Despite the horrible episode with the ID doc a couple of days ago, my husband is now having issues.
I heard the lyme and bart can be transmitted sexually and saliva. I did not really believe it at first, but here is what happen.
When I first became ill. My first symptoms was Kidney Pain, and Muscle Pain.
My husband these last couple of weeks is developing these sores all over his body. They are like pimples, ALL Over, Sometimes with white heads, some times without, sometimes with pus, sometimes without. They go away after two weeks.
Then, show up in other places.
He also has pain in his shoulder blade. Just like me. His right shoulder. Just random pain. Comes and goes. Sad thing is I know how he feels.
He also developed this horrible pain in his kidney, were he just had to stop what he was doing and he had to stretch it out, tried going the bathroom, none of it helped. Only slight relief when he layed on his back and rested for 10 to 15 mins, until the pain slowly subsided.
He now has veins looking bluish purple on his legs.
I have them ALL OVER since I have been sick. But I also now have the bart stretch marks too now on my sides and inner theighs.
Help? I see my LLND on the 26th.
And the funny thing is, just two days ago, I posted saying his legs looked better than mine Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
You husband should definitely be tested for Lyme by your LLMD without a doubt.
Gael
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Can he get into to see that same LL ND as soon as possible? Take photos of all rashes, at all stages.
Yes, sadly, as you have been diagnosed with lyme, ehrlichia and bartonella, those are the top three infections that he should be assessed for - but also for other tick-borne infections, too, including Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever.
That appointment on the 26th with your LL ND is for you. He will need to make an appointment as soon as possible. This can be life-threatening. Please have him call the LL ND Friday morning.
Lyme Disease Association - see menu, lower left for rash photos -
[ 07-02-2010, 02:19 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Rumigirl (Member # 15091) on :
Oh, dear! My sympathies! Get an appt for him ASAP. And, although it sounds like it's too late now, use protection from here on out. What a sad state of affairs. Well, the good news is that you at least know the score.
Posted by lymetwister (Member # 19590) on :
From the Wilkipedia:
While Lyme spirochetes have been found in insects as well as ticks,[50] reports of actual infectious transmission appear to be rare.[51] Lyme spirochetes have been found in semen[52] and breast milk,[53] however transmission of the spirochete by these routes is not known to occur.[54] Congenital transmission of Lyme disease can occur from an infected mother to fetus through the placenta during pregnancy. The risk for fetal harm is much higher in the first three months of pregnancy than later. Prompt antibiotic treatment almost always prevents fetal harm. Pregnant Lyme-disease patients cannot be treated with the first-choice antibiotic, doxycycline (see below), as it is potentially harmful for the fetus. Instead, erythromycin is usually given; it is less effective against the disease but harmless for the fetus.[55]
I believe Lyme can be passed from one to another. Look at all of the families on here, where mother/child(ren) and spouses are all infected. Coincidence ? I think not ! Can I prove it no. But if it look and quacks like a duck, then.............
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
My husband does not have Lyme or any co-infections from me. We've been together about 15 years.
Since you live in an obviously endemic area - it could be from the environment. I don't have bart to my knowledge but bart can be transmitted by fleas & probably other insects. It's known as "cat scratch fever" for a reason...
So, please, don't feel guilty about passing some horrible illness to your husband. It's still unknown as to whether this is sexually transmitted. There are other ways your husband may have been infected!
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Bartonella are transmitted by insect vectors such as fleas, sand flies and mosquitoes.
At least eight Bartonella species or subspecies are known to infect humans.[2] In June 2007, a new species under the genus, called Bartonella melophagi, was discovered.[3]
This is the sixth species known to infect humans, and the ninth species and subspecies, overall, known to infect humans.
--
Treatment is dependent on which strain of Bartonella is found in a given patient. While Bartonella species are susceptible to a number of standard antibiotics in vitro--macrolides and tetracycline, for example--the efficacy of antibiotic treatment in immunocompetent individuals is uncertain.[6]
Immunocompromised patients should be treated with antibiotics because they are particularly susceptible to systemic disease and bacteremia. Drugs of particular effectiveness include trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole, gentamicin, ciprofloxacin, and rifampin; B. henselae is generally resistant to penicillin, amoxicillin, and nafcillin.[6]
Posted by sutherngrl (Member # 16270) on :
I agree with Sparkle. It is not proven to be sexually transmitted. It is very likely that he was bitten by a tick and got it. That would make more sense in my opinion.
If you want to believe it is sexually transmitted, then he could have just as easily transmitted it to you and you just showed symptoms first.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Same as Sparkle, married 25 years, husband does not have it. I think it's more likely he got bitten. My children also did not get it congenitally.
Don't feel guilty about it, just get it treated early.
Posted by IckyTicky (Member # 21466) on :
My husband was fine when we got married. He started getting symptoms only after 10 years into our marriage. No tick bite history. He has been dx with Lyme.
My two youngest children never had tick exposure, no known bites. Both have Lyme.
You can absolutely get Lyme congenitally and sexually. If a syphillis spirochette can be sexually transmitted, then so can a Lyme spirochette.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
So, your husband & children don't go into the same environment as you did when you came down with Lyme?
About 40% of people never see a bulls eye rash when they are bitten.
If it were sexually transmitted like syphilis - most of the world would have Lyme by now. It's been around for 40+ years...
Did you have your children when you had Lyme or prior? It's likely that it can be congenital from what I have read but I'm pretty doubtful of sexual transmission.
Not all spirochetes are sexually transmitted.
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
People can carry the disease their entire lives and not be symptomatic. So a spouse can be infected and not be sick.
BTW, Parasites can definitely be sexually transmitted. That is why when one family member is known to be infected, the whole entire family needs to be treated or it keeps being passed back and forth. So why not Lyme & co?
Gael
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
FYI - Leptospirosis is also a spirochete...
This is from Wikipedia -
Leptospirosis is also transmitted by the semen of infected animals.[6] Slaughterhouse workers can contract the disease through contact with infected blood or body fluids.
Humans become infected through contact with water, food, or soil containing urine from these infected animals. This may happen by swallowing contaminated food or water, or through skin contact.
The disease is not known to be spread from person to person and cases of bacterial dissemination in convalescence are extremely rare in humans.
Leptospirosis is common among water-sport enthusiasts in specific areas as prolonged immersion in water is known to promote the entry of the bacteria.
Surfers and whitewater paddlers [7] are at especially high risk in areas that have been shown to contain the bacteria, and can contract the disease by swallowing contaminated water, splashing contaminated water into their eyes or nose, or exposing open wounds to infected water.[8]
Occupations at risk include veterinarians, slaughterhouse workers, farmers, sewer workers, and people working on derelict buildings, rowers are also sometimes known to contact the disease.[5]
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
If someone gets a parasite - it can be spread via other routes than sexually... It would depend on the particular parasite. Little kids don't get lice from a sexual mode of transmission.
Parasites have some similarities to Lyme (Bb) but I believe it's considered a bacteria.
Posted by JunkYardWily (Member # 24271) on :
it gets a little old when people state things as fact when they have no real proof. no one here can for sure say its sexually transmitted or not. i think we, lyme victims, would have more validity if we spoke in theories than facts.
MAYBE its sexually transmitted. MAYBE it was created for biological warfare. MAYBE its the cause of ms, alztimers, als, etc...to keep spouting this stuf as fact makes us look crazy. believe me i have a lot of people thinking im crazy.
i dont have a problem with people stating what they believe but telling people who are new to this that these things are true seems irresponsible.
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
JYW.
Here is a fact for you. My very well known, well respected LLMD found spirochetes in semen he tested. He published his findings.
I can't put his name here, but if you want it you can pm me. There is also the Filarial Worm co-infection that Burgdorfer found in the original ticks he dissected which can be sexually transmitted via the eggs.
Gael
Posted by abigail (Member # 14936) on :
The truth is that Lyme disease has not been proven to be transmitted sexually. I am not saying it is or it is not, they just haven't proven it to be (I'd like to volunteer for the study lol.) I just started reading "The Lyme Disease Solution," and that is what it says in there. Yes, we all can get a little crazy about the facts because there are so many doctors out there willing to ignore them which makes it all the more necessary to become educated. Knowledge is power (it says that in the book too.) Great book by the way. Thanks LymeNet!
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
When it is stated that people with alzheimers, als, ms etc have been misdiagnosed and actually have Lyme disease it's because they have been tested and found to have it along with the co-infections.
The first dx that they received of als, ms etc was incorrect. The point is that this is not a MAYBE, but a fact.
Not trying to be rude, just wanted to give some validity to the many people here on lymenet who are VERY responsible with the info that they post.
Gael
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
We really don't know anything for sure because the tests are not accurate.
Leptospirosis is found in semen & urine of animals but it is not transmitted in that way. If the urine is in water & someone drinks it or it splashes in their eye, gets it in a cut - people can get it.
They claim that it is not known to be passed between humans, though.
We can't rule anything out but if Lyme were sexually transmitted - more people would have it by now.
There are many mysteries about Lyme, co-infections, parasites, etc. I don't think it's necessary for people to be any more paranoid then they have to be. In my case, I never heard of anyone getting ill from contact with me.
I suspect that there may be alot more to this whole Lyme thing anyway... I suspect that we may be infected with alot more pathogens then what is being stated. The medical community just doesn't know about them at this point in time.
We could be ill with other things. We just don't know because we don't have an accurate way to find out what exactly is going on.
Why do people with Morgellon's test positive for Lyme? Why do people who have classic Lyme symptoms test negative? There's alot we don't know.
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Sparkle,
Don't quite understand the statement about "leptosporosis is found in semen & urine of animals but is not transmitted that way." Just doesn't make sense. Was this found in literature that you came across?
FYI,
Morgellons is a name someone made up taken from a disease that was thought to produce fibers. The vast majority of people with this test positive for Lyme.
It just sounds like a co-infection that hasn't been identified. I have always suspected it to be Filarial Worms though.
Gael
Posted by abigail (Member # 14936) on :
According to the book, The Lyme Disease Solution, on page 42 under, Are tick bites the only cause of Lyme disease?, "Animal studies also suggest that Lyme may be transmiitted during sex although this has never been documented scientifically in humans."
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Gael - the quote about leptosporosis is from the Wikipedia source above.
I think the filial worms would stay in the body. I don't think they would exhibit polymer-like strands, plaques, & hexagonal shapes that people are finding.
I don't know why leptosporosis (or Bb) might be found in body fluids & not spread. Either it's mis-information, they just don't know, or it's something completely outside the box. I would think there would be some documented cases by now for Lyme being spread via sexual contact or something... It's a mystery.
My original thought is that the reason people get Lyme is because of the tick saliva. A chemical in tick saliva causes an immune response when people are bit. It makes it easier for the Bb to survive in the body.
Sometimes, I just think this whole Lyme thing is a big red herring for something else that is going on.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I hope this isn't too out there for you but I had to post it. I'm sorry if it's hijacking this thread...
If people find it offensive - the moderators can delete it.
Chemtrail activists collect evidence that the chemtrail spray contains not only germs(7) but conductive metals, blood cells,(8) carbon powders, sedatives, nano-particulates, crystalline substances, alumina particulates, barium powders, and a kind of polyethylene-silicon fiber.(9)
Recently, Dr. Hildegarde Staninger,(10) an industrial toxicologist, and Dr. Mike Castle,(11) a polyethylene expert and chemtrail activist, put their heads together to determine whether the nano fibers growing out of the skin of people who have the fiber disease, Morgellons, and the nano fibers from chemtrails have any relationship to each other.
People with Morgellons have different colors of nano fibers growing out of non-healing sores on their bodies. Chemtrail fallout has similar, many-colored fibers that look very much like the Morgellons fibers. These fibers are on you and in your home. You can find them with a fluorescent, black light. Ultraviolet light makes them glow. Use a magnifying glass, too.
A number of fibers and tissue samples collected from Morgellons victims and samples of chemtrail fibers were sent to four of the best labs in our country: AMDL, Inc., ACS, Inc., MIT, and Lambda Solutions, Inc.. Castle and Staninger asked these labs to identify these fibers. What came back from the labs is startling(12) and is discussed in detail in ``Rense Morgellons Radio Broadcasts, No. 7 and No. 11.''(13) Dr. Staninger has further determined that Texas chemtrail fibers show a match with chemtrail fibers from Italy.(14)
The chemtrail fibers are a kind of infant, ``pre-Morgellons'' fiber. The Morgellons fibers are more developed, but the fibers are related to the type of nanotechnology that assembles nanowires. From online radio host and Peabody award winner, Jeff Rense, we learn that Morgellons is:
A communicable (nanotechnology triggered?) invasion of human tissues in the form of self-assembling, self-replicating visible tubes, colored fibers, wires, arrays with what seem to be sensors or `antennae', and other visible configurations, some carrying what may be genetically-altered and spliced DNA/RNA. These (nano-triggered) `machines' thrive in alkaline ph conditions and use the body's bio-electric energy, its minerals and other unidentified elements for power.
Remember these key terms: ``self-replicate, sensors, alkaline, minerals, and bio-electric energy.'' There is more from the Rense definition of Morgellons:
There is some evidence suggesting these tiny machines possess their own internal `batteries.' They are also believed to possibly be able to receive specific tuned microwave, EMF and ELF signals and information. . . . It is reported by nearly all afflicted that Morgellons nano machines seem to have some kind of hive or `group intelligence.(15)
Can the chemtrail nano fibers breakup to become nano particles? Dr. Staninger seems to think they might.(16) Nano particles can pass through the blood barriers in the lungs, enter the bloodstream, and travel to the brain or other parts of the body. In the online journal ``Nature,'' Jim Giles had this to say:
Nanoparticles - tiny lumps of matter that could one day to be used to build faster computer circuits and improve drug delivery systems - can travel to the brain after being inhaled, according to researchers from the United States.(17)
Dr. Staninger thinks that these nano particles may be able to self-assemble into full-grown nanowires once they are in the brain or other organs.(18) She says we eat this nanotechnology; it is in our food - the plants and animals. She says it copies the DNA of germs or certain other cells that it is in contact with on the inside of our bodies. It makes more germs, more cancers.
One kind of nanowire is implicated in the creation of pseudo-hair and pseudo-skin. One woman with Morgellons has tested positive for the pseudo-hair. These self-replicating proteins even create chimeric forms that look a lot like insects or parasites. Babies are being born with these nano machines in them. This is proof that this nanotechnology can pass through the protective barriers in the body.
Dr. Castle has stated that he believes that at least one to twenty million Americans have these sensors, antennae, wires, and arrays inside of their bodies. Morgellons is spreading at the rate of a 1,000 victims a day. That rate will increase because with each year there will be more and more victims to spread it.
People who do not outwardly exhibit Morgellons symptoms can still have the nano disease on the inside of their bodies. It is thought that the ones with the symptoms are the ones whose bodies are rejecting the fibers. No symptoms? Your body might be adjusting to the infestation.(19)
Posted by glm1111 (Member # 16556) on :
Sparkle,
Thanks for posting this. I am familiar with Dr. Staningers work and definitely am open to "strange" happenings in the Universe including nanotechnology and alien abductions.
As I have stated many times that I have had the different colored fibers exit my scalp and mouth as pictured on lymephotos. I have had this disease for over 30 yrs misdiagnosed and these things just started to exit when I started the salt/c and antiparasitic herbs.
I do think that they definitely could be Filarial Worms. The salt makes them exit because they go into osmotic shock and try to exit anyway they can and through any orifice.
I however have felt for a long time that what's going on has a hive group mentality because when I scratch one scab, my whole body reacts. I also have felt as stated above that they thrive in an alkaline environment.
Really have to stay open to all possibilities. It is interesting tho, that the salt makes them exit. Don't really have the answers, but i am getting better.
Thanks for posting the article. I don't think anything is that farout that we should bury our heads in the sand.
Gael
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Thanks for the confirmation Gael! I don't have any of these symptoms but I have been ill a long time. Standard treatment has not helped & I'm hesitant to keep pushing expensive antibiotics on a whim that they may work.
Without accurate tests as to what is going on - we just don't know. This is why I say to people don't assume anything about these illnesses we are facing. Don't assume that they are sexually transmitted or can be cured with antibiotics.
We just don't know...
Posted by sickpuppy (Member # 23846) on :
Stephanie--I skipped through the posts as they turned into the same old debate about lyme being sexually transmitted. No one can say for sure and I'm among those who still has a healthy husband after 6 years of being with him.
I think maybe it's important to say to you that I hope you don't feel guilty. I'm sorry about it--not easy stuff to start a new marriage with. Best is just to focus on what's going on with him by having him checked out for lyme and co.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
from an old Dr. Klinghardt talk of five years ago
"We are not sure - how ..... that is. In my treatment, we are focusing more and more on immune responses, trying to get the host to be stable, to find a cooperative synergistic way of living with the bugs.
The bugs are not going to go away. Everytime someone sneezes----- we find them on public telephones, swobs of telephones, they could not find a phone without spirochete cysts on it - German study - did the study - going to different telephones, they could culture lyme spirochetes from every public telephone.
What sense does it make trying to kill the bugs and eradicate them completely if you make a phone call tomorrow because your car gets stuck somewhere on the highway and you have to make a phone call! So my treatments go in that direction."
Good luck to you and your husband. We are still dealing with my husband's problems, while I overcame a bad case of Lyme by now several years ago.
Take care.
Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
So sorry to hear this and I agree with what several others say: IF he has Lyme, you will not know for sure whether it has come from you or your shared environment, so don't feel guilty, just save your energies for testing and treating ASAP.
Good luck to you both,
Carry
Posted by jennie46 (Member # 20953) on :
So, after lyme is in remission...should protection still be used?
Posted by onbam (Member # 23758) on :
I'd be curious about what actually being on antibiotics does re this, though
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
re: So, after lyme is in remission...should protection still be used?
If someone had syphilis and they were better - would it still be necessary to use protection?
How about herpes? If it's in remission, does one use protection?
If someone is on a train, plane, bus - do they know if the person sitting next to them has chicken pox or TB, etc...
If you go outside, how do you know if a mosquito isn't going to give you West Nile Virus?
Do we ever go out for a walk in the woods after having Lyme?
I guess it's a personal choice... You just have to weigh the options.
Posted by IckyTicky (Member # 21466) on :
Sparkle... I've had LD for 22 years undiagnosed based on symptoms. But I got bitten 10 years ago and developed a rash that I did not know was an EM rash. This was in Tennessee.
I now live in Texas where I know Lyme does exist, but I've never seen a tick here ever, not on my dogs or on anything. My 17 yr old daughter tested CDC+ for Lyme and grew up in TN and had tick exposure. But my youngest two, before diagnosis, had never been exposed to ticks (meaning, not leaving central Texas..where most people here don't even know what ticks look like) So that my 7 yr old son came back CDC + and my 9 yr old with lyme specific bands a year ago (and having symptoms their whole lives)..our LLMD believes the two of them were born with it.
While my husband could have had tick bite exposure and not known it but..really, what are the odds that we'd both have gotten Lyme, and him only having symptoms after us being married for 10 years?
My identical twin sister has Lyme disease as well. Too bad Lyme doesn't exist in TN or else we wouldn't be crazy
I also tested positive for RMSF, Mycoplasma and the West Nile virus. With Bart. symptoms.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
There are studies (I believe) that Lyme is congenital. I guess I don't focus on it much since I don't have any children. It's really a terrible thing...
It's seems likely to pass it through the placenta. I'm not sure if it can be transmitted via the semen in the case of conception. Good question!
As for it being transmitted to partners via sex... We don't know. There may be alot of factors such as chemicals in tick saliva, immune system of the partners involved, genetics - or whether we actually have Lyme since the tests are not accurate.
It could be a co-infection? We don't know if co-infections are transmitted via sex as far as I know. How do we begin to even weed all of this out if the tests are not accurate?
The only thing I know is that herpes is transmitted through sex &/or kissing but it's a virus. I've read that Gulf War Syndrome can be sexually transmitted. I don't know about mycoplasamas or some of the other nasty things people are being diagnosed with.
Don't have any idea about CFS, Fibromyalgia, Morgellons, parasites, West Nile, etc. I'm sure some parasites are catchy if people live in the same place.
Posted by peacemama (Member # 17666) on :
There are LOTS of studies, and lots of documented cases of congenital lyme. No, there aren't those same studies on sexually transmitted, but no one can prove it can't happen, either.
My husband does have chronic lyme, although he was asymptomatic until his wife and kids got dx, and he started working 5 jobs, sometimes 20 days straight, often double shifts.
So. . that could be a factor. He was well enough to handle it? Maybe. He was infected years before he met me and the stress made it come out? Yes. I don't care anymore. I'm tired of people thinking we are just an unlucky family and that we just all slept one night during our numerous camping trips (lol -- I HATE camping) on a tick nest.
My kids have IDENTICAL western blot bands. They are 8 years apart. Both have the same co-infections.
All we have, until science catches up to us, is our experience.
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