Our LLMD started my son on Zythromax 250 mg and Augmentin 500. Zyth for 3 days then Aug. for 4 days alternating. His symptoms seem to be getting worse. Is this normal? We haven't gotten Western Blot results back yet so I don't even know if he has Lyme, but this is a little scary. What could it mean?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Yes, very normal. It's called a herxheimer reaction. It's pretty much confirmation that he has Lyme if he's having one. Most illnesses only get better .... lyme gets worse first.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- What LIVER SUPPORT is your son taking? That is essential to managing a herx. Liver support can also help protect the ears. Milk Thistle is most common for liver support.
When spirochetes get irritated they emit toxins. And that irritation to them can be nearly anything. That is why lyme patients feel so awful so much of the time. Even a little vibration will irritate spirochetes. Too much heat, too much movement.
Still the herxheimer reaction - from "chemical assault" (even if from a strong herb) - is very real.
The Herxheimer reaction (also known as Jarisch-Herxheimer or Herx) occurs when large quantities of toxins are released into the body as bacteria (typically Spirochetal bacteria) die, due to antibiotic treatment or rapid detoxification.
Typically the death of these bacteria and the associated release of endotoxins occurs faster than the body can remove the toxins via the natural detoxification process performed by the kidneys and liver.
It is manifested by fever, chills, headache, myalgia (muscle pain), and exacerbation of skin lesions.
Duration in syphilis is normally only a few hours but can be much longer, up to months or years, for other diseases, especially Lyme Disease. The intensity of the reaction reflects the intensity of inflammation present.
The Herxheimer reaction has shown an increase in inflammatory cytokines during the period of exacerbation, including tumor necrosis factor alpha, interleukin-6 and interleukin-8.[1][2]
The reaction is also seen in other diseases, such as borreliosis (Lyme disease[3][4] and tick-borne relapsing fever[5]), bartonellosis, brucellosis, typhoid fever, Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, and trichinellosis, Q fever, and cat scratch disease.[6][7]
Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links - including HYPERACUSIS -
Posted by luke'smom (Member # 26341) on :
I was wondering what herx meant? Thank you so much. What can we expect next? His main symptom is tics. They are worse and last night he had a complete meltdown and it was like he couldn't stand to be in his own skin. He just laid on the floor and cried and screamed and squirmed. It was awful. He's done this before, but not for a long time.
Posted by luke'smom (Member # 26341) on :
He is not currently on any liver support. Is Milk Thistle the best to take? He had that meltdown and finally settled down enough to go to bed and today he's fine (so far). Any suggestions on how to help him through this? How long does it take for the Milk Thistle to help?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Try giving him some lemon water. If it helps, then you might put him on an alkalinizing diet.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Is he supplementing with magnesium? That usually helps neurological (or toxin-related) tics.
Magnesium also helps lessen the herx.
I can't comment on what a child's dose for Milk Thistle would be - or if there is a better liver support than that for a child.
I know there have been other threads recently asking about a child's dose, etc.
I have to stop. neighbors are playing with fireworks. I may be off computer for the next few days now.
I will post a full set of complementary links and you may find what you need there. Good luck. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- To compare and contrast the work of authors regarding some of the most common complementary or integrative paths. =========================
It's very important to have this book as a reference tool for self-care and support measures. It answers so many questions in detail that is impossible here on the forum.
A synergistic formula of 6 rainforest botanicals which are traditionally used in South America for syphilis (a type of spirochete bacteria) and other bacterial conditions.* This product was featured in an article by the Health Sciences Institute (see page 4).
Milk Thistle supplement with silymarin, benefits and side effects, use for liver health, the right dosage by Ray Sahelian, M.D.
Abstract: Randomized controlled trial of silymarin treatment in patients with cirrhosis of the liver.
Hepatol. 1989 Jul;9(1):105-13.
. . . Analysis of subgroups indicated that treatment with silymarin in milk thistle was effective in patients with alcoholic cirrhosis and in patients initially rated 'Child A' . . .
The suggested dose of milk thistle is generally 12 to 15 grams of dried herb (200 to 400 mg silymarin) per day or silymarin-phosphatidylcholine complex 100 to 200 mg two times per day.
For liver protection, 120 mg silymarin (about 2 capsules) two times per day. For liver damage from alcohol, drugs, or chemicals, the recommended dosage of silymarin-phosphatidylcholine should be increased from two times per day to three times per day.
[CHILD] Adjust the recommended adult dose to account for the child's weight. Most herbal dosages for adults are calculated on the basis of a 150 lb (70 kg) adult. Therefore, if the child weighs 50 lb (20 to 25 kg), the appropriate dose of milk thistle for this child would be 1/3 of the adult dosage. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- To calm tics - in addition to magnesium whether through supplements of Mag. Glycinate/Citrate or a packet as "Natural Calm" or Epson Salts baths (WARM - not hot) . . . and calcium and maybe also taurine : consider glycerine tinctures of: Milky Oat Seed; Scullcap; and Tulsi (Holy Basil)
. . . Scullcap tincture is an excellent and extremely reliable nervine. It relaxes and strengthens the nervous system in a manner that can be felt within thirty minutes. . . .
. . . It is strong enough that it will calm anxiety in fairly serious situations, . . .
According to King's American Dispensatory, Scullcap "is tonic, nervine and anti-spasmodic,'' and ``it has proved especially useful in chorea, convulsions, tremors, intermittent fever, neuralgia, and many nervous affections.
In all cases of nervous excitability, restlessness, or wakefulness, attending or following acute or chronic disease, from physical or mental overwork, or from other causes, it may be drunk freely with every expectation of beneficial results.
When its soothing effects have ceased, it does not leave an excitable, irritable condition of the system, as is the case with some other nervines" (Felter and Lloyd, 1898).
Dried scullcap, commonly found in over-the-counter herbal preparations, is basically inert, and therefore useless. The related Chinese herb scute root is more anti-inflammatory and less calming in action.
Herb Pharm has both Milky Oat Seed and Skullcap in Glycerin tinctures. I did not see Holy Basil (Tulsi) there.
If you have a Lyme Literate ND (naturopathic doctor) or LL L.Ac. (acupuncturist) near you, that would be best for supplement help if your LLMD is not on that page. Ask your LLMD and also local lyme support group for suggestions.
You can also search your state licensing site for NDs and L. Ac.s and then inquire of each individually if they are familiar - and then - intimately knowledgeable of ILADS.
They need to be ILADS-educated or they simply won't be much good for a lyme patient as lyme just changes so much and there is so much difference from treating a regular patient than in one with lyme - even if just for support measures