This is topic Success with Zhang? in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

To visit this topic, use this URL:

Posted by lctheobald (Member # 18093) on :
I'm on week 3 of Zhang's lyme herbs. My bladder can't handle allicin, so I'm on the alternate of Coptis.

I feel like crap, tired, muscle pain.

Has anyone had sucess? I've felt worse on things before and never felt better after. Also, with the cost, I want to see if some people have improved

Also, how do I know the herbs are helping me?

Posted by Carol in PA (Member # 5338) on :
What are you doing for liver support?

Milk thistle
Fish oil, pharmaceutical quality, hi EPA

Posted by lctheobald (Member # 18093) on :
All of the above I've been doing. Have before treating lyme. Also do liver cleanses.
Posted by lctheobald (Member # 18093) on :
Anyone else?
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
I did the lyme protocol for five months after using doxy and then ketek for about 5 months and feeling 85% well. I began experiencing more and more symptoms after about 3 months but thought I was herxing so continued. Finally I realized I was sick again and went back on the drugs which weren't helping much.

I found out I also had bartonella and my new symptoms were primarily bart so a LLMD put me on levaquin. I got tendontis after five weeks but otherwise was feeling much better, bart and lyme wise. As I was chemically sensitive I used the HH capsules. I used up to 20 capsules a day, beginning with 12. I also took Cumanda for the bart and some clove bud oil. For lyme I was taking TOA Free Cat's claw and grapefruit seed extract.

I stayed ok for a couple of months and then started back sliding. Again I thought I was herxing but finally realized I was sick again. I have been on abx for a year since then.

The LLMD told me andrographis, teasal root and cat's claw are the best choices for lyme but nothing herbal works against bart.
My lyme might just be suppressed by the bartonella making it less obvious. I am going to another LLMD (two months till my appointment) because the bartonella is just so resistant I can't control it.

Being floxed by levaquin put me in a bad position of not being able to take drugs. I took 5-600 dollars a month of herbs but still relapsed.

Some doctors believe combining herbs with abx strengthens the attack . Others believe you should save the herbs until you are nearly well and then use them when you wean off abx.

One thing I learned is that the very low dose recommended by the makers of these herbs will not cure lyme or any co-infections. You need to take them in extremely high doses to do anything and it becomes unaffordable - then it still won't cure you.
Posted by lctheobald (Member # 18093) on :
nefferdun -

Thanks for your thoughts, what do you consider high doses? Above what Zhang recommends? I'm already herzing on a lot.

I can't be on abx, I get yeast infections, yes, I take medicine, follow the diet, bad infections.

I don't have bartonella, hopefully that will help.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Professional guidance is always best.

Topic: How to find a LL ND (naturopathic doctor), acupuncturist, etc.

Includes how to find an ILADS-educated LL ND, an Acupuncturist, a doctor of Oriental Medicine (O.M.D.), or a doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine (D.Ay.), certified herbalists or nutritionists, etc.

Includes many articles and books on complementary / integrative methods - & RIFE links.
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
I consulted with 2-3 of doctor S' patients and he told them to take 20-25 HH capsules a day for bartonella. In his book he says "extremely high doses" as opposed to the "very low doses" recommended by the makers of the herbs. As three capsules is recommended he is telling his patients to take 6-7 times that much.

I can't say how much you should take for lyme. But like I said the LLMD told me teasal root, andrographis and cat's claw are most effective for lyme. He had a homeopathic partner

I was taking about 1200mg TOA free cat's claw in capsules twice a day. I also took 1000mg grapefruit seed extract twice a day.
I believe that was more helpful than Zhang's herbs (took circulation P and coptis for lyme).

Have you tried nystantin for the yeast? I only have to take it every other day to keep under control.

Dr. K in Seattle is supposed to be the best LLMD with herbs etc.
If you want to go the natural way you should try to consult with someone like him. They will get heavy into detoxing heavy metals (maybe remove the fillings from your teeth), parasites, molds and anything else in your environment, body or mind that could be preventing your recovery.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
Buhner > Zhang imo

I'm having great results with Buhners protocol.

Been on it for about 3 months I think.

And I'm only just now adding cats claw in. Can only help

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3