How long does a tick need to be attached before you need to concern yourself with possible infection?
Is there a consensus on this?
Posted by 17hens (Member # 23747) on :
I know two people personally who had a tick on them less than 20 minutes. Both flicked the tick off (not embedded) and got bull's eye rashes in the exact place with symptoms following. Scares the heck out of me.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
A minute.
Posted by painted turtle (Member # 7801) on :
So you are saying, since I had my sister remove a tick from me (nymph) last evening, I should get some preventative treatment even though it was only attached less than two hours and not engorged or deeply embedded?
What about the adult ticks? I've seen several of those fall off me too. Not embedded, just on me.
Visiting Virginia. Gotta stop hiking. I guess. Even though I love it and already have been healing from a rancid case of neuroB...etc.
Posted by 17hens (Member # 23747) on :
I read on here that only the adult female ticks engorge. The others feed without engorging. Oh, my!
My humble reply to you is an emphatic YES!!
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Well... if it were ME I would take preventative treatment...but I also won't walk on grass unless forced to.
So maybe I'm just paranoid?
But I really wouldn't believe the "24 hr" or "48 hr" rules posted elsewhere on the internet.
Posted by painted turtle (Member # 7801) on :
Hard to know what to do, given the political climate and how much I have already battled with this.
I mean, am I going to have to go through all sorts of BS and hoops if I didn't save the tick and so far I don't have a bullseye rash? Likely. Plus I am out of town!!
Anyway, thanks for the info. Lymetoo....I am born to hike so not doing so is out of the question. I check carefully for ticks every time I am finished which is the only reason I found this one....
YES THE SIZE OF A POPPY SEED!! Was looking carefully.
Posted by Sammi (Member # 110) on :
The tick that bit me was not engorged and was attached for three hours at the very most. It transmitted five diseases!
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by 17hens: I read on here that only the adult female ticks engorge. The others feed without engorging. Oh, my!
Yes. I read that too. Where was that info??
turtle.. the "bad" thing is that you don't know if the tick carried ANY diseases. But I'm such a worry wort that I would treat.
Can you call your LLMD? or don't have one anymore?
Posted by painted turtle (Member # 7801) on :
Lymetoo, I don't have LLMD anymore, been dealing with it all myself and hopping over to a mainstream for urgent things.
I will watch and wait. At least I saw it and I know if symptoms increase or something, there was indeed a tick attached.
Checking for ticks has proven a worthwhile endeavor for certain. I can't believe how crazy it has become with all the ticks in Virginia. I wonder if it is this bad up in NY and ME. I don't feel the need to check so systematically when I am in TX (and it's not because there's no lyme in Texas!)
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Actually, as soon as infection is in the bloodstream, there really is no going back. Not all ticks are infected but whether one is engorged or not - if the mouth parts were attached, and if they were infected - that's all it needs to get into the blood stream. Mouth parts carry infection, too. Bb doesn't just get back in the cage in between feedings.
Here's hoping for non-infected ticks. There are many things you can do now though, just in case. Allicin &/or Olive Leaf Extract might be some help for the time being - I'd want as much protection as possible, just in case. A rife machine, too, just in case you have access to that?
You might still consider seeing doctor and asking for doxy.
Good luck.
------------ Once in the blood stream, how soon it can reach the brain (nervous systems) once it's gotten into the bloodstream:
"After a tick bite, Bb undergoes rapid hematogenous dissemination, and for example, can be found within the central nervous system as soon as twelve hours after entering the bloodstream." -
Posted by Wimenin (Member # 15294) on :
How long..?
All it takes is a split second of an infected tick regurging the bacteria into your bloodstream. Once in the bloodstream, its too late, you need to start on abx.
Remember that not all ticks are infected, and just because one crawled on you doesnt mean you were bitten. And just because you were bitten doesnt mean that the tick was infected with lyme disease.
However, if you found one embedded on you, why take any chances? Go to the drs and start abx treatment to be safe. And if youve already started getting odd symptoms, bullseye rash, flu like symptoms, get yourself to a LLMD pronto to start the protocol.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by painted turtle: I don't feel the need to check so systematically when I am in TX (and it's not because there's no lyme in Texas!) [/QB]
You're right. They really aren't that bad in Texas unless you're out hiking .. mostly in central or eastern areas of TX.
I think it's too dang hot for ticks there!! They probably lay low! I'm in MO now, but we go back to TX twice a year. I haven't seen a tick there in 30 yrs (been here for 14) ...but they are THERE!
Hope you escape on this one!
Posted by onbam (Member # 23758) on :
Stephen Barthold, of the Barthold and Luft study, told me that the minimum infectious dose is 1 germ. That means you need to treat for any tick that you find on you, since they, like mine, could have injected you with their fluids without having "dug in," and that, if the tick's infected, they probably transmitted it.
Posted by painted turtle (Member # 7801) on :
Thanks everyone. I'll be flying back home in a few days and will check in with a GP for some abx just to be sure.
Hopefully, I'll escape this one, I've had enough of lyme hell.
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
Turtle, Don't get hung up on attachment times. There ARE no exact lengths of time before you are "infected", as a tick is live organism & will bite in & fill up at it's OWN pace. This can vary by hours.
A deer tick that has B.B. (Lyme) "on-board", mostly in it's midgut, gets Some of the 'ketes into you upon first biting in, but those often don't survive.
You you can think of it as a graph of Spirochettes Delivered vs. Time:
The curve starts out with a small bump (initial bite), then drops off, but starts to grow substantially as you approach 24 hrs of attachment, gradually levels & finally drops off, until- at about the 3rd day- the tick's done, it falls off your body & the graph nose-dives to zero.
It's those 'ketes that bathed in your blood for a day, safe inside the tick from your "killer" white blood cells, that had the chance to alter their outer- protein coating (the Osp-C layer) to be more similar to your own [red blood cell's] surface protein coding, that pose the higher risk, as your own immune system will not see them as well. Sorta like a biologic cloaking system, if you will.
It's a survival skill adopted over the many decades (some entomologists say centuries) that allows this critter to thrive... & create so much havoc.
In Dr. Burrascano's "guidelines", attachment times of only 4 to 6 hours have been known to result in the patient contracting Lyme from an infected tick. But Some on these boards insist they've aquired the disease with even shorter attachment times, which IS theoretically possible...
A lot of variables are at work:
How sick the tick Was (# of 'ketes) How good your immune system is working How carefully you got the bugger out, etc.
Best to very carefully remove (no squishing or "aggravants", like chemicals) & always treat a high-risk bite with 4-6 weeks of abx.
Posted by painted turtle (Member # 7801) on :
Great post Kete Tracker, I imagine you have tons of ticks in NH.
My sister was very careful removing tick. I would have botched it. She has great hand-eye and has worked in medical industry. She said it wasn't lodged very deeply so I may be ok here. My immune system is doing fine these days too (aside from its over activity)...another thing in my favor.
Time will tell!
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
Attached less than 2 hours, Not engorged & the tick cleanly removed, huh? You're probably gonna be fine, but a Big factor (as to whether it's a "high-risk bite"), which I forgot to mention, is whether you're in an endemic area for Lyme. And also whether co-infections like babesia are a problem around there as well. Mind my asking what county & state you're in?
If it Was an Ixodes-genus tick & it's a Lyme-endemic county you're in (or near to), I'd do the doxycycline route... just to be safe. 28 days. And since all tetracyclines make you photo-sensitive... by all means, stay out o' the Sun! (& that tall grass. )
Posted by painted turtle (Member # 7801) on :
Yes, endemic area, visiting Virginia (Loudon county).
Going back to Texas.... MUCHO sun!
In a couple weeks going to another endemic area... Maine.
I'll tell the GP to give me doxy, hopefully he will oblige. And hopefully by the time I get the doxy....it won't be past the prime attack/prevention time.
Posted by 'Kete-tracker (Member # 17189) on :
oooh! TeXas. That sucks...as far as avoiding rays. Hopefully we'll be a ways inland, won't we? (Away from the oil fumes.)
In any case, a short course of "prophylactic" antibiotics are more effective when used earlier rather than later....
Maine should be MUcho nicer this time of year. I'm only a 10 minute drive from the border myself. We had a cottage in Ocean Park, near Old Orchard Beach, when I was a kid. Sucks to think the borrelia have made it up the coast that far already. But at least they aren't found up at the beach! (Too hot, dry & salty)
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