I really haven't researched it at all & I'm wondering what the whole concept is behind it & how it is supposed to actually kill of spirochetes.
Is it also supposed to be effective against other organisms?
I'm sure there are others who have already looked into this because I know I've seen in mentioned here before.
I think I may have read something on it but didn't quite "get" it.
I may not have looked into it because it was something that I would have had to buy instructions & all the parts for & then build myself & that just seemed like more than I could tackle at the time. Maybe it was too expensive for something that I was unsure of?
I'm not sure why I decided not to learn about it but I'm curious now & would appreciate any info anyone can give me.
Thanks in advance! Ali
Posted by coltman (Member # 21272) on :
As far as I understand it works by inducing resonance in bacteria. At least that the only possible explanation for me which has some basis in reality (but there are very many if's and but's)
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- As coltman says, it is based on resonance, a radio frequency. With each bacteria or virus vibrating at a particular resonance, if the rife can match that, it affects the bacteria or virus.
It's best to get the book if interested. Some support groups may be able to loan a copy.
RIFE machine - with lyme and TBD (tick-borne disease).
You can also search You Tube for "Rosner, rife" or "Rosner, lyme" There are many video presentations. .
Posted by losferwrds (Member # 19741) on :
If it worked forums like this would not exist.
Don't waste your money on rosners book all the info in it can be found on pro rife sites, he just organizes the info into chapters, gives links to sites and gives a chapter of testimonials. Alot like the best selling Trudeau cures they don't want you to know about book.
If you read his chapter on ABX he explains why abx don't work, so no one has ever been cured by ilads or idsa protocols, so if rife is the answer you should see it mentioned alot in the success story section right?
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
The video in the link give a real time demonstration of how it works.
It's easy to rife and not expensive. I got mine for $440. All I have to do is sit in front of it!!! I credit it with keeping me off abx for the past 4 yrs. I'm now on 5 yrs being off of them.
Research Royal Rife.
I loved Bryan's book. It's very informative.
You can buy it at www.lymebook.com Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
I think there are a number of theories as to how it works.
http://www.atlantishealthcenters.com/rife-faq.htm Some believe that it is not the resonance, but electrochemical changes in cell membranes which affect their pumping mechanisms. Some believe that other factors produced by the frequency machines, such as electromagnetism, soundwaves, and light also play a role.
Most modern pieces of Rife equipment use harmonics {multiples} of the frequencies displayed on their screen {including the frequencies Rife discovered}, because the wavelength is thought to be too long to be beneficial.
http://www.dfe.net/What-is-Rife.html The basics of a "Rife" machine are simple: An argon or helium plasma tube, excited by some form of high voltage, is modulated by audio modulations.
Many theorize that it is the extremely high-harmonics of those modulations that, in some way, disrupts the cellular structure of various pathogens.
Probably more out there but this is from the first few links of a google search.
Terry
Posted by losferwrds (Member # 19741) on :
Its one thing to test in vitro ie the the so called proof that comes from unidentified videos with no source..
Where are the in vivo tests??
I can expose a test tube to air and kill pathogens, its another thing to do it inside the human body.
Where is the in vivo proof, papers, peer reviews, there is no conspiracy, regardless of what you say researchers get their money from grants, they give a plausible argument to cure a disease, they get money, Jonas Salk patented nothing, a cure worth billions and did not get rich, there are healers out there and charlatans, the healers have scientific proof not in vitro u-tube vids.
And I can tell you those pathogens in the vids are NOT SPIROCHETES, THEY ARE NOT EVEN IDENTIFIED, the frequency or machine producing the frequencies are not identified either.
You leave gold fish in a bowl of dirty water they all die too, it proves NOTHING.
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
los wrote: so if rife is the answer you should see it mentioned alot in the success story section right?
Actually there have been a number of posts here from members who credit their recovery to rife. I don't know if they are included in the success thread.
Sorry, forgot to put titles in except for the last one.
Gotta go fix dinner. There is one in particular that I wanted to find but can't find it so far. I may come back later and post more.
Terry
Posted by catskillmamala (Member # 12536) on :
Find me the lyme patient who used rife regularly over a few months and did NOT improve.
I've been rifing weekly post IV and I think it is helping me maintain for the last year. I also have had MDs tell me directly that rife works.
I think it works. It makes me herx. I did not like Rosner's book particularly and found other resources for frequencies, etc.
Posted by losferwrds (Member # 19741) on :
Sorry testimonials prove nada, all the threads always lead to recommendations of machines to buy, and only Mr Bachman knows how many PMs are generated of where to buy the machines behind the scenes.
You see the same players over and over in these threads as well.
Post some real science Please.
Explain one "proof" video in detail, the machine being used, the pathogen being killed the frequency being used, the medium the pathogen is in.
Provide a link to one of those green screen vids, provide the lab, the scientist, the rife machine model ,the pathogen, the medium, the frequency etc, you mean to say someone went to the trouble to make the vid and has no notes????????
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
los - you've made your position clear here and in a past post that was deleted because it got nasty.
I do not believe you will find the type of "proof" you are looking for unless you finance it yourself.
There are other forums that are more into the the science behind rife. Perhaps you would get the battle you are looking for there.
Terry
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
I see that a few people feel they've been receiving beneficial results by using Rife. I haven't read the threads yet because I was trying to find an explanation of how it actually works.
I haven't gotten there yet because I keep getting side-tracked. Apparently there's been a lot of discussion about Rife over the last 60 years or so.
The only device I saw any research listed for was the Electrical-stimulator.
Isn't there some way they can get some studies done on this stuff? I would think they'd be able to help more people if they'd conduct some structured studies.
I realize that all interest was lost in Rife until 1987 when people began marketing it for cancer, but still 20 years later...you think they'd do some studies.
Why wouldn't the people who are marketing newer versions of these diseases want to get FDA approval & market them with rightful medical claims instead of just putting all the disclaimers on everything to keep the FDA from bothering them?
I could see if it was something someone had just discovered, but they dropped it as a "cure for all diseases" in 1950.
Couldn't someone else become famous for actually proving his theory? Couldn't they tweek it a little bit & patent their own concept?
I'm not saying that I don't believe it's helping people, I'm just trying to figure out why they don't have anything published in any journals (except one reference which was rather dismissive & really wasn't flattering).
Perhaps it works for some people, but not enough to generate excitement from a study?
I didn't realize people were actually marketing machines. I thought you had to buy the plans & make your own.
I'd like to know how many of those who've tried it felt it was helpful & to what degree vs how many felt they received no benefit at all.
I wonder if we could do something like that with all of the different therapies. Wouldn't that be great?!!
Unfortunately, it might turn out unfairly biased toward the negative because a lot of people who regain their health leave here & wouldn't be around to participate.
Of course if an equal number just gave up trying & stopped posting here for that reason, it WOULD be balanced. (That was morbid, I wish that thought never entered my mind. )
I wonder if it would be easier to take a poll than go back & read through what might be a bunch of people being hurtful to each other, if the feelings I perceive in THIS brief thread are any indicator.
I really didn't mean to open a can of worms. I really appreciate EVERYONE'S thoughts, opinions & sharing of personal experiences.
I would hope that we could try to be kind, even in disagreement, because we are ALL just trying to get well and no one needs the stress of a nasty argument.
I wonder how long people have actually been using this for Lyme. Do they have different frequencies for Lyme & cancer?
I wonder if Jazz music hits on any of the Lyme frequencies. I seem to recall having felt a bit better a while back when I had a headset on most of the day & was listening to Jazz.
I don't know which came first the relapse or stopping that practice. I suspect it was the relapse, but I can't be completely sure.
Hmmm....where did I put that walkman? Now THAT would be AWESOME if you could kill ketes with a radio!!!!! I just might try that again.
I still want to try to understand how Rife is actually supposed to be impacting our cells though.
Posted by JR (Member # 16898) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: It's easy to rife and not expensive. I got mine for $440. All I have to do is sit in front of it!!! I credit it with keeping me off abx for the past 4 yrs. I'm now on 5 yrs being off of them.
$440 IS a lot of money. I have been off antibiotics now for over two years and holding up well even with the stresses in my life. Since when did Rosner dethrone our LLMDs?
Posted by JR (Member # 16898) on :
This was posted on Bryan's own website:
[It is important to understand that rife machines are experimental and not FDA approved, and consequently, there does not presently exist a reliable and safe protocol for their use.]
re-read the last sentence.NO safe or reliable protocol to use them!!
Now also read this from Rosner himself: [Bryan Rosner does not suggest that anyone else use rife machines. ] and this
[it is against the law for him to offer medical advice to anyone, which includes advice about purchasing rife machines, whether by phone, email, or other means of communication. While Bryan can share his opinion in the form of printed books and DVDs, he cannot answer questions from specific individuals pertaining to the use or purchase of rife machines.]
How to make money and keep your nose clean when the shirt hits the fan.
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
AliG - There have many difficult discussions about rife here for years. Lots of misunderstandings about what it is and what it isn't.
Even a technical discussion by someone who made a number of mistakes in some of his basic assumptions. This caused no end of misconceptions.
Music has it's own healing abilty, there are books about it. Rife is electro-magnetic. They are not the same.
AliG wrote: I wonder how long people have actually been using this for Lyme.
I don't know the answer to that.
AliG wrote: Do they have different frequencies for Lyme & cancer?
I believe there are studies going on in the world, just not in the U.S.. When I used to read the rife list, there was a scientist poster who left the U.S. to go to China due to harrassment he was getting from U.S. authorities. He appeared to be working on some rife research which he claimed was the source of his harrassment.
Can't go into more detail because I don't know much more than that and don't have a need to know more for myself. I have my hands full with other research and the question of whether it works or not is settled for me. I'm happy to say that it helps me.
In my area, there is a non-profit group who provides rife machine use for free for people who want to try it out or for those who can't get one for themselves. They do it because they credit rife with saving their daughter's life.
Perhaps something like that exists in your neck of the woods? This place does not advertise. They fly under the radar for fear of getting into trouble. Similar to LLMD's in some respects. You might have to ask around in a rife group for a way to try it out before you decide whether you want to buy one or not.
For those who want proof that it is effective in the form of double blind studies, it doesn't exist as far as I know.
As you no doubt know, just because there is supposed "proof" in the form of a double blind study doesn't mean that it is real. Lots of double blind studies (including lyme - see Allison Delong presentation from the IDSA hearing) are misconstrued or designed specifically to support a certain position. I've seen it many times. It's been in the news many times.
Terry
[ 10-03-2009, 03:01 AM: Message edited by: TerryK ]
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
JR wrote: $440 IS a lot of money.
Yes it is. I spend more than that on travel to see my LLMD for one appointment. It's all relative.
JR wrote: I have been off antibiotics now for over two years and holding up well even with the stresses in my life.
That's wonderful!!! Unfortunately not everyone is so lucky.
JR wrote: Since when did Rosner dethrone our LLMDs?
I don't think anyone is saying anything like that. Rife is another tool. You don't need Rosner to learn about rife or to use rife. The info is freely available to anyone who is interested.
There are people who sell rife machines and frankly I'm glad they do. There are many people who wouldn't know how to make a rife machine or who are too sick to do it themselves.
Terry
Posted by JamesNYC (Member # 15793) on :
AliG you wrote:
quote: ...and I can't help but wonder why there's been no scientific research done on this.
Isn't there some way they can get some studies done on this stuff? I would think they'd be able to help more people if they'd conduct some structured studies.
...but still 20 years later...you think they'd do some studies.
Uhhh, I think the answer to your question is self evident. Why do you wonder?
James
Posted by JR (Member # 16898) on :
AliG- If you value your health-then wait another twenty years before doing rife-and maybe by then you will have the scientific research to back it up-then again-maybe not.
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
TerryK - "Rife is electro-magnetic"
So the premise of how it would have an impact on the cells of the body would be similar to MRI, though MRI also utilizes radio frequency pulses for imaging.
This makes me wonder, since the very strong magnet of the MRI can realign the nuclei of our cells and is considered "safe", would repeated MRIs have any impact on infected cells?
I know I feel really messed up when I come out of an MRI but I assume it's because I'm claustrophobic.
How often are you supposed to use Rife? I would imagine that it must be fairly often if it's a weak magnetic field.
It's different magnetic frequencies, not radio frequencies?
I'm also wondering if the person who actually developed MRI technology would not have utilized this to cure his own cancer if it can cause our bodies to recognize diseased cells. I wish Chase were still around, I'll bet he could have cleared up a lot of my questions.
I'm going to read more on MRI (there's a LOT of info there) and see if I can better grasp this.
Note: I'm asking about Rife because I saw it mentioned in another thread & I know I've seen it mentioned on here quite a bit over the years, I've just never personally taken the time to investigate & understand it.
I had previously dismissed it because I thought that it was what the little gizmos my uncle made for my family members many, many years ago. It was a little box with two wires, a 9 volt battery & I have no idea what else.
You were supposed to turn the thing on, moisten your hands and hold the things attached to the wires. I don't recall for how long. I probably still have one around the house here somewhere.
I wish he were still around so I could ask him whether it was constructed based on some Rife plans or something. It's not adjustable, so even if it was it probably would have been a cancer frequency.
I remember he said it was supposed to get rid of whatever bugs you might have in your system.
I know they say that MRIs & Rife are "believed to be safe", but I can't help but wonder if repeatedly disrupting an healthy cells with strong magnetical impulses couldn't somehow negatively impact them or weaken them over a long time.
I know, I'm paranoid. I just like to consider all possibilities and try to weigh their potential to be helpful against possible potential for harm.
I am a chicken & would hate to do something only to find out that I somehow CAUSED myself to lose my battle with disease.
Is Rife something you have to do for a very long time or do you gradually decrease how often you need to do it?
OK, I just looked at the frequencies & I'm beyond confused by that.
A lot of the listed frequencies are for specific symptoms that may be caused by Lyme, yet the frequencies for Lyme are different & theres a zillion (exaggeration) Lyme frequencies.
Do you have to use EVERY different frequency? How much time does a person have to spend doing this? It seems like it might be a very time consuming process.
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
JR -
Knowledge is power. The more I know about every possible treatment, the better my chances of getting & REMAINING well again.
I'm following the course that has made sense to me, but that doesn't mean I can't/shouldn't investigate what others have said THEY'VE found to be helpful.
Some people say they feel this helps them & I'd like to understand it. I think I'm doing the right thing right now, but I can't be certain.
I like to keep my options open & not wait until I can't think to try to figure out what makes sense to me & what doesn't. I don't like to make decisions in full brain-fog.
Just because I'm investigating this, doesn't mean I'm making a decision right now whether to run out & try Rife. It just means I'm trying to gain knowledge.
Please don't feel like you need to warn me off of this. I do not make uneducated treatment decisions solely based on the recommendations of people I do not really know.
I acknowledged that there are no studies. I am aware of it. I'm thinking that perhaps if I understand how it's actually supposed to be effective, I might understand why there are no studies.
Would you like to tell me what you feel has helped YOU get well & remain well for 2 years off of abx, since you are apparently not a proponent of Rife? Have you been doing anything special to remain symptom-free?
Maybe I'll investigate that next, if I haven't already. I love information.
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
It's all a guessing game when we have to identify ALL the pathogens in our bodies from these vector illnesses + life toxic build-up.
A very high precentage of us are using rife for lyme but......If I'm also loaded down with a long list of unknowns, just addressing lyme isn't going to "cure" us.
The major problem is, if you knock out some lyme bacteria load then bart takes over. If you knock bart down a step or two, then babs becomes dominant.
Then staph jumps to attention. Then 2-4 viruses you don't know take over. Years down the road you can't figure out where strep come from?
Not to mention the totally gross thought of all the those nasty vector inflicted parasites that have been growing and multipling in our body. Now which parasite do I use my frequency machine for?
Sooooo many unknowns. But I still consider the money I spent on my rife machine to be the best money I've spent in this 10 yr illness from hell.
Pam
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
How do you know it's working? Do you feel better/worse right away or at a specific length of time following a treatment?
Do you feel something happening WHILE you're doing it that lets you know you're hitting the right frequency?
I found the thing my uncle made in my "travels". It's a "Zapper" based on Hulda Clark's info.
It's supposed to target ALL the different pathogens because it works on a square-wave which hits all the different frequencies. It works on the same "vibrational" premise that I still don't fully understand.
I was just thinking about looking for it since it's less complicated & I could try it for free.
I don't know if it might help the abx penetrate more deeply or something. I think that's what the Zapper info said.
I DO suspect that it's not so effective on its own for cancer though because that's what took my uncle, lung cancer metastasized to his brain and that was a lot of years after he made those Zappers.
I hope it couldn't somehow have caused it. Crud, I just freaked myself out. I hate when that happens. Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
AliG - I don't consider your concerns paranoid. It's important to understand the risks of any treatment. You are to be commended for being open minded enough to earnestly ask questions.
AliG wrote: So the premise of how it would have an impact on the cells of the body would be similar to MRI, though MRI also utilizes radio frequency pulses for imaging.
I wrote down exactly what my husband (an electrical engineer) told me about this part of your question.
"No, an MRI applies a high strength magnetic field to the body forcing the atoms to line up with the magnetic field. When the field is released the atoms emit energy that can be picked up by the scanner, providing an image. It's an imaging device not a treament."
"Rife does not apply a high strength magnetic field. It applies a low strength electro-magnetic wave of variable frequency. The mechanism of how this provides treatment is not well understood."
The description you give of the box with the handles sounds like a zapper. It is different than a rife machine. The zapper passes a very small electrical current through your body via the handles.
My husband built one for me for treatment of parasites. I used it everyday for a year and the only thing it seemed to help with is keeping colds down. Now, if I start to get a cold I use it and I can often keep from getting the full on cold. My husband uses it too.
AliG How often are you supposed to use Rife?
Unfortunately Rife treatment is no different than antibiotic treatment when it comes to determining the right protocol for an individual.
Most people seem to start out VERY slow (I think that is wise), using various frequencies based on their diagnosis, symptoms and guessing. The gamut of responses is likely similar to antibiotic or herbal treatments. It varies greatly. Lots of parameters, tweaking one a little can change the outcome.
As you know, there are no studies regarding the safety of a rife machine. I know of no strong anectdotal evidence that suggests a rife machine is dangerous to use. Long term use is an unknown.
I have heard concerns that using a contact machine with a pacemaker or for someone with heart issues could be a concern but I know of no one with personal experience or of any logic behind that assumption. I would not use a contact machine if I had a pacemaker though. Just does not seem like a good idea.
I can use my EMEM rife with or without a contact, meaning I can sit in front of the machine and let the machine affect me that way or I can use a plate and handles to allow the frequencies to pass through my body. My husband said he thinks this works like a zapper but he has not seen schematics or anything definitive about how it works so that is a guess.
I think you would be wise to join one of the many rife groups to ask questions of others who are experienced rife users.
Terry
Posted by twingirl (Member # 13172) on :
I get the same herxheimer reactions when I rife that I did while on antibiotics. I used my rife for lyme and coinfections for over a year. I recently went back on abx to target bartonella because I feel the rife didn't do an adequate job for bart, but it seems to work for everything else.
I had the best 5 months in the last 4 years while I was rifing. I know that it kills yeast because I can see it retreating on my tongue. It also works for lympth node drainage. I used to pay $60 a pop for lympth massage, now I use my rife.
My rife machine has paid for itself over again. Just without the copays for a year and the supps I was using for yeast paid for the machine, not to mention the lympth drainage.
Even though I'm on abx, I am still rifing for yeast, lympth drainage and heart palps. I love my rife machine.
It also works on parasites. I have seen the proof of that as well.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by JR: $440 IS a lot of money. I have been off antibiotics now for over two years and holding up well even with the stresses in my life. Since when did Rosner dethrone our LLMDs? [/QB]
It was a chunk for me at the time, but it's nothing compared to all the money that we spend on our drs and our meds over several years.
It has been VERY cost effective for me and helped me stay off abx. That is priceless to me.
My LLMD is smarter than Bryan, but he does believe in Rife.
$440 is way better than the thousands that some of these machines cost, so that is another reason I said it was not expensive.
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
Took me a long time to compose my last post because I was doing other things too so I'l respond to some of your questions.
AliG wrote: It works on the same "vibrational" premise that I still don't fully understand.
No, it doesn't. It is an electrical current.
AliG wrote: I don't know if it might help the abx penetrate more deeply or something. I think that's what the Zapper info said.
Never heard that and don't know. I would be interested in hearing the theory behind how that would work.
AliG wrote: I DO suspect that it's not so effective on its own for cancer though because that's what took my uncle, lung cancer metastasized to his brain and that was a lot of years after he made those Zappers.
Sorry to hear about your Uncle. I agree, this would not be effective on it's own for cancer. Hulda Clark details in her books what needs to be done and it is pretty extensive. Includes ridding your house and garage of contaminates and many other things.
The zapper *might* help with cancer but I certainly would not count on only the zapper for treatment. From what you've said about your Uncle, seems like he was open minded and would have looked at more than one avenue of treatment.
AliG wrote: I hope it couldn't somehow have caused it. Crud, I just freaked myself out. I hate when that happens.
Personally, I think cancer is caused by more than one thing for the most part. Genetics (methylation cycle issues and other genetic issues) for certain types of cancers, viruses can be behind some cancers, mold exposure, radon, chemical exposure etc. etc..
An infinite number of things could be contributing factors to cancer, including a zapper but it seems unlikely that a zapper would be a cause in and of itself. I don't know if it would contribute at all but anything is possible.
My aunt just died. She had colon cancer but it was in remission. She was quite ill from the chemotherapy and as far as we can tell, it was the chemotherapy that killed her.
Some of the methylation cycle mutations that I have greatly increase my chances of colon cancer. hmmm.... think I better be checked for polyps.
Terry
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
To answer the "how often" question depends on where you are at with the disease.
My wife's early treatments (about four years ago) made her quite ill, and we would wait until she recovered before doing another one. One early treatment made blisters appear in her mouth, and I am not sure why.
This happened one time not too long ago also, but it was a much lesser degree than the last time.
We would vary between once a week to once every two weeks. This was enough to bring her from partially crippled from arthritis pain, Lyme rages, other brain problems, to near normal in a few months. Once every week or two should keep most anyone from getting worse, once you have beat it down to a lower level. We were using no other treatment at this time, so there is no variable involved.
I doubt you will ever cure it this way, but if nothing else, it can keep you functional enough to live a near normal live.
My wife has been at about the same health wise since we initially pared down the Lyme. About 90%. We have only been able to knock Lyme down, but not eliminate it. The regular Lyme frequencies only appear to kill the physically weaker Spirochete form, leaving other forms intact.
If that was not the case, she should not just be improved, but cured by now.
I am trying to rid her of the last of it using some newer mathematically calculated frequencies, and she gets treatments nearly every day now. I do not know if it will work, or not.
The new frequencies affect the Lyme bacteria in a way that the regular frequencies do not, but I am not sure that it is killing it. I just know that it disturbs them in some way. It can be felt by my wife. Last time she nearly jumped off of the couch when a particular frequency really affected some bacteria. For whatever reason, she can feel it disturbing the bacteria. This is not typical, but she may have a lot attached to nerves. I do not know the why part, only that she does.
It is an experimental treatment in progress, and the outcome is yet to be determined.
Dan
Posted by aMomWithHope (Member # 19255) on :
Very interesting questions. Hoping to learn more.
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
I bought my rife machine used. I have not used it yet, even though I've had the machine for about a year. I started doing research on Rife in 2006. One of my friends who was the moderator of a group that I monitored (Myspace Lyme Group), decided to use Rife treatment after having failed many antibiotic therapies. He considered all the possibilities and decided to try Rife. I told him that if in 2 years of Rife therapy, he could say that Rife alone (presumably) was the primary factor in recovery, I would purchase the machine. He kept a blog, and I read the entire thing. Two years it took. He suffered a lot early on -- just as expected. His pattern of recovery followed exactly that of other patient reports. At the end, he was 90-95% recovered (His opinion of what normal health is). So subjectively, it's like those little smile charts at the doctors office of 1-10. The horrible sad face with tears in excruciating pain is 10, while the extremely happy smile is no pain at all. He would have checked off .5 to 1
That's impressive. Because I know this kid and he was down to earth and just wanted to carve his boats and enjoy the ocean. Just a 23 year old kid who wanted to work, attend school and carve boats. So, that is what it took to convince me.
I did my homework, and informed my family of the purchase. I told them I would explore all my options that "science" had to offer, until we felt we'd explored every reasonable option.
As you might know, I wrote a post called "Almost Nothing Has Worked." So it's 2009. I've been treating with antibiotics for 7 years, and over that time frame learned that not only did I have Lyme, but Rocky Mountain (which we solved), Babesia, Bartonella and still further other problems with mold. Admittedly, Babesia was a clinical diagnosis, as was the Bartonella. However, I respond nicely to Malarone (Night sweats have gone from drenching (soaked mattress and pillow), to almost none at all. Sounds like a parasite right? Afterall we can safely assume such since that's what Malarone treats.
Rife Therapy will likely be a treatment I follow in the near future. Per month, I spend about $500 dollars on supplements, medical co-pay, medications. My machine was a one time payment of $600. It was a used machine that usually sells for about 1K through Rife Labs. It's called an EMEM3D2. (It no longer sells for 1K since they've evolved and updated their entire line).
Now, I don't have any experience with using the machine, and as you can tell I've been willing to spend my life savings (and more) trying to follow the "right" path. At some point sadly, Science ran out of data, and then experimentation began. When the testing is inadequate, an there are other unknowns -- and you've treated for over 7 years like I have (And had a positive test for Lyme, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, as well as a variety of things, you start to wonder which direction should you take after you've done everything "they" told you to."
So, here I am. I've done almost everything that ILADS offers, and I know for a fact that my Lyme is still active inspite of long term antibiotics that are known to reconcile the issue. I have proof in the form of tests that keep coming back IgM positive. When you see ongoing positive testing, you have to wonder --- maybe it "is" a persistent infection. And why did I get Rocky Mountain too on my Quest Lab?
So I'm sick -- like everyone else, and I'm now in an area of modern medicine where doctors cringe and would rather just throw me to the sharks. It's not my fault. I did what I was told. I did the research.
So, I began going on patient reports. I figured if buying a car, computer or TV on Amazon.com based on the number of user reviews (And as close to 5 stars as possible), then I could do the same with Rife.
I spoke with probably a couple hundred people. And here is what I distilled from their "ancedotal" reports. The primary machines with the highest success rating was the Doug Coil. Most people (which wasn't many), gave it about 5 stars but home made machines weren't easy to build or use for the average person. I'd say there were maybe 20 people who built their machines or had someone build it for them.
Then there were at least 75 or more who had used a version of what is known as an EMEM machine. These machines are moderate to low in pricing -- averging about 500 to 1,500) depending on if you get fancy features, bells and whistles etc.
Most people who were still in treatment said they really liked their machine and they either knew it was working because of how sick they were feeling (They subjectively attributed reports in comparison with Herxheimer reactions to antibiotics.) or they were confident in the purchase because they were seeing "Herxheimers, followed by gradual progress." Or the other group said they are feeling better -- most mentioned percentages around 60-80%. So we're not talking cure here. We're also not talking about singular issues. People aren't reporting cure in the average case. They're saying "It was one thing that really helped, but I still had to look at X, Y, Z too."
There were other people who recommended some other machines like the GB4000, (Maybe 5-10 people) and many liked their machine and reported good results, but pricing seemed to keep the pool of reports lower than the EMEM.
The primary issue for me was: Where can I buy my Honda Accord of Rife Machines? A machine that "most" people not only liked, but also found relatively easy to use and wasn't going to break me financially.
So I found my machine and made my choice. Based on the reports, people would give my machine about 4 stars. Not 5,....just 4. So why did I settle on only a 4? Simple. No other machine at the time fell into the mold perfectly. So instead of a Honda, I bought a used Nissan Altima. Still a great choice. Mine went 200K plus, and was still running like new when I sold it. I expect my EMEM to do the same.
If my machine works out for me, It was $600 well spent. If it doesn't work out for me, I bought it at such a sharp discount, I can simply sell it to someone else. The person who sold it to be me so it for the same reason I was thinking of selling it. He wanted to give "everything" a chance based on his doctors recommendations before doing it. He also reported that he felt he was "too" sick to use it because the reactions he got were devastating herxheimers.
I've been the primary list holder (unofficially) for a few years now. If there is an LLMD, or a care provider who tolerates the diagnosis of "Chronic" in Chronic Lyme Disease, I more than likely know them.
I collect reports from patients. Of the top 5 Lyme Disease specialists in the country 9in my opinion) each had a comment to say about Rife. One said "I can't give advice, but.... I can tell you what patients have said." The reports ranged from "Meh, it definitely causes patients to experience tremendous flare-ups" to -- "My patients are recovering when many other therapies have failed -- but I can't prescribe it, recommend it, or say anything else."
So, do it work? I don't know.
Is there risk? Yes, and it's possibly as volatile as the drug therapies I've been on and the IV sepsis, emergency room visits from drug interactions as well as side effects.
Would I recommend it to anyone? Maybe, Maybe Not. I would recommend they research it as fully as possible and try to be as reasonable (and logical) as possibly in organizing the approach they take to treatment. Following the science is important for some -- if you guard your commitment to therapies based on that fact, but also do your own research knowing that countless studies exist stating that Chronic Lyme Disease doesn't exist. Proof is not always in the facts, because facts can be used to obscure truth. You have to find the truth with the best of your abilities and tools. If for some sad reason you end up not recovering and you've tried and tried with multiple first, second and third opinions (like me), then you'll have to decide whether you're willing to step even further into the unknown. You have to weigh the risk of dying of cancer, or some other sad side effect that might happen from using one of these therapies, vs. potentially recovering "some" of your health so that you can live with a higher quality of life.
Let me repeat. I have not rifed yet. Even if I do. It won't change my advice. You have to walk your own path first and foremost and decide what treatments you'll do.
Posted by Topper (Member # 18568) on :
I did some research, too-and when I read something like this (especially when it is written by an expert on Complementary and Alternative Medicine ) I listen up!
In essence- he deems the promotion of Rife MAchines for health benefits as unethical.
Michael H. Cohen, Esq.combines experience as a practicing lawyer, faculty member at law and medical schools, founder of a nonprofit Institute for Integrative and Energy Medicine, and student of the healing arts.
He has written leading books on complementary medicine law and policy, as well as numerous articles and a column for Yoga Journal on legal, ethical, and business issues in yoga teaching.
He is principal attorney in the Law Offices of Michael H. Cohen, a law practice that has been rendering legal advice in the area of holistic health, complementary and alternative medicine, and general business to a wide variety of clients since 1999.
Just what is needed----Integrative medicine with a realistic view of what is integrative medicine and what is herky-jerky fraud.
Excerpt: FDA on RIFE Technology
The FDA website has a lot of material on use of the RIFE machine, not all easy to find.
One can search the "device advice" product classification database for name of a particular establishment (manufacturer) or for the name "RIFE." One can also search the warning letters, or the FDA website generally.
Doing the latter yielded over 160 results, many in the adverse events department. Here is a sampling: (read at the web site)
FDA describes health fraud as "articles of unproven effectiveness that are promoted to improve health, well being or appearance." The articles can be drugs, devices, foods, or cosmetics for human or animal use.
FDA shares federal oversight of health fraud products with the Federal Trade Commission. FDA regulates safety, manufacturing and product labeling, including claims in labeling, such as package inserts and accompanying literature. FTC regulates advertising of these products.
************************ The Institute for Integrative and Energy Medicine
"The way forward involves not only preventing negligence and fraud, but also facilitating therapeutic exchanges between various healthcare providers and their patients. Framed in this light, the need for international dialogue around common legal and ethical issues pertinent to CAM therapies becomes ever clearer."
-- Michael H. Cohen, ``Legal and Ethical issues in Complementary Medicine: A U.S. Perspective'', Medical Journal of Australia 181:3:168-169 (2004).
The Institute serves as a reliable forum for investigation and recommendations regarding the legal, regulatory, ethical, and health policy issues involved in the judicious integration of complementary and integrative medical therapies (such as acupuncture and traditional oriental medicine, chiropractic, massage therapy, herbal medicine) and conventional medicine.
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
You have to be very thoughtful about what you choose to do, and that information posted above helps clarify even further that not only does the treatment affect you, but potential bystanders, including children in your home (if you have any).
Good post. A good physician will give you their opinion (if asked) from the perspective of what they've noticed clinically about experimental treatments, but they will be clear in telling you (I don't know if X (Rife?) is the reason the patient(s) is getting better. There is no clear research available for me to prescribe X, but if you wish to investigate yourself, and if you chose to do it, then I would like you to check in with me and keep me informed of how you're doing."
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
Thanks for the info on your patient reports Mike. Good to read.
Interesting link topper. I must say that much of the FDA reports are based on pure speculation in terms of rifes effects on people. If they are that concerned, why don't they stop the use of cell phones??
One concern I have is that the FDA is quoting Quackwatch!! Quackwatch cannot be trusted to provide objective information about anything related to alternative medicine.
Check out what Quackwatch has say about chronic lyme and LLMD's. The doctor who runs the site has been discredited in court repeatedly. Last I heard he hadn't held a medical license for over a decade. His own wife has fibromyalgia. Too bad he will never consider that she may have lyme.
Seems like the owners of CAMLAW felt OK with quackwatch or they wouldn't have put up FDA info on their rife page that wasn't specific to rife but to medical devices in general that actually uses Quackwatch as if it has any credibility. I wouldn't trust the people involved in that site for that reason alone.
From what I've seen of the FDA over the years, they seem to be more intersted in protecting big business than in protecting consumers. I've seen them pull some pretty nasty stunts on certain products, in essence giving a monopoly to one company to the detriment of the fibromyalgia guaifenesin community.
They remind me of another big government agency called the CDC.
I don't trust the FDA anymore than I trust the CDC and their information about chronic lyme disease.
Terry
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
I fully agree Terry. When it comes down to it, you really have to make the choice yourself. It's your body, money, time, and ultimately, life.
Quackwatch is "not" the source one should be quoting by any means. I didn't bother getting into that though even though I'd known about that doctor for quite sometime. He posts on news sites whenever articles about Chronic Lyme Disease come up. He posts aggressively and instigates arguments, repeating the same IDSA punchline over and over. He also stalks patients online. Many here at Lymenet can attest to that.
Regarding the FDA and the CDC. Just because they have Lyme wrong doesn't mean they're totally useless, but I certainly agree that I wouldn't just "take their word" for it. They've been involved in plenty of corrupt events that have made the media -- just like the IDSA is now being held hostage by the intricate web of poor logic they wove when producing the 2006 Lyme Disease guidelines.
At any rate, people thought MRI's, SPECT scans, X-ray were all fantasy initially. In-fact, plenty of technologies have been laughed at for decades. People "never never" thought we'd have hand held computers like Star Trek, or cell phones. Man once thought flight was impossible, but people tried anyway. People experimented and worked hard to investigate. Then, it happened. Someone made it happen.
The reality is, even if the machines don't "actually" work -- if patients are reporting that they're feeling better over extended courses of time, it's because of some other effect of owning the machine - whether psychological, or perhaps other factors. Highly doubtful, but even if true -- I'll line up to get my "fix" of placebo effect. Obviously feeling better doesn't necessarily mean you really "are" better, but at some point, you've gotta ask yourself what you're willing to risk to "feel" anything other than suffering.
Do your homework. The critics are right about the lack of science, but they can't deny that Lymetoo, or Map, or Bergy are feeling better (or their loved one). That's what the bottom line is.
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
Alig -
Thanks for starting this post. I, like you, have read enough good reports about rife from knowledgeable people on this site that I am also researching it.
I have purchased Bryan Rosner's rife book and haven't gotten too far, but it does give you the basic information about rife. I agree that Bryan certainly does not come across as a rocket scientist and there is very little science to back up his statements, but I knew this when I purchased it.
I find it ironic that those who are so adamantly against rife due to the lack of science can pursue long term antibiotic treatment which many naysayers think is unsupported by science!
I have gained much valuable knowledge on this site from mere patient reports. These reports taught me about symptoms and helped me diagnose my children with lyme and certain coinfections contrary to my pediatricain's "scientific" opinion at the time.
Good luck in your research...keep us posted on what you decide.
Best,
tickbattler
Posted by JR (Member # 16898) on :
Tickbattler said "I find it ironic that those who are so adamantly against rife due to the lack of science can pursue long term antibiotic treatment which many naysayers think is unsupported by science!"
Come again? Are you saying there is no science to back up the fact that antibiotics kill bacterial infections?
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
JR -
My three very young children are each on 3 abx and have been on them for a year with much improvement. I am certainly not one of the naysayers.
I am speaking of the IDSA and pretty much all of mainstream medicine. If you read the IDSA guidelines, they do not believe chronic lyme exists and do not believe that long term abx use for lyme is supported by science.
My point is that there is one of the biggest medical controversies in our century going on about whether long term abx use for the treatment of Lyme is supported by science!
And there is no scientific proof that I am aware of that tells me that one will definitely be cured or put into remission by long term abx use.
My husband is still at only 60% after 2 years of abx. That is why I am looking at other avenues.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Terry said,
"From what I've seen of the FDA over the years, they seem to be more intersted in protecting big business than in protecting consumers. I've seen them pull some pretty nasty stunts on certain products, in essence giving a monopoly to one company to the detriment of the fibromyalgia guaifenesin community.
They remind me of another big government agency called the CDC.
I don't trust the FDA anymore than I trust the CDC and their information about chronic lyme disease."
I absolutely agree! Well said!
Posted by JR (Member # 16898) on :
There is scientific proof that antibiotics kill bacterial infections.The risks of long term antibiotics are well documented and can be dealt with. There is no scientific proof that Rife kills anything. Rifers are strickly self treaters - at their own risk. When it comes to Rife-even CAM doctors agree with FDA.
Posted by AliG (Member # 9734) on :
I had a family thing to go to yesterday & when I came home was exhausted & a bit overwhelmed by all the info. Thank you all for your replies.
I'm going to have to go back through & try to respond but I wanted to put some thoughts up here before I forget them.
I'm wondering if Rife can somehow interfere with quorum-sensing, causing individual bacteria to think that they are alone & thus quieting them down but not actually killing them.
I recall having posted a study a while back, done by a researcher in Princeton, that found that some pathogenic bacteria actually communicated with each other (possibly by emitting sound waves???) when they were able to determine that enough other bacteria were present, they mounted an attack.
If their communication was disrupted, they thought they were alone & became dormant.
I did a little expanded reading on quorum-sensing & found that GARLIC is a quorum-sensing inhibitor.
I'm wondering if garlic might be just as effective as Rifing, IF quorem-sensing inhibition is the mechanism by which people find relief. That would really be great because garlic is pretty cheap!
I also thought about the possibility that having to figure out which frequencies, for how long, and trying to decipher any effects & whether one is herxing or having cyclical symptom flares, might serve as a great distraction and thereby lessen pain in those who find it helpful.
Question here: Are those who feel that they are seeing benefits from Rife Tx finding this helpful with memory/cognitive issues or only pain?
The other thing that I recalled (from the discussions here about whether Drs recommend it or not) was having attended a group meeting in NYC, where Dr.B was speaking.
I remembered him stating that he would NOT recommend Rife because it had not been investigated for it's potential to cause harm, among other reasons. I looked for my notes but couldn't find them. I checked with DH to make sure I was remembering correctly.
Reading the comparison to cell phone emissions and the fact that it can affect other members of the household frightened me a bit.
I remember having seen a study which stated that cellphones could cause brain tumors in children. It may be possible that they could be more prone to this because their brains are still developing.???
I won't even allow my daughter to hold a cell phone to her head, even though it makes me a really mean & totally uncool mommy.
I wonder whether it can impact the permeability of mucous membranes or the BBB over time.
Even though I do go & have MRIs done when I'm told it's necessary. That's still a fairly new technology, without a real long-term track record for safety, which also makes me a bit uncomfortable.
I really don't like the fact that cancer seems to have become such a common affliction. I often wonder whether cigarette smoking really causes lung cancer or if it's because every time a smoker goes to the Dr with a cough they get sent for yet ANOTHER chest X-ray. Really, how much radiation can they expose a person to before it has a detrimental effect?
I just read a "study" that claims that after 3 years of implementing a smoking ban there's been a 30%(?) decrease in cardiac death, they concluded that the ban is the reason for the decreased deaths.
It occurs to me that they have made some significant advancement in interventional cardiology over the past three years, yet it doesn't dawn on them that THIS might actually be the reason.
The quality of the studies does depend on the way they are structured BUT a well-structured study really can be somewhat reassuring.
I wonder if this is a sign that I'm getting "old".... Hey, they say that with age comes wisdom so maybe my obsessive need to be cautious and well-informed before making decisions is not such a bad thing.??? I'm really not THAT old though.
I can't keep up with all the posts and my head is spinning right now so please forgive me if I don't respond to each individual reply. I am grateful for all of the information & opinions.
Use of long-term abx for Lyme Tx may be being debated right now, however long-term abx IS a recognized Tx for other diseases. There have been studies done on the effects, side effects, interactions, safe dosages etc. So actually long-term abx therapy is not really such a blind leap of faith.
Long-term abx actually cure other diseases, yet if we're still sick after a short-term our Sx must be "post-infectious".???
Many people have multiple co-Infections that warrant additional abx, yet if Lyme can be rightfully suspected (thanks to IDSA) many practitioners just start looking for ways to cut the patient loose.
I'm tired & going off on tangents again. I'm sorry everyone.
Thanks again, Ali
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
Just pick up the book I recommend and it'll answer all your questions to the best of any of our abilities. Lyme Disease: When Antibiotics Fail and Rife Machines. Amazon has reviews, you can read through, and probably even buy it used. It's worth the read in my opinion.
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
My wife's brain problems were the very first thing that were cleared up by use of the frequency machine.
I do not know why this happened so quickly, but it was a matter of a few weeks and that part was gone, and has not been a problem since.
I forget to even mention that she had Lyme rages and these unexplainable crying break downs over relatively minor events, totally out of character for her. I forget about it because it has not been a part of her symptoms for so long.
Dan
Posted by coltman (Member # 21272) on :
quote:Originally posted by JR: There is scientific proof that antibiotics kill bacterial infections.The risks of long term antibiotics are well documented and can be dealt with.
I wouldnt be so sure about it. In case you didnt know all drugs have effects besides the ones on "label" .Most of those are poorly researched even for well known , old abx .
Risks are real and unfortunately not easily "dealt with" when they are to occure.
quote: There is no scientific proof that Rife kills anything. Rifers are strickly self treaters - at their own risk. When it comes to Rife-even CAM doctors agree with FDA.
Umm last thing I would look at is FDA opinion on the matter. Rife is also pretty cheap and seems side effect free. So imho one of those options that are worth trying - if it doesnt work you dont lose anything but a bit of cash.
Posted by losferwrds (Member # 19741) on :
How many Rife Researchers are presenting at the ILADs 2009 conference on the 24th and 25th.
Since so many people say" they're LLMD secretly know it works", its funny that Dan "Enem" and Doug "Coil" don't present some of their research in an open minded medical forum
Why is no one willing to supply them with this evidence? Even non medical people from website groups(CALDA) were invited to the IDSA hearing, surely since ILADs is more in tune with the problem they would be open to some alternative discussion.
Why keep it in the black market if it works????
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- losferwrds,
There is a big difference in black market and an "experimental instrument" FDA classification, which is what the rife has. -
Posted by losferwrds (Member # 19741) on :
quote:Originally posted by Keebler: - losferwrds,
There is a big difference in black market and an "experimental instrument" FDA classification, which is what the rife has. -
Semantics like this allow rife vultures to profit at sick peoples expense.
This used to be a medical forum, I have 2 requests in with the moderator to delete my account, this is a sad place to come to for anyone looking for medical advice, it reminds me of the seinfeld episode when george turns blue.
Posted by nomoremuscles (Member # 9560) on :
quote:Originally posted by losferwrds: How many Rife Researchers are presenting at the ILADs 2009 conference on the 24th and 25th.
Since so many people say"" they're LLMD secretly know it works, its funny that Dan "Enem" and Doug "Coil" don't present some of their research in an open minded medical forum
Why is no one willing to supply them with this evidence? Even non medical people from website groups(CALDA) were invited to the IDSA hearing, surely since ILADs is more in tune with the problem they would be open to some alternative discussion.
Why keep it in the black market if it works????
They were going to, but the presentation "OCD, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, and Social Behavioral Disorders and the need to lash out; a byproduct of Lyme, bartonella, babesia, or mycoplasma infection" ran over.
Perhaps next year.
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
Just got back tonight from my children's visit to Dr. J in CT. During the visit, I asked him if he thinks rife works and he didn't hesitate to agree that it did.
He said that he didn't think it alone could put one in remission but that it needs to be done along with other treatments. He thought it would work well along with antibiotics. He also mentioned infrared saunas as a useful addition to antibiotics.
I asked if he thought rife could speed up the recovery process if used along with antibiotics and he thought yes. He was not concerned about the safety.
Just thought I'd share the insight of arguably the most experienced LLMD on the planet.
tickbattler
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
A lot of LLMD's on the main list I provide support Rife therapy and think it's a productive treatment.
If you're in opposition to it, that's ok by me. I'm sure it's ok by everyone here who is (or has) gotten benefit from their machine.
If mine doesn't work for me personally, I'll just sell it and get my money back. Big deal!
Feeling Better With Rife > Debating Whether Rife Works
The bottom-line will be the same every time.
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
I cannot say I can find any reason to disagree with anything you were told.
I think it is a long shot that this treatment can cure anyone, but it can bring you back to a functional human being.
I also think it can be used along with antibiotics, and that there could even be a synergistic effect by doing so.
I would like to know if any of his patients use both antibiotics and frequency treatments and if he has noticed any difference in their progress?
Thanks for asking the doctors opinion on the matter.
Dan
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
Dan,
I think Dr. J was basing his opinion about rife on what he sees with his patients. He has some patients who do it and have improved with it. I didn't get much more detail than that. I will probably ask him more about it in January at our next visit once I am able to research it further.
Best,
tickbattler
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
Hey Dan, I just bought a few new books. 300 dollars worth! I picked up
The Baker's Dozen & the Lunatic Fringe: Has Junk Science Shifted the Lyme Disease Paradigm?
Insights Into Lyme Disease Treatment: 13 Lyme-Literate Health Care Practitioners Share Their Healing Strategies
Lab 257: The Disturbing Story of the Government's Secret Germ Laboratory
The Rife Handbook of Frequency Therapy, with a Holistic Health Primer- PhD Nenah Sylver
Rife's World of Electromedicine: The Story, the Corruption and the Promise- Barry Lynes
Have you read any of these? I heard the Handbook for Rife was very useful. It's also been updated.
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
I have the Nenah Silver book, but I have only thumbed through it. I do most of my reading in the Winter, since I have plenty to do when the weather is nice.
I have read Barry Lynes other book, The Cancer Cure that worked. I have heard that the new one is not much different.
I also have read Bryan Rosner's first book, but I knew most of what he wrote already, but it was a good basic introductory book.
One of the most interesting ones I have bought is the Separate EM+ Research Material Manual from Bruce Stenulson. It is spendy at $70.00, but it is all rife type frequency related anecdotes and research. Over 600 pages so it takes a while to get through it. There is no other book like it.
I was not aware of the other ones you mentioned, but they sound interesting.
Dan
Posted by springshowers (Member # 19863) on :
Wow Mike . you got some big reading ahead of you. I hope you learn a lot and can share as you go too. I have a tough time reading through whole books..
Its really frustrating because I used to be such an academic...
Dan.. are there any websites that are great for beginners that you would recommend?
thanks
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
The Rife Forum has many experienced people, but they are mostly egg heads, and they do not post a lot. There are a few that are treating Lyme, and some of them post pretty often on their experiences. http://www.rifeforum.com/
I read extensively at www.rife.org, but the site is constantly under attack and it is down now. They have many of the original letters of Rife and the Doctors that used his frequency treatments.
It is very time consuming reading all of those individual letters, but it becomes obvious how far ahead of his time he really was. Another quality he had was he absolutely anal about repeating experiments, hundreds and thousands of times to make sure he met all of Koch's Postulates. His conclusions were without reproach, since he was far more thorough than average.
It seems like Greek to begin with, but it is not a difficult as it seems. It is hard to begin with, but you will learn quickly. I had no experience with any alternative treatments four years ago. I thought they were for Lunatics and suckers. I was wrong, and I quickly learned and unlearned at the same time. You will to.
Dan
Posted by JR (Member # 16898) on :
AliG- go to search-there are over 331 more threads in Medical Forum alone that refer to rife.
![[hi]](graemlins/hi.gif)
![[confused]](graemlins/confused.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[shake]](graemlins/shake.gif)
)![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Crud, I just freaked myself out. I hate when that happens.