I have had Lyme/Babs for over 5 years and recently was seeing a LLMD who was treating me with high potency vitamin C Iv's, Glutathione Ivs, and an Omdamed machine. I have been feeling wonderful and stopped treatment a couple of months ago.
I had to take Flagyl to treat a non-Lyme related bacterial infection and now a couple of weeks later I have this sort of brain fog/vertigo off balance feeling and soreness in my wrists/hands along with fatigue.
Is this a herx from the Flagyl? Made an appointment to get the treatment on Monday but will have to spend the weekend miserable. Wanted to ride my motorcycle but can't feeling off balance. Any advice on how to clear these toxins out of my brain or just hope the treatment helps on Monday.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Balance issues have totally changed my life so I've studied a lot about all this.
First, I'm very sorry. It can get better but I do not think it will be better enough to safely ride your bike very soon (maybe in a couple weeks but probably not this weekend). Beyond toxins, flagyl can affect the inner and middle ear in many ways.
Yes, liver support may help - or it may not. Ginger capsules (tea is not high enough dose) may help to a degree, to offset symptoms.
Back to the original question: Is this a herx from the Flagyl?
Yes, as flagyl is a cyst buster, it could have broken open some lyme cysts and you may now need to address "escaped" spirochetes. Your LLMD should know more about this.
As to what can help with balance, you might see some of the posts and links here:
====================
Specific for LYME patients - lots of details about ears and what can help:
Metronidizole (Flagyl) has been reported on several occasions to be ototoxic ( Blake and Butt 1984; Hibberd, Nicoll et al. 1984; Hibberd, Nicoll et al. ...
=====================
There are at least 743 drugs that are known to be ototoxic. Here are just 84 of them:
You can look inside this book and read customer reviews here:
Ototoxic Drugs Exposed: Prescription Drugs and Other Chemicals That Can (and Do) Damage Our Ears
- by Neil G. Bauman --------
Just checking my copy of Bauman's book, Metronidizole is listed as Ototoxic (page 155). Flagyl makes the cross-search ototoxic list on page 147. -
[ 06-10-2010, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by wendihk (Member # 20554) on :
Thanks Keebler, I didn't even think that it was just a reaction to the drug itself but that makes sense being that I have been doing so well. Any ideas on how to hasten the recovery from having this drug in my body? Do you think I should take Dramamine? How can I make this go away faster and what if, heaven forbid it doesn't?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- It can take a while. It's very hard to say.
I would NOT take Dramamine. It's got toxicity problems of its own. Ginger Capsules are just as effective and much safer. But, if damage occurred, nothing is going to fix it right away. It takes time and keeping the ears a quiet as possible.
Of course, liver support is key, too.
Also, ears are much more liable to damage from even lower levels of noise even for up to a full year after taking even one ototoxic med (or OTC product - aspirin and acetaminophen are also ototoxic).
Wear earplugs even when around a hairdryer, blender, vacuum. You would need extreme ear protection on a motorcycle but also remember that sound travels though our bones (and through our nose, to sinus bones, to ears).
More about that in Bauman's book and at the various links. Remember that when our ears are messed up, so is just about everything. So, take extra special care.
I wish I had the energy to explain more but I'm just toast. Good luck.
[ 06-10-2010, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Dramamine can cause tinnitus (ringing in the ears). That is a sign of ototoxicity. It can also mask vestibular damage. It's also not safe to take dramamine and drive - or even really walk too much or too far - as it can cause muscle weakness that can cause falling.
The most common side-effect of dimenhydrinate is sedation which can vary from slight drowsiness to deep sleep, and including inability to concentrate, lassitude (lack of energy, fatigue, lethargy), dizziness, hypotension (low blood pressure) muscular weakness and inco-ordination.
Other side-effects include gastro-intestinal disturbances (affecting the stomach and intestines) such as nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea or constipation and epigastric pain (pain in the upper, middle region of the stomach).
Headache, tinnitus (ringing in the ears), elation and depression, irritability, nightmares, anorexia (lack of appetite), difficulty in micturition (passing of urine), dryness of the mouth, tightness of the chest and tingling, heaviness and weakness of the hands may occur. In infants and children it may act as a cerebral (brain) stimulant.
. . . Dimenhydrinate may mask the warning symptoms of damage caused by ototoxic medicines and may effect the metabolism of other medicines in the liver. . . .
. . . Caution should be used when DRAMAMINE is given in conjunction with certain antibiotics which may cause ototoxicity (toxic effects on the nerves of the ear). . . . -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- A glutathione IV may be very helpful.
Ginger can help with symptoms but it won't help ear nerves to repair - or not directly or right away, anyway. Your LLMD may know of a LL ear specialist (neurotologist). It may just take a little time.
From my file notes, in general (or with use for flying): ----------------
From: The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook (Tillotson, et.al.)
WHAT IT DOES: Ginger root is pungent in taste, and warming, and mildly tonic in action. It improves digestion, reduces nausea and mucus, settles the stomach, and reduces inflammation.
SAFETY ISSUES: Ginger may increase absorption of pharmceuticals, and may irritate the stomach in sensitive individuals or those with severe acid reflux problems.
STARTING DOSAGE:
* Dried powder: 500-1500 mg one to three times per day
* Tea: drink freely . . .
* Because of its digestive and anti-nausea actions, ginger can be used to treat dyspepsia, nausea and vomiting associated with pregnancy, vertigo, dizziness and motion sickness (Schmid et al., 1994; Visalyaputra et al., 1998).
. . . .
Ginger acts as a digestive aid as well as a peripheral blood circulation stimulant, so it is useful for increasing poor circulation. Its pungent essential oils aid digestion by stimulating the activity of digestive enzymes (Platel K et al., 1998).
However, despite its hot spicy taste, ginger inhibits the synthesis of the ``bad-guy'' inflammatory chemicals, prostaglandin and thromboxane (Kiuchi et al., 1992).
TCM doctors tell us that fresh ginger is better than dry ginger for easing nausea, mucus, indigestion and stomach pain, and for stopping diarrhea caused by poor digestion. Conversely, they tell us dry ginger is better for warming the body.
The anti-inflammatory actions of ginger, noted centuries ago by TAM doctors, are strong enough to reduce muscular discomfort and pain in osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis (Srivastava et al., 1992). . . .
HOMEOPATHIC remedies (pellets under the tongue) are also helpful. Nux-vomica never worked so well for me, but others say it helps them. Tabucum and Cocculus, together, have kept my stomach contents from showering air travelers - and it can have an immediate effect. Boiron is the brand I used but there are a couple other good brands.
Nux-vomica
Tabacum 30 c
Cocculus Indicus 30 c
==================
Acupuncture can help - but also having an acupuncturist teach you how to do it yourself as needed - and also teaching you acupressure on the wrist points. It was never enough for me, though - not by a long shot.
When I fly, I take both Ginger Capsules for prevention and then, if there is a disturbance of my inner universe, the homeopathics as needed.
As for taking Ginger besides to help when flying, it also helps reduce nausea and also is wonderful for a pain reducer and anti-inflammatory agent. I think it may also help lessen herx effects. -