A few months ago my doctor had me tested for Lyme at Quest Diagnostics (Not sure if this is a good one for lyme testing). The result came back that I tested negative for all IGG Bands, but I was positive for IGM bands 23 and 41. I was negative for IGM band 39. It seems like they only test these three bands for IGM because no others were listed. My doctor but me on 200mg daily Doxy for a month and I didn't feel any better. My new lyme doctor wanted me to get blood work again before seeing him two weeks ago. I got the blood work from the same Quest Diagnostics. This time I once agian was negative for all IGG bands, but I tested positive for IGM band 39 and negative for bands 23 and 41. Does it make any sense that within a month and a half my results changed like this? Is it because I was on the doxy in between blood tests? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Posted by philly78 (Member # 31069) on :
I'm not sure. I will you point you to the following, which was recommended for me to read in helping to understand the western blot.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help! Hopefully someone else may be able to give more details.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Testing for Lyme is not an accurate science, that is for sure. Quest labs does NOT test for all possible bands. So it would be really good if you could get a Western Blot thru Igenex Lab.
It will cost around $200. You really could wait to get that done when you see your new LLMD.
Band 39 is the most specific band of all, aside from the 83-93, which is the DNA of the Bb. And 23 is very specific to Lyme.
Sometimes new bands show up when being tested, but it is somewhat odd that two of your bands "disappeared" .. You have to consider lab tech error as well.
Go to the link provided above and read about the testing. I would suggest printing it out so you can really get a better grasp of it and can save it to read over several times.
Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
Well...positive is positive. I was IgM positive, but IgG negative.
I'd say you have it based on test results (I'm not a doctor mind you.)
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
Positive test is positie. Good logic, right? You're positive for Lyme Disease and since you didn't feel better at the "adequate" treatment, you need much more treatment.
Testing for Lyme is pathetic, a positive is 99% of the time a straight positive, but combine that with symptoms and other historical events of probable Lyme and you have a recipe.
Don't forget to look at co-infections, that's as crucial as Lyme. Since we know you have Lyme, it means you likely got bitten by a tick. Ticks carry much more than Lyme and focusing on Lyme alone can often obscure searching for other issues that may also be involved. Remember though, the tests for those are mostly poor too. Testing for Rocky Mountain, and Erhlicia thru Quest, as well as Mycoplasma P. CMV, EBV, and HPV6 are also wise. These often test positive through Quest if you have the infections though they aren't 100% perfect. Babesia and Bartonella (Or the type that ticks carry) is different than the standard type they test for, so you probably will test negative even if you had those infections.
For now, you have a positive Lyme Disease test, and if you feel sick -- you probably have an active infection, but check these other areas to ensure that logic is reasonable.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Mike and bcb ... IgM is considered positive with only band 23 and 41?
-- or are you counting the 39?
Posted by Beth22 (Member # 30232) on :
My llmd said i was positive and i only had two bands pos and one IND. (IGM) Igenex also called it positive. I thought even one band positive means lyme.
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: Mike and bcb ... IgM is considered positive with only band 23 and 41?
-- or are you counting the 39?
A combination of 23 + 41 on one test and then a a 39 on another may as well be one complete test of 23-41-39, which isn't considered CDC positive but any LLMD worth his/her salt would consider it positive in the context of the persons history. Make sense?
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Beth22:
I thought even one band positive means lyme.
- I agree .. if it's a Lyme specific band. But I didnt think the test above was stated as an overall positive.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by sprechcj: but I was positive for IGM bands 23 and 41.
- This just says positive on those bands, not the IgM itself.
Posted by elkielover80 (Member # 28368) on :
I also recently tested positive through Quest with IGM 23 and 41 bands positive. IGM 39 and all IGG were negative. My llmd told me that she sees the numbers change many times throughout treatment. Once she starts the abx treatment she bases the duration more on clinical sypmtoms than labwork.
From what I've been told it sounds like the numbers could be changing because of the doxy but that doesn't mean much except that you need a longer course of meds/possibly different meds. I'd be curious how your new llmd interprets the info!
Posted by samsy (Member # 6518) on :
I was taught that there are nine Borrelia burgdorferi genus species-specific bands-they are 18,23-25,30,31,34,37,39,83 and 93. If one of those are positive, you need treatment for Lyme.
Posted by nybasketball212 (Member # 28309) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo:
quote:Originally posted by sprechcj: but I was positive for IGM bands 23 and 41.
- This just says positive on those bands, not the IgM itself.
Positive 23 and 41 IgM bands IS CDC IgM positive.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Thanks, nyb! I didn't realize that. You would think that 39 and 41 would also make it a positive, but I don't think it does.
So .. sprech .. You have LYME! (good news, bad news)
Sprech .. do you think you may have had this a long time? The following is from Dr C's Western Blot Explanation:
"With most infections, your immune system first forms IgM antibodies, then in about 2 to 4 weeks, you see IgG antibodies. In some infections, IgG antibodies may be detectable for years.
Because Borrelia burgdorferi is a chronic persistent infection that may last for decades, you would think patients with chronic symptoms would have positive IgG Western blots.
But actually, more IgM blots are positive in chronic borreliosis than IgG. Every time Borrelia burgdorferi reproduces itself, it may stimulate the immune system to form new IgM antibodies.
Some patients have both IgG and IgM blots positive. But if either the IgG or IgM blot is positive, overall it is a positive result.
Response to antibiotics is the same if either is positive, or both. Some antibodies against the borrelia are given more significance if they are IgG versus IgM, or vice versa."
My dr told me of the 3 IgM bands 23,39,41: 2 or more positive of any of the 3 is CDC positive. So a 39, 41 positive would still be a lyme diagnosis
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Cool! I need a list! Posted by sprechcj (Member # 31388) on :
Thanks everyone for the feedback! It's nice to hear confirmation that I have lyme even though I only passed the IGM. I'm 24 now, and I have had fatigue problems since I was an early teenager. However, I didn't have any other symptoms until two years ago when my ears started feeling clogged up and ringing. I also started having bladder issues and had to get up at night to go to the bathroom 5 or 6 times a night. I also started getting unexplained anxiety/restlessness attacks every morning when I woke up. I don't get any joint pain though, and I know that's a major symptom so I've been doubting whether I really have it until now.
Thanks again for the feedback
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
LOTS of people here have NO joint pain. LOTS.
I have Interstitial Cystitis, caused by Lyme. It is much better since treatment.
quote:Originally posted by sprechcj: Thanks everyone for the feedback! It's nice to hear confirmation that I have lyme even though I only passed the IGM. I'm 24 now, and I have had fatigue problems since I was an early teenager. However, I didn't have any other symptoms until two years ago when my ears started feeling clogged up and ringing. I also started having bladder issues and had to get up at night to go to the bathroom 5 or 6 times a night. I also started getting unexplained anxiety/restlessness attacks every morning when I woke up. I don't get any joint pain though, and I know that's a major symptom so I've been doubting whether I really have it until now.
Thanks again for the feedback
Joints pain is not always present. Sometimes it can come early, sometimes late, sometimes not at all. It is only one of many many symptoms. Central Nervous System symptoms are far more common in-fact based on my observation.
Posted by METALLlC BLUE (Member # 6628) on :
quote:Originally posted by METALLlC BLUE:
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: Mike and bcb ... IgM is considered positive with only band 23 and 41?
-- or are you counting the 39?
A combination of 23 + 41 on one test and then a a 39 on another may as well be one complete test of 23-41-39, which isn't considered CDC positive but any LLMD worth his/her salt would consider it positive in the context of the persons history. Make sense?
I want to clarify a point here. When I said this is not a CDC positive, what I mean is that to be considered positive overall with Lyme Disease, the CDC requires that you have 2 bands on the IgM and 5 bands on the IgG at the same time.
Most doctors will consider a positive IgM alone unworthy of consideration if the IgG doesn't also show significant bands. This is "not" acceptable from the position of LLMD's usually.
Most LLMD's consider Igenex methodology more appropriate, which is 2 IgM antibodies showing up and 2 IgG. Even still, this does not define the diagnosis itself.
One antibody alone, if specific for borrelia burgdorferi, should raise eyebrows if the patient has no clear diagnosis and has been tested extensively. In-fact pursuit of Lyme Disease with further investigation should be key, but so should alternative possibilities that may complicate the picture, including co-infections from other tick-borne infections.
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