LymeNet Flash: Bartonella Herx and Deseret Biologicals Homeopathic

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Posted by robin_wachs (Member # 3525) on :

Needed a break from antibiotics and Bartonella is top dog right now for the last year or so and so LLMD prescribed among other things, the Homeopathis Bart Rememdy. i just took vial #4 but this started the day before. Herxing with severe anxiety, taking Lorazepam, Muscle relaxer (Soma), valerian, magnesium, etc, all day long for the 3rd day and have incredible anxiety, bad chest pain, shortness of breath, tight chest, ears are ringing as worse than ever, feel really, dizzy and faint, Definite herx,

Saying these things for two reasons, to share experience and to see if anyone else taking this Homeopathis has herxed in this way.

Thanks, Robin

Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :

Please let us know if this works. What else are you taking?

Posted by Stacyb (Member # 13084) on :

Please keep us posted as there are a lot of us
in the same situation with Bart that is hard
to get rid off.

How long have you been of abx?
Just asking as could it be the symptoms
are from relapse and not a herx? I had
those same symptoms when I tried to go
off abx for Bart after 2-3 weeks.

What is this Homeopathis Bart remedy you are on?

Hope it gets better soon!

Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :

I took this as well. the herex was so bad i had to stop it.

Posted by aMomWithHope (Member # 19255) on :

I don't know anything about this other than I've heard it does work for some--not sure if it works long term, but at least short term, I've heard good reports.

Please keep us updated on your progress.

Posted by pamyla (Member # 8575) on :

I recently just started taking the deseret bartonella as well. I started on vial 10 and got down through vial 8 and have been having really awful symptoms. I suspected this is what was causing my issues and actually took a break from it today, so it's good timing to read your post. My symptoms have included fever/chills, which then led to bad insomnia, and mentally I've had a definite increase in feeling irritable, depressed, etc. I've also been feeling more dizziness and muscle pain.

In the past I've also taken the deseret mycoplasma and at the beginning also had a tough time, but it has improved a lot since then. (I'm on the 3rd box).

I'd also be interested in hearing more about others experiences on the deseret products.

Posted by robin_wachs (Member # 3525) on :

Pamyla,

You say you started with vial 10 and are working down through the numbered vials? Do i understand correctly? My directions are to start with vial #1 and work up through the numbers.
Robin

Posted by robin_wachs (Member # 3525) on :

In answer to CD57 and Stacyb, my full regimen is as follows.

Been off antibiotics for about 2 months. In my 11 years I have gone off antibiotics maybe 3 times. There is alot in this current alternative protocol, but it has kept me from crashing at least.

1) BLt tincture from Dr. T's office for Bartonella and Lyme.
2) HH-2 capsules from Dr. Z's protocol for Bartonella.
3) Arnica PSC Homeopathic tincture for Bartonella
4) Meriva-SR(turmeric) from Thorne Labs for intestinal health and misc killing of bugs
5) Candibactin-AR from Metagenics for intestinal health and misc killing of bugs
6) Argiletz green clay to disrupt intestinal biofilm
7) Peat baths ordered from Dr. T's office
8) Cholestyramine and Prime Chlorella to absorb toxins and gunk knocked loose from biofilm
9) Pectasol to absorb toxins
10) Homeopathic Bartonella Remedy from Deseret Biologicals
11) Caprylex from Douglas Labs to kill candida

These are the main factors in the protocol.
Robin

Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :

Robin - wow! Now I know who you see. [Smile]

Where is the Lyme tx in here -- or are you just tackling bart and candida?

How much HH2, BLT, and Argiletz are you taking? Can I get the Argiletz from Dr T's office?

Posted by luvs2ride (Member # 8090) on :

I too am on the Bartonella treatment from Deseret Biologics.

My doctor also started me at 10 and I could not get past 6, so we cut the doses into 1/2 and would do 10 thru 6 then start a new box at the same strength.

I herxed badly at first but now am on the 5-1 full dose for the first time. I began this treatment in Sept. 09.

I too think bartonella was causing major symptoms. Before we started the bart treatment, I did 7 mths of babesia treatment with Mepron/Zithromax. Two babs negative tests, we stopped the treatment and immediately I became sick with bartonella symptoms.

The homeopathy from Deseret has knocked bart right out (I can only gauge that by my symptoms as test results are negative)

I have also been on Deseret Mycoplasma series since spring 09. I have never herxed and after months of being >5 (that could be 10, 50, 100; 5 is as high as the lab chart goes) I finally dropped under 5. So, it seems to be working too.

For sure, all my rheumatoid symptoms are history and have been since we began the Mepron 3/09. I wake up every morning with no stiffness or swelling and praise God continuously. You just can't really appreciate good health until you have lost it.

Since mycoplasma is one of the main culprits in RA, I will be happy to kiss that baby goodbye too and sure hope that is in my future.

My suggestion is to cut your doses in half and stay in the 10-6 range until your herxes disappear.

Posted by robin_wachs (Member # 3525) on :

Dear CD57,

Bartonella is quite severe, or at least the most severe and so really focusing on killing Bart right now. There is a little Lyme tx in the BLt (the B is for Bart, the L is for Lyme). The focus is Bartonella and restoring as much intestinal function as possible while off antibiotics.

I am only taking 1 capsule HH-2 both am and pm but may be upping it soon.
I take 2 dropperfuls of BLt am and pm.
Argiletz clay (internal) is prescribed 1tbsp am and I am almost up to that dose, at about 2 tsp right now.

FYI, when I asked LLMD about attacking biofilms he said here is the protocol:
1tbsp Argiletz clay in am, 30 minutes later take HH or BLT (I take them both at the same time), then 30 minutes later take a toxin binder (that would be chlorella and/or cholestyramine.

Umm, let me get back to you on where I got the Argiletz, can't recall, will need to look it up. But the majority of my protocol was ordered from Dr. T's office.
Robin

Posted by SForsgren (Member # 7686) on :

Why are some doctors starting at 10 and working backwards? The way it is intended to be used as I understand is always 2 boxes. First 1-10 and then 10-1.

Robin - looks like a very smart protocol!

Posted by robin_wachs (Member # 3525) on :

SForsgren,

Thanks for noticing. This IS a smart protocol. As many of us know that have been taking antibiotics for years, sometimes our bodies need a break from them. But each of the times I have gone off of them I had crashed big time...but not THIS time! This protocol, is at the very least keeping me from crashing while giving my body a break,and I am having some herxing from it. The best natural protocol I have been on.

Yeah, and I don't quite get why some are taking the Bartonella Homeopathic from Deseret backwards so to speak, unless it's to lessen herx??
Robin

Posted by aMomWithHope (Member # 19255) on :

Are the Des Bio herbals with alcohol or homeopathic pellets?

How does one take them, i.e., certain # of drops or pellets per day/hour/week? How many times is the remedy supposed to be repeated or is it try-once and if it doesn't work, move on?

Also, how much does one complete treatment cost?

Can I order myself or do I need to have a medical practitioner order it for me?

Thanks!

Posted by f13girl (Member # 23844) on :

Does this company also have homeo lyme treatment and what does everyone think of it? could this be an alternative or something to try if one is chemically sensitive and seem to go into a tailspin on pharmecuticals and some herbal protocols?

Posted by robin_wachs (Member # 3525) on :

Hello all you posters. Great questions and discussion. First of all getting back to CD57, YES, the ARGILETZ CLAY is from Dr. T's office.

In reply to aMomWithHope, the Deseret Biologics Homeopathic Bartonella Remedy comes in a box of premeasured vials that are taken every 3rd day for a month. There are ten vials numbered 1-10, and you start with vial 1 and work through vial 10 in a month's time. I think? they are ethanol tinctures. The tinctures are various homeopathic strengths, with vial one being 200x I think? and vial 10 being 3x I think, but don't quote me, I am not getting up to look right now. One poster above noted that he thought the prescribed treatment was 2 boxes worth of treatment which has prompted me to check this with my LLMD who i thought prescribed me one box. I don't have the answer yet from my LLMD. You do not need a prescription to order this. You can probably get it different places, I was told to get it from Dr. T in California. Again, don't quote me, but I think one box was about $90. Though you can order it yourself I would really recommend that you have an LLMD on board as herxes are substantial.

In reply to f13girl, I don't know if Deseret Biologics has a Lyme Remedy. Sorry, maybe someone else knows.

Robin

Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :

I find it interesting the the green clay is a biofilm disrupter rather than a toxin binder?

I take red clay first thing in the AM and it helps with overnight toxicity.

Posted by robin_wachs (Member # 3525) on :

Hi CD57. Well...biofilm disruptor are my words, not my LLMD's words. I think of it as a biofilm disruptor. LLMD and I did not have time for full discussion of the exact mechanisms of action for the biofilm protocol I outlined in a previous post. Of course we would think that Clay would be a toxin binder and maybe that is how it works. Have appt in a few weeks and will ask exactly how it works on biofilm. It is apparent that the clay is supposed to do something to the biofilm so that the HH-2 and BLt can get to the bugs in the biofilm, that's all I can say for sure at this point.
Robin

Posted by aMomWithHope (Member # 19255) on :

Thank you Robin for all the great info and details.

I hope you have continued success with your protocol.

Please keep us updated.

Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :

Robin, how to you feel arnica is for bartonella? My daughter fought one of her bart infections with arnica and I found it worked pretty well!

Are you using arnica for ANOTHER infection or only bart? What dilution and potency are you using?

I love arnica!

Posted by robin_wachs (Member # 3525) on :

Hello Brussels,

I am using Arnica PSC (plant stem cells) for Bart infection as prescribed by my Lyme Doc. Sorry, not in the same place as the bottle right now so can't tell you the potency. It is too early to tell if it is working, although I am raging this morning with head pressure after raising my dose. I am only at 2 drops twice a day so far and final dose is 10 drops twice a day, but I am pretty sure I can feel it herxing today! allready. But will keep posting on this herbal/natural protocol for Bart or BLO as I determine more, but so far, lots of herxing and head pressure and rages and aches, but also some stuff is better like ability to take a walk or stand in a checkout line for 15 minutes without undue stress.

Robin

Posted by whatayear (Member # 15833) on :

I love deseret biologicals!!! I had pretty bad IST (innpropriate tachycardia and palps) it was one of my second sym of lyme first being twitching. I did DB for bart it was the best thing ive ever done during treatment after i finished the first box my IST has been gone ever since going on 1.5 years and palps have been gone since i finished one box. and my heart symptoms were debilitating and i had had them for over a year. Now the herx!!!! this was the worst herx i have ever experienced in my life!!!! within an hour of taking the 3rd or 4th vial i dont remember now, i started running a fever of 104 and twitching and jerking and anxiety and my vision actually crossed everything was moving the headache i had was nothing i have ever experienced. This lasted a good week but i kept taking it and got through it with clean food and water and good supportive supplements and im so glad i stuck with it. I have been for the most part in remission mainly to the DB bart series therapy but due to stress lately including my husband losing his job etc..im having a relapse mostly twitching and severe anxiety (which is bart for me) im going to redo the series therapy to get things under conrol. DB is a german form of homeopathy that involves imprints on the bacteria etc in different stregnths that makes the body think there is a huge load of the bacteria showing you body what to go after. There lymph drainage is amazing aswell. I have heard good things about the borellia series therapy but have never tried it. Anyone with bart as an issue this is worth trying but prepare for the herx of a life time but if you can get through it and let it run its corse you will come out in a better place. I highly reccommend!

Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :

Just bringing this up for updates about how this product is working if anyone has them.

Can this be used with young children? Are there instructions on dosage?

Can it be used at the same time as abx and/or herbs?

Thanks,

tickbattler

Posted by mcaringella (Member # 24848) on :

quote:
Originally posted by f13girl:
Does this company also have homeo lyme treatment and what does everyone think of it? could this be an alternative or something to try if one is chemically sensitive and seem to go into a tailspin on pharmecuticals and some herbal protocols?

F13girl: Yah, Deseret makes a Lyme treament. I finished the first box, with major herxing, but ultimately better, and then followed with their "follow-up" box for Lyme as well.

The two back to back helped alot then I took a month off and the Lyme came back stronger than ever.

I'm on my third round of the follow-up box now combining it with Samento (a herbal treatment). The combo seems to induce more herxing than the Lyme follow-up box alone.

I see my first LLMd on monday to see exactly where I'm at.

Posted by peacemama (Member # 17666) on :

Bringing this up again, to see if anyone has any more experiences with Deseret Biologicals remedies. I'm starting the myco series soon.

Posted by troutscout (Member # 3121) on :

I like this!

Here's a website for ordering it:

https://www.immunematrix.com/store/home.php?cat=252&sort=orderby&sort_direction=0&page=2

Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :

I haven't had any luck using herbal remedies for bartonella but if it is combined with abx it might help. I used up to 20 HH capsules a day and still relapsed. I also used samento, quina and cumanda without any improvement. I don't know how people can actually herx on this stuff. I feel they are probably relapsing. That is what was happening to me and I was told it was a herx so I just kept getting worse and worse, back to ground zero before I realized how sick I was.

Posted by troutscout (Member # 3121) on :

up

Posted by jarjar (Member # 8847) on :

I did one box 1-10 of the DesertB bart. and it stirred up my bart with streaks here and there plus some herxing but I'm still dealing with some bart symptoms.

Posted by whatayear (Member # 15833) on :

jarjar you need to do atleast 3 boxes 1-10 then 10-1 then 1-10 agian! and you have to use thier collidal silver with it!

Posted by jarjar (Member # 8847) on :

Thanks whatayear. I went to a website and ordered it back then and the only mention was the box of 1-10 for bart. Never heard anyone mentioning taking 3 boxes of it with collidal silver.

Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :

I just ordered it. Hope it actually does something as I never have much luck with the herbal remedies for bartonella, but I am going to take it with abx.

2HH-2 capsules a day is not going to do much against bartonella. It is like poking a hornets nest with a stick. You just stir it up and then it gets more aggressive.

It has always been my experience that quitting abx for bart results in a relapse. The herbs might delay the relapse from days to weeks (once months) but it is inevitable. Then the bart is more resistant and takes longer to get under control. After a few times doing this, there are fewer and fewer drug choices available to use.

Posted by whatayear (Member # 15833) on :

Nefferdun, deseret isnt herbal its Getrman homeopathic, it makes your body think this flooded with bart and your body goes specificly after Bart! DB Bart series got rid of my heart condition from bart and put me in remission for two years. Ive been rebitten by a horsefly a few months ago and have had 24hr a day pain in my upper stomach im starting to think ive been reinfected as all GI tests have ruled out a cause. Im going to try the borrelia series with their silver and see if it helps! but db is def worth a shot just make sure you do atleast 3 boxes if you have pretty bad bart symp.

Posted by kadee (Member # 21199) on :

quote:
deseret isnt herbal its Getrman homeopathic

I wish it was.
Unfortunately it seems, that in Germany and Europe NO homeopathic company makes Bartonella remedies. [Frown]

Posted by whatayear (Member # 15833) on :

Kadee i just meant the style of homeopathics they use is German but Its made in Utah! lol

Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :

Well, I am open minded enough to give anything a shot and I ordered one box to see what happens. I hope it works.

I dug out some trial drug for a cat I had that died with feline infectious peritonitis. The drug is an immune stimulant and I thought, why not try this? Well, it is designed for a ten pound cat but what the heck. The reason it did not save my poor little cat was because he had already been started on steriods. This stuff boosts their immune system to fight off a previously always fatal disease.
Too bad I can't get enough to treat a lion!

Posted by kadee (Member # 21199) on :

quote:
This stuff boosts their immune system

Hope, it helps.
Do you mind telling us, what's in it, neffer?

Posted by Haley (Member # 22008) on :

I don't think it is an herb. I know the borelia series is basically dead spirochetes. Your body (should) react as if it is a live spirochete.

The idea is to get your immune system to fight it.

I was a bit freaked out by the idea of putting dead spirochetes in my system but I may try it one day.

Posted by Michael_Venice (Member # 17254) on :

would like to bring this topic back...I've just started this series.

It's very rough. From the little I've been able to find, many people find it a tough treatment, but seems to help.

Looking for others' experiences.

Posted by Life+Lyme (Member # 33568) on :

I took this series when my liver enzymes kept spiking on IV antibiotics. It was indeed rough. I think I went through maybe 3 series? I did the upgrading series first, then the same one in the opposite order, and then I moved up to a higher (consistent)molarity.

The nice thing about the series is that if you are herxing terribly, you can just take it a little less frequent. I took it on a weekly basis, but if I was struggling, I could skip a week. I think it was a helpful treatment to fill in between antibiotics.

Good luck!

Posted by Michael_Venice (Member # 17254) on :

Thanks Life+Lyme...did it seem to help you? I've treated the hell out of lyme and babesia...and tests are coming up negative for those finally.

However, still very sick. Got a pos culture test from Galaxy on bartonella...hoping effective treatment might help me.

Appreciate your response.

Posted by Life+Lyme (Member # 33568) on :

I noticed a little improvement once I got off of them. I ended in a better place than when I started. Honestly, I did get more results out of IV Vanco than the homeopathic. On the other hand, I got more improvement on the homeopathic than oral antibiotics. I had the most intense herxes on them.

Have you tested for all coinfections/ parasites? Is Bart your biggest issue currently?

Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :

Michael treating bart will make you feel much better if you have it. What strain did you test positive for at Galaxy?

Posted by whatayear (Member # 15833) on :

This series therapy done the way they suggest with their silver and lymph drainage etc has to be the best thing I did....I was living on a heart monitor and had IST....this kit brought me through the darkness as chessy as it sounds they wanted to ablate my heart and this was about 5 years ago and knock on wood its never come back and I'm more greatful for this piticular then anything else I used during lyme disease second would have to be bacteria specific immune factor and more above that is diet and juicing!!!!

Posted by Michael_Venice (Member # 17254) on :

It's amazing how some things work so well for some (vanco, for example) and barely touch others, even with similar symptoms and history.

I probably should get more lymph drainage...having lots of swollen glands. Been doing lymphomyoset, but it's not really doing it.

I culture tested positive for heneselae. Babesia and lyme coming back neg now. Have a test out for Fry stuff.

thank you all for responding.

Posted by micul (Member # 6314) on :

I just took the 10 vials starting with #1 and finishing with #10. Felt a little tired on 3rd or 4th vial, but that was it. Took them every day instead of following the recommendation on box to have 2 days off in between vials. It takes forever their way.