I'm curious about rife. HBOT and MP seem to help some 20-25% of the people who tried it, but I hear lots of people who claim successful treatment from rifing and none who say it didn't help.
I'm kind of confused by it. It seems like it would be so easy to prove rifing works in a lab setting with in-vitro experiments and lab animals, and yet google hasn't found any good research. But if it were purely psychological, it seems like it would have lots who tried it and got nowhere.
So: have you tried a rife machine and not seen any effect from it?
Thanks
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Got results here.
Posted by secondtimearound (Member # 7249) on :
Hi Dave,
I understand your concerns but sometimes you just have to try something - I was scared but desperate when I finally decided it was time to at least try it. That was back when there were very few reports at all - If it was psychological when I got better I'll take it!
Then again, just like any other treatment I'm sure you will find others who decided it didn't help them - it's a fair question.
If you have any questions feel free to PM me. I'm not a doctor just someone who has been there.
All My Best, Scott
Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :
Minimal results - not a significant factor in my recovery though I still try from time to time.
Posted by Sheryl777 (Member # 17804) on :
For those of you who were not helped, could you post which machine you used and maybe a little about how often and how long you treated yourself.
Sheryl
Posted by catskillmamala (Member # 12536) on :
Worked for me. The tricky thing is not knowing if you are using the right frequencies. If you rife with the wrong frequencies it won't be effective.
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
I read a story about it and will try to recall the long and short of it. Someone promoted curing cancer using rife and one or two people in that person's care died. The promoter was prosecuted. I would be very careful before investing money into one of these things. Find someone that will allow you to try theirs first, or buy one with the guarantee that you can return it. Evidently there are a lot of them online being sold by dissatisfied customers. Have to say I don't much respect Schaller but he says it is worthless in his book on bartonella. There are a lot of people out there trying to exploit us. Kinesiology is very disturbing to me - being treated via spit on a cotton ball, the "healer" just "feels" what is wrong. Some people swear by it but they never get any better and are off to another magic solution. I look at rife as a magic solution. There is no one in the medical community that promotes its value.
Posted by kidsgotlyme (Member # 23691) on :
A friend of mine just sent me a link for a software to turn your computer in a rife machine.
Has anyone tried that?? I don't want to spend $100 for nothing..
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
Actually quite a few very very well known LLMD's who I've spoken to say that it's effective. Additionally, the fact that Schaller says it's worthless made me smile. He also said levaquin wasn't helpful.
No one can promote it officially given it's got no FDA support, but it "is" recommended as a therapy -- by some doctors -- for the patient to consider in their own time if they wish (i.e. legal way of suggesting a prescription).
The Cowden Protocol creator recommends Rife to some patients, as does a well known Pediatric Lyme specialist. There are many others.
The science behind Rife is quite simple. How do you think lithotripsy machines work for kidney stones? It is a non-invasive method of directing a high powered acoustic pulse at the stone, and shattering it while still inside the person.
Cat Scan technology, MRI -- these all use electromagnetic technology to read the "affects" of electromagnetic vibrations which provide a visual image. Rife Machines provide an amplifier, a frequency modifier (which you input data), and then the device -- either via contact to the skin, or from a radiant bulb -- sends out electromagnetic frequencies. All living organisms are confirmed -- factually -- to produce natural frequencies depending on composition. When multiple frequencies from the external environment contact the object, it will leave it's "harmonious" state and begin to vibrate. This oscillation can lead the object, depending on it's content, to shatter, or ossilate to such a degree that it damages the bonds of the molecules and atoms, pulling them apart,
Applie appropriate frequencies to the body for specific cells, and with enough power, the electromagnetic fields will cause damage -- which is intended to cripple or kill the organism so that it's no longer a pathogenic threat.
This is why Rife gets support, because it makes sense in the context of what we already understand about both quantum as well as applied physics.
Posted by TerryK (Member # 8552) on :
Neff wrote: "Kinesiology is very disturbing to me - being treated via spit on a cotton ball, the "healer" just "feels" what is wrong."
I don't want to divert this thread but want to mention that you are misinformed! This is NOT kinesiology. I hope you will educate yourself before giving an opinion on various methods and treatments.
IMO, the key to rife is getting the right frequencies as was already mentioned. FWIW, I was told by a doctor who treated mostly CFIDS patients that he had numerous patients with postive experiences using rife.
Terry I'm not a doctor
[ 12-23-2009, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: TerryK ]
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by kidsgotlyme: [QB] A friend of mine just sent me a link for a software to turn your computer in a rife machine.
Has anyone tried that?? I don't want to spend $100 for nothing..
I tried it, but didn't have it long enough to give it a real run. It was soon after that that I found the machine I now use.
I would put the $100 toward a real machine. Mine only cost $450.
Posted by secondtimearound (Member # 7249) on :
David here is a site that is in Europe with a lot of articles. I just started looking at this site so i don't know what exatly is there but hopefully it will give you some info.
Agree, invest in a machine, not software.
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
quote:There is no one in the medical community that promotes its value.
Doctors and practitioners all over Germany are using it. It is an authorised treatment.
Posted by springshowers (Member # 19863) on :
I am finding you have to be patient with Rife. Your mind set has to change over from the methods we are used to.
And doing rife is more cumulative and you have to start slow and it might feel like it is not doing much at first.
Then in time you will see how you are responding differently and able to treat longer and you get a feel of what will give a herx and how to time thing etc.
Because when you start it feels so minimal I only can assume many might just say.. it did not work.
I had someone who wanted to "try it" before they went to buy it. They tried it by doing two treatments in a week span and decided it does not work for them.
WEll. thats just not enough.. not just time.. but you have to find those frequencies.
I had someone else who used the same one I have for three months and said they just are not responding. THey then hit on a certain program that was on the list they had and bamb. They said it was like night and day..
So.. sadly. THere is no manual as to what exactly to do or how to do it so you have to experiment and test it out on yourself.. That takes time.
You have to give time inbetween treatments to evaluate what it did or does..
Well if you wait a week between each one. Just to try it out.. it doing to take months...
Again.. Patience is so needed.. to be able to benefit and use Rife..
That is how I am looking at it.....
Its not easy.. and you have to be self motivated too and want to research really plan and think it out..
WE live in a world of instant gratification and even in the medical world.. WE want a therapy that is simple and fast ...
Not everything is.. that is for sure.. and not with Lyme Disease... that is for sure.
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
I have had plenty of things it has not worked on, and a few that it has.
I could not kill mold growing on some masonry no mater what frequency I used.
I treated for E-Coli and only got a stomach ache, and additional treatments only brought more stomach aches and no resolution to the suspected E-Coli.
Using it for Lyme on my wife brought her back from very ill, to normal.
Using it for H-Pylori worked for a day and a half and then symptoms came back. When I treated for six days in a row, symptoms were permanently resolved.
There are no double blind placebo controlled no studies that have been done in this country, and there probably never will be.
There is no one that can profit from such studies, and such evidence would be quite uncomfortable for the AMA and the FDA since they would have to reverse a staunch 70 year opposition to such treatment, encouranged by those who are profiting from other more lucrative treatments.
There is one study form Australia on frequency treatments and Arthritis.
Clinical trials have been done concerning Cancer, frequency effectiveness concerning the Oncotherm device. None of these are U.S. trials, and I do not know where they are available at. In spite of the proven effectiveness of this Cancer treatment, not one of these devices is available in the U.S.
Seems its a family thing here.. and I am wondering what frequencies and does it require a higher frequency machine like an EMX?
How do you know how long per session?
I am waiting to order from Rife Labs either an EMEM3d or an EMX.
Thank you!!
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
I posted the answer to your question on the other Rife thread. Sorry.
Dan
Posted by kidsgotlyme (Member # 23691) on :
Thanks to those who answered my questions.
And thank you, lymetoo, for helping me personally,
I am hopeful that I will be getting a machine soon.
Peace....Christie
Posted by Porsche (Member # 7644) on :
You should consider a few things before deciding to purchase a machine. People that claim rife works are always using some additional alternative therapy or herbal Treatment at the same time.
They have usually been on abx for a number of years before trying rife, so the success that they think that they are getting with rife is nothing more than a period of feeling a little stronger due to just being off of abx, and nothing more.
There is a lady on lymenet that goes by the usuer name of SWLisa. She recently had a brain scan that showed a number of lesions in her brain. She has been using alternative therapies for a long time thinking that they were working, and I believe that rife was a big part of her protocol. She did not list rife as being one of the things that she used, but I remember reading somewhere else that she did use it a lot. She would not answer my direct question about it though, and now the whole thread has been deleted.
It's my observation that many of the people that claim that rife is working for them are gradually going downhill, and that only by getting back on abx for short term protocols are they able to continue their perceived benefit from rife.
Posted by catskillmamala (Member # 12536) on :
Porche,
You are way off base here. There is only one thread where SWLisa posted that contained information on rife.
In that thread, SWL talks about the failure for her in going off of abx and going only alternative (not rife), you ask her if she's tried rife and that is the last post. She did NOT respond that she ever tried rife. She never identified rife as a major part of her protocol. You are misremembering the conversation. Please go back and review the thread.
I am using rife with no other supplements or alternative treatments and I am symptom free. And I know many others with similar experiences. Plus I've had 3 MDs tell me off the record that it works.
Even simple posts to lymenet come with responsibility. Lymenet is a searchable database that has become a lifeline of research and information for people with very complex, life threatening and confusing medical conditions.
Your "observation" that people on rife are going down hill should be backed up by links. There's tons of posts here on lymenet- find me the ones where rife truly isn't working. I see one post in this thread that rife didn't work, and that is the ONLY report I have ever seen or heard that rife- tried correctly (multiple frequencies over time) didn't work.
You are trashing a modality that you know nothing about. You are not speaking from experience and you are putting words in other people's mouths. This is exactly the same problem we have with people who say long-term abx treatment doesn't work.
Second-hand knowledge and hearsay are not nearly as meaningful as first-hand knowledge.
I suggest that rather than reporting what you think you might remember a poster saying, a search by screen name or treatment modality and share that information with the group.
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
Porsche, you are correct, there is NOT one single protocol to magically get rid of vector borne illnesses.
It is what is called The Big Picture. It's a process. Rife isn't a magic wand. They don't work in one month, 6 mths or 12 months.
Many of us on this site that knew/lived abx were failing us and we needed to change our thinking have turned to rife. But none of us would clain that it was our only source of improving. Nobody!
Anybody that thinks just taking abx and doing no other life changes is not living/thinking in the real world of Lyme & co.
I resent that you would claim that any of us posting about rife and it's uses for treating lyme & co are lying about our observations and protocols.
Your observations are deceptive to anyone reading this thread.
Pam
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
What about Bryan Rosner? I thought he's the king of rife and cured by it.
Posted by kidsgotlyme (Member # 23691) on :
Personally, I just ignore negative posts like that.
I have been diagnosed with interstitial cystitis, and the doctor had me on ALL kinds of medication.
I finally just took myself off. I was no worse than before I started taking them.
My docotr was VERY angry and said that I HAD to get back on the meds. I don't go to him anymore. It just seemed to me that he was a pill pusher in the drug companies pockets.
Why would someone get so angry like that?? He doesn't have to live in my body. The only logical reason would be if my not taking the drugs was going to affect him personally.
I don't get mad at someone when I see them doing something harmful to themselves. I might be sad for them, but I'm not going to spew forth venom at them.
I KNOW that alternative therapies work. I've tried them. Different treatments work for different people. You just have to see what works for you.
The more I read and educate myself, the more I am convinced that the east needs to meet the west and the two need to become one. Whatever works for the patient. Not how much something costs, or who can patent what!!
Does anybody really care about the person who is sick??? If rife works for people, why would someone get on here and bash it?? It makes no logical sense to me...
Posted by Porsche (Member # 7644) on :
Now consider this; if rife did work there would not be a need to continue doing it forever and ever. If these frequencies did kill the organisms, they would all be dead after a single use. The frequencies resonate throughout the entire body, so how could any pathogen hide from it?
All of the rife freq's have been derived from muscle testing (AKA A.R.T, or kineaseology), or some kind of purely subjective response from the patient. Any notable response from the patient could mean a number of things, one of which could just be EMF damage or sensitivity.
You can also see how upset some of the rife users can get when ever any one dares to speak out against it. One of these people accused me of calling them a liar, when you can see for yourself that I did no such thing.
Catskillsmama; I did not disremember the thread. I asked her the direct question if she had used rife, and she would not respond to it. Someone else asked her the same question as well, and she would still not answer it.
Posted by catskillmamala (Member # 12536) on :
If antibiotics "worked" then they could be a one-shot approach, no? Actually, it's far more complicated than that. Antibiotics do work but bacteria can reside in places that it's hard for blood-transported antibiotics to reach, therefore the antibiotics kill some but not all of the bacteria. Thus, long-term treatment could be necessary. Bacteria could be protected by biofilms or in cyst form- again making them less suceptible to antibiotics- or ANY OTHER treatment including rife.
I do not find that rife penetrates the body so deeply that it "gets" all the bacteria. My experience is that I have bacteria continuing to reside in some of my joints that was not touched by antibiotics because there is not a lot of blood flow to cartilidge. Furthermore, those areas are deep and protected by bone, thus it seems to me that rife doesn't penetrate as well. Accordingly, for most of us rifers here so far, it is a maintenance plan, not a complete treatment.
That being said, I am working, driving, parenting, in zero pain, without brain fog. My stomach isn't ripped to shreds from abx nor am I suffering sepsis infections in my IV line, all in all, I'll take rife (even with the undertainty) over all that.
Posted by coltman (Member # 21272) on :
quote:Originally posted by Porsche: Now consider this; if rife did work there would not be a need to continue doing it forever and ever. If these frequencies did kill the organisms, they would all be dead after a single use. The frequencies resonate throughout the entire body, so how could any pathogen hide from it?
Well I am not sure anymore it works exact this way. based on recent info I read about EM (see my thread about Nordenstrom and Ling's cell theory) it could be different modality (it may actually just adjust the electrical flow trough EM induction, not really kill directly anything )
Besides it still not guarantee it kills all even if it kills it. Cystic and intracell forms are physically different and frequencies may not work on them as well as they do on spirochette
quote: All of the rife freq's have been derived from muscle testing (AKA A.R.T, or kineaseology), or some kind of purely subjective response from the patient. Any notable response from the patient could mean a number of things, one of which could just be EMF damage or sensitivity.
That part is not true. Albeit how those frequencies are derived is still black magic .Some frequencies are based on documentation from Royal Rife (and they are in MhZ range) . Most frequencies people use are in audio range and those are found out based on experience
There are some frequencies calculated based on DNA of pathogens (albeit I am not sure how reliable that method is )
Thing about rife is that it costs are relatively low. And it seems pretty harmless even if it doesnt work (unlike abx protocols which can cause all sort of problems )
I havent started reading Nordenstrom book yet (too much other stuff going on) , but from a few glances - its logical and convincing, he did variety of testing on animals which do show EM field variances
I am very skeptical but it does look to me that a huge area was simply ignored in mainstream. There ough to be more serious research in this area but while there is none ATM you have to do your own
p.s. I am not trying to say rife works - I dont know. Just saying that despite all my intentions to determine that anything like that can't work ( I was extremely skeptical at first) I couldn't find data to support it. In fact there are various information here and there that EM/Frequency fields do play a role, it is just their role is largely ignored
Posted by coltman (Member # 21272) on :
quote:Originally posted by lou:
That said, it is a free country and if people want to try things like rife, they should be allowed to. And if it seems to help, good for them. They are certainly not getting any help from mainstream medicine, or ins, or the govt.
Yup. Founding fathers should have put a clause in constitution about right to manage one own health. Because as it is now what you can and you can't do is determined by bureaucracies (FDA/AMA) who only really server the established mainstream and big pharma.
Posted by secondtimearound (Member # 7249) on :
I totally respect anyone's right to disagree and state their opinion but please make sure you speak from experience or state a fact.
I am sure you are just trying to help David out which we all are so I'm not trying to disrespect you here.
As a matter of fact, I love to hear both sides of any debate and I read everyone when I first made my choice.
We cannot choose for other people - we can only speak to what we have experienced. I am not a doctor so I would never recommend anyone do any particular treatment but I have been pretty sick and got better so I will definitely share how I did it if someone asks. And I would hope anyone else would too.
These are my real experiences:
...I only spent a years time on meds and a lot of that was pulsed. Not many years as you stated.
...I definitely used more than one thing - from my experience it takes multiple treatments but never at the same time. The reactions from rife were the same as meds without the yeast and additional problems.
...I was 100% well for 3 years, did absolutely no treatments and just got sick again after a new bite 2 months ago.
...I am treating the same way I did to get well previously and feel pretty close to 100% again after 8 weeks.
All My Best
Posted by coltman (Member # 21272) on :
quote: The reactions from rife were the same as meds without the yeast and additional problems.
And what if one doesnt have reaction from meds ? - my biggest problem with this approach. How the heck do I tell if it works
Posted by JOLA (Member # 23498) on :
I'm certainly not as well versed on this subject as many of you but heres my story. diagnosed lyme/bart/babs/ehrl in may/09 currently on mepron/biaxin/ceftin/diflucan off plaquenil-too many side effs. for a few months now no major herxes just feeling of sickness all over 24/7 friend set me up w/someone who had cured wife w/coil machine after being one Burascano's original ptnts. after first session major herx. 2nd session horrible herx lasting 4 days 3 session we took slowly-major herx waiting til after holidays to have next trmt. during all of this i have continued on abx. don't know what the right protocol is Husband ordered Dcoil and should have it in 1 month. perhaps this will get me off the abx does it work- you tell me?
Posted by secondtimearound (Member # 7249) on :
Coltman,
I wish I could tell ya - I'd be guessing or lying if I told you anything - sorry.
Have you ever tried rife?
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
Oh, it had been so peaceful lately.
Jola, slow down girl. Three sessions in how many days? I personally dropped abx cold turkey when I started using rife back in '04. I had to.
I've had numerous bites since. So it's a continual guessing game on which bacteria, virus or protoza I'm going after.
I've used levaquin maybe 3 months rotation for major GI issues that have happened last couple years from suspected bart sx.
Pam
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
If you suffer long enough and can't find a solution via doctors, drinking **** or doing Rife, or committing suicide all become viable options with a debilitating case of this illness(s).
So does Rife work? Purchase a dark field microscope and other materials, educate yourself on microbiology using the abundant internet resources and local library, purchase a machine that patients claim is well established to work, and monitor the results under a microscope using systematic methods. Do the bacteria rupture and spin at the common frequencies that patients claim helps? Is your hypothesis verified or disproven? If in vitro evidence supports the claim, then it certainly suggests that in vivo "might" also work hypothetically. Is that enough to motivate you to run further testing or experiment on your self? Maybe, maybe not. There are ways to find the solution though if only there is willingness.
Posted by David Miller (Member # 21583) on :
Since I started this thread I've looked around. I've come to the conclusion that rife machines are complete BS. I base this on a number of things:
1) there's not so much as a scrap of info about stupid-simple testing. If rife machines can kill bacteria X it's trivial to setup a lab test with bacteria X in a test tube, put it in an electromagnetic field for period Y, and watch it die. Testing on lyme could be harder because BB is hard to grow in the lab, but lots of other bacteria that rife is supposed to kill is easy. The complete absence of this literature is extremely suspicious.
2) "Supporting" literature isn't. Pull up the pages of "studies" from rife.de and 90% of them have nothing to do with rife, or with studies of killing bacteria. If that's all they have for studies it looks very suspicious.
3) Studies that I find credible suggest that the applied electric/electromagnetic energy wouldn't be enough to kill bacteria under any circumstance
4) The "scientific justification" for the technology is that the frequencies required are calculated from the actual DNA of the bacteria. Bacteria are little things. The DNA inside them is many times smaller - submicron, I expect. The frequencies being quoted here are not related at all. A frequency with a wavelength of hundreds or thousands of meters isn't going to excite a .5 micron string of DNA in any meaningful way, at least not that I can see.
5) google "rife machine fraud" and you can find lots of stories of it not working. Of people dying by using it while their friends got better with abx.
Soooo....
If you think its helped you - terrific. I'll chalk it up to the healing power of the mind. I won't be spending a grand or two of my money on one though.
Thanks for all the input.
David
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
David -- Just a thought, if pharmaceuticals couldn't make money on ABX even though there were people using it and getting some benefit, but there were others who didn't. Imagine 1 through 5 on your list. Based on the premise set above, I know I would be calling ABX a fraud based on my experience in some forum. ABX doesn't work for everyone. And if it isn't supported by science, many people will only do it for a short time and declare failure. In the ABX example you might need to continue for months before you see benefit.
Rife only works when you get the right frequencies and have a powerful enough unit to get deeper into the body.
Posted by jenny76 (Member # 18205) on :
Wow this is making my head spin. I wish there was a simple solution for everyone regarding treatment. I am learning that what works for one may not work for another. It seems to be trial and error for everyone.
I do know that if abx don't work for me I am not giving up. I will try other treatments such as rife, absolutely.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- David,
If you google "[anything], fraud" you will come up with lots of links, too.
-
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
Jenny, absolutely one doesn't give up. That's why after three yrs of abx, every combo, early stages, IV and all rx'ed group of other tx from a well known LLMD...
I went elsewhere and opened my eyes, ears and heart. Outside of the box is trail and error.
It was so worth it. I was dying a slow painful death with traditional medicine.
Pam
Posted by secondtimearound (Member # 7249) on :
David,
Looking back over the posting, in my opinion you were looking for reasons to discount it just by the people you were requesting answers from (those it had not helped)and throughout the post there was only one person that said it was not a big factor in their recovery. The other person in disagreement never mentioned trying it.
You are definitely entitled to your opinion and I definitely respect that - good luck and I hope you find something that helps you get well.
All My Best!
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
On a post that was suppose to find who it didn't work for. I think there was only one person in this entire thread who honestly tried it with a good machine who felt iffy about it. Pretty amazing how you concluded based on this thread it is ineffective. How does one prove it doesn't work? If it doesn't work, your out 2k unless you sell it on craigslist. Don't understand the rationale for this thread either. Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Looking back at all threads you started, David, it seems many of your posts discount the need for complex lyme treatments in general.
If you are a patient looking to get well, you can choose your own path. There is no need to fight patients about the paths they choose. There is no one one perfect plan that works all the time for everyone - and nearly every lyme patient is different from another with all the various coinfections, etc.
I hope you find what works for you but we all have better things to do than try to defend our existence and choices. If you really want to learn more, there are many things more to read. If not, just choose what path you think is best for yourself. -
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Believe what you want!! Suffer all you want.
Posted by David Miller (Member # 21583) on :
Sorry, folks, I wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers here....
In investigating rife machines I'd like to find something - anything - other than testimonials. I just haven't found it. No lab work where it kills any sort of bacteria. Just nothing at all.
I'm glad people have used it and gotten better. More power to you! People will do a lot of things and "get better", and whether the thing had any causative effect or not is not clear.
lymeie_in_md: I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. Antibiotics have many decades of lab testing with in-vitro concentration levels required to kill all manner of bacteria, and there are gigabytes of supporting documentation as to their effectiveness. That was #1 and 2 from my list. 3 and 4 clearly don't apply.
I'll grant you #5 without even bothering with google - I'm sure I'd get pages from searching on "fraud antibiotics". And I'll agree with Keebler that one could do so with any term.
Still, if one *reads* some of the pages about fraud and rife machines one won't find much in the way of defense other than "I have a stack of testimonials on my desk from happy customers".
Secondtimearound: I am looking for a reason to dismiss them, it can save me a lot of $$. Or a good reason to believe they work, which would give me reason to spend the $$. All I'm finding on the 'net is decades worth of testimonials and a complete lack of hard evidence. I, personally, want to see something more scientific than "it worked for me". You - all of you!! are entitled to you own opinion and comfort level. I have mine, and seeing cure X at least able to kill samples in the lab is a good place to start (for me).
Lastly, don't read much into my posts. Rather, don't try to discern much of my motivation from them. I've tried to help when I can in replies. As for threads that I start, I'm an unusual poster in that I'm not a chronic lymie desperate for help. I'm 90% sure I've got bart and lyme from last summer and have been on some abx for them since, and am seeking an LLMD in Maine. IE, I'm not (yet) chronic. Other threads I've started have been inquiring for other people with other levels of problems, very likely tick-bite related. One has serious neurologic issues that seem to be recovering some, one has some fairly serious physical issues in addition. Fortunately, however, none of them are nearly as bad as we've all heard about.
Jenny, I'm completely with you. If abx don't work for me I'll try all kinds of things too. Given mechanical tendencies and that oxygen is known to kill BB in the lab I'd be more inclined to build my own HBOT, but I'd try everything before I gave up. I expect to try them in what seems to me to be the best chance for success, and abx are at the top of that list:) While one is still alive there are more things to try:)
So peace to all. If a rife machine is right for you, go for it. I'd strongly suggest trying abx first, or at least in addition to abx, but that's just me:)
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- David,
Do you know how many thousands of lyme patients have no doctor, no way to get antibiotics? Or how many took them but5 could not tolerate?
Or how many did many rounds and still needed something different?
Sure, first line of treatment, abx can be a life-saver. But not everyone has access to such treatment. Many states have not even one LLMD and in many states, there are no GP's willing to treat at all; no ID docs willing, either.
After one trip out of state and tests, many patients are already broke and have no way to borrow against a zero bank account.
Also, antibiotic can be very hard on the liver, even with liver protection. Some do better than others for for those with liver damage, rife can be a life-saver, indeed.
Have you been able to find the works of Royal Rife about the machine in general? Some of that work is very interesting.
As for testimonials, the more people with positive experiences, the better. It gives hope and opens up doors for others who are struggling. And we learn from those who got knocked out and study the particulars.
Also, life itself is just one big experiment. Every day. Proceed with caution and become educated, of course . . . still, some things just have to be experienced before we know what works for us.
Even learning how to ride a bike could not be intellectualized but must be experienced. Falls happen but, eventually, we find our power and balance. -
Posted by coltman (Member # 21272) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Miller: Since I started this thread I've looked around. I've come to the conclusion that rife machines are complete BS. I base this on a number of things:
That was my initial impression too .
quote: 1) there's not so much as a scrap of info about stupid-simple testing. If rife machines can kill bacteria X it's trivial to setup a lab test with bacteria X in a test tube, put it in an electromagnetic field for period Y, and watch it die.
quote: 3) Studies that I find credible suggest that the applied electric/electromagnetic energy wouldn't be enough to kill bacteria under any circumstance
I don't think it works by directly damaging bacteria,
Especially the book. Its a solid work fairly meticulously documenting in vivo research with EM fields on animals
And also read Ling's cell theory .It provides interesting angle on EM fields.
No doubt there is a lots more serious research needs to be done in this field before it can be proven how exactly it works on diseases and pathogens (if it works at all).
quote: 5) google "rife machine fraud" and you can find lots of stories of it not working. Of people dying by using it while their friends got better with abx.
Could you give more specific examples? -I do think there is lots of fraud though. And no one really knows how and why it works (if it does)
I am very skeptical by nature. But I do question mainstream approach. Mainly because since 1940-1950s (most antibiotics discoveries) there been practically no progress in treatment of chronical conditions .
Most of what is called "progress in medicine" was actually progress of chemistry, microbiology, imaging and surgery. I believe a lot of it is because modern medicine is not really a science but strictly for profit business.
There is a lot of research done but medicine does not change it ways (check out h pylori case , current situation with lyme) -medicine simply ignores any research which does not conforms to its rigid framework (framework which produced nothing in past 50 years)
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
I would not expect anyone to really think frequency treatments could work without researching it first.
It is quite possible to try a machine without buying one first. Find someone in your region that has one, and try it.
No one here sells machines or has any motivation to promote them. In another words, the testimonials are honest interpretations of their experience. If you believe someone that says ABX saved their life, there is no difference if someone says frequency treatments saved their life.
Of course testimonials from people selling machines or drugs for that matter are suspect.
I notice that the lack of studies hold people back quite often. There will not be any U.S. studies in my lifetime. It will not happen.
There is no one in the medical community that would benefit from studies, and it would be rather threatening to the special interest groups that control health care in the U.S.
Think about it for a while. Are pharmaceutical companies going to do studies on a method of treatment that competes directly with their patented products?
Are doctors going to demand it? When the original Rife machines were in some hospitals, the doctors hated them. The patients did not want to see the doctor, they wanted to sit under the machine, because it helped more often than not.
I don't think that a majority of doctors are going to support the patient treating themselves, instead of coming to them. So I guess most doctors are happy without studies.
Is the government going to do the studies? Lets see, they are pretty much controlled by drug companies, and rely on them for research money.
The FDA actively hunts Rife machine manufacturers, and any doctor that uses them, as they have for over fifty years. No consumers complain about the machines, why are they so diligent on this minor business? Are they going to support studies? No, I don't think the government is going to do it.
Surely the manufacturers of Rife machines will do them. No, they sell them now, and studies do not really change anything for them. The machines are not patentable, anyone can sells them, studies or not. A billion or so to fund a study is hardly practical for an commodity product, that anyone can sell.
How many people have double blind studies before they go into a restaurant to eat, or buy a car, or house. How many of you had studies to back up your choice of a spouse?
If your intelligence, common sense and experience and the experience of others is good enough for most every other important decision you make, why is this faculty suddenly totally inadequate when it comes to your own medical treatment, and determining if it works?
The fact of the matter is you simply have been taught to defer to someone else for your thinking in this particular case. If you can tell when you are hungry, you certainly are capable of telling if you are improving from a disease. This is not complex or difficult. People do not get better for months and years based on a placebo effect. It is not even possible.
It is pretty hard to believe that the patient is unable to tell if they are improving. Isn't that one of the first things the doctor asks you? How are you feeling? I do not even know why he would ask, if it is not reliable.
If someone can tell if they are getting better on ABX, they certainly are just as capable of telling if frequency treatments are helping. There is no difference in feeling better using one treatment or another.
Once you are able to use your own good sense, then you are able to investigate alternative treatments. You are not in the same ballgame as with pharmaceuticals. The two are not measured the same, and never will be in the U.S.
All incentives are against any unprofitable, or unpatentable treatment getting proper studies. This is true of many treatments you have heard of before, that disappeared for lack of research money.
Dan
Posted by 5dana8 (Member # 7935) on :
alot of herxing but very little results.
everyones so different i hope it works for you
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
I agree with Bergy. He's distilled it down to the core. Also, if you're still sick after a year, you've got Chronic Lyme Disease.
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
I appreciate 5dana8's response because it is from actual use, and I want to hear real results from use, good or bad.
The fact that it caused a Herx, means it was killing Lyme, but some people do not get better from killing it. I am still puzzled by this common problem. I seem to see it a lot here, with many different treatments. Do you have some sort of idea of why this happens?
What have you found that works for you, or have you found a good treatment method yet?
Can you give some details on how you used the machine?
There is a good size group of people that are stuck in this circle of never getting better, and I think we should try nail down why this happens.
Dan
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
Thank you Metallic and Dan and Keebler for your posts. Very well said. I agree completely.
For those like 5dana8 who say that is has not helped them, it would be wonderful to hear how many times you tried it and for how many minutes and what frequencies you used and for how many months you used it.
It is my understanding that you might not see any improvements for at least a couple of months or more, just as with abx in some cases.
My husband has been on abx for 2.5 years and improved somewhat initially but still has a constant headache and insomnia and fatigue. We are ready incorporate rife to see if we can turn the corner.
tickbattler
Posted by Porsche (Member # 7644) on :
D. Bergy said:
quote: The fact that it caused a Herx, means it was killing Lyme,
Oh really? You have proof of this do you? This is such a false statement that it makes me cringe! There are a number of explanations for a herx type reaction from rife....the most likely one is from EMF exposure. Just like a lot of Lymies get sick from using a computer, they are going to have an even bigger reaction from the much stronger EM fields that a rife machine generates.
And then of course the true believers in this unproven Tx question Dana5's negative experience and chalk it up to user technique.
Listen folks, just cuz you ain't seeing a ton of negative responses from actual users doesn't mean that there isn't a long list of them. One comes to mind right off the top of my head that said she almost died from giving up abx and trying rife. Her name is Trish, and she goes by the name of Health on this board.
Bergy said:
quote: When the original Rife machines were in some hospitals, the doctors hated them. The patients did not want to see the doctor, they wanted to sit under the machine, because it helped more often than not.
Do you have some documentation on this? Probably just heresay that has been passed along through the rumor mill.
Bergy said:
quote: he FDA actively hunts Rife machine manufacturers,
Rife machines can be sold legitamately here in the US as long as they don't make a claim that it is doing something that it has not been proven to do...the same is true with supplements. The FDA is actually looking out for us by doing this.
If rife worked, it would be so easy to prove. Heck, even a High School lab student could do a simple test with infected mice that would show that it doesn't work. There is no doubt in my mind that these tests have been done by quite a few people that would indeed benefit from proving that rife was legite....but yet there is silence except for the testimonials and hype that is passed along for the desperate, because they are the ones that will spend the money.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
David -- I liked your response a great deal and I too very much appreciate many of the responses others had made. My response was hypothetical, about a world where they decided ABX wasn't worth testing. In that world imagine how 1 through 5 would be answered. Unfortunately a great many very good therapies are stuck in the profit making machine that is medicine. So good therapies have to be based on observation and communication not on evidentiary based science and publication.
It has been my view because evidentiary based science won't be used on many therapies, the lyme community organize itself into evaluation of supplements and therapies. We do this informally just like this thread to say "yeah it helped" or "no it didn't". If we were really good we do a better job of passing statistics from within the community more formally. We could also work with our LLMDs or LLNDs or buddy who knows a lot to get data.
So, I think we should all take the lyme community to the next level!
Oh, just a sample from the coffee enema thread, I thought was interesting. "I've been doing coffee enemas for years, but they didn't seem to help until I started KPU". Imagine this thought on the same line -- I've been doing rife for years and they didn't seem to help until I started to add detoxification. There are a lot of inter-relating therapies that have to be done in combination. Hopefully further justifying why we need to organize our results.
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
quote: If rife worked, it would be so easy to prove. Heck, even a High School lab student could do a simple test with infected mice that would show that it doesn't work. There is no doubt in my mind that these tests have been done by quite a few people that would indeed benefit from proving that rife was legite....but yet there is silence except for the testimonials and hype that is passed along for the desperate, because they are the ones that will spend the money.
I note you said "doesn't" work instead of "does or doesn't." Clearly you've already drawn your own conclusions, which is just as much an assumption as ancedotal reports claiming it does.
Since it's so easy to prove, skeptics like yourself should do the research to confirm or disprove what other patients are experiencing or claiming. A number of patients have done research and demonstrated it worked using laboratory equipment, but they didn't "publish" papers for peer review. Why not give Doug Mclean a phone call, he did research on it as well as scientific evaluation for it. He gladly talks to physicians, researchers and patients who have questions. He doesn't sell anything, all his advice is free, and his tech specs for building the Doug Coil are open source and available to the public for free. Same with Dan Tracy. I'm sure they'd be more than willing to help you understand what tools and materials you'd need to evaluate your hypothesis.
Most of the people here apparently don't need proof since most of them are feeling better, but you and Dave and others do. Given that fact, you're the ones who would be most believable if your results did support it.
Posted by Porsche (Member # 7644) on :
M. Blue said:
quote:Most of the people here apparently don't need proof since most of them are feeling better, but you and Dave and others do. Given that fact, you're the ones who would be most believable if your results did support it.
Apparently proof for you is a few positive testimonials from people on the internet that may or not even be real. But this testimonial proof that you deem so valuable doesn't hold any water when it is negative? For you, If a few claim that it is working, then it is working. But it is still working in your mind when others say that it didn't help them. A bit of a double standard I'd say.
I haven't even said that I never tried it, you just assumed that I haven't because I am speaking negatively about it. I have actually used rife. I did it for a couple of years with and without abx. I made the decision to buy a machine in the beginning of my treatment because I didn't want to use abx. I didn't mention my experience before because it shouldn't matter. After all, it's only a testimony. The evidence speaks for itself, or the lack of evidence I should say. I would not buy a machine if I had it to do all over again.
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
My machine came with a huge sticker on it "For animal use only". They are only FDA approved on animals. So I use mine on the animal(s).
Pam
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
So Porsche you spent money for a treatment modality that wasn't successful. Do you feel you were duped into selecting a dead end?
I'm hoping you're not angry at others who you feel might have led you astray? I've done some things along the way that hindered my progress where I had hopes it would help. It does make you question others motives at times.
And if you have a huge list of folks who it hadn't helped could you compile one and post.
I agree with you, that it would be great to have proof one way or another registered in a medical journal or discussable by doctors. it's unlikely to ever happen. the same could be said for many herbals or homeopathy.
I've never used rife, however, that doesn't mean I don't think it has role in getting folks well. I've use many different items including MMS in getting well, which I believe is helpful. And yes I'm 100% well, I'm in the nat'l cap lyme support group. People know me there, my profession, and my transition in health as well as my motivations (specifically to help find a cheaper more expedient way for folks to get past this disease). I've learned to more totally trust alternatives over conventional. That's been my experience...
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
I give both negative and positive reports based on actual experience. I have no reason to make up results.
I do not think others make up results either, good or bad. Of course any single person could fabricating a story, but most people will give an honest appraisal.
Four years of experience tell me that a herx is from spirochetes dying, whether from frequencies, antibiotics, herbs whatever. It is not really that difficult to tell the difference between and adverse reaction and a Herx.
I think it is kind of amusing that while frequency treatments are on one hand considered useless, and not powerful enough to do anything. Yet they are fully capable of causing only a negative effect at the same time.
I never experience a herx, since I do not have Lyme. I always test myself first, to separate an adverse reaction from a Herx.
If a treatment of any kind did not work for someone there obviously is a reason. If you do not find out the reason, then you are pretty much stuck. it seems logical to try find out the reason for failure of any treatment that works for others.
I have done the research, and anyone else can do it also. I am not interested in proving anything. You can use it, or not. It makes no difference to me. I just report the results obtained from the treatments, good or bad.
Dan
[ 12-30-2009, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: D Bergy ]
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
To whom it may concern:
Please do NOT give out DT's phone number to those you DO NOT KNOW or do not have reason to TRUST.
If they are brand new to the board, please be careful!!!!! Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
I would like to hear what the naysayers think of this article from Jefferson Hospital of Philadelphia about frequency treatments.
D Bergy posted this on another thread. You need to download it and read the article on page 3.
tickbattler
Posted by Deb133 (Member # 18544) on :
Interesting and promising! This was the same doctor that was at one of the local lyme support meetings and was very impressive!
Posted by David Miller (Member # 21583) on :
tick battler, great find.
Here's what I think:
1) It sounds like promising research 2) I wish him the absolute best in his efforts. I'd love to see some sort of electromagnetic solution to some/many/most/all of the things that afflict us. 3) What he's finding pretty well confirms what we naysayers have been saying. Unless I don't understand how rife machines work; my understanding is that they work with a single frequency at a time. Holland says:
``I began to try different frequencies, and at first nothing happened. Then I tried putting more than one frequency into the organism simultaneously.'' Then a light bulb went on for Dr. Holland. ``If I added one additional frequency, in a special relationship to the first frequency, I'd be creating more power and have a better chance at landing on the frequency necessary to change the organism,'' Dr. Holland says. ``When I added the eleventh harmonic, I looked through the microscope and discovered that the microorganism had shattered. It reminded me of how a crystal glass shatters when a soprano hits just the right note.''
11! different frequencies at the same time with some odd harmonic doing the trick. That doesn't describe the sort of rife machines I've heard about.
4) It calls into question the whole medical industry would never ever let something like this come into existence attitude that seems common here. I understand that we're here pretty much because politics within the medical community has denied us the research and care we should be receiving, but we can't paint "them" all with the same broad brush.
In reality, if someone could cure cancer with electromagnetic therapy of some kind they'd win a Nobel.
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
Two frequencies, one frequency and the eleventh harmonic of that frequency. He also is using a machine with about 200 Watts of power, more than most of the machines we are using.
Rife used one carrier frequency and one other specific frequency that either destroyed or disabled a pathogen.
Laboratory tests do not have the benefit of an active immune system which probably does much of the work.
Cancer is one of the more difficult diseases for this method. Some recover very quickly, others do not and die from the disease anyway.
If I had Cancer, I would use frequency treatments, but I would also use several other methods to attempt to cure it.
Pancreatic Cancer is almost 100% fatal, so even if it works ten percent of the time, it will be a big help.
Dan
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
I believe rife works. I've used my GB-4000 twice, on Candida frequencies only. I have Candida in my guts,; it causes problems. I can hear it, and the problems are not subjective, they are objective.
Each time i used it, first my forehead fog cleared; , then it got very dense, much worse than usual; then the next day, my guts did not have the usual objective candida problems.
After the first time i used it, i waited 5 days, by which time the problems were back to the usual problematic condition. So i would have to rife more frequently to keep the candida down. (I also take everything i can think of, as candida remedies, but nothing works if i fail to keep a strict diet.)
Sorry to inject another testimonial,
----Polly Polygonum ----or Nilufar Knotweed
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
In reading the article from Jefferson. It is exactly what royal rife did in the thirties. He got a very high powered microscope and observed and documented how his frequency generator affected organisms. He also discovered that certain frequencies blow up the organisms. Similar to the guote from the Jefferson's Phd "shattering like glass".
I've never used rife, but I did use an LED another form of EM therapy. I'm 100% well today. However, I really feel a combination of rife and LED would be more powerful. Even possibly adding a medical tuning fork in the mix.
My point is the great number of options in the realm of frequency generators. There should be greater research in all these areas and in combination.
And like homeopathy, I wouldn't get any hope of this getting any real serious research. It will get squashed by the orthodoxy.
Posted by Porsche (Member # 7644) on :
Catskillsmama said:
quote: I am using rife with no other supplements or alternative treatments and I am symptom free. And I know many others with similar experiences. Plus I've had 3 MDs tell me off the record that it works.
Now compare it to what she says here in a recent post:
quote:
Author Topic: uh oh, I overdid it catskillmamala LymeNet Contributor Member # 12536 posted 01-02-2010 09:55 AM01-02-2010 09:55 AM
Hmm. Hoping this isn't a relapse. I overdid it. In the last two weeks I:
1) ate sugar (cheesecake, reese's peanut butter cups, christmas cookies, chocolate bar, chocolate cake)
2) chewed sugarless gum (has bad sweeteners) three times
3) worked like a dog packing my house for a move for 2 days straight
4) painted my husband's office in the new house
5) let my daughter and son sleep in the bed with me so I had a really, really bad night of sleep
6) drank an alcoholic drink (straight vodka) on 2 nights
Now, I am having extreme fatigue, major arthritic joint pain in hands and wrists, and trouble moving my arms and legs. I feel like the connection between my brain and my limbs isn't working right. Major sound sensitivity and touch sensitivity and I can barely tolerate being around my family. UGGGGHHH.
I am not on abx, and haven't rifed since Monday. I will probably do so today.
The first post makes her look like the poster child for rife. But then after 4 days of no rife and doing a few things that are considered normal, she has just fallen in a heap! She goes on to say :
quote:
Your "observation" that people on rife are going down hill should be backed up by links.
Thanks for the advice, and for this example. I haven't bothered to do this in the past, but this is fresh in my mind right now, and you have given me the opportunity to back up my observations for those that haven't already made the mistake of purchasing a machine yet. At some point in the future, you will most likely be back on abx in order to get stable again, even if it's only for a month, or 2, or 3. I doubt though if you will be posting that info from now on.
It should also be noted that ``major arthritic joint pain in hands and wrists, and trouble moving my arms and legs. I feel like the connection between my brain and my limbs isn't working right. Major sound sensitivity and touch sensitivity and I can barely tolerate being around my family `` are symptoms of Bart, Lyme, and other active infections. These are not Sx's one gets from simply doing a normal amount of work, and eating a few holiday goodies. So if this is your proof that rife is working for you, then you've fallen short as far as I'm concerned.
60 minutes did a piece a few months ago about a man that was using a rife type machine to kill cancer. It may or may not be the same thing as the jeffereson article posted above. I didn't download the article to check it out. But in either case, the man with cancer did make a remarkable recovery for a while. He did relapse however, and ended up dying, even after repeating the exact procedure that he believed had cured him the first time. You may think that his initial success proves that rife does work, but it's more likely that it was a placebo effect. I say that because this guy BELIEVED that it was going to work...and so it finally did after a sh**t-load of attempts. But then the results could not be repeated when he relapsed shortly after his initial recovery. Why was that? I think that it was because he had some doubt in his mind the 2nd time.
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
Porsche,
Catskill never claimed to be fully cured. It is my understanding that she is still in treatment. You should know by now that anyone with Lyme (no matter on what treatment protocol) can have relapses, particularly when they are not sleeping or eating well, so I don't really see the point you are making.
Believe what you want, but you have no credibility trashing something until you TRY IT YOURSELF! That's what this poster was looking for...actual experiences with it.
tickbattler
Posted by Porsche (Member # 7644) on :
tick battler said
quote:tick battler LymeNet Contributor Member # 21113
Icon 1 posted 01-02-2010 06:00 PM Profile for tick battler Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Porsche,
Catskill never claimed to be fully cured. It is my understanding that she is still in treatment. You should know by now that anyone with Lyme (no matter on what treatment protocol) can have relapses, particularly when they are not sleeping or eating well, so I don't really see the point you are making.
Believe what you want, but you have no credibility trashing something until you TRY IT YOURSELF! That's what this poster was looking for...actual experiences with it.
tickbattler , scroll up a bit and read all of my posts because you missed something. You should also read my remarks on this thread:
Her point was that rife works. My point is that it doesn't...it's a placebo
[ 01-08-2010, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
OK, you got me...I see buried at the bottom of your 4th post in this thread that you finally acknowledge trying rife.
Why not post that up front in your first post with a detailed description of how often you actually used it and whether you herxed or felt anything during the sessions, your treatment durations, and other relevant details? That information might actually be useful for us all.
tickbattler
Posted by secondtimearound (Member # 7249) on :
This debate has been like this for years here and it should so people hear both sides.
For Me:
I'll keep my machines and am interested in your machine Porsche if it is a GB4000 and still available (I am serious).
The truth is and I don't mean this in a bad or cold way - I really don't care if someone uses one or not it is totally up to that person. I make no money from anything associated with lyme disease and never will - that was one of them little promises I made in private when I couldn't get out of bed - I'm sure most people know what I mean: if I can just get better, I promise....
If you are around here long enough most people see that there are no guarantees that antibiotics,herbs or anything actually cure anyone - some are cured, all - no way.
Not everything works for everyone - for me and I made it back to 100% the last time and I'm pretty close now (after a new bite) my rife machines are a major tool in the battle.
All My Best
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
The Kanzius frequency treatment does not operate on the same principle as Rife frequency treatments, and Kansius did not die of Cancer to begin with.
John Kanzius died from pneumonia on February 18, 2009, aged 64, at a hospital near Sanibel, Florida, where he had a winter home. The pneumonia developed as complication after two recent rounds of chemotherapy.
He died as a direct result of standard Chemotherapy, not because of his frequency treatment, and not of Cancer.
Dan
Posted by Porsche (Member # 7644) on :
quote: He died as a direct result of standard Chemotherapy, not because of his frequency treatment, and not of Cancer.
Yes, but he had his own high powered rife machine in his garage where he experimented on himself. He finally went into remission during this process. Then he relapsed and could not stop the cancer with rife, so had to try more chemo.....then he died.
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
He had a frequency generator, but never ran any Rife type Cancer frequencies. He never used Rife treatments. That is just plain false by any measure. You find no mention of Rife concerning his treatment method. He may not even have been aware of Rife. If he was, he never mentioned him.
His treatment was with localized hyperthermia, using nano Gold particles which would be heated by the frequencies. More similar to radiation treatment, without the side effects.
There is no hyperthermic effect using Rife frequency treatments. The machines are not powerful enough to produce heat.
The Kanzius treatment is completely different experimental treatment still in the development stage.
I am not sure how this relates to Lyme and Rife type frequency treatments, as they are different treatments and different diseases.
As with all treatments, sometimes they work, and sometimes they do not. Especially true when dealing with Cancer.
Dan
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
I believe it's time to hit the ignore button. Don't waste your time with some people. They sure remind me of someone from our past????????????
Pam
Posted by Porsche (Member # 7644) on :
quote:He may not even have been aware of Rife
Heh heh....thanks for the laugh. If you want to split hairs, then yes, he used a frequency generator, which is what everyone else here is using. All those CAFL frequencies that people claim are helping them are not rife frequencies either, but rife is the word that has been used because the promoters of this scam have nothing else that's credible that they can use to sell their machines.
quote:His treatment was with localized hyperthermia, using nano Gold particles which would be heated by the frequencies. More similar to radiation treatment, without the side effects.
This is what he was devoloping with the help of others. He didn't use this procedure on himself because it might have jeopordized the project. It wouldn't have worked on his type of cancer anyways. But he did indeed use a frequency generator on himself using rife like frequencies.
You know where this very small rife following would be without the internet and all it's fake identities to keep it going? Absolutely no where. Rife's a zero, and zero times anything always equals zero. Rife X DNA (what a joke) freq = zero
[ 01-03-2010, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: Porsche ]
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
I'll report my progress with Rife as soon as possible. Whatever the end result, it'll be nice for me to finally get first hand experience. I don't have any obvious options left, so it only makes sense.
My specialist is encouraging and supportive. She told me patients that fail other therapies like I have sometimes surprisingly improve more effectively using Rife. Obviously they (Dr. H and his PA) said they've also seen plenty of people not improve using Rife.
MAP: I don't think any of us like to be patronized, so I understand. I can accept that behavior though. I accept it because I realize that people here are angry, frustrated and sick, especially when expensive therapies (proven or unproven) fail.
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Porsche, I don't even use a rife machine, but I'm stumped why you are so much about this. Really, isn't there better more productive ways to spend time healing?
Posted by catskillmamala (Member # 12536) on :
Ok, let me weigh in here for a second. I am feeling much better than yesterday. Lesson learned: don't overdo it.
Yes, I probably am still battling active infection. I have never claimed to be cured by rife. If I believed I was cured, why would I continue to rife? Indeed, if I was cured by Buhner herbs, or oral abx, or IV, why would I be treating at all?
What I believe is that sugar, alcohol and skipping sleep and working very hard lessened my immune response. When my immune response is reduced, I have a flare up of symptoms. I did before ever treating, when on abx, and it is the same on rife. But, no matter what you say, Porche, I am able to work full-time, drive, cook, and parent and I couldn't do that 18 months ago. There is no question of improvement, if it's placebo, I'll take it. Maybe the radical improvements on mepron and IV rocephin were placebo, too- at least in part, it's possible, no?
What I don't want to see and what I sense in your posts is INTIMIDATION. I will NOT stop posting my experience with rife and I will not stop posting about my personal experience, even if I suffer a setback. FYI- I did orals for 6 months, went off and relapsed hard. I did orals another 8 months and plateaued and then backslid before going to IV.
Please keep a civil tone. Actually, is it too much to ask for a kind tone? You don't have to believe in my treatment approach. I hope you find something proven and standard that works for you. Goodness knows I told myself I'd never do IV or rife.
But please speak with kind words, tone and intention. That is the best way to wellness for all of us. Porsche, I wish you good health in the new year.
[ 01-08-2010, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]
Posted by catskillmamala (Member # 12536) on :
Oh, and one more thing I must add after reviewing the thread. I will also post if I go back on abx or herbs. I am not in the rife business so I have no reason "hide" if rife treatment eventually fails me.
My goal is to get some support and to offer some first-person experience that other people can use to make their own decisions.
Much of my progress through this disease can be attributed to having others post their unscientific personal experiences on lymenet. I am trying to add to the dataset in an honest and forthright manner.
Posted by Porsche (Member # 7644) on :
Hi mama. Oh please don't try to discredit my comments by trying to label me as an angry person that has an axe to grind because of rife...... that's not the case at all, and my tone on this thread has not been an angry one. You are mistaken about that to say the least.
I'm glad that you are feeling better. Yes, I know that you never claimed to be cured. But you did make this claim:
quote: and I am symptom free.
Which brings up another point that I would like to comment on. I only hit on the ``symptom free'' part of this statement last time, so let's look at this part now: ``I am using rife with no other supplements or alternative treatments''
But in the ``I overdid it thread'' you made this statement''
quote: Thanks, July. I am trying to relax. I did rife and I am drinking green tea and trying to detox as much as possible.
So are you under the impression that green tea is not a supplement, and that heavy detox is not an alternative therapy?
Just in case you are, let me point out that green tea is considered a pretty good defense against malaria all by itself, and that it has some very strong immune building properties, not to mention its synergistic properties with other herbs, abx, and supplements.
Honestly, I'm not going after you on some vendetta for the comments that you made; I'm just using the opportunity to back up what I said before. I don't think that you lied about these things on purpose, but I think that it's important for others to see how people think; that a lot of chronically sick people are either not aware, or just plain forget to mention all the things that they are doing that might make a difference in any particular alternative therapy's perceived success.
Here's my point: Talk is cheap on the internet. No one can be sure what any person is really doing as far as other therapies, herbs, detoxing, exercising, and so on unless you are actually living with that person and are able to verify it.
The internet is probably the greatest tool to date for learning as far as I'm concerned, but it is also the easiest way for crooks to con someone with false information and fake identities. Our society is still pretty trustworthy overall, and then when you add sickness and brain fog and desperation to boot, it really makes it hard not to believe what seems to be a sincere testimony.
Whether you believe it or not, there are many fake identities on every health board that have been there for years, and new ones are continually added.
That's why internet testimonies are worthless IMO, unless I actually know that person. I want to see real evidence that something works before I spend a lot of money on it, or waste a bunch of precious time that I don't have trying it. This is what abx and herbs have...tons of studies and research that show them working on animals and in people, even when used against placebo's...rife doesn't have this.
Now to you that believe that rife is working. I believe that it is not, that you would do just as well without it if you were to continue with your usual supplements / vitamins and herbs and leave out the rifing. All you need is to have the same faith that you are putting in a placebo Tx, and a faith coach that will give you the assurance that you will need along the bumpy road to follow; someone that will be there to continually remind you that what you are attempting is the right path; that all the bouts of fatigue and brain fog to come will pass if you only stick with your belief.
Metalicblue: I don't believe that anyone can effectively judge whether or not rife is working by trying it unless they were to quit everything else. The typical rifer usually has a significant list of supplements, herbs, and detox methods that would make it impossible to rightly divide any improvement. At least IMO.
Posted by catskillmamala (Member # 12536) on :
The first time in my life that I drank green tea was with this symptom flare over the holidays. My detox methods include drinking lots of water and eating blueberries and I don't believe any of these things change the fact that over the fall I was symptom free.
Over the holidays I ate sugar, aspertame, alcohol, worked hard and lost sleep causing a symptom flare. None of this means that rife doesn't work. Please don't use me as the poster child for it working or not working. But as to opinions about what is working for me, I think if people care about my current status, they should listen to the utmost authority on me and that would be me.
FYI I am taking no other vitamins, not even a multi at this point and had exactly two cups of green tea in my life, both yesterday.
I hope you find real evidence that something works, so far I have not found that for anything, especially after relapsing from abx.
I do not believe internet testimonies are worthless. I took MMS and it nearly killed me and I try to enter every MMS thread to let people know that for me it caused a severe drop in platelets- to the point that I was at risk for bleeding. In addition, I relied on testimonies to figure out what was making my PICC line insertion site breakout- like others I was allergic to adhesives. Testimonials are valuable in both cases.
Indeed, if testimonials are worthless, why are you here?
And by the way, your comment "I don't think you lied about these things on purpose" is exactly the kind of comment I was referring to in terms of tone. You ARE accusing me of lying- just not on purpose. In fact, your post implies that I am so "chronically ill" that I cannot remember what supplements and detox protocols I am on. Not true. And I would be more than happy to have a pm from anyone who wishes to have more information about my protocol, etc.
What treatment are you pursuing, Porsche? Or are you just here to evaluate others?
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
Porsche-
Your tone and remarks on this thread are clearly angry and inappropriate. You call people foolish and ignorant and claim you don't have an angry tone? You can see by the responses of others on this thread the I am not alone with this opinion.
Your arguments are hollow and frankly don't make much sense. Why are you wasting your valuable time "that you don't have" here? And furthermore, if you don't believe in testimonials from strangers, than why are you even here? That's what this forum is - ANONYMOUS TESTIMONIALS!
Maps is right...time to ignore at this point.
Posted by springshowers (Member # 19863) on :
I agree.. Stop that back and forth and post your experience and opinion and move on.
No need to pick on or pick apart one person and keep on going and going...
You made your point.. So whats the deal..
If you do not believe rife works. All you have to do it post that.. and thats that..
If your hell bent on stopping people from trying it. You can not do that. We all get to choose our paths. Just like you do..
Live and let live..
You do not have the answers anymore than anyone more than anyone else does.. We are all just trying to help ourselves and we get to choose that route. That does not make anyone better than anyone else.
If you have proof of what does work.. Would love to see you post that.. for us all to see... and hey maybe you would grab my attention.
But there does not exist such a thing or we all would not be here.. now would we..
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
quote: Metalicblue: I don't believe that anyone can effectively judge whether or not rife is working by trying it unless they were to quit everything else. The typical rifer usually has a significant list of supplements, herbs, and detox methods that would make it impossible to rightly divide any improvement. At least IMO.
I agree, and that's exactly what I'd like to do. Additionally, the reason I'll be attempting Rife is after having evaluated a friend of mine after his 2 years of therapy. In 2006 he bought a used EMEM23D for about 500 dollars, just like mine. He began keeping a diary. The diary was primitive and simply included the frequencies he used during each session, how long the sessions were and the time frame between treatments, his symptoms, and a percentage of what he felt his function was i.e. 50%, 60% etc. I told him I would purchase a machine of my own from someone he didn't know if the results he had in 2 years were significant. I made it clear I would do this even though the report would be subjective.
He had been on antibiotics of various combinations for 3 years (From the start of 2002 thru the end of 2004). Unfortunately he got stuck at about 40-50% (He waxed and waned there, just like I wax and wane between 35-45%). He stopped treatment for a year in order to prepare for treatment. He fell extremely ill inbetween since he wasn't on any medications or any other supplements except for eating a "regular" diet, and taking plant sterols (Cholestapure) which is what his LLMD recommended he use while on Rife. He did gradually start exercising after a year of therapy, such as walking.
I told him I didn't believe Rife was an appropriate therapy for me to do at that present time. He didn't try to persuade me before or during his own process.
Once he was ready, he did his thing. When he completed the 2 year protocol he told me he was very confident in recommending the treatment to me given our cases were similar. He recommended it only after I requested his opinion. I told him "You have no proof it works though. Just because you're feeling better doesn't mean anything" His retort was, I'm 95% functional Mike, I feel great. I have a job, and I'm in a long term relationship." That's all he had to say. This kid was down to earth and I knew him well enough to trust his judgment since he and I worked together on the Myspace Lyme group that he founded. He had built boats with his father and was an avid civil war and Revolutionary Gun builder/collector before he fell ill. He kept carving the guns during his healing process he told me.
This kid and I talked constantly prior to his starting treatment -- 2 years actually. Once he began treatment however I tried intentionally to not talk to him very much so as not to be affected. In-fact, the 2 years passed by extremely quickly as a result. We spoke perhaps 3-5 times in the two year period.
So that was how I came to consider Rife a viable option. I bought my machine used from a young guy who felt he'd bought the machine prematurely, given he hadn't used antibiotics or herbal therapies. He felt his load was excessively high and thus even minor treatments with the Rife caused debilitating herxheimer reactions. Whether he was actually experiencing herxheimer reactions is unknown to me, but I trusted his judgment and he didn't try to sell me on it. He simply answered my questions. I asked for pictures and that was the end of it.
As anyone who knows me can imagine, I was extremely skeptical, but over time (In 2008), I began researching the results of other patients who performed a similar treatment pattern with the same machine that my friend had used. The reports were overwhelming, especially when I began talking to other people who I trusted too. I didn't follow their cases for "years" but I knew that for me personally, I could tolerate and trust their judgment as honest and worthy of consideration. The "average" consensus of the patients I spoke with was simple. They all made it very clear that it probably would not cure me.
When I spoke to people, I focused exclusively on those who "didn't" use supplements and who went off antibiotics before starting therapy and who remained disabled before therapy began (I defined disabled as unable to work).
I did a variety of research on Rife and felt the evidence was thin, but frequencies were being used in a variety of settings that demonstrated that it was possible that the claims people made might be reproduced. I felt the controversy was absurd surrounding Rife, but all I had to do was compare it to the current controversy of Lyme and long term antibiotics (which also had no objective proof via studies). It was obvious to me that while there was no proof and that hundreds of thousands of physicians around the world denied Lyme was Chronic, that it obviously was, since I kept coming up positive inspite of long term antibiotics. I felt better using antibiotics but better didn't mean "well." It meant I was no longer dying from the disease and was stabilized at 35% on most days.
So, will it work? I really have no idea but I've spent thousands of dollars in my own money as well as a million plus dollars over 20-25 years of my insurance companies' money) and wasn't healthy. Earlier in the thread I spoke about what I knew. I don't know if regular Rife machines sold perform as I described earlier but I do know that frequencies do cause damage to various cells and organisms if enough energy is supplied.
600 dollars (For the EMEM23D) and a commitment of 2 years of therapy seems harmless to me to at least try since nothing else has worked. I see Dr. H in New York. His PA is the one I really like working with and so I asked her (as well as his) opinion on the therapy. They said the results were mixed and the felt antibiotic therapy should be the first line. If treatment failed they said a lot of patients turned to Rife. Most flared up directly from using the treatment and decided not to continue, but some got much much better." I decided to also investigate further by having patients intentionally ask their LLMD's directly (As a favor), if they felt Rife treatment was effective in cases where antibiotic failure was present. Since I maintain one of the major LLMD lists and collect patient reports after they've seen the doctor, it was easy and very logical to use them to accumulate knowledge for my personal use on their dime. The majority of LLMDs said they "DID" feel it helped people but they didn't know why -- they each also made it clear they couldn't recommend it for legal reasons but they could give the patient their opinion and information if specifically asked about their observations. Some very well known doctors in the Lyme community did recommend it, but they are so cutting edge that I felt uncomfortable personally putting much weight on it.
After all of this, here I am. Does it work exactly as reported and claimed? I have no idea. Are there side effects that might hurt me? I have no idea. I've been on so many toxic drugs and tried so many alternative treatments it seems self evident to take the risk.
The reason I'm telling everyone this is so they understand what has motivated me to consider this avenue.
One last note. My friend who got well has not returned to the Lyme group (even to moderate) since reporting his recovery to me. He told me privately when asked that "I see no reason to take part in the group now, it self functions fine by itself and I'm well now. I don't know if I'm cured and I don't care. I'll continue to maintain my health by doing Rife monthly or every couple months. If I get sick again then you'll know because I'll be back immediately to try something else."
It's coming up on two years now and I haven't heard from him since, though I do see he signs onto his own myspace page occasionally. I'm very happy to have not heard from him.
Posted by Porsche (Member # 7644) on :
I wish you luck.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
If anyone deserves a break in their treatment, you do MB. Really hope rife works for you! Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
Thank you, both of you.
For anyone who wishes to see everything I've tried, I laid it out very systematically, including symptoms, history, and the who, what, when, where, why, and how regarding treatment.
Porsche...You really seem to enjoy stinking things up. I used to post regularly on the Lyme Friends website when I first began my Rife journey and I was torn apart by someone much in the same manner that you're tearing apart Catskill now.
I'm wondering if you're the same person? Of course if you are you won't speak up and say so, so I suppose that's neither here nor there.
Now, I know you're thinking, "But I tried Rife and it didn't work." Well, I don't believe you. I don't believe that you've ever been anywhere near a Rife machine. The good ole' "internet hearsay" thing is a two way street and judging by you're tone in this thread you just don't strike me as the "I'll try anything" type. You're point that anybody can get on the internet and say anything is well taken. I'll leave it at that.
For others that are still following this thread and are trying to get something constructive out of it I'll try my best to offer support and my personal experience with using Rife as my MAIN tool of treatment against Lyme and Babesia.
When I first began Rife I was tapering myself off of abx. It took me about 3 months after starting Rife to finally make the leap and stop abx all together. It helped greatly that my insurance cancelled me and 3 years of Lyme and Babs treatment had virtually wiped me out financially - I had no money left for abx and certainly not for my thousand dollar a month bottle of Mepron. Alas, I would have no choice but to rely solely on my machine to get well.
Let the journey begin. For the first month or so after stopping abx I felt GREAT. Very typical reaction. Because I was feeling so good I didn't use my machine. Right at the one month mark symptoms started creeping back in and I felt lousy. I used my machine, herxed my behind off and after about 3 days I felt much better. I repeated this cycle for many, many months until my symptoms lessened in severity and my flares grew further and further apart.
In the midst of all of this my Babs symptoms came back full force and I was pretty ill. I definitely had my doubts that my machine would have any impact on this infection, but once again, with no money and no health insurance, I had no choice other than to give it a go.
To my pleasant surprise minutes after using Babs frequencies on my Babs symptoms I was symptom free. In a matter of minutes I went from barely being able to walk b/c I was so ill to feeling fantastic. I was so ecstatic over this that I got on here and wrote a whole post about my experience. Nobody was more shocked than me that I had such a profound reaction. Placebo effect? I think not. You have to BELIEVE in something in order to reap positive benefits from it according to those that tout the placebo effect.
I used my machine against Babs for several months before finally getting rid of this infection. I got symptoms, I rifed, I felt better. I got symptoms, I rifed, I felt better, and on, and on, and on for months. I have not had any Babs symptoms since September and I have not used my machine for babs since then either.
As far as the argument, "Well how do you know it's you're machine when you're doing detox and taking multiple supplements and drinking green tea?" Of all the arguments against Rife this has to be the MOST ridiculous of them all. The same could be said of antibiotic users! I don't know of anyone on this board who takes abx and nothing else, be it vitamin C, probiotics, a multi-vitamin, some sort of B-complex, digestive enzymes or any other number of things.
So once again, this is a two way street. How do we REALLY know that they aren't seeing improvement from any of the above rather than their Cipro, Zithro, or Mino. Can their user reports be trusted?? Maybe they're all crazy! Heck, in light of all this perhaps all of us should just ditch whatever treatment we're on since we can't TRULY decipher what's helping and what's not. Of course I'm being sarcastic myself here...I just want to point out what a silly argument this is, and in my humble opinion it has absolutely no merit whatsoever.
At this point in my life, after a little over a year of using my machine I am 90%. I work full time, have the occasional drink and once again have a pretty full social life. Like Catskill, if I neglect myself and eat too much sugar, pull an all-nighter or drink too much alcohol I will get a flair in Lyme symptoms. So, I'm I cured? No. But I have a quality of life that I haven't experienced in years and never experienced on abx.
[ 02-01-2010, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Jenifer ]
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
Thank you, Lymielauren!
So what frequencies did you use for Babesia??
570? and?
Maybe you could post it on the other rife thread going now?
Thanks!
----Polly Polygonum ----or Nilufar Knotweed
Posted by lymielauren28 (Member # 13742) on :
Polly - thanks and will do!
Posted by springshowers (Member # 19863) on :
I say..
Be Happy for ANYTHING
Be Happy for ANYONE
That helps or feels better from this horrible disease no matter what it is .. or how it is done!
Great story Lauren
So glad to hear
Posted by lymielauren28 (Member # 13742) on :
Look, I don't want to argue with you or anyone else on this board. What really aggravates me is that you're lumping all Rifers together in one big heap.
I'm not against negative testimonies at all and I personally know of a person who bought a machine, used it for several months on many different known Lyme frequencies with ZERO results. I'm very curious and also puzzled as to why they had such a different experience from the one that I had. Why???
I wish I knew. I firmly believe that these testimonies should be heard right along with the positive ones so that the person buying the machine goes into it with an open mind and a healthy dose of skepticism.
That being said, I do think everyone that has chronic Lyme should spend the 400 bucks and at least try it. From what I can tell it helps more people than it doesn't, and the ones that are helped are usually helped drastically.
If they purchase a machine and it doesn't do diddly-squat for them then they can easily sell it and make their money back since most are on a waiting list for one anyways.
If you did use a machine and it didn't work - I'm truly sorry. I wish everyone could experience the profound results that I have and then there wouldn't be much need for this board at all. How awesome would that be?
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I just kind of skimmed through all of this. No medicine is 100%.
A big part of healing is based on belief. If you don't believe the treatment choice you are trying will work - chances are that it won't... This is true for many modalities, drugs, herbs, etc.
It's very individual. Even if there are studies & proof - it may not work for "you" in particular.
There are scientific studies from universities that frequencies can shatter pathogens. If you search for them, you will find them.
I haven't really seen any proof that the standard lab tests are 100% accurate, that the abx kill Lyme or co-infections, that herbs heal people 100% or that anything works 100% for everyone.
It's all very individual as to what will work & what doesn't. Most medicine is based on averages. There are always situations where people are outside of the norm - either for positive or negative.
Some things are frauds. We just have to give it thought & research to see if it's worthwhile. Alot of this dealing with Lyme & company is trial & error.
If the idea of Rife is not appealing - it's probably a good idea to try some other method. No reason to discredit it for everyone. Some people seem to be getting results with it.
I've seen alot more positive responses to Rife than negative ones.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
What is absolutely ludicrous about how to treat is the thought you buy something it's suppose to work as if there is some implied guarantee. Magnesium might help one person and not another. Vitamin C and salt helps one person not another.
Rife is a tool, nothing more, it may have its time in a treatment method, but it is one method only. It might be useless if there is potassium deficiency. Or it might be useless if your eating too much sugar and defeat the purpose.
To me testimonials are weighed, if it is 50 / 50 you have to determine how to get to 100 percent your self, what other supplements get you there. So far the testimonial are more then 50 / 50 for rife, and I really hope it doesn't hurt anyones feelings I said that. And I defy anyone to prove me wrong, but if you try show your statistics and how they were arrived if you dare.
By statistics, I would like to see at least 50 testimonials rife doesn't work, look them up on the internet. Have them post here. Also within the 50, the other things they were doing, the type of diet they were on. Whether they exercised, what kind of relationships they were in. To profile success versus failure isn't easy.
And by the way, Royal Rife proofed to the satisfaction of the AMA in the 30's that rifing kills pathogens. Rife has its place, we just have to learn better how to apply it.
I also agree with Sparkle about the power of believe. The use of meditation. There are sooo many avenues to consider in creating a successful result from any tool you engage into a protocol.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Thanks Bob. It's hard because the treatments take so long & we really don't know if anything gives us a permanent cure. Dealing with all of this is a big, time-consuming nightmare.
If people do get better from using a Rife - they probably want to do something other than sitting in from of a computer writing up their experience on a blog or message board.
Sometimes, they may stop treatment or try something else. So, we don't have alot of long term statistics as to how this all works out. The same can probably be said for treating with drugs, herbs, or other things, too.
We are all just doing what we can to try to have a life after all of this illness. We have to keep believing something is going to work.
Rife type machines put the empowerment to get well in our own hands, With all of the bizarre things we deal with in this illness - it's kind of comforting to know we have a huge list of "stuff" we can look through to treat with a machine we own. Even if it's 6 months or 5 years later.
I don't have a Rife but I'm seriously considering getting one.
Posted by WildCondor (Member # 434) on :
Rife did not help me at all. It seemed like quackery and potentially dangerous. I tried it repeatedly and it did not do anything. Some people feel Rife helps them. HBOT on the other hand has produced lasting excellent results.
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
Thanks for your report WC. Do you recall which type of machine you used? I investigated HBOT, and it was definitely something I wanted to do. Sadly I couldn't afford the costs for enough treatments to make a significant impact.
Anyone who can afford HBOT as apart of their therapy -- including those who do alternative therapies, or even Rife, should.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
On the line that wild condor brought up, that it didn't work for her (and thanks for the comment). It would be great if you could try before you buy. Somehow if those using rife would allow folks to try there machines before they make a purchase. Not all therapies work for everyone.
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
wildcondor,
Thanks for your comments. Can you tell us more about your experience? For example, when you were using your machine, did you feel anything? I have tried a friend's machine once for only 30 seconds and I felt a tightening in my head, so I know it was doing something. My husband felt this as well. Did you ever have any feelings like that during a session?
Thanks, tickbattler
Posted by secondtimearound (Member # 7249) on :
quote:Originally posted by lymie_in_md: It would be great if you could try before you buy. Somehow if those using rife would allow folks to try there machines before they make a purchase. Not all therapies work for everyone.
There are manufacturers that allow a 60 day money back guarantee - that is the main reason I bought my machines from where I did. 60 days should be plenty of time to find out if it does anything for you.
The problem with letting people try your machine is that you open up a lot of potential conflicts - I would be cautious who I let use my machines and I definitely would not turn it on for them.
Just be careful is all I'm saying - I would open my door to anyone if it were possible but I/we should make sure it is not being considered a treatment. I know I am not authorized to treat anyone.
All My Best,
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
It has always been a mystery how it can work for one person and not another.
I understand that happening with, for instance, my Crohn's treatment of using LDN. It is known to work about 70 to 80% of the time. Since it is altering the immune response, I can understand that is going to vary for each individual.
Frequency treatment for Lyme should kill Spirochetes, at the very least, in anyone. I noticed some do get a Herx, but do not improve otherwise. That makes some sense, as this can happen using any treatment.
I am not sure if it is a detox issue or what it is, but that problem is not so much a treatment problem, but something else. If four different treatment methods produce the same result, then you have to find out the reason for lack of recovery other than the method of killing Lyme. Certainly one of four methods should have produced some improvement.
What really puzzles me is no reaction at all, good or bad. That one I have no explanation for. I wish I knew the answer, because not knowing does not help anyone.
Dan
Posted by Porsche (Member # 7644) on :
Lauren said:
quote: I used to post regularly on the Lyme Friends website when I first began my Rife journey and I was torn apart by someone much in the same manner that you're tearing apart Catskill now. I'm wondering if you're the same person? Of course if you are you won't speak up and say so, so I suppose that's neither here nor there.
No, it wasn't me. I have never joined that group....I don't even go there to read either. I barely post here as you can see from my whopping 112 posts to date over a five year period.
Dig down a little deeper in your past, and I'm sure that you can find a few more bitter memories that you can heap on my back as well. Maybe a little psycho analysis will help. Maybe it will help to put an end to your need to continually lash out at others when they disagree with you.
You use the term ``torn apart'' to describe what happened to you and catskill both. I didn't see what happened to you over there, but I doubt if it's an accurate description of what really happened, based on what I wrote here. All I did was to give actual proof of what she claimed, and what she did in reality. It was all matter of factly laid out. I didn't attack her character as a whole, or try to make her out as some kind of evil person like you are trying to do to me. I attacked her argument with her own statements, because that's what people need to see.
Why is it necessary to use a real example? Because rifers believe that experience is king, and that no one's opinion means didley unless they have actually used it. It isn't enough to give examples from people that have found rife to be useless; it has to be first hand information from actual experience. But it doesn't stop there; if there are negative testimonies against rifing, well there has to be a reason like operator error or machine malfunction. And then finally if all else fails, attack the person and try to discredit their testimony as you and others have tried to do in this thread.
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
Why was this post brought back up again with the same posts as it had a week ago?
Either way, I saw my LLMD yesterday (Dr H in NY). They are encouraging me to use Rife now. They said "We have a routine for people who Rife that will support your treatment. The Rife is your decision, we don't know or suggest frequencies, but we can provide plenty of help in detox, heavy metals, and many other areas.
This was a shock to me. It was the PA who I saw and have worked with. She is brilliant. She did "not" prescribe or recommend this to me, but she seemed excited and happy about my decision to take it seriously.
At any rate I'm exhausting a few more antibiotics before starting. She prescribed ongoing Rifampin, Tindimax, Naltrexone, RX Chelex, Vitamin D3, Milk Thistle, Vitamin B6, (Multi Mineral), Lariam, Magnesium, Diflucan or VFEND, Ongoing Nystatin, VSL3/Theralac/Saccrymycin, ALA, and NAC, as well as Dr. Zhangs Hepa#2.
She also told me to get a Reverse Osmosis unit installed for fresh water. She told me I need to drink a lot, especially when I begin Rife. She told me once I'm done with the antibiotics, then I can start Rife if I choose.
Anyway, I thought this was exciting news since I'd never heard her so excited about Rife before.
Posted by Sheryl777 (Member # 17804) on :
Metallic, please let us know if they seem to like one machine better than another or whether they like several. They might not be able to state that for fear of the law. I mentioned to my LLMD that I was interested in rife, specifically an EMEM, but he didn't comment on it although he said a lot of people were helped by rifing.
Sheryl
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
They do not support any particular machine.
Posted by JR (Member # 16898) on :
"Who hasn't rife helped?"
Rife didn't help me one bit.
Posted by IckyTicky (Member # 21466) on :
Hasn't helped me because I have not been able to try it yet... that said, I have a personal friend who recently cured his own cancer using only rife.
Posted by springshowers (Member # 19863) on :
Hello Icky.. Thats great news.. Does that person have a blog or a place they told their story?
I am trying to introduce this to my mother as a possiblity for her cancer treatment and a success story would be a nice thing to be able to read..
Thanks Let me know .
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
For those of you like JR and wildcondor and others who say rife has not helped them, it would be so helpful to hear the details of your experience.
Can you share what machine you used and how often you used it and how long your sessions were and whether you herxed during or after it?
This is the type of info that would be really helpful.
Thanks, tickbattler
Posted by JR (Member # 16898) on :
Rife never helped me because I never rifed.
I followed Dr. B's guidelines and was treated for about 2 years. All better now.
Posted by j_liz (Member # 20496) on :
I just scanned the posts quickly, so I may have missed this...
I was surprised that nobody mentioned "THE CANCER CURE THAT WORKED". I am told that Dr. Rife did prove rife in the court trial mentioned (post said one patient died).
liz
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
Yes, I just saw the documentary about Rife. He did cure something like 13 out of 14 terminally ill people from cancer using his machine.
Have you read the book you mentioned above, liz? I am considering getting it.
See my recent thread about how to get the documentary if you want to watch it. I found it fascinating.
tickbattler
Posted by j_liz (Member # 20496) on :
My sis and I have gone halve-sies on a couple of Lyme books, it is one of them. She read it and was very excited about it. I haven't read it, because of my brain fog, but I may be able to read it now. Maybe when hubby picks up my Rife machine he can get that for me, too.
I am going to check out your other post about the docu. Sorry, I didn't get back to you sooner. I hadn't marked to get emails notification, I have now.
liz
Posted by Marnie (Member # 773) on :
Rife therapy, to work, requires the RIGHT frequency (scanned and pulsed) for the right amount of time using the most powerful machine made (which increases the depth of penetration).
It takes many treatments to be effective just as it takes MULTIPLE HBO "dives" to work...along with reducing inflammation simultaneously.
Bb is camped out in the MEMBRANES...very specifically the "basement membranes". Google that and see where they are.
Because it is so close to blood vessels, lyme becomes a vascular problem. "H16" is the category.
Healing takes TIME.
If antibiotics (alone!) worked, a few "rounds" should do the job.
Heating is key...how we heat the infected cells via "frequencies" or "lightwaves" or other means is key.
When our own defense cells are infected, Bb makes them "cold" and in we send the "de-icer" NaCl to Bb's pleasure...as it needs NaCl for motility and has a gene for Na-ATPase which does this: ATP-> ADP.
The infected cells are functioning solely on glycolysis (glucose for energy) and maybe becoming "immortal" (HeLa) cells.
Not good.
Bb triggers TNF alpha and (worse) IL1 B which together, in time will do a number on your pancreatic cells.
IL1 B blocks insulin release which activates an enzyme called PFK which Bb is dependent on....
Up goes glucose.
Many lyme patients develop diabetes, hypothyroid, etc., etc.
Porshe, do you know HOW your microwave oven works to heat foods (esp. those loaded with glucose)? Microwave ovens use frequencies.
And my Advantium oven cooks/heats with the "speed of light".
Before you try to say there is nothing to far infrared therapy too, you might want to look at this:
Recruiting Far Infrared Irradiation for Control, Management and Treatment of Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (ALS) Condition: Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis Interventions: Radiation: Far Infrared Radiation (5μm to 20μm wavelength); Radiation: Far infrared radiation
Recruiting Far Infrared Irradiation for the Management, Control and Treatment of Frontotemporal Dementia Condition: Pick Disease of the Brain Intervention: Radiation: Radiation: Far Infrared Radiation (5μm to 20μm wavelength)
Recruiting Energy Specific Far Infrared Radiation Treatment for AIDS Condition: HIV Infections Interventions: Radiation: Far infrared; Radiation: Far infrared radiation
Recruiting Far Infrared Irradiation for Stroke Rehabilitation Condition: Stroke Intervention: Radiation: Far Infrared Radiation
Recruiting Far Infrared Irradiation for Management and Treating of Parkinson's Disease (PD) Condition: Parkinson's Disease Intervention: Radiation: Far Infrared Radiation (5μm to 20μm wavelength)
Recruiting Far Infrared Irradiation for Managing, Control and Treatment of Huntington's Disease (HD) Condition: Huntington Disease Intervention: Radiation: Far Infrared Radiation
Recruiting Far Infrared Irradiation for Managing and Treating Multiple Sclerosis (MS) Condition: Multiple Sclerosis Intervention: Radiation: Far Infrared Radiation (5μm to 20μm wavelength)
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