In Cure Unknown, Weintraub covers one theory that says antibiotics destroy the spirochetes' ability to replicate. They still exist and cause problems, they just can't reproduce anymore (so abx stop being effective, since abx work during replication).
Eventually, the non-replicating ones die off too, and then I assume one would be home free.
But how long should that take, for the spirochetes to die a natural death?
Posted by Abxnomore (Member # 18936) on :
on page two.......up
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Keebler always said 18 months. Others here say Bb is impossible to destroy. Remission is the only possible outcome (fine with me).
Posted by nenet (Member # 13174) on :
I don't think there is a known lifespan in vivo, and even between different in vitro mediums.
Since they have a cyst form that appears to allow them to go into stasis for very long periods of time, I think it becomes entirely dependent on their environment. Since we can't view the course of a single spirochete as it lives out its days in a human host, we are left to essentially guess.
I think Dr. B. and Pamela Weintraub's theory of pulsing an antibiotic, then stopping to allow the Lyme to come out of cyst form, and then hitting it again, seems to have some merit.
I wonder how effective that method is compared to using a cyst buster, etc.
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Nenet, it's sure of a hell lot safer than cyst busters. Posted by nomoremuscles (Member # 9560) on :
I think nenet is right, in that there is way too little known to be able to say, with any kind of authority, what the lifespan might be.
But regarding the cysts opening: I would bet that, in addition to opening when sensing a safe environemnt, there is some kind of built-in mechanism or clock that tells the cysts to open periodically, perhaps seasonally. Just like the ticks (and many animals (and likely us) have a seasonal cycle, the spirochetes may too. This would help explain seasonal flares.
Posted by bystander (Member # 11893) on :
Thanks all for your ideas on this. I should have known it wouldn't be simple.
seekhelp - at this stage I feel stupid even asking, but what's unsafe about cyst busters?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Cyst busters are very harsh but nothing about lyme treatment is a walk in the park. You want to treat as assertively as possible while also trying to keep the patient feeling as good a possible.
The key to safety with any of this treatment is to always be mindful of the liver and kidneys. Burrascano's nutritional supplement list is a start to that.
Cyst busters have the the key to many who have regained health. Having an excellent LLMD is the master key, though. We need doctors who are up on the lastest research, have various methods for success and have lots of experience.
----
Seekhelp said "Keebler always said 18 months. " I wanted to clarify that.
Life span can mean different things. I pointed to articles that said 6-18 months treatment. That may not mean the life span has been thwarted, though. The borrelia spirochete can be tremendously adaptive and can live on.
The life span of the spirochete can actually be forever unless treated but treatment can take months, years or even decades. Most researchers say a cure is not available and once in the body, it stays in the body. But, we don't know everything yet.
There are many who have had successful treatment and have been well for years - as long as they are mindful to quickly address any symptoms as the pop up. Of those who have succeeded in regaining health (which is almost as good as a cure) my guess is that the excellent self-care measures remain with them.
The cycle (a bit different that span) of the spirochete is something else and that is what really matters so that treatment can work. The way it cycles or goes in and out of L-form / cyst form, etc.
Remember, we learn more everyday so always keep checking. The work Alan MacDonald is doing on biofilm will likely impact all we know about life cycle/span maybe even the hope for an actual cure. We hope.
And, looking back up to the original question, you ask: "But how long should that take, for the spirochetes to die a natural death?"
Well, that is also something the researchers on working on. I can read very little and only snippets. As for what can keep the spirochetes from going of forever, I've seen a few things about that but nothing groundbreaking. We still have a long way to go in that department.
Spirochetes have actually been around since before the Ice Age.
For practical purposes, regaining health (even if having to be mindful of possible flare ups) would be pretty good. It does seem that the flare up get less and less for some.
For more detail beyond the ILADS site ( www.ilads.org ) or the LDA's site, you might look at MacDonald's work. For a start, a Google search of: "Alan MacDonald" biofilm
![[Smile]](smile.gif)