any ideas other than deet?
Posted by Shosty (Member # 12232) on :
To be honest, our kids did not go camping after several of us had Lyme. People here have lots of different approaches,but that has been ours.
Posted by Buster (Member # 19472) on :
Yeah, burn the forrest down
I wear under armor turf gear with socks pulled over the bottom around the ankle. At least it will be impossible for a tick to get on me from the waist down...
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
For a little extra insurance if a bite does happen......
Buy two homeopathic remedies: a bottle of Ledum 200C and a bottle of Hypericum 200C. The bottles are small and easily carried. Taken as soon as possible after a tick bite (other bites, too), these remedies can usually prevent any infections, including Lyme.
If your local health food store doesn't have these potencies, they may be able to order them in for you at no additional charge (mine does). For the simple treatment protocol and sources for the remedies, go here:
I don't find camping worth the risk, but that's not completely a fair comment as I've never liked camping much anyway.
Wear light colored clothing .... tuck pants in socks .... you know the usual. Don't sit on logs (use chairs).
Posted by bettyg (Member # 6147) on :
hat coming down over shoulders
long sleeves, GLOVES tucked over long sleeves
you can use duct tape too around the sleeves nearest the arm pit area, and also GROIN area on both legs.
good luck
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
I love the outdoors and especially the woods. I live between 2 national forests.
I am trying Herbal Armor this year. If you do a search you should find much chat about it here on lymenet. One past poster had a daughter whose work took her to the amazon rainforest and they used this product with great success.
I'm not in an amazon forest, but so far, when I walk through the high weeds in my horse pasture, no ticks.
The flies have been very bad this year and they can be swarming the horses, but they don't swarm me. That is very pleasant.
It is limited experience so far but not very expensive to buy and worth a try.
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
I have really wanted to pose this question for a long time. For people that live in a wooded area and are exposed daily (I have read that on here)
If the ticks were black widow spiders would it change your mind about staying where you were at? Or would you send your child to camp, go hiking etc.
Sorry, don't mean to be judgemental, just wondering what folks would do.
Gael
Posted by Just Julie (Member # 1119) on :
don't go camping anymore. Not worth the risk. Other's disagree saying "don't let the ticks win" I say, if you survive your initial/first known bout w/ lyme, get to a level of normalcy again (or enough to try and carry out normal daily activities/hobbies, such as outdoors stuff) and go out "there" where there are known tick risks, get another tick bite, then THE TICK WINS.
the tick doesn't care that you've lived through hell and back, doesn't care if another living being ever came into the forested areas and camped, it will bite something. And that something might as well be you, or your kids.
I don't view this as a win-win situation. I view it as a survival of the fittest. And if your brain is fit enough again to contemplate putting your physical self (or your childrens)at risk, then imo, you cannot argue the consequences. You knew, and you did it anyway.
Fatalistic view? No, just realist.
I don't think there is a method out there, a spray, a chemical,a type of clothing, a homeopathic remedy/herb, that will derail the lyme bacteria, if it gets into your body. There is no guarantee that even duct taping the clothing shut around your extremities will do it either, and what kid would willingly subject themselves to THAT anyway? The embarassment factor would do away with any pretense of actually doing that, and just telling mom that they did it.
but, to each their own. My own will not camp again. I gave away all of our equipment, and do not entertain the notion of ever going back out there.
Posted by Dawn in VA (Member # 9693) on :
Permanone, Permanone, Permanon! (Brand name of permethrin- found at target, walmart, etc.) Spray it on clothing and let dry. Better than skin contact with insecticides. If ticks climb on treated clothing, they are killed almost instantly. I'd recommend spraying it on the tent, too.
Posted by njgirl14 (Member # 14174) on :
thank you for the suggestions. i have not heard of herbal armor before and will look that up. i will be getting the permethrin too.
i wish i could say no to the camping. my son is a boy scout and has ambitions to be an eagle scout. on one hand i want to say no sorry you have to give that up but on the other hand i know he could get lyme right in our yard. we live in a busy suburban area and my daughter was bit and got the bulls eye during recess at her school. it is every where.
i am quite disabled and can't walk at all due to lyme. it has affected our lives tremendously. i would love to insulate my kids completely from lyme but is that possible?
we take reasonable precautions and we educate ourselves and kids on what to do and look for. i want my kids to be cautious but don't want them to become nervous wrecks about the situation. i have to reassure them that they are not going to end up like me, but they are told this is a serious disease and they need to take care of themselves (eat properly, get enough sleep. etc) and be aware.
please don't judge me. this is difficult. i would like to put my family in a bubble and keep them safe. i would never want them to go through what i have been through.
Posted by mtree (Member # 14305) on :
Hi Nj......
I do agree with you...they can get bit in there own back yard...school play ground.... ..playing over at a friends house...
it is sooooo difficult....to have to make these decisions.......
.... your kids see what you are going through and I'm sure it's a lot for them ... I'm sure they are very aware of what could happen....
Scouts is a good thing and you should be very proud that your son has that ambission to become an Eagle Scout...good for him...
I do know that they do spray at scout camps....
I'm sure the leaders know (or they should know) of your situation and can see how it has effected your family and will also be vigilant......
no judgement....you are a great mom for coming and posting your concern and asking for advice....
hope he has a great time.... and comes home safe and sound....
mtree
[ 07-07-2009, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: mtree ]
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
Gael,
For me, it is not a choice. I love my life too much to change it. Period. If I have to change my life, I am ready to die and I mean that.
My father suffered his first major heart attack at 41 and he died at 57 of his 4th heart attack. I was 9 at the first attack and 26 when he died. I literally grew up watching him survive heart attacks.
He said to me many times, if the only way I can stay alive is to sit in a rocking chair on the front porch, then I don't want to live.
I understood it then and I understand it now.
Call it crazy if you like, but for some of us quality of life is more important than quanity.
City life was never for me and it never will be. I hate the ticks, but in the city you have other hazards.
PS: We do have black widow spiders, and rattlesnakes and copperheads. A car just struck and killed a 400lb black bear on my street Friday night and the wounded bear crashed through the fence where my horses are kept and died in their pasture.
We certainly do have our hazards here. But I have to tell you that in my 53 yrs, I have not personally known anyone who died from bear, snake, spider, or tick but I have known way too many who have died in car accidents.
I'm still riding in cars.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
I'd suggest using TKO Orange (www.tkoorange.com), also sold as Orange Guard in hardware stores and healthfood stores.
It's a nontoxic, essential oil from oranges, with the chemical compound d'limonene in it - it repels and kills bugs, including ticks. It's biodegradable, so needs to be applied frequently.
I spray it on my clothing, and it can also can be sprayed in the home, the yard, the camp area/camping gear, can be rubbed or misted on dogs and cats. Ok to use as long as no one is allergic to oranges.
It kills all bugs, so if you spray it outdoors, just be aware of that.
Posted by njgirl14 (Member # 14174) on :
thanks mtree
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
Me, too, Luvs. Wow, that's an incredible bear story!
The homeopathic prevention protocol that I mentioned above comes from homeopaths who live in `Lyme and tick country'. They've used and recommended this protocol to their clients; they've found it to be effective. The suggestion is supported by some evidence or I wouldn't have posted it.
For a total cost of about $20 that will treat many tick/bug bites, it's worth a try.
One thing I know for sure: If no one ever tries it, no one will ever find that it works.
What's the Boy Scout motto?
Be Prepared.
(And by the way, Ledum is an excellent remedy for spider bites.)
Posted by aMomWithHope (Member # 19255) on :
I would love to know the answer and recommendations to this too because my son very much wants to participate in a revolutionary war reenactment, but I've pretty much told him "nope, not gonna happen any time soon" because I'm scared to death now to let my children out in the grass and meadows. This has been very sad for us since we practically lived in the outdoors prior to Lyme and co.
So, if someone gets bitten or has the tick embedded, takes the homeopathic remedies, what is the next step then?
Test the tick and get antibiotics asap or continue on homeopathic meds?
Or does one just take the homeopathic meds with or without a bite after being outdoors just as a preventative?
How does one know that the homeopathic meds have worked?
I bought some Ledum--not the right potency, so will have to order 200--but have not used it because I'm not certain of how to use this properly, i.e., just one dose or continue and for how long and do you then follow up with doxy?
I would love some guidance here.
Thanks.
Posted by s0ngbird1962 (Member # 16395) on :
My 6 yr old son most likely got infected in his own backyard, or by our dog etc.... We live in an endemic area. I'm on the side of we can't quit living because of fear. We didn't get rid of our dogs, in fact, we just adopted another one from a shelter. We continue to camp and play outdoors.
I usually only use Avon-skin-so-soft as repellant, though, sometimes I'll use a stronger spray if in the woods. I stay away from deet.
Honestly, I wonder if all the poison's (carcinogens) people put on themselves to prevent bites/infection, is actually worse than what they are trying to prevent? Just a thought.
IMO, nothing beats vigilance....do tick checks & seek treatment if one occurs. Wish I had been more educated (and vigilant) about lyme when my baby was infected at age 4.
Best wishes to your son on his aspirations of becoming an Eagle Scout. That's quite an acheivement. : )
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
AMomWithHope:
Since I have no license to give medical advice, I can only share what I've read from professional homeopaths and/or give you my opinion.
quote:So, if someone gets bitten or has the tick embedded, takes the homeopathic remedies, what is the next step then? ....... Test the tick and get antibiotics asap or continue on homeopathic meds?
If you are someone who isn't familiar with homeopathic treatment, it might be best to seek help from a conventional doc (get abx as soon as you can, get the tick tested, etc.) If you acquired the Borrelia-b nosode (see the link I posted above), you can still continue with that treatment along with abx. Otherwise, it would be wise to consult with a professional homeopath.
quote:Or does one just take the homeopathic meds with or without a bite after being outdoors just as a preventative?
I've been tempted to simply take the homeopathics as a preventative (without experiencing a bite), but cannot find anything written to support that idea.
I can tell you that one German homeopath states that anyone who suffers more than 3 bites per season (and takes the after-the-bite remedies) should have `stored' enough preventative information in their bodies so that they do NOT have to repeat the procedure for the remainder of the season. Would I trust that entirely? I'm not sure.
quote:How does one know that the homeopathic meds have worked?
You may not know. Just like with preventative antibiotics, if no symptoms develop immediately, there is no way to know. The sooner you treat the bite, the less likely it is that symptoms will develop.
Personally, I would treat ANY bite that I acquired out in the woods. And if there were any signs of infection - beyond what you'd expect from a tiny tick, spider, gnat, or mosquito bite - I'd be tempted to repeat the Ledum/ Hypericum protocol. But that's just me.
quote:I bought some Ledum--not the right potency, so will have to order 200--but have not used it because I'm not certain of how to use this properly, i.e., just one dose or continue and for how long and do you then follow up with doxy?
If you have Ledum 30C, that will work. You just have to take it more often and for longer - I'd do 3 doses the first day, and 2 doses a day for 2 more days after that. I wouldn't try to use any potency lower than a 30C for this protocol unless it was all I had. And in that case, I'd use whatever I had!
If you are going to order one or more remedies anyway, consider ordering from Ainsworths in the UK and ordering the Borrelia-b nosode in 30C (see the After-the-Bite thread). If you have any friends or family who are interested, you could get larger bottles of remedy + extra small (empty) bottles and the cost per person would be greatly reduced.
Again, the doxy question is up to you. You have to do whatever you are most familiar with and comfortable doing.
If you haven't read the After-the-Bite thread already, please do. Bejoy and Brussels have made some helpful suggestions and comments there.
And whatever you do..... don't panic if someone gets a bite. Just use your head, be prepared, and treat any bite homeopathically as soon as humanly possible. Follow up with a good LL doc or an experienced homeopath.
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
I believe we live in a very toxic environment and all the toxicity we absorb daily is weakening our immune systems and damaging our DNA making us more susceptable to disease.
Also, labs are engineering a lot of the diseases we are encountering and they are too potent to fight off.
The very best thing we all can do is to try to stay away from toxins as best as we reasonably can.
For instance, vinegar water and baking soda cleans just about anything and does it as well as chemical cleaners. Try it and see for yourself. Mix 1/2 water and 1/2 white vinegar (the cheap stuff) in a spray bottle. Sprinkle the baking soda direct. It cleans up even tough stove, oven and microwave stains, sink gunk, tubs, etc. The baking soda disolves quickly making it easy to wipe up.
That is just one simple idea that is cheaper too.
Eat a nutritious diet and feed your pets nutritious food. A healthy pet fights off fleas and ticks naturally as does a healthy person.
I love Tracy's information about homeopathy. I plan to purchase some and keep it in my first aid kit.
The Herbal Armor is working very well for me but I have to warn the chemically sensitive. This stuff has a super strong smell. It gives my hubby an instant headache. I only apply it once I am outdoors. The odor dies down quickly but the flies won't come near me and I have horses, so fly bites are a common pain horse lovers have to deal with. Not only do the flies leave me alone, but as long as I am standing by my horse, they leave him alone too.
I have not picked up a tick since I started using this product and I am in tick infested areas. So, seems to be working there also.
Posted by aMomWithHope (Member # 19255) on :
Truthfinder,
Thank you SO much for the explanation. This helps me understand.
I have so/so knowledge regarding homeopathic meds and probably the same amount regarding conventional: mainly because prior to getting Lyme and Co, my family was never sick so we rarely took anything, i.e., abx, over-the-counter, or homeopathic. We don't even do vaccines. On the rare occasion that we have shown signs of a muscle ache or cold or fever etc., we would just pop arnica or belladonna etc.
When my daughter first presented with the headache, we took her to a homeopath that is very well known and respected here in the Boston area, but nothing he gave her helped. We couldn't even pinpoint her constitutional. This was before we knew she had Lyme and Co, so I don't fault him for not being able to help. I probably should bring her back to him now that we are more definite in knowing what she has, etc. Perhaps he can help her now.
I tend to be a bit phobic regarding conventional meds so always felt that homeopathic and alternative treatments were a better fit for my family.
But with Lyme & Co, I've had to change up my viewpoint quite a bit, and we are currently doing the abx route with my daughter, will continue for a bit more, and are hoping this will work.
I do plan on giving the abx a bit more time to work, but also plan on incorporating some herbals, etc. I'm watching her like a hawk in the meantime for any signs of abx stress.
Good to know too that the Ledum 30 will work, and thanks for the info regarding ordering from UK--the more options the better.
I will read the After-the-Bite threat. I know Brussels and Bejoy are very knowledgeable so I'm sure it is very informative.
Thanks again for your help.
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
You are welcome, aMomWH.
Sounds like you are a `home homeopath' like I am. Sorry your daughter wasn't helped by the homeopath, but while I KNOW that homeopathics work, when it comes to treatment, it isn't always easy finding the right remedy at the right time, in the right potency and dose, etc.
I think Lyme & Co. must be a homeopaths worst nightmare when it comes to complexity of illness and symptoms...... which is why I have spent countless hours scouring books and articles trying to glean information about PREVENTION.
Some interesting product ideas here for repelling and killing these nasty ticks, fleas, etc. I found some Herbal Armor at one of the feed stores here last summer, but decided against it for some reason, and now I can't remember what the problem was..... maybe I couldn't use it for everything I wanted.....
Anyway, I was told about a product called CEDARCIDE by a lady in New Hampshire. I looked and looked and couldn't find anything! Well, I was spelling it wrong...(spelled it cedarside).....! I just found it this morning!
The products are natural - made from cedar oil. They have products for everything - people, pets, horses, barns, yards, agricultural ...... I haven't read the whole site yet, but ticks were discussed in some of the testimonials.
I suspect I'll order the Best Yet Kit for $99.95...... but I need to read a bit more...
According to the website, ``BEST YET'' is rated the number one Flea, Bed Bug and Insect killer as published in the recent Neilson Organic Ratings Insect Control Review.
There are some really awful stories about pets dying from stuff like Frontline or Spot Drops..... very frightening. Some of my friends use these.
Cedar just happens to be one of my most favorite smells, too! I guess some people are allergic to cedar and other evergreen oils, so be aware of that. And some animals - like lizards and snakes - could be harmed. So read everything before deciding!
Posted by Amy C (Member # 19297) on :
njgirl14,
I understand this completely! Both my sons have Lyme and so do I. We have been in scouts for about 5 years. My husband and I actually run the local Scout Pack. (I have actually done a few Lyme presentations for the scouts) We have been Cubmaster & Committee Chair for about 4 years. So not camping is out of the question here. LOL
My son and husband are at summer camp as we speak. This is the 1st time they went since we found out about our Lyme. So I was pretty nervous!
But I have taught my son well. He checks himself after going outside to play. I also packed Avon bug spray and told my husband to use it day and night. I didn't get a chance to research any natural products before they went. Though I am looking into them now for next time.
Anyways, I hope they all come home safe and no tick bites!!
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
Some local friends recently told me that they use Bounce dryer sheets to repel mosquitoes and other insects..... I wasn't entirely clear exactly where they put the dryer sheets on their body....
Anybody hear of that one?
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
permethrin on his shoes-i bet he won't see a tick-it doesn't take much-the only thing that works for me and my dog
Posted by mtree (Member # 14305) on :
I think...I could be wrong...but I think you rub the bounce sheets on yourself...
that's what I do for static somtimes...
mtree
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
Oh. Duh. I guess that DOES make a bit more sense, mtree, lol.
Posted by mtree (Member # 14305) on :
too funny.....
now that I think of it....funny if we saw people walking around with bounce sheets on them...
but hey if they keep the bugs away...wrap me up in them....
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
..playing over at a friends house...![[shake]](graemlins/shake.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[confused]](graemlins/confused.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[lol]](graemlins/lol.gif)
too funny.....![[loco]](graemlins/loco.gif)
![[hi]](graemlins/hi.gif)
mtree