Well, I can't take it any more. Since I resolved my frozen shoulder on my own....I started working out again and am going to make a run at a Master's Class bodybuilding competition
I am not going to let these infections get in my way. Luckily pain is not much of an issue in the gym due to endorphins and what not...
Anyone else working out hard?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I worked out as hard as I could. I am well now and think working out was a big part of it.
The biggest thing to watch is adrenal fatigue. Be sure to put enough rest time in.
I am a pilates instructor and it's all strength training (don't underestimate how much work it is!). Pilates doesn't require the rest/days off that weighlifting does because you're not tearing and building muscle, the idea is longer, leaner muscle.
Anyway, if I work out five days a week for too many weeks in a row, I start becoming fatigued. I've been sticking to four times per week and do fine with that. I'm still putting in the same hours, it seems to be the additional day off that was important.
My point is, listen to your body.
Posted by Beachinit (Member # 21040) on :
I am working out with dumbells and calisthenics and started making faster progress after adding whey protein and daily DHEA 12.5 mg in addition to meds and supps. I work 3 days a week at a demanding job, then work out alternate days. Not going for competition, just trying to wring something good out of an otherwise damnable situation. I have not made progress like this since I was teenager (now mid fifties). The whey protein etc is also helping with muscle pains etc and increase energy. Dr. B said one of his patients overcame lyme disease by working out and bodybuilding and that he was amazed that it could be done. That should give us encouragement.
Beachinit.
Posted by Kastroo (Member # 22825) on :
maybe im not a body builder but i work out and weight lift...lyme is just a state of mind not body ;-)
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I drink whey protein, too, Beachnit.
Unfortunately, for me, Kastroo, I had MAJOR physical symptoms!! I needed help getting to the gym as I had trouble walking because I was so weak and off balance. I had a lot of muscle wasting, too.
There were days when I was weight lifting with Lyme that I lied down on the bench between sets and I had to have someone there to remind me what I was working on because my cognitive symptoms were so bad I'd forget.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
Beachinit.
Really, Dr. B said that? Did this person go for it....or were they taking it easy it the gym? I am trying to get back to my normal self in the gym with as much sleep and nutiritonal support as possible. I use a denatured whey protein, no sweeteners or attitives. I also like the Vega Protein brand powder.
Biggest thing for me was wrist pain, elbow pain, forearm pain and shoulder pain. I have gotten past the shoulder issue since resolving the frozen shoulder. I only have to deal with burning soles of feet in the gym along with pain in my left arm...some uncomfortable clicking in my elbow and crackling noises around my left scapula.
SixGoofy......my doctor does not want me doing the salt/C since she knows people who have almost dies from it. Do you think I could benefit from only the Humaworm.
Posted by mwhite18 (Member # 17777) on :
I started working out last february. I did a lot of heavier lifting (3 sets of reps of 4to 5)..now I do alot of medium/lighter weights with heavier reps.
I think it helped me mentally and physically. I have something to look forward to each day..even if its only for an hour. And i feel better at the end of the day knowing I didnt waste my whole day on youtube..just part of it lol.
My best advice is to know when to rest..dont overdo it. Bad enough our bodies are trying to fight an infection..having to repair overworked muscles doesnt help it any. www.bodybuilding.com has all types of different workout programs on the supersite section
Posted by Chronic Triathlete (Member # 15245) on :
That is the dilema...having your body require to repair muscle..will it hinder us in treatment? I mean I know Dr, B recommends working out but I believe he states moderate weights and higher reps.
Posted by mwhite18 (Member # 17777) on :
I dont think lifting heavily will hinder progress from my own experience but i'm not a doctor or an athletic trainer. I am still in treatment now because I relapsed a few months ago but thats a whole 'nother story.
Last year i was up to about 90/95 % well baseline and 100 on somedays. Did weighlifting help me get better? Not sure but I'd like to think so. Did it stop my remaining symptoms from clearing ? I highly doubt it.
Besides G.I. issues, most of my problems are neurological. I wouldnt recommend heavy lifting at first to someone with muscle weakness,heavy fatigue, etc.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
I also recall Dr. S said one of his patients got well by running marathons!
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
This approach would put me in the grave. Posted by kellephant (Member # 24885) on :
seekhelp,
i agree it doesn't matter how much determination i have, i end up in bed barely able to walk for days after working out. i am SO frustrated because i used to run 40 miles a week, and now just walking one about kills me. personally, i believe i HAVE to rest if i ever want to get better.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I briefly used salt/c when I was waiting for my LLMD appt, but never used it again. I used Humaworm and enula for parasites, so yes, it can be done without salt/c.
Before I got rebitten 7 years ago, I put my Lyme into remission three times with exercise and sunshine. The third time I had my amalgams out and stayed in remission for 12 years. This wasn't the same beast as when I got rebitten and had babesia, that method didn't work then, but I still feel exercise helped.
I have seen the talk where Dr. B mentions he has seen people go into remission from exercise alone.
I think everyone has to do the exercise they are able to do. If it's affecting you negatively for days afterward, it's too much. There were times I lifted light handweights for 10 minutes and went home. Just walking in/out of the gym was enough exercise those days. There were other days I could only walk down the driveway. Yet other times I could put in a full workout.
Posted by rob48 (Member # 25477) on :
I have been an active weightlifter and trainer for the past 30 years but have taken off the past 5 months because I have felt so very fatigued. I also started getting pains in my joints about 2 years ago - started with sciatica, leg and knee pain, shoulder pain and elbow pain. Had surgery on shoulder but did not help. Had MRI's/x-ray but nothing was found. I recently got a lyme test and have scheduled an appointment with a LLMD for May. Tingling and burning in my legs, feet and now face. Tremors of both hands started about 1 year ago. Major cognitive problems, Been to a neuro, shrink, ortho, pt, ot, acup but no luck. Many other unexplained symptoms. I want to get back into the gym but do not want to make my condition any worse.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
quote:Originally posted by rob48: I have been an active weightlifter and trainer for the past 30 years but have taken off the past 5 months because I have felt so very fatigued. I also started getting pains in my joints about 2 years ago - started with sciatica, leg and knee pain, shoulder pain and elbow pain. Had surgery on shoulder but did not help. Had MRI's/x-ray but nothing was found. I recently got a lyme test and have scheduled an appointment with a LLMD for May. Tingling and burning in my legs, feet and now face. Tremors of both hands started about 1 year ago. Major cognitive problems, Been to a neuro, shrink, ortho, pt, ot, acup but no luck. Many other unexplained symptoms. I want to get back into the gym but do not want to make my condition any worse.
You experienced most of what I have experienced. Keep in mind Lyme(Borrelia) tests are fairly worthless!!!! A joke actually! Do they Really believe they can test for something that can be found in hundreds of strains and can supress the immune system! LOL!
I hope you get answers!
Posted by Beachinit (Member # 21040) on :
richedie,
At a conference lecture I believe he was transcribed as saying he knew of a case where the pt basically body built his way out of the lyme. My guess is the nutrition or supps enhanced his immunity but who knows what happened really. Maybe the spirochetes did not like all that muscle remodeling going on in there house. But yes that is attributed to Dr. B. Of course he did not recommend any of us try it. I think he was trying to underscore the variability of this disease and maybe even some thinking outside the box.
Beachinit.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
Beachinit...I am so confused. Not being able to work out hard turns my world upside down and destoys me psychologically. I don't know what to do. It seems like some in this forum have had success though.
I know Dr. B does recommend weights for an hour at a time...but moderate for 12-15 reps.
At this point I'll be happy doing anything.
I know weight lifting is hard on the body in terms of repair and rebuilding. Would love to hear from others.
Peace..
Posted by sutherngrl (Member # 16270) on :
I have periodically tried to exercise. My main forms were walking, rebounding and lifting very light weights.
At first if I tried to walk more than 10 minutes at a moderate pace, I would end up bedridden for weeks. It was like it set me waayyyyy back. So I would stop walking for months at a time. Then later I would give it another go. Maybe just walking 5 minutes at a slower pace than before. Seem to be able to handle that better, although it seemed so pitiful, it was still better than doing nothing.
At the time that I am walking I feel okay. The misery usually hits later in the day or the next day. If it does hit, then I rest.... if its a day or a week.
Later I tried rebounding, actually just barely bouncing for 2 minutes at a time. This did not set me back as much as walking for some reason and I heard it is good for lymph drainage.
Recently I have started to lift 4 pound weights every other day. So far so good. I also have been more active, like shopping the last 2 or 3 weeks. So far so good on that.
Tomorrow I am actually planning to try and play a little golf. Something I have been missing for 4 years now. I have no idea what outcome to expect. I might end up in a wheel chair for all I know, but I am so sick of watching my life go by.
Anyway, the point is, I think you have to keep trying. Maybe it sets you back a little, maybe a lot; then you rest for as long as it takes; then you try again. Repeat, rest, try again!
My point of view is if I am going to be practically bedridden and miserable and exhausted anyway, I might as well periodically see what my body is capable of.
That being said, you can't expect to be able to do anything that even closely resembles what you did as a healthy person. Keep that in mind so as not to be too disappointed when and if you crash.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
Suthrngirl, I feel for you! I wish you could do the things you did when you were well.
That is partly my point, I can do the things I did when i was well. In fact, most people don't know there is anything wrong with me. I have been weight lifting hard every other day this past week....and I feel fine, not tired at all. I even snowboarded this year...I run I walk....no issues. My MAIN problem is pain! UGH!
Posted by anthropisces (Member # 15672) on :
richedie,
I do deadlifts with a peice of pvc as they bar and with inflatable swim flugels as the weights.
I also do curls with pencils that have marshmallows on the ends.
Seriously though, I have noticed that I feel better with ALOT of exercise. I will soon be riding my bike to work every single day and I'm betting that I'll be feeling better. As you know I'm working out in the gym too.
For me, it seems like the more I exercise, the better I feel. It doensn't have to be weightlifting either. It can be biking, swimming, anything.
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Do you truly have Babesia Richedie? I have to admit I have some jealousy when I read posts like 'I can do anything I could before I had Lyme' but I don't for a minute not sympathize that you and others deal with constant pain. That makes life super hard. We all face our battles.
Posted by Maradona (Member # 24552) on :
Friendly advice dont gamble with your most important organs by killing your heart at the jim. Lyme kills our ability to produce energy in mitochondria so lowers energy in the cell and denaturates our cells.
Do exercise only to send the blood in every area so our body and medicine do the job.
And that can be done by working just one part of the body at a time .
Before you think to exercise be sure you are taking MSM, D-Riboze,Phosphatidyl choline , CoQ10 ,aminoacids.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
Heavy lifting causes hormaonal changes as well and can almost act like a steroid. I wonder if I should be concerned.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
I won't let this disease destroy the things I love. I hit the gym hard again this past week...
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
quote:Originally posted by seekhelp: Do you truly have Babesia Richedie? I have to admit I have some jealousy when I read posts like 'I can do anything I could before I had Lyme' but I don't for a minute not sympathize that you and others deal with constant pain. That makes life super hard. We all face our battles.
I have had multiple tests of various kinds for Babesia and all come back positive. I have had two positive FISH tests from IGENEX as well. Still have the Air Hunger and taking Mepron.
I have been a nutrition nut and health/exercise nut for 24 years and my doctor feels that in me, that has helped me be a little more mild than most. However, I still suffer pain that can send me into tears....but I can still bodybuild, snowboard, play tennis, play guitar in a rock band, and most people would never know I suffer because I maybe stupidly tough it out. I don't believe everyone at work knows either.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
Anyone else have an opinion??? Or Experience?
Now that I am physically able, I have a hard time sopping myself from lifting heavy weights and pushing myself. I am making certain I get enough good nutrition and sleep and enough time or rest between workouts.
Only major problems I have remaining are issues with my feet, burning of the soles, pain in the right foot overall up to the ankle at times like a burning. Other issue is the left arm, mottled appearance, sweeling in the wrist and hand, pain in the muscles, elbow and wrist but seems to not bother me when lifting and does not hinder my work outs.
-Rich
Posted by Haley (Member # 22008) on :
I can't say that I am working out hard but after reading this thread I am going to go do some kind of work out.
Six - I love Pilates, this was one of my passions before becoming so ill.
I agree that we have to listen to our body and not push things if it seems like too much.
My experience has been that I ALWAYS feel better after some form of exercise. Even if I feel completely beaten down and tired when I start.
I personally am convinced that the oxygen is what helps me. I swim and I take deep breaths the entire time. I literally can feel a herx in my scalp (one of my symptoms) when I workout and take in oxygen. This is one of the reasons that I think that HBOT may work.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
Worked out heavy with weights thie evening. Some discomfort and pain in my left wrist, elbow and shoulder during certain movements, limiting for sure.
I hope that when I finally get better than my feet stop burning and my joints in my left arm stop aching.
[ 05-10-2010, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: richedie ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Why "Heavy" weights? Why not just weights? We all don't have to be SuperMan. More is not necessarily better. I think lifting the amount of weight that brings you pleasure would be just the right amount.
No contest needed. Just enjoy yourself. -
Posted by Beachinit (Member # 21040) on :
Just bought a 25# dumbell at W.mart to add to my collection. Looking forward to adding some more muscle. 5,000 units vitamin d, 12.5 mg DHEA/day and 48gm whey protein on most days. Was out mowing the lawn yesterday so won't get to try it out till tomorrow. I think going slightly anabolic is a good thing and actually will help fight lyme/Bb by depriving it of nutrients that it is otherwise stealing from us. Looking at it the other way around, when your are catabolic your are breaking down muscle and connective tissue and feeding the spirochetes a heck of a good meal.
Beachinit.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Hmm, I answered this but my response is gone. ???
Maybe try more detox. Perhaps the working out is stirring up toxins. Sore soles can be a sign of sluggish lymphatic system. Red root, rebounding, water, and lymphatic massage are all good for the lymph flow.
Be sure your alignment is right. Poor alignment can hurt the joints. It could be Lyme, but check your alignment as well.
Posted by trigal2 (Member # 20578) on :
I have been a competitve runner for 20 years.
Prior to getting lyme I raced as a professional Duathlete and was a nationally ranked masters runner.
Then the bomb hit.
The process back to health has not be linear but as I get healthier it is becoming much more linear.
I have another health condition that puts the competitve brakes on me for now but as far as training with lyme?
In the beginning I went from laying in bed all day to brief walks, to hikes, to jogging, and now to running about 75% of my pre-lyme capacity.
What worked for me was the 50% rule. I would do 50% of what I felt I could do in terms of distance and effort. The other 50% was left over for healing and recovery.
IME, getting out and doing my thing was a HUGE part of my recovery. You just have to know how much and at what effort. Nutritional recovery even more important then before getting lyme.
Maybe back down on the competitve level of lifting - as much as that is not appealing - and do a little less then what you feel you can do.
WIth the correct tx, eventually you will get your strenght back, but if you push it too much , to soon, you may only be hurting yourself.
Just getting to the gym and doing some light weight(which is probably not too light!) is good for your psyche - keeps you connected to who you are and what you love to do without harming yourself.
You are an athlete so you know your body's cues. Now is the time to listen to them and go accordingly. TG
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
quote:Originally posted by Keebler: - Why "Heavy" weights? Why not just weights? We all don't have to be SuperMan. More is not necessarily better. I think lifting the amount of weight that brings you pleasure would be just the right amount.
No contest needed. Just enjoy yourself. -
Understand that I was into serious bodybuilding in the 90s and even a little in the early part of this past decade. Two goals I made for myself are to enter a natural bodybuilding competition and to also start my own personal training company. Unfortunately these infections are getting in the way and due to the need for health insurance....I can't make a jump to my own business just yet.
But, understand...bodybuilding has been a huge, huge part of my life, I love the challenge, watching my body transform, etc. It has always been one of my greatest passions.
Hi Sixgoofykids,
I believe the sore sols are nothing more than Bart and company. Maybe even some Babs mixed in. Never experienced any of this before. Alignment is fine, trust me on that one. The joint problems are all in my left arm which is where all of this hell began two years ago when I started having symptoms.
Maybe I should back off a touch....but it is tough. I am stubborn and hate having anything like this control me physically. One thing I will say is that I have had little to none of the fatigue of others. Mine has been all pain, tingling, air hunger, burning soles, etc.
One thing I did this year is I went out and took my daughter skiiing/snowboarding. I snowboarded like I was 19 and did exceptionally well. It was good for me.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
I have been back in the gym 3 days a week and it is really hard to hold back any longer. I want to go to town in there. Only thing that holds me back is hearing stories of how it could keep me from getting well.
Posted by daniel (Member # 22201) on :
hey,
i am also do my workout every 3 days..... im lifting weights and will start soon with some boxing. i always lifted some weights.. but not constantly.. now since 6 weeks im lifting them constantly... and feeling better... 1 day after workout im feeling tired bzt the second day good Posted by erikjh1972 (Member # 20964) on :
if you feel good enough to lift then go. i had to take the better part of last year off due to this illness.
as soon as i could hit the gym, i did. it was rough at first but the more i went i felt like it was actually helping me. did i get tired after, you bet. but it kept me sane.
im actually going to work out in a half hour.
chest day, as heavy as i can go.
long story short....4 months into treatment--i hit the gym. i just went when i feel ok enough.
9 months into it....feeling better, 4-5 times a week with weights.
good luck!!!
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
I definetely feel good enough to lift! However, I have pain in my left side that bothers me but feels better when I lift weights.
I don't get tired after...in fact it feels no different than when I lifted before getting sick...other than this darn arm pain and foot pain!
Erik, so you lifting heavy?
Posted by erikjh1972 (Member # 20964) on :
heavy is relative but for me yes.
usually 6-8 rep range with compound movements and 10-15 for shaping movements.
the symptoms i have left are neck pain(on occasion) and fatigue but that has gotten better throughout treatment.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
A big one with me is left arm pain, cracking and popping of the left arm joints, terrible muscle soreness in the forearm.
Are you seeing an LLMD? Are they OK with the strenuous workouts? Only thing that stopped me is Dr. B stating to go easy, not strenuous. Believe me, being involved in bodybuilding for years, I want to go nuts.
Posted by jwick25 (Member # 15190) on :
A couple of months ago, I was going to the gym with my husband 3-4 times a week. I would lift weights, but nothing crazy (which I couldn't do if I wanted to).
I noticed that my left shoulder was developing a pain. I flared up with lyme/bart in April and am still being treated.
I have not been to the gym in a few weeks. I was finally building some nice muscle tone!
I now take short walks when I can. I hope to get back to the gym soon.
It was nice to feel that this disease wasn't taking everything from me...again.
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
What I would give just to be able to work out for a day. I can't believe people can lift heavy weights with Lyme AND Babesia. It's unexplainable if an organism is using up your oxygen.
Posted by erikjh1972 (Member # 20964) on :
richedie
well i only work out as hard as my body will let me. if i had your arm pain then i dont know.
trust me there was a time when i wanted to go to the gym sooo bad but i couldnt even get out of bed. it was a huge step to even walk back into a gym and pick up something.
i dont know if working out helps lyme or not, i dont think anybody does. all i know is that it keeps me sane in a time that i could go insane.
in my opinion if your even thinking about working out then your feeling better somehow. i believe it has helped me, maybe its different for everyone just like the rest of lyme.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
I never had issues getting out of bed or any cardiovascular issues in the gym since getting sick...only pain and joint popping/cracking issues. The pain is less while working out....but I have some range of motion issues I am working through with my shoulder.
My doctor said these disease effect everyone so differently that some of their patients still run marathons and lift heavy while some can barely move. It is a broad range.
I just worry that breaking down muscle tissue and having to rebuild tissue is a lot on the body while also dealing with infections.
Posted by Beachinit (Member # 21040) on :
If you stay in positive protein balance, and have some testosterone on board, can be adrenal, genital or by supplementation, then with isometric/isotonic resistance exercises you should have a net gain of muscle mass assuming an adequate but non-excessive caloric and nutrient intake. Adding muscle IMO is the single best way to improve your immune system function and will help you beat your Lyme disease as part of an overall LLMD/DO directed medical treatment program.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
Thanks! Did your LLMD tell you that? Is there research to back it?
quote:Originally posted by Beachinit: If you stay in positive protein balance, and have some testosterone on board, can be adrenal, genital or by supplementation, then with isometric/isotonic resistance exercises you should have a net gain of muscle mass assuming an adequate but non-excessive caloric and nutrient intake. Adding muscle IMO is the single best way to improve your immune system function and will help you beat your Lyme disease as part of an overall LLMD/DO directed medical treatment program.
Posted by Beachinit (Member # 21040) on :
Hospital nutritionists have used serum protein, body mass index, total lymphocyte counts, serum transferrin for years and noted that those at risk for infectious disease had low numbers on these parameters. They knew about these relationships in the mid 80's and much before that in the extreme cases seen in 3rd world called kwashiorkor. It makes sense that positive protein balance will improve these parameters and is part of Dr B's guidelines. Exercise is the only way to build muscle mass and muscle mass allows the body to build a massive store of protein, increasing our protein reserves and allowing maintenance of immunoglobulins etc which are themselves built from amino acids eg protein building blocks. Bone is a reserve for calcium and muscle is a reserve for protein. Now Lyme and Co's do not kill immediately but do leach nutrients from their host on a chronic basis. The do this at the expense of our immune competency, wound healing, trauma recovery etc etc.
Posted by Beachinit (Member # 21040) on :
I forgot muscle supplies the immune system with most of its Glutamine which is a precursor to Glutathione. But, like I said my fear is the extra work your body must go through to rebuild and repair muscle!
Posted by Beachinit (Member # 21040) on :
I was afraid too but it is really helping me physically and mentally to see measureable gains in work/functional capacity. A side benefit is not being a soft over 50 guy anymore. Exercise is non-aerobic, work up slowly, see the improvement before going to the next step. You've gone a long way on your antibiotic regimen, why not try this.
Posted by erikjh1972 (Member # 20964) on :
totally agree with you beachinit.
i think as long as you have enough protein and eat well you should be fine.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
I might try to start lifting heavier and harder tomorrow. I am concerned i will tax my system too much! I also picked up some Whey Factors unsweetened whey protein.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
Well I worked out really hard yesterday, much heavier....we'll see if it knocks me out. So far I feel fine no increase in symptoms, but I am still afraid I could cut into recovery from these diseases. Dr. B suggests an easy workout with light to moderate weights.
Posted by FunkOdyssey (Member # 15855) on :
There's also the fact that testosterone influences the immune system in a manner that makes it fight lyme more effectively. Although estrogen stimulates the release of both Th1 and Th2 cytokines, the ratio becomes Th2 dominant. This is thought to be the reason women are more prone to autoimmune disease.
Testosterone is generally immunosuppressive but it preferentially suppresses the Th2 cytokines, making the ratio favor Th1.
quote:Consistent production of a higher TH1:TH2 cytokine ratio by stimulated T cells in men compared with women.
Gir�n-Gonz�lez JA, Moral FJ, Elvira J, Garc�a-Gil D, Guerrero F, Gavil�n I, Escobar L.
Servicio de Medicina Interna and Secci�n de Endocrinolog�a, Hospital Universitario Puerta del Mar, Facultad de Medicina, C�diz, Spain. [email protected] Abstract
OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the T helper 1 (T(H)1)/T helper 2 (T(H)2) lymphocyte cytokine profiles in women and men and to study the in vitro effects of sex hormones on lymphocyte secretion of cytokines. METHODS: Analysis of serum concentration and lymphocyte synthesis of T(H)1 (gamma interferon (INF-gamma) and interleukin 2 (IL-2)) and T(H)2 (interleukin 4 (IL-4) and interleukin 10 (IL-10)) cytokines was performed in 20 women and 15 men. Analysis of modifications in cytokine secretion induced by supplementation of lymphocyte culture with increasing concentrations of sex hormones was carried out. RESULTS: Higher levels of INF-gamma and IL-2 and lower levels of IL-4 and IL-10 were detected in the phytohemagglutinin-stimulated lymphocyte culture supernatants of men compared with women; the INF-gamma:IL-4 ratio was significantly higher in men. In women, similar concentrations of all the cytokines were detected in culture supernatants obtained during the follicular and the luteal phases. The addition of sex hormones did not modify the concentration of cytokines in supernatants of phytohemagglutinin-stimulated T-cell cultures. CONCLUSIONS: Women present a predominant T(H)2 cytokine profile, which could be involved in immune responses characterized principally by the secretion of antibodies. This could be a factor implicated in the higher concentration of immunoglobulins or the increased prevalence of autoimmune diseases detected in females. PMID: 10870028
quote:Lyme borreliosis reinfection: might it be explained by a gender difference in immune response?
Jarefors S, Bennet L, You E, Forsberg P, Ekerfelt C, Berglund J, Ernerudh J.
Division of Clinical Immunology, University of Link�ping, Link�ping, Sweden. [email protected] Abstract
Lyme borreliosis is a tick-borne disease often manifesting as a circular skin lesion. This cutaneous form of the disease is known as erythema migrans. In a 5-year follow-up study in southern Sweden, 31 of 708 individuals initially diagnosed with erythema migrans and treated with antibiotics were found to be reinfected with Borrelia burgdorferi. Although men and women were tick-bitten to the same extent, 27 of the 31 reinfected individuals were women, all of whom were over 44 years of age. The aim of this study was to determine whether this discrepancy in gender distribution could be a result of differences in immunological response. Twenty single-infected and 21 reinfected women and 18 single-infected and three reinfected men were included in the study. None of the participants showed any sign of an ongoing B. burgdorferi infection, and thus the habitual response was captured. Lymphocytes were separated from blood and stimulated with antigens. The secretion of interleukin (IL)-4, IL-6, IL-10, interferon (IFN)-gamma and tumour necrosis factor (TNF)-alpha was measured by enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA), enzyme-linked immunosorbent spot-forming cell assay (ELISPOT) or Immulite. No difference was detected in cytokine secretion between single-infected and reinfected individuals. We also compared the immunological response in men and women, regardless of the number of B. burgdorferi infections. Women displayed a significantly higher spontaneous secretion of all cytokines measured. The ratios of IL-4:IFN-gamma and IL-10:TNF-alpha were significantly higher in women. Gender differences in immune reactivity might in part explain the higher incidence of reinfection in women. The higher IL-4:IFN-gamma and IL-10:TNF-alpha ratios seen in women indicate that postmenopausal women have T helper type 2 (Th2)-directed reactivity with impaired inflammatory responses which might inhibit the elimination of spirochetes.
PMID: 16771857
Major players here:
IL-4: Th2 cytokine, which blocks the action of IFN-gamma which is necessary to eradicate Lyme infection. Testosterone inhibits IL-4 production.
IL-10: Th2 cytokine that inhibits the Th1 response needed to clear Lyme infection. Higher in women than men, again due to sex hormones.
IFN-gamma: major Th1 cytokine, probably the most important for fighting intracellular infections including Lyme and co-infections.
So, aside from building up your body's store of protein, heavy resistance exercise increases testosterone levels and may be the reason Dr. B saw such good results in bodybuilding patients.
A major source of estrogen in men is body fat, which produces the aromatase enzyme that converts testosterone to estradiol. So men will further improve their testosterone/estradiol ratio through bodybuilding by reducing body fat.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
I thought Dr. B only saw good results in one patient who happened to bodybuild? There were others?
Posted by troutscout (Member # 3121) on :
I agree with what both of you are saying here....unless I am in the gym, weight lifting.
I do have a few suggestions for the pain, and recovery process.
I found something back in November.
I'll PM you two.... I believe you will find it helpful as I now have several nutritionists, fitness, bicycling and track and field trainers and coaches as well as the local University Fitness and Training College looking at or already using it.
I feel that a two days rest IS key for the first 2 months. Go for moderate weights on and off...go heavy once a week....I found it to push the abx and flush the boogers out.
I had it all.......Erhlichiosis, Babs, Lyme and then Bart.
Also, increase your BCAA's, take LARGE doses of vitamin's B and C -along with Magnesium Malate.
I might up my dose of C. I take 2 gms a day, 600 mg of Magnesium chelate and B Complex 50mgs.
I take extra whey protein using Whey Factors.
YOu say the first two months? For me the first two months was 22 years ago! LOL. I have been lifting since I was 17. I never stopped. I took little stretches off here and there though.
Right now I am lifting on a 1 day on, 1 day off split. But I help my father with his business on Saturday which breaks the cycle and adds an extra day.
I might change to Tuesday - weights, Thursday - weights and help father with business on Saturday. I also like to do light walking on off days. I periodize...so I will do lighter for a while...then moderate and then heavy...then rotate. I do each body part once a week right now so I can't do the go heavy one day unless I break it up over two weeks. So, I would have a moderate week, then heavy week.
So trout scout you really got better while lifting and lifting heavy? Can you send me your lifting program as I'd be interested. How long were you sick?
What was your diet at the time of treatment and lifting program? -Rich
Posted by troutscout (Member # 3121) on :
I was very ill for 5 years...the lifting drove the abx DEEP and cleared me of a lot of infection...loved it.
I would herx while working out!
Man...I don't have a set workout schedule...never have.
Played/Coached Sports up until....I was debilitated by Lyme....
Currently rebuilding myself...started again 2 1/2 weeks ago already up 8 pounds in muscle mass.
I am slim and trim at 6 ft 1 in 153lbs
Two years ago....I went from 147 to 168 in 75 days, changing my Bench Press from 90lbs to 240lbs.
I morph quickly....
Later
Trout Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
troutscout...
how does your doctor feel about lifting? That is encouraging! I notice no difference whether I go heavy or light.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
bump
Posted by chaps (Member # 25286) on :
Anytime I work out too hard, I crash.
I think this is because Epstein Barr is part of the picture for me. EBV is known to be exercise intolerant. Maybe some of the other underlying viruses are, too.
Posted by Maradona (Member # 24552) on :
For me exercise is the time when I'm my old self no any kind of symptoms at all and if I stay for thre hours in JIM it stays that way no any sign of sick filling just filling excellent.
I wish I have all that equipment at home and exercise whenever start to fill any symptom of desease.
When I feel bad at home I go and exercise and I'm OK after that for kouple hours.
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