Bryan Rosner says no to chlorella.... but yes to...
DMSA, DMPS, and ALA (alpha lipoic acid).
Says those 3 create a strong enough bond (when taken in small doses throughout the day) to remove mercury.
He says chlorella has the abolity to remove some... but mostly just stirs mercury up and moves it around the body.
Which can be dangerous.
Any thoughts?
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
GiGi is the resident pro. Ask her. Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Yeah, there are two camps on that issue. Never have figured out who to believe.
Posted by Hoosiers51 (Member # 15759) on :
I strongly disagree with some of the other things Brian Rosner has supposedly (I say supposedly since I've never read the book myself) claimed.
Like his views on antidepressants (which Lyme researchers have found can help the damaged Lyme brain actually work better, not just alleviate symptoms) and his view that, the way I heard it, was saying amoxicillin will only drive the Lyme deeper into the body.
So overall, I don't give too much credence to his theories. Sorry to put it so bluntly.
That said, I don't know about the chlorella issue. My LLMD does recommend chlorella though, and I'm sure he is aware of Rosner's book.
Posted by calmom (Member # 24054) on :
I read a book called Amalgam Illness by a PhD in BioChemistry, Andrew Hall Cutler, and that is exactly what he says. In fact other than ALA, DMPS and DMSA most everything else picks up the mercury, but just as easily drops it. He says you can get two for one damage that way.
He is very against chlorella, EDTA and a bunch of other stuff. Ilike that he explianed things from a chemical point of view. (I will try to explain and hope I say it correctly. These things are mon-thiol (they only connect with one bond), whereas DMPS, DMSA and ALA are di-thiol a much stronger bond.
He also explains that ALA is the most effective becasue it is the only one that can cross the blood brain barrier.
And finally he explains that it is crucial to chelate based on the half-life of the chelator in your blood stream. The idea being that you take a dose and before that is toallly gone you take another dose - this helps make sure that there is less redistribution.
You can google him or his book and there is a yahoo group called frequent-dose-chelation, that is very knowledgable if you want more info.
ALl the best Calmom
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
calmom,
yep. That's what Rosner talks about.
I get my fillings taken out in 2 weeks and the office i"m seeing (a very well respected bio-dentist...friend of Cowden).. uses chlorella.
Maybe there's more he uses... I'll definitely ask him about it.
Now I'm nervous lol
Boy health sure has a price don't it?
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
Ha! I have you beat, Hoos- I disagree with both Rosner AND cutler on this one.
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
Guys, neither Rosner nor Cutler are MD's, and neither of them see patients. they're writing stuff based on their (biased) readings on the internet. And making a lot of money on it.
MD's who do chelate often have different views on all these issues.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
maria,
So trust the bio-dentist who has performed the procedure numerous times? : )
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
that's sort of what I'm saying.
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
Chelation is one of the most annoying issues to research- there hasn't been all that much controlled research, symptoms mimic those of other diseases and conditions, which makes it hard to evaluate success and failure- and there seem to be two or more opposing camps who disagree vehemently on everything.
sort of like Lyme, except no clear science to really go by.
Posted by calmom (Member # 24054) on :
MariaA,
I agree. I come from the chelation side into the Lyme side and that was my first thought. Not again! A controversial, political issue, where many don't have any definitive test (without further risk if not done carefully), good doctors are hard to come by and often prosecuted, there is acute disease and then chronic and lots of arguments...well the list goes on.
Cutler is not an MD and cannot see patients as such, but he does consult with MD's. Mine read his book and agreed with the biochemistry of it all and was willing to help me chelate in that manner becasue he felt it the safest way to go.
I had my teeth started by a well known bio-dentsit. Even fot a referrral from Hal Huggins for him. THe chlorella made me ill. THe Dentsit and I disagreed and parted ways half waythrough my procedure. At that point I did not know about chlorella being a problem - I just knew I was feeling really bad and getting hemmmeroids which I had never had in my life. I was told that I would get worse before I get better. It just did not sit right.
I finished my teeth with and even more well known bio-dentist who totally agreed with the low dose method, but did not get into chelation - he left that for experts in that area, told me taking the amalgams safely out was one phase just and that keeps him very busy.
Two experts, two opinions and about $20,000 dollars later.
Personally, after a lot of research I had to do what set right in my mind. Perhaps some people tolerate chlorella - maybe they excrete mercury well enough that the cholrella is just what they need to finish getting it out. But it did make me worse. After reading and understanding, then having my MD confirm the logic of the bio-chemical part as explained by Cutler - I chose that.
Can someone get well on chlorella? possibly. But I do think there is an increased risk. And I think it is important to understand how it works so if you do feel bad you can stop - not just try to push through.
Cutler is not writting based on internet readings - he got ill and happened to be going through his PhD in Biochemistry at Princeton at the time. He comments how he was fortunate to have the knowledge to navigate through his illness. He has done everything he talks about -he even talks about what he thinks he did wrong. Finally I think it was a nephew who was diagnosed with autism and he used his knowledge to hlp with chelation in that area.
Finally, I do not believe Cutler is making tons of money. The only thing he sells are his books - and they are not written to be marketable (I really wish they were more user friendly). THe Amalgam Illness is about $35 directly from him - but almost $75 on Amazon. He is also active on the websites that use his chelation protocol and really tries to keep the information accurate - again for no pay. He does not sell supplements, nor endorse particular products -so I don't think getting rich is the big motivation on his list.
Lastly, I do not know Cutler, I just researched him a lot before I did his program. I really appreciated things explained in a scientific way - with a lot of room for individual protocols. Mostly I am just sharing what I know and experienced in hopes that people can make the best informed decision and help monitor their results.
Peace, Calmom
Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :
I'm with Maria and Hoosiers on this one....Rosner is not an MD, more an aggregator of info....my LLMDs have always recommended chlorella, but less as a chelator and more of a health thing.
For binding they like charcoal, chitosan, pectasol.
BTW I had my filling replaced by a biological dentist and he gave me....chlorella.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
CD57,
And I take it you had no problems?
Did you notice anything during heavy metal detox?
Like could you tell you were removing metals?
Posted by lightparfait (Member # 22022) on :
I go with Dr. K's protocol, and get ART tested to see what I need when...then you know its good for your body at the present...not what works for someone else with metal in different places than you have it residing and hiding...but what you need to get it out safely, if at all.
I do believe all mercury amalgams should go...but I'm talking about the mercury hiding in the brain, and elsewhere that escapes the amalgams. That most likely has been there for man years.
Sometimes its not good to remove metals for certain individuals...hiding safely could be the best option.
Provoking it to leave because you want to just clean things up..when you are feeling well ....may cause more damage ie...bipolar, other mental symptoms or aggrivated health issues...this is unknown. But this just happened to my close friend.
This needs to be explored individually to do this safely. None of us need more complications from heavy metals.
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
Dr K recommends chlorella in high doses and has one the best brands out there.
I personally don't think it is harmful and unless rosner or cutler (both of which are no different than you or i) can produce some literature suggesting otherwise then I don't see why they get involved in the first place.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
I got sick with chlorella at first, I tried it many many times, but always felt sick with it... That lasted months on.
Until my naturopath gave me about 100 pills AT ONCE to be ingested in front of her.
I told her, I'm dead AFRAID of these green pills, because chlorella made me so sick before. She re-tested me again, and said, take them. I did, but with GREAT FEAR.
I had the most amazing results with it. In about 30 minutes, my bloating disappeared, all GI issues I was having after amalgam removal, gone, my brain got clearer, I got sooo much calmer, relaxed, could drive back home for 3 hours relaxed...
This was my first love story with chlorella in the beginning of 2006. Since then, I never stopped taking chlorella. Even after lyme is not here with me anymore.
There are hundreds of publications of chlorella. It is not a strong binder, it is right, but it is also like food and it helps with neurotoxins and other toxins (not only mercury). When taken in high amounts, it can do miracle!
Of course, some people may be allergic to it (like with anything). Or have difficults to digest it. I thought I was both: allergic and couldn't digest it. Until I took 100 pills at once!
Another thing that make people very sick is ALA taken in wrong phases of detox. Just see older posters here, people can get real very bad neuro damage from it.
If I had to stop taking everything and leave ONLY one single supplement, that would be chlorella. I see it more like a super food than a supplement.
My naturopath was also trained with dr. K.
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
Thanks brussels for the post, ive been trying to get up the desire to take a 50 shot of them to see what happens, i think now i will. lol.
Best
Derek
Posted by lightparfait (Member # 22022) on :
Today I tested for 50 as well! I have never had a problem with chlorella. lp
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Where do you guys go to get these "test" done?
Who do you see? How do I find somebody in my hometown who does these tests?
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Chlorella does not clear toxic metals from intracellular spaces and is not a chelator, if there is such a thing at all. There is not a single agent that will remove the metals from the intracellular spaces and carry them all the way out of the body. It takes several agents under certain conditions and timing, and methods to accomplish this. This is where the majority of toxic metals are buried -- inside the cell.
When you use killing agents for bacterial infections, you will also release toxic metals in the die-off. This is often referred to as a herxheimer. You are also putting toxic metals into circulation that have to find another body compartment.
Allergies toward the major four toxic metals - mercury, lead, copper and nickle are a problem for most of the Lyme sufferers who are tested with Allergie Immun. If allergic, the immune system does not recognize these metals no matter where they are and does not work on your behalf. The majority who have taken the test found out that they were allergic to the metals.
These are not allergies at the biochemical level that would or would not produce allergens or antigens. They are errors in the DNA, at the informational level, often inherited or acquired at a later point. Most the people who have been found to have these toxic metal allergies are also allergic causing dysregulations to wheat, soy, often corn, most fungi and thousands of chemicals.
Combine these metal problem allergies with the leaky gut problem brought about by these food allergies, and you may see why many have a chronic problem that leads from abx to often worse or no satisfactory place at all and only somtimes temporary relief.
It is my experience that you can take chlorella and other binders until the cows come home and you will still suffer from the neurotoxic effects of heavy metals stuck in your system, unless you correct the dysregulation in your DNA. Allergie Immun is the only method I have found to do that easily and inexpensively.
Some people say they feel better after "chelation". That maybe true, but usually it is just a shifting of the problems into other body areas and more symptoms later.
Chlorella is a healthy complete food if it is a chlorella grown under tight supervision in covered tanks and clean air and water, and a great binder to catch the metals in the gut before they are redistributed throughout the system, when no binders and fibers are present to do that. (Some people don't digest it well.)
Neither DMSA, DMPS, or any others manage to do that. Other agents have to be present to complete the job. That is the hardest part. Timing is even harder. If you try to detox the brain before the gut is clean, you may end up with more toxin in the brain and central nervous system than before you started.
All things being equal, no dysregulation problems, microsilica is a more recent addition by Dr. K. to the chlorella for capturing the toxic metals stuck to the heavy innervation of the gut. Quote: "In terms of metal detoxification which is a key part of the treatment for HPU, MicroSilica is 100 times more effective than DMSA or DMPS. Detoxification of the gut sends the signal to other body compartments to release more metals. MicroSilica often helps with mental function, vision, and reduced ringing in the ears. MicroSilica should not be taken at the same time as zinc."
Take care.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
gigi,
Link to microsilica so we can review it?
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
I do not know of any other source that carries Microsilica at this time, but haven't looked lately. You may want to search for it.
Do not confuse Microsilica with Biosil, which is one agent used to help with the biofilm problem
Take care.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
GiGi,
Is this what biodentist are using?
I think my biodentist is going to put me on chlorella.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Ever heard of Chelex?
Posted by pryorka (Member # 13649) on :
Chelex is awesome. But aside from that chlorella is a chelator contrary to what some try to say, it's just not systemic. It remains in the digestive tract. People like to claim that because something doesn't have two thiol groups it's not a chelator, but all that means is it takes two of the entire compound to bind to the metal, granted it may not do that quite as well but it still does bind to it this is the same as for glutathione.
Chlorella can't "stir up" heavy metals anywhere other than your gut, and with the high concentrations of it that you'll achieve in your gut it won't let go of metals once it's bound to them.
Keep in mind Brian Rosner is a journalist, not a chemist, biologist, or biochemist.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
pryorka,
My naturopath wants me to go on Chelex after i get almagams taken out.
What exactly is chelex? i can't find it online?
How does chelex differ from ALA or chlorella?
Can it be taken with chlorella?
(I just noticed that I take 400mg of ALA already. It's in my Liver Defend Product)
[ 02-05-2010, 02:12 AM: Message edited by: canefan17 ]
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
I've wondered something for awhile.....
Are chlorella and microsilica ONLY good for binding metals in the gut, or do they bind to other non-metal toxins and help pull them out of the body?
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
Chlorella offers many benefits besides binding heavy metals. It offers detoxification of a wide variety of toxins and has equally wide nutritional value.
When I was at Dr. K's seminar in October, he said that microsilica is not absorbed throughout the body and goes to the gut. As I think Gigi stated above, detoxification of the gut signals for more metals to be released.
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
I have used it extensively, good product.
Posted by foggyfroggy (Member # 14707) on :
My doctor, who is an experienced LLMD who tests for and treats heavy metals says that the scientific evidence is that Chlorella takes up heavy metals in vitro but NOT in vivo - in other words, when it's alive and in a petrie dish it takes up heavy metals. When it's dead it does nothing but provide some nutrition to the person taking it. He is an awesome doctor and is very open minded so if he has researched actual scientific studies and come to that conclusion I would tend to believe him :-)
Posted by ping (Member # 6974) on :
And there you have it, canefan17! Absolutely back to square one!
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
lol @ ping (I tried sending you a PM, it wouldn't let me) (Have you blocked yourself? I dont blame ya)
Thanks djf,
That product looks awesome. i think I need to start trusting my naturopath. lol
That product has everything everybody recommended as being good.
Xymogen is very legit.
Posted by ping (Member # 6974) on :
The director of Doctor's Data, Dr. David Quig, performed that study. So, you could probably contact Doctor's Data for more info regarding that study.
Dr. Boyd Haley seems to think that mercury free chlorella is virtually worthless as a mercury chelator. Dr. Haley also says that some chlorella contains mercury and therefore some chlorella supplements could actually increase mercury levels within the body.
I tried to track down that study and all I could find was a sentence or two that paraphrased it. It said that the study was done at a naturopathic college and that they gave chlorella to patients with dental amalgams and that mercury wasn't excreted. The sample size was 15 people and the testing was done on days 3 and 8.
If that's all the study did, that doesn't mean that it proves that it doesn't work for chelating different forms of mercury in other parts of people's bodies.
A couple of points: -I think when Dr K was big on chlorella, he was suggesting using both cilantro and chlorella. Cilantro was 'the mobilizer' and chlorella was a binder of the mobilized mercury. He or at least some of his followers were pretty clear that chlorella doesn't mobilize mercury from body compartments by itself.
-my LLMD's office includes a naturopath who has been doing chelation of various patients for 15 years (or something like that- I don't see him myself). I assume from my LLMD's practices that the naturopath uses pharmaceutical chelation agents and not chlorella. I know that they monitor the process using Doctors Data. My LLMD says that the naturopath successfully chelates patients who have mercury amalgams and high mercury tests on the DD urine DMPS challenge test without having them remove the amalgams first. The test numbers go down over the period of time that the patients use the appropriate chelation agents (not chlorella).
I think what this says, if it is true, is that the mercury in amalgams isn't affected by chelation (there are a bunch of people who say this, and a bunch of other people who disagree).
-if what my doctor reports is true, then a study that ONLY gives patients chlorella (and then doesn't find mercury in their urine or whatever) only proves that those patients' mercury fillings aren't releasing mercury very fast. This wouldnt' be surprising to me.
-It is surprising to me that they didn't describe, say, a urine DMPS challenge test done for initial assessment of those study subjects mercury levels. Maybe those people didn't have a mercury problem. The naturopathic college and the researchers doing that study may have just assumed that amalgams=chelatable mercury, which is something that not everyone agrees on now.
Posted by ping (Member # 6974) on :
MariaA - Thank you. I've NEVER heard of chlorella as a chelator or mobilizer, only the chlorella and others you listed. You're right; there are so many questions. Was mercury a problem for these pts or not, etc., etc.
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
I do trust the Doctors Data folks (and I'm not wedded to the chlorella idea at all), but without seeing more than one sentence about the study, it's hard to say that it definitively proves anything.
Posted by hobokinite (Member # 6132) on :
What would this 50 or 100 mega dose do?
Posted by Truthfinder (Member # 8512) on :
Thanks, Nana. That's what I thought but we tend to focus on just the metals as toxins.
Chlorella - or any other binder - can't pull something from the body that is still bound up in cells or extracelluals spaces. So, I'm not sure how helpful that study is.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Trying to find one substance (chlorella or DMPS or whatever product) that will be THE solution for the whole of our heavy metal intoxication problem is a bit like trying to find one substance for killing lyme disease...
The problem is MUCH more complex. While I use chlorella for years, I used about 20 or more different substances only for the purpose of cleansing heavy metals out. Chlorella is just a small part of it, even though, in my opinion, very valuable.
Whatever a big study may say, I have taken chlorella after a herx for so many times for so many years that I am surely not leave it away even if God comes down to someone and say: 'hey, this doesn't work for herxes'.
If it doesn't work for heavy metals, it still works wonderful for many types of herxes. You just have to see years of posts here in lymenet from many different users. It maybe won't work for everyone, but there are too many of us using it with very positive results to put it down like the devil.
Chlorella won't solve the problem of metal intoxication of anyone, if taken alone. Nothing will (I mean, no single magical substance).
The picture is like lyme: the problem of metal intoxication is much more complex than finding a couple of substances that will free you of evil forever.
In my opinion, it is even MORE difficult to get rid of heavy metal excess than of borrelia and lyme disease. I'm still trying to solve the puzzle of heavy metal intoxication (and dr. K. too) and so is everyone that come up with some wonderful new treatment.
Lyme for me is 'solved' for the last 10 months (at least). Lyme is also solved for dr. K. but he's still excreting metals after the KPU after so many decades trying all possible different substances / methods, right?
I'm still feeling herx-like symptoms after ingesting zinc and manganes (the KPU protocol), still having my breathing rhythm affected, rapid pulsing, irritation, etc, very similar to a herx.
With the difference that I don't take any killer anymore for 10 months. I take metal mobilizers, that's all. If I don't take the KPU supplements, I don't 'herx' until next intake. And again, my symptoms fade about 30 minutes after ingesting of chlorella AND sometimes, other things.
I've been doing the KPU since March or April 2009. If again God publishes a paper saying, 'hey, chlorella doesn't help symptoms of metal intoxication', well, I don't mind.
I will continue taking my chlorella after ingesting zinc and manganes because I see my symptoms going down to zero about 30 minutes AFTER the ingestion of chlorella.
Maybe I shall now shift to microsilica for a change?
Of course we need more papers and research done and that they are valuable. But I won't trust a research that is done in who knows which conditions with who knows what type of people and who knows what type of chlorella MORE than my own first hand experience.
That would be like trusting my doctor and ignoring my own intuitions and symptoms!
The great controversy on what works or not for heavy metal detox is the proof that this is a complex issue and that NO ONE has the final answer. I didn't find my answer yet.
I just suspect that Gigi has a hint with that AI treatment, that only treating an allergy to a heavy metal could make our body excrete more heavy metals in a way no metal mobilizer could ever be able of.
None of the heavy metal detox protocols even mention a possible allergic reaction to heavy metals, right?
Anyway, these are just my thoughts, I don't want to attack anyone, I'm just writing my own experience and thoughts here...
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Chlorella works under certain circumstances. Micronanonized chlorella works even better, under certain circumstances.
But nothing works completely and lastingly if the DNA is running with errors in the electromagnetic system and is unable to regulate all functions = aka allergies at the energetic level.
Dysfunctions at the DNA level cause more dysfunctions, eventually causing negative biochemical consequences, and more of the same (chain reactions) after that until we are chronically ill. Or, if mild, I call it living in the grey zone. Not well and not sick.
If the immune system is deaf and blind and cannot act, the toxins stay where they are - in the body.
Yes, I have been told during my first year under treatment for Lyme in 1998 that if allergic to a toxic metal, the body will not release the metal. Also if allergic by whatever cause to a life-sustaining substance, a certain trace mineral for instance, the body will not absorb it readily and we become deficient. Neither condition promotes health.
We have known about allergies, but we are unable so far to fix them with school medicine, no matter how hard we tried. They always come back at some point later in life and stronger then.
Now - I am happy that I searched and found AI.
Take care.
Posted by mati (Member # 15233) on :
Here is what Cutler says
"Chlorella--Andy: "While there is little in press that shows chlorella to be harmful, there are multitudinous observations of real people which show that. All you have to do is ask around. Chlorella is simply another "sulfur food." It is very harmful to people who are high in sulfur."
"Dr. Klinghardt, is the one that popularized DMPS injections and DMSA every other day, the first and second most dangerous mercury treatment protocols. Now he is on to chlorella, which is also very dangerous. I know several people who took it per his protocol and suffered permanent neurological damage as a result."
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
The PA I see said the "hardcore" chelation treatment they use includes 600mg ALA daily, 1,200 - 1,500mg NAC daily, and every 3rd night use 10 drops Nutramedix Algas, 4 capsules of 100mg Chemet (400mg total - it's a prescription drug), and 7 tablets of Chlorella (They use King Chlorella)
Daily:
ALA 300mg x 2 NAC 500mg (or 600mg) x 2
Take Every 3rd Night
Nutramedix Algas 10 drops King Chlorella 7 tablets Chemet 400mg x 1 (4 tablets)
If someone doesn't have Chemet prescriptions, then Chelex by Zxymogen (4 capsules every 3rd night mixed with the Algas and Chlorella) is used.
This information is apparently standard practice at their office for patients with mild, moderate Chronic heavy metal poisoning.
Posted by lou (Member # 81) on :
Brian Rosner was a real estate agent, turned author. Just to set the record straight.
Considering the heavy metal problem in the general population as a result of environmental pollution, someone had better start taking it seriously, and not just the alt med docs.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Metallic blue,
That's what I'm doing with Chelex.
Using it twice/week.... then supplementing with what I'm low in (determined by heavy metal urine test). Like zinc, etc etc
Also.... my LLMd prescribed me DMSA to take the day before almagam removal and the day after.
Posted by thejoje (Member # 19976) on :
Gigi, Could a person attempt to do AI treatment on their own?
Is there a book about it, or better yet, a 2-pg pamphlet?
Posted by ping (Member # 6974) on :
thejoje - I will not presume to answer for GiGi, but you'd do well to read at least the last 3 pages of the thread called "Allergie-Immun Germany" here in Medical Questions. It will tell you what you need to know.
Posted by lymebytes (Member # 11830) on :
I am w/Hoosiers on this one.
I just don't pay much attention to Rosner because I have no idea where he gets his information. I've heard he was a real estate agent, turned Lyme Disease author.
The following list I compiled after I had a metal's test come back completely negative. The only thing I was doing at the time regularly the previous 2 years before the test was Methylcobalamin Injections, so I credit it for the good results of the test.
From a website re: Methyl B12: If methylcobalamin sounds familiar it's because it is the chemical name for Methyl-B12, aka MB12, MeB12, etc. The form of B12 being used to treat autism by many DAN! Practitioners. Methylcobalamin is an essential reagent for the synthesis of the very toxic form of mercury, methylmercury, and the extremely toxic/lethal form dimethylmercury.
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
quote:Originally posted by mati: Here is what Cutler says
"Chlorella--Andy: "While there is little in press that shows chlorella to be harmful, there are multitudinous observations of real people which show that. All you have to do is ask around. Chlorella is simply another "sulfur food." It is very harmful to people who are high in sulfur."
"Dr. Klinghardt, is the one that popularized DMPS injections and DMSA every other day, the first and second most dangerous mercury treatment protocols. Now he is on to chlorella, which is also very dangerous. I know several people who took it per his protocol and suffered permanent neurological damage as a result."
Well, there's a good quote is a good example of why I don't trust Cutler. He's: a)making an extreme claim about several relatively well-known, standard treatments (DMPS and DMSA are well studied by the conventional medical community as well as the alt-med folks like Klinghardt) and all he uses to back up his claim is 'it's obvious- just ask around'. No studies, no clinical observations, nothing other than hearsay. b)As Brussels says above, everything in mercury treatment is not standardizable. Some people respond differently to different treatments than others do. c)chelation is somewhat risky. I'm guessing that every way you could possibly do it is going to give you some small percentage of people who are injured by the process. Metals toxicity is thought to interact with a lot of other health conditions, such as immune issues, detoxification pathways, and infections, so it's no surprise that the outcome is not always a sure-fire thing. Many people still take the risk. I'm not surprised that a small percentage of Klinghardt's patients, who are usually extraordinarily ill people with very complex conditions, end up with problems that seem to stem from chelation.
While I'm not a major Klinghardt fan, I do think he spends a lot of time researching what he's doing, sees thousands of patients (unlike, oh, say, Cutler and Rosner) and bases his recommendations on observation of the outcomes.
Posted by pryorka (Member # 13649) on :
quote:Originally posted by MariaA:
quote:Originally posted by mati: Here is what Cutler says
"Chlorella--Andy: "While there is little in press that shows chlorella to be harmful, there are multitudinous observations of real people which show that. All you have to do is ask around. Chlorella is simply another "sulfur food." It is very harmful to people who are high in sulfur."
"Dr. Klinghardt, is the one that popularized DMPS injections and DMSA every other day, the first and second most dangerous mercury treatment protocols. Now he is on to chlorella, which is also very dangerous. I know several people who took it per his protocol and suffered permanent neurological damage as a result."
Well, there's a good quote is a good example of why I don't trust Cutler. He's: a)making an extreme claim about several relatively well-known, standard treatments (DMPS and DMSA are well studied by the conventional medical community as well as the alt-med folks like Klinghardt) and all he uses to back up his claim is 'it's obvious- just ask around'. No studies, no clinical observations, nothing other than hearsay. b)As Brussels says above, everything in mercury treatment is not standardizable. Some people respond differently to different treatments than others do. c)chelation is somewhat risky. I'm guessing that every way you could possibly do it is going to give you some small percentage of people who are injured by the process. Metals toxicity is thought to interact with a lot of other health conditions, such as immune issues, detoxification pathways, and infections, so it's no surprise that the outcome is not always a sure-fire thing. Many people still take the risk. I'm not surprised that a small percentage of Klinghardt's patients, who are usually extraordinarily ill people with very complex conditions, end up with problems that seem to stem from chelation.
While I'm not a major Klinghardt fan, I do think he spends a lot of time researching what he's doing, sees thousands of patients (unlike, oh, say, Cutler and Rosner) and bases his recommendations on observation of the outcomes.
There's a bit of detail to what Cutler is saying that you're missing. Any doctor doing chelation by using large one time doses of DMSA and DMPS is putting their patient at risk. Both are standard drugs and Cutler recommends them. However he recommends using them safely by frequent dosing. Taking a large dose at once and then nothing subsequently leads to a large amount of mercury being knocked loose and redistributed. Cutler is a PhD in chemical engineering so he has the background for this more so than most doctors, since most MD's take a couple chemistry courses in premed and absolutely none in medical school. Some even get away with taking no chemistry whatsoever. Cutler's book explains everything in more detail.
[ 02-22-2010, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: pryorka ]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Klinghardt never prescribes a small or large dose of DMPS or DMSA, whichever tests best, without following any of these mobilizing agents (that is all they are -- nothing else) without following them with agents in an effort to prevent redistribution.
Whoever is spreading these "facts" ought to make certain they spread all the facts, so that people get the complete protocol involving heavy metal detoxification. Never have I ever seen him or heard him recommend. over a period of 12 years, these Cutler items as a protocol without fallout coverage.
It is better to know nothing about this, than just fractions of it. You, whoever, is putting this stuff out on the web is doing no one a favor. People become more confused that ever. No doubt about it, it is a very difficile subject that can really damage people if done wrong or incomplete.
Posted by psano2 (Member # 11711) on :
I started using Metal Free recently. It was recommended to me by a naturopath. It contains:
per bottleIngredients
Microactivated algae, lactobacillus and bifidus extracts
Peptidylgluconase
Glycine
Ionic sea minerals
Hydrated colloidal silica
Glutathione
Vitamin C
Hyaluronic Acid
Fulvic, Ferulic and Lipoic Acids
Chlorella*
N-acetylcysteine (NAC)
It's pretty expensive, $110/bottle (240 sprays) and all I can tell you so far is that it makes me herx after taking it.
According to him, autism has a heavy metal component, and he's used it to treat autistic children successfully.
Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
I used Metal Free as well for about a year fairly soon after I had my amalgams out in 2000, but didn't do more than one follow-up test, so I have no idea how effective it was.
I hope you'll post how you get on with it,
Carry
Posted by psano2 (Member # 11711) on :
Carry, How was the result of the one follow up test that you did?
Posted by peacemama (Member # 17666) on :
Brussels. . inspired by your 100 chlorella pills at once, I took 15 this am and have felt better than I have in awhile. I walked the dog after teaching a great yoga class and doing some library work. Usually I can do one of those things, never all three.
Thanks for the inspiration. I might double it tomorrow and see what happens!
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Hey Hey!!! Lucky you, Peacemama, that you are not one of the people that are intolerant to chlorella for real!!
That's what I say when I took chlorella and binders to make my day look normal. Without these binders, I would go down with fatigue, brain fog and total lack of wish to do anything.
With right binders taken in different times of the day, people didn't know I was sick (except for the AMOUNT of pills/ herbs I ingested every hour /every 2 hours...).
Try taking it in different times of the day and see what happens.
I KNOW chlorella works for me (not to all cases, but in many many instances!), no matter what people say. Whatever people publish about chlorella (good or bad), I'm the one that adopted it as food for years now.
As for the subject of metal detox, there will always be controversy. People feel crap and get REAL damage while mobilizing metals in no matter what protocol they do.
Dr. K. uses energetic testing to help people out. There's no fixed protocol per dr. K.
He's got thousands of positive results, even though EVERYONE is learning, including him. He tests every single thing he promotes on himself and as far as I know, he makes his family take all the substances he believes (when they test for them).
We poisoned the planet with all these toxins, nature has not idea how to clean them out. Our bodies are part of nature, we get stuck. Some brains are trying to work it out.
I'm very thankful for whatever research come out of this subject.
Whatever you choose, I would NEVER take anything stronger than chlorella all by myself, as a newbie in metal detox. And certainly, not without energetic tests.
I do it now, but after many years doing chelation. But I still consult with a doctor from times to times (now it's on one year basis...).
I also think that what Gigi is saying is right, about the allergy to heavy metals. I'm on my own treatment for these allergies, and heavy metals keep pouring out (6 times dose of chlorella/ day, microsilica every 2 days, bear garlic, and some other energy treatments to help me have my day looking normal).
If anyone is interested, send me a PM. The treatment is total free of cost (do-it-by yourself), but you do on your own risk. As I say, metals keep pouring out, so you need to bind them with something.
As for the 100 chlorella pills, I took it for about 2-3 days, then went to normal lower doses. If my memory is good, I did that every 1-2 months to get a sort of flush of metals out. But not continuously. Now my average is about 6-8 pills a day (and so is my daughter's average), before our allergy treatment.
We don't have lyme anymore and are both doing that on a preventative basis. During lyme, our daily amount of chlorella was much higher. In times of despair, MSM in powder was even more powerful and fast, even though the taste is bad. ---
As for research on chlorella or any plant WHATSOEVER, no research can be complete and final.
There are several HUNDREDS to several THOUSANDS of different chemical components in a SINGLE plant.
A plant with 1,000 different components can literally combine these in MILLIONS of different ways.
Anyone who thinks s/he is smart enough to understand EACH single plant component AND the interaction between these components in 2, 3, 4, 5, or dozens or hundreds of its components is playing God with us.
Saying that chlorella is simply like sulphur is more than over-simplification.
People think they understand chemisty but I wonder who has ever looked into what are the other thousands of components a plant brings. Of course they ignore them all because they come in minimal amounts. They probably know nothing about homeopathy either, I mean, chemists.
In homeopathy, things that are present in ppm, ppb, parts-per-trilion or even less play a role in healing. In a plant, hundreds to thousands of such components are present in such minute amounts. It's easier to ignore them all and say they work for nothing.
What we need here is humility, nor more people proclaiming to have found THE secret of metal detox and discarding other views. As with lyme, the subject is much too complex for us to have a single answer valid for all the people.
Exactly as with lyme treatment.
[ 02-23-2010, 04:14 AM: Message edited by: Brussels ]
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
Question--- these chlorella pills--- what's the dose in each pill?
I have powder. How many milligrams per pill?
thanks merci
___Polly Polygonum ---or Nilufar Knotweed
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
Wait a minute...Brian might of been a realtor turned lyme book writer? But let's look at some facts....
He's a PERSON, might have been a realtor, that become ill with Lyme & co. He didn't lay down and die. He set out to find answers and research to find answers for himself, as well as thousands of others.
He wrote a book on lyme. He experienced, researched, worked his butt off to write a book about Lyme & Rife. All his & his experienced doc friends, came to certain conclusions about certain therapies. They are entitled to their opinion of their research.
I'm not saying they know better than anyone else including Dr K. But to just post he's just a REALTOR and JUST AN AUTHOR OF SOME LYME BOOKS...
is sad untrue posting on some of yours part.
There I feel better.
Pam
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
**
[ 02-14-2011, 05:01 AM: Message edited by: canefan17 ]
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
And there you have it, canefan17! Absolutely back to square one!
^^^ LOL Had to laugh at this again as I was reading through AGAIN
Posted by nell (Member # 18134) on :
I'm a HUGE Andy Cutler fan. I joined the yahoogroup he posts on, autism-mercury, when my son was diagnosed with Asperger's. I followed his chelation protocol even though it was a huge pain -- you have to dose every three hours including during the night. And my son recovered. All the way recovered, no autistic features or symptoms at all.
He makes some money on his books and doing some consulting, but the man spends quite a lot of time answering endless questions on yahoogroups for nothing. He details his chelation protocol for free, none of this needing to buy the book to get the information.
Over years with that group, I found him to be extremely forthcoming with any information he thought could help our kids. He's especially concerned about unsafe chelation protocols that stir up metals and let them settle in the brain.
You could go to other groups using different chelation protocols, and see a rather high percentage were reacting badly and doing worse. On Andy's protocol, a lot of kids recovered or improved dramatically. And the ones who didn't, did not get worse.
Yes, he has a big personality and can talk in exaggeration and extremes. He says in his experience, that's how he gets people to hear him.
As for anyone's qualifications to write or have opinions on health matters -- at this point, I would rather a person have a scientific degree in something other than medicine, like Andy does, because in my experience, the field of medicine has been so poisoned by politics, money, and reactionary policies that there are not many doctors who are able to think critically or even use the scientific method anymore.
My son would have been better off going to a realtor for his health care when he was a baby. A realtor couldn't have done a worse job than his pediatrician did, what with the vaccines and the endless antibiotics and fluoride supplements and telling me he was faking stomach aches for attention.
Posted by chiquita incognita (Member # 30381) on :
My acupuncturist was of the opinion that DMSA, while effective in chelating heavy metals from teh body, also exposes the body to them in a potentially risky way.
He said that the following product is much safer, it boosts liver glutathione levels while binding with the metals slowly and safely, thus protecting the body from re-exposure to metals during their removal:
It's by Metagenics and the product is called Metallo-Clear. You can buy it at discount at www.iherb.com or www.vitacost.com
CAUTION! I would never suggest anybody does a heavy metal cleanse who has:
Liver issues: See Natural Therapy for your Liver by Christopher Hobbs
There may be many other contra-indications, check with your doctor.
Posted by Blackstone (Member # 9453) on :
Gigi (or anyone else who feels they are informed on the topic)...
Allergie-Immune, if I'm looking at the correct website seems to offer what appears to be personalized homeopathy and speaks of "energetic issues" in your body's reaction to substances, excreting metals or whatnot.
Is there any way corroborated by scientifically tested methodology to test these hypotheses, that there are actually "energetic problems in the DNA" or whatnot? I see a 90 Euro diagnostic and 450 Euro treatment protocol and nothing to really prove they're doing anything but sending you some vitamin C in a vial. They even have an extensive legal disclaimer that shields them if their treatment isn't effective. I though Germany had better laws regarding the validity of "alternative" medicine and thus are held to the same standard as other practitioners.
For instance, have there been documented occasions where someone with the kind of allergic reaction that causes anaphalaxis gets treated with their protocol and then can eat shellfish or peanuts again since their "DNA's energy is fixed"? After all, if they can fix these insidious "hard to find" allergies then the big glaring ones should be easy, right?
If its all people with chronic illnesses that may or may not feel a little better after the the expensive treatment, it calls into question the validity of the therapy and relegates it to placebo effect. Heck, has anyone ever come back negative after the diagnostic?
I'm not saying this simply to cast doubt because if the supposition that people who can't excrete toxins and metals are simply because of a fixable dysfunction, that's great and deserves to be proven and applied frequently to those with such issues.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
Would be interesting to hear if anyone has used the AI for the anaphalxis type allergy. By the way, I have heard that NAET has been successful with that. I don't know anyone personally, this is just what the NAET practitioner I was using some time ago told me.
Like so many things, the proof is in the results. For me, it certainly has helped, that is clear. But I don't have any specific evidence to offer, like a broken DNA strand and a fixed one. Perhaps AI has something, who knows.
I don't believe much in "the big studies", with law of large numbers and all this, you can prove a variety of things. There are always too many variables that draw conclusions into doubt. The only real studies I believe in are case studies--this person had this situation, they did this, and then that happened.
If I can interject one more point of confusion regarding the chlorella, for your amusement canefan, if you will ... I know, as of about 5 years ago, most chlorella on the market was highly contaminated with mercury. I was a first-hand witness to many tests of a variety of food substances, regarding how much mercury was in them. I have seen that almost all foods have some mercury in them, but that some substances--such as chlorella--have extremely high levels.
What this tells me is that it confirms chlorella's ability to chelate heavy metals from its environment--at least where it grows. Again, this is not necessarily the same as doing it inside a live person, as foggyfroggy points out.
I wish I had access to that testing now. I've been taking modest amounts of the BioPure chlorella (roughly 5 tablets per day), and would love to see how that brand does. (While I use energy testing to decide dosage, I am still curious how much mercury I am consuming.) I did not test the BioPure brand back then, but several popular brands very commonly available in health food stores.
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