Hi all, I am mostly new here. However, I have been reading the rife threads and have talked to some of you. If this Post sounds like I am wining I apologize! And I am sorry it is so long to start out.
In the last 2 years, I have lost pretty much all I have worked for for the past 15 years. This seems to be a common theme with this disease. I had to move in with my mother-in-law in a different state and and left my home, business and friends far behind at age 52. My wife has been supportive but the financial burden and sickness has strained our relationship. She ran the office but, also has not worked in a year.
And now I feel I may be losing my hope to have a healthy life again.
I believe I can not use ABXs due to a very bad reaction to a family of drugs called Flouroqunilones(Cipro/Levaquin/Avelox etc.) these are very dangerous drugs and should be removed from the market. See www.fqresearch.org before using these drugs ...most MDs have no clue to their danger.
The reason I am posting is I am very confused on a few things. How to proceed with EMEM5 from Dan T. and I am also borrowing a home made Coil Machine that I just got. I am also trying the salt/C. There is so much info that I am suffering from analysis paralysis. And not sure how and when to rife. I am also not sure what all I am dealing with.
First question: Can I succefully Treat Lyme and Co-infxns only with rife and VitC/Salt?
I have a LLMD but only uses ABXs and some Vitamins. He will only see me every three months.
I tested positive for Erlichia and Lyme but may have the others. My symptoms are as follows.
Weight loss mostly muscle 25LBs Exercise intolerance can't build muscle and muscles get sore with activety. Hands forearms get stiff but don't swell. Very weak and crushing fatique comes and go intensity. Intense weeping depression off and on Very weak with tremors in AM better dinner to sleep time. Brain fog most the day better at night Intense anxiety when first awake in AM Neck pain with arm,chest,upper back pain weakness Anti-social, afraid to be alone or leave home Malaise, sick feeling everyday, hopelessness Occassional MM twitching Digestion and malabsorbtion problems Multiple food sensativeties per blood test Adrenal fatigue type symptoms Very homesick
My worst symptoms are the depression,weakness and malaise.
I was never sick before this started 22 months ago except for Neck problem and now that has intensified.
If the above sounds like co-infxns let me know my doctor hasn't been much help.
I have been using the EMEM for 3 months and I think I herx but hard to tell because I am sick every day. I ahven't noticed any improvement. Maybe I am doing it wrong. I just started the Salt/C today.
This is what I have been doing. EMEM every 10-14days Lyme: 432, 800, 4328, 612 2-3 min each Babs: 570, 20,27 2-3 min ea Bart: 1518, 832 2-3 min ea Erlichia: 375, 550, 942, 1064 2-3 min ea Finish with 10,000
Detox: IR Sauna every other day Coffee enema every other day Rebouding 2-5 minute per day Bentonite/Charcoal 4 at bed per ND Epsom Salt bath 1-2 per week
Supplements: Vit D3 5000iu MultiVit Magnesium Malate 1-2/day Fish oil Cap 1/day Probiotic 1/day AM Arteminisin per ND
Salt/C upto 3 gms/ day so far
I haven't seen any real progress since starting this 3 months ago and I am worried about not taking antibiotics. I will do what ever I need to get well accept the abxs just not sure about that decision. I have been very sick for 22 months ever since the original Abxs that I was given for Diverticulitis that was never verified.
If you have any suggestions or words of encouragement with any of the above let me know. I've talked to some of you but would take more suggestion and would love to here success stories. I am very down and need some ecouraging words that i am doing the right thing.
My head is not in a good place and I am not getting any help from the LLMD, he is just pushing to do ABXS.
My hope of sharing this info is to also help others that are beginning this journey.
I would like to keep posting to show my progress and the knowledge I've gained thru you all.
Blessings to you from, Dr.Dave DC 52 years young and hopeful to regain my Life back.
[ 02-26-2010, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: Dr.Dave ]
Posted by springshowers (Member # 19863) on :
Hello There
My first note would be to hang in there and that something will change. I had thought it never would and It can be so hard to deal with.
Trying to keep an open mind and finding what works for you is a great thing. So thats to be admired and you are doing great on that.
>
Now regarding Salt C. If your starting today and are at 3grams already please.. stop and reread and regroup and talk to me or Gael or read more threads on how to ramp up on this protocol. It is not clear always and some jump straight to the recommended dose without realizing that you should slowly get to that dose.
For the few that I heard had bad experiences that is why. THey did not understand how to dose the protocol.
Also.. Regarding Rife...
I am on the rife forum and have found that if you do not know how to start or what to do that starting out with the programs for organ support and cleansing can be the way to go. IT gets your feet wet and also can be great to because when you start killing you also have those supports already going.
THis is esp true if you already or in that position of feeling too sick to tell the difference. I have been there. I know that feeling. From my own experience usualy it is when there is too much build of of toxins either from over treating without enough detox and organ support or that you have a problem with detox and you have to do that much more than most others in relation to the amount of killing off of the bugs you do. Its all a balance and we each have to find that spot for ourselves.
For me when I felt I never cold make progress i had to do two things. One was to find the detoxing methods that worked for me and to stick with it. 2nd is I ended up having to be one of those who by passed the GI system to get any reaction to treatment and any treatments through my GI system caused not only herxing but side affects and increase in all symptoms that overrode any help I could have gotten from that drug. I still do not have a full explaination of why this was and or is.
I think that I may have been so overaloaded and or overburdened with nuerotoxins that I became hyper sensitive and also developed many allergies and so forth.
ANyway. I am not sure I helped at all but a couple things to consider in your journey.
Feel free to PM if you would like to ask anymore specific questions or just talk..
I know how it can be and feel in your position and I still do.. But this last year I finally broke through some of the very stuck feelings and condition I was in and even the ability to feel that you can feel changes in the body is a big deal after feeling so stuck..
I wish you well and I Hope that you make some movement soon.
Blessings
Posted by Haley (Member # 22008) on :
HI Dr. Dave,
I'm sorry to hear about what you are experiencing. It can take a long time before one starts to see improvement but there are others that heal more quickly.
I understand your concern about the "quins". Have you tried any other antibiotics? I know that abx are not always the answer. I personally think that they are a very important part of the puzzle. There are much more mild abx than the quins.
I also believe that the natural stuff is good.
IMO I would be dead by now if I had not started abx. They may fail me in the end but I can go to work and do things that I never thought I would be able to do.
Hang in there. People on lymenet will give you guidance.
Posted by annxyzz (Member # 20404) on :
I wish I had an answer, but I understand the feeling of hopelessness and desperation. Many of us have cried oceans and despaired again and again because it is hard to imagine a better future with an illnes that is so hard to treat . On top of that it is dam hard to have self esteem and feel good about yourself when you can not be productive like the rest of the world . It is hard not to feel like a loser at times. I know I sometimes do . What I can do is PRAY that God ( right now ) gives you a signal about which steps to take to improve, and that he will send the right people to encourage you and offer you good ideas . It seems like there is no hope, but there will be better days eventually , even if we do not get a full cure. Praying for you now, and glad you are sharing your concerns. Keep us posted , please .
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
You might be able to take other antibiotics.
The ciprofloxacin, Levaquine, those are some of the worst drugs. My LLMD didn't prescribe Levaquine. My local doc read in his medical journal that people who have taken Cipro have higher morbidity and mortality.
There are definitely safer drugs. Biaxin, Tetracycline, those are effective drugs that i started with. My LLMD, who was very safety conscious, first gave me a month of Biaxin plus penicillin, then the next month Tetracycline alone. I herxed plenty!!
People recommend lemon juice for detox. One fellow here said his doctor wanted him to take 4 lemons per day.
You could add Buhner herbals, or Zhang herbals. You could, along with all your other things, add Andrographis, Polygonum, and Cats Claw, and Allicin from Hepapro.
You could read the book "Healing Lyme" by Stephen HArrod Buhner. He explains how to buy the Polygonum, also called Japanese Knotweed or Hu Zhang. What you do is, buy SOURCE NATURALS brand RESVERATROL pills. If you read the label, you'll see they contain 1 gram of Polygonum cuspidatum, which is the target herb. No other brand of Resveratrol pills has that much Knotweed (Polygonum) in them.
Stephen Buhner says Polygonum (Japanese Knotweed) is one of the safest, easiest herbs to take, that you can take it every 10 minutes if necessary.
You might need a nutrition workup to make sure you're getting plenty of nutrients; you might be missing some important things. Maybe you need a whole set of trace minerals.
I've noticed people posting, it seems some who have excellent nutrition have fewer symptoms, and people with nutrietn deficiencies ahve more symptoms. I had to keep adding supplements, which made me feel better. Strangely, every day i felt better when i had my calcium and magnesium pills, 3x /day.
If i were you, i'd do what i did--- take SAFER antibiotics plus herbs and supplements. At least to see if you could tolerate them.
----Polly Polygonum -----or Nilufar Knotweed
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
I think Polly summed it up Dave. Break down what she said, and research each one, just one at a time:
There are definitely safer drugs. Biaxin, Tetracycline, Doxycycline, Minocycline, Zithromax. For a comprehensive list of drugs used to treat Lyme Disease read Dr. Burrasono's guidelines. You can view them here: http://ilads.org/lyme_disease/B_guidelines_12_17_08.pdf -
People recommend lemon juice for detox. One fellow here said his doctor wanted him to take 4 lemons per day. Other optios for detoxification include charcoal, Cholestapure, Chlorella, Baking Soda. Pekana Homeopatics, or Heel Homeopatics. -
Buhner herbals, -
Zhang herbals. -
Individual herbal considerations: "Andrographis, Polygonum, and Cats Claw, and Allicin from Hepapro (Dr. Zhang herb). Reservatrol from Source Naturals -
Read books on Lyme and Rife: "Healing Lyme" by Stephen HArrod Buhner, Lyme Disease and Rife Machines; When Antibiotics fail by Bryan Rosner. Insights Into Lyme Disease treatment, by Connie Strasheim. Purchase all of them if you wish. Bryan's book will give you all the tools for Rife. You can follow up in the main Rifer for Support thread that keeps showing up on the front page of this forums Medical Section. -
Nutritional support. You may need adrenal, thyroid, liver, kidney, or other support. You may have heavy metals. Basic nutritional support is where I would start. To keep it simple: Juicing vegetables and fruit, drink "pure" water, meaning at least filtered or better. Purchase trace minerals for the water, put the drops in. Trace Minerals are available from TraceMineralsResearch. These are crucial. Other dietary changes include avoiding foods that cause increased symptoms, such as heavy sauaces, or refined breads, or even grains like Wheat or Gluten containing things. Either way, start with the water and minerals, consider juicing, and try to balance the diet to keep things "moderation"
Final Words: Books are best to start. Changing your water quality, Trace Minerals, decreasing excessive supplements that aren't helping, consider Heavy Metals or glandular issues, Detox and try antibiotics again. The ones I mentioned will not cause the reaction you saw with the Quinolones. Keep it as simple as you can.
Posted by pamoisondelune (Member # 11846) on :
You need MIlk Thistle, too, that's VERY IMPORTANT to protect your liver! Also called Silymarin. I took lots, with every meal.
If you have the food allergies, i think you should be taking enzymes that break down the offending food particles in your blood. I think someone said that taking serrapeptase helps the leaky gut syndrome. You take it twice a day on an empty stomach.
Your symptoms--- it's hard to tell if they are herxing or disease symps. People do feel awful during the first treatments. It took me 3 years before i had enough energy to hold a job. For 3 years i was too fatigued to work, while on antibiotics. My LLMD didn't give me herbs or supplements.
People who do detox things like charcoal,enema etc, do need to take trace minerals to replenish what they are losing; that's what i've heard.
Keep us posted!
----Polly Polygonum ----or Nilufar Knotweed
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
I would drop the amount of the vitamin D supplement. I do not feel that it has been proven that extra D is beneficial for someone with Lyme. Or just take a minimal dose of 1000iu.
You may have to treat more frequently to get ahead of the disease. If you can handle once a week of frequency treatments, go for it.
Six months of hell is the rule for frequency treatments.
Ad 2016 Hz to your frequencies. It is the best Lyme frequency I know of. 789,000 Hz is about the same.
727 Hz and 732 Hz cover a huge amount of pathogens that any of us may have. I would use those two also. They are "catch all" frequencies. Anyone who has Lyme may have any number of other opportunistic infections.
Keep us informed as to your progress or lack of it. You can beat this, but it takes time. I have been at this for five years, and I am still improving the method, as I learn.
Dan
Posted by Dr.Dave (Member # 24210) on :
Thanks for all the input from you folks.
At this stage in the game I am not willing to do antibiotics because of the damage from the Quins ABX. The quins can make you hypersensative to most medications and taking one pill from another ABX could set you back months.
I took 1 doxy 100 mg 3 months ago and within 1 hour became very sick with neuro and muscular symptoms that made me sick for 3 days. I don't believe you could kill enough Lyme in an hour to herx that intensly. I took that as a bad raection and sign to avoid the abxs at this stage in the game.
I have been tested for defiencies and I am very low in magnesium, zinc, inosital, and carnitine. I was deficient in mag. even though i have been supplementing with Mag Malate for months.
I have been also using concentrace minerals for about a month.
Rifers, What i really need is a treatment plan to use the tools I allready have and to detox correctly.
Are the co-infxns in the blood or buried in the tissues like lyme?
Because our funds are limited it is hard to just start buying herbs and experimenting?
Example: Is there a specific herb or natural anti-microbial specific for Erlichia which I am positive for? same for Bart, Babs, Toxsmo, EBV
On rifing I know how to treat lyme, but I am confused on the co-infxns which frequencies, for how long and how often.
Do I start to treat them all at the same time or one at a time and at what intervol. Do they all herx bad like lyme? Does anyone know the answers to these questions?
How do I know if I am detoxing?....am I supposed to feel good after a herx wears off or can I feel bad all the time until I start to decrease the load? Do people feel bad for months when initiating rife?
Sorry about all the questions but I have been researching for months ...Now, I want to know what is specifically working for everyone that is making progress: which,when, and how often to rife and anything that helps with the co-infxns specifically if possible.
Does anyone with a coil machine that has a chart know how to calculate capacitor switches when you want to add a frequency that is not on the chart??
Blessings and Thank you for your help and prayers Dr.Dave
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Dave,
you said: " . . .I took 1 doxy 100 mg 3 months ago and within 1 hour became very sick with neuro and muscular symptoms that made me sick for 3 days. I don't believe you could kill enough Lyme in an hour to herx that intensly. . . ." end quote.
Actually, one science article I read proved that spirochetes can react to doxy within 20 minutes.
Wish I had saved that link. It really surprised me but I had similar quick reactions so it really was no surprise. I also did not know then about the protective measures needed along with doxy. -
Posted by Dr.Dave (Member # 24210) on :
Dan and Others
Nice to hear from you. Since we talked I have been confirmed lyme PCR band 31. My LLMD says that is conclusive.
So, the battle begins...I wasn't convinced that was it...but de-nial isn't a river in Egypt.
I now have a coil machine that i borrowed, but the owner doesn't know how to add frequencies that aren't on the original chart...any ideas on how to calculate the capacitors? I would like to use the coil and the EMEM and alot of the good freq's aren't on the coil chart.
There seems to be a handful of freq's for Lyme and all it friends. Do you do them all once per week or pickout a few....Can you do the co-infxns more often than lyme??? Eg. every other day? and how long would you recommend on each freq. this is where I am confused.
You gave two freq for pathogens "catch all" how long and how often same day as lyme every day.
Also, are there specific detox freq's besides 10K and how often, how long would you run these?
Thanks Dr.Dave
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
For coinfections, you can use the frequencies as often as you can tolerate. Babesia frequencies provoked a strong response in my wife. After a couple of treatments the reaction was much less.
I never identified a specific frequency, I used all of them.
To me Lyme is always the main problem. Once it is reduced, the immune system can take care of some of the other infections. But, you still may need to treat some of these other infections until you get to that point.
If I was treating myself in your place I would do the following.
Use 612 Hz and 2016 Hz as often as I was able to. Only the person involved can gauge how often this can be done.
I would also run a group of Babesia frequencies every other day or to tolerance, for a period of a month. Use a reasonable number of the frequencies, and in some sort of methodical order. Note any frequencies that provoke a reaction. A reaction almost always means it is hitting something. Since Green Tea is supposed to prevent its spread, I would drink it.
I would run 727 Hz and 732 Hz every day for two weeks, if it is tolerable. If not do it as often as possible until you can run it everyday.
Use the detox methods you already are using.
The results of treatments for other co-infections using frequencies are unknown to me. Whenever I have a question of effectiveness, I go to the DNA frequencies, as there is good evidence that they work more often than not.
You can try the CAFL frequencies, but I like better odds of success. I trust the DNA frequencies more than random CAFL frequencies, for pathogens that do not have a good established track record of being eliminated by the public frequencies.
Just my opinion.
Dan
Posted by D Bergy (Member # 9984) on :
I would work up to five minutes per frequency. Lyme is the one you have to be careful with. You should be able to run five minutes for most anything else.
I do not know how to calculate frequencies for a coil machine, but if you ask this person, they may be able to help.
Thanks for the info. You may be right on with the Doxy and other Abxs, but my friend told me who is an MD and was helping me thru this that with the reaction I had from Cipro/Flagyl/Avelox then Cipro again all combined in two weeks I'm luck to be alive.
It took me 9 months to get my intestines working enough that i am absorbing some nutrients and not reacting to everything I ingested including herbs and supplements.
I did glutothione IV 1-2x per week for 6 months to detox my liver after 2 weeks of ABXs and I'm still having unresolved digetion issue but much better.
These days I am very wary of the good ABxs do.
I know from many hours of anatomy and physiology that the gut is 80% of your immune system and your second brain. If abxs upset your normal flora the way they did me...I don't understand how that treats Lyme without knocking down your immune system, ....it has to be a very fine balance.
Sorry, I don't want to debate the efficacy of ABXs here. I know that many have been helped with them, but wonder for some, is that why they remain sick.
Is there one or two things you would recommend to protect the liver other than ALA, Nac, And Milk thistle?
Thanks for your input I appreciate you all to take the time to answer!!!!
Dr.Dave
Posted by springshowers (Member # 19863) on :
Dr. Dave If you sort through the Rife Support Thread there I listed the Rife Programs and numbers I used for Detox and support of LIver Kidneys and Lymph.
Those have helped add to my detox regemin and helped a ton.
Then.. you can read down that thread and many give their expeirences and how long they are treating and how they are responding. I encourage other to keep posting because there are people like Dr Dave who can get so much information and help "start" the rife process.
It is overwhelming and confusing in the beginning. And even with all the informaton in the end we still have to forumate what works for us.
I had to get the load down first using IV abx. And I could not tolerate any oral treatments and I believe it is because of exactly what your wrote about the Gut and Immune system etc. THere was no way to make any progress unless I by passed the digestive system as much as I could.
I am using rife as a detox tool for the most part and to try to zap what is left. There are things like the Fry Bug that are very hard to erradicate that I am trying to work on and towards.
IF you treat for protozoans and get a response and are moving forward then that area of covered along with babesia (which is a protozoan).
I had the same question you do about how many to hit at once or to rotate and how long etc.
I have ended up with a detox regemin with organ support (ever time) Exact numbers on the rife thread.
And then rotate. Two to three rife sessions a week. OF those sessions I include Lyme once. And the other two times I use for co infections of Protozoans and Mycoplasma and Viral and Fungal or Mold treatments.
In the beginning I used the treatment session for ONE bug and watched for responses. As time went on and I felt like I had a handle on my response I either increased the times and or also addded another co infection.
That is all something you have to feel out.
I will say that I do not do any more than treat 1- 3 things in one session. And always doing the cleanings and organ support after each session which takes a good 30 minutes and the bulk of each of my sessions.
If you ask me I would start out with just the organ supports and cleanings you react. DO that for a good few weeks and get a handle on it.
Then I would start treating just lyme and make sure you see how you react to that.. Always including the cleansing and organ support.
If you start out doing too many things you will not know what is doing what.
Then go from there and as you do that you can be researching and deciding on what else to add.
I have ended up treating Lyme every two weeks now and doing the other things in between.
But if I did not start out with ONE at a time I would not know how I was reacting.
This is just recommendations from my own expeience and I am not a professional nor someone who has gathered information from experts or anything like that. Just from my own experiences of just a few months of use now and how I started and it has worked out for me..
Tracking how you respond and what to use and experimenting is the only way to figure all this out.
I was given the first programs by some experts of the cleansing and organ supports and I was pretty fearful of the rife so I started just using those and noticed immediate improvement and detox support and I used those for a while to get comforatble with my machine as well and studied during those hours of treatment so i could make the next steps.
I hope that all our inputs help you in some way and you can gather up the information and come to some sort of plan.
The books too are highly recommended and I find the Rife Handbook very very useful too..
I was just reading more the other night and she is saying exactly what I have been typing and experiencing and that is that you have to get those detox pathways working first before you start tackling the killing of the bugs. So I am glad I strarted there and she recommends it as well. Using Rife and all other detox mehtods that work for you. I use Dry brushing and salt baths and lemon water.. I do one to two lemons a day fresh..and about a gallon of water a day.
Good Luck.
Blessings.
Posted by Dr.Dave (Member # 24210) on :
I asked Dan about adding Freq's for the Coil machine and he gave me this site which has a calculator for freq and capacitor switches and it worked great once I figured out how to use it.
Go to free stuff and then at bottom of page pick online calc and plug in the info and you can get the switches to turn on to any freq you want, .. to the limit of the coil machine.
If anyone needs this and is having trouble I will help you, ... just send private message.
Thanks Dan it worked great ...saved me a lot of time and energy.
Dr.Dave
Posted by steve1906 (Member # 16206) on :
Dr. Dave,
Your worst symptoms are the same as myself two years ago - (depression,weakness and malaise).
Personally I really think you need to concentrate on the depression first. You will never have the energy or will power To fight Lyme until you get somewhat better with the depression.
I'm still living at home but my relationship with my family is completely gone do to Lyme.
I wish you the best and I hope your able to move back in with your family soon.
Try your best to get back to work even if Its only part time.
Take care, Roy
Posted by Dancer (Member # 11039) on :
So much helpful info given already - I will just add that Epsom salt baths give me alot of immediate relief from the body pain. Keep the faith!
Posted by Dr.Dave (Member # 24210) on :
Spring, Dan, Keebler,
Hey guys I started another Post/Thread "Rifer's Favorite Freq's ....." asking folks to share their freq's and how to use them.
You guys have contributed allready, but if you feel like reading it and summerizing your own stuff to add that would be great. My writing/communcation skills at this stage of ds are not so good.I apologize if this is hard to understand.
I plan to put together the most beneficial freq's and how to use them into a simple format so that us brainfogged newbies have a quick simple reference and maybe after you all bless it ...it can be put somewhere on the sight where we can refer people to, saving us all time and energy. I have been getting some good info from other forums also that I would like to share.
I know it has been hard for me when I am presented with so much information and websites that I get analysis paralysis and I know most of it is because of the disease. So hopefully this will help others also.
Thank you all for your help Dr.Dave
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
I already did that recently Dr. Dave. All people have to do is search Rife as "Subject" and METALLlC BLUE as the name (Remember the double LL in Metallic is followed but a lower case "L" instead of and "I".
Here is the actual link for anyone interested. It doesn't matter which posts you choose to post to, but this is just another one that may be helpful.