but i'm wondering. has anybody ever gotten up to the full 4 pills 4 times a day?
i think somebody said they got to two pills each but couldn't tolerate more.
was it a herx? gastro? i'd like to know why people stop buhner.
so far i think the ringing in my ears has lessened the facial jerking.
but when i took flagyl with buhner, it was bad.....
[ 02-27-2010, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: randibear ]
Posted by seibertneurolyme (Member # 6416) on :
Hubby takes 12 sarsaparilla, 6 resveratrol (Japanese knotweed source), 12 andrographis, redroot tincture, was on 12 astragalus til recently, and in the past 12 cat's claw. Also on 6 Spirokete (Kroeger Herbs) and eluthero tincture (3 droppers 3 times per day) and stephania tincture (5 droppers 3 times per day). I am probably leaving something out.
This is in addition to his antibiotics -- Minocycline, Rifampin and low dose Zithromax and low dose Clindamycin.
Also on numerous supplements.
But he has been on various doses of the Buhner herbs and other herbs for the better part of 2 years. I try really hard not to add more than 1 or 2 new things at once and only change doses on one thing at a time.
In my opinion, there is very little actual interaction between the herbs and most antibiotics. They work in different ways, but if you take both herbs and antibiotics you can herx from either one or both.
Just go slow -- it took many months to get to full doses on the andrographis especially.
Bea Seibert
Posted by randibear (Member # 11290) on :
oh thanks.\ i think tomorrow i will start with two each of the cat's claw, andro, and reseveratrol in the morning, and one each at lunch.
then the following week 2 each at breakfast and lunch and then the following week 2 each st 3 times a day.
it's sort of a slow way to do it, but i'm so dang sensitive, i figure i better go slowl
nice to hear that somebody is taking more than i am.
Posted by minerva (Member # 20410) on :
i just started doing them. i took one at a time each day then added the next herb. i went 8 days on one of each 3x a day now i am taking two 3x day. after ive gone 10 days i will add one more to three 2x day....not sure about the 4.
i am starting to feel more tired and my neck pain is a little worse but can't be sure its the herbs.
i now have POTs so i am a little woried about the andrographs since they can lower BP so i am going a lot slower on it.
i am taking supplements with it and no antibiotics. i am a bit concerned with taking the max dose. the cost and the insane amount of pill popping is not fun either.
i would love to know how you end up doing on it. please keep us posted. good luck with it!
Posted by gwb (Member # 7273) on :
As many of you know, I went on Dr. J's protocol at the Hansa Center in KS and have made amazing progress in the seven weeks I've been on it.
I'm not trying to discourage anyone from doing the herbal protocol, that's what I planned to do last January until I discovered this protocol.
I'm glad I found out about this protocol and believe it literally saved my life.
Do your herbs and and give it your best effort, but if you feel it isn't working out for you, or you want to try something other than antibiotics and herbs, check this out.
Feel free to post any questions you have about this protocol on my thread (I don't want to hijack this thread) or pm me.
Gary
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
there are a bunch of threads about Buhner stuff, linked in my signature... Good luck!
Posted by Cass A (Member # 11134) on :
Dear Friends,
I did the Buhner Protocol for Babesia, then tried the herbs for Lyme. Unfortunately, these led to seizures, even on a low dose. Whether it was Lyme or the herbs causing a herx, I don't know. I was unconscious twice and ended up in the ER both times.
I went off the herbs and then did Mepron/Zith for Babesia for about a year.
Just watch the herbs, in my opinion.
Best,
Cass A
Posted by Mrs. Barthead (Member # 23995) on :
I am doing some of the Buhner herbs in combo with Cowden herbs. I take Cumanda and Enula. Burbur for detox, when needed.
I have Bart, took Levaquin for a while-- it helped-- but still had Bart return-- tried Rifampin and had a horrible herx that I almost went to the hospital for.
So, I heard about Houttuynia from LLMD and started taking that slowly. Immediately had a herx on that. Then, according to Buhner, Resverotrol works on Bart also, so I slowly added that in one pill 3X a day. I have been doing that for a month.
I added in Samento ( Cowden's infused tinture) and really have to go slow on that, because 1 drop alone can send me into a horrid herx. I have yet to try the andrographis yet.
I will be increasing my doses of resverotrol- (Knotweed) to 2 - 3X daily. It depends on your weight and how much you can tolerate. 1stChineshherbs said based on my weight, I probably will not need to go higher than 3 pills at 3x daily. Total of 9. I am not sure that I even will need to get to that point, but gradually, I may, since I am seeing improvement. I may pound it for a while, then work back down, as Buhner suggests this in his book.
So far, this combo, along with Omnicef with Probeniced and grapefruit extract has been the best protocol for me. It's like you are hitting all the forms of Lyme and Bart at the same time without all the meds. My LLMD even thinks my protocol is a good one and is trying this on other patients.
Posted by f13girl (Member # 23844) on :
I could not do it- have neurological explosion from hell on it and had to stop. Took me 5 months to recover and did not recover back to baseline.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Cass A's comments do not pass me by. I respect her very much and take her experience as an important point. She and I had the opposite effects, though.
It's striking - the different reactions. It really goes to show that we are each different and while herbs may be said to be for this or for that, the naturopathic doctors have know for generations that each person needs individualized treatment.
Also - it may not so much be the Buhner supplements as the flagyl that is causing the effects you are getting. And, andrographis does cause some stomach upset and some people can't get up to the full amount.
I was able to but it was a gradual thing.
I've not been able to afford more than just the andrographis and cat's claw but I must say this has saved my life. (I have no access to a LL doctor but I have a good ND to guide some of my decisions and answer some questions.)
Andrographis has been the very best help I've ever found to lessen sound-triggered seizures. Cat's claw, too, is very settling for my irritated nerve endings.
I still have a long way to go, of course, and mostly what I can afford is just the andrographis but it has worked exceedingly well for me in many ways. I would be in much worse shape without it. I did get up to the full dose of that.
The past 6 weeks I've been on nothing at all (orders from my bank account). Tomorrow, I get to reorder and am so ready to get back on this. It is a miracle for good sleep, among other things.
Allicin, too, helped but that protocol is beyond my means and also raised tinnitus while andrographis lowered it.
While it works for me, true, it's still no walk in the park. And that is understandable. Still, if something just is not right, don't try to push it. There are many ways to accomplish the same thing. -