I have been taking 15 mgs. of prednisone per day for the past 2 years. It has been very beneficial in reducing muscle and joint ache. I am now getting off it at a rate of 2 mgs.per day. Will this cause the herx effect to kick in ?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Are you being treated by a LLMD or a LL ND (naturopathic doctor)?
One who is ILADS-educated?
It is good to taper off slowly but you should be under the care of a LL doctor, if at all possible.
As for a herx, technically, steroid withdrawal does not cause a herx. Only a drug that kills the lyme spirochete can cause a herxheimer reaction as it's the die-off and the creation or more toxins that is the herx.
Steroids don't kill lyme at all, the opposite, actually.
Your body may react but I have no way to predict how.
If you can't yet get to a LLMD just yet, I'm thinking you should at least be on something like Olive Leaf Extract as a support measure until you can get to a LLMD.
I see that you just posted 3 days ago to find a doctor. If you have called a LL doctor, I would call them back and ask their advice with this question. HOW you do this could be critical - that is what supplement, etc. support you or if you need to wait for Rx coverage.
Are you taking some good nutritional supplements? These would be the basics now and may help in the transition:
Magnesium/calcium
Fish Oil (OmegaBrite is best. A dark glass jar better)
Curcumin - a good brand or just Turmeric but it's not as strong.
Be sure to avoid all alcohol and simple sugars and enjoy good whole nutritious food that your body will use to stay strong.
Good luck. -
Posted by dyna3495 (Member # 24126) on :
Have been seeing a Rhuematologist and now ID doc.Am waiting for results of wassermann blot test and urine culture. Have not contacted the LLMD yet but will if the ID doc trys to feed me a line of BS. Am taking calcium, magnesium, potasium, Vit C, E, B6 and B12 now down to 8mgs.pred. daily. Have purchased Lauricicin but have taken it yet, waiting to see the effects of getting off prednisone.
Posted by dyna3495 (Member # 24126) on :
have not taken Lauricidin yet .
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Glad to hear you are on a thoughtful path.
Sounds like you've read a bit about lyme.
I'm not familiar with the wasserman blot (do they test ALL the bands as Igenex does?) - the PCR (urine) can be helpful if done by the right lab with the correct procedures.
Some labs don't do the entire tests or in the best manner. I hope you get an accurate test. But, even then, if negative, you could still have lyme.
And, beside lyme, there are other tick borne infections and beyond that, even many chronic stealth infections that most LLMDs are aware of (unlike most other doctors).
Cpn, HHV-6, mycoplasma . . . all can bring the same symptoms as lyme. Not to scare you as the truth is/will be whatever it is . . . but so that you don't just stop the evaluation process at lyme.
This is not intended to depress or alarm you but so many of us did not have the details from the start and it would have been so much better to have been able to be informed.
If you've been having chronic symptoms you'd want a doctor who knows all about the full spectrum - as well about liver and adrenal dysfunction that often goes with lyme. I do hope you find someone with a great deal of experience, wisdom and enough curiosity to be a good detective.
CONTROVERSY CONTINUES TO FUEL THE "LYME WAR" - By Virginia Savely, RN, FNP-C May 18, 2007
====================
In addition to the usual coinfections from ticks (such as babesia, bartonella, ehrlichia, RMSF, etc.), there are some other chronic stealth infections that an excellent LLMD should know about:
I would encourage EVERY person who has received a lyme diagnosis to get the following tests.
- at link.
===================
This is why I thought Curcumin might be helpful as it can support the adrenals (which is necessary as you get off predinisone). Curcumin can also help decrease pain.
You might also consider other adrenal support like Cordyceps, Ashwagandha and Siberian Ginseng.
A recently published study investigated the effects of curcumin, a constituent of the botanical turmeric, on changes in cognition and memory caused by stress. . . .
In this new study, researchers investigated the effect of curcumin supplementation on stress-induced learning defects in mice. . . .
The results of the study showed that curcumin reversed memory deficits in a dose dependent manner, meaning increasing dosages of curcumin provided increasingly improved memory in the mice.
In addition, curcumin reversed the stress-induced increase in the levels of serum corticosterone, the primary hormone secreted during the stress response.
The researchers also found that the effectiveness of curcumin was similar to the effects of a tri-cyclic antidepressant.
VERY important to read - when you get your blot back. This is for WESTERN blot . . . not sure what a WASSERMAN blot is . . . but you might want to call Igenex ( www.igenex.com ) and ask about the difference.
I've been on Google for a bit and can't locate what I'm looking for about that.
--------------
Dr C's WESTERN Blot explanation is discussed here:
"With most infections, your immune system first forms IgM antibodies, then in about 2 to 4 weeks, you see IgG antibodies. In some infections, IgG antibodies may be detectable for years.
Because Borrelia burgdorferi is a chronic persistent infection that may last for decades, you would think patients with chronic symptoms would have positive IgG Western blots.
But actually, more IgM blots are positive in chronic borreliosis than IgG. Every time Borrelia burgdorferi reproduces itself, it may stimulate the immune system to form new IgM antibodies.
Some patients have both IgG and IgM blots positive. But if either the IgG or IgM blot is positive, overall it is a positive result.
Response to antibiotics is the same if either is positive, or both. Some antibodies against the borrelia are given more significance if they are IgG versus IgM, or vice versa.
Since this is a chronic persistent infection, this does not make a lot of sense to me. A newly formed Borrelia burgdorferi should have the same antigen parts as the previous bacteria that produced it.
But anyway, from my clinical experience, these borrelia associated bands usually predict a clinical change in symptoms with antibiotics, regardless of whether they are IgG or IgM."
After reading Bryan Rosner, i have been, with no doubt ifected with lyme. There is no room left for coincidence. His experience is virtually identical to my own. I am now on a mission to get the correct tests to bear this out.I have done the vitamin C and salt protocol with immediate results.However I have since learned that continuing the prednisone is counter productive.Bryan explains this very clearly in his published info. And thank you so much for your input . I will find the curcumin and try it tomorrow. I also take the next steps necessary to kill these little *******s. Rife machine if needed. Bryan also expresses good results with this device and I do take his word for it. Thanks again, Tom
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Tom,
So glad you have and have read that book. Even for those w/out a rife, it is filled with great information (and I found that to be his best work).
Best of luck to you. Take care and keep your eyes on the prize. -
Posted by dguy (Member # 8979) on :
Careful with fish oil as it's very high in vitamin D, which is a form of steroid. Switching from prednisone to fish oil would be like swapping one steroid for another.