I'm posting this thread so that my fellow Lymies can gain some insight on how tough this particular co-infection, as well as others, can be to diagnose, and to completely eradicate. Besides, we all enjoy looking at pictures, especially when we can learn from them.
I've asked Lou B to close this thread so that it can be used for informational purposes only, and so that it doesn't get muddied up with heated discussions, or go off on a different subject. I hope that he will keep it at the top for a few months so that everyone will have a chance to look at it.
First, let me give you a little history on my Babs Dx. When I started off here about 4 years ago, I had only been officially Dx with Lyme by Igenex and Bowen. That was a great start for me, and was a huge relief because it gave me solid answers where there had been confusion and desperation before.
I could see from reading the board here that it was very unlikely that I had only the one infection, so while treating the Lyme, I asked my Dr to test me for Bart and Babs. He suggested Igenex again. So I did that, but the results were negative for both.
The next time I went with MDL for Bart and the same thing happened.....negative. I felt pretty strongly that I did have Bart because I had some of the tell tale signs; specifically stretch marks on my hips, and a Granuloma Anulaire (looks like a ring worm) on my leg.
So I proceeded to treat for Bart after about 4 months of treating Lyme. There was no doubt that it was the correct decision from the herxing and improvement that followed. But I still wanted to get an official Dx so that I could justify continued high dose protocols, and also so that I might be able to track my progress through a reliable blood test. I also wanted to check for Babs again, just to try and make sure that I didn't have it.
That was about the time that Igenex came up with the FISH test. This was supposed to be one of the best methods to know for sure if Babs was present. Yep, negative again. After discussing it with my Dr I decided to go ahead and try 4 months of Mepron + Zith + Artemisinin to see how I reacted.
Well, I did seem to make some progress on a Babs protocol. My night sweats gradually reduced to nothing in the last month (didn't have any until starting Tx), and I was getting a little stronger after 4 months of Tx. But I was unwilling to give this infection any more time when 3 previous tests showed that I didn't have it. So I moved on to Bart again.
About 5 months down the road I had read about a Dr in Arizona that was using blood smears in order to see Babs and Bart. It sounded promising, so I went ahead and spent some more money that I didn't have in order to take one last shot at it. This time it finally showed up!
This time I was determined to treat Babs until it was completely gone. I didn't want to have to worry about this infection anymore. So I went on a high dose protocol of 6 Malarone tabs a day + a number of other abx / herbs, including Heparin.
I did this for 8 months straight without stopping for one single day, and I have to say that I felt great. It felt like Babs was finally gone. I hadn't had any night sweats for the last 3 months straight. Not even a whisper of perspiration during the night, or upon awakening in the morning.
But I still wanted to make sure that it was gone because I didn't want it to be a waste of time, or to relapse in a month or two after stopping. I was also aware that a babs relapse was a very common occurrence here, even after a year or more of solid treatment. So I decided to get my own microscope and learn how to stain. I was able to see clearly that there was still a lot of Babs left in me, despite feeling like it was gone.
I continued on my protocol for another two months just to see if it made any difference....it didn't. So I moved on to a high dose Cryptolepis protocol. I knew from research that the standard dose wasn't really working. So I joined Planet Thrive and asked Buhner what he thought the upper limit of Crypto might be.
He said that he thought 2 tablespoons a day would be safe. So I did 3 a day just to make sure, and added in 2 cups of Coptis, 2 cups of Artemisia tea (very strong brews), as well as 4 caps of Allimed a day. I did this for 3 weeks solid. The results were disappointing. There was some improvement, but not nearly what I was expecting. I then tried a Dichroa root combo for 2 weeks that failed miserably.
I have a friend that I recently tested also. This person had tested negative for Babs using the blood smear test from Fry, and has been infected for over 5 years. You will see from the photos that this person had a very heavy load of Babesia in spite of a negative Dx.
The blood is best taken from the capillaries (finger stick) because that's where these organisms can evade the abx and immune system with ease. A thin smear should also be fixed to the side with methanol shortly after drying in order to get the best results. Most people opt for using venous blood from a vein because it's much easier to send in a vial of blood than it is to make up a smear and fix it before transporting. I was one of the lucky ones that had a positive ID for both Bart and Babs using venous blood, but there are many that do not.
Here are the pics. These are all recent photos. Most of the photos are of me. The last one is of my friend. These aren't the best pics, but they are pretty good considering that I took them with a $150 digital camera (Fuji FinePix A920) that has a macro setting for close ups.
I think that anyone who wants to can do this. It really isn't very difficult. I had zero experience in this when I started 10 months ago. A lot of info can be had on the web about how to make the smears, and where to buy the materials. My scope only cost me $300 on ebay. All you need is a good light scope that is classified as a Vet or lab scope, that has a 1000x magnification capability, and has an oil immersion type lens.
You don't need a Dark field or phase contrast scope to do this. The companies that sell the stains should have someone that can explain the proper techniques. A thin Giemsa stain (around $50), a buffer solution for rinsing, and methanol for fixing the slides are the main things that are needed. You will also need a coplin jar with a screw on lid for the actual staining, and a small clean container to rinse.
This is a stock photo from Fry showing Babs
This one is after 8 months of the Malarone protocol done with a thick Giemsa stain. It's a variation of the malteise cross.
This is a recent one of me
Another recent one of me with a Maltese
This is a recent one of me
Here's a close up of another Maltese cross
This is an older pic of me using a Wright Giemsa stain. I compared it with a stock photo of Bart, and it looks the same. I can't say for sure though. Scary huh?
Last, but not least, is the photo of my friend who was pretty sure of not having Babs. There were hundreds of these little buggers all bunched up in one very small part of the slide.
Sorry, but 8 is the maximun number of photos allowed on this thread. Good luck in your Dx and Tx!
Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
Micul,
Thanks so much for posting this.
What is your current treatment?
Doesn't look like you have tried Alinia or Elecampagne (Enula) yet. Or what about the old standby of Quinine and Clindamycin?
Bea Seibert
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
Is the main idea of this thread that we can't get rid of our babesia?
Seriously, I would like to know so I can just stop trying, and start focusing on other things like Lyme, Bart, etc.
So micul, are you saying you don't know of anything that will get rid of it?
Posted by micul (Member # 6314) on :
I haven't used Alinia long term, but I have used it in combo many times with flagyl at doses of 1000 mgs bid for 2 weeks at a time. I didn't see any improvement after using it.
I've used Quinine only once at 650 mgs tid + 600 mgs Clindamycin tid for 10 days. I didn't have my scope at the time so I can't comment on it.
I've also used double dose of Primaquine for 14 days + 500 mg of chloroquine daily + 600 mgs Clindamycin tid + Art pulsed in high doses. This combo showed a significant amount of improvement.
No more comments please. This isn't a discussion thread.
