Just when I thought she had hit the bottom with all kinds of infections, my wife has just tested CPn positive with a titer @ 1:128 (that should be <1:16) by LabCorp.
I am just starting to learn the importance of this CPn...
Any insides?
Posted by Need Lots of Help (Member # 18603) on :
I have high CPn titers too. Do they show as IGM or IGG? I am not sure how it plays in and with Lyme and Co.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Usually, there are three different tests: IgM, IgG and IgA antibody immunoblots. Usually, the IgA one is what indicates current active chronic Cpn, although all are important and a Cpn-literate MD is best for assessment. ANY high result for any of the tests requires action.
As with lyme, most doctors are not familiar with Cpn.
Some patients who have lyme also have Cpn, and visa versa. Although treatment is similar, neither treatment is a substitute for the other. If both infections are present, an individualized protocol needs to take that into account in order to effectively treat both infections.
Cpn is another chronic stealth infection. Not a spirochete but - in action - similar to lyme as in able to cause nearly the exact symptoms (except there is never a bulls eye rash and it can be acquired in ways lyme is not).
Similar in action to lyme, Cpn can cause what is often misdiagnosed as MS, and other severe neurological conditions.
Treatment is also a combined antibiotic protocol, usually a year or more.
Liver support and protection is a vital element of the treatment protocol.
Porphyria - "Secondary Porphyria" is of major relevance during treatment and steps must be taken to manage that.
There are also various forms of Cpn, with the "elemental body" form similar in some ways to the cyst form of Borrelia.
As with lyme, not all labs perform the correct tests or perform them correctly.
For an extremely professional website full of detailed information, go to:
Cpn Help - start with the notebook tabs at the top of the page -
[ 08-20-2010, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by wtl (Member # 19883) on :
Thanks, Need. It's IGG. IGM is on borderline of 1:10.
Also something called M. pneumoniae IGG is high.
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
You need to treat it even if IGG is positive and you can feel better. Everything is on the cpnhelp.org.
Posted by wtl (Member # 19883) on :
I will look up that site. Thanks.
I haven't seen the word IgA on the report. It says "IgG Ab", is that IgA?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- IgG Ab means IgG antibodies. IgA is a separate test. See the Cpn site for details - the physician's handbook pages.
Timaca has also discussed this in her threads. You can search past threads for "Cpn" and also past threads by searching her posts through the directory, next to the search link above. Here is one of her posts:
====================
In addition to the usual coinfections from ticks (such as babesia, bartonella, ehrlichia, RMSF, etc.), there are some other chronic stealth infections that an excellent LLMD should know about:
. . . in 2008, my ILADS-member LL ND had my Cpn tests run at this lab, so for a least this other chronic stealth infection, they seem to be in the top of the class.
For Cpn, the tests my ND ordered were: IgG Abs; IgM Abs; and IgA Abs.
Specialty Lab tests for various chlamydia strains (with Cpn being the top six on list):
From reading the CPn site, it sounds like, for MS type symptoms, CPn might be the priomary suspect, rather than Bb and co-infections.
Is this what the concensus said?
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- I think it can be either Cpn, Borrelia - both - &/or other stealth infections.
Borrelia clearly can cause lesions in the brain & spinal chord and destruction of myelin sheath around nerves, two key components of a "MS" diagnosis.
I think there are various infections that can do that. -
Posted by wtl (Member # 19883) on :
That makes sense. It's a dangerous world out there.
Posted by sammy (Member # 13952) on :
Hey wtl, I tested positive for CPN and mycoplasma too. CPNhelp.org is a great resource. From what I have read and understand, the med combo's that our doctor uses for Lyme and Bart will hit these infections. He seems to try to treat everything together.
Posted by wtl (Member # 19883) on :
Thank you sammy for stating that. I was just about to ask the question after I read the site and compared to the meds she is taking.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- There are a few seemingly minor, yet key differences between the protocols, though, so be sure to read all through the CpnHelp site - especially regarding liver support and attention to porphyria. It is very specific.
The "Secondary Porphyria" article here is from CpnHelp: -------------------------
PORPHYRIA Thread - along with details about KPU/HPU (Mauve factor) -
Posted by littlebit27 (Member # 24477) on :
I have the same CPN result and my M pneumoniae is high as well.
My (probably) former LLMD's office told me...don't worry about it, we are already taking care of it with the doxy (200 mg a DAY).
When I go to my new LLMD this week I'm going to be asking about it.
Posted by Beachinit (Member # 21040) on :
The lab near me is ALI and they do IgG and IgM. A friend with Lyme test + with a titre 1/1000 on IgG but negative on IgM. Looking at the Cpn website and Dr. David Wheldons published writings those of us taking Doxcycline, clarithro/zithro, and pulsing flagyl would be treating Cpn as well. Supplement information emphasizes things like N-acetyl cysteine which some with Lyme are using for Biofilm disruption and also a pyruvate analog. Dr Wheldon mentions avoiding overwhelming the patient who has a good functional/work capacity with too aggressive treatment, taking a long term approach that allows those who are able to work etc. to continue to do so. There is much to learn at cpnhelp.org's website.
Posted by cleo (Member # 6646) on :
quote:Originally posted by littlebit27: I have the same CPN result and my M pneumoniae is high as well.
My (probably) former LLMD's office told me...don't worry about it, we are already taking care of it with the doxy (200 mg a DAY).
When I go to my new LLMD this week I'm going to be asking about it.
Littlebit your LLMD is wrong. Maybe you should educated him on cpn from the cpn site. It needs triple abx not just doxy. Doxy won't do much of anything. Also I have spoken with Dr. S at Vanderbilt and he told me until you get up to 1000 of flagyl with the other abx you aren't even starting to touch it. The other thing with cpn it is highly contagious between family members. So is mycoplasma.
Posted by kimmie (Member # 25547) on :
I dont know what role CPN plays; however, my LLMD said just about everyone by the age of 10 has been exposed...it is airborne. I did look at CPN protocal and it really overlaps lyme treatment. Meds...amox, zith, flagyl or tini, rifampin. Doses seem to be lower than for Bb. Also, they use NAC to attack the biofilms, I dont know the results of my CPN test, I was not sick before getting bit by that dang tick in November so I know what is causing my symptoms.
I am on flagyl, zith and rocephin. I take high dose NAC for liver support and biofilms so I assume I am targeting CPN too. I know I need long term ABX. Who really knows.
Posted by timaca (Member # 6911) on :
wtl~ I use Focus Diagnostics Lab for Cpn testing. They test for IgG, IgA and IgM. Focus is owned by Quest, so if you talk with your local lab director they can send your blood to Focus (if your doctor orders it to go to Focus).
It is possible to be ill with more than one pathogen. I have IgG and IgA antibody titers to Cpn as high as the lab measures. I was on doxy for 2 years and those titers didn't drop one bit. But, the doctors were also addressing other pathogens (HHV-6, HSV1, EBV and Coxsackie B) so they didn't want me on too many meds at once.
I am improving, so we didn't change anything at my last appt (which was last week). (I am currently on acyclovir and oxymatrine to battle various viruses). If, I have plateaued or gotten worse by my next appt, I will suggest going after the Cpn more aggressively.
Cleo~ Cpn is not highly contagious among family members....at least not in the chronic state. I've been ill for almost 7 years, and the rest of my family is very healthy.
Best, Timaca
Posted by wtl (Member # 19883) on :
timaca - so if my insurance covers Quest, is it reasonable to ask for the blood sample be sent to Focus Diagnostics? I will ask for it.
And good to know that it is highly contagious. I really got enough headaches already - don't we all?
Thanks.
Posted by timaca (Member # 6911) on :
wtl~ The doctor has to order that the blood go to Focus. Then talk with the lab director about sending it there and billing issues.
It is NOT highly contagious in the chronic state. If it were, my whole family would be sick and they are not.