You have to reak of it. You have to smell so bad that others walk out of the room when you walk in. It is best to just try Zhang's allicin and you won't last two weeks. No one does.
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
I take 4 or so cloves of raw garlic a day, to fight candida in my guts.
I don't smell of it and my husband doesn't complain---- this is a bad sign. I assume it means it isn't being absorbed because of candida blockage or something in the gut.
I have taken more at other times. I suppose i should take more now.
----Polly Polygonum or Nilufar Knotweed
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
There are a few garlic-related threads in the 'herbal links' in my signature- take a look. Some people were juicing garlic, or crushing it first- I did this for a while and it was very nauseating to me, but it seems to help others. It has a lot of health benefits so there are different reasons why different users take it, not necessarily for Lyme itself.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- A good LL ND once told me to be very careful about raw garlic. Some do okay with it but it can actually burn a hole right through the stomach so it is good to be taking it in the middle of a meal.
I have read in a book just about garlic that more than 2 cloves a day can contribute to anemia but it did not say why.
that book is: Garlic Healing Powers by Bernard Jensen, Ph.D. - it is not a book about lyme at all but still has some wonderful research notes.
And, as the allicin is actually very quickly sort of evaporating from the moment garlic is cut, I've read that it's best to put a small clove whole in the mouth, barely push on it with the back teeth and then swallow hole. Again, in the middle of a meal and only if one's stomach seems to handle it well.
Amazingly, I've done well with that and have just forgotten about it. And my stomach or mouth usually can't handle even very mild Thai food. At the first sign of burning, I stop for awhile.
Allicin capsules do not burn my stomach and I can even take them without food if from Hepapro, which I think are the absolute best. ( www.hepapro.com )
The capsules are far stronger than any amount of raw garlic that we could safely consume. But, especially where money is tight, raw garlic can be a nice helper as long as it can be tolerated. Never push it. Never. It's really hard to repair the lining of the stomach.
For times when I may have come close to it being too strong, DGL, a form of licorice has helped soothe stomach tissue. You can google that and find it nearly anywhere such as www.vitacost.com
Foods that seemed to help protect and carry it: a thick veggie-lentil soup, maybe with some gluten-free whole grains such as quinoa or a black rice.
ORGANIC is always best - in fact, I think it's not just best but required as there are too many farm chemicals otherwise. -
Posted by missextreme (Member # 3610) on :
So, if I eat one clove, finely ground up through my Norwalk juicer in a salad, is that too much? Will it burn a hole?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- By the time it goes through a juicer much of the allicin has been destroyed. It will still have some good properties but the most important part will no longer be very high. It is destroyed from the minute it starts to hit the air.
That is why not breaking it until in your mouth is best. Or the capsules which are specifically designed to have higher amounts - if a good brand such as Hepapro or Biopure.
you can still eat and enjoy the garlic and get some benefits.
As for if it would burn your stomach, no one can say. If you feel fine from it, great. If you start to feel some burner, back off.
For me, a salad would not be enough food density. I would need some more solid veggies or legumes and some grain. But you seem to be doing fine with this so just listen to your body. -
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
What about sauteed garlic cloves? Will that work too or not?
Posted by missextreme (Member # 3610) on :
Your point about the allicin being destroyed makes sense. But how can your body digest a barely chewed garlic clove? Is that why it burns? If I eat barely-chewed foods I have stomach problems too.
My juicer just finely chops it and then I eat it within a minute. I have the salad with a meal of potatoes or soup or something else. If it ends up hurting, should I feel it in my stomach or will it burn farther down in my intestines?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- If you are doing fine, don't worry about it. I think you would feel it in the pit of your stomach first.
If you start to feel some burn, back off, take some DGL and perhaps a little L-Glutamine powder to help heal stomach tissue (not too much, though as too much can increase glutamic acid in the brain, an excitatory neurotransmitter that can increase agitation). Marshmallow root and slippery elm powder are also good to have on hand, in addition to DGL for stomach lining healing.
But as for the allicin, the very instant air hits it, it's gone. Going through a juicer is a harrowing experience for the allicin itself.
Amazingly, yes, the body can digest a whole clove, one small enough to swallow whole with the rough end cut off (so as not to cut your throat) and the other end trimmed so it's not sharp or pointed so likely as to get stuck.
As you'd smash it a bit with your teeth, starting the process of allicin release, just before swallowing. It breaks it just enough to fall apart in your stomach once it gets in with the mix of food.
It's a good idea to read more from several good authors about all this. I am not an expert.
I will convey what a very good LL ND told me, though, that he had seen some serious burns from people overdoing this. There is no way you can get the amount of allicin your brain would need to kill off spirochetes just from eating garlic.
Again, while you can get some benefit if your body can handle one or two cloves a day, the allicin capsules are designed to supply a much larger amount, also designed to cross the blood brain barrier by the way it's made.
However, as I have very few pennies anymore for any treatment, if all someone has is garlic, as long as their stomach will safety accept it, in safe measure, it can offer some help for various things.
Even though heat destroys the allicin, even cooked garlic still has some good properties. Enjoy. -
Posted by missextreme (Member # 3610) on :
Wow, that's some really helpful info. Thanks. I haven't heard it before. even with all the mumbo-jumbo I've read about the benifits of garlic.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Has anybody heard of rubbing garlic cloves into your hair before bed?
Supposed to be good for hair regrowth.
I was also wondering... if Borrelia and other bacterias are known for "camping" out in our hair follicles... would garlic cloves not be an ideal way to stir them up and kill some off?
Makes sense to me...
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- I think that would just burn the hair right off your head. It could also cause real burns, bad burns - and blisters.
Avalon Organics makes a Rosemary (or is that Thyme) shampoo. That's the most aggressive I'd get with my tender scalp. It works very well, BTW.
I'm more concerned with the spirochetes INSIDE my skull. If anything really likes to camp out on the scalp, fungi would be the main party-goers. The Rosemary (or Thyme) Shampoo does the trick.
But, for those with true Celiac, it should be avoided due to containing wheat protein. For those who just need to be on a gluten-free diet but who are not true celiac, this should be fine, topically.
It does sound like a good idea, but I would be scared I would smell-off all the eligible bachelors in town. Being in my early 20s and a nice young Christian girl, I even plan when I eat my garlic so as have the men smell me in public.
The question is, how many hours does it take for the Garlic Stench to dissipate after you eat it?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
-
PLEASE search at Google: "garlic burns" you will find important cautions.
===========
On the other matter of garlic aroma - Look to the ethic communities that so wisely eat lots of garlic.
There are some wonderful Mediterranean restaurants, Italian, Greek, etc. . . . Indian food, too. And more, I'm sure.
Geez, any guy who doesn't like garlic is not much of a guy. Bet there are some guys out there worried about the same thing.
Stand up for your right to enjoy garlic. As a cologne: a touch of essential lemon oil (with an almond oil carrier oil so as not to burn) can help.
Eat lots of greens, too. Chlorophyll. -
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
. . . suffered minor second-degree "garlic burns" on the two sites where the compress were. Symptoms included blistering, heat, and redness . . . .
. . . * Garlic burns have occurred in cases where garlic was directly applied to the skin to try to treat asthma, skin lesions, and fever. . . .
. . . * If properly treated with prescription topical antibiotic cream three times a day and covered with sterile gauze, wounds [i.e. the blisters and burns from garlic] should heal within four weeks or so. . . .
. . . GARLIC is to be ingested in moderation and NOT applied to the skin. . . .
Hey does anyone know where to get garlic seeds for the different varieties of garlic? Or maybe somewhere to just buy the different varieties? I'm wondering because the plain white garlic at stores just eats my stomach up. So I thought i'd give the other kinds a shot and see if I can handle those better.
Posted by c3mom (Member # 16412) on :
I have eaten up to 7-8 cloves a day and they were not the skinny cloves. Yes, they were a bit warm, but everybody has their own level of tolerance.
I found it to be very helpful in fighting my Bart infection.
Posted by c3mom (Member # 16412) on :
Pryorka, try Territorial Seeds.
Posted by pryorka (Member # 13649) on :
Thanks c3mom, you must have a stomach of titanium, either that or I have a stomach of silly puddy.
Posted by MagicAcorn (Member # 8786) on :
I find elephant garlic a lot less offensive on the stomach and the senses.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Elephant garlic is less strong but also without the same medicinal value as it has less allicin.
Enteric-coated capsules from an organic garlic with a high count of allicin are really the safest as they don't generally open up until further down the digestive track where it's a bit easier to handle. -
Posted by missextreme (Member # 3610) on :
What is the difference between elephant garlic and a regular nice white bulb? What does it look like?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Garlic does in nature, while it is growing, what it does in your gut - it absorbs toxic metals and environmental toxins from the ground, water, and air.
To be safe and to avoid adding more to the toxic body burden, I was instructed to use only organically grown garlic.
I used freeze-dried ORGANIC garlic, 3x3 capsules (sometimes 4x3) a day. It was my main regimen for a very long time and it got me out of the darkest valley of Lyme.
I still use some today. Opening the capsule into a bit of warm water is easy and taking it that way between meals avoids the timing in and around meals to avoid destroying the alliin.
Here is one of my very old posts - a collection of what I heard from Dr. K. at Conferences over the years:
GiGi Frequent Contributor Member # 259 posted 10 March, 2006 01:57 PM ________________________________________ just one of the global approaches to bugs.....
I am posting for you my collection of "remarks" by Dr. K. The small paragraphs are unrelated. I heard one remark at one time, another remark was made at another time. The main thing to learn to understand is........
In essence, this is what he said:
Don't try to pinpoint the specific bugs. We are treating an eco-system within us.
It is estimated through some newer studies that at any given time there are about 400 bowel bacteria that can currently be diagnosed, but science already knows that it estimates the number of different species in our bowel to be closer to 20,000. That means out of some 20,000 bugs, we only can diagnose 400. And the question comes up -- `what's the point?''
Let's do a global treatment for it. Let's raise specific immunity to the bugs. I use freeze-dried o r g a n i c garlic which is fantastic when it releases its allicin for its global anti-infectious effect.
Let's look at what the metals are doing to the person, and kind of undo that part so the body can do the rest. It's really kind of going back to the old naturopathic principles.
When you move mercury in reverse through the tissues (by DMPS shots, or other agents), you have to give Vitamin E and Garlic as protective agents in the blood, otherwise you get a tremendous amount of oxidative damage in the blood.
Vitamin E protects the system very strongly while mercury is moving out from the system. Vitamin E and garlic protect the red blood cells and the white blood cells while mercury is coming out backwards from the cells to the connective tissue, out in the bloodstream stream and out through the emunctories. The blood needs to be protected. The Vitamin E is doing a great job. I am not totally sure that alpha tocopherol anymore is the right one. That was the one in the literature, but at the time there was nothing else available. There is lots of literature now about gamma tocopherol being the far better agent, and there is a conflict between gamma and alpha. They neutralize each other, and there are the tocotrienols now, so I am not sure about the ultimate..... the research that was done on the protective effects of Vitamin E was done on the cheap over-the-counter alpha tocophereol.
************************************************************************We want to support the toxin removal via the gallbladder and bile duct. And again, the psychological work shines here. Coriander (Cilantro tincture) is incredible for the gallbladder and Taraxacum (dandelion) and Garlic and Bear Garlic (which is a form of European wild garlic) which is fantastic in its properties.
I have a whole lecture on garlic. There is a principle that applies in detox that is very important for you to understand. In the old days, the treatment of syphilis was giving people high doses of mercury. That's because mercury was an effective antibiotic for syphilis. Beethoven died of mercury poisoning from syphilis treatment, that's why he lost his hearing. Mozart died of mercury poisoning, which is not known in the U.S. It is known in Austria, but they kept it as a little small secret, so he could be the hero out there and not be shamed in that way. But it is important. Yes, Mozart didn't die of TB; he died of mercury poisoning.
Some people died because it killed the body before it killed the bugs, but just follow me mentally, and sort of know: Imagine you have somebody who is full of amalgam fillings and has high mercury levels in their system, and they get bitten by a Lyme spirochete. What will that do to the Lyme spirochete? It will control it somewhat in the system. Right? The daily dose of mercury coming in the system will suppress the Lyme spriochete.
Now what is going to happen if you remove the amalgam fillings? The Lyme disease suddently starts burning like a wildfire, and mostly because the Lyme spirochete recover from the mercury poisoning much quicker than the cells of our immune system do. That's a big enigma in our thing, that we do detox and some patients get clearly worse. And it's always the same; they've got Lyme disease or some other infection that was controlled before with mercury.
Suggestion: How about controlling the infection with something else, like some nice herbs instead? The nicest herb that we have found is freeze-dried garlic. There is fantastic literature. There is Dr. Zhang in NY who tracked the treatment of syphilis in China, which was always done with garlic very, very successfully. So we give people high doses of freeze-dried garlic, 3 capsules after each meal, 3-4 times each day. We work slowly up to it. Once side effect is that the worms come out, and giardia and amoebas get killed. We have got all the literature. H. pylori die from it. Most Herpes viruses disappear from the system. So those are the side effect of garlic, that you clean up the gut, but it is also very, very potent in the treatment of Lyme Disease and the other co-infections.
Now, when we struggled a little bit with the issue that the freeze-dried garlic we had available so far was not organic. It was grown in China, and we know about the uncontrolled pollution of herbs and stuff in China, so we now went to an organic source of freeze-dried garlic, which is slightly more expensive, but is fantastic, and I recommend the use of that. Biopure carries it. and it is produced by very close friends of us who constantly check the whole production - from where and how it is grown to here. That is a very important issue, because garlic binds toxins very naturally. It is strong because of its sulfa compounds, and if it's not grown organically, it is already full of stuff we don't want.
Freeze-dried garlic is a very very important co-treatment when you detox somebody to keep the infections at bay that you otherwise may unleash, to give the immune system time to recover. The immune system usually takes between 1-2 years to bounce back, and in that time when we give the freeze-dried goat whey, it has all the transfer factors and the immunity that the mama goat transfers to the baby goat; so we are basically treating the mercury toxic patient like the baby goat that needs immune support, and it needs the knocking down of the bugs with the garlic.
These are two aspects that are overlooked in, I think, pretty much everybody else's detox programs. You cannot do detox without addressing the infections that are in there. It's an ecocystem that you are changing and you can't just do one intervention. You have to treat all the players with it.
Bear garlic, also called European Garlic, versus regular garlic: Regular garlic is what most of the studies were based on. However, in Europe there is a tradition for about 2000 years, the old Celts every spring when bear garlic blooms (it doesn't form a bulb like garlic does), used it. It's a leaf actually that has all the allin in it that then converts to allicin, and the old German tribes used it. Even Caesar wrote a book on that, a small section on it. In spring, the Celts had the habit of trearing out the bear garlic leaves and eating them.
For the old Germans, it was their parasite cleanse in spring - by eating the bear garlic leaves. They also attributed to it that they got supernatural male powers from it - so it was an aphrodisiac as well and gave them a certain sense of supernormal strength.
A friend pharmacist, did a comparative study on the ingredients and found on a per gram basis, there is more alliin, which is the precursor, there's more alliin and alinase in garlic. Alliin is the active, the holy substance in there. Then the moment you chew it, the enzyme that is released in the cell wall of the alinase, and it converts alliin into allicin. Allicin is the most potent plant anit-microbial agent ever studied. So bear garlic has more of that in it.
The trouble with bear garlic: A couple of papers were published by Dr. K. in Germany and then it became the most popular wild plant in Germany, already with the effect that in only 12 years, the amount has been truly decimated. It only grows naturally, you can't cultivate it in farms. It has to grow by riverbanks. So it's not sustainable at the current rate of use.
Shift to the garlic that can be gown in farms organically.
Garlic is a medicine. Let's not tell anybody, because at the rate we are going with use of herbs, mushrooms, chapparal being taken away, etc., as soon as a study is published showing medicinal effects, ........ one day we will not be allowed to eat garlic anymore, or eggs, or drink milk because it's turned into medicine............................
Most studies are done in Eastern countries - for obvious reasons???!!!
Take care.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
GiGi,
So you can take the capsule form 3-4 times per day?
Freeze-dried capsule form?
Maybe i missed it in the reading... you're not buying raw organic garlic, right? Just a product already in capsule form? Keep refrigerated?
Do you have a link to this product so we can all read more info on it.
Sorry bout all the questions : )
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Yes, capsules. See BioPure bottle about refrigeration. Hepapro's brand does not require that but it should not be in too warm of an environment, either.
Allicin Capsules (60 capsules/bottle, for lyme 10 day supply) [but check according to weight]
Proprietary extracts of: 130 mg garlic bulb. Every capsule contains 20mg of allitridi. Other ingredients: Gelatin and cellulose.
Dose is according to weight for lyme patients. Inquire at Hepapro when ordering as Dr. Z. has an insert with a chart on it to find the most effective dose, considering a person's weight.
Note, while not labeled organic, you can call and ask about their quality control practices. I find them to be excellent in that regard.
Allicin is only PART of Hepapro's protocol but it can certainly be taken by anyone on other protocols as well.
. . . Garlic bulb contains volatile oil, of which alliin is the major constituent. When the fresh bulb is macerated, alliin is decomposed into allicin by allinase. Allicin is the characteristic odor of the garlic.
Allitridi is a highly purified and concentrated garlic essence and is the precursor of allicin. When it is metabolized in the body, it becomes allicin and displays its characteristic odor and pharmacological actions. . . .
. . . . -
[ 01-04-2010, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Could eating a garlic clove cause a herx within the hour of eating it?
I had a couple garlic cloves last night... and about an hour later I was pretty sore in some spots.
Interesting.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
GiGi,
So you can take the capsule form 3-4 times per day?
Freeze-dried capsule form?
Maybe i missed it in the reading... you're not buying raw organic garlic, right? Just a product already in capsule form? Keep refrigerated?
Do you have a link to this product so we can all read more info on it.
Sorry bout all the questions : ) GiGi,
Calefan17, work up from 1 to 3 freeze dried capsules 3o4 times 3/4 times a day. of the freeze-dried capsules.
Maybe i missed it in the reading... you're not buying raw organic garlic, right? Just a product already in capsule form? Keep refrigerated?
No, I would never do that protocol if I had to peel all that garlic that is contained in one freeze dried capsule. Because of the odor on me and around me. Yes, in capsule form. No need for fridge. Just keep it in a cool corner out of bright light.
Do you have a link to this product so we can all read more info on it.
Alliin content in either of these brands is 20,000ppm. No binders or fillers. The alliin content is the important part. Not many garlic products that sit on store shelves for long have much of it left. The freeeze drying restores and maintains the alliin content.
Not certain about your "sore in some spots". I never had great discomfort with garlic. I did exceptionally well with it; it was one of my main "medicines" when I had serious Lyme. It also gathers the toxic metals, because it belongs in the sulfhydril group --- it is antiviral, antibacterial, antifungal, and grabs metals --
Just start slow and then increase slowly.
Take care.
Posted by missextreme (Member # 3610) on :
So I agree that capsules are great, but it is true that the best nutrition comes straight from the source. That's why I am getting better having lots of raw-freshly-pressed juices, etc.
If a person were to do the: "3x3 capsules (sometimes 4x3) a day" using just garlic (not capsules) how much garlic would that be?
After using high amounts of raw nutrition and having all my blood tests improve, I am a fan of less supplements.
What is right?
Posted by c3mom (Member # 16412) on :
Miss, this doesn't answer your question, but I did want to add that after an hour of taking the garlic, my Bart lines would surface.
It was amazing to see. I don't think I would have believed it(nor would've my husband)if we had not seen it for ourselves.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
I agree, missextreme. The real thing is usually the best. In my case, freeze dried garlic was my extended Lyme treatment after 3 months of IV Roc that still left me in a brainfog. I had at that time no strength to peel garlic and make juices, much less trying to secure totally organic dependable fresh garlic. I was also advised to take it after food, because the stomach acid has an effect on the garlic if taken while the acids are still strongly flowing during meal. I was flat most of the day and night. So if used as a complete therapy, with little else, even though the cost is higher, it was a godsent.
Garlic was my major medicine for healing. In other words, I tried to never miss a dose as I would have done if on abx. It was not considered a supplement.
Organic garlic costs a lot more and it has to be fresh to deliver the same punch. A couple of doctors made the effort to find the organic garlic -- it took them over a year to find the farmer and his field somewhere toward the boarder to Canada-- and then the manufacturer to produce these. The process is carefully monitored to keep the quality of the product and to retain the 20,000 ppm. Bioimmersion controls the manufacture all their products in this manner. The best they can find. Biopure also carries some of these.
Miss, I don't know how much of a bulb it would take for one capsule. I wish I could grow it myself, but so far do better with tomatoes, parsley, cilantro, and squash, and a few others. But then preserving it would be another matter.
I also agree "with less supplements". Allergies (silent) were a major problem with some of them. I hear that from Dr.K. often. Many blocked my ANS when tested. Glad you are improving - hopefully to totally well soon. Good luck.
Take care.
Posted by MorningSong (Member # 19989) on :
GiGi,
I tried both of the websites listed previously. One states only sold to medical professionals, the other seems temporarily down as I cannot get to it.
Which website do you order your garlic from? Currently eating 1 raw clove a day but believe more is needed. Also, does this garlic cross the blood brain barrier would you happen to know.
Much thanks.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Bought my freeze-dried garlic today : )
Gonna start with 1 per day Then 2 per day.... all the way up to 3 3 times /day
Posted by MorningSong (Member # 19989) on :
canefan17-
Where did you buy yours? I read previous posts unless I missed something.
Posted by gwb (Member # 7273) on :
MorningSong, I got my Biopure garlic from the company. Here's the website:
Thank you so much Gary. I will order some.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
I got mine from a wholefood store.
Ermas nutrition Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Can garlic alone kill parasites in our body?
Like a replacement for humaworm?
Posted by missextreme (Member # 3610) on :
I am definitely improving on the high juicing and raw nutrition protocol, as you I am sure understand quite well. Because I am getting better based on my own immune system's strong anti-lyme response (which my blood tests show), I believe garlic in my case could be used more as a helpful food addition rather than primary infection fighter.
So then, what do you consider fresh garlic? We get ours organic from a great health food store. It helps to live close to Colorado.
Does peeling it early wreck its nutrition? Could I juice it? How much do you recommend per day? 2 cloves? Or more?
Posted by Tincup (Member # 5829) on :
This is great! 44 posts just on garlic! And good info too!
Thanks!
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Garlic is the bomb!!!
Posted by IckyTicky (Member # 21466) on :
garlic doesn't burn when you take it with olive oil put on it. I chop up at least 1 clove a day in a small bowl and add a tsp of olive oil and mix it up.
I know garlic is awesome, and apparently so does my LLMD because he smells like garlic every time I see him lol
Posted by IckyTicky (Member # 21466) on :
also, for some reason some people will reek of garlic for days after eating a clove and some will brush their teeth and be find that evening lol
Me... I eat a clove and the hubby can smell it coming through my pores for a few days.
I sure do love garlic though!
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Oddly, it looks like that website is from WA and sells Dr. K's recommended products? Is it his online pharmacy?
Posted by lightparfait (Member # 22022) on :
I use organic garlic tincture. One to two droppers full in a little water.
Posted by missextreme (Member # 3610) on :
What do you consider fresh garlic? We get ours organic from a great health food store. It helps to live close to Colorado.
Does peeling it early wreck its nutrition? Could I juice it? How much do you recommend per day? 2 cloves? Or more?
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
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