If you look at the pictures Gary has posted you will see the same pictures you have just posted.
It is very possible like worms ,spirochetes are microscopic(babies) and adults (macroscopic) The babies are probably microscopic.
If you look at Garys pictures you can see the corkscrew shape. For me this is really profound. I had the same organisms exit, I just didn't photograph them.
Gael
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
I have not seen the pics yet, but how on earth could something that needs to be magnified 7-10,000x be visible even if an adult form? That'a quite tiny! Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Because you are seeing the babies. We haven't taken into account that there are both babies and adults which is the natural progression of nature.
I have seen several physicians post that they thought spirochetes are macroscopic. Sorry, can't remember where I saw this info.
It was a long time ago, but one was a psychiatrist from Calif. who thought that most mental illness was caused by spirochetes.
Gael
Posted by nomoremuscles (Member # 9560) on :
What do you mean when you say "babies"?
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
Gael, I was looking at his video and those pathogens look like the pictures on lymephotos.com. I've never read that borrelia is macroscopic.
Whatever pathogens he found on the video do not look like borrelia so we are probably not looking at the same thing.
I feel pretty certain that borrelia cannot be seen with the naked eye and I'm sure mainstream science would agree as would no doubt Burgdorferi.
If we were able to see them with the naked eye or even with a normal microscope, it would be much easier to diagnose lyme disease. Instead, we must look at antibodies because they are hard to find in blood but also because they are not visible in blood or tissue.
It's possible they are the filarial worms that Burgdorferi found accompanies borrelia, I couldn't say because I don't know much about that.
Perhaps Gary is finding the parasites that cause morgellans? Don't know much about morgellan's either but I think someone suggested that the black things that were coming out of his skin might be morgellans.
Terry
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Terry,
I think the ones identified at lymephotos under borrelia burgdorfer is what the author is describing as bacteria that has mutated therefore making them macroscopic.
Most of the infections are sitting in the small intestines. The larger ones are probably not swimming around in the blood, just the borrelia that are microscopic.
That is why they are hard to identify. We can debate this all day, but for me the bottom line is that many people are having the same results.
The same pathogens are exiting their bodies and they are starting to get relief. As I've stated before, I don't think there is only a "Select Few" that have these pathogens.
The people that think they have Morgellons have been diagnosed with Lyme disease. Remember, Morgellons is a name someone attached to a so-called fiber disease.
If you look at the lymephotos site you will see the colored "fibers" that are filarial worms. My intention and I know Garys is to help everyone to become aware of a big part of why they are so sick.
If you think of all the symptoms attached to Lyme disease and view the pictures of the worms and parasites, it makes sense that this is what's causing most of the pain and suffering.
Gael
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
Hi Gael, I looked at the lymephoto site a long time ago and at the time didn't know much about borrelia. I didn't catch that they were claiming that borrelia has morphed into a gigantic organism.
I'm not a scientist but I would be surprised if these are borrelia. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that these pathogens are transmitted with borrelia.
Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction though so I try to be open to possibilities while still retaining a healthy skepticism.
I don't mind cordially agreeing to disagree.
Terry
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Hi Terry,
I like the way you are having such a cordial debate. (Agree to disagree)It is very refreshing as opposed to arguing, which I hate.
What do you think of the picture under Garys blog(second one down) where you can see the spiral shape?
I was just so shocked to see this. I am afraid our scientific community just doesn't have all the answers. If they did we wouldn't be so sick.
We only have to go with what they tell us, but I think we need to be open to other possibilites. From the time I saw the lymephotos site(over 2 yrs ago) I just knew it was on the money.
Seeing these pathogens there, plus Garys pics and seeing them personaly, and then so many others reporting the same thing, for me it was a lightbulb moment.
I am just truly grateful to have been given this info and want to see everyone get well.
Gael
[ 15. January 2009, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: glm1111 ]
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
terry and gael,
to 2 wonderful women who had a civil conversation without it turning into a verbal exchange!!
KUDOS MY FRIENDS! you each got your points across. glad to know you both Posted by Andromeda13 (Member # 8314) on :
I never realised either that there was an idea going round that the worm sized things are actually grown-up borrelia.
But a few weeks ago I was wondering whether that could be the case, after viewing many, many microscope pictures of the worms in my blood and feeling intuitively as if the general shape was like a spirochaete. They look like giant borrelia, they are twisted a little bit spirally, and some of them have threads like flagellae coming off them.
What if it were feasible? That would be one of the most amazing findings in biology.
Why not though? We cannot pretend to know everything. There are certain fungal species called slime molds which exist as single cells or as a few cells, not sure exactly. At certain times they gather together in their tens of thousands and march in a long trail of slime as if it were one united organism - then when they have reached a new place they find suitable, they start to specialise their groups of cells and make themselves into a classical mushroom-fungus type of shape.
Wouldn't it be wierd if the nematodes that W. Burgdorfer saw were giant super free-ranging adult forms of the spirochaetes?
Best wishes, Andromeda
Posted by sutherngrl (Member # 16270) on :
No way is this borrelia. I know physicians that have researched LD for 30 years and borrelia cannot be seen with the naked eye. If borrelia were that easy to find, LD would be very easy to diagnose.
Its just silly to think that they are so obvious and easy to see. If they were, we wouldn't be doing inaccurate Western Blots. You could just do a blood draw and there they would be.
Posted by doc (Member # 14471) on :
ya cant see umm , the end lol
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Looks like he may have a worm infestation. They look like segmented worms to me. Whether or not he sheds them regularly and never noticed, or salt is helping kill the worms, who knows. Maybe a good worm medicine like albendazole would cure him quickly and permanently. Perhaps he should see a gastroenterologist.
Organisms don't "mutate" by becoming giants hundreds or thousands of times their natural size.
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Oxy,
This is not just Garys infestation. There are too many people reporting the same pathogens exiting. All of them have been dx with Lyme disease.
Yes, some are worms, but drugs like ivermection only kill the babies and not adults. Also the parasites that are segmented are carried in a biofilm. Given the size of the whole organism, they are in one piece. You can see the close ups of this in lymephotos.
Andromeda,
would love to hear or see what else you have found. It's great that you are so open. I think we have to be. What kind of microscope do you have?
Some of the still pictures Gary displayed are CLEARLY in a spiral or corkscrew shape. So, what are they if not borrelia?
These are coming out of the intestines and are too large to be drawn thru a needle and syringe. All I am saying is we need to keep an open mind and not take the word of every Doctor or Microbiologist that gives us info.
Our mainstream doctors have misdiagnosed us for years with the same kind of dogmatism. We were also told that the earth was flat weren't we?
It would be great if we could all just keep an open door to all possibilites so we can come closer to a cure.
Bettyg...Thanks for your kind support
Gael
Posted by oxygenbabe (Member # 5831) on :
Borrelia does not have an exclusive on spirals...
Yes I believe folks have worms, other than Gary.
Where they got them I don't know. Don't think they're the microfilarial worms. Considering that our food supply is international and not well regulated, they could come from lots of places.
Biofilms can be helped with lumbrokinase, nattokinase, or other mucolytic enzymes.
Posted by hcconn22 (Member # 5263) on :
WHY would anybody take these kind or photos seriously.
Like he can see things in his kitchen or basement that NO other scientist, lab or university can.
Get real.
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
How would you explain the fact that many people with Lyme disease are seeing the EXACT same parasites?
I have personaly seen the same things myself. If you think that the scientists are much smarter than the doctors that have misadiagnosed us for years think again.
Keeping an open mind and not putting any of our peers down who are trying to help find an answer is a much more intelligent and kinder approach.
Gael
Posted by hcconn22 (Member # 5263) on :
They copy the photo's from the same web sites or use the same software- photoshop.
Gary was banned from this site and Lyme Friends for many reasons and it was- Not that he discovered a new form of borrelia or can see bacteria in his kitchen science center.
Posted by Tracy9 (Member # 7521) on :
If Gary really thinks he is onto something, he should contact Dr. Alan McDonald who is the top researcher of the spirochete.
He would know how to interpret this.
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Thanks Tracy,
I will pass that info onto Gary. I am sure he will appreciate it.
Gael
Posted by FancyRatFan (Member # 3088) on :
The only way to know for sure either way is to have someone like Mcdonald examine it. I would love to hear what he would have to say.
Wasn't Gary going to take some to a lab or some place?
Fancy
Posted by ctlyme (Member # 9022) on :
I think it is irresponsible of Gary to refer to his findings in the video as borrelia.
How does he know what it is? Somebody will see this and think b/c he is a nurse that he knows what he is talking about.
The Lyme community doesn't need this misinformation circulating around.
If you wnted to say it "appears to be" or " it makes you wonder"before than thats fine but he says it like he is staing fact.
Posted by Andromeda13 (Member # 8314) on :
Hi Gael,
I now regret voicing my bizarre speculation about the super-sized spirochaete! It was just some lateral thinking.
I have a very old microscope with low level light source and the following lenses, eyepiece x 7.5, objectives x 10 and x 40.
There's no way I can definitely say that I am seeing worms, but the reason I bought the old second-hand scope was because a doctor had identified a microfilarial worm in my blood over a year ago. I just took it for granted that it was something I would never be able to see for myself. Then other people said they could see them. I don't know if I'm seeing is the same as what the doctor saw, and I didn't begin to look for them until after I'd taken Ivermectin several times.
The microfilarial worm was first identified by a doctor called Larry Klapow about 12 years ago. He was seeing it in the sputum of patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, which to give it its proper name we call Myalgic Encephalomyelitis in the UK.
Here is the patent where he describes the worm, which he has named Cryptostrongylus pulmonii, and the way he has tried to treat the infection in a few patients: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5645819/claims.html
I just tried to put photos and drawings here but it doesn't work without a url to put in. My photos are not anywhere on the web so I can't.
One thing I do know is that these worms, if that's what they are, have decreased in number since taking Ivermectin, especially the little larva stage ones. I haven't bothered looking for a few months now; I feel frustrated because I cannot afford a better microscope and I really cannot say what they are so I kind of gave up looking.
At this site there are brilliant photos, everything shown there looks like what I see in my scope, only much better!
A lyme patient I know here in the UK took some good photos of very similar worms to the Infectious Disease consultant in his area, and she said that everyone has them and they are nothing to worry about. So either she thinks that structures up to 1.5 mm are ok in someone's blood, or she is covering up something. Either way, it's all been stonewalled.
Andromeda
Posted by She R Lock (Member # 18823) on :
Doesn't look like Bb to me unless you mean BS... He did say he took it to his cousin a biologist and she looked at it for a few seconds and said it was Bb... Sounds like BS to me SHERLOCK
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
Any idea why there is no photo of bartonella?
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Hi Andromeda,
Thank you so much for taking the time to post this very excellent info. I had also read that microfilarial worms were being found in CFS patients.
Glad the Ivermectin helped you. Have you taken anything to kill the adults as I understand that Ivermectin only kills the babies? The pictures you posted were excellent.
It is scary when ID Doctors say that worms in the lungs and lesions on the brain is normal and nothing to worry about. I had that happen myself as I am sure many of us had. Hope you are doing well,
Gael
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Hi Paul,
I had the same question as you about the omission of bart in the photos. I would also love to know how they identified the other organisms like babs and erlichia and bb. I think I will try and research that further.
I do know one thing though, I have seen them all and they are vacating my body. What a scary disease this is.
Hope you are doing well,
Gael
Sherlock,
Why would you come on here with such an arrogant, hateful response? And after only a few posts. Just not necessary.
Posted by She R Lock (Member # 18823) on :
I don't think it's arrogant or hateful... Just giving my opinion like you... Doesn't look like Bb to me just BS..
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
I was just over at lymestrategies looking around and saw a post that Marc Fett was responding to in reference to Garys videos.
He said that the people at lymephotos feel that once bb is disseminated it morphs (grows) If this is true it certainly could explain a lot of our horrific symptoms along with other parasites and worms that have invaded our body.
I will try and investigate further. I really feel that this is a big possibility especially after getting a good look at the spiral shapes in Garys video.
But of course like anything else, people want proof. I know Gary is going to try to get his specimens analyzed.
Gael
Posted by psano2 (Member # 11711) on :
Borrelia (and I would say just about ANY bacteria) are microscopic and cannot be seen by the naked eye. They've been measured by scientists who do research on them at 10-30um (micrometers).
The photos on Lymephotos were taken with a high powered microscope, so while the images may look the same size, you wouldn't even begin to be able to see borrelia on the tip of the tweezers Gary is using to move around the critters that he's pictured. The actual size of the spirochetes on Lymephotos are hundreds of thousands times smaller than pictured.
What Gary has taken pictures of may be some type of worm, but they aren't Borrelia bacteria.
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Hundreds of thousands of times smaller. That's hardly a realistic statement. I have had the same exact parasites/worms/bacteria come out of me and they are VERY visible to the naked eye. They look EXACTLT like the photos on lymephotos.
I measured some of the larger worms pictured and some of them were 8" long. The other bacteria as well was very visible to the naked eye. I don't have to rely on the pictures.
I have seen them first hand so for me it's not a mystery. Well, we can debate this all day, but the whole idea of this thread was to give you a link to Garys site if you want to see his pictures.
It's your choice whether you want to do that or not and possibly gain some insight to help you heal.
Gael
Posted by psano2 (Member # 11711) on :
Gael, you are not looking at Borrelia bacteria. It doesn't mean that what you're seeing isn't related to your illness. You're simply seeing something else that isn't a Borrelia bacteria. They are most likely a type of worm or some other parasite.
I'm not an MD, but I do have a Dr of Pharmacy and Bachelor of Science in Biology. I worked in a lab for about a year that did electron microscopy and other types of microscopy, so I'm not just spouting things off the top of my head.
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Hi P,
I have a medical background as well and I am not discounting yours. I am just an out of the box thinker. I agree that borrelia is microscopic when the tick spits it into the host.
I just think it is very possible that it can morph when it is living in the body. Remember they are shapeshifters. Do I know for sure? No,and neither does anyone else.
Until the samples get tested the answer will evade us. We can only go by what the scientific community tells us. But they used to deny that ulcers were caused by a bacteria, so I just can't go by their word.
I am open to all possibilities with this disease. I think we all should be,
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