Spoke with one of the top LLND's in the country this afternoon. He frequently speaks at ILADS conferences with Dr B, Dr H, and a few others.
He is not my LLND and does not treat me. But we did an hour of good Lyme/Bart discussions. I picked his brain for us! hehe
Random Details from conversation
Parasites - He dosn't use abx's on Lyme/Co if he doesn't have to but says parasites seem to be the exception for him. Often he will use pharmaceuticals to go after parasites (I'm assuming alinia, etc)
- Salt/C - Increase in 1g dosages (slow) Salt does NOT kill Lyme at low dosages.
In his experience it causes osmotic shock and kills bacteria at 12g minimum.
He says it will kill parasites at as little as 3g (and that rumblings, grumblings, growling sounds in the stomach are an indication of this)
- Says "they" believe if you have genetic predisposition to high blood pressure , this protocol is not for you. If you don't have issues with bp or even have low bp - he's never seen a problem with it.
- When I said the word kidneys his response was "Heavy Metals."
Parasites die and release tons of gunk into the system. Most important is metals. An overabundance of them will cause extreme stress on kidneys.
He said Pekana's Renelix is the absolute best detox agent for the kidneys.
(Side note: He said if you have a bad reaction to Pekana's "big three" detox kit - it's from apo-hepat (the liver formula) It's a "hot" formula and will irritate an already inflamed liver.
So if you have Bart(known for LIVING in the liver) be cautious with Apo-Hepat and use Sydetox instead.
Heavy Metals -Modifilan (1-12 capsules) He recommends 4 capsules taken on empty stomach in A.M. He considers it "aggressive metal detox" when you up that to twice a day. Start "stirring thigns up."
-Chlorella (4-30 tbl) Take it between 12-1 in afternoon. This is when the body focuses on the gallbladder (I think GiGi posted a good chart indicating the body's daily functions and the times it does so - refer to that)
Start with 4 tbl/day. Every other day increase by 4. Work up to 30 tbl before lunch!
If you get sick from any of the dosages (4, 8, 12...) go back down to the previous dose and stay on it for a week before attempting to increase again.
Co-infections ("peeling an onion") -Says if immune system is very responsive the picture is clear & becomes easier to treat. (He uses "challenges" or "pushes" to get an idea of the picture. This can be done no matter what the treatment.
If you start Babs treatment and aren't getting much of a reaction/irritation of symptoms from treatmet, babs might not be ON TOP.
A good LLMD will review your symptomatic picture and come to an educated conclusion. **I'm a clear Bart ON TOP with Lyme underneath.
Potentially Babs - but he said I'll find out after knocking back Bart.
-So think "peeling onion." When you treat and knock one down, the other will surface.
-When he gets new patients who've been on abx's for Lyme for extended period of time, he says he goes after co-infections and doesn't worry about Lyme.
Says Lyme is so slow reproducing that in his experience you usually have about a year before Lyme will rear it's head again and cause major issues. So in the meantime go after co-infections hard!
Bartonella -weekly cycles -is drawn to liver (elevated enzymes + inflammation) -Rashes, frontal headaches, neuro symptoms, both knees, neck pain
-Least conspicuous infection. Will surface without thinking about it. Usually clear if bartonella is on the surface for YOU.
Babs -We didn't talk much about babs -He has an E-file he's going to send me and I'll try to post some details from it (It just details babs symptoms and how they arise when going after Bart/Lyme)
Erlichiosis -Doesn't worry as much about it. Finds it to be weak and usually knocked out by Doxycycline. (fevers, throwing up - symptoms)
Byron White Formulas (A-Bart, A-Babs, A-L Complex) -Challenges his patients (1-5 drops twice/day at beginning) If younger, try to go up 3 drops every other day.
When you hit an irritating dosage (with clear irritation of symptoms) STOP at that manageable dosage(or even back down) and wait 3-4 days and let it clear. If it clears and you don't get worse - he's identified the target co-infection and will proceed in treating.
At that point, increase by 1 drop/day always stopping at clear herxes for 3-4 days.
Work up to 25 drops twice/day. (One patient of his took 6 months to get to 15 drops twice/day) But typically if young, healthier, in decent condition he expects most to move up fairly quickly with good responses.
Once that's all done successfully - he'll bring that dosage down to a maintenance dose and then begin next infection treatment.
Same protocol.
-Byron White formulas cross the blood brain barrier. When asked he didn't hesitate, "yes!"
-He's used these successfully on 100's of patients
-On extreme cases (older people, barely walk, feeble) he will use abx's (even IV)
PS: I think these docs (even lyme literate) are surprised to hear how knowledgeable we are on these subjects.
This board has been a blessing for me.
Djf summed it up perfect in an old post of his. (I'm paraphrasing) "Lyme ain't as tough to treat when you've got the knowledge to do so. But it's sifting through the research and gaining the knowledge that's the hard part"
Happy Hunting Posted by sammy (Member # 13952) on :
Thank you for sharing this information with us canefan17.
So he thinks that Bartonella and Babesia can be cleared with the Byron White formulas? That would be good. Did he recommend the parasite and detox treatments first? Or are those only needed if we have symptoms?
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
He didn't go into specifics. I'm sure he would if someone were a patient of his.
I simply wanted to know what was working in his practice and why/how.
I think he's having his most success with A-Bart. He spoke on it and many LLMD's across the country are using them (some top names too)
It is a bit of an Art using Byron formulas. Or at least using them in the manner he explains.
He has tele-classes available online (for practitioners to listen and call in)
Scroll down to: Byron White Formulas Case Studies Any of those
Posted by 5vforest (Member # 29365) on :
Interesting info, but I personally wouldn't trust him for treatment if he wouldn't use antibiotics.
Posted by asummers (Member # 18068) on :
Thanks for taking the time to post this info -- very interesting read.
Posted by canefan17 (Member # 22149) on :
5v,
Where does it say he wouldn't use abx's? Re-read it
Posted by lululymemom (Member # 26405) on :
(Side note: He said if you have a bad reaction to Pekana's "big three" detox kit - it's from apo-hepat (the liver formula) It's a "hot" formula and will irritate an already inflamed liver.
So if you have Bart(known for LIVING in the liver) be cautious with Apo-Hepat and use Sydetox instead.
If this is true, then we shouldn't be using the Pekana kit for liver support. I have never heard that Bart lives in the liver. We always use it for elevated enzymes. This is definitely something we will need to look into.
Good information.
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
Excellent info. Thank you so much for posting!
tickbattler
Posted by seekhelp (Member # 15067) on :
Thanks for posting. Very interesting.
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
Yes, indeed, thanks!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Canefan, thanks for sharing details.
For others who may want to consult with a LL ND: ---------------------
Topic: How to find an ILADS-educated lyme literate (LL) professionals in these areas:
Naturopathic doctor (ND); Acupuncturist (L. Ac.), a doctor of Oriental Medicine (O.M.D.), or a doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine (D.Ay.), certified herbalists or nutritionists, . . .
. . . Holistic MDs, and also Doctors of Osteopath (DO) and Doctors of Chiropractic (DC), etc.
�� Includes many professional links, articles and books on complementary / integrative methods - & RIFE links -- all by LL authors.
Also included are basic links explaining the principles of herbal medicine.
BODY WORK considerations (geared to lyme patients) are discussed; with links. -
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