I had a consultation with my doctor about why my illness seems to keep going and going without getting better...
The LLMD got all my tests back and my C4A, CD57, and routine blood tests are all looking normal now and it is believed my lyme is perhaps not "gone" but is under control now.
Problem is...
My Bartonella is just not getting better. My Fry Labs tests show large amounts of biofilm and the bugs are still in the smears after months of IV Levaquin.
I was told that the 'Bio-film' is what is keeping the bartonella protected and the bartonella produces it. The goal is to get rid of the biofilm and treat for the bartonella while taking some antibiotics to keep the lyme down.
Question is: What can I do to punch this biofilm out?
I am doing heparin (I know that is only for fibrin) Boluoke CalciClear PM (has the EDTA in it)
Is there anything else I can do to hurry this along, because what I am doing, is not working.
Posted by Abxnomore (Member # 18936) on :
I'm curious did you LLMD have any ideas about how to approach the bio film?
Posted by Buster (Member # 19472) on :
Just the things I mentioned in the bottom of my post.
I did hear of a LLMD down near Mexico that was doing IV EDTA but there is some thought that you don't want to get rid of the biofilm too quickly because it will release all the bugs too much at once.
I have been doing this stuff for over about 1.5 years now and my Biofilm does not really too look much better although it is a little.
Posted by zil (Member # 12048) on :
About 2 1/2 yrs ago, before being diagnosed with Lyme I started IV EDTA chelation. I took 2 treatments per week. After the first week I was having burning in the bottom of my feet, leg cramps and felt bad. Horrible fatigue. All this progressed to some horrible symptoms of tingling, burning, muscles cramps, terrible neck pain etc. I lasted 11 treatments and stopped. I felt horrible and had lost 10 lbs. I ended up in the hospital with labile B/P's highs and lows. Spiked to 230/120. Never felt so bad in my life. My LLMD said this was a bad herx. I have never been able to find any info on EDTA and biofilm but be careful with it. I've never been the same since. Good Luck.
Posted by massman (Member # 18116) on :
good strong digestive enzymes way before and between meals may digest the films.
Posted by j_liz (Member # 20496) on :
I don't know anything about biofilms, such as are the biofilms of Lyme diff. than those of bart.
My LLMD says bromelain has been shown to be effective on Lyme's biofilms.
liz
edited for Lyme brain error
[ 08-25-2009, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: j_liz ]
Posted by Buster (Member # 19472) on :
quote:Originally posted by massman: good strong digestive enzymes way before and between meals may digest the films.
These biofilms are in the blood.
Posted by Buster (Member # 19472) on :
quote:Originally posted by j_liz: I don't know anything about biofilms, such as are the biofilms of Lyme diff. than those of bart.
My LLMD says bromelain has been shown to be effective on Lyme's biofilms.
Recently, I saw a list of meds used to treat Lyme and what it was effective for and it listed plaquenil as effective for biofilms.
My LLMD has me on both.
liz
Is there any scientific evidence behind the claims for the plaquenil that I can see or that you know of? Seems really weird it would do that if true...
Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
Buster,
Still don't understand why your LLMD doesn't want to give babesia meds a try. The babs tests just aren't that great.
Anyway, I was also thinking that you might want to add an antiviral to your meds. Think you listed multiple viruses which were positive.
As to the biofilm issue -- I am inclined to agree that Plaquenil may have some affect. Also tindamax or flagyl. All of these are supposedly cyst busters I think. Hubby has been having rather strange reactions to tindamax -- similar to his reactions to plaquenil.
Also, think you mentioned low white blood counts. Have you been tested for ehrlichia?
This is not medical advice, just my opinions based on hubby's experiences.
Bea Seibert
Posted by massman (Member # 18116) on :
some of the digestive enzymes taken with no food in digestive tract go into blood. and eat things !
Posted by Pinelady (Member # 18524) on :
I think Coconut oil and vitamin E help to
hit it. I am just stating this because of what I
have read and what it makes me feel like. And if
nothing else is working I would give it a try. But
don't do like I did - 2 tbs. won't hurt me. Ouch.
Posted by Cold Feet (Member # 9882) on :
Ditto on the idea of enyzme therapy. I've been on serrapeptase for 2+ months, and have no doubt it's working for me.
Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :
My doctor has had me on an herbal product called Paracidin by Premier Research Labs since Oct 08. It claims right on the bottle to have a high capacity for biofilm regulation
Posted by j_liz (Member # 20496) on :
Well, it was evident to me yesterday that I am still dealing with Lyme brain pretty much in the memory dept.
I woke up this morning and remembered the plaquenil was listed as a cyst buster on that list.
I am sorry for any confusion I may have caused. This is why I hate posting anything. I can't trust my brain.
liz
Posted by lightparfait (Member # 22022) on :
I have had success with two natural products:
lauracidin/ "Lauracin" (coconut product in capsule form),
Triphalia: an ayurvedic product. Good for biofilms as well as digestive/leaky gut issues.
Added this to my protocols at bedtime or after meals.
Posted by Need Lots of Help (Member # 18603) on :
I read somewhere on this site that guifenesin helps remove biofilms.
Are there "known" products that break down biofilms. Or is this another area where we, as our own advocate, have to get a list of all the products that break down biofilms and try them to see if any of them work for us.
Do different substances break down different biofilms? I also read that the biofilms can contain several things, not just lyme, but fungus and other bacerias??
I will be looking for info on biofilms send them my way, if you find anything else. I have been treating for almost a year, and I think that I may have this issue because I am not one minute better.
Thanks, Shalome
Posted by ninjaphire (Member # 18234) on :
Vitamin K2 (Mk7 and especially Mk4) breaks biofilms, atleast those which depend upon calcium deposition.
It reduces arteriosclerosis, as well as dental plaque, both of which are examples of bodily biofilms.
Posted by gemofnj (Member # 15551) on :
My LLMD recommended BROMELAIN by Pure Encapsulations (which is actually pineapple stem). 2,400 mg a day.
Some people have taken Wobenzyme or Transfer Factor for biofilms.
My LLMD put me on Lumbrokinase, one of the digestive enzymes. I know it works, because after I take it, I get joint pain in about an hour. That's the main herx symptom for me.
I get the nuricology brand of it on line. It's the exact same material that the doctor's get in their office--under another name, and more expensive (I forget what the company is called when it's sold thru the doctor's office).
I'm supposed to take it twice a day, at least an hour after and before eating, and the best way I can do this is to take it when I wake up at night, so I only have to figure out one time how to fit it in during the day.
Posted by Need Lots of Help (Member # 18603) on :
Wow, lots of information. I may never eat celery again, without a microscope to see if it has biofilms!!
But, the article did mention that the Marshall protocal helps eliminate biofilms, but not sure what that protocal is. I will have to check tomorrow.
Good find GEM of NJ.
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
I kinda want to take Lumbro, but am getting fed up spending so much money on supplements. I'm going to cut back on them. I don't see much from them health wise and need to conserve $$$.
Posted by IckyTicky (Member # 21466) on :
There is something I want to try called Allimax that is suppose to work on biofilm. It's stabalized Allicin. Expensive though.
Posted by peter j (Member # 11825) on :
Here's a in-vitro study on another biofilm producing bacteria and EDTA:
Chelator-Induced Dispersal and Killing of Pseudomonas aeruginosa Cells in a Biofilm
By Ehud Banin, Keith M. Brady and E. Peter Greenberg
ABSTRACT:
Biofilms consist of groups of bacteria attached to surfaces and encased in a hydrated polymeric matrix.
Bacteria in biofilms are more resistant to the immune system and to antibiotics than their free-living planktonic counterparts.
Thus, biofilm-related infections are persistent and often show recurrent symptoms.
The metal chelator EDTA is known to have activity against biofilms of gram-positive bacteria such as Staphylococcus aureus.
EDTA can also kill planktonic cells of Proteobacteria like Pseudomonas aeruginosa.
In this study we demonstrate that EDTA is a potent P. aeruginosa biofilm disrupter.
In Tris buffer, EDTA treatment of P. aeruginosa biofilms results in 1,000-fold greater killing than treatment with the P. aeruginosa antibiotic gentamicin.
Furthermore, a combination of EDTA and gentamicin results in complete killing of biofilm cells.
P. aeruginosa biofilms can form structured mushroom-like entities when grown under flow on a glass surface.
Time lapse confocal scanning laser microscopy shows that EDTA causes a dispersal of P. aeruginosa cells from biofilms and killing of biofilm cells within the mushroom-like structures.
An examination of the influence of several divalent cations on the antibiofilm activity of EDTA indicates that magnesium, calcium, and iron protect P. aeruginosa biofilms against EDTA treatment.
Our results are consistent with a mechanism whereby EDTA causes detachment and killing of biofilm cells.
[ 12-09-2016, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posted by daisys (Member # 11802) on :
Wow, No wonder I made such great progress when chelating for mercury and lead. I'm going to make this material available to my LLMD.
Thank you for posting that, Peter J.
Posted by ping (Member # 6974) on :
Hi Buster,
I'm a bit confused about your post. I don't know a thing about Bart biofilms, but Lyme DOES form biofilms, most prominently in the gut.
If you decide to go after Lyme biofilms, you might want to try the green clay w/psyllium husk powder for 6 weeks. Seemed to work pretty well for me; although it'll never get it all.
This protocol can be found on Dr. K.'s website. (I'm not one of his pts, but occasionally find some of his protocols helpful.)
Best to you whatever you decide.
ping "We are more than containers for Lyme"
Posted by MorningSong (Member # 19989) on :
Im still learning, are biofilms and cyst form the same thing?
Posted by Buster (Member # 19472) on :
quote:Originally posted by MorningSong: Im still learning, are biofilms and cyst form the same thing?
The cyst is a lyme spirochete going into a protection mode.
The biofilm is a film that is produced by certain bacteria to help protect them. It's in the blood. My LLMD told me that lyme does not produce biofilm, atleast no where compared to bartonella...
I don't know if it is 100% true or not
Posted by peter j (Member # 11825) on :
I know I have posted this before. And it's also in the link above, but I think it's many who haven't seen it.
The concept of bacteria forming biofilms is not new. Some form it together with other types of bacteria, some do it alone, and some are just 'passengers' in other bateria's biofilm.
But when it comes to lyme, it's not accepted that the bacteria can either produce or hide in biofilms (no surprise).
If we are to kill the bacteria, I think there's three main options (correct me if I am wrong).
*) Get antibiotics into the biofilm (either chosing an antibiotic with good penetration, or using other means. Ultrasound has been used with success to get abx into biofilm in-vitro, but has not been used in clinical practice with humans (as far as I know))
**) Get the bacteria out of the biofilms.
***) Break up the biofilm. E.g. with chelating agents.
But little is known about this, and I believe much of the key to getting well, and staying well, lies here.
Posted by Buster (Member # 19472) on :
I and my doctor believe your last statement as well, peter j.
I have pounded my body with IV and oral antibiotics for well over a year now and my lyme tests are showing normal but my bartonella is still pretty much the same...
Gotta be a way to get through that biofilm... I know rife waves will.
Posted by Buster (Member # 19472) on :
I agree peter j, this biofilm stuff is what is keeping this stuff chronic I believe.
Posted by springshowers (Member # 19863) on :
Do you think IV EDTA would be helpful in breaking up the biofilms and then administer the IV abx right thereafter?
Posted by Buster (Member # 19472) on :
I think it would springshowers but my LLMD thinks it is letting too much bacteria out at once and could be deadly... I plan to talk to him more about it, I have an apt. after labor day.
Posted by lightparfait (Member # 22022) on :
You must eliminate what is causing the biofilm so it does not continue to build up after your efforts of elimination.
Lyme is not the only thing that creates the biofilm.
Removing the biofilm will be an unending cycle until we get at each of our individual bacterial load.
Some of us learn over time of other problems causing the bacteria along with the lyme.
For example, I have parasites that were never picked up on my stool test from my llmd.
doing a parasite cleanse and colon cleanse helped me get my bacterial load down, as loads of virus and bacteria live in the parasites and are released during their life cycle. Adding to the biofilm load!
Just an example of other things we individually need to look into when trying to remove biofilms. Remember lyme never lives alone in our bodies. It is never just lyme...lyme got your attention and is helping us all learn about our bodies!
lp
Posted by peter j (Member # 11825) on :
springshowers, yes I think EDTA + abx could be the solution. I think they're doing it in a clinic in Arizona. I don't have experience with it myself, but I'd give it a try.
If anyone can find that post about the fry smear, which was about someone at their office suspecting that another bacteria was creating the biofilm (alone or with borrelia, I don't remember), then please post a link to it.
Posted by MarsyNY (Member # 7766) on :
Buster, does the f slide show these biofilms? or is it stated on the report? My friend who recently saw him said that there is a new test that shows all the bacteria at once in the biofilm?
I did EDTA years ago before the lyme diagnosis, it took a long time to recover- lost my hair for a year as well. What about eliminating taking any mineral supplements since the magnesium, calcium and iron help the biofilm to survive? Seems easier than chelating these same minerals with EDTA. As with any herxheimer mop-ups are needed.
Patients of Dr. F maybe could add something here, as far as I know, no magnesium, adds lysine, arginine promotes growth, and there are also dietary restrictions pertaining to that.
The fibrinolytics seem important here.
What about Grapefruit Seed Extract or is that only a cyst buster?
Posted by brentb (Member # 6899) on :
So far I'm having positive results with my DMSO and MMS protocol. There's no doubt that the DMSO does in fact get the MMS into your system. I'm still playing around with the right amount so as to not get sick. Very tricky.
That said, my infection is a biofilm buildup between my skin and bone. The application goes directly to the infection. Whether this provides deep in vivo penetration I can't say for sure.
Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
Someone mentioned vitamin K for biofilm. Find that very interesting. Hubby just recently had a bone density test which showed very bad osteoporosis.
We suspected this since a chiropractor broke his rib in January doing a routine adjustment.
I think it is actually a deficiency of calcium rather than an excess of calcium which might contribute to biofilm formation. Both Vitamin K and Vitamin D are needed to absorb calcium.
Anyway, hubby has a history of kidney stones and calcium depositis in various parts of his body. In his prostrate once and even in the aorta (in his heart). He is only 54.
We have neglected taking calcium supplements for the last few years -- seems like there is never enough dollars to buy all the supplements and herbs we need every month.
Based on prior research on kidney stones I know that it is a deficiency of calcium that actually causes the stones to form.
Hubby has an intolerance to casein (milk protein) so doesn't get a lot of calcium in his diet.
If the diet is deficicient in calcium the body pulls it out of the bones and I would guess bartonella or whatever the mystery bacteria is is grabbing onto the calcium.
My plans are to start hubby on both calcium and magnesium supplements again -- need to take both to balance mineral levels.
Also plan to continue on lumbrokinase and the small doses of oral EDTA he is taking.
BrentB -- I actually gave hubby prescription IV DMSO while using IV Rocephin years ago (per docs instructions).
Hubby was so sick at that time I have no idea if the DMSO did anything for biofilms. Hubby smelled like sweet corn all the time from the DMSO.
Have used DMSO topically from time to time and do believe it helps the body absorb various things. Worked very well with topical St John's Wort oil for pain.
This is not medical advice, just my opinion based on hubby's experiences.
Bea Seibert
(breaking up the post for easier reading)
[ 12-09-2016, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]
Posted by coltman (Member # 21272) on :
quote: *) Get antibiotics into the biofilm (either chosing an antibiotic with good penetration, or using other means. Ultrasound has been used with success to get abx into biofilm in-vitro, but has not been used in clinical practice with humans (as far as I know))
It makes me so mad that such promising treatments are not investigated and not invested in .Instead money go to ducks at IDSA/CDC/NIH
Posted by ninjaphire (Member # 18234) on :
quote:Originally posted by seibertneurolyme: Someone mentioned vitamin K for biofilm. Find that very interesting. Hubby just recently had a bone density test which showed very bad osteoporosis. We suspected this since a chiropractor broke his rib in January doing a routine adjustment.
I think it is actually a deficiency of calcium rather than an excess of calcium which might contribute to biofilm formation. Both Vitamin K and Vitamin D are needed to absorb calcium.
Anyway, hubby has a history of kidney stones and calcium depositis in various parts of his body. In his prostrate once and even in the aorta (in his heart). He is only 54. We have neglected taking calcium supplements for the last few years -- seems like there is never enough dollars to buy all the supplements and herbs we need every month.
Bea Seibert
Vit K2 MK-4 form is actually used as a treatment for osteoporosis in Japan. Might be worth trying for your husband.
National Center for Geriatrics and Gerontology, Department of Advanced Medicine.
Menatetrenone (MK-4) is a form of vitamin K(2) (VK(2)) which is utilized for the treatment of osteoporosis. MK4 has a grade B as a total recommendation rate in the Japanese guideline for the prevention and treatment of osteoporosis in 2006 based on the current clinical evidences. The effects of fracture prevention by MK-4 are assumed to be based on the increase of bone mineral density as well as the improvement of bone quality. Recent researches suggest that VK affects bone metabolism via nuclear receptor in addition to the carboxylation of VK dependent proteins.
Vitamin K2 (menatetrenone) effectively prevents fractures and sustains lumbar bone mineral density in osteoporosis.
There's lots of results if you search for menatetrenone+osteoporosis in pubmed.
Posted by MarsyNY (Member # 7766) on :
Bea,
When calcium and iron were added to the EDTA treatments it blocked the killing of biofilms. All the biofilm studies state that magnesium, calcium and iron are necessary for maintenance.. see Peters article as well above. The chelation of these metals is making it impossible for the biofilms to survive. Maybe they can be added later. I just wanted to let you know since you were thinking about adding calcium and magnesium.
"From Journal of Bacteriology"
The iron-chelation activity of human lactoferrin can also diminish P. aeruginosa biofilm formation, and it has been suggested that this may play a role in limiting infection (46). Recently, it was demonstrated that the broad-specificity divalent cation chelator EDTA causes biofilm dispersal and cell death in P. aeruginosa biofilms (5). The addition of iron, calcium, or magnesium protected against EDTA-mediated killing, suggesting that these metals are critical for biofilm maintenance
Posted by mv (Member # 21888) on :
My son did calcium EDTA and antibiotic and he did very well on it. We're a month out from completion and he's doing great. Of course time will continue to tell just how effective it was.
Posted by mv (Member # 21888) on :
Buster, rife was recommended to us to as a follow up procedure, but I'm scared to try it since so much is "see how you feel." That's scary for a parent to try on a child. Any thoughts or input from your experience would be helpful.
Posted by peter j (Member # 11825) on :
coltman, thanks for the info. I haven't hear of that before.
MarsyNY. Could you post more about magnesium, iron etc and biofilms?
I take multivitamins with all the trace-elements mentioned. Not sure if I should
Posted by MarsyNY (Member # 7766) on :
peterj, some links on the calcium/magnesium/iron influence on Biofilms.
[ 08-30-2009, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: MarsyNY ]
Posted by ninjaphire (Member # 18234) on :
Also, IP6 Does a good job of chelating Iron, If you're concerned about excess Iron.
Posted by springshowers (Member # 19863) on :
I have test results from Fry Lab showing the biofilm and my understanding is that there may be various infections residing there.
I am looking into the EDTA IV treatments along with other things and then hitting it up with abx of various kinds too.
GLad to hear MV's child is doing well after such treatment.
There could be something to this..
Posted by GraceT (Member # 16558) on :
MV - I Rife for biofilm at least twice per week. Sometimes more. I see Dr. F and numerous others here in the Phoenix valley, including one biofeedback therapist who's been most helpful.
Yes, I do have a Fry Lab photograph of biofilm in my blood. No, Dr. F did not start me on anything for it. I deal with high Candida load and cannot take antiobiotics.
I have used a Rife since August 2008 with success. The Bionic 880, however, is what cleared my Borellia. I have been tested several times since returning from Germany March 2009 - clear so far. However, given enough time the Rife should work. I know it works, but did not want to wait to clear my Borellia.
Rifing: The nice thing is you control the level of herx based on how long it is used per day.
Per Rosner's book, Alkaseltzer Gold helps with my herxing,and use 10 mg Vit C powder in water or juice if I think my herx might be a hefty one. This gives my bile a dumping and my body also absorbs some of the 'C'. Learned this from Rosner's book also.
I use use green bentonite clay + apple pectin as an alternative.
BIOFILM RIFE CODES:
Blood Parasite: 64, 784 Bone Disease Periodental: 49.5, 1800, 1600 Dental Jawbone: 727, 500, 190, 728 Dental Foci: 666, 650, 646, 600, 465, 784, 690, 47.5, 95, 190, 800, 880, 1560, 1840, 1998, 2489 Erysipelas(acute strep inflammation): 20, 465, 727, 880, 1787, 10000, 660, 776, 735, 845, 616, Enteroccocus: 686, 409 Benign Tumors: 1, 11, 10, 10.2, 10.4, 10.6, 10.8 External Biofilm: 190, 200, 465, 727, 787, 880, 10000 There are sure to be others. This is all that I have learned to-date.
All of these codes can be found on the Cross Reference list of CAFL frequencies: www.electroherbalism.com - The original cross reference list of the CAFL was produced by Stone Circle Alternatives in the late 1990's.
To Your Better Health ~ Grace
Posted by mikej2323 (Member # 8913) on :
Posted this a few weeks ago- didn't get too many responses though...not sure why. I find it very interesting:
"The Transition Metal Gallium Disrupts Pseudomonas aeruginosa Iron Metabolism and has Antimicrobial and Antibiofilm Activity"
Yukihiro Kaneko1, Matthew Thoendel2, Oyebode Olakanmi3, Bradley E. Britigan3,4 and Pradeep K. Singh1
1Departments of Medicine and Microbiology, University of Washington School of Medicine, Seattle, Washington, USA. 2Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine, University of Iowa, Iowa City, Iowa, USA. 3Department of Internal Medicine, University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati, Ohio, USA. 4Cincinnati VA Medical Center, Cincinnati, Ohio, USA.
First published March 15, 2007 Received for publication October 28, 2006, and accepted in revised form January 23, 2007.
A novel antiinfective approach is to exploit stresses already imposed on invading organisms by the in vivo environment.
Fe metabolism is a key vulnerability of infecting bacteria because organisms require Fe for growth, and it is critical in the pathogenesis of infections.
Furthermore, humans have evolved potent Fe-withholding mechanisms that can block acute infection, prevent biofilm formation leading to chronic infection, and starve bacteria that succeed in infecting the host.
Here we investigate a ``Trojan horse'' strategy that uses the transition metal gallium to disrupt bacterial Fe metabolism and exploit the Fe stress of in vivo environments. Due to its chemical similarity to Fe, Ga can substitute for Fe in many biologic systems and inhibit Fe-dependent processes.
We found that Ga inhibits Pseudomonas aeruginosa growth and biofilm formation and kills planktonic and biofilm bacteria in vitro.
Ga works in part by decreasing bacterial Fe uptake and by interfering with Fe signaling by the transcriptional regulator pvdS.
We also show that Ga is effective in 2 murine lung infection models. These data, along with the fact that Ga is FDA approved (for i.v. administration) and there is the dearth of new antibiotics in development, make Ga a potentially promising new therapeutic for P. aeruginosa infections.
Ga is??
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
The reason LEDs might be so effective is the use of gallium in the production process. So LEDs are coated with gallium and when the LEDs are excited molecules of gallium are sent into the body. At this point, it is a matter of penetration and getting the gallium deeper into the body.
Posted by GraceT (Member # 16558) on :
It stands for Gallium. It is used in the semiconductor industry.
However, for our bodies -- Gallium is not known to be essential in biology, but because of the biological handling of gallium's primary ionic salt Ga(III) as though it were iron(III), gallium ion localizes to and interacts with many processes in the body in which iron(III) is manipulated. As these processes include inflammation, which is present as a marker for many disease states, several gallium salts are used, or are in development, as both pharmaceuticals and radiopharmaceuticals in medicine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium Posted by MY3BOYS (Member # 17830) on :
((((( Bea))))))))))))))
your mailbox is full sweetie
so- will post this for you here in case you come back on ur hubby-- has parathyroid been checked ,esp recently??? the stones, osteo, even build up sent up my nurse radar... ....sounds like could be part of what is going on anyway
biofilms --- i am trying to learn about this in lymeworld...this is not new info to wound care specialists. wounds that are chronic are do to bio-films and new products have been found effective to break them up
however- wiht wound care you are talking topical use/treatment not internal. even this is newer discovery/use in health care and chorinc wound care has been an issue for YEARS. that said, i cant imagine how long would take for things to be figured out (talking with science to back it here, dont shoot me ) for lyme and family
interesting thoughts.
Posted by Healing in Santa Cruz (Member # 7798) on :
Dr K is using French Green Clay and Bio Sil Silica for gut biofilms.I bought Bio Sil silica at health food store and ordering FGC from Bio Pure Pm me if anyone wants directions and check with your MD.
Posted by springshowers (Member # 19863) on :
MD Where and what kind of LED is the best ones to be looking at? Can you send me something? THANKS
Posted by Buster (Member # 19472) on :
Is there anything that dentists are using that eliminate plaque really well? I know plaque is biofilm and any/all dentists will tell you that...
One dentists I know like the gum with xylitol in it, maybe xylitol would help? I have heard it is a sweetener.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
The best way to care of plaque is a two pronged approach. Doing the oil pool technique (do a search for it there is much written about it). Triphala does an excellent job IMO of getting rid of biofilm / plaque in the mouth (again do a search for it). You may want to see a dentist who has expertise in cleaning cavitations and root canals. If you can find a dentist who uses ozone it will get rid of the biofilm as well as correcting issues in the cavitations.
Cavitations are holes in the teath usually from wisdom teeth that were removed.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Do Amylase and Bromelain dissolve biofilms?
Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
....sounds like could be part of what is going on anyway