okay so i already have possible kidney issues/damage but i'm wondering if there is anything i can do to help my gallbladder- it seems common that a lot of lymies have theirs removed- is this inevitable or can i do something to support it?? going to ask my nephrologist what test i can do for my gallbladder...
Posted by knshore (Member # 13451) on :
Are you on IV Rocephin? That's the reason lots of Lyme patients lose theirs....
I speak from experience.
If you are on rocephin, you can take actigall to prevent stones, but surely your LLMD would put you on actigall if you're on rocephin.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- As knshore says, It's usually just from the IV Rocephin.
And, as I understand it, you've not yet had any treatment for lyme. Even for those on IV Rocephin, there is an Rx to help prevent gallbladder damage and much good diet advice.
The nephrologist deals only with Kidney issues.
Since you have your first appt. with a LLMD on Wed. be sure to ask about this, too. If your gallbladder is inflamed, s/he can help you with that.
The curcumin is also a help in that dept. and I see from another thread that you take that. -
[ 12-29-2009, 03:37 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by learning721 (Member # 23798) on :
Nope no iv Rocephin yet- though i have heard this is good for people dealing with ALS symptoms??? I have been worried about that since i got sick.
I had just noticed a lot of the people who've had lyme a long time end up losing their gallbladders- i had one Naturopath tell me mine wasn't in good shape-
unfortuantly we don't have the resources for me to see a ND and my LLMD so i'm hoping my LLMD has a good ND that he takes advice from.
If i can somehow afford occasional visits we do have a good chinese MD that started an all natural practice. 495 for initial appt though.
Wow keebler, 10,000 posts- i will be taking your advice to heart. Posted by abigail (Member # 14936) on :
I don't understand why more people don't do Claforan wich does not cause biliary sludging. It's effect is comparable to the roceph per dr. B's guidelines.
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
Here's a quote:
QUOTE: Yes, there is lots you can do. (I'm not a doctor, of course). You can get rid of gall bladder sludging and gall stones easily and painlessly for pennies without losing your (his) gall bladder. You can do it with a liver/gall bladder flush.
I've done tons of them, including when I had horrific gall bladder sludging recently from rocephin (totally got rid of it, verified by ultrasound). I've also taught clients to do them for decades.
You can google the flush. Hulda Clark has one version. Although it's great to do a 5 day prep, you don't have time for this, and it isn't necessary when in a pinch. You could do it tonight and end the pain and suffering---or at least tomorrow am.
I've coached people in horrible pain from a gall bladder attack through a flush in one night that relieved the pain right away. (I'm not trying to promote myself, just that it works).
PLEASE, please try it. We have gall bladders for a reason! And there is no danger and no pain, just relief. It's sad that doctors don't know about or promote this (or can't, due to our medical complex). Rumigirl LymeNet Contributor Member # 15091
UNQUOTE
Posted by zombie (Member # 23294) on :
Two different people I know who were having painful gallbladder attacks got them under control by drinking herb tea made from 'chanca piedra' AKA break-stone, chancha piedra, Phyllanthus nururi.
Drinking freshly made beet juice and eating raw or fermented beets and dandylion greens is also beneficial, as are coffee enemas (the coffee stimulates the liver/gallbladder to dump its load of toxins into the colon whereupon the body quickly excretes them).
Here's some really good herbal info I found at the group:
"Just to clarify for everyone: Chancha piedra is Phyllanthus nururi. Chancha piedra being the name of which it is known in South and Central America (nickname breakstone). It is a staple herb in Ayurveda and Unani Tib as well, being known in Sanskrit as bhumy amalaki. I could wax positively for hours on this herb. This is one of the finest "liver" herbs on the planet. A couple of stand out qualities: Along with bupleurum falcatum (hare's ear, thoroughwax) both herbs have been shown to increase the bodies production of interferon. Making them both spectacular antivirals as well for retroviruses such as hep C for instance. It is however critical not to take them if on interferon therapy for a form of interferon induced pneumonia can occur (better to get of the interferon.. . nasty, nasty stuff. Phenomenal when you make it, destructive when they add it exogenously) . Probably one of the most important aspects of phylanthus is that it is not only liver detoxifying and liver protective but is also know in ayurveda as liver regenerative. Keep in mind that the liver is the most regenerative organ in the body outside of hair, skin (including the lining of the digestive tract), and nails. Cool huh?
The miracle is that we are still living and breathing after all we have done to ourselves. These and other liver herbs such as coptis, rhubarb, golden coin grass (lysmatchia) , etc. help to dissolve stones by increasing the production of bile thereby thinning out the sludge and eating away at the conglomerations. Other herbs contain terpene compounds which are volatile oils that help to break up and disperse masses. Boldo, peppermint, oregano, etc. Point being; give it the double whammy if you like. And then there are either the bile acids themselves or acids that have a similar effect such as acetic (vinegar) and malic (apples and other members of the malus family). Keep in mind that bile is composed mainly of water (the more the merrier by the way), bile salts (bile acids bonded to minerals), cholesterol, lecithin (an essential emulsifier), and bilirubin (dead red blood cells, or technically the pigment thereof). So the secret to the dissolution of the stones is the balance of the above constituents. Water, lecithin, bile acids, being dissolving. Extra bile being dissolving. The terpenes being dissolving.
Also keep in mind that dissolving gallstones is just one part of the issue. Other parts may include but are not all inclusive such as: How did you get them in the first place? Diet, lifestyle, hormonal dysfunction (thyroid), etc. Liver dysfunctions; Drinking in excess, hep, other illnesses such as viral or bacterial. As most have found out in this group: This is the beginning not the end. If one thinks that they can just do a flush, release their stones, and go on living the same way they have, they may be in for a very unhappy surprise. I am amazed at the way that some people on this group have totally restructured their lifestyle in a positive way and embarked on a whole new way of living and in some cases learning..."
Posted by learning721 (Member # 23798) on :
i have actually done 2 hulda flushes- but the problem is the epsom salts- they are NOT recommended for kidney issues... so i really don't want to keep up with that and was hoping i could find something else-
thanks about the beet juice thing- do i have to juice the beets myself or can i get the juice in a can?
I do have an enema bag for the coffee thing...just shy to try something new again- how many have had success with this? THanks so much for the responses
Posted by RDaywillcome (Member # 21454) on :
According to Dr.Oz, people who do colon cleansers, only enjoy the feeling! They really don't do anything else. Drinking the coffee and eating fiber, will do what your looking for.
Posted by RDaywillcome (Member # 21454) on :
A lot of non-lymies, also have their gallbladders removed! My opinion on this? You've already had problems, and a herxheimer sends it into overdrive!
Posted by Pinelady (Member # 18524) on :
Hey ! If EVERYBODY does something, it MUST be right, eh ? Posted by learning721 (Member # 23798) on :
massman- i've been thinking along the same lines- Pinelady- what is the "R" you are talking about- rocephin? RDaywillcome- i'm sure my gallbladder was already suffering from lack of care on my part- from however many parasitic infections i have going on...
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
2 lines say an awful lot massman and states the reality of the situation very well.
So if massman is correct flushing probably yields only so much based on the health of the organ. So helping the organs rebuild is also a requirement for a better outcome then surgery as well as flushing. It may also take a bit more time, so constructing a plan is in order if you want to avoid surgery.
You are probably not digesting fats really well. So, I would limit fats to coconut oil and olive oil only and not to much of that either. Stay away from nuts and limit seeds. Lots of dandelion greens in the form of pestos in the diet for awhile. Lots of fresh squeezed lemon juice. You probably should look into the KPU discussions.
Hulda cleanse should be put on hold for awhile as well as coffee enemas. You could support the liver with a cup or two of liver detoxification teas, should help the gallbladder as well.
You might try some herbal remedies as well. It is better to try everything first before you let the surgeon into your body, read the following link:
- Yes, exactly as massman said: "Flush a stressed organ = beat a tired horse "
Gallbladder or liver SUPPORT can be a very different thing from a flush or detox "event" for a hot and irritated organ.
Zombie's suggestion is a very good one: 'chanca piedra' AKA break-stone, chancha piedra, Phyllanthus nururi.
This sort of approach is nurturing and nourishing to the body, purposeful but not forceful.
Acupuncture, too, can be very helpful, along with an herbal formula prescribed by the L.Ac or ND. Some DCs and DOs also have some manual therapy techniques or other nutritional wisdom for gallbladder comfort. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- WORKING RESEARCH LINKS - to keep handy for just about any question. These are just a few of many good sites.
It is ALWAYS best to have professional guidance with someone who has a specific degree and years of study in this area.
The top sites are not specific to lyme but, nonetheless, provide a gold mine for learning.
The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook (Tilltotson, et.al.)
You can search here first, for detailed explanation on how different organs or systems function and, then, details about specific healing diets and also about certain herbs.
A search here for ``gallbladder'' brings up many informative pages.
They have a wonderful library of articles exploring body functions and support measures including diet and self-care - as well nutritional supplements (vitamins, minerals) with some discussion of a few common herbs.
Each of their articles is supported by varied citations, documenting the origin of the research.
Raintree's extensive website on the Amazon Rainforest features 100's of pages and pictures and facts on rainforest plants, preservation and destruction.
Third party research backs up their informational articles. They list dozens of research links for each herb or formula.
- PubMed is a clearing house of sorts for medical abstracts appearing world-wide. There are many abstracts reporting nutritional supplement (vitamins, minerals, enzymes) as well as research on plants (herbs) used in medicine.
As not all good articles are abstracted at PubMed, it is just a starting site - and there are more specific ones in the field of plant medicine. If one chooses to look further, going to the publication that published an article of interest often provides a wider window.
It's all in the name. Common herbs names may bring results - or not. And each herb has at least two formal names. It's good to search under all the names.
Stonebreaker - zero
Chanca Piedra - zero
Phyllanthus niruri - 67 abstracts
- but, with a different spelling, many more:
phyllanthus nirurii - 477 abstracts
And, among those, #7 really grabs my attention:
Adulticidal and larvicidal efficacy of some medicinal plant extracts against tick, fluke and mosquitoes.
If you choose to see a doctor or health professional, you might want to find how much bile is being created. There was a time when I was reconstructing gall bladder and liver function, I needed to supplement with bile salts for a short time. If the body isn't producing enough bile that is problematic as well. Or bile levels diminish, bile is recycled from the small intestine. Too little bile slows the whole digestion process.
If I had to guess, bile creation and recycling is a joint function of the liver and small intestines (all so a home for candida issues). Lymies tend to have sluggish livers, I suspect some lymies don't produce enough bile, throwing digestion off balance. Just my own thoughts. If you think you need a test, ask the doctor about a serum bile acid assay which can confirm a sluggish liver as part of the problem.
Bile salts aren't for everyone so please ask a practioner.
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Thanks a lot keebler, now I'm going to have spend time reading Tilltotson's book! After reading just a few parts, it will help me understand herbals even better... Thanks... Posted by RDaywillcome (Member # 21454) on :
Gall Bladder and Apendix are not major organs, so don't worry about loosing it!
Posted by massman (Member # 18116) on :
"Gall Bladder and Apendix are not major organs, so don't worry about loosing it!"
Worry ? YES ! We can live without these organs, but will we really be well without them ?
Why did God give them to us ? For MDs to cut out ?
Mixed herbals designed to rebuild organs are available from:
My gallbladder pain is totally gone. I googled for a gallbladder diet and only buy the foods which are allowed. You have to really follow the rule. No hydrogenated fats...It tooh about 2 to maximum 3 weeks.
Dr. Z sells a medicine called Gall 1. It helps also.
The gallbladder helps the liver. Any surgery is a risk, why not just slowly cure your gallbladder by eating the right food.
Posted by learning721 (Member # 23798) on :
THANK YOU everyone! Thanks for all the links Keebler
I have heard mixed things about whether we need our gallbladders or not but i do agree that God must have put them there for a reason...
I would love to learn more about what foods are good for the gallbladder-thanks for the tips
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[bonk]](graemlins/bonk.gif)
![[bow]](graemlins/bow.gif)
![[lol]](graemlins/lol.gif)
After reading just a few parts, it will help me understand herbals even better... Thanks... ![[woohoo]](graemlins/woohoo.gif)