in a few months in retrospect. They will have a better sense of how helpful it was and how treating at home has been. Second, it's much easier on the body to travel in warm weather, esp. to another country.
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
I don't think this will ever be a 3 week "cure". He may learn more from the Americans that have already gone in terms of how to address co-infections, etc. but this likely would be in the form of more clear next steps for people that return home. There is just no way to put more load on the body. The Borrelia alone is quite powerful and people doing it here definitely feel that something is happening.
Posted by rachellemarie (Member # 16419) on :
So if I'm understanding correctly, Scott is saying there is no way to clear everything in 3 weeks (which I understood before), but Lyme MIGHT be able to be cleared or at best a good dent can be made in clearing the actual Lyme bacteria.

Nano is saying that if you bring a machine back home, it's advisably NOT to use it unless under the care of a doctor that is familiar with Lyme and the machine.

So it sounds like $6K is a large amount of money for a treatment that might make a dent in your recovery, especially if you don't know a doctor that can continue treatment here in the states or have the means to continue to travel back and forth to Germany.

Just thinking out loud and want to make sure before I spend the little bit of money I have left, that this is a wise decision.

Thanks all for the wonderful advice!

Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
Hi rachelmarie,

I would agree with Scott's assessment. As powerful and potentially curative that this machine is, if you are severely ill--which you may or may not be--I don't think you'll see significant changes within 3 weeks. If your only problem is lyme, then the cards are different. Unfortunately, most of us that are severely ill probably have more problems than just the lyme bug.

Once again, I would advise anyone spending their last dollars on this trip to think twice esp. if carrying high expectations or even hopes. The use of the bionic with nosodes is clearly still in its infancy, and much experimentation by Dr. Woitzel, other lyme docs, and us is needed before I would recommend this trip as the best bargain for the hard-pressed buck.

That is just my opinion, and others that have come before me may disagree, but I think all of us would agree there is an extraordinary fog of hype to sort through right now.

I'm not sure how much we will learn in the next few months about using the bionic for co-infections, heavy metals, and how safe it is to use without the IVs Dr W offers, but as we've seen in these last few months, much can be learned in a short amount of time when a powerful therapy is hanging in the balance. I think it is worth the wait.

Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
I disagree with both Scott and Joey. Not everyone can go to Germany for the treatment.

So the answer is just stay sick. Doesn't seem to quite cut it for me as phylosophical position. Or wait for the magic elixir to solve this problem.

The treatment is now available, the ideas behind it are available. There are doctors in this country who could very capably can do what Dr. W. has done. No disrespect to Dr W. for a wonderful way of looking at solving this issue.

I'm still for getting units here and advancing the cause of knowledge. Not waiting or hoping someone is going to figure it out and put it on my door step. If I've understood anything from GiGi, knowledge doesn't come unless you try and experiment.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
If your only problem is lyme, then the cards are different. Unfortunately, most of us that are severely ill probably have more problems than just the lyme bug.

Yes, Joey is very right in this. I think I said this before a few thousand times!

I have never known a Lyme patient who was otherwise "clean". It just does not happen. We live in a world that makes it quite difficult to avoid. I found pesticides on my salsa and on a fresh cucumber the other day! Look around you -- allergic people everywhere. The body turns allergic for many reasons. Lyme then has easy access.

With the Bionic treatment and with the Borrelia gone, however, heavy metal treatment is so simple!!!! --- I am reminded of the years we had been trying to get rid of the metals from the intracellular spaces and even with all the Klinghardt tricks they were not all forthcoming. A trickle here and a trickle there. All sorts of ``detoxing pathway'' excuses! Genetics! Since the Borrelia has been eradicated, the metals are pouring out as if opening a faucet. It takes very few treatments with the homeopathic heavy metal vials.

(Had a talk recently with another practitioner in Germany who treats with Bionic - comment was - "metals are gone 2-3 treatments". )

I had been well for years, but in my own energetic testing I found that I was still carrying some heavy metals. Nothing that really bothered me. But I treated them several times, seconds only with the right frequencies, and today none are showing constantly every day. I check occasionally with the Biotensor; if I find any, I treat. No IV's - also not for my husband. I do test the setting of the Bionic every time and I do pay attention to binding agents. That is literally the only thing we take besides real food. No more supplements whatsoever.

The treatment of co-infections with the Bionic880 seems quicker, not more difficult, than treating Borrelia. I interpret that this way: One must realize, that some of the bulk is now gone and the system can release the toxins much more readily. This is also more evident in energetic testing. Without all the toxins piled up inside of us, energetic testing must wade through a whole maze of them before we get clearer and clearer signals. It makes energetic testing very easy.

Want to add here: I would not attempt to treat with the Bionic with Amalgam fillings still in the mouth, either here or by any doctor in Germany. The fillings continue to release, as long as they are in the mouth, the mercury, and the photons would have to be on a constant chase. Mercury does not belong and I agree when Dr. K. says that treating anyone for a chronic disease with amalgams and root canals in the mouth is not a good idea. I would consider this a waste of one'own energy, adding stress, and money.

I am also very certain that some of the different reactions by patients that Dr. W. sees are due to the total toxic load, and not merely the Borrelia die-off. When bacteria die-off, no matter what instrument or medium is used, metals move. Cells cleans up -- everything! not merely a few Borrelia. They start dumping. The more toxins - the tougher the reactions.

We have treated since returning from Germany: a number of different infections not directly related to Lyme, heavy metals, viruses, vaccines going back to childhood, vaccines my husband got in Navy, environmental toxins galore. Even the acetone I used to have in my nail polish remover years ago; all the solvents I used to dip my hands into when painting, doing repair work, art work, the tiny print on make-up bottles, isopropyl alcohol and all the other related ingredients. We pay a fortune for it at Nordstrom, put it on our body, and now we pay again for getting it out of the way to stay healthy. Many I find myself with test vials. Many are found with Skasys tests and some others that are similar, but not identical.

It's the accumulation that makes us ill and often the Lyme infections are only the straw that broke the camel's back.

Take care.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Rachellemarie - you posted:

"Nano is saying that if you bring a machine back home, it's advisably NOT to use it unless under the care of a doctor that is familiar with Lyme and the machine"

That is not what I meant. After having been through treatment, I would never just get a machine and use it unless I had first been under Dr. W's care. I would feel confident treating myself now.

I worry about ill people trying this on their own, without Dr. W or the infusions that help with the process.

Just wanted to clear that up. I think anyone who has been there and purchased a machine would agree that it is easy enough to continue to treat yourself as you have already dumped the lyme load or a majority of it. You can then work on other things.
Posted by pab (Member # 904) on :
We are thinking about going next summer. My kids (Jake & Jordan) have shunts because of pseudo-tumor cerebri. Jake has a VP shunt and Jordan has an LP shunt.

Does anyone know if the shunts would be a issue/problem?
Posted by rachellemarie (Member # 16419) on :
Thanks Nana for clearing that up, I apologize for misunderstanding.

That makes me feel better! I do plan on going over, learning as much as possible and then continue treatment with the 880 here in the states upon my return (without any/much help from my local LLMD).
Posted by ctlyme (Member # 9022) on :

When you treated your friend Russ did you use anything for detox?

What kind of reaction did he have?
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
ctlyme, He took binding agents, charcoal, zeolite, etc. He has been a Klinghardt patient and had done a lot of cleanup work for years. Dental stuff and detox of all sorts. But still Lyme was resurfacing. He has not shown any Borrelia anymore since I treated him -- just needs some metal detox.
But since he had done a lot before, after Bionic treatment, a lot of the metals seem to come out without much treatment. It seemed that way even with my husband. Everytime I tested his "output", I found all types of metals, as well as fungi residue, etc., even though I had not specifically treated him for fungi yet.

Russ did not have a single bad day after the treatment. It was a little more for my husband, but not out of the ordinary where I would have wanted to get IV's etc. The IV's Dr. W. does are simply short homeopathic forms. The ozone treatments Dr.W. does are a bit more demanding. Yet they did not bother my husband one bit either. My friend looks good and feels good.

The toxic load determines the aftereffects of the treatments. Not a herxheimer - just toxin release. If anyone was on abx for years, it definitely is a different picture and takes longer.

Take care.
Posted by GraceT (Member # 16558) on :
Thank you Gigi, Nano, Scott, John, Lyme-in-MD and ALL.

I will have my root canal tooth pulled. I have no more amalgyms (visible). Have no clue what materials are used underneath the crowns on my molars. My previous dentist retired.

Other than some viruses, Lyme is all that I am dealing with (that I am aware of).

You have answered many questions here on page 20. I'll do more searchs to read previous information regarding teeth, toxins, etc.

This Forum is such a Guiding Light for so many - me included.

Thank You Tremendously, Grace
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
NYjohn, I don't think waiting will make Dr. W's treatment for American patients any better. I think that what he does is three weeks is about all that can be accomplished.

After three weeks in Germany .... a sixth treatment on my machine in Germany, then two more treatments at home .... I feel almost "normal".

We just spent 4 days in Las Vegas on a business trip and the whole four days was jam packed full of activity from the time I got up till the time I went to bed at night. Probably not the smartest thing, but I felt fine the whole time, got 8 hours sleep per night, and didn't feel like I was pushing myself at all.

My air hunger has improved significantly in the past week since I've been home. Maybe my own immune system is going after the babesia?

I agree that you won't be 100% finished in three weeks, though I feel night and day different than when I went.

I want to tell you all about a watch I found while I was in Las Vegas. I was concerned about EMF exposure and just happened on this watch ... when I was walking around the store, the salesman just started talking about EMF's and the watch.

He took my husband's cell phone and muscle tested him ... the phone made him weak, then he was not weak with the phone when he was wearing the watch.

I bought one .... by the time I got up to my room a half hour later, my ring finger was all black from my wedding ring (that never happens). I have heard that black fingers from rings can be a galvanic reaction pulling metals out.

Anyway, here's the link in case your interested .... (I do not have a financial interest in this, just passing on something I found). I bring it up here because it's based on frequencies, which is so important with the Bionic 880.

The Bionic 880 and Lyme treatment is based on the earth's frequency ... so is this watch ... not saying the watch is treatment, just that it's supposed to help with EMF's [Smile]

Thanks, GiGi, for telling us about the Bionic 880. I have my life back.
Posted by ctlyme (Member # 9022) on :
Gigi,Thanks for the response.

Its great that your frined has improved and it must give a great deal of pleasure to know you had a hand in it.

Six, keep up the positive updates. I'm so happy for all of you that are improving and sharing. It sometimes gets emotional reading the positive posts.

My condition vicariously improves for about a minute when i read a post such as your last one.
Almsot feel like its happening to me and the emotion gets the best of me.

All of us are fighting everyday and to hear of people getting better gives us alot of hope.

Thanks for sharing!
Posted by Fordace (Member # 14874) on :
lots of great information here, so I have 6

fillings, and 2 root canals, what can they do to

keep your teeth. I don't want to lose any teeth.

Can someone clue me in here? Any good dentists in

NY that do this type of removal safely and recons

truction of what is left? This is scaring me. I

want my teeth........ [Big Grin]
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :

I'm not sure what your financial situation is, but my post was directed at those patients that sound eager to spend their last remaining dollars--or even dollars they don't have--on this trip. With these types of financial restrictions, I believe it is worthwhile waiting. What if you take out a loan to go in January, get treated for lyme (only), don't feel better, only to find out that a few months later, Dr. Woitzel or another German doc is treating coinfections?

I am only trying to be a harbinger for those that are putting all their eggs in a basket that clearly is very much unknown as of yet, when the situation may change in a few months. No one wants to stay sick, but because we're so sick, it's more important than ever to remember desperation often clashes with sound decision-making. I believe it is my responsibility, esp. after coming here and not feeling much better, to warn that others as severely-ill and toxic as me will in all likelihood share my outcome if Dr. W or another doc doesn't provide an expanded protocol for co-infections.

On the other hand, with all the experimentation that will be done by those who have come or are currently in Germany, I believe a plethora of information will arise in the next few months. This present the other likelihood that we may very well learn how to get this done on our own. All is speculation, but there is that likelihood.

All I'm saying is, with the pace of progress with knowledge on this machine, it may be worth waiting for more information to come in for the financially stressed. I would never want anyone to "stay sick" and I hope my message doesn't get construed as that.

Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Fordace - you can do a search for biological dentists. I would also want a referral from someone I know who has had done work there.

I think I have found the very best in Massachusetts. They are incredible and take more precautions than any I have heard about.

I would like to have all of my teeth too but if I lose some due to route canals, so be it. Would rather be rid of the toxins. A really good dentist will test compatibility for anything they put in your mouth, including partials etc.

They can do great things these days with materials that won't poison you if you find the right dentist.

Guess maybe we should start a new thread about dentistry [Big Grin]
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Check with your dentist to make sure the resin he uses to fill a tooth does not contain bisphenol-A. He will have to check with the manufacturer. It is a hormone mimic.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Joey -- I understand what you and Scott are saying about setting proper expectations. And, I do agree an individual shouldn't self treat with a bionic without the aid of practioner.

It is important we don't loose the concept of people working together. Nor the concept of improving ones condition.

As far as getting a machine here in a group situation is probably the best way to reach people who are very sick and can't afford going to Germany. I'll give you an example: a student without means, a mother barely making it, on and on and on. People who are very sick who can't qualify for disability.

Support groups working with a practioner who understands how to treat lyme. I believe using biotensors might give an edge to a group to better understand the illness and how to combat it. We need to find a better way then just going to Germany. I believe support groups becoming health groups are the answer. So together we win devided we just stay sick unless you can go to Germany and bring a machine back.

As far as my situation, I don't believe I'm far from remission. Not totally sure yet! With the biotensor I have, I don't test positively for lyme, metals, candida, yeast or fungi. I may still be battling some viral issues and mineral imbalances. I believe I'll know in a month or so. [Smile]
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Originally posted by sixgoofykids:
I want to tell you all about a watch I found while I was in Las Vegas. I was concerned about EMF exposure and just happened on this watch ... when I was walking around the store, the salesman just started talking about EMF's and the watch.

He took my husband's cell phone and muscle tested him ... the phone made him weak, then he was not weak with the phone when he was wearing the watch.

I bought one .... by the time I got up to my room a half hour later, my ring finger was all black from my wedding ring (that never happens). I have heard that black fingers from rings can be a galvanic reaction pulling metals out.

Anyway, here's the link in case your interested .... (I do not have a financial interest in this, just passing on something I found). I bring it up here because it's based on frequencies, which is so important with the Bionic 880.

How much was the watch? It looks pricey and I notice that in Canada, it sells at Holt Renfrew (very upscale department store)...
I'm interested in getting one but worried I cannot afford!
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Well, mine was an upscale model, so I don't know the pricing on the basic models. They are not cheap. [Smile] Cool idea though. You could always call the jewelry store and ask what the basic model costs.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Bob, I believe that with energetic tests, our bodies show what are urgent NOW, but not exactly what we have.

And some things are difficult to ask unless we have the proper knowledge (I'm thinking specifically about the problem of candida and fungi, that are not entities like bacteries). It's not a matter of kill and get rid of them.

I don't test for borrelia, it has been like this for about a year (mostly negative for borrelia, but sometimes it appears again). As I'm most of the times symptomless, this looks fine.

But borrelia is still here, because it comes back on and off.

I believe Gigi is right in saying that we still have hidden toxins AND bacteries, mold, fungi. Each of them may act as gatekeepers to keep toxins stored somewhere and vice versa (toxins can act as hiding places for bacteries, candida).

For some people, it is borrelia THE gate keeper. Eliminating it may trigger lots of detoxing reactions, like what Joey is saying, Six reported and so on.

My main problem though are candida, it is much older than lyme for me. Decades older. So I think my gate keeper is not lyme, but candida.

I would like though to get rid of borrelia, for sure, so that I don't have to worry about it and go after the candida ONLY.

If anyone is coming in the beginning of April to see dr. W., we will be there!
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
I definitely agree that muscle testing is just the here and now. The biotensor is definitely different, it is more a quantum device then it is just muscle testing. I believe I've got answers beyond the here and now with it. Maybe Alv or GiGi could comment on it or maybe just my experience.

Selma -- look up David Hawkins Phd and the book "Power vs Force?". I believe he uses the biotensor not just for healing but for doing quantum calculations by tapping internally to the subconscious with the tensor. In otherwords many great discoveries come from asking questions of our subconscious through dreams. The biotensor might go beyond that. Still have a lot to learn and be sure of if thats possible.

I'll be wiring the money today for the biotensor GiGi recommends. I don't want to assume too much until I have that biotensor as to my experience so far.

In the mean time, I'm enjoying some improved health. [Big Grin]
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
The energetic testing that Dr. W uses is not the same as muscle testing.

Brussels, I hope it goes well for you in April. If candida is a big issue, it might be beneficial to bring some candida nosodes with you to Dr. W's office. If you will have access to a Bionic once you get home, you can treat candida afterward.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Bob I'm very happy you're going to get the expensive one now. Please let us know if you actually feel there is a substantial difference in which case I will make my purchase.

What do you mean "answers beyond the here and now"???? PM me if you think it is too woo-woo, I'm interested.

Selma, is it possible you had latent borrelia long ago? Except for mercury poisoning, borrelia is the one other contender for creating chronic yeast problems. They then can be intractable for sure but often a hidden borrelia infection is actually the cause.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
It is Dr. K.'s firm opinion and has been for many years that the "gatekeepers", Brussels, are the toxic heavy metals. It all starts with that.

Read his article "Heavy Metals and Chronic Disease". I absolutely confirm that - my total experience falls right in line. As long as the burden of heavy metals is not reduced, at least reduced, it is very difficult to clean up the infections. It should be done concurrently.

If we cause a die-off with any of the killing meds for Lyme, automatically we also have to live with the fallout of heavy metals and fungal residue. If you don't protect yourself with enough binding agents, you are going to meet the same mercury over and over again somewhere else -- just a shifting of toxins, often followed by gut problems.

Fungi is the body's protection -- the lethal mercury would otherwise kill us. So body makes more and more fungi. But fungi also is an organism, living and dying, and we have to handle the fungi residue on top of everything else. Then you add a few infections - and you have got this most miserable disease of all - Lyme Disease.

Re Testing the here and now: As I understand it - the tensor only tells you what is happening right now. Same as any form of muscle testing: it is the present condition that is revealed. It reveals the most pressing condition - the condition the body is most concerned with at the moment of testing.

I test for a dose of a remedy. The tensor tells me - yes. I take the dose recommended. I test again an hour later: The tensor tells me - no.
In other words, at this time, I have had enough.
It doesn't mean my body will not want it again in another few hours or the next day.

I am still waiting for my book from Bioplasma. Will know more then.

Take care.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Maybe the following link will describe a little more about dowsing.

Maybe what I'm getting from my tensor is a greater sense of intuition.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Check out this link I wonder how much it costs?

Enjoy!!! [Big Grin]
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
I got my books from bioplasma in English. I'm having some difficulty getting through them but will keep at it.

Again, the tensor from bioplasma is far more sensitive than the $100 model I got from Italy this summer.

I think bioplasma has changed it slightly. Mine does not have a string that both ends plug in to one end that gigi refers to.

Mine has a small cable with a small probe that you can actually put in an apple lets say, or use the loose end to touch things with.

Can't wait to take it to the supermarket and watch the looks!
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Gigi, thanks for the input on heavy metals...

There is something ELSE there though, as you explain your husband COULDN'T get his metals off after all these years of treatment, BUT only after elimination of borrelia, his metals flushed. So somehow, it was BORRELIA the gate keeper of metals, in this sense, right?

I've seen that too in my knee. Once I killed enough borrelia there, then treated a psycho blockage, well, metals poured from it in an uncontrolable way. No mobilizer was enough to move the metals out there. Since then, no more arthritis in this knee, till today.

I guess I see that with candida-fungi too, less clearly though. Waves of detoxing, but somehow, my metals are stored in the fungi and the KILLING comes sometimes FIRST. I'm to a point that I need some extra techniques to get rid of the remaining heavy metals, and normal chelators, psycho treatments are not being enough. Much like your husband, I suppose.

I just realized, for example, that Mucor racemosus blocks both energy flow and blood flow to the extremities. Treating mucor made my hands and feet get warm, things that I don't have memory since childhood. Without blood circulation, no way to get things moving, metals, or my immune cells to kill fungi. These are the only parts that test for candida.

Now that a blockage was treated through KILLING mucor, I can go next step and maybe, metals will come out from hands-feet?

Somehow, I believe on metals and toxins being responsible for my sickness, but once infections get there, the order of elimination is not NECESSRILAY metals first, then pathogen after... See what I mean?


SIX, thanks for the tip. I'll take the few nosodes that I'm using to his practice. I start to feel some hope with the actual nosodes I'm ingesting and rubbing...

And there are MANY practioners in Switzerland with the Bionic, I got permission from at least one to use his machine the way I want! Congrats for your well being! [kiss]

BOB, even though I believe the biotensor is NOT muscle test, you are right, it is close to a pendulum, right?

Yes, you can certainly get more ethereal answers from a pendulum than with muscle tests, but there is still a LOT of limitation there.

You can't win a loto with a pendulum or with your biotesnor, can you? [Wink]

The ultimate and most precise and subtle energetic machine is our own body-spirits. With or without expensive equipments, each of us are THE source from what these energetic tests work (or don't work!). Dr. K. always joke on the loto.

On higher and subtler levels, no machine will work. It's a matter of you and the spirit or the energy, no matter how you call it.

Anyway, the biotensor of dr. W. DOES miss borrelia in many patients, as after the 5th treatment (not testing for borrelia), patients who test negative are SUPPOSED to come back for testing months later.

The biotensor is not muscle test, but it is not as precise as reality, I mean.

By the way, I don't use much muscle tests anymore, I just use my body as whole to choose homeopathics, herbs, amount etc. My body can show me where to treat with accupuncture WITHOUT questions yes-no.

I know where each herb is acting in my body without questions yes-no. It is not magic, it is just a big short cut to these yes-no questions. I guess the biotensor could do the same, just let it move and show where each herb is acting in your body...

Have you ever experienced a massage done by someone whose hands know exactly what to do? That's how the whole body as a biotensor works! It's close to nirvana on earth!
[Big Grin]
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Oxy, no I don't believe I had borrelia for so long.

I was living in borrelia free country when my candida infections began (at least, I don't know anyone suffering from lyme disease in Sao Paulo)...

None of the people I ever tested there had borrelia either, nor the common set of symptoms we commonly attribute to lyme.

It may be slowly coming, but I really don't think I got borrelia for so long.

SP a big jungle of concrete and polution, my parents say that even flees don't survive there anyomore. [Big Grin]
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
When Dr. W tests for borrelia, he uses the Bicom, not the biotensor. The Bicom tests for frequencies. You hold a metal ball attached to a machine in one hand, he puts the nosodes on a plate on the machine and tests your other hand to see if the nosodes stress your system or not.

I was not tested with the biotensor at all when I was there.

Interestingly, I was tested with ART by another patient of Dr. W (you can guess who it was [Smile] ). I have always used my own intuition on what will work for me .... there are supps I LOVE and ones I HATE or think are useless .... ART had the same findings I did regarding all the supps. There were no surprises.
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
can you pm me?
i am curious as to what went down on your nov 4 consult.
i brought j.f. the pamphlet...
not sure what is next.

thanks a lot

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Brussels and all,

When I repeated the word "gatekeeper", I was referring to the heavy metals as the ones who are there first to have contaminated our bioterrain. They are the door openers for everything else.
Once the metals settle, fungi follows very quickly. Other environmental toxins find their way also. The invasion of microorganisms is then also set to take place. They love to live in the contaminated terrain where they are not disturbed by excessive and oxygenrich bloodflow, etc. etc.

Getting rid of all of it differs, I am certain for everybody. We store different toxins/emotional problems in different layers.

Dr. W. has discovered that he does not wipe out every bit in five treatments. He can't, that is my opinion, because the other toxins are in the way; the heavy metals are still everywhere. Some people still have toxic dental situations - another place where microorganisms love to hang out. He has found that by people being retested once a month for at least four months after the original treatment, he can catch if anything remained behind. For that reason, he also recommends that people be tested at least once a year.

Since the damage and neuro symptoms are so very much alike the neuro symptoms caused by the different infections, the metals have to be addressed somewhere. Testing always tells me which one has priority. Now, if I find anything with tensoring I treat all together - knowing that the load has been lowered.

I find with my tensor cord testing heavy metals, fungal residue, mold residue, bartonella residue etc in urin. I have not found borrelia residue because that treatment is several months old. But I will certainly keep testing for it.

All the toxin sources seem to live together, and moving one, will activate the other. That's what I think happened in my case. I never had a herxheimer that I could define as such. But I was always treated for the different metals and infections as they appeared in muscle testing or other energetic testing. It was always a sort of play of back and forth. One leaves, the other shows again.

But it is Dr. K.'s opinion that all starts with the heavy metals, often in childhood before we are born if Mom had mercury in her mouth, and the kids already arrive with fungus and starting into food allergies and other allergies early The problems became increasingly worse with more ticks, more spraying, more microwave towers that help a virus replicate like rabbits, etc.

Got to go.

Take care.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
John, I enabled my PM's.

L. was very interested in the treatment since I was doing so much better. She said to keep doing what I'm doing and I don't need another appt unless I get worse again.

She does want me to do blood tests every other month since I'm on thyroid meds they've prescribed.

She said she wanted info on the treatment in case they want to recommend it to someone else. [Smile]
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Six, thanks for the info. I thought he used the biotensor...

Is this the Bicom?

If it is, it looks like the ancient Vega... Husband and I were tested for heavy metals with the Vega... It worked pretty well, but absolutely nothing different than muscle tests. Obviously.

I wonder if Bicom would be more sensitive than the biotensor. I suppose not, because it shall be closer to muscle tests, if this works like the old Vega.

The biotensor would get more than the physiological response than the machine, or am I mistaken?

The biotensor just doesn't look that professional, I agree. [Big Grin]

The good advantage is that any machine is "theoretically" independent of the autonomic nervous system of the doctor who is testing!

Anyway, I'm curious to know why does he use this machine instead of the biotensor. The only reasons I can think of are the above mentioned, it looks more professional to convince the skeptics and it is independent from the ANS from the tester...

Anyone has any other idea?


Gigi, thanks again for the info. I guess it's a problem of way of expressing things (I didn't use the word gatekeeper as you did).

For me, I'm interested in how to get rid of heavy metals, and what blocks that release I called it a gatekeeper.

I do agree with you, that toxins play a big role on chronic diseases!!
Posted by Alv (Member # 15192) on :

Please list the names of all nosodes ( ampulles that you bought in Staufen -Pharma) so every body has them here rather than asking you personaly.I am trying to figure out a list of nosodes from Diferent places...for diferent disease.

BOY I need all the nosodes you got as I have the same thing TOO.( confirmed before with QXCI test/Frequensies on RIFE / BIOTENSOR and ART my LLMD).

I guess is a shorcut for you.Boy all of us bit have EBV, HHV6.Biofeed back test showes that my kids and I have it.Candida ( yeast -fungus)also.

Do you know if every person of the family need to have their own nosodes to test( I talked to somebody and told me YES).Just reconfirming is good to hear.

Wow I am so happy for you.NO kidding BIOTENSOR was the best thing that happened to me( it really saves you time and MONEY as GIGI said).

Thanks GIGI for sharing ALL of your exsperinces with US!!!!

Please mojoy list the names the way are written on your NOSODES.

( I also wrote to somebody that ART and BIOTENSOR showed that MY daughter has LYME and BART -while one of the best LLMD missed it and IGENEX had just one band .Personally I am done with labs /I will run only Cd 57 and that is it from now on)
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Brussels, your link was no good.

I like the Bicom because it works on frequencies of the body.

Here's a link I found
Posted by lymeparfait (Member # 14268) on :

Congratulations & Celebration!!!

Your blog headline brought tears of joy to my eyes for you! And wow, EBV and HHV-6 eliminated as well!

I'm going in April, and want to get those nosodes as well...did you get them in Germany or before hand in the USA? Please list or PM me with advice on purchasing them and bringing them to Dr. W's.

You have a great story to tell the world! I love your style of writing, very entertaining as well. It would be great if you or someone from our lymenet community compiled the experiences of all those that have done the bionic treatment. Along with follow ups over time of continued health status.

You are all pioneers and deeply appreciated.

Congrats... and safe travels home!

Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
yeah, joey, yeah!

that is fantastic news!

i want to follow in your footsteps.
i also would like to hear what/where nosodes you obtained. i'm all over them.
biotensor, too- did you pick it up at dr w's??

i hope you continue to blast through the ailments. keep us informed.

best wishes

Posted by ItCantBeTrue (Member # 17151) on :

I know you tested negative for Lyme but I was curious if you felt better since starting treatment.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
thanks guys,

I'm not gonna list the names of the German nosodes I got here because the german gov't is closing in on their "over-the-counter" sale.

However, for those that are gonna go to Germany, PM me and I can give you the names of the pharmacies that I went to there.

My symptoms haven't changed significantly, but that was expected. As I've said before, I was one of the sicker patients that came and I still have a lot of work to do. This treatment works, but only on one thing at a time. HHV-6 is my biggest problem right now, and the fatigue and cognitive impairment won't go away with that, co-infections and heavy metals still swimming around.

anyone that plans to use this as evidence that the treatment doesn't work, go ahead and wear your tunnel vision. Very few if any of us Americans have "only" lyme.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Joey -- fabulous news and thanks for such a wonderful blog! [woohoo] [woohoo]

I'm trying to make some of the support groups aware of the blogs so they can get a feel for the treatment. There are hundreds of folks who still don't know of this treatment in my area. I just mentioned it to my support group about a couple of months ago.

All the blogs were such great stories. I think all of you did such a service not just for yourselfs but everyone who now have or may get lyme into the future. I for one salute and thankyou for those efforts.

On a separate note, I heard at the National Capitol Lyme Support Group, Dr. S. of Maryland talked of Dr. W.'s treatment and is now showing interest. So the LLMD's are becoming interested as well. So maybe there's hope practioners will get with the program and have devices here. [Big Grin]
Posted by ItCantBeTrue (Member # 17151) on :
For those of us who are interested but can't afford it, I am wondering how the bionic 880 compares to Lightworks and other LEDs.

According to the manufacturer, the bionic has

84 diodes at 880nm
IMF: 2.47 hz, 4.92 hz, 7.83 hz 80 hz
Energy density: 1.68 mw per inch of skin

By comparison, the lightworks has:

Constant current of 20 milliamperes per LED (Constant current ensures each LED has the same output.)

60 x High Intensity Red LEDs at 660nm wavelength (+/- 10nm),

Approximately 197mW Total Output
55 x High Intensity Near Infra-Red LEDs at 880nm wavelength (+/- 10nm)

Approximately 228mW Total Output

Frequency tolerance: +/- 1Hz

Power Input: 12 Volts DC @ 1.0 Amps

The DPL has:

154 LEds at 880nm

I'm just wondering if the bionic isn't a bit overpriced...
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
The Bionic has more setting for frequencies than you have listed.

It has a fan to cool the LED's. The Lightworks doesn't need a fan, so the output must be different.

I'm treating the rest of my family so the Bionic has been pretty economical for me. [Smile]

It would be easier to compare if you had the info listed in the same format for each machine.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Joey, loved your blog post.
Where did you buy all those nosodes--can't Dr. W buy them at the same place?

Your energetic happy face looks completely different than the regular pic on your blog. You look like you got your mojo back.

Please keep us posted when you get home.

PS Joey--the t.b. could be a miasm.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
thanks everyone! Although I'm still fatigued, I do feel different. Maybe it's knowing that I don't have to take ABx anymore, maybe it's knowing that I'm finally getting somewhere, maybe it's the photons, maybe all of the above. Either way, it does look and feel like a new day.


[ 15. November 2008, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: m0joey ]
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
Dr. Woitzel will not treat Americans for co-infections if you're gonna be there for a month. It takes 2.5 weeks alone just to treat lyme. Also, He doesn't carry other nosodes in his office because his focus is lyme. Europeans don't seem to have the number of co-infections that we have in the U.S., which is why the bionic treatment has reversed symptoms much more rapidly for German patients. Thus he hasn't needed to buy nosodes for those other infections. Also, don't forget he uses live vials of borrelia, not just nosodes alone, as part of his bread and butter treatment.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
I just read Scott's and Joey's blog. You guys are amazing. You are still saying this is no miracle treatment but saying you don't have borrelia anymore? [bonk]

A cold can cause fatigue, fungal infections do cause fatigue, herxes, blurred vision or brain fog...

You may not feel great, but sorry guys, NOT HAVING BORRELIA anymore SO FAST does look like a miracle to me !!!! [Big Grin]

Have some pitty for us here, who have been fighting for so long, and stop saying this is not a miracle treatment. If not a miracle, IT IS PRETTY DAMM GOOD!

Congratulations to you guys!

Even if borrelia comes back, if you can make it dormant with a single photon treatment, guys, you got something better than gold in your hands.

Take a look at my post on Sanum treatment for fungi and yeast. Sanum is widely used in Germany against fungi and yeast, I'm also treating loads of tuberculosis and pneumonia remnants with Sanum (I NEVER had any lung symptoms either, like Joey, except for air hunger with babesia), this is an amazing fast and completely different way to treat these infections.

I hope you guys either join the candida-fungi war club and share what you find to treat these VERY persistent critters. Dr. K. suggests that getting rid of fungal and candida infections take about 9 months.

Congrats again, and thanks for having posted. Just come down to earth, look at us, poor borrelia sufferers with compassion and stop saying this is no miracle!
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
We do have coinfections. I had all of the ones dr. K. could test, and not only once, but every time a tick infected me, it NEVER had only borrelia.

So did my daughter. Multiple infections at EVERY SINGLE bite. She was infected in Belgium and in Switzerland. I was infected in Switzerland.

My lyme doctor in Switzerland says coinfections are extremely common. What is uncommon is to find someone suffering only from borreliosis.

Ricketsia for example, is very known in Belgium, even by the dummy doctors. So nope, Europeans do suffer from several coinfections. Even my cat suffered from mycoplasma.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
What I find Europeans different is that they do eat better than you guys. Healthier I mean. I can't imagine Scott still drinking Diet Coke knowing he's got a chronic disease.

That sounds absurd to me. Or eating Burger King. I mean, my daughter doesn't know what is McDonalds or any fast food, and she's almost 5 years old. Never ingested a hamburger that was not home made.

I never bought a bottle of sparkling sodas since I fell sick, and I don't remember taking a glass of soda in the past 2 years.

Bad eating habits, yes, I think you guys have them much more than the average European. That could count on treatment being more difficult for you guys... Just a guess though.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :

Thanks for your wonderful blog and all the information you shared with the rest of us and a super congrats to you!
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
faster-paced lifestyle, stress, EMFs too
Posted by GraceT (Member # 16558) on :
My eyes are too tired to read the entire thread 0 so forgive me if this is a repeat.

Here is the BioCom - aka: BiCom 2000

You can access it at the following url:

Also, here is the link for Deseret Biologicals...

Smiles, Grace
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :

[ 15. November 2008, 01:20 AM: Message edited by: m0joey ]
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :

In 3 weeks, there are no miracles. GiGi has also been very clear that many people with Lyme disease have much more than just Lyme. So a miracle would be you wake up and all your ails are gone and never return. Getting rid of Borrelia does not create that alone. There is more.

There is also debate about what the Lyme being "cured" really means. Is it that it is physically gone forever or just that it no longer harms us - no one knows for sure. So, whether or not our conventional doctors and conventional tests also show that Borrelia is gone still remains to be seen in the future. Whether or not we begin to feel better remains to be seen. I don't think anyone here would call it a miracle if they still feel the same.

I agree with you though that I feel very optimistic and grateful to have this tool. Dr. W is brilliant and I am continuing to treat at home and hope to see continued improvement. At some point, I'd like to be able to say it is truly a miracle.

However, to suggest that now and to have people running over to Germany selling their trucks and taking on loans, etc. would also be irresponsible of me. I am attempting to provide an accurate picture of my experience with the treatment so far.

BTW, I drank diet code a few times the days that I was there enjoying myself a bit as well. I have not prior to that had ONE diet coke in almost four years.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Scott, you forgot to add the process of getting well is to think you are well after being sick a good bit of time. Being sick is a condition our bodies get used to. I say have the diet coke and think it will do no harm is another way of saying, I don't have to be soooo careful. And test whether or not there is an adverse physical reaction.

The food you ate in Germany, did it have any adverse reactions to your body?

We get conditioned to believe we have to be gluten free. I had to, I don't have to anymore. In a matter fact I had a bakery sour cream donut today with no repercussions. We had a celebration at 11:00, so I had a piece of cake. Two cookies after lunch. Ok I ate well for my meals, but I'm not so careful. A sign of improvement from 4 month ago.

So yes that is more sugary stuff than I normally allow, but I feel I can handle it. [Big Grin]
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
Cake? Cookies? Oh no! [Smile]

I actually am usually very careful about sugar due to yeast issues while I was on antibiotics (no longer but still careful).

I ate tons of "backerie" products in Germany and loved every one of them. Now it is back to the US and a decision about whether or not to go back on my no-gluten diet. We will see....

I probably should have a diet coke and think about it. LOL Now that I am back, the diet cokes are gone. I do believe aspartame is bad for us and limiting exposure ideal.

Enjoy your cookie. I need to get off of here and grab a piece of chocolate... [Smile]
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
it might just be easier to eliminate wheat but dabble with other glutens here and there...

wheat is a common major intolerance in humans. i think that it goes unnoticed too often.
once i got off wheat, i tossed my advair discus ("preventative" for asthma), and my breathing became much better. once the healing had kicked in, i stopped using any rescue inhalers. i bought my last inhaler about 2 years ago and haven't taken it out of the box still.

another thing is to limit nightshades, but you all probably know that already. tough to do in germany with all those tater dishes.

i still eat gluten-free since i don't find it to be much of an issue to avoid it. even when i am all better i still might stay off it, but if i have to eat out, and let's say i order a stir fry that has soy sauce in it, well, that is just one meal and it won't kill me.

gluten sensitive is not the same as intolerant, which certainly isn't the same as celiac disease.

sorry for the brainstorm and topic change, sometimes once i start typing i cannot stop.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Let me just tell you here, I ate anything and everything (without preservatives and articifical colors and flavors) with gusto and got well just the same.

The stress of looking at diet books got to me after the first fifteen minutes.

I drank my coffee, lots of it - I consider it an anti-oxidant. I ate lots of fruit because God gives it to us. American bakery goods are a disgrace - but now the Germans are beginning to add as much sugar as is done here. So I bake my own.

I try to avoid stress. Run from it.

By the way, the combination of Bionic treatment plus the Allergie-Immun treatment combined with PK (solving unresolved conflicts) clears gluten and dairy allergies very nicely. Per Dr. K., gluten allergy often goes back to "Father" and dairy allergy originates often with "Mom". Thse are the conflicts that can be solved with PK (psychokinesiology = solving conflicts with muscle testing and talk - simplified) , a brainchild of Dr. K. The Allergie Immun website will have some English text soon, hopefully before the end of November.

We are ordering our AI test today for my husband. It is very easy and can be done long distance. It should really be called a sanitizing therapy test. It cleans up some of what we have collected during years of life and illness neglected by a burdened immune system, problems which would be very difficult to pinpoint any other way. A part of energy medicine.

Take care.

[ 14. November 2008, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
I also still eat fruit. Fruits are the 'cleansers', vegetables are the 'builders'. The only times I have gotten better have been with a raw vegan diet, which I'm slowly incorporating again, I have lost too much weight with the anxiety and am trying to gain a little before going full blown diet-wise. I do stay away from aspartame though, I think it's bad stuff. I think a little chocolate or whatever here and there won't hurt, there is a big difference between eating a few and then eating the full bag!

I'd rather eat a homemade chocolate chip cookie with organic ingredients than a rice a roni 'meal', those things are loaded with preservatives/chemicals.

Anyhow, just my 2 cents....

Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
yes, you have to eat some fruit!
i like apples. it's apple season here in ny.
a typical snack can be apple and walnuts.

when i was last in germany, two years ago, i was already off glutens. but while there, i did eat gluten (just not wheat), and seemed to not have any issues with it. hey i wasn't going to not drink that great beer!
i also ate lots of taters, wheat-free pretzels, and even pushed it and ate some vienna-style schintzel (coated in breading- i scraped it off but i am sure i ate some wheat residue).

being afraid of everything will only make you miss out on enjoying good things in life. yes, i avoid gluten at the time being. i don't have to, but i choose to for a good while longer. since i don't drink beer at the moment, and tend to eat primarily asian food, being gluten free isn't a problem. it helps to keep the guts clean for optimum performance.

i also agree that a vegan and raw diet can do wonders. but not when you are trying to gain weight! you can gain weight being vegetarian, though, yet i do feel that cheese should be added for the extra fats.
i wish i could go raw/vegan, but i am finally back to my old weight, when i was vegetarian, and i need to keep it on. but i agree with ocean in that raw & vegan can in fact be great for healing from ailments. but dang is it expensive if you don't make your own!
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Still hear dr. K. say "never met a healthy vegetarian" in the western world. you cannot detox heavy metals without adequate proteins."
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
I agree with you, doing the raw thing was the only thing that helped me, being sooooo sick for two years was the only reason I became a vegetarian in the first place. I did improve over a few months, being raw is hard and very expensive, you are right about that! After awhile though, I looked forward to the carrot juice in the am and sometimes even the barley grass (although I still plugged my nose!). I also added dulse the last time back in 2005 when I was getting well from my relapse that lasted 2003-2005, and I really think that helped.

I took dulse twice last week, then we all got either stomach 'flu' or food poisioning and I haven't taken it since. But my anxiety has been better, so maybe it was the dulse? I know it also can help with heavy metals and it's anti-parasitic, anti-bacterial, ect.

Yes, right now I am eating cheese, I made homemade chili (veggie with garlic, onions, red peppers, tomatoes, it was yummy!) and had cheese on it tonight. I'm also eating organic eggs, I know they have something in them that is supposed to be good for anxiety.

My alternative MD is the same way, one of his employees is a vegan and the dr convinced him to start eating eggs. I just know that my Lyme improved when I went veg (not everyone is the same), I've never gotten back to that rock bottom I-have-to-lay-in-bed all day thing where I literally had to force my legs to move since and that's my story and I'm stickin to it [Big Grin]

It's funny b/c when I was in the ER for a panic attack, I really wanted a CBC and e-lyte panel done and I knew the doc knew I was just panicking. I told him that I 'worried' that my e-lytes were off due to my being a vegetarian for 10 years. He ordered them, came back when they were in and said, "Well, you really can't argue nutritionally with these results, your hematocrit is about as high as you can get."

I would love to meet Dr. K though, I've read much of written articles online and I think he's a very intelligent doctor.

well, I'm off to bed, take care,
Posted by clairenotes (Member # 10392) on :
That is interesting about the psychological aspects of allergies, Gigi. One practitioner/friend I know and have a great deal of respect for also feels that there are strong emotional components to allergies and we did some desensitization for our daughter early on with NAET and also recently, as well as with another biofeedback system. I have a background in psychology and all of this resonated with me quite a bit.

In our case, however, the solution ultimately was found in clearing infections and toxins. We believe, after much research and investigations, that my daughter was a vaccine sensitive child in addition to getting LD passed to her in birth. And one thing that appears to be common with vaccine sensitive children is multiple food allergies from very early on. She was allergic to many other things as well, but, for whatever reason, it was only the wheat and dairy that needed to be excluded to stop her asthma attacks.

She is now able to eat some dairy and wheat without symptoms... dairy once a week, wheat a few times per week and is only halfway through her lyme protocol.

I had a very similar pattern... not able to eat anything until the infection was reduced, and now enjoying pizza (healthy pizza - viccolo cornmeal crust, organic cheese etc) once a week or so. And crepes!

But for the most part, for me, I like how I feel/look on a more disciplined diet and don't plan to change much. Not vegan, or vegetarian... but organic, fresh foods as much as possible with little carbs, dairy, sugars, caffeine, etc. I just love eating tomatos and avocados for breakfast, maybe with a little sauerkraut or a hard-boiled egg. I just feel great energy from it.

I know... very ahem... interesting.

Posted by clairenotes (Member # 10392) on :
Regarding vegan, vegetarian, raw foods diets... I wanted to add that I really wanted these diets to work for me and tried off and on for years, but always got too weak. I eventually found that I really needed some animal protein, though much less is required now. However, there are clearly people who do thrive on vegetarian diets, even in illness, and in fact, do progress on it. I think our diets are very individual in the end. We just have to see what works for us... maybe with some guidance from nutritionists and/or other health professionals.

Anyway... back to topic.

Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
I completely agree Claire! Everyone's body is completely different, I know what I need by what I'm craving. I craved fruit yesterday, sometimes it's eggs, sometimes, beans (although I loooove beans, I could eat them anytime). We all need to do what we feel is the best to get well.

Take care,
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Our food supply is poisoned, contaminated, and leached of good nutrition. Even our organic food supply is poisoned, contaminated and often leached of good nutrition, though less so. I want a certified NOFA or California organic, not "Qai" an international certification I'm sure is corrupt and loosely using the term. If you get organic eggs you're still getting eggs from chickens cooped up with no space at all living disastrously awful lives given "organic" feed that is on the low side nutritionally.

If you can shop from your local farmers and from Amish farmers try to do so. You'll see the egg yolks are a bright rich orange-y yellow because they have so much good nutrition (Amish chickens get to have their coop moved daily, out in the sunlight, with fresh wild stuff to eat along with feed; their cows are not fed corn, but grass fed and get to graze or eat hay. Their chicken is unprocessed, even organic chicken may have less antibiotics but it is again, from chickens fed cheap organic feed, and cooped up, and then processed in sodium phosphate. Tastes awful compared to genuine Amish chicken---once you taste the real thing, you can't go back, organic tastes awful in comparison). The tomatoes from my Amish farmers are the best ever like tomatoes from my youth. Organic tomatoes are better than non, but they don't taste that good once you taste "real" tomatoes grown in rich soil naturally and just picked for you last week.

If you have a house, grow your own veggies in spring summer and fall.

In an apartment it's harder.

It's better to get local produce fresh from your farmer even with some pesticides, than commercial stuff.

Look at the color. Celery from local farmers at my greenmarket is always a nice bright green, and organic celery in the supermarket is pale.

Color is a big indication of whether something is really good for you. Organic egg yolks are yellow. Not orange like Amish egg yolks. At least the shells of organic eggs are strong. Non organic eggs have weak shells, showing they are even unhealthier.

Do the best you can...I learn new things daily. I barely eat anything from the supermarket anymore as it is poisoning us with sugar and salt to excess. Nothing in a package is without sugar and salt. I make my own beans, its easy. I just learned that raw cashews are not raw. They are boiled in oil. They just say raw because they're not roasted. There are apparently a few brands that are actually processed RAW.
Posted by Dave6002 (Member # 9064) on :
O2, very good points.

I always think that the modern food industry is mainly responsible for many diseases (even including Lyme) that have been arising sharply.

When you eat a lot of junk food, you don't have a strong immune defense system against invading pathogens.
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
Yup, O2babe,

I agree! I get my eggs from one of my mom's students. I had her ask him what becomes of the hens when they stop laying. They let them live out the rest of their lives, they have a small farm, several acres, when my mom picks the eggs up, the chickens come to greet her =) We always had chickens growing up, one became one of my good friends, she came to me when called and she died in my arms, I miss her.

We want to move next spring summer to place with several acres, we only have 3/4 acre now, but lots of trees, so too shaded to grow much =(

I am lucky because we are in the middle of Amish/Mennonite country, I bought some gorgeous mums a few weeks ago from a Mennonite place for $2/each! I dread winter because I have no choice but to buy produce made in greenhouses, although we do have a fruit market down the road that sometimes has more fresh items.

Great points, I grew up on organic food, ate things like whole almonds and dried figs and almond butter sandwiches in my lunch, other students thought I was 'weird'. But it's kept me going thus far!

I have read that certified Organic by Oregon Tithe (I believe that is what it is called) is about the best you can get. I personally look for that certification when purchasing food.

Also, the reason that most 'raw' cashews aren't raw is because it is EXTREMELY difficult to get the toxic layer in between the shell and nut off without boiling. The truly raw cashews are expensive due to the laborious extraction process.

Also, California passed a law last Sept stating that almonds much be flash pasterized to ship, so almonds are not raw either now. However, you are allowing to buy and pick up the almonds from the almond grower themselves. I tried to do this before we moved back in Oct, but it was harvest week and they weren't going to be there.

Thank you for putting out this valuable info!!

Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Trying to buy organic even in Calif. can be tricky. One local farmer who I trust told me that the government just checks on paperwork when they drive out to inspect organic farms and some growers sadly lie about what they are growing because they can get more money when pretending it is organic.

I also heard on public radio that stores like Trader Joe's and Walmart will say something is organic like milk and it will be from a very questionable huge dairy that is not really organic.

When I was in Australia the produce was much better then the produce in the USA. I think parts of Australia have better soil that has not been over used yet.

I wish we had Amish farmers around here but at least we have many small farms and some serious organic farmers.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
One thing I have considered but not had the time/space to do is, to dehydrate some of the summer produce I get and store it. But really I don't have much space...

I belong to an Amish farmer collective. I particularly use one farm and have had some nice conversations with my farmer over the phone.

I try to eat sardines (fresh!) whenever they are around, as they are small fish that don't get super polluted and have great Omega 3's and are cheap.

I'm sure I could do a lot better but the more I learn, the more I shift my eating habits. In the winter i tend to buy organic frozen blueberries and freeze up small bunches from the bag, and snack on limited amounts.

I have trouble with grains because of mycotoxins. I actually do better with plain old white rice.

I wish I could move to a more natural lifestyle and more self-sustaining.
Posted by evgen (Member # 14118) on :
Well, now the question is whether Bionic 880 is organic or a junk, full of artificial frequencies and preservatives. LOL. [lol]
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Hey Scott, I though you drank Diet Coke so often, the first thing in my mind was: how the hell this guy spends so much money in treating lyme and still drink stuff with aspartame?

I'm glad to know that was not what you do daily!! Sorry for my comment, then! I just had that flash in my mind that bad eating habits could have been one reason for people not getting better from chronic diseases.

Certainly coinfections are not the main difference. Dr. K. himself got babesia and bart (if my memory is good on bart?) here in Europe, besides his borrelia. And that was a long time ago.

I agree too, everyone is different, but I do think there are some common things like excess of bad fried fats, artificial colorants, artificial flavorings, artificial conservants, etc being bad for any person or animal...

Thanks for explaining what you meant by the Bionic not being a 'miracle'. But I still feel it is! Borrelia for me is not my main issue now, but EVERY TIME it comes back, IT MAKES MY LIFE HELL. [Mad]

So for me, only getting rid of the devil cycle of borrelia revival would be a miracle. Because so far, there's no other SINGLE treatment that that is able to do that.

I am at the point that most lyme sufferers want to achieve: remission. And I'm not happy with it, because when borrelia comes back, is as though it never left me, the spiralling downwards is so fast:

- multiple FOOD ALLERGIES, GI parasitism, viral infections, brain fog, GI problems, articulation pains, muscle pains, tinnitus, blurred eyes, fatigue, everything comes back and fast.

I do hope borrelia doesn't show up again for most of you guys, or if it shows, that it goes back to dormant with one or few sessions with the Bionic. If it doesn't come back for 6 months, this is already fantastic.

During lyme, I couldn't eat wheat, no milk derivates, not most of fruits, most grains, no sugar, even quite a lot of veggies caused me allergies. Lyme goes out, I can eat virtually everything again almost from next day when lyme goes dormant.

I see a clear relation between active borrelia and food allergies in my case. For me, the relation cause-effect is cristal clear. It happened so many times I can't doubt it (in my case).

Now I eat everything (except for a couple of fruits-veggies-cheese that still test allergic).

I agree that our problems are not only borrelia. But borrelia is a damm hard problem to erradicate, and it IS ONE OF OUR MAIN PROBLEMS.

So nothing changes my idea that this Bionic, if it works to put it to dormant forever (or eliminate it forever) is a wonder treatment.

I'm SURE I'll have LOADS of things to treat after borrelia. Who won't?

After all these tuberculosis and pneumonia nosodes testing one after another, now mucor racemosus again, aspergillus niger again, and so on, I know my war to be heatlhy won't end with borrelia.

But don't say it's not a miracle treatment, because when I think of people like the lady that just died from heart problems, I mean, this Bionic could have saved her.

I had a few heart symptoms, and I also feared for my life. So many other people here in this forum are in the same boat from this woman. Others with the brain totally being eaten alive.

Maybe not only from borrelia, but believe me, bartonella without borrelia is soooo much easier to deal with. My daugther caught bart twice, once with borrelia, another without. With borrelia, her whole treatment was a hell, it lasted 5 months of pure hell, bartonella was testing until the end togehter with borrelia.

Second bite, without borrelia, her bart disappeared with light homeopathics (like Apisinum or so) and the KMT a couple of times in a matter of few days.

Third bite again, without borrelia, the treatment was difficult because she caught TBE, but if she had caught borrelia, I believe she was not going to have left without permanent neurological damages. She left this strong viral infection without permanent problems.

Borrelia complicates the life and treatment to a scale of 10, in my experience. Without borrelia, we are still in the world of normal people treating diseases normally. And not needing to bomb all over and still feeling our healths are escaping through our fingers.

I think it is a bit like cancer treatment. When the cancer is cut off, chemo or radiotherapy done, do you think the patient gets healthy after?

No way. The cause of cancer is not eliminated like that, but some patients have the chance to survive, at least, a bit longer, or for many years still. The guy that escaped cancer cannot be considered healthy after these 'normal' treatments, but so what?

When the cancer is there already, something radical has to be done, or your life may be lost forever. The knife is one alternative, then the 'bombings' another (chemio-radio), but if he wants to be really healthy, he'll have to change his lifestyle, do extensive detox, treat the innumerous pathogens that cause invisible sickeness, parasites,etc, EXACTLY LIKE a lyme patient.

If the Bionic does what is said to do, eliminate borrelia, I see it like a 'cancer' treatment, the radical treatment of knife-bombing. And it can save lives!

Of course this is too early to tell. We have to see how you guys will do in 6 months, 1 year and so on. I live close to dr. W. that for me I'm not betting all my economies on that.

I know what borrelia does to me when it comes. I know it in a cause-effect relation, as I said above. At least, I believe I know, because of energetic tests, all those symptoms appearing suddenly point borrelia. And I don't have anymore tick born coinfections to treat for quite some time. Even bart never really came back.

I feel borrelia can take my life fast if left untreated. My fungi-candida too, but it will take a VERY long time compared to borrelia.

Many people here don't think borrelia really kills. Or if it kills, it takes long time to do. I'm NOT in that group! That is why I'm looking forward to see dr.W!
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
My good friend Leslie Wermers died of Lyme on Nov 2, 2008. So I agree with you that this is a very serious disease and we have to treat seriously as well.

I hope you find Dr. W. to bring you some answers. He is brilliant. I am so glad that I went.
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Selma, because you are already *so* intuitive and have done so much interesting good work on yourself with nosodes, herbs, and remedies, it will be very useful and interesting to me to hear your full report. Can you do a blog, too, when you're there?
Posted by rachellemarie (Member # 16419) on :
Just finished reading the book 'The Hundred Year Lie: How Food and Medicine are Destroying Your Health' by Randall Fitzgerald. VERY eye opening. A must read, not to produce fear but rather to educate so you're able to make better decisions about what you put in your body.
Posted by tdtid (Member # 10276) on :
When seeing Dr. W for the last of your sessions and he sees if you are lyme free, does he use his tool to find out what you may still be fighting?

IE, would he be able to tell you if you have viruses, co's, yeast...or whatever left or is that something one must figure out once returning to the States?

I'm understanding that getting rid of the lyme doesn't make you "all better" since we are carrying so many things with it, but in theory, I would think that by unloading the lyme, some of the other things may be easier to get rid of????????????

Also, is anyone hearing how far his new location will be from his current one and if the same guest house is still a viable option?

I'm still weighing this all out but chalking it up to a vacation in Germany so all the weight wouldn't be put on "curing lyme".

I lived in Germany two years as an Army wife, so going back has been something we have always discussed, so if you could take a vacation AND perhaps feel better, it would make a great dream and leave "hope".

Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
The new location is close to the old one. The same guest house in Dobel will be fine.

As for other directions, this is an area that Dr. W in my opinion will evolve over time. He looks for Bb, Chlamydia, and FMSE. Beyond those, he does not test for much more with the Bicom - at least not for me and others I have talked with.

Several of us purchased nosodes of things we "thought" were issues for us and he was willing to test us for those items.

In 3 short weeks, it is hard for him to do more than the Borrelia and so it is limited to that for the most part.

He has a device which I have seen him use on a couple of people that did not feel that they had improved much. It apparently can get into other potential causes and infections.
Posted by rachellemarie (Member # 16419) on :

So in getting the nosodes for Epstein Barr, HHV-6 etc, are you fairly confident that you can rid yourself of these too using the bionic 880 and these nosodes, or is it strictly "experimental" at this time?

Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
The photons are reported to work the same for other infections. That's all I can say at this point.

I think that the treatment of LD with photons is experimental, at least in the US. That said, it may be one of the best tools we have but it will take time to have more clear observations myself.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Some general comments ---

With any energetic testing, the body will not reveal all layers at once or at least not all that is not well. It is like the peeling of an onion, layer by layer, you keep working on it, cleaning up, and problem areas show up that have never surfaced before. Ever peeled an onion where the bad part showed up somewhere deep inside?

There is no way to determine with a lab test or energetic testing -- this, this, this and that is all that's wrong with me. Especially with Borrelia, the treatment has to be spaced so as not to overburden the body by treatment many at the same time or too close together. It all depends on the patient's condition.

Some problems have their root in unrecognized "allergies" and can then be treated and the allergy lifted. Some are inherited. Sometimes it takes the lifting of one infection before the next one can reveal itself. That in turn will open up other avenues for healing of certain problems that were not able to heal before because these "allergies" were present. Some of these problems are emotionally based and need to be addressed on that level.

For years I have heard of Klinghardt's "Five Levels of Healing", and the longer I am at this, the more I am convinced that all, at least the first three, levels have to be addressed to regain health. Especially the third level, the mental/emotional level.

If your body is programmed to go into hyperventilation when you see a person in a blue shirt, just an example, that hyperventilation is going to hang on until you figure out why the blue shirt does this to you. Maybe the guy that forced you into something was wearing a blue shirt, or a similar experience. With energetic testing/medicine it can be very easily treated. There are many different methods that are available to address this type of problem. But one needs to be open to this. If you are not, anyone, forget what I said.

Our body is a complex "whole" with many threads woven into the fabric - One thread breaks for one reason or another, others loose their stability and may cause the whole body to give in. We all know that stress sets us back. Which stress and why?

So, no, Dr. W. nor any other doctor, I believe, can give us a laundry list of what is wrong with us. It is known that all environmental toxins, bad teeth, heavy metals, parasites, and exposure to high levels of EMF's are a problem for most. It is also known that if our physical structure is out of alignment, the energetic juices no longer flow the way they should. With any chronic disease, these have to be addressed. One by one, layer by layer, invader after invader, toxins as we find them --- and hopefully in the right order -- then I know we can be successful. I have seen it happen to people I thought would never get up again. Lyme is just a portion of the whole picture. But with borrelia being such a persistent bug hellbent on survival - it is nice to have the Bionic to do that as well as many other treatments with it.

There are other doctors in Germany who treat Lyme and go into the other problem areas, all by energetic testing of different kinds. sometimes the bb cannot be eradicated readily even with the Bionic, but it may take other treatments first to make it possible. Success is great if Bionic is available and some other areas can be covered also, not necessarily all with the Bionic. A combination of treatments including other modalities is needed. Dr. W. is not doing that probably because it cannot be accomplished in three weeks time. We all bring different problems and we all need individual approaches. This cannot be done by cooky-cutter approach.

We are now home treating as best we can with the Bionic with my own energetic testing with the tensor. But I consult with other doctors, paying for their services, and will continue in that way and hopefully make more headway. Our next approach is a big 'sanitation project' in the form of
I do not have time to translate it, but maybe you can get an idea by using Babelfish or some other translating service. I complained to AI and they told me that they will have some of the information translated by the end of November. Will see. It is a test that can easily be done via long distance, and takes nothing more than a drop of blood or a drop of saliva. It can be done before or in between other treatments.

Explore, explore. I do. Nobody does it for you - I know it takes a lot of willpower along with a few other attributes and sometimes it is hard. But I will only stop when I know that I am at the end.

Hope I made sense - I tried.

Take care.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
As for energetic tests, anyone that is inside that for long enough knows that the body only shows what it wants to treat NOW, exactly like Gigi says.

Look at my post of Sanum treatment. I discovered layer by layer what a single skin mycosis is caused by. I could NEVER imagine that my almost 2 decade old mycosis had so many pathogens involved in making me sick.

So many. Not only fungal. I am still treating another yeast now. And believe me, the symptoms change (my skin infection changes LITERALLY, one can see it day by day, week by week) it changes of places and in characteristics every time I address one of the pathogens.

Before, I only treated mycosis without energetic tests (for almost two decades) and of course, the process is so slow, and I never could see things changing so fast like they do when we use energetic tests.

One pathogen causes skin fever, other swelling, other blisters, other ulcer-like stuff extremely painful, other just non-painful pimples, others when dying get purple to black colored, etc... Only one or two itch, like a mycosis. The rest don't.

Once one problem is dealt with, another comes up. And again, and again. Like pealing the onion. I am now dealing with muscle pains I had during CHILDHOOD, every time I caught a cold (which was rare). I'm treating toxins from tuberculosis, pneumonia, influenza etc...

When borrelia comes back, my body doesn't want anything else to be treated. Only borrelia tests, so only now I am able to address these other problems that are certainly pre-lyme problems. Just because now borrelia is not testing.

I'm again thankful to lyme disease, for having forced me to learn these energetic tests. No one ever could have convinced me my skin mycosis could have as causes a mix of 8 different pathogens, if not more (I'm not done yet) if I hadn't got lyme and seen this awful ballet of pathogens- parasites - virus - toxins. No one. It looks so impossible.

Lyme did teach me nothing is impossible! [Big Grin]

During lyme, my candida was a minor issue. I am still testing things on and off, daily, and only as Gigi says, some things I never tested before start to test suddenly, then I take it and it goes like this.

People are asking me what nosodes to buy to treat coinfections from lyme. Gosh, I have no idea! I guess you gotta go to a practioner who got loads of testing nosodes and test these. An ART guy can do it or other energetic test will do it too.

That's what I did and still do when I need help.

then you got to find which nosodes to treat (which dilutions, which potency). But ingesting, the nosodes will test very different than if treating with the Bionic, I'm sure. The potency and dilutions are VERY PROBABLY NOT the same.

No one would ever INGEST a D2 borrelia nosode, but dr. W. is using these low dilutions with the Bionic, so it must work this way.

So after finding the exact pathogens or problems, the second problem is to find what are the homeopathic potencis-dilutions that will combine with the Bionic to get treated.

It's just a guess though, but that's what I would do if I still had coinfections...
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
So after finding the exact pathogens or problems, the second problem is to find what are the homeopathic potencis-dilutions that will combine with the Bionic to get treated.

When treating with Bionic,
Pathogen finding, yes. Re potencies:
The body will take what it needs - or the photons will take what they want - there is no need to problemsolve. You just need to be sure to make the complete nosode available.

Take care.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Selma -- you hit exactly why I want to get the same biotensor GiGi has. Going to see your practioner is like going to the library. I know my practioner has all the sanum remedies. I can take my biotensor and voila, I go through his sanum vials and pathogen library very quickly. I can also go to his array of supplements and test against them. It means I don't have to take his time testing and he doesn't have to take my money. [lol]

In the mean time, I'm going to see if my lyme support group can start collecting fragments of objects to create a library of substances. It may take a while, but I think that is a good direction to take. Such as what brand of whey are the best, or what are the best magnesium to take, mangosteen, noni, acai, goji, cat's claw, semento, solidago, herbs, etc... The support group seems to be receptive to the idea. So we'll see! [Cool]

I also think there is a very cheap way to collect nosodes, but I'll keep quiet about it. I'm guessing GiGi and Selma know exactly what I mean. [Wink]
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Thanks Gigi for the idea. It looks EASY if one has only to use a testing nosode to treat coinfections with the Bionic.

I guess with borrelia, it is different or more complicated, that's why dr. W. used the different homeopathic dilutions? Or possibly, using these live bacteries + different homeopathic dilutions would mean faster treatment?

How about heavy metals, only testing nosodes then would be fine? If yes, this looks very EASY!!!


Bob, this is a great idea, to do a big 'library' accessible to all. My practioners usually let me test too, using 'their' library. But of course, I have to pay for the consultation.

Yesterday, I went to a Chinese pharmacy, and the guy let me test quite a lot of his tinctures (one for the liver tested excellent). The pharmacy is good because they keep everything in glass containers, and glass is wonderful for tests!

A question for biotensor users: have you tried testing only on the NAME of the pathogens, without proper nosodes or slides?

I wonder how precise this name testing would be...

Another question is concerning supplements that come in THICK plastic containers. Can you test these while in the shop?

When opening the container, does it still test THE same as before opening?

Thanks again,
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Selma -- I can test any kind of container with mine, doesn't matter if it is glass or plastic. If there is something in it my body wants or doesn't it will resonate with the tensor. Doesn't matter and it doesn't matter if it's in the container or i have the substance in my hand, tests the same. This has been my experience!
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Yes, I don't have to touch anything either, but I have more difficulty to have consistent results with very well sealed plastic bottles. Thinner packages let my muscle tests feel immediately, and I'm pretty sure it works through glasses.

But I had many doubts about plastic containers. I usually do muscle tests in shops because it's by far the fastest test for me.

So you are convinced that totally sealed containers don't influence your reading with the biotensor?

I wonder about reading pure names of pathogens then, how the biotensor would react (in relation to testing with nosodes OR slides).

Of course, once you RETEST again with a real nosode or slides, the name testing will CHANGE to RECORRECT itself.

But I would like to know when one tests names ONLY, then do the nosode test to confirm AFTER, if you get the same response.

Posted by AndrewInCA (Member # 2010) on :
Another question about people's experience with testing - does the quantity of the item you are holding influence the result?

For instance, if you are testing a bottle full of the supplement (say 100 tablets) vs. 3 tablets. Do you get different results when asking whether the item is beneficial or not?

My previous muscle tester used to have this issue come up.

Selma, with him we sometimes used names instead of the substance and got positive results. Although we didn't like to rely on that too often.
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
Usually, it is not an issue though with some products you will find that testing a daily or single dose gives a different answer - the entire bottle may be too much. It doesn't happen too often, but the muscle tester has to get a feel for the results and know when to check more detailed if they are testing bottles. Ideally, you test what would be a dose or a daily dose and not the entire bottle, but some people do it that way.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Andrew, thanks. Exactly what I feel. Not very trustable, but just gives us an idea...

I'm testing names now WHEN I have something concrete besides the name, like a mix of homeopathic pathogens in a remedy and/or a mix of pathogen frequencies in a vial. I'm getting clearer responses this way (testing the name but with a support of a 'physical' imprint, even if mixed with others).

The best would be to have individual nosodes though to confirm my findings, but the amount of nosodes one has to have in a library is amazingly high, that's why I'm now trying these short cuts...

I guess Klebsiella pneumonia that tests activated now for me is right. And I didn't have its nosodes, but many homeopathics with it inside plus the KMT frequencies.

I wonder how these Klebs pneumonia nosodes and antigens will test combined the Bionic. If I'm on any treatment at the moment I go see dr. W., I'll try to test them (or ask dr. W. to test them for me...). It would be interesting, I'm sure.

Specially for mucor racemosus and aspergillus niger that are the 'borrelia' of fungi-yeast (because they are the last to disappear according to Sanum, a bit like borrelia in a way).


Scott is right concerning amounts. I think it depends on how the phrase/ question is raised.

I do the order, usually:
- "I need this" (no matter which amount). If yes, then

- "one is enough" (I let only one pill or one drop in front of me)

- if not, then go adding on and until I find out.

It also changes in the way you take it, for instance, my lyme doctor asked if I needed essential oils from Farah. Answer 'no'. I told him, but I tested 'yes, and it's to rub on my skin'.

He said, 'oh, sorry, I thought you wanted to ingest it'. He re-tested again thinking about rubbing it and it was 'yes'.

These oils never tested good to ingest for me, waaay too strong.

Another thing to be careful is on the timing. Many homeopathics won't test if you just ate or took something with a strong taste.

And also, if you take homeopathics, it will take about 5-10 minutes for anything else to test, even food or water may not test as being possible to take (because it probably 'cancels' the effect of homeopathy).

It also happens with the combination of herbs and supplements, many will test good, but if you put them together, they will test bad. So you need to take these separate.

^Guys, I'm on Rechtsregulat again. Now rubbing on my skin. Recths tests marvelous for skin and GI, and for mucor racemosus (for aspergillus is not testing though).

I just did though a D1 dilution with it. It is TESTING THE SAME (priority test, I mean). For rubbing and ingesting.

I'll get on my tests, but if pure Rechts and my D1 dilution test the same for the next months to come, I'll have 10 bottles of Recht for the price of one. Even more, because one needs to take much less (drops) of the D1 dilution each time, while normally, my body asks 10-15 ml of Rechts a day. I just have to find a way to preserve them.

I am still not sure what I am doing, because these are live microorganisms and enzymes, not homeopathy, but I swear they are testing the same. I needed to succuss it more than usual (about 100 times though, for it to test the same though).

But I do wonder if the water is not now imprinted with the enzymatic and good microorganisms and my body 'thinks' they are the same (or similar) to the original enzymes - pathogens.

I wonder if one couldn't do that with everything else, including mangosteen juice or whatever supplements!

Very bad for businesses, but for sick guys on limited budget, it could be miraculous. Just an idea for some of you guys doing energetic tests.

Please send me PMs in case they test the same (and if you feel the effect is the same). Or not. The only difference so far, is that it tests like homeopathy (not like a supplement) so I can't eat for about 10 minutes after intake.

Posted by hcconn22 (Member # 5263) on :
It would be really great to have a Bionic 880 group started on Lyme Friends. We can have lots of discussion and people can join.

Come sign up at, free, just started up by a bunch of us here to have a safe, fun social networking site...and start a Bionic 880 group!

Then while we are hanging out over there we can keep updated as well.
Posted by Looking (Member # 13600) on :
Is this a joke, h-con?

The posts I remember of yours were bashing the Bionic 880 [confused] .

Or maybe this group is for ridiculing the Bionic 880? Just wondering.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Since there are only about 12 -15 of us who have gone over, it would be a small group. We are all available here for answering questions. Most of us scan this thread periodically.
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
hey carla,
just read your blog update. good stuff!
i have a call with j.f. on monday, during which i am letting him know i am planning my january trip to see dr w.

he wanted me to start on bicillin, as i have had an increase in symptoms.

i'm gonna pm you with a few q's if that is ok..
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Hey, John, your mailbox is full. [Smile] You can also find me at LymeLight. [Smile]
Posted by Looking (Member # 13600) on :
Just wanted to add my thanks to all who have gone to Germany and are sharing their experiences with the Bionic 880. Very interesting and very nice of you to take the time to update us on how you are doing!

I will be checking regularly to see if you all continue to improve. I am impressed by your honest evaluations of the treatment. Please keep us up-to-date -- good, bad or indifferent.
Posted by hcconn22 (Member # 5263) on :
No Looking,not a joke at all. Just really finding this new networking site to be very helpful,and we are establishing groups on different topics. Thought this would be a good one.

12-15 people would be a great group. It wouldn't replace this thread, just would add another source of sharing info when on It is a different type of forum, and we are happy to see a variety of topics there.

Just because I am skeptical about the Bionic doesn't mean I don't have an opne mind. We have 130 members over there who don't all come here, and might be interested in this as well as other things.
Posted by jl123 (Member # 15594) on :
I wonder how getting/feeling better with the Bionic 880 differs from those (whatever% this may be)
get/feel better with Abx and/or herbs?

I wonder if someone who did get better on abx/herbs would fare if they had only used the bionic.

Yes I obviously know there are no answers to these questions. But this is where I am at. JL
Posted by liesandmorelies (Member # 15323) on :

I have wondered the same exact thing.

I thought I had read that doing abx for too long a period makes it harder to treat with the Bionic 880, but it's still treatable.

I am also curious to know what the percentages of ppl who use abx vs bionic get better.

This will be interesting to see going forward.

Posted by lymeloco (Member # 7192) on :
Don't you believe that our llmd's would suggest this treatment? I lived in Germany for a year and nobody ever talked about this treatment, but yet that was many years ago and possibly maybe I got this freaking disease then!!! Your llmd here will know what's best for you.

Don't believe everything you read or hear!!! Talk to you DOCTOR!!!
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
The LLMD's here are just now starting to hear about it. My PA asked for information on it since I'm not on any meds or herbs.

GiGi heard about it from a friend in Germany, went, then introduced us to the protocol. It's new to us Americans. Many years ago? Well, the machine has only been in use for about 8 years.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
An LLMD was talking about it at the National Capitol Lyme support group meeting. Dr. S. mentioned as a new form of treatment now being looked into here. All new forms of healing need time to germinate in the medical profession.

I wasn't at the meeting but was told about it.
Posted by Ocean (Member # 3496) on :
I asked my LLMD about during my phone appointment last month. He said that he thinks it may certainly be worthwhile, but in his opinion, the bacterial load needs to be reduced before using it. He said that he had a patient there at the time and another who was going. I think one of the memebers here who went was the one that was going.

I plan to ask him again at my next appointment if he has changed his mind.

Take care,
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
I do not feel many LLMDs really know about the Bionic 880 yet and the ones who do may not know enough about it yet to recommend it. Treatment in the USA with it is just starting.

I went to see a very good LL naturopath recently with a very open mind. He works along other well respected LLMDs and he had never heard about it until I brought the subject up. He was open to me using the Bionic 880 for treatment. He asked me to please report back after treatment.

I spoke to a local Austrian MD/homeopath/chiropractor the other day and she goes to Germany yearly and she has never heard of it before either. She is very cutting edge and usually up on many new alternative treatments.

After I told her about the Bionic 880 she immediately went to their website to read more about it. She is planning to read more about it this weekend and then investigate it even more when she has some time after the first of the year because she is very busy with work at the moment and she is going to Austria for Christmas.

I heard that one LLMD is telling some people to get their lyme or coinfection load down more before going to Germany.

Gigi and others who have already had treatment does that sound right to you because I would think one does not need to do that first and more antibiotics before treatment are not going to help with Bionic treatment?

If people who have treated already with the Bionic 880 could please comment on this I think it might clarify some things because this LLMD has made his comment to more than one person. I respect this LLMD but I think he may be slightly misinformed about what he is saying in regards to the Bionic 880. It would be good if this could be clarified for people wondering about doing Bionic 880 treatment.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Experience has shown the doctor who works with the Bionic that people who have previously been on abx have a harder time clearing the Lyme.

My experience showed that my Lyme load was very high despite 20 months of abx.

I don't think we really know the answer for sure.
Posted by liesandmorelies (Member # 15323) on :
I believe that people will tell their LLMD's as they come back from Germany about their experiences with the Bionic 880.

I believe Mojoey already did tell his LLMD that he was going to Germany and was going to use the Bionic treatment. I could be wrong, but I thought that I had read that he was going to tell his LLMD everything about it.

This is great if it is true. The more that our doctors know of alternative treatments, the more options that we will have.

I love my LLMD and I would definitely tell him if I ever planned on using this treatment.

I really appreciate all the people who have gone over who haved shared their experiences. That's what this board is all about. Please keep updating us all. [Smile]

Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
elizabeth--that is correct. i just got back from germany and i'll be lining up the doc appts to tell em all abuot the Bionic. And lemme tell you, it wasn't just the LLMDs that were anxious to hear how I did. I have a non-LLMD doc in LA that is knowledge about and very interested in lyme but doesn't trust available treatments enough to become a LLMD. He told me that if the bionic machine worked for me, he would buy it.

As for lowering bacterial loads first, I wouldn't buy that for one second. If we dno't take the antibiotics that are right for us, we only end up increasing endotoxins & sulfa residue in our bodies and give our detox pathways more work to do. If I could go back, I would have started with the bionic instead of going through 3 months of hell with antibiotics.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Thank you for clarifying that for all of us! I was hoping you would shed some light on the subject.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Waiting to reduce the load?????? That makes no sense to me whatsoever. These bugs multiply like rabbits. Adding more toxins with abx and pain pills and sleeping pills makes no sense either.

The Bionic treatment can approach the situation very slowly and very gently, depending on the total toxic load of a patient. If energetically tested, treatments can start out with a fraction of the power and is easily controlled to avoid unpleasant reactions.

The Bionic is definitely a positive for the patient, but a negative on the doctor's patient load. I am comparing the many many thousands we spend on detoxing heavy metals --- the Bionic does it in 2-3 treatments, within a few days. I don't even want to think of the bigger numbers we spent treating the infections!!!!!!!

I just finished treating my husband for various fungal and mold infections for a few days. Tiny sugar globuli nosodes in a glass vial stuck to his belly of all the different fungi and mold one can think of --- ! We had battled these, especially on his arms, for years. They are gone. It took less than a handful of treatments lasting around a half hour each.

There hasn't been anything better than the Bionic880- since I came down with Lyme in 1996.
Not only for Lyme - because we have barely started to discover its value for many other problems.

Take care.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Thank you Gigi. Your reply makes perfect sense to me.
Posted by clairenotes (Member # 10392) on :
Very encouraging news about success with metals, Gigi. Hope to hear more reports on this as well.

Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
I have discussed with a couple of my Lyme-treating practitioners as well and they are all optimistic and watching now to see how I continue to do with it over the next few months.
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
are you going to keep your blog updated with progress notes and the like?
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
The bionic 880 and lyme is a specialty of Dr. W.'s but it is far more then just a treatment for lyme. Anyone who has chronic symptoms could benefit from the 880. So it goes for MS, cfids, parkinson's, and a great number of others. So when we view which practioners should become knowledgeable about it, we are only scratching the surface.

The problem, there may not be enough money in it for the doctors.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
There may not be enough money in it for most doctors but some doctors still are looking to use what works best for their patients rather then just how to make more money. Of course many doctors might not think this way. Dr. W. does seem to have an endless supply of patients with Lyme wanting to try this protocol so who knows it may be profitable for a LLMD to purchase the machine.

If it works and so far it appears to be something that can and does really help people then I would think some alternative doctors will be incorporating it into their practice.

The Austrian MD I spoke with the other day said that $7,000. is very reasonable for a German machine. She seemed interested she treats people with all kinds of medical issues (not lyme related) and I know my acupuncturist who has Lyme himself wants to see a machine in person here in the Bay Area and then decide if he wants to purchase one for his practice.

That fact that it helps people I think more doctors will be using the Bionic 880 in the future.
Posted by GraceT (Member # 16558) on :
It will be interesting to find out how I respond to the Bionic 880 treatments this coming February.

My abx was ONLY 30 days of doxicycline in June of this year. All else has been holistic and Rife and LightWorks (so far).

The 880 probe that I experienced that tremendous pain turned out to be my type of herx, and lasted around two weeks. After it was over my trembling and hand tremors were gone!!!! I know if I don't keep after these bugs this prob. could return.

NeuroBb seems to be what I am dealing with, plus heavy metals. This may be naive of me, but it seems that I could feel the metals in my head--painful spots which moved around on my skull. I had headaches for three to four weeks, which are gone finally.

I am tempted to ask for that treatment again, only I will wait until February so I don't mess anything up.

Has anyone used Suppository type detox products before?

Thought I would give this a try. Kindest Regards, Grace
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Detoxamin seems to be effective for some lead/Pb, but not for the different forms of mercury (hg1,2,3) and not for some of the other toxic metals. And I am not even sure about the lead, because my husband still was toxic with it after many Detoxamin suppositories.

Treated with Bionic880, is quite simple and quick, as I posted before.

Take care.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Detoxamin was good for me for lead treatment.
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
I may post more on the blog if something more clear is worth posting. It will take several months to work through the benefits of the device.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
I agree with mOjoey here. If I had it to do over I would have gone to Germany first and skipped the 5 months of antibiotics. I probably would have healthier intestines and not have to had deal with yeast.

Just my opinion.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Oh yes - and my LLND know all about the bionic880 from me and he is interested. Mostly he's interested in how I am after the 3 month mark. Two down, one to go.

Another of his patients is headed to Germany in January so I imagine he will get even more interested.
Posted by m0joey (Member # 13494) on :
Just for the record, a total of 3 of my practitioners said they would buy the machine if I got good results from it.
Posted by Angelica (Member # 15601) on :
Joey that is very cool news! I hope to see the Bionic 880 more available in the USA. I still want to go to Germany because I want the intuition and years of experience that Dr. W. can offer.

Hopefully soon many healthcare people in the USA will be up to speed on how to treat with the Bionic 880.

I am really hoping my Austrian MD/ homeopath/chiropractor gets a machine to treat her patients with. She already uses a biotensor and I think she would be perfect for treating patients if she had a LLMD to work with who could do the IV's. If we were in Austria she could do the IVs but is not licensed here to do them.

She had hoped to become an MD here. She took a test as part of the process and they lost her records which did make her a happy camper.
Posted by Cooper (Member # 15968) on :
Gigi, please...

I guess this is sort of on topic and off...

I will be heading to Germany this year. So its valid. I broke a filling and need to get it fixed. What are some material that are bio neutral I read somewhere in this thread but cant find it. I have composites now... no I don't want to add a new dimension of complexity re Lyme issues. Thanx
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Cooper, if you have composites now and they are working well for you, how about composites?

Or, maybe you can test energetically which material works best for you.
Posted by GraceT (Member # 16558) on :
Hi Cooper, Tooth #19 will be replaced with a rubber-like substance and a porcelain overlay. Wish I could remember what it was called... Grace

This talks about restorative materials, but I did not see the material my dentist mentioned. I will ask him in the morning.
Really good website explaining fillings - with photos.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Cooper - there is a very good biological dentist in MA. They have a doctor come up once a month who has a testing device similar to the bicom2000. He tests for hundreds of materials to see if they are compatible with your body.

They had me do this prior to coming up with a complete dental plan for me. I really appreciate the fact that they do this because some of the composites being used can be toxic, although not as bad as amalgams!

Since everyone is so different it is good to know what can work in your own mouth [Big Grin]
Posted by lymeparfait (Member # 14268) on :
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Does anyone know if Dr. W. treats Parkinson's patients, or only Lyme patients with Parkinson's-like symptoms (like GiGi's husband)?

I was telling a friend about my upcoming trip to Germany. Her father has advanced Parkinson's and she was wondering if Bionc 880 would help him.
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
Probably depends on whether or not the person's Parkinson's is a late manifestation of Lyme. As you note, GiGi's husband was treated by Dr. W.
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
I will definitely ask Dr. W. about Parkinson's Disease when I see him in 1.5 months. I was hoping GiGi might know...

My friend is very concerned for her father. She does wonder if he could have Lyme -he worked outdoors all his life, was a keen hunter etc. Of course, his neurologist never bothered to test for it.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Ask your friend to have him energetically tested for lyme. It seems likely to be the most effective way to get the information quickly before you make your trip.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
To those wondering about replacement fillings - the material I tested the best for was something from Germany (figures [Wink] ) that has glass in it!

So now I have that instead of amalgams.

Sorry, guess this doesn't have much to do with the bionic.
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
This thread has gotten quiet lately...

Who is going over to Germany soon? My 1st appt. is Jan. 22 and I return home Feb. 13.
Posted by ctlyme (Member # 9022) on :
I agree Zombie. I think some people have spring appointments, so not much to talk about.

I like hearing updates however.

Steel, Willow, MoJoey , Six ,Nano etc anything to report.

I keep up w/ the blogs of Mojoey,Six and betterhealthguy but would like to hear from others too.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
To Zombie - for her friend:
All I can say is that every patient Dr. K. has seen over the years who came with a Parkinson diagnosis also had Lyme Disease. However, however, however: It's never just Lyme. And Dr. K. would be the first to declare that loud and clear. In his eyes, nobody has just Lyme.

The major work for anyone with Lyme and/ or Parkinsons is a general cleanup of the body, mainly teeth, dental infections, root canals, and most of all heavy metals and the deficiencies some of these cause.

Dr. Woitzel basically addresses only Borrelia. He does not address co-infections, heavy metals, etc. I don't think he is equipped for it, nor are people there long enough to do much else besides borrelia treatment. The co-infections are basically not known in Germany, or only barely known even by the Bionic therapists. He works toward clearing the Borreliosis, but the rest must be done afterward when people return home. I think, my best guess, we are dealing with different bugs here.

We just discovered via (click on Englisch) that my husband is and has been allergic to mercury and lead and several other very damaging heavy metals, as well as a major wheat allergy and some others. Wheat allergies can cause brain cerebral irregularities. None of these allergies can be detected via ART or similar energetic testing - Allergie-Immun is the only method that finds it and treats it in a very simple way.

If a person is allergic to a toxic metal, the body is not able to release it unless it gets the corrected information to do so. It is only so sad that so many who could help mankind remain ignorant. And worse, there are still some among us who think toxic metals don't stick and don't hurt anyone. WOW - I got news for them!

Again, I must have posted this same sentence several thousand times on this board --- IT IS NEVER Just LYME.

Right now we are treating any possible damage caused by Lyme with the Bionic with the hel of many different brain and nerve nosodes.

My husband is totally clear of any co-infections. They are all gone - gone. All viral infections are gone. Parasites are very easy to treat with the Bionic.

We are waiting for the drops from Allergie-Immun to treat the allergies, which in essence is merely supplying the body with the proper information, reacting to the good instead of the bad. I have discovered through my own testing that he was allergic to Bartonella. I treated it in a way I learned from Dr. K. and Bartonella is gone. So is Babesia. Ditto mycoplasma, Distemper. The thing we hear over and over as the auto-immun problem. Mucor I have not been able to clear and it showed up as an allergy on the Allergie-Immun test. So that problem will be corrected with simple drops imprinted with the information the body has lost. It is obviously a much deeper allergy. Plus some inherited allergies have been discovered.

The Bionic - what can I say? - I would not know what to do or how to do it without it!!! It is worth every penny spent and all the efforts and willpower it took for me to roll my husband over to Germany in the wheelchair.

More sometime later.

Take care.

[ 31. December 2008, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :

Will you have a blog to keep us up to date? Good luck in Germany.

Blessings. Hiker53
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Originally posted by zombie_mummy:
This thread has gotten quiet lately...

Who is going over to Germany soon? My 1st appt. is Jan. 22 and I return home Feb. 13.


I'll update my blog soon. I was in Rome for 12 days over Christmas and did great, even though I was away from my Bionic 880 .... just a minor flare coinciding with menstruation, but other than that, I could do what everyone else could do. [Smile]
Posted by wiserforit2 (Member # 18286) on :
It is so exciting to read about all the amazing improvements folks are experiencing from the 880. I would love to experience it myself, but it will take me time to save up for the trip.

As I read the posts and blogs of people who bought the machine, they seem to be getting better and better.

My question is this: for those who experienced the wonderful three weeks of treatment, what happens if you can't afford to buy the 880 and treat afterwards? What do you do?

Thanks in advance for any replies,

Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
i start treatments on jan 26th

i won't be doing a blog, though, sorry- i actually am going to avoid the computer as much as i can .
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
I've been wondering how so many of you can afford to go there, buy the machine, etc. when most people are too ill to work and apparently bring in no income. It seems like many on this board have the means to try every available treatment irregardless of cost. After being off work for 2+ years, that's amazing. Must be some big piggybanks!! lol.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Wow Six... ROme!!! That is awesome! Look at you go [Smile]

I always have a flare around my cycle.. It hasn't been as bad though since starting on herbs, juicing, etc.. I am using the Lightworks right now. I know it's not the Bionic but it is all I can do right now until I can hopefully (sending out that intention) get the moola to go to Germany. I guess my biggest worry is getting the Co-infections, AND how do we REALLY know that the infection is gone??????

Peace and Happy New Year!
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
credit cards
payment from disability

but not really even getting by...germany is less risky and basically the same cost as abx/etc with my worth a shot.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I was a stay at home mom when I got sick, so I had no income before. Fortunately, hubby's business has been great the past couple years so I could afford treatment.

My dad actually gave me the money for Germany though. That was a little out of our reach. If he hadn't covered it, we would have taken out a second mortgage to pay for it. I knew in my heart (and from what research I could do) that it would work.

I truly feel the Lyme is gone. I have had no Lyme symptoms, the symptoms I was having in Rome were babs and when I drank tonic water, they went away.

I came home with the flu (fun on the airplane), and have had no Lyme flare. It did hit me a bit harder than everyone else, I was down three days, for everyone else, it was a 24 hour bug. But no Lyme flare.
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
GiGi- Thanks for the Lyme + Parkinsons info. I have passed it on to my friend. How is your husband doing these days? Have all his "Parkinsons"-like symptoms disappeared now and is he still walking well?

Hiker53- I will try my best to set up a blog. I have trouble with my hands and typing is very hard for me but I will do my very best to update everyone. I am going over with my parents so they may be able to assist me with typing.

Seekhelp- My awesome parents are accompanying me and are paying for the whole thing. I would never be able to afford it otherwise. If I decide to buy a machine, I will be doing so with credit. I AM NOT RICH, JUST DESPERATE!!!

[ 31. December 2008, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: zombie_mummy ]
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Originally posted by nyjohn:
i start treatments on jan 26th

i won't be doing a blog, though, sorry- i actually am going to avoid the computer as much as i can .

Looking forward to meeting you then, John! I will also be staying at Gaestehaus Klein in Dobel. If I do set up a blog for my trip, perhaps I can report on your progress as well?
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Well, I have been home from Germany for almost 4 months now. I am still lyme free and still do not test for co-infections but will handle whatever comes up - when and if it does.

I have had all my amalgams removed as well as 3 root canals.
It has been a busy few months.

I am also on board with the allergie-immun. I have sent of my blood and am excited to receive the remedy. Thanks Gigi, another great find.

I am busy dealing with metals, yeast, parasites and who knows what else. One thing at a time. The bionic knocked out the yeast when I was in Germany but in all of my excitement of feeling good - I latched on to too much wheat. Lesson learned.

I feel well, not lymie at all and now at least know I have a path set out ahead of me. Getting rid of the lyme was huge but there is so much more to do.

My energy is not off the charts as it was when I first returned but I WAY overdid it and am trying to learn I can't make up for 8 years in a few months.

Many issues did not have the space to make themselves known until after being treated in Germany. The Bionic is a blessing and I believe the allergie-immun will be also.

I'm just taking it easy, enjoying my family and looking forward to having the next "item" leave.

Whoever mentioned the "big purse" - none here. I would have sold everything in my house and begged in the street (in hindsight) to get to Germany. If you want it badly enough, you make it happen. Yes, you do.

My trip was paid for by my loving son who was afraid he would lose his Mom but I would have gotten there somehow regardless.

I try to pick and choose wisely as I do NOT have unlimited funds.
The teeth were an absolute necessity and I feel the Allergie-Immun is a wise investment as well. I could throw away enough useless supplements to equal the cost of that.

The biontensor makes it much, much easier to know what to take and when to take it.

I guess that sums up how I am doing - I was able to shovel snow for 9 hours straight a couple of weeks ago! Looks like I'll be doing more of that today.

Funny how my husband has been on business in Bermuda and Mexico for both of the major storms we have had here [Roll Eyes]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Toodie, take the time and make the effort to call Allergie-Immun. All info for that is on their website. I get up at 3 AM to call them to have my questions answered. I am not willing to spend all this time explaining. There is a bunch that I do not understand yet. But the results is what I care about.

For the rest of your questions, if you do a search here, you will find numerous discussions on energetic testing. This is also not something that can be explained in a few minutes.

Sorry, you will have to do some of your own homework. I would merely be repeating some of my old messages.

Take care and good luck.
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Originally posted by hiker53:

Will you have a blog to keep us up to date? Good luck in Germany.

Blessings. Hiker53

I just set one up. I haven't added much to it, but watch this space:
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Does the Bionic also clear the Cyst/CWD forms of Lyme???

Thank you!
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :

Here's a definition:

The term "energetic testing" is an umbrella-like term to describe various techniques that interpret the body's various signals-muscle strength, arm and leg lengths, acupressure points and energy fields-in order to arrive at a more precise diagnosis and effective treatment. These methods have the benefit of directly testing a patient's body in present time, as opposed to attempting to interpret often days, weeks, or monthsolder radiographs and laboratory tests. "In vivo"93 energetic testing can greatly augment these static tests, as well as the standard diagnostic office procedures (a thorough history and exam), thereby helping the doctor or practitioner arrive at a more specific and personalized treatment. For example, through effective energetic testing measurements, it can be determined exactly which nutritional supplements a patient needs-in what particular form and which brand, how many per day, what time of day (breakfast, lunch, dinner or between meals) and for how long. In other cases, energetic testing can help in determining important dental referrals-when it's appropriate to remove mercury amalgam fillings, whether to replace a suspected toxic crown and when to suggest the need for cavitation surgery.

93 As opposed to in vitro at means "within a glass or observable in a test tube," in vivo means "within the living body."
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by sixgoofykids:
I'll update my blog soon. I was in Rome for 12 days over Christmas and did great, even though I was away from my Bionic 880 .... just a minor flare coinciding with menstruation, but other than that, I could do what everyone else could do. [Smile] /QUOTE]

How is your daughter doing, has she responded well to you treating her with the Bionic 880?
Posted by pab (Member # 904) on :
Originally posted by sixgoofykids:
Originally posted by zombie_mummy:
This thread has gotten quiet lately...

Who is going over to Germany soon? My 1st appt. is Jan. 22 and I return home Feb. 13.


I'll update my blog soon. I was in Rome for 12 days over Christmas and did great, even though I was away from my Bionic 880 .... just a minor flare coinciding with menstruation, but other than that, I could do what everyone else could do. [Smile]

Wow! Rome for 12 days and you felt great! That's a great Christmas present.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Zombie, she's doing well, but is not very good at making the time to treat twice per week. I'm going to be sure that she is more devoted to the treatments.

My other daughter has seen benefits from it. She had gotten rather sulky and just didn't look like she felt good. She's back to her old self again.

Thanks Pab. It was a great time and great to be able to keep up with everyone with no pain. The flu did hit our group, so I'm suffering with that now, but it was good to feel normal. [Smile] Hopefully in a few days I'll feel that way again. [Smile]
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
That's great to hear, Six. I am curious because, if I do bring a machine home, I would want to use it on my husband and kids. Nobody else in my family is sick with Lyme -yet- but I do worry all the time, that I passed it to my children in utero or via breastfeeding.
Posted by wiserforit2 (Member # 18286) on :
Posting again for hope of a reply. No replies from Bionic 880 users on my last post.

I'm working on saving enough for Germany.

Has everyone who has gone over purchased the Bionic 880?

For those who haven't bought one, what are you doing to treat the rest of the co's, etc.?

(Sorry if the answer to this is buried within the last 24 pages.... my brain foggy reading and vision aren't what they used to be!)

thanks in advance for answers,

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Zombie, I had suspected Lyme in my youngest daughter and she has had improvement. My Lymie daughter (the diagnosed one) was considered in remission, but she has seen improvement in her headaches. I think it's worthwhile for the reasons you give. My hubby has more energy and he never showed any Lyme symptoms.

Wiserforit, I believe everyone who has gone at least has access to a machine.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Zombie, I had suspected Lyme in my youngest daughter and she has had improvement. My Lymie daughter (the diagnosed one) was considered in remission, but she has seen improvement in her headaches. I think it's worthwhile for the reasons you give. My hubby has more energy and he never showed any Lyme symptoms.

Wiserforit, I believe everyone who has gone at least has access to a machine.
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
If you go, you almost certainly need to bring back a machine. The short 3 week treatment there is not enough to make a lasting difference and only enough to hit Borrelia and none of the other likely dozen or more key infections that are part of our total body burden.

It is really just the starting point.

The machine runs about 5800 EUR + 19% VAT tax which you can get refunded with proper proof of export at a later time.
Posted by ctlyme (Member # 9022) on :

You mentioned knowing of another person that sees your LLND going to Germany.

Has that person seen Dr W yet and does your LLND still see this as a therapy He/She will look into further?

Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Originally posted by SForsgren:

The machine runs about 5800 EUR + 19% VAT tax which you can get refunded with proper proof of export at a later time.

Yeah, that didn't happen for me. I got proper proof and mailed it at the airport. DON'T do that. I know two of us this happened to.

Now I can drive to Chicago (five hour drive), get it stamped (maybe) at the German embassy, then try again.

Whatever you do, don't mail it at the airport.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Sixgofy and Scott,

So where exactly does one go at the Stuggart airport or elsewhere to get their tax money back?
After reading the blogs I am still confused exactly where to go and I'm sure people are rushed when they get to the airport.

How much time,Sixgoofy, did you allow from the Kleins until your flight left? Thanks. Hiker53
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
ctlyme, the other person who sees the same LLND that I did is leaving for Germany very soon - a week or so I think.

I don't know if he still has any interest in this. Maybe when his next patient returns.

When I saw him shortly after I returned from Germany he seemed a little excited about my results and skeptical at the same time. Pretty normal I guess.
Posted by nyjohn (Member # 15361) on :
of course you can post my progress on your blog---
see you there!
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Hiker, We had our "letter", which the manufacturer supplied us, stamped by Customs at the Stuttgart Airport. If you depart from Frankfurt, you can do it there also. We mailed it in the envelope provided by the manufacturer and put it in the German Postal mailbox at the Stuttgart airport. We had no problem at all.
"Information" booth will tell you where the Customs Office is and where the mailbox for the German Post Office is.

If you depart early in the morning, check with the Customs office to see if they are open that early. We stayed one night near the airport because we had an early morning flight and I had to deal with a wheelchair and luggage at the same time.

The VAT tax has to be paid on any item that is sold in Germany, that is the law, unless you file this excemption. Am not sure that the Company still does it this way because some people did not return the stamped form. You may want to call or e-mail the manufacturer before you leave for Germany to find out exactly how they do it now. It's worth it = the VAT is 20%.

Take care.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I did exactly the same as GiGi, so did Willow, and neither of us got the money back.

Hiker, the Kleins say it's easier to fly into Frankfurt and take the fast train to Karlsruhe. If you go to Stuttgart, you take four trains, which we found difficult since none of us spoke German and since we had to take all our luggage.

The Kleins arranged for transport for us back to the airport (we hired a driver). I don't remember how early we left, but I do remember the driver told us how early we needed to leave.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Our invoice for the Bionic880 did not include the VAT, because we promised to and sent the excemption form at the Stuttgart Airport as instructed by the manufacturer.

That is why we did not expect a refund.

These instruments when sold to German or EU nationals must include the VAT. It is the law. The manufacturer has to pay it to the Government.

This same instruments costs some 7000plus Euros when sold to a German resident or EU people.
Foreigners do not have to pay VAT, but if you did not return the form that the manufacturer provided you for the purpose of getting it stamped at the point of exit when you leave the country, he has to pay the VAT, and you cannot expect a refund.

We paid 6400 Euros, returned the stamped form to the manufacturer when we left from Stuttgart, mailing it in the envelope provided in the German Post Office mailbox at the airport. It wasn't easy because I had to deal with a wheelchair and a husband and luggage.

The Customs Office location and mailbox location can easily be found by asking at the "Information" desk at any airport.

Got to run.

P.S. I have taken the train from Stuttgart Airport to downtown Stuttgart many times. it is one train that runs every 15-20 minutes directly into the main Railway Station downtown Stuttgart.

There you get the direct train to Pforzheim. It is one train only that runs almost every hour.
ou can easily get train schedules by googling the German Railways or Deutsche Bundesbahn train schedules. It pays to learn to read a few basic German words. It is no surprise that most Europeans forgot their English while Bush was in office! That was very obvious to me when we were there last.

[ 05. January 2009, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Originally posted by GiGi:
but if you did not return the form that the manufacturer provided you for the purpose of getting it stamped at the point of exit when you leave the country, he has to pay the VAT, and you cannot expect a refund.

Because one person did not mail back the form, now the company charges everyone the VAT tax, then when the person sends the form back to the company in the provided envelope they will send the refund.

Two of us, separately from each other, got the form stamped, put it in the mailbox at the airport, and the company said they never received it.

BTW, I spent HOURS listening to German tapes, I knew a few words. For those of you going, if you do speak another language, when you come across someone who doesn't speak English, ask them if they speak the other language you do ... Spanish came in handy for me more than once.
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
I just called and confirmed my appointment for next Thursday. I'm getting really excited/anxious!


I have a question for those who have stayed at the Klein's guesthouse: How are the kitchen facilities? Do they supply most things one would need to prepare meals? Does each unit have a fridge? I'm on a limited diet and will probably need to prepare all my food at the guesthouse.

I'm going to be in apt. 6 (ground floor). Have any of you who have already been to Germany had that apt?
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
zombie-- i am so excited for you!! WIsh I was going with you.... Best wishes and healing to you!

Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Zombie, everything you need to cook a meal is in that apartment. We lived in No. 6, cooked, baked, lived, loved, and slept in that apartment, and had a good time.

Take care.
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Thank you for your well wishes, Shandy. [Smile]

And thank you, GiGi, for letting me know about your good experience in apt. 6! That is very reassuring. It certainly looks lovely in the photos on the website.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Zombie, yes, the kitchen is well-supplied. [Smile]
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Thanks, Six. What about refrigerators/mini-fridges? Does each apt. have one? I just don't see any in the website pictures...

I currently cannot tolerate any grains at all, in addition to soy, potatoes, lactose and most sugars. I'm afraid I won't be able to sample the local cuisine like many of the others who have gone over for treatment. [Frown] That's why it is very important to me to have a good kitchen!
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Yes, there are refrigerators in the rooms. [Smile]

Sorry about not being able to sample the local cuisine. [Frown]
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
I'm going with my parents so I'll be enjoying the local cuisine vicariously through them... I know they are looking forward to sampling the lovely German beer, wine and pastries!
Posted by Julia (Member # 18779) on :
I'm new and been reading up on the Bionic and plan on going myself soon. Good luck Zombie. I'll look forward to reading your blog.
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Good luck Zombie - I have a friend staying at the Klein's now and sure you will meet her.

The apartments are great, as are the Kleins and Dobel.

Get out and see some sights when you are up for it. There are some magical towns.
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Thanks everybody. I can't believe I'll be leaving in 4 days. Everything is coming together: I just got a copy of my labs etc. from my LLMD. I'll be giving him an update when I get back.

I'm going to be using a wheelchair while I'm there (I'm only able to walk very short distances before my legs get shaky and I nearly keel over from exhaustion) so any tips on that would be helpful.

Is Dr. W.'s office wheelchair-accessible?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Has he moved yet? His old office was not accessible.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Dr. W is not moving until April, now. However, someone who was over there this fall had a wheelchair and stayed at the Kleins and saw Dr. W, so maybe they can carry you in!.

Whatever it takes to get well, right?

Posted by pab (Member # 904) on :
Good Luck!
Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
Good luck from me too!
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
zombie, there is one flight of stairs to Dr. W's office (8-10). The person there in the fall had a companion for being carried up the stairs.

There are also a couple of steps down to your apartment - not very many.

Can your Dad carry you? If not, do you think you can make it with someone under each arm?

If the Kleins are picking you up at the train, make sure they know you are bringing a wheelchair so they bring the car with more trunk space.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
The lady in the wheelchair last fall also could walk a little without it. There were times she walked up the stairs, it just took her a while. So, don't feel bad if you just take a long time to get up them. He's used to having Lyme patients. [Smile]
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
I can walk, just not so well. I still use the stairs in my home, I just go very slowly... It should be okay for me to get up to the doctor's -I just need to give myself extra time.

Lymeparfait - You've sent me 2 PMs but your mailbox is full. I'll just respond here:

We are flying into Frankfurt and then renting a car from there. Because of my mobility issues, we opted not to take the train. And yes, we are staying at the Kleins. I will probably bring the Bionic 880 back in my carry-on luggage. I don't want to risk it getting damaged in the hold. Thank you for your well-wishes. [Smile]
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Originally posted by sixgoofykids:
The lady in the wheelchair last fall also could walk a little without it. There were times she walked up the stairs, it just took her a while. So, don't feel bad if you just take a long time to get up them. He's used to having Lyme patients. [Smile]

Do you know how that lady is doing now?
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
I have yet more questions for those who've gone already.

How much can we expect to pay for the treatment? I told my Dad I thought it was around 2000USD or maybe more. Does that sound right?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Sorry, I haven't heard from her in a while. She had a lot of health issues, so Lyme wasn't all there was .... just like all of us.

That sounds about right on the price of treatment, depending on the exchange rate, of course.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
John, I sent you a couple emails and have not heard back .... maybe they're going into your junk mail folder (that happens sometimes with my email address). I can't PM you because your mailbox is full.
Posted by n.northernlights (Member # 17934) on :
I was thinking about the troubles you had with getting the VAT back.
(many of the forms posted from the letter box in the airport terminal seem to have disappeared, so people did not get their money back, and the company stopped selling the machines without tax because they did not get the forms back)

I have gotten back VAT a few times here in Europe, and it is just like it ahs been explained in this thread, you get the taxfree form stamped at the customs (but I have also gotten it stamped there where I took the goods, a police/customs /governor office), and I mailed the form back after I arrived. Got the money on my account.

I was thinking you might be safer if you take the form back with you, and get a certified copy done, and then mail the original to where it should be mailed.

Any other purchase above a minimum limit (I do not know what the minimum is) you can also get your VAT back on. If there is VAT on nosodes and homeopathics, you can get the taxes back on them too, biotensors, anything, clothes, souvenirs.

I was wondering, you woose form got lost, if you can get a new form, and show the machine to the german embassy, and they check the serial number, I do not know, and they attest you have taken it out of Germany, if it would still be possible to get the tax back.
now they need this form for their own accounting, in order not to pay tax on it themselves. It is listed in their books as sales out of the country. I mean they need it for 2008 so you would have to hurry up an d contact them to ask if they could still fit it in, and then there is the problem of who should attest the form, is it any customs station like at your airport, or the German embassy, or the local police station.
Just thinking.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Thanks for the thoughts northernlights .... I think people going now should read over them carefully!

For me, I do have another "original" receipt. HOWEVER, the nearest embassy is a five hour drive, so would require food, lodging, transportation, etc. with no guarantee of refund. In the end, I opted not to do it.

I do not think it's far fetched to think someone at the airport is making a profit off taking the forms out of the mailbox, but that is just speculation. I hate to think the problem is with the people who make the Bionic, that just makes less sense.

If I lived nearer to an embassy, I would have gone there to try to get the money back.
Posted by n.northernlights (Member # 17934) on :
I was also thinking about the distance, that it would be too far away for many.

You have a receipt, but you still need another of those forms. Plus a customs office.
Maybe a police station, or a courthouse will do? Would depend on what the accountant or accountig company of the German company can accept. E-mail them?
Where I live, I can download ours VAT return forms from the internet.

We have customs offices inland too. Maybe not so common inside the U.S. except for airports that have international arrivals or ports for ships.

Yes, maybe people should get the form stamped at the airport as usual, but not mail it from there, but from at home after making a copy...something weird might be going on at the airport.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Just an idea. I live in Switzerland, 2 hours away from Pforzheim. I get part of the VAT back when I buy something in Germany, I only pay the VAT from here (Switzerland).

I wonder if it would be possible to leave the EU from Switzerland with the Bionic, get a stamp that the machine left the EU, and then go back (theoretically without the machine) to where you bought your Bionic and get the money back directly from them?

Switzerland is less than two hours away from Stuttgart.

That's what we do on the border here. We get the customs forms from the shop where we buy stuff in Germany, fill them in, get a stamp showing the merchandise left Germany (the EU) at the border with Switzerland, then come back to the shop any time later (in a period of 6 months) and get the money back in cash from the shop itself. As I live in the border, is no trouble for me.

You guys in Pforzeheim would take only two hours to leave the EU from there. The only problem is that you'll probably have to enter again with the machine back to Germany, I mean, as your flight is probably leaving from Germany. There's usually no border control, but if there is, there can be trouble as you stamped saying the machine left Germany (and why is it getting back there again?).

I don't know if it will work, but there's a great chance it will. I cross the border at least once a week if not more, and very rarely get checked. Maybe once a year someone asks my passport? I never got my trunk checked so far. I got local plate numbers, so they know I live next to the border though.
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
up for more bionic thoughts/experiences [Smile]
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
I did not have to pay the VAT tax because I did a bank transfer. Not sure why that is different.

I have talked with someone who is over there now and it seems things have changed and even if you do a bank transfer for the machine, you now pay the tax.

Sorry I can't be of more help with that question but wanted to let you know that the situation has changed and I believe the price has also.

The person I spoke with said the 2009 price for the bionic is 6,400 euro plus the 19% tax. The base price is less than when I was there in September.
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Anyone know how Zombie-Mummy is doing?? There is nothing on her blog and she hasn't posted here... Hope she is doing well!
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
I returned from Germany 3 days ago. I was treated 6x for Borreliosis with the bionic and then Dr W. declared me to be free of Lyme.

Sorry I did not do the blog -the internet connection at the Kleins was up several flights of stairs (I have mobility issues) and I did not want to use an internet cafe due to the EMFs.

I am not yet feeling significantly better -although I am very jet-lagged right now so it's hard to tell.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Welcome home Zombie! Are you going to be continuing treatment from home? Did you have other issues besides Lyme? I know I had to treat co's. [Smile]
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Thanks Six. I purchased a machine so, yes, I will continue to treat at home.

Dr. W. also wants me to continue with ozone iv and SCENAR treatments so I'm sourcing that out right now.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Six and others who did the Bionic, how are you guys testing for the borrelia nosodes, specially the higher potencies?

I heard from someone that came back from Germany some time ago still testing for the D200...

Just curious to know if you all test negative energetically for all the borrelia nosodes and antibodies...

Zoombie mummy, welcome back!!! I hope you'll post here about your trip / progress / treatment!!
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
Welcome home Zombie-Mummy!!

Hope you see improvements soon!!! [Smile]
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
It is important for us to remember that Lyme is more than Lyme alone. Just because the photons may have dealt with Borrelia does not mean that heavy metals, viruses, coinfections, etc. are wiped clean. I feel very good about the photons and the fact that I am off ABX now for 4 months without any relapse, but I also know that there is more work to be done in other areas.

I think the words "free of Lyme" are to indicate that Borrelia itself has been addressed, but it is not the end of the game. We have so many problems by the time we become ill and the likely have regeneration/repair work that is required as well.

I believe that there is more work to be done with and after continued used of photons but I feel very optimistic about them so far.

Just my thoughts.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Glad you got the Borrelia behind you and made it back safely, Zombie.

As Scott said, free from Borrelia does not mean we are "free from Lyme" and unless anyone has no co-infections, that statement by the doctor is incorrect. I have told him so once I realized. Sadly, the co-infections are not treated by Dr. W. and I have yet to understand why. We have had to do a lot of treatments after getting home following the treatments in Germany and we are not quite home-free yet doing the Allergie Immun treatments.

As I have mentioned here before and on other threads, I was misinformed by the doctor early last year before we travelled overthere when he told and wrote me that the Bionic880 photons also "take all co-infections out" and also "take the heavy metals out". As it turns out, all of these infections, as well as others and any possible heavy metals need to be treated separately afterward.

We are now working with AI on repairing the damage done to gut (leaky gut) and to nerves, if any, and I pray that we will be successful.

Co-infections are not as common in Germany as they are here, but I now get advice from a couple of naturopaths there for our own treatments at least one of whom also will be treating co-infections once she has the proper nosodes. She happens to be the therapist who recommends to her clients to do the Allergie Immun test/therapy first because it clears out many problems and makes any other treatments easier. She tells me that this makes the overall treatments very successful.

Just want to make it clear that "free of Lyme" for most people with co-infections is not the correct statement. Free of Borrelia, that is a yes.

Take care.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Brussels, some of the treatments have to be repeated. I used the whole D series up to D200, all of them together, and treated until all cleared. For borrelia and other infections, I often use the K1000 which contains all lower potencies, and when that clears I am usually done. Rarely ever does it need more treatments. Bartonella took several treatments. I treat K1000 until it doesn't test anymore. I have a dozen other vials of Bartonella, same and other strains, and none test. Same for mold and different fungi, nothing positive any longer.

I cannot find any more infections and neither, so far, can our ART therapist.

Now we are addressing the collateral damages in various ways, degeneration nosodes and AI being some of them.

Hope you are making continued progress!

Take care.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Gigi, thanks for your clear answer. So after we clear the D200 dilution, we probably have to go to the K1000?? I never heard of such soooo high K dilutions (is the nosode coming from Brussels, Hildegard pharmacy?).

So the photons DO work with such high dilutions? Or is it only Korsakov potency that is good (because, as you said, it contains all the other previous dilutions)?

I wonder if you (or anyone here) had any experience with C or M dilutions and the Bionic.

The Germans are NOT used to employ K potencies, nor the Swiss. I find K only in Belgium and in France, but I NEVER so far heard of 1000K as normally, after 200K, the homeopaths shift to M or LM potencies....

I was just wondering as this lady still tests on and off for borrelia D200. So, for me, that means, she's NOT free of borrelia yet.

I wonder how Scott would be testing for the nosodes in higher dilutions. Or Sixgolfkids.... Or Deb. If they test negative to the D200 AND to higher dilutions now, a few months after the treatment. I'm not talking about lyme, I'm merely talking about borrelia.

it's merely a curiosity to see for how long the photon treatment could keep one in full remission from BORRLELIA.

I know for sure that I'm sick with MANY more pathogens than borrelia, as every time I get into remission, my life is still hell (one infection after the other). And probably I got loads of other problems, like the hidden allergy problem you mention, or still toxins, stuck heavy metals...

Where do you guys get the bartonella nosodes? From Desbio? I can't find them here in Europe...

I test consistently negative for dr. K's bart slide for ages, but I would like to see how I test for nosodes in different dilutions... I find the nosode testing for borrelia muuch more accurate than the borrelia slides.

Thanks again, and wishing you all good progress!!!
Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
I got back a week ago. Sorry for not giving much in the way of an update. I caught a bad cold from my kids as soon as I got home and have been laid up. I'm trying to view this as a positive sign that my immune system is beginning to function better... (I used to never get colds!)

I believe the Bionic 880 treatment was successful in eradicating Borrellia bacteria from my body's cells. I am now beginning to see improvement in speech, swallowing and GI function. The bizarre skin rashes/bumps are clearing up. The depression, panic attacks and sensory issues (photosensitivity, hyperacusis) seem to be GONE. My motor functions are still bad but I'm told they should get better with physio. I have brought a machine back with me in order to continue treating co-infections, metals, etcetera.

I know I still have a lot of work to do but I also have hope again. [Smile]
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Brussels, I check the the individual vials from the borrelia series I brought back with me from time to time.

I test negatively for all of them and it's coming up on 6 months soon. I also test negatively for all the co-infection vials I have.

I am doing Allergie-Immun which is working on a very deep level. I am only doing that right now and trying to let my body re-learn how to deal with things without the help of much else besides the remedy.

zombie-mummy, I'm so glad you are seeing improvement!!
Posted by Cooper (Member # 15968) on :
What is the turn around time or wait to go? I have email their office as well. Maybe Germans dont email?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Cooper, sometimes they take some time to answer emails. I don't know what the wait is right now.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Deb, thanks for your answer! So glad for you!!!
This is great news, wow, already 6 months!!

Did you continue photooning for borrelia or never more? If yes, it means the 2 weeks did the job for borrelia in your case? At least, until now!
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Brussels, not sure what you mean "at least, until now".

I have treated twice for borrelia at Dr. W's suggestion and that was it.

Cooper, it is probably best to call- early in the morning. They only take phone calls before 11 am (German time) now, as I was told recently.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Deb, sorry, my brain is either going too fast... I know that Dr. W. sees some patients in a yearly base to check if they had their borrelia back or not. That's what I meant, that at least until now, you are probably not such a case for a relapse. Which is great!

So the total time of treatment for borrelia was about 3 weeks in total in your case?

Posted by zombie_mummy (Member # 17402) on :
Originally posted by Brussels:
Six and others who did the Bionic, how are you guys testing for the borrelia nosodes, specially the higher potencies?

I heard from someone that came back from Germany some time ago still testing for the D200...

Just curious to know if you all test negative energetically for all the borrelia nosodes and antibodies...

Zoombie mummy, welcome back!!! I hope you'll post here about your trip / progress / treatment!!

Thank you, Brussels!

Dr. W. tested me with the BICOM on the first day of treatment. The machine made a horrid groaning sound (I immediately recognized what sixgoofy was talking about) and the dial barely moved. He told me I had a very heavy load of Borrelliosis and that I had it for 15-20 years. I almost began to weep when he said that...

After 5 photon treatments, he retested me with the BICOM again. This time, the dial was moving into the more normal range, 50-60, and I was only + for D1000 dilution. He gave me a 6th treatment right away, followed, as usual, by IV ozone and then a mineral IV. He felt that this 6th treatment would take care of the last remaining bugs.

I have been back 12 days and have not tried to retest yet.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Many symptoms that we automatically assume as Lyme caused, are not. Heavy metals, industrial chemicals, biological substances the body reacts to (autoimmune or allergic to ones own) , inherited toxins by ancient infections, and the unresolved inherited conflicts and the conflicts we stashed away unresolved from our present life.

All can cause any pain problem, any neurological problem, any motor dysfunction, any gut problem. None have to do with Lyme, but are very much a part of our overall situation and probably, very possibly are the reasons why Lyme knocked us down so hard.

The Bionic will not solve many of these situations, because they originate at the DNA level, and Bionic does not reach there.
All I can tell you, some remarkable things start to happen once you address the major allergies and the different conditions I mention above.
Much of this is not known to us, but all are directing our life.

At no time did this become more real as when we recently started to do the Allergie Immun therapy. That's when things really start to happen. I will let you know when the signal is "all clear". We are still in the middle of it.
And patience is of essence. It can only be done a few blockages at a time. Otherwise the body would be overwhelmed.

Many people with Lyme who have taken the test come up with some 30plus dysregulations, one of which, alone, can disturb functions anywhere in the body. This is not Lyme. This is a dysfunctional Autonomic Nervous System. No supplement in the world will repair this, yet a few drops of water containing the correct information that is then picked up by the system apparently can. I know it can because we are experiencing it.

The longer we have run on this wrong track, the more problems. All of us have the habit to brush things under the rug rather than fixing them.

Finding the problems and adjusting the polarity is all it takes. Fixing the software.

I liken these problems to hitting a letter on the keyboard, say a "w", and the screen instead will show a "b". Something has gone wrong in the transmission -- a short in the system --- somewhting is wrong in the wiring.

It also can be fixed, but not with the Bionic.

Take care.
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
so GiGi, at this point do you recommend only doing the AI and not making the trek to germany? or are both helpful?

i'm also wondering if everyone who's traveled to germany for bionic treatment thus far has seen dr. W, or if anyone has treated with one of the other bionic therapists. please feel free to pm me if sharing publicly makes you less than comfortable.

Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
Posted by R62 (Member # 18531) on :
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Heiwalove, I would do AI first before anything else, unless I were in an acute Lyme situation when abx, etc. are needed. I would patiently do the AI and then go from there.

In my opinion, any treatment still necessary after that is much easier and more productive because the allergies do not hold up detoxing.

All AI tests that I have seen so far from people who have or had Lyme are showing allergies to Wheat/Gluten, corn, soy, many mold and fungi, and the major toxic heavy metals, as well as inherited toxins, unresolved present conflicts and a number of inherited conflicts. Added are usual blocked organs, often the thyroid and pancreas, pineal gland, and in some cases some others. There are also blocked areas (average 5) in the spine that are locking up some of the problems until the AI therapy releases these, often related to pain symptoms. (all at DNA level)

It is readily evident that all these block most detox efforts and I don't think it is a good approach to try to go around these problems. They are one of the real reasons we became ill in the first place.

This is how I feel about it and exactly what I would do, especially if I had already spent years trying another route. It has long become obvious to me that all these dysregulations, average 30 plus for any of us who have done the test, are major roadblocks holding up everything else.

Sooner or later, the Bionic treatment will be available here. Maybe it still takes travel.

If I wanted to get Bionic treatment more quickly, I would probably see the therapist or a therapist in Germany who has been wise enough to include AI in her treatment protocol and who is able to treat not only Borrelia, but also the co-infections, as well as treating the conflict situations if any were to arise during the treatment. (That is called Psycho-Kinesiology - PK , a therapy Dr. K. has developed, written a book about, and included in his treatment protocol for many years.)

I saw Dr. K. this weekend at a seminar and the first sentence out of his mouth was "yes, you can't detox any of the metals or substances you are allergic to". He now has a Bionic at his office. And he was quite excited about AI, because he is allergic to gluten himself. Like most of us, he didn't know of this method.

I am sure you can find Bionic treatment soon overhere. It may take some travel.

Let me add here that the longer we sweep these problems under the rug, where the body is forced to stay on the wrong track with one dysregulation added to the next, the longer it takes to clean it up. The younger, the better, because the older body does not have all that many energy reserves left. I pray for my husband. I am doing fine with the AI therapy - but I was the only one in the group so far who did not have any food allergy or inherited toxins. Maybe that was the reason I sailed through Lyme much more quickly.

I had loads of industrial chemical toxins, as everyone else is now finding out. They are searched for in test #2, #3, etc. I forgot to mention these above - and if these are combined with other allergies, you can only imagine what happens if the body is at a loss of what to do with these -- we end up a literal landfill!

If you think you do not have any of these "problems", you will probably change your mind when you get your first test results. I have no doubt, again, that this is the reason we got ill in the first place. This is the world we live in and the one, sadly, we are passing on to our children. Children are now born with wheat and dairy allergies, and many others.

I never cared to take tests that do not also give me a solution to any problems. The best about all here, there is a solution to it - a test and therapy for an affordable price that works and is permanent.

Think it over carefully.

Take care.
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
thanks GiGi. i so appreciate your help and advice, as always. [Smile]

up for anyone else who might have something to add.

also, if anyone is planning on traveling to germany for bionic treatment in the near-ish future, i'd love to know. (i'm still definitely considering it but am not yet sure; i might try AI drops and other, cheaper approaches first.)

again, feel free to pm me! [Smile]
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Heiwa, Selma is doing well with Pe1 and I'm trying to get my friend who runs a small holistic center to buy it, as there is a guy there who has been doing ART type muscle testing with nosodes and homeopathic remedies for 30 years and he's very good. I would like him to learn about photon therapy. They're in Long Island. She is leery about buying a Bionic at this point because it is still unproven and expensive but Pe1 is very reasonable!!!
Posted by UnexpectedIlls (Member # 15144) on :
How can you get the bionic treatment with Dr. K???
Posted by heiwalove (Member # 6467) on :
oxygenbabe, that's super exciting! i'm actually considering saving up for a PE1.. because even if i could afford the trip to germany and treatment with dr. w, there's no way i could also afford to bring a bionic back with me.

can you pm me the name of the muscle testing doc in LI, if you get a chance? i wonder if it's the same guy my friend with lyme sees..

& if in the near-ish future it would be possible to get bionic tx with dr. k, that would be amazing!
Posted by Lymic (Member # 19335) on :
Hi Everyone,

This is my first post here. I'd like to let everyone know that I'm going to try the Bionic 880 treatment on my own here in Toronto, Canada with a machine brought back from a fellow Lyme sufferer. I'll be "on my own" so to speak but will follow a strict detox protocol to minimize the effect of the die-off. Please track my progress on my blog at the address in my signature below.

Anyone else who has recently came back from Germany?

Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
Dr. K is not doing bionic treatment on patients at this time. He has patients that have purchased the machine and are using it like myself, but he does not offer it to patients to my knowledge.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
This is great!!! [woohoo]

Look forward to following your progress Lymic. Good luck. [Big Grin]
Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
Lymic, all the best to you and do take care: go slowly and don't forget to take plenty of fatty acids whilst on those binders,

Posted by Lymic (Member # 19335) on :
Thank you all for the well wishes.

Before I decided to proceed with the Bionic, I have a question on my mind which I hope someone here could help shed some light on.

My concern has to do with the Borrelia series nosodes that I got from Deseret Biologicals. Since the nosodes contain the energies for 3 infections (Borrelia, Babesia, Erlichia), and that I only have the Borrelia infection (tested negative on Babesia and Erlichia energetically), I would like to know if it would be safe to use the nosodes with the Bionic 880.

My concern is that I would be sick with Babesia and Erlichia symptoms even though my Borrelia infection would be treated by the Bionic, if I used these nosodes. I know it doesn't seem to make sense (i.e., how could an infection be induced by something external to the body?), but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Any input would be much appreciated! Thank you.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Hi Lymic, the Deseret are actually not energetic nosodes, they are derived from the bacteria.
Posted by Lymic (Member # 19335) on :
Six, your PM box is full. Could you please free up some space so I could reply to your PM? Thank you.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Doing it now.
Posted by Lymic (Member # 19335) on :
Dear Six,

Thank you so much for your prompt response. What you said is very confidence inspiring -- that Dr. W's patients had the nosode with the European strain of Borrelia and they didn't acquire the strain from it. For me, the more realistic concern would be my previously diagnosed Babesia is actually sitting dormant, which would be "waken up" by the Bionic 880 with these nosodes. That's ok though; I was expecting herx and I'll just try harder with my detox.

In terms of the power level, you advised on my blog that Dr. W. suggested a power level of 25% at the beginning for people without the benefits of the detox IV. How is your daughter doing with that protocol? Did she achieve remission in 6 sessions, or it took longer?

Thanks again Six. Take care.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Lymic, why not starting only with borrelia? It is HARD enough to deal with borrelia only!

Can't Desbio make the borrelia nosodes separately?

Anyway, good luck!!!
Posted by Lymic (Member # 19335) on :
Brussels, Desbio only offers nosodes with borrelia, babesia, and erlichia. They don't offer nosodes with borrelia only. [Frown]
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
We all knew going into it that we had to treat coinfections later, that they weren't treated in Germany.

I just found out today that you were making a commission on Bionic 880's from the manufacturer without the knowledge of Dr W ..... I wonder