This is topic If not milk thistle on Mepron, then what? in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.


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Posted by B4LYME (Member # 23222) on :
 
I do take milk thistle at night away from my meds and N-acetyl cysteine during the day. Should I switch to dandelion or something else?

Someone suggested burdock, but I have to be careful of that because I have a ragweed allergy.

I'm on mepron, doxy, biaxin, acyclovir, nystatin and a small amount of klonopin at night.

I know I need to support my liver, but what is the best way to do that while on mepron?

Thank you for any input you have.

B4
 
Posted by massman (Member # 18116) on :
 
I know a LL NP (Nurse Practitioner) in PA that should be able to help you.

Interested ?
_______________________________________________
Disclaimer: I get nothing nada from the 3 companies whose supplements I recommend. After my specific recommendations are listed some bashers climb out of their closets to howl + bash.
I sometimes wonder who they might get paid by.

www.systemicformulas.com
www.inno-vita.com
www.standardprocess.com

Thru health pros only
 
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
 
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3/4 of the way down page one, there are lots of LIVER LINKS:


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=065801

Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links - including HYPERACUSIS
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Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
 
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This is included in Burrascano's Guidelines, but you may want to be able to refer to it separately, too:

http://www.lymepa.org/Nutritional_Supplements.pdf

Nutritional Supplements in Disseminated Lyme Disease

J.J. Burrascano, Jr., MD (2008) - Four pages

=========================

http://www.klinghardtneurobiology.com/LymeProtocolOct09.pdf

A Treatment Guide: Lyme and other Chronic Infections

by Dietrich Klinghardt, MD, PhD

October 2009 - 87 pages

======================

Great information about treatments options and support measures:

http://tinyurl.com/6lq3pb (through Amazon)

THE LYME DISEASE SOLUTION (2008)

- by Kenneth B. Singleton , MD; James A. Duke. Ph.D. (Foreword)

You can read more about it here and see customer reviews.

Web site: www.lymedoctor.com

========================

http://tinyurl.com/5vnsjg

Book: Healing Lyme: Natural Healing And Prevention of Lyme Borreliosis And Its Coinfections - by Stephen Harrod Buhner

website: http://planetthrive.com/2009/08/buhner-healing-lyme-program/

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http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/86857

Topic: Buhner Healing Lyme Q & A links have changed

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http://tinyurl.com/5drx94

Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine - by Dr. QingCai Zhang, MD & Yale Zhang

web site: try www.sinomedresearch.org and use "clinic" and then "clinic" for the passwords or call Hepapro through www.hepapro.com
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Posted by B4LYME (Member # 23222) on :
 
Massman - I appreciate the offer. I do have a good integrative md who is lyme literate near me. I just can't swing that and the LLMD financially right now. Do any of those products have milk thistle in them?

Keebler - Thank you for all the info. I've read Burrascano's guidelines and most of Dr. S's book. Many of the articles were quite helpful in seeing other alternatives.

I am on 600mg of the NAC once a day now and think I will switch to the dandelion for now over the milk thistle after reading some of the articles. Do you have any info on how much NAC to take and when best to take it?

I was wondering too if New Chapter's Xyflamend would be beneficial too since it has many of the herbs listed in the article.

Thank you again for your replies.

B4
 
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
 
People do take milk thistle when on Mepron, but they take it away from the Mepron.

Most herbal liver support therapies interfere with Mepron, so don't take them at the same time.

I looked up dandelion for this, and didn't look for very long- but I found this (press control-F when you get the page, and then type in p450 into the small "find" window when it comes up on your screen):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2322858/

It says that some preliminary evidence shows that dandelion inhibits cytochrome p450 enzymes and induces others. I think, (and I am NOT an expert on this at all!) that this means it won't cause extra clearance of Mepron, but it may interfere with levels of it and other drugs that are removed from the body by the cytochrome p450 system. 'inhibits' p450 means that it could raise levels of drugs like Mepron and many other drugs, by slowing down their excretion by the body. This could be good in some cases and dangerous in others.

"preliminary" evidence can mean anything, too- without reading the paper that they based that on, who knows how good the info is?

Dandelion is definitely a liver protective herb, it'll also stimulate gall bladder to produce bile, and that may or may not be helpful (if you no longer have a gall bladder I think it's still OK to take). It is also full of potassium, and it is a diuretic at the same time, so it might a) make you pee- the French country name for it the plant is "pee-the-bed"- and b)it's better than other diuretics because it doesn't deplete potassium!

Dandelion root and dandelion leaf are used slightly differently from each other (ie for different conditions) by herbalists and i'm not sure which does what. I think either one would be helpful as a tea, just don't take it at the same time as Mepron, and please ask your doctor about other drugs you're on that utilize the cytochrome p450 pathway- it may be dangerous to have the levels of the drugs altered by the dandelion.
 
Posted by MariaA (Member # 9128) on :
 
Crud! That article also says that in a rat study, dandelion significantly lowered the availability of Cipro. They suggest it might be a bad idea to take dandelion with quinolones (ie Levaquin or Cipro)
 
Posted by massman (Member # 18116) on :
 
Livergy from www.innp-vita.com has milk thistle in it. Systemic Formulas do not. Couldn't access the Standard Process info due to some glitch.

If your doc contacts Inno-Vita he may want to chat a bit with Dr. Kim, the founder, to understand what thproducts are + how they work.
 
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
 
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B4Lyme,

Some LLMDs still have their patients take milk thistle, just far away from the Rx.

It's not so much about liver support formulas having milk thistle in them. Many other herbs and nutritional supplements used in liver support do the exact same thing as milk thistle.

It's the action of decreasing the therapeutic dose of circulating medicine that is of concern. Milk Thistle helps the liver work better and that means that not only are toxins taken out better but then some good stuff can also be moved through faster.

The LIVER LINKS in the Tinnitus thread explain the various actions/properties of various other liver support supplements but the bottom line is a balance. Timing can be the key. Somehow, though, liver support - and protection - is absolutely vital, especially with zith, mino and biaxin (so as to help protect ears, too).

The chapter on how the liver works will explain a lot. So, too, is the importance of avoiding all other things that can stress the liver, such as tylenol or some harsh sleep meds.

Since many lyme patients also have concerns about porphyria, BETA CAROTENE is one of the best liver protectors for the Cytochrome P-450 liver detox pathway. BETA CAROTENE can help to keep the toxic level of porphyrins down and that will help prevent cellular damage.

===========

3/4 of the way down page one, there are lots of LIVER LINKS:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=065801

Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links - including HYPERACUSIS

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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/91842?

Porphyria thread
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Posted by Amanda (Member # 14107) on :
 
One of the simpliest things you can do is add lemon to your water. I saw a NP some time ago, and this is what they recommended, given I was on mepron.

She also told me to avoid other things that could stress my liver. So no alcohol (like i was drinking that anyway!), and avoid at all cost high fructose corn syrup. Apparently, HFC syrup turns into fat that clings to your liver.

She also told me that certain fats are esier on your liver than others (since you have to take so much fat with the mepron). Olive oil, fish oil, coconut oil, primrose oil, flax seeds (most seeds actually) most nuts (except peanuts) are all good choices.

good luck
 


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