Below are pics of what Lyme (or whatever bug) did to my gums and teeth. Also, a picture of what I believe to be a bartonella rash.
PICTURE 1:
SEVERE recession of gum tissue around my lower teeth, mostly in the front. Also, note the dark brown-grey stains between the affected teeth. These stains have already appeared within a day or two of my professional dental cleanings, so there's no way they're from my smoking. I don't smoke THAT much in 2 days, and the only smoking-related staining I ever had to my teeth before this was a slight all-over yellowing...nothing major like this.
Also, note that my teeth are sawed flat from the constant clenching and grinding.
This picture isn't too good because of the glare from the sun, but basically my gums dissolved around that one tooth. This area actually seems to have healed some, but obviously, the gum hasn't regrown any.
Not a very good picture, but if you look closely, you can vaguely make out a 'paw print' shape to the rash running parallel to my shorts. This is not a stretch mark either. It appeared when my weight was dropping into 'anorexic range' and remains today.
Also, couldn't help but notice while googling pics of gum tissue overgrowth (an unwanted side effect of some seizure meds) that the gums affected seem to be the same ones where I'm LOSING gum tissue and feel this constant 'pulling' or 'tugging' sensation. Is it electricity I'm feeling in my lower gums and lower jaw? And can an underlying seizure disorder cause gum tissue loss? I DID have a couple of absence or partial seizures back in December (while driving) and am being evaluated...probably have been having them for a long while...
Posted by hadlyme (Member # 6364) on :
Periodontal disease can happen in people that don't have lyme or have lyme. It can happen in people that do not smoke also.
Gum disease/periodontal disease will do all the above things to your teeth and gum tissue.
Sometimes this is a trait that run in some families. Usually if you have gum disease you will not have many decay issues for some strange reason.
Doesn't have to be part of lyme & company.
Costly, but 3 month visits to your dentist to stay on top of it, and use different products to slow the bacteria that causes it.
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
I have not seen the pictures but Co Enzyme Q10 is very good for gums. You can't take it with Mepron. Gum disease is often connected to heart disease so beware.
There are over 200 carcinogens and metals etc in tobacco. Your body needs all the help it can get. How can your teeth and gums stay healthy when you are attacking it with heavy metals and poisons as well as the lyme?
Lyme likes collagen which is in your skin, eyes, joints etc. Try taking hyaluronic acid to replace the collagen being lost to the disease.
Posted by hadlyme (Member # 6364) on :
I just noticed you said you do smoke.
Smoking is the worse thing for Perio disease.
You'll lose all your teeth if you keep it up. Not joking... wish I was.
Posted by BoxerMom (Member # 25251) on :
I had receeding gums in 1/2 of my mouth for many, many years. All of my teeth to the right of the midline had inflamed, receding gums. All the teeth to the left had perfect, pink, quarter moon gums.
My dentist always commented on it.
After a year of Bartonella treatment, the right side cleared up. Now I have a mouth full of perfect pink gums. Yaaaaay!
If you look up Bartonellosis in cats, you'll find that swollen gums are part of the differential for Bart. I had cat gums. Fabulous.
Also, the dental spirochete, T.denticola causes periodontal disease. It is a common mouth commensal, that we often have in abundance because of our weakened immune systems.
Keep treating the Lyme, and take good care of your mouth.
As for the clenching/grinding, that is also common in TBD, especially Bartonella. The antidepressant Buspar (Buspirone generic), taken at bedtime, has stopped or reduced the grinding for many Lyme patients.
I didn't look at the rash pics. Most of us get rashes with Bart.
Posted by elizzza811 (Member # 24713) on :
Thanks for your replies!
This is a problem unrelated to my smoking habit, so I'd appreciate not going there. And I know this is a problem unrelated to my smoking habit because not only are my gums dissolving on me, but the affected teeth often feel slightly 'wiggly'...and this very thing (wiggly teeth) used to happen to me as a teenager, too, long before I ever picked up a smoke. I used to drink milk and brush my teeth extra well when this would happen. So it's some bug, and I AM positive for bart.
But there's a dental spirochete, too? It must be a contageous one then because my mom lost all of her teeth by my age. In fact, she used to blame it on me because apparently my head flew back and hit her in the teeth once when I was sitting in her lap in a cab. I never really bought it though that I loosened every tooth in her mouth, including her molars.
I don't really believe in genetic periodontal disease...if anything it's a bug that is transmitted between family members.
It's scary though...I have no dental insurance whatsoever and pay for my twice-a-year scalings out of pocket, and I have to say I'm a little vain about my teeth to have to worry about losing them this young. And yes, I only have two fillings in my entire mouth, and I'm 45. Great teeth, but lousy gums...
Posted by Kerryblue (Member # 4077) on :
Hi, Almost every Lymie I know is going through severe to moocho dental work. I am spending fortune on my teeth, not periodontal, but teeth problem. Everyone spending & going through flippen fortune. For anyone I found great plan saved me 400.00 on my 1st surg. 2 days after bought it. Through Aetna I think, They take 1/4 to 50% off. Least helps anyone interested I will find info for you. Found on net,no pre-existing cond. clause. Unless they are working on tooth right then. Only 2 days into saved 400.00. Only thing surg. did not work cost me 1200.00 to have pulled another 100.00 to pull then minus Ins. WOW, those dentist clean up. Little pun..ha
Posted by elizzza811 (Member # 24713) on :
Thanks. If you can find the info, I'd love to look at it. How much does it cost to get teeth pulled anyway? And do they always remove the roots, too? Or is that extra? Sorry, I don't know a whole lot about teeth.
The worst part about my gum situation is that when I first noticed they were swollen, I tried flossing, and holy cow, the floss cut right through the gums like butter, making them recede even more...I had to stop. It surprised me because I'd never had that happen before. Then food started to stick to the exposed tooth, and things just got worse and worse.
What I don't understand though is that some days (most) tartar and junk seems to build up like crazy. And not just by the gumline...I can feel it everywhere.
But then there are a couple of days here and there where the coating seems to just dissolve on it's own and my teeth feel like they are improving? Today is NOT one of those days! My gums are hurting today!
Posted by BoxerMom (Member # 25251) on :
I had the flossing thing when my gums were inflamed. Flossing created huge pockets between my teeth and gums, exacerbating the whole problem.
My dentist accused my of "overzealous flossing."
She told me to cut back to every other day, and be very, very gentle.
Now that my gums have healed, it is not a problem.
There is a Fibro book that talks about the excessive tartar buildup. I think it's What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Fibromyalgia. It's the St. Amand book. He talks about excessive phosphate in the blood creating the pain of Fibromyalgia. He's the guaifenesin guy.
It's an older book. The library might have it. Certainly Amazon.
I think your dental problems will improve with treatment.
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
elizza,
Sorry you are dealing with this. What are you taking for bart right now? My family of 5 has had success eradicating bart with Samento and Cumanda.
tickbattler
Posted by rks (Member # 24316) on :
Yes, I'm a broken record when I hear people talking about dental problems.
Best thing I ever did for it besides having more cleanings is pulling oil. Lyme, bart, and babs treatment has worked as well I'm sure, but I noticed a drastic improvement after pulling oil and before lyme treatment.
I and others have posted before on pulling oil, so if interested do a search and read about it here.
Here is an outside link with more information on it too:
I'll have to look into oil pulling...that's one thing I haven't tried. Samento and Cumanda, too. Don't I need to use a TOA-free kind though?
I'm glad people believe me though that flossing actually made my gum problem worse.
One thing I've noticed...two actually...is that sometimes glucosamine chondroitin seems to tighten up my wiggly teeth. And that I swear my teeth sometimes feel...?...decalcified?...though taking calcium rarely seems to help, and I am unable to tolerate magnesium for some reason? I have magnesium maleate...that's the kind I was taking. Why do my gum problems worsen when I take magnesium? Doesn't Lyme feed on magnesium? I also experience a worsening of my symptoms when I take B Complex?
I did order a special kind of tooth powder though, just to see if it helps any - one I've used before in the past with some improvement. It's called Ipsab Powder. So we'll see. In the past when I've had that gross coating on my teeth, even following brushing, Ipsab used to help some.
Thanks for all your help though!
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
Samento from Nutramedix is TOA free. You can order them both right off the website.
tickbattler
Posted by hadlyme (Member # 6364) on :
Your teeth are 'wiggly' because you're losing bone from the perio disease. This is typical. Bone decreases and then your teeth look longer because you can see part of the roots now. They aren't in as much bone, so they will get loose.
Perio disease can be reversed. Cleaning the buildup on the root surfaces with flossing (like you're doing) and a sonic type toothbrush (is the best) and then routine 3 month cleanings.
If you can't get it reversed, you will keep losing bone and the teeth will fall out.
Bacteria.... and maybe in your case from lyme and co are making this a worse case for you.
Truely, keeping each root surface (that is now exposed from bone loss) clean as can be, flossing even though it's bleeding, rinsing with peridex (from dentist) and brush like a madperson will all be great things you can do for this situation.
Best wishes....
Posted by jpsmom (Member # 23895) on :
I had someone tell me, when I had bleeding gums to use a probiotic capsule open & keep in mouth for a few minutes, it did help stop my gums from bleeding & have heard oilpulling is good for the gumline.
Posted by elizzza811 (Member # 24713) on :
Thanks for all your suggestions. I'm not having a very good day though...think I had another seizure last night.
Posted by mojo (Member # 9309) on :
quote:Originally posted by hadlyme: Usually if you have gum disease you will not have many decay issues for some strange reason.
[/QB]
My late father lost all of his teeth to gum disease and he didn't have a single cavity!
Posted by elizzza811 (Member # 24713) on :
I have 2 (possibly 3?) fillings in my entire mouth, all of which I'd gotten before the age of maybe 19.
Posted by daisyrlb (Member # 15686) on :
80% of the immune system is actually in the gut and it starts in the mouth! So doing what we can to keep bacteria down in the mouth is super important.
A few months ago, my husband went to a dentist is Florida (where our son lives). We specifically timed our visit so hubby could get in and see this dentist..because he's just THAT good! And we were not disappointed.
One of the things we learned...is what we could do to have healthy gums. There are only three ingredients (Baking Soda, Salt, and Hydrogen Peroxie (or Colloidal Silver if a person has amalgam mercury fillings).
I do this "brushing" everyday.
In Dr. Behm's own words:
"The healthy gum Recipe creates an environment around your teeth in which harmful bacteria can't live...The Recipe neutralizes the acid environment......and bacteria can't stand oxygen."
Following is a link to the webpage on Dr. Behm's site to what he calls "The Secret". I'm not sure why he called it that.
Anything I can do to help my immune system become stronger, is something I want to do. This just made sense to me. And I believe it's helping.
Posted by hadlyme (Member # 6364) on :
Great suggestion on Dr. Behm's site. He's right on with what he is saying.
One can buy the Butler GUM toothbrush and rubber tip that he's talking about at any Walmart/CVS/Target/Walgreens stores. Soft compact type tbrush.
Posted by daisyrlb (Member # 15686) on :
hadlyme...love your login name!
Glad you shared that.
Yeah, what Dr. Behm says is so simple to do, too, and not expensive!