I have a family member in hospital now with white matter lesions and MS symptons, There still running tests on him but the neurologist is leaning really hard on it being Multiple sclerosis. I keep telling my family that it could be lyme and to look into it but no one is taken me seriously, trying to find some good articles explains the MS and lyme connection.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Past threads in the archives can be found through the search link:
. . . Of the infectious diseases that are most commonly mistaken for MS the clinician should take into account Whipple's disease, Lyme disease, Syphilis, HIV/AIDS, Brucellosis, HHV-6 infection, Hepatitis C, Mycoplasma and Creutzfeld-Jacob disease, among others.
Cat scratch disease caused by Bartonella hensellae, Mediterranean spotted fever caused by Riketssia connore and Leptospirosis caused by different Leptospira serovars rarely cause focal neurological deficit and demyelinating MRI changes similar to MS.
When atypical clinical and neuroimaging presentations are present, serology on rare infectious diseases that may mimic MS may be warranted. This review will focus on the infectious diseases mimicking MS with presentation of rare illustrative cases.
================================
Chlamydia Pneumonia is also frequently ignored and misdiagnosed as MS
EMPIRICAL ANTIBACTERIAL TREATMENT OF INFECTION WITH CHLAMYDOPHILA PNEUMONIAE IN MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS
- by David Wheldon MB FRCPath
Excerpt:
After much controversy a considerable body of evidence now demonstrates a firm causal connection between chronic infection with the primary respiratory pathogen Chlamydophila (Chlamydia) pneumoniae and at least some variants of the neurological disease Multiple Sclerosis.
These web-pages review the evidence. References are cited. Treatment of chronic infection with this organism is regarded as highly problematic. Some authorities claim that total eradication is not possible.
These pages suggest a possible schedule of treatment which may be expected to address all phases of the organism's life-cycle. . . .
The objectives of this article are to cover issues related to Lyme disease that are not even-handedly addressed in the current literature. It will:
Present a practical approach for making the diagnosis of neuroborreliosis,
Explore the other side of the post-Lyme syndrome (i.e. the likelihood of chronic ongoing infection),
Discuss the relationship between MS and Lyme,
Critique the current regimens published for treating neuroborreliosis . . . . -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- In addition to the usual coinfections from ticks (such as babesia, bartonella, ehrlichia, RMSF, etc.), there are some other chronic stealth infections that an excellent LLMD should know about:
I would encourage EVERY person who has received a lyme diagnosis to get the following tests.
- at link. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Two things to keep in mind. ---------------------------
� MS patients are often treated with STEROIDS. This can be a disaster for lyme patients. Steroids should not be used if there is a chance for any infection.
��Often, a lumbar puncture (spinal tap) is used to test for lyme in the CSF (cerebral spinal fluid). This is NOT a good test for lyme.
Diagnostic Hints and Treatment Guidelines for Lyme and Other Tick Borne Illnesses
16th edition, Copyright October, 2008
Joseph J. Burrascano
Excerpts:
P. 4:
. . . More severe illness also results from other causes of weakened defenses, such as from severe stress, immunosuppressant medications, and severe intercurrent illnesses.
This is why steroids and other immunosuppressive medications are absolutely contraindicated in Lyme. This also includes intraarticular steroids. . . .
From page 12:
. . . More evidence has accumulated indicating the severe detrimental effects of the concurrent use of immunosuppressants including steroids in the patient with active B. burgdorferi infection.
Never give steroids or any other immunosuppressant to any patient who may even remotely be suffering from Lyme, or serious, permanent damage may result, especially if given for anything greater than a short course.
If immunosuppressive therapy is absolutely necessary, then potent antibiotic treatment should begin at least 48 hours prior to the immunosuppressants. . . .
Page 20:
. . . and absolutely no immunosuppressants, even local doses of steroids (intra-articular injections, for example). . . .
. . . "Steroid Disaster" is a term coined by the pioneer of Lyme Treatment . . .
Corticosteroids are immune suppressants, the last thing a Lyme patient needs is to lower immunity.
Can you imagine, your body trying hard to fight off the spirochete bacteria and suddenly and immunosuppressants is introduced, "freezing" your immune system, rendering it unable to battle, giving great advantage now to the Lyme bacteria to spread and go wherever it wants .
Corticosteroids can last in the body for months, usually around 6 months. In many bacterial infections such as LD, damage can be done.
Many Lyme patients (such as myself) triggered LD with cortisone shots, pills, inhalers, etc. I can tell you, it is a nightmare I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
It is imperative to NEVER take corticosteroid for pain if you know you have a bacterial infection.
Some bacterial infections are so severe that a shot of cortisone could kill you, although that would be unlikely with Lyme, but rule of thumb, bacterial infections and immunosuppressants do not mix! . . .
. . . Dr. Burrascano makes it clear in his treatment guidelines that steroid treatment is detrimental, these are excerpts from his guidelines:
"More evidence has accumulated indicating the severe detrimental effects of the concurrent use of immunosuppressants including steroids in the patient with active B. burgdorferi infection.
Never give steroids or any other immunosuppressant to any patient who may even remotely be suffering from Lyme, or serious, permanent damage may result, especially if given for anything greater than a short course.
If immunosuppressive therapy is absolutely necessary, then potent antibiotic treatment should begin at least 48 hours prior to the immunosuppressants.
The severity of the clinical illness is directly proportional to the spirochete load, the duration of infection, and the presence of co-infections. These factors also are proportional to the intensity and duration of treatment needed for recovery.
More severe illness also results from other causes of weakened defenses, such as from severe stress, immunosuppressants medications, and severe intercurrent illnesses.
This is why steroids and other immunosuppressants medications are absolutely contraindicated in Lyme. This also includes intra-articular steroids."
An easy explanation. Your immune system are the "soldiers" of your body constantly standing by to attack any foreign invader.
When an immunosuppressant is used, it is like killing off or knocking out most of your "soldiers", now your body is open to all foreign invasion and while your immune system is knocked out, those invaders can go anywhere, your heart, liver, brain - everywhere.
October 27, 2010 -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- I don't know what state your relative is in but I sure hope it is a state that has many knowledgeable LLMDs and also allows LLMDs to practice.
If you have a copy of the documentary, "Under Our Skin" you can send by priority mail to them to view ASAP. I think that will speak louder than any relative ever can.
" . . .To treat Lyme disease for a comparable number of life cycles, treatment would need to last 30 weeks. . . ."
� . . . Patients with Lyme disease almost always have negative results on standard blood screening tests and have no remarkable findings on physical exam, so they are frequently referred to mental-health professionals for evaluation.
". . . If all cases were detected and treated in the early stages of Lyme disease, the debate over the diagnosis and treatment of late-stage disease would not be an issue, and devastating rheumatologic, neurologic, and cardiac complications could be avoided . . ."
The International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society (ILADS) provides a forum for health science professionals to share their wealth of knowledge regarding the management of Lyme and associated diseases.
Chronic Lyme Disease: Connection to MS- Facts behind the controversy http://www.newhaven.edu/unh/lyme/ Posted by SpottedRocky (Member # 11970) on :
Thx Keebler and lymetoo that helps out, He's in pittsburgh hospital right now, i'm not sure if they gave him any steriods or not but he is getting worse today and they did give him a spinal tap. i know when i was hospitalized they gave me two shots of a powerful steriod and within a matter of hours i started having problems with the cordination in my legs. One of the problems i'm having is explaining to my family why the doctors aren't looking at lyme disease so that is why they not taking me seriously, They leaving it all on the doc to make the diagnoses and if they do daignose him with MS, i don't think i could sway them on my own to atleast to take a look at lyme or see a lyme specialist.
Posted by DeniseNM (Member # 11182) on :
They told me in 1998 that I had MS. Turns out I do have MS, CAUSED BY LYME DISEASE.
Some people on this site will tell you the MS is Lyme. I'd have to agree.
Take a look at burrascano's guidelines (I'm sure Lymetoo or Keebler posted a link). Maybe you can get his docs to take a look at it?
My thoughts are with your family member, this is scary stuff.
Posted by mattnapa (Member # 26414) on :
I could not find anything on the search in terms of the diagnosis for Ms. My impression is that it is pretty sketchy. I have read that a lot of folks with lesions do not have symptoms, and that a lot of folks with. i know there is a second diagnostic that test's muscle response in some manner that I am not clear about, but I did not get the impression that it was especially determinitive in diagnosing either. The other part is of course is how much hope is there in conventional MS treatment? It seems pretty bleak. And since much of the lyme treatment suggestions here are based on bringing the body's natural systems back into balnace, I would suggest this as at least an alternative to conventional M.S treatment. Dr Fredrick Klenner, who was a famous early alternative medicine practitioner, has an alternative natural protocl for M.S but I do not see it discussed much here.
Perhaps I have oversteped my bounds in discussing my impression of the MS diagnostic process in conventional medicine, but it was my amateur impression. If others know otherwise, I wil certainly defer. I do now however know that the diagnosis for LPR (an acid reflux disease) is not very accurate at all and really based on guesswork, so I am begging to question mainstream diagnosis more than I used to
Posted by amberini (Member # 21281) on :
Have you read about Low Dose Naltrexone as a treatment for MS? I agree with you about the side effects of the medications used to treat it. LDN doesn't have any, not counting the sleep issue to begin with.
One study found people with MS who began taking LDN developed no new lesions. I think that's a positive.
The yahoo LDN group has many with MS and good reports. Of course, not every doctor will prescribe this but once again, the Yahoo group can help you find a prescribing doctor in your area. I hope you can find your answers, never give up looking. Here is the link. http://www.lowdosenaltrexone.org/ Posted by momofthree (Member # 19490) on :
Check for articles by Tom Grier. He has done a lot of research on this...
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
matt .. The diagnosis of MS is one of elimination. There is NO DEFINITIVE TEST to prove one has MS.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- I can't read the solid text notes above - but I do echo LymeToo's latest note and amberini's LND suggestion.
As LymeToo states: "There is NO DEFINITIVE TEST to prove one has MS."
MS is just as much of an umbrella term as is fibromyalgia.
Demyelination of nerves and white matter lesions are two key indicators. But they also go with lyme and with some other stealth infections.
Muscle weakness and other neurological and optical symptoms are also key to an MS dx. And, yet, they are also key with lyme and some other stealth infections. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Plasma Platelet-derived Microparticles in Patients with Connective Tissue Diseases.
J Rheumatol. 2011 Jan 15. -
Posted by SpottedRocky (Member # 11970) on :
thx everyone for the links, They just diagnosed him with a low form of MS and started him on steriods. Not good, i'm gonna send him some of the links above hopefully he will take it seriously and go see a LLMD before this stuff does any major damage.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Big Sigh. Big, big sigh.
Maybe you can just send the link to this thread and he can clink on all the other links himself.
It's very nice that you care so much to help. I do hope your efforts are received in the manner intended, of caring & sharing what could be key information.
I was never able to convince a long time friend of mine to get good testing for lyme or other stealth infections that are often linked to MS (like Cpn). Now that friend is totally paralyzed at 60, unable to barely even talk - with steroids having been the mainstay of "treatment" options.
A few rounds of IV antibiotics now and then for lung or bladder infections seem to be nearly miraculous but then, when stopped, fast decline.
Now, lyme may not be the underlying cause, but since it very well could be, it's just so sad to not even be considered with the very best diagnostics available (with both lab and clinical evaluation by experts).
The same for the other stealth infections.
Doubly sad that steroids can make any infection blossom and then be much harder to treat.
Good luck to you and your entire family. May knowledge light many candles. -
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
MS is very often cpn. Please post at cpnhelp.org there are many MS patients and getting better. Cpn has a blood test, so you can eliminate it. Read about parasites as well.
Posted by dmc (Member # 5102) on :
google ccsvi
Chronic CerebralSpinal Venous Insufficency. CCSVI
It is putting the "MS world" on it's ear. Lesions, they are finding is buildup deposits of iron/toxins in brain.
Doesn't matter what the cause, even if Lyme, the brain's blood not "draining properly".
Youtube it too. You'll see videos of before/afters. and seminars of doctors describing procedure.
I had it done in November. There were 3 stenosis (narrowing). One in Left jugular, one in the right, & in the azygous vein (in chest).
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by SpottedRocky: [QB] thx everyone for the links, They just diagnosed him with a low form of MS and started him on steriods. Not good, i'm gonna send him some of the links above hopefully he will take it seriously and go see a LLMD before this stuff does any major damage. ]
Now the steroids will make it harder for a lyme test to show positive and it will make the Lyme go deeper if that is what he really has. UGH!
Not to mention that he will feel worse.
dmc's info should also be reviewed. Big news in the world of MS.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
PS.. Why do they hand out steroids like it's candy, but to give someone antibiotics takes an act of Congress?
steroids have a lot of really serious side effects .. esp long term
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