I can't decide if these deep eye socket headaches are associated with babesia or clenching my jaw at night. Anyone else have this?
Posted by bill+1 (Member # 24446) on :
Hi backintherain ,
Yes I have this . I thought it was part of the lyme symptoms .My headaches move around . sometimes in top of my head ,through from temple to temple , up and down the left side and sometimes behind the eyes and into the sockets .
I don't think i have a clenching problem I think this is just a part of what lyme can do .
I hope this helped you out some , It's all i have . BILL
Posted by 17hens (Member # 23747) on :
My daughter has had this a few times - Bart.
Posted by onbam (Member # 23758) on :
I think cranial neuropathy for me.
Posted by TX Lyme Mom (Member # 3162) on :
Headaches behind the eyes is usually caused by Bartonella. These headaches can also be temporal and stabbing, like ice picks.
Skull-busting pressure headaches, as if your scalp is too tight for your brains, is usually due to Lyme.
I've forgotten what was said about how to recognize Babesia headaches, but I can tell you where to find the information -- if anyone has access to the audio version of the recent ILADS 2010 Conf. DVDs.
Different types of headaches caused by either Borrelia or Bartonella or Babesia was discussed in the talk on pediatric Lyme disease, according to someone who listened to the ILADS Conf. live over the internet and who told me about what was said during that talk.
You can obtain an audio DVD of her talk at the link below:
There are 3 selections which include her talk on pediatric Lyme, which was part of the Plenary Session on Oct. 15. (The best overall value is the 3rd option.)
$20 #28123 DVD Plenary Session; Pediatric Lyme - Ann F. Corson, MD
$99 #28157 DVD Video DVDs: All Recorded Friday, October 15 Plenary Sessions on individual Video DVDs for playback on DVD players and computer with DVD drives $99
$59 #28158 MOV Video DVD-ROM: All Recorded Friday, October 15 Plenary Sessions on Video DVD-ROMs for playback on computers with iTunes, QuickTime, and on video iPods $59
If anyone has access to one of these DVDs, please listen to her talk and report back to us under this topic how to distinguish between the different kinds of headaches whether they are from Lyme, Bartonella or Babesia. She described this in her oral presentation, but the detailed description of various headaches is not included on her set of conference slides.
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
i always thought they were babs cuz they regularly went away for me with artemesia
Posted by ticksickfamily (Member # 22786) on :
Judging from the link, it looks like these kinds of headaches can be associated with babesia. Maybe it's associated with bartonella too, given the experiences some of you have had.
Posted by apljack (Member # 14233) on :
Hard to say which is the cause. I use to have stabbing headaches in my right eye and my neurologist thought it was Temporal arteritis. My temple even hurt. I rarely if ever get them anymore. I think it was lyme & ehrlichia in my case.
Posted by TX Lyme Mom (Member # 3162) on :
quote:Originally posted by backintherain: Judging from the link, it looks like these kinds of headaches can be associated with babesia. Maybe it's associated with bartonella too, given the experiences some of you have had.
That article was taken from an interview last year in which she didn't mention Bartonella within the context of headaches. However, at the recent ILADS Conf. when this same LLMD was giving a formal address during the Plenary session before a large group of doctors, she discussed all three kinds of headaches, according to my daughter who listened to it live over the internet.
That part about the headaches really caught my daughter's attention because she has experienced all three kinds of headaches which were discussed. She was so excited about hearing it that she called me immediately afterwards to report what was said while it was still fresh on her mind because it matched her own experiences so closely.
Therefore, based on what I remember of her report, I would consider Bartonella first whenever there are problems with the eyes, whether headaches behind the eyes or photophobia or anything else to do with the eyes because Bartonella is known to cause problems with the eyes.
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
do we know if bart is transmitted sexually? babs? other coinfections?
Posted by TX Lyme Mom (Member # 3162) on :
Ipkayak, I don't recall reading anything about the sexual transmission of Bartonella. I say that having read a lot of articles about Bart, but I wouldn't swear to it as a fact because I might have missed seeing it or failed to remember it.
The best person to ask about Bartonella is FuzzySlippers because s/he(?) has done a fantastic job of creating the "Bartonella Information Thread," a collection medical journal articles and news articles about Bart at the link below:
Among those articles, you will learn that Bartonella can be transmitted by scratches and bites from infected animals and from flea feces infected with Bart.
Many LLMDs also believe that the strain of Bart transmitted by ticks causes worse symptoms and is harder to treat than the ordinary strain of Bart (B. henselae) known as "cat scratch disease" which is transmitted by cat (or dog) fleas and flea feces.
According to information presented at the recent ILADS 2010 Conference by Dr. H. who spoke on the treatment of co-infections, the current antibiotic combos being used to treat Bartonella are: 1. Septra (or Bactrim or generic TMZ/TCM - different names for the same thing) 2. Quinolone + Rifampin 3. Septra + Quinolone
For anyone who cannot take any of those antibiotics, then you might want to consider the Marshall Protocol (MP) which was created to deal with sarcoidosis, a granulomatous disease suspected to be caused by an intracellular bacterium, because Bartonella fits both of those two characteristics. Our daughter had good success with the MP for Bartonella after almost 10 years of antibiotics for Lyme and co-infections. She has remained symptom free and antibiotic free for almost two years now after discontinuing the MP in Dec., 2008, following several decades of undiagnosed Lyme plus almost an entire decade of antibiotic therapy for Lyme, including nearly 18 mos. of IV antibiotics.
However, this recommendation in favor of the MP would be a "last resort" option only for those who have failed all other therapies or who cannot tolerate those antibiotics required to treat Bartonella because the MP is an extremely difficult and complicated protocol to follow, not to mention being tediously slow. Furthermore, I believe that the reason for our daughter's excellent success with the MP was that Bartonella was responsibile for her remaining symptoms and that her Lyme and Babesia had already been adequately treated, IMHO.
For more information about the MP, here are a couple of helpful links:
I recommend highly the expertise of the professional nursing staff at the second link above. One of the RNs at the CIR website is a recovered Lyme patient who had had really bad MCS for many years and who had failed other Lyme antibiotic protocols under the care of a very popular ILADS LLMD.
Posted by TX Lyme Mom (Member # 3162) on :
deleted - double post
LymeNet was "acting funny" when I first tried to post, so after 10 min. I clicked "post reply" again, only to find out to my surprise that the message above had already been posted successfully.