Hi, I just posted my story to the "files" section on the home page of this group. I wrote it about a year ago, and so far, things still hold.
ellen ("rasheedaas")
I followed Buhner's protocol and I am completely symptom-free. I hope you have very good success with it. If you have any questions, just ask here at the list, you will get very good responses.
Ellen
--- In Lyme_Aid_Buhner@ yahoogroups. com, "Liz" wrote: > > Can you say how long it took to get symptom free on Buhner and whether > you were taking anything else? > >
Posted by CherylSue (Member # 13077) on :
I tried cumanda, burbur, Enula, and other drops. Herxed a whole lot. Sorry, but I didn't improve until I want on doxycycline.
I would suggest treating with ABX first, and then maybe doing the herbal once you are on your feet and need maintenance.
IMO, CherylSue
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
Yes (Depends which ones you do, and which brand of product)
Posted by mojo (Member # 9309) on :
I think that herbal treatments can work and I know of some people who have reached remission with herbal remedies only.
In my opinion, most of us need Antibiotics for at least a part of our treatment. I've used ABX alone, with Herbals and Herbals alone. I am about to go back to ABX plus herbals after being on the full Cowden for four or five months. The Cowden has definatley brought me closer to remission and I had a nice break from ABX. It's just very expensive and not a good time for me to be spending a few extra hundred bucks per month on my treatment.
I think that each of us needs to work with our physician customize our protocols and find what works for us.
Posted by Melanie Reber (Member # 3707) on :
Please make certain that you are under the care of a qualified physician who is highly recommended by others here. One who is well versed in the treatment of Tickborne diseases.
While herbals do have merit for somethings...you may be dealing with a mixture of infections that require a mixture of medications.
I think the majority will agree that the first and most potent form of treatment will include antibiotics and other prescription meds to quickly eradicate infection.
You only have one opportunity to treat early...
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
Lots of good advice here. Look in my signature for some old threads on Lymenet about Buhner Protocol and other stuff.
Even though I've had very good success with herbal treatment of my chronic Lyme, I also would not treat with herbs-only if it were just an early infection. You only get one chance and we KNOW that high doses of antibiotics taken for several months does knock out Lyme if taken early.
Maria
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
-
Sounds like you are using the Cowden protocol. I'm not familiar with that, however, I'd be sure to read everything you could about it AND, in addition, the three books below before clarifying your plans.
Even if you choose an alternative plan, you MUST know everything about the pharmaceutical plans, EVERYTHING you can about the spirochete of lyme, the protozoa of babesia and the ricketsia (sp?) of ehrlichia - and then wantever the hell bartonella is.
You must know the enemy and how it lives, acts, and dies - at every stage of its life - and what is required of it and of you. And you must know how to protect your liver at each step.
And, as wonderful as it sounds, simply supporting your liver, your immune system is not enough by any stretch of the imagination. You must have specific antimicrobial treatment (specific to each of the infections and each stage) in addition to body support.
Treatment must be able to penetrate the Blood Brain Barrier (BBB). If you cannot find proof that it does, you cannot be sure.
Any doctor with whom you work should know all this, regardless of the mode of treatment.
Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine (Paperback) by Dr. QingCai Zhang (Author), Yale Zhang (Author)
you can access his web site through www.hepapro.com or try www.sinomedresearch.org and use "clinic" and then "clinic" for the passwords or call Hepapro.
=====================================
Not a lyme book, but still an invaluable resource:
This book has only one reference to lyme (in the historical use of sarsarparilla for another spirochetal infection). However, it is a vital first book to read - or a reference - for anyone interested in understanding nutritional methods.
Graciously, much of this book is on line. It can also be purchased from this site or through Amazon where you can look inside the book and see many customer reviews.
-
Posted by Meg (Member # 22) on :
I agree wholeheartedly with Melanie! Read the Success Story thread above on this forum and everything else you can get your hands on about lyme disease.
Posted by sunseaflower (Member # 6681) on :
i have used one year samento, resveratrol, sarsapirilla(buhners protocol) first six months my condition is improved some. but six month later samento effect is decreased. one year later my naturel killer level dropped 84 from 254 samento good drug. but i think borrelia is gained resistance by and by in me
Posted by not so sublime lyme (Member # 15185) on :
If I had Lyme (darn it, I do!), I would first make sure I was seeing a good llmd, as Melanie suggested.
Then I would make sure I was tested for all co-infections. Before even waiting for those test results, a good doctor would have me on appropriate antibiotics ASAP (with probiotics and other supplements.)
Herbs can be effective supplements, but I would run them by my llmd before trying. (And I would not use them INSTEAD of antibiotics, unless for some reason I could not tolerate them.)
As other people on this thread have already stated, if you fool around with herbs before even using antibiotics, the lyme can get stronger and more invasive.
Good luck!
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
so what do you recommend if you're like me-- antibiotics give me c. difficile...
i've got to try other methods, but am low on cash like others....
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Curcumin and pycnogenol look to HELP (not cure). Lots of legit research backing those.
Dosages are critical.
This is one very very tough pathogen.
Relying on strictly herbals or homeopathy isn't powerful enough, IMO.
Antibiotics are the way to go if you catch Lyme early. As far as Lyme getting stronger with no treatment... I don't know.
I had Lyme untreated for about 9 years. I took various abx for 8 months & saw no improvement at all. It just made me worse. I haven't ruled them out completely but I'm not using them now.
I'm looking into alternative methods as I've described on my other posts.
Everybody is different. I think there are some people where the abx just don't work.
You also have to consider appropriate treatment for co-infections, viruses, mycoplasmas, & other issues.
When you find out that you have Lyme... it's really not just Lyme. You usually have to start dealing with a bunch of other things that you may not have known about.
Plus, there are other systemic drains that having all these infections may have caused - like fibrinogen issues, hormonal imbalances, detoxification, etc.
All of this plays a part in the appropriate treatments. It can be very individual. It really depends on alot of factors as to how to choose the appropriate treatment for you.
Posted by Meg (Member # 22) on :
Sparkle, It takes years and the correct abx to see improvement--when you were ill for 9 plus years, I would expect not seeing improvement for a minimum of a couple years.
There are numerous posters here who had lyme many years before being treated, TuTu had lyme over 40 years before treatment! Ask her what she thinks of abx treatment and what it's done for her.
Posted by not so sublime lyme (Member # 15185) on :
Meg, you are so right. My first llmd told me I would probably need antibiotic treatment for 2-3 years. My second llmd just says "possibly years".
I've been sick for so long, I was not expecting a "quick fix". I am just so glad to finally have a diagnosis that offers treatment, no matter how long.
I'm happy to say I am lucky to have noticed some improvement already from my antibiotic therapy, and I'm still a relative "newbie.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
No offense to anyone out there... I think I can do it without abx.
I believe it is possible to kick Lyme without them. It's just not for everyone.
I do an extensive amount to research. I'm not against abx but I do not want to do them for a long period of time.
It goes against everything I believe in about health.
I'm having great results using infrared light.
I might do things differently if I thought that I had co-infections - what I do is not for everyone. We all are different.
Posted by sunshinyday (Member # 14337) on :
Sparkle - I have coinfections and I have been steadily improving on herbs and supplements. I do work with A LLND. I agree about the damage some of the long term abx cause.
We are all different and have to make our own choices.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
There are alot of alternatives to abx. It's really just trial & error. There are no guarantees. It's the path less traveled....
You will get alot more people advocating to use drugs but there are very good alternatives with herbs, energy medicine, rife, supplements, massage, homeopathy, detoxification, bee venom, etc.
It's just that most doctors have limited knowledge of these things & in some cases are even prohibited from talking about them.
You have to do the studies on your own.
Posted by CraigC (Member # 13732) on :
What long term damage does abx do? I've researched before deciding to start treatment, and the only thing I could find about abx, was that they can do damage to the liver and/or kidneys. But, provided you test monthly for organ function, you can stop them if your serum levels are out of range [and re-start when things subside].
I could only see the potential for the body to become resistant to certain types, which could mean trouble, if needed for other ailments down the road. But, if you're not on them for years and years, who's to say that will even happen?
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I've read that 70% of your immune system is in your gut. Yeast & other fungal infections can cause a great impact on your ability to get well.
The abx also cause the bacteria to change form into a cyst. These cyst are harder to kill. The spirochetes can also burrow into places that the abx cannot reach like in between cells, spinal fluid, brian tissue, bone marrow...
I think abx are great if you catch the Lyme right away. The longer you've had it, the harder it is to get completely rid of it.
Some people just don't do well on abx. It can be due to adverse reactions to the drugs or they can't get rid of the toxins from the die-off.
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
Craig--- i'll just mention a few things i think i've read, not giving any references.
Women who have filled more than 17 or 18 prescriptions for antibiotics have a doubled risk of breast cancer; causal mechanism unknown as yet.
I think i read that people who have taken Tetracycline have a higher risk of lymphoma.
Flagyl and Tinidazole cause cancer in rats.
----pamois.
Posted by packypacky (Member # 41758) on :
Good thread
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- There are many other links since the 8 years since this thread circulated. I try to add new articles / books to this thread: